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(Talking Points Memo)   Former GOP presidential frontrunner Rick Perry blames the separation of church and state on Satan   (tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 291
    More: Asinine, Rick Perry, Satans, GOP, falsehoods, frontrunners  
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7752 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Sep 2012 at 8:14 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-20 08:46:36 PM
Thomas Jefferson is Satan?

People with views like this should not be allowed anywhere near levers of power.


Lost Thought 00: Beware of Apples, Governor. They're the Devil's Food.


No more apple pie? Are mom and baseball next?
 
2012-09-20 08:48:01 PM

yourmomlovestetris: Silly Jesus: Being religious should automatically disqualify one from holding public office.

Oh? And how would you define "religious?" What if someone holds onto a socio-political idoloegy which functions just like a religion but doesn't involve the worship of a god? I know atheists who firmly believe that certains stripes of radical feminism, Marxism and environmentalism to be defacto religions in and of themselves. (Involving something resembling Original Sin [patriarchy, pollution], and the belief that one can attain a heavenly utopia on earth just by observing certain rules and behaviors. And believing that it's right to force people into adopting the way of life THEY believe is best for everybody.) One doesn't have to believe in a god to hold irrational, emotion-based beliefs. Or to be a menace to free people everywhere.


By reading the rest of this post of yours, I suppose.
 
2012-09-20 08:48:08 PM

Hickory-smoked: simplicimus: Hickory-smoked: vernonFL: Does Rick Perry believe in Voodoo dolls, Ouija boards, Tarot Cards, and other nonsense?

Well, why wouldn't he? Those are all real things.

If Catholic, then no. If he belongs to any of those other heretical religions, then probably.

No really, they are actual physical objects. I think I even have a deck in my office somewhere...


I was imprecise. They do exist as physical objects, but have no supernatural powers.
 
2012-09-20 08:48:17 PM

Weaver95: for what its worth, I don't think there IS 'one true god'.


For what its worth, I don't think there is a god.

/nobody farking cares
 
2012-09-20 08:48:55 PM
between this guy and the legit rape guy I really have to ask W.T.F America??

seriously... WHAT THE fark IS GOING ON DOWN THERE????!!!!!
 
2012-09-20 08:49:20 PM
why does Rick Perry hate America? (srsly, wtf? take a history class)
 
2012-09-20 08:52:07 PM

umad: For what its worth, I don't think there is a god.


too much vastness and connection between space and time to ignore an existence beyond this one. IMHO.
 
2012-09-20 08:52:13 PM

my herniated disc: between this guy and the legit rape guy I really have to ask W.T.F America??

seriously... WHAT THE fark IS GOING ON DOWN THERE????!!!!!


As an outside observer all I can conclude is that the republican party is going for the religious, jingoistic, nationalist moron vote this time around, and as it's the US it stands a slim chance of working...
 
2012-09-20 08:52:29 PM
and by the way Rick, if you see your mom this weekend, be sure and tell her
 
2012-09-20 08:52:32 PM

Silly Jesus: Being religious should automatically disqualify one from holding public office.


Rubbish. "Being religious" on its own doesn't mean a thing in regards to a person's character or what could be expected of him or her in office. If someone openly supports a theocracy then yes, I would certainly agree that that person is unsuitable to serve in a secular government but to extend that to anyone with religious beliefs at all is monstrous and absurd.

There are all sorts of religious people, many of whom are perfectly capable of separating their private, personal beliefs from their public duty. I am reminded of an interview that I once read with Geraldine Ferraro in which she was asked why she, as a devout Catholic who personally believes that abortion is morally wrong consistently voted pro-choice.

Her answer was that the district who elected her to office was strongly pro-choice, and it was her job as their representative to vote their interests above her own. It's rather unfortunate that integrity in politics has become so unheard of that any example of it beggars belief, but it can exist and you don't have to be an atheist to have it.

/atheist. not that it should matter to the discussion
 
2012-09-20 08:52:45 PM

impaler: Perry said the separation of religious and civic institutions in the U.S. began with a "narrative" that first took root in the 1960s.

"Somehow or another there's this, ya know, steel wall, this iron curtain or whatever you want to call it between the church and people of faith and this separation of church and state is just false on its face,"

I think someone's history book has a few pages stuck together.


Manifest Destiny gets conservatives really hot and bothered.
 
2012-09-20 08:53:13 PM
Rick Perry says there are three things need to remember. God, guns, and... um.....
 
2012-09-20 08:53:22 PM

Nadie_AZ: Diogenes: The funniest thing about these jerks is that they don't realize (or deliberately choose not to, which is much worse) that the separation clause is there to protect them as much as it is to protect our form of governance. It's a two-way street.

I don't think they believe what they say, for the most part. They simply say something to pander to their base and to score points. The sad part is when their supporters actually believe them and then push for those changes. I'm reminded of A HandMaiden's Tale and the lavish parties they threw, all while forcing everyone to live a rigid conservative lifestyle.


Perry strikes me as a true believer tbh. Usually i agree though.
 
2012-09-20 08:53:38 PM

Weaver95:
for what its worth, I don't think there IS 'one true god'. I think the pagans are closer to figuring it out - there's a bunch of gods and spirits and the spirit world is just as muddied as this world.

also, satan' (or lucifer if you'd prefer) seems to have been more of a job description and less of an actual rebellious angel (although there might have been more than a few of those kicking around).


I've been reading too many political threads. My brain first registered this as "job creator". 
The "Minor God rebelling against Major God(s)" is one of my favorite stories in myths, and as I said in another Satan/Lucifer thread I see most of Christian myths as not-so-subtle rip-offs of Greek (Roman) mythology.

Lucifer is right up there with Prometheus in my book. Hell, he's probably the same guy.
 
2012-09-20 08:53:39 PM

umad: Weaver95: for what its worth, I don't think there IS 'one true god'.

For what its worth, I don't think there is a god.

/nobody farking cares


now THAT is a very weird statement to make. it's clear that the rank and file GOP care very much about religion. sure - YOU might not care about spiritual matters but I think you'd care very much of a bunch of 'true believer' Christian dominionist theocrats managed to get control of the US government. To my way of thinking, it's a mistake to assume that religion isn't important or that 'nobody cares'. Even if it's not important to YOU, it's important to a whole lot of voters...and their votes WILL affect you.
 
2012-09-20 08:54:43 PM

yourmomlovestetris: Silly Jesus: Being religious should automatically disqualify one from holding public office.

Oh? And how would you define "religious?" What if someone holds onto a socio-political idoloegy which functions just like a religion but doesn't involve the worship of a god? I know atheists who firmly believe that certains stripes of radical feminism, Marxism and environmentalism to be defacto religions in and of themselves. (Involving something resembling Original Sin [patriarchy, pollution], and the belief that one can attain a heavenly utopia on earth just by observing certain rules and behaviors. And believing that it's right to force people into adopting the way of life THEY believe is best for everybody.) One doesn't have to believe in a god to hold irrational, emotion-based beliefs. Or to be a menace to free people everywhere.


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/religion

a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

feminism, marxism, and enviornmentalism do not qualify.

You're confusing religious vies with social / political ones. also i'm not sure Christianity or any other religion aims at "a heavenly utopia on earth."
 
2012-09-20 08:54:47 PM

thamike: John Buck 41: Frontrunner?

[imgs.xkcd.com image 500x271]

Early on in the primaries, he was polling the highest. Then he forgot what the third thing was and started speaking in tongues.


Ha ha ha! I forgot the whole "third thing" fiasco! So much has happened!
 
2012-09-20 08:54:52 PM

Gothnet: my herniated disc: between this guy and the legit rape guy I really have to ask W.T.F America??

seriously... WHAT THE fark IS GOING ON DOWN THERE????!!!!!

As an outside observer all I can conclude is that the republican party is going for the religious, jingoistic, nationalist moron vote this time around, and as it's the US it stands a slim chance of working...


This time? We've been doing this for decades. What you are seeing is a nation in its death throws.
 
2012-09-20 08:56:00 PM
So your god isn't the master of his domain? Why do you call him God?
 
2012-09-20 08:56:11 PM

eraser8: I don't think I can put it any better than user "webcelt" in TFC: Sometimes I wonder how the Republicans could pick so lousy a candidate as Romney, and then one of the primary losers speaks up and I figure it out.


That pretty much sums it up.
 
2012-09-20 08:56:28 PM

God-is-a-Taco:
Lucifer is right up there with Prometheus in my book. Hell, he's probably the same guy.


Oh, and I meant that Prometheus was adopted into the Abrahamic religions as Lucifer.
These guys are as real as the Demon Prince Laharl to me.
 
2012-09-20 08:56:52 PM

God-is-a-Taco: Weaver95:
for what its worth, I don't think there IS 'one true god'. I think the pagans are closer to figuring it out - there's a bunch of gods and spirits and the spirit world is just as muddied as this world.

also, satan' (or lucifer if you'd prefer) seems to have been more of a job description and less of an actual rebellious angel (although there might have been more than a few of those kicking around).

I've been reading too many political threads. My brain first registered this as "job creator". 
The "Minor God rebelling against Major God(s)" is one of my favorite stories in myths, and as I said in another Satan/Lucifer thread I see most of Christian myths as not-so-subtle rip-offs of Greek (Roman) mythology.

Lucifer is right up there with Prometheus in my book. Hell, he's probably the same guy.


Well, Lucifer means "Light Bringer".
 
2012-09-20 08:57:14 PM
I _knew_ there was something sketchy about those Founding Fathers.
 
2012-09-20 08:58:39 PM

God-is-a-Taco:
Lucifer is right up there with Prometheus in my book. Hell, he's probably the same guy.


it's interesting that one of the defining myths of Judeo-Christian identity is that 'rebellion against authority' is considered 'evil'.
 
2012-09-20 08:59:59 PM

Don't Troll Me Bro!: So your god isn't the master of his domain? Why do you call him God?


Read the Book of Job. Two guys hanging out, torturing the fark out some guy to settle a bet.
 
2012-09-20 09:01:01 PM

Weaver95: it's interesting that one of the defining myths of Judeo-Christian identity is that 'rebellion against authority' is considered 'evil'.


Over the summer, the local branch of Baptists ran a sign outside their church saying 'you can't stumble if you're on your knees.' I thought it was rather telling.
 
2012-09-20 09:01:05 PM
Excuse me, but I worship the Flying Spaghetti Monster. According to current tax exemption laws, I expect my new Italian Restaurant will be tax-exempt.
 
2012-09-20 09:01:07 PM

alienated: FlashHarry: what an epic moron

At least he is a consistent one...

"We have a biblical responsibility to be involved in the public arena proclaiming God's truth."

And when thou pray, thou shall not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in
the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
But thou, when thou pray, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret...
[Matthew 6:6 & 7]


Not to mention the first person I'm aware of that articulated the concept of separation of church and state was a guy named Jesus of Nazareth
Mark 12:17
""Well, then," Jesus said, "give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar, and give to God what belongs to God." His reply completely amazed them."
 
2012-09-20 09:01:09 PM

simplicimus: Don't Troll Me Bro!: So your god isn't the master of his domain? Why do you call him God?

Read the Book of Job. Two guys hanging out, torturing the fark out some guy to settle a bet.


kind of like Gitmo or your average run through in Sheriff Joe's prison down in Arizona.
 
2012-09-20 09:01:14 PM

Weaver95: God-is-a-Taco:
Lucifer is right up there with Prometheus in my book. Hell, he's probably the same guy.

it's interesting that one of the defining myths of Judeo-Christian identity is that 'rebellion against authority' is considered 'evil'.


Ever read "Beyond Good and Evil"?
 
2012-09-20 09:03:22 PM

EatTheWorld: Religious freedom or lack of one at all is just as much a cornerstone of our nation as is free speech or the 2nd. The bible thumpers are killing republicans.

Rick Perry leaves one to thank god for satan... goddamnit you moron you are not helping.


The worst/best part is that we have MANY perfect examples of what the US would look like if these people got their way and were able to push their religion via the state. The islamic world is a poster child for why a free society must have freedom of and from religion.

You know what might work?? Trying to convince more of these wackjobs to bring the Word of Jesus to the islamic world!!! "Please, they are praying on saturday and dont believe in the trinity!!! it is your duty to save them!!!"
 
2012-09-20 09:03:57 PM

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: Weaver95: it's interesting that one of the defining myths of Judeo-Christian identity is that 'rebellion against authority' is considered 'evil'.

Over the summer, the local branch of Baptists ran a sign outside their church saying 'you can't stumble if you're on your knees.' I thought it was rather telling.


I still trip up over the concept of free will. we're supposed to have free will...but according to most christian sects, we have to be mindlessly obedient to a central religious authority or we won't get into heaven when we die. what's the point of free will then? seems needlessly sadistic.
 
2012-09-20 09:04:11 PM

Weaver95: umad: Weaver95: for what its worth, I don't think there IS 'one true god'.

For what its worth, I don't think there is a god.

/nobody farking cares

now THAT is a very weird statement to make. it's clear that the rank and file GOP care very much about religion. sure - YOU might not care about spiritual matters but I think you'd care very much of a bunch of 'true believer' Christian dominionist theocrats managed to get control of the US government. To my way of thinking, it's a mistake to assume that religion isn't important or that 'nobody cares'. Even if it's not important to YOU, it's important to a whole lot of voters...and their votes WILL affect you.


I'm not an idiot. I know their vote affects me. I just don't care which or how many gods they are basing that vote on. All religions and forms of 'spirituality' is equally retarded. I wish all of you would pull your heads out of your asses.
 
2012-09-20 09:04:54 PM
So the founding fathers are satan.

Satan doesn't exist.

Therefore the founding fathers don't exist?
 
2012-09-20 09:04:54 PM

Blues_X: He needs a dick punch.

straight jacket.

FTFY
 
2012-09-20 09:04:55 PM
*are equally

/proofreading fail
 
2012-09-20 09:04:58 PM
If you could power a flashlight with the energy from from a single bacterium, I suspect the light from that bulb would still be brighter than someone who actually believes this kind of horse poopie.
 
2012-09-20 09:05:29 PM

Weaver95: God-is-a-Taco:
Lucifer is right up there with Prometheus in my book. Hell, he's probably the same guy.

it's interesting that one of the defining myths of Judeo-Christian identity is that 'rebellion against authority' is considered 'evil'.


PLUS, you know that all the cool and fun people get to hand out with Satan for all eternity.
WHY would Satan punish people that are not allowed into heaven? Wouldnt that technically be doing god's work??? Hell, a proper HELL would be non-stop awesomeness. Firefly 24x7. sex, drugs, rock and roll.
and NO bible thumping rtards!!!
 
2012-09-20 09:05:33 PM

Weaver95: God-is-a-Taco: In the bible, God runs things and Satan is nearly powerless
In "reality", Satan runs things and God is nearly powerless.

for what its worth, I don't think there IS 'one true god'. I think the pagans are closer to figuring it out - there's a bunch of gods and spirits and the spirit world is just as muddied as this world.

also, 'satan' (or lucifer if you'd prefer) seems to have been more of a job description and less of an actual rebellious angel (although there might have been more than a few of those kicking around).


That's what Jews believe, that Lucifer is the 'left hand of God', that it's his job to tempt people into sin, and he hates his job. He looks forward to the day that he fails.
 
2012-09-20 09:06:49 PM

GAT_00:


I expected the Church Lady to be the Boobies.
 
2012-09-20 09:07:36 PM

Mugato: Satan really gets a bad rap. Unlike God, there's nothing in the Bible about Satan committing genocide or killing children. All he's really accused of is hiding fossils and giving an apple to a naked chick.

Lumpmoose: Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. - Thomas Jefferson

As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,-as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,-and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries. - Treaty of Tripoli, signed by President John Adams (the first one who co-drafted the Declaration of Independence)


Has anybody else read the Age of Reason by Founding Father Thomas Payne? I'm about halfway through with it now, it is a tour de force of religion bashing. The best part is that if it weren't for Payne's first book, there wouldn't have been a revolution at all and he is probably the most important founding father. That's not even hyperbole.

Anyways, he wrote the aforementioned book that basically just consists of tearing the Bible apart for hundreds of pages. It's highly recommended. He had this whole part on how silly Satan is as an entity. His origin story is that he had a war with God, but none of the people in the battle can be hurt or killed, so God banishes Lucifer to a giant pit (basically just stealing the story of Tartarus from the Greeks).

After that stolen story, it seems the authors decided to make Lucifer then more powerful than God. Lucifer frees himself of his own accord from God's punishment, which seemingly gives him more power than God. After he escapes, he not only exists outside of the pit but seemingly everywhere at once, just like God. The first thing he does is ruin God's creation of man by simple trickery, so God's response is to make a human representation of himself go to Earth and die to make up for it. And if Judas had to sell Jesus out, then it means Jesus was not meaning to die when he did. If Satan had to go to Earth and die as punishment for his crime, it would make a lot more sense than what happened. The whole thing is completely ridiculous and completely contradictory.
 
2012-09-20 09:08:03 PM
Rick Perry is a proud man and you'd be too if you were the man whose IQ score sparked the discovery of a brand new class of numbers -- the imaginary numbers.
 
2012-09-20 09:08:57 PM

Weaver95: Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: Weaver95: it's interesting that one of the defining myths of Judeo-Christian identity is that 'rebellion against authority' is considered 'evil'.

Over the summer, the local branch of Baptists ran a sign outside their church saying 'you can't stumble if you're on your knees.' I thought it was rather telling.

I still trip up over the concept of free will. we're supposed to have free will...but according to most christian sects, we have to be mindlessly obedient to a central religious authority or we won't get into heaven when we die. what's the point of free will then? seems needlessly sadistic.


OK, one last quote from The Devil's Advocate "Free will, it is a biatch." But, as a Catholic, I get to say "sorry" at the end, and all is forgiven.
 
2012-09-20 09:09:09 PM

umad:
I'm not an idiot. I know their vote affects me. I just don't care which or how many gods they are basing that vote on. All religions and forms of 'spirituality' is equally retarded. I wish all of you would pull your heads out of your asses.


I love this attitude. 'all you people are assholes for demanding that I follow your belief system...so i'm going to demand that you follow MY belief system or I'll call you stupid!'

you might want to take a step back and reconsider your worldview. while I certainly don't agree with atheists (I think *something* is out there), I wholeheartedly agree that atheists have a right to exist, hold public office and generally live their lives as they see fit without interference from anyone over their non-beliefs. All most people want is the same sort of consideration in return....and that includes telling snotty atheists to STFU about how superior they are over anyone who believes in a god (or gods).
 
2012-09-20 09:10:07 PM

Gothnet: my herniated disc: between this guy and the legit rape guy I really have to ask W.T.F America??

seriously... WHAT THE fark IS GOING ON DOWN THERE????!!!!!

As an outside observer all I can conclude is that the republican party is going for the religious, jingoistic, nationalist moron vote this time around, and as it's the US it stands a slim chance of working...


Don't forget about the guy (Steve King) who thinks because boxing is allowed that dogfighting is also just peachy.


simplicimus: God-is-a-Taco: Weaver95:
for what its worth, I don't think there IS 'one true god'. I think the pagans are closer to figuring it out - there's a bunch of gods and spirits and the spirit world is just as muddied as this world.

also, satan' (or lucifer if you'd prefer) seems to have been more of a job description and less of an actual rebellious angel (although there might have been more than a few of those kicking around).

I've been reading too many political threads. My brain first registered this as "job creator". 
The "Minor God rebelling against Major God(s)" is one of my favorite stories in myths, and as I said in another Satan/Lucifer thread I see most of Christian myths as not-so-subtle rip-offs of Greek (Roman) mythology.

Lucifer is right up there with Prometheus in my book. Hell, he's probably the same guy.

Well, Lucifer means "Light Bringer".


He's also sometimes called "Morning Star".

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-09-20 09:11:38 PM
When you've been dealing with painful stomach and intestinal cramps for hours on end, there's nothing more refreshing than finally being able to take a giant Rick Perry. It's almost as refreshing as Rick Perrying in a hotel bathroom when everyone's going to be away for awhile so you don't have to be embarrassed about the sounds or the smells.
 
2012-09-20 09:12:18 PM

Weaver95: umad:
I'm not an idiot. I know their vote affects me. I just don't care which or how many gods they are basing that vote on. All religions and forms of 'spirituality' is equally retarded. I wish all of you would pull your heads out of your asses.

I love this attitude. 'all you people are assholes for demanding that I follow your belief system...so i'm going to demand that you follow MY belief system or I'll call you stupid!'


I'm not demanding that you do anything. I'm just not going to kiss your ass and treat you special because you are some kind of hipster when it comes to religion. Anybody that believes in anything without proof is a fool.
 
2012-09-20 09:13:14 PM
as an aside, one of my favorite quotes from the 'Lucifer' comic series was this exchange:


Michael: I'll take you home, if you wish.
Elaine: No, thanks. I'll wait for Lucifer.
Michael: Be wary of him, Elaine. You have a long way to go, and he is not the safest of travelling companions.
Elaine: He saved my life twice. He's the only grown-up I know who keeps his promises.
Michael: Yes. It is a point of pride with him. But please - don't mistake it for a virtue.
 
2012-09-20 09:13:25 PM

meat0918: Perry should also be reminded then that according to his Bible, all earthly authority derives from God.

Therefore, God chose Obama.

//Also, revolt is a sin just like witchcraft, so knock off the secession talk!


Can I use that one?.
 
2012-09-20 09:13:35 PM
This is London Times article questioning why religion hasn't been a bigger issue in election - specifically Mitt Romney's Weird Religion:

Link

after this understand why Freepers call him Myth Romney
 
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