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(CNN)   14 slapped in Fast and Furious, yet Paul Walker gets away without even a kick to the nuts   (cnn.com) divider line 87
    More: Followup, Furious, ATF, contempt of Congress, Pedro the Lion, criminal contempt, deputy assistant, Kenneth Melson, Assistant Attorney General  
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1045 clicks; posted to Politics » on 20 Sep 2012 at 1:43 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-20 11:54:43 AM  
And of course no one is going to jail. So much for justice in the "Justice" Department.
 
2012-09-20 11:57:44 AM  
"I want seven hearings a week, times 40 weeks."

www1.pictures.zimbio.com
 
2012-09-20 12:13:36 PM  
The report found that Holder was not informed of the controversial ATF operation until 2011, after Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry was killed. In a written statement on the findings, Holder said the inspector-general's report upholds "what I, and other Justice Department officials, have said for many months now" -- that the tactics used pre-dated the Obama administration and that Justice Department leaders didn't try to hide the facts from lawmakers.

I'm sure the Daily Caller will run a couple dozen followup stories informing its readers of this development.
 
2012-09-20 12:40:35 PM  
But, but, but this went all the way to the top!
 
2012-09-20 01:46:52 PM  
Yes, this is a blow to butthurt right wingers everywhere.
Bonus: RON PAUL would have never allowed this happen.
 
2012-09-20 01:48:24 PM  
Holder has no idea what's happening in his department.

And that's a good thing.
 
2012-09-20 01:51:34 PM  
Had to google Paul Walker.

+1 subby.

/never saw any of the F&F flicks.
 
2012-09-20 01:53:59 PM  
i.ytimg.com 

Shake harder, boy!
 
2012-09-20 01:56:17 PM  
Hahahaha, they were bringing up impeachment a few months ago. Nice scandal you've got there, Issa.
 
2012-09-20 01:58:12 PM  
This is pretty much the only story on Fox News right now. Nary a peep about Mitt Romney, other than how he's "upset the media elites."

What am I supposed to be outraged about again regarding Fast and Furious? What's the big deal about it, other than Republicans are trying like hell to find a way to pin this to Obama because they're in desperate need of something/anything right now?
 
2012-09-20 01:59:02 PM  
Everytime I hear about this and Wide Receiver I am at a loss. So the plan is to allow guns into Mexico and then stop them when they come back across? Even though tons of drugs, people, and who knows what else cross everyday and they can't stop those?


It's the "Trojan Rabbit" Scene from Holy Grail............Suppose we build a giant badger.
 
2012-09-20 01:59:03 PM  
So basically a bunch of cowboys in a local branch of ATF had something get way out of hand and the Republicans tried to use it to take down the White House. Maybe next time, boys.
 
2012-09-20 02:06:45 PM  
Eric Holder lives live 1/4 crate of AKs at a time.
 
2012-09-20 02:09:04 PM  
 
2012-09-20 02:17:10 PM  
Nixon must be turning over in grave these days.
What these guys get away with these days.
All he had was some masking tape on a door and opposition research papers.
 
2012-09-20 02:18:11 PM  

Cletus C.: Holder has no idea what's happening in his department.

And that's a good thing.


The Department of Justice is a large organization with many agencies, thirty-eight to be exact... Current figures for the Department of Justice show that it employs around 110,000 people and has a budget of $21.1 billion.

Those numbers are from 2006 but I don't think there's reason to think things have changed considerably. Just because the bait store you work at is a small operation where one guy can reasonably be expected to know the goings on of the other employee doesn't mean that an organization as large as the DOJ affords the same level of intimacy.
 
2012-09-20 02:20:13 PM  

Delawheredad: And of course no one is going to jail. So much for justice in the "Justice" Department.


I think they indicted 20 or so straw purchasers.
 
2012-09-20 02:23:10 PM  

CorporatePerson: What am I supposed to be outraged about again regarding Fast and Furious?


Some sloppiness happened in the dangerous field of law enforcement, and people's lives were endangered and some people got killed.
That's certainly something to be upset about, and a balanced review was needed in order to make sure that justice was done.

But then the Right had to politicize it. They had to turn it into a conspiracy that went all the way to the top.
They had to insinuate that it was a criminal conspiracy that intentionally risked lives in order to bring about draconian gun laws.

So thank you, Right-wingers. Your inability to act like decent, sane individuals has once created a situation where
the administration looks like a victim. Your raving idiocy, once again, actually did them a favor and partially shielded them from
real scrutiny. Good job, assholes.
 
2012-09-20 02:35:07 PM  

GhostFish: CorporatePerson: What am I supposed to be outraged about again regarding Fast and Furious?

Some sloppiness happened in the dangerous field of law enforcement, and people's lives were endangered and some people got killed.
That's certainly something to be upset about, and a balanced review was needed in order to make sure that justice was done.

But then the Right had to politicize it. They had to turn it into a conspiracy that went all the way to the top.
They had to insinuate that it was a criminal conspiracy that intentionally risked lives in order to bring about draconian gun laws.

So thank you, Right-wingers. Your inability to act like decent, sane individuals has once created a situation where
the administration looks like a victim. Your raving idiocy, once again, actually did them a favor and partially shielded them from
real scrutiny. Good job, assholes.


Right. They are desperate for some major scandal they can use to turn the election in their favor, and so far, it's just not happened. there is no Iran conta, no 9/11, no watergate. Obama, more or less, has been fairly honest as president.

See also why they tried to turn the Libya ambassadors death into a major thing. They tried to make 4 deaths overseas a worse then then 3,000 deaths on the east cost. they just can't seem to nail him on anything, and it's driving them nuts.
 
2012-09-20 02:43:53 PM  
The biggest conspiracy theory in all of this was that Obama was planting guns in the hands of Mexican drug lords so that a properly outraged America would then be susceptible to allowing the evil Dems to overthrow the second amendment and pry the guns from your cold, dead hands.

Not much evidence of this in the report, from what I can see...
 
2012-09-20 02:53:31 PM  
is this the thread where the liberals state don't care about accountability because their guy is in office?

Or is it the but Bush thread?
 
2012-09-20 02:57:13 PM  

NYCNative: Cletus C.: Holder has no idea what's happening in his department.

And that's a good thing.

The Department of Justice is a large organization with many agencies, thirty-eight to be exact... Current figures for the Department of Justice show that it employs around 110,000 people and has a budget of $21.1 billion.

Those numbers are from 2006 but I don't think there's reason to think things have changed considerably. Just because the bait store you work at is a small operation where one guy can reasonably be expected to know the goings on of the other employee doesn't mean that an organization as large as the DOJ affords the same level of intimacy.


I think F&F was a very significant operation and Holder should have known about it so it's not like Bob at the bait store knows that Jim's daughter just got her braces.

www.nps.gov
/NOT
 
2012-09-20 03:04:34 PM  

badaboom: is this the thread where the liberals state don't care about accountability because their guy is in office?

Or is it the but Bush thread?


No, this is the thread where we laugh at right-wingers who tried to turn a screw-up by someone relatively low on the DoJ ladder into OMG ITS A CONSPIRACY! THE BLAH PRESIDENT WANTS YER GUNS!
 
2012-09-20 03:07:44 PM  

bullwrinkle: I think F&F was a very significant operation

14 people out of 110,000 employees were involved. That is .0036% of his staff. Doing something which predated Holder even being there.

You have mistaken what a significant operation really is, evidently.
 
2012-09-20 03:07:54 PM  

badaboom: is this the thread where the liberals state don't care about accountability because their guy is in office?

Or is it the but Bush thread?


It's the desperate "conservatives" whine thread.

Like every politics thread.
 
2012-09-20 03:10:53 PM  

badaboom: is this the thread where the liberals state don't care about accountability because their guy is in office?

Or is it the but Bush thread?


No, it looks like a thread where you type something really stupid in a language that appears to be English, but isn't.
 
2012-09-20 03:18:48 PM  

badaboom: is this the thread where the liberals state don't care about accountability because their guy is in office?

Or is it the but Bush thread?


I'd borrow a page from your book and say "only history can judge this president," but I don't have to, because unlike Bush and his supporters, Obama isn't hoping there's a statute of limitation on war crimes.
 
2012-09-20 03:19:28 PM  

LordJiro: badaboom: is this the thread where the liberals state don't care about accountability because their guy is in office?

Or is it the but Bush thread?

No, this is the thread where we laugh at right-wingers who tried to turn a screw-up by someone relatively low on the DoJ ladder into OMG ITS A CONSPIRACY! THE BLAH PRESIDENT WANTS YER GUNS!


Oh so it is the thread where liberals don't care about accountability. Thanks for confirming.
 
2012-09-20 03:28:27 PM  

DoBeDoBeDo: Everytime I hear about this and Wide Receiver I am at a loss. So the plan is to allow guns into Mexico and then stop them when they come back across? Even though tons of drugs, people, and who knows what else cross everyday and they can't stop those?


It's the "Trojan Rabbit" Scene from Holy Grail............Suppose we build a giant badger.


No, you've been misinformed. The plan was to get the serial number of guns from local gun shops who's guns were suspected of being bought legally, then resold under the table. The "scandal" was that the local shops were saying, "umm ATF" I probably should stop these guys from buying I think they are reselling. To which the ATF said, ohhh, no go right ahead..
 
2012-09-20 03:28:53 PM  
I was wondering why bdb has the dubious privilege of being on ignore. Now I am reminded.
 
2012-09-20 03:31:46 PM  

badaboom: LordJiro: badaboom: is this the thread where the liberals state don't care about accountability because their guy is in office?

Or is it the but Bush thread?

No, this is the thread where we laugh at right-wingers who tried to turn a screw-up by someone relatively low on the DoJ ladder into OMG ITS A CONSPIRACY! THE BLAH PRESIDENT WANTS YER GUNS!

Oh so it is the thread where liberals don't care about accountability. Thanks for confirming.


Nah, just the same idiots doing their regular Obama circle-jerk routine
 
2012-09-20 03:37:14 PM  
It's a good thing that no one on the left ever called for the Attorney General to step down for not knowing what was going on in his Leviathan department. It would have set a dangerous precedent that might lead to calls for Holder's resignation.
 
2012-09-20 03:52:07 PM  
This thread has been up for about two hours now and only has 32 comments. The silence is the sound of all the right wingers realizing that F&F is a blank.
 
2012-09-20 03:55:08 PM  

NYCNative: This thread has been up for about two hours now and only has 32 comments. The silence is the sound of all the right wingers realizing that F&F is a blank.


Just wait. The usual suspects will come in and turn this into a Freeper type conspiracy about how this is a coverup by Obama and grace us with gratuitous referances to the New Black Panther Party.
 
2012-09-20 03:55:44 PM  

badaboom: LordJiro: badaboom: is this the thread where the liberals state don't care about accountability because their guy is in office?

Or is it the but Bush thread?

No, this is the thread where we laugh at right-wingers who tried to turn a screw-up by someone relatively low on the DoJ ladder into OMG ITS A CONSPIRACY! THE BLAH PRESIDENT WANTS YER GUNS!

Oh so it is the thread where liberals don't care about accountability. Thanks for confirming.

FTMFA:

More than a dozen Justice Department and Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives officials faced punishment Wednesday after a long-awaited report on the botched gun probe known as "Operation Fast and Furious."

Within minutes of the report's release, Justice announced that former acting ATF chief Kenneth Melson was retiring and another official, Deputy Assistant Attorney General Jason Weinstein, had resigned.

The report referred them and another 12 officials in Washington and the ATF and U.S. attorney's offices in Phoenix to Justice officials to determine "whether discipline or other administrative action" was required.


So immediately after the report was issued, two people involved left the agency and 12 more are still open to discipline.

So yea, no accountability here. Whatsoever.
 
2012-09-20 04:00:24 PM  

NYCNative: bullwrinkle: I think F&F was a very significant operation14 people out of 110,000 employees were involved. That is .0036% of his staff. Doing something which predated Holder even being there.

You have mistaken what a significant operation really is, evidently.


Over 2,000 guns walked over the border from 2008 to 2011. I'd call that significant.

Was Watergate insignificant because only a relative handful of people were actually involved?
 
2012-09-20 04:24:09 PM  

whidbey: I was wondering why bdb has the dubious privilege of being on ignore. Now I am reminded.

 

crockettlives.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-09-20 04:25:36 PM  

badaboom: is this the thread where the liberals state don't care about accountability because their guy is in office?

Or is it the but Bush thread?


I think you need to look up the word "accountability": the responsible parties are being charged. Or are you mad that your witch hunt found neither Obama nor Holder did anything wrong?
 
2012-09-20 04:26:51 PM  

NYCNative: Cletus C.: Holder has no idea what's happening in his department.

And that's a good thing.

The Department of Justice is a large organization with many agencies, thirty-eight to be exact... Current figures for the Department of Justice show that it employs around 110,000 people and has a budget of $21.1 billion.

Those numbers are from 2006 but I don't think there's reason to think things have changed considerably. Just because the bait store you work at is a small operation where one guy can reasonably be expected to know the goings on of the other employee doesn't mean that an organization as large as the DOJ affords the same level of intimacy.


Oh, I was led to believe the president, who I imagine has far more employees than that, was supposed to know prisoners were being naked-pyramided in an Iraqi prison. I guess that's different.
 
2012-09-20 04:30:36 PM  

udhq: badaboom: is this the thread where the liberals state don't care about accountability because their guy is in office?

Or is it the but Bush thread?

I think you need to look up the word "accountability": the responsible parties are being charged. Or are you mad that your witch hunt found neither Obama nor Holder did anything wrong?


u18chan.com
 
2012-09-20 04:30:38 PM  

dittybopper: Over 2,000 guns walked over the border from 2008 to 2011. I'd call that significant.


Go ahead and call it potato, nobody cares.
 
2012-09-20 05:06:58 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: For those who can read.


I'm a bleeding heart liberal who believes in strong gun control laws and even I have a hard time taking that article at face value.
 
2012-09-20 05:11:29 PM  
Nobody disputes that suspected straw purchasers under surveillance by the ATF repeatedly bought guns that eventually fell into criminal hands. Issa and others charge that the ATF intentionally allowed guns to walk as an operational tactic. But five law-enforcement agents directly involved in Fast and Furious tell Fortune that the ATF had no such tactic. They insist they never purposefully allowed guns to be illegally trafficked. Just the opposite: They say they seized weapons whenever they could but were hamstrung by prosecutors and weak laws, which stymied them at every turn.
 
2012-09-20 05:12:37 PM  

dittybopper: NYCNative: bullwrinkle: I think F&F was a very significant operation14 people out of 110,000 employees were involved. That is .0036% of his staff. Doing something which predated Holder even being there.

You have mistaken what a significant operation really is, evidently.

Over 2,000 guns walked over the border from 2008 to 2011. I'd call that significant.


Why? I thought guns were good and weren't these at the end of the day still 100% completely legal purchases? The NRA already is making up conspiracy theories as to Obama taking away your guns... How would they and other gun nuts reacted had the DOJ actually taken away legally purchased firearms?

Was Watergate insignificant because only a relative handful of people were actually involved?

There was evidence that one of the Watergate conspirators was Nixon himself. You can't even get things to stick on Holder with this one, let alone Obama.
 
2012-09-20 05:12:59 PM  
Every right-winger whining about a lack of accountability in this thread has proven themselves monumentally stupid.

Here's an idea, dumbfarks: open a new tab, go to Forbes.com, look up the expose on this story titled "The truth about the Fast and Furious scandal", try your best to read all the words in that article, and then think really long and hard about why your ideology fails at life and your brains aren't even worth donating to science.

Even better, here's a farking link: Link

Every time I think "there can't be any dumbfarks left who believe this crap", an asshat conservative shill does his part to prove me wrong.
 
2012-09-20 05:15:04 PM  

featurecreep: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: For those who can read.

I'm a bleeding heart liberal who believes in strong gun control laws and even I have a hard time taking that article at face value.


Your concern is noted.
 
2012-09-20 05:16:59 PM  
This bears repeating: The guns were legally purchased. Every single one of them.

How would the Derp Squad and the gun nuts at the NRA (who already are making up conspiracy theories about how Obama is going to take away your guns with the evidence being that he hasn't taken away your guns... yet...) react had the DOJ gone in and started confiscating legally-purchased firearms and/or arresting people who made legal purchases of firearms?

The logical rationale here would be to address the laws that allowed it to happen. Of course, that sets off the gnashing of teeth from those same people who scream about how the second amendment guarantees the right to allow assault rifles and tens of thousands of rounds of ammo for all good citizens.
 
2012-09-20 05:21:04 PM  

un4gvn666: go to Forbes.com, look up the expose on this story titled "The truth about the Fast and Furious scandal"


It's actually that other liberal rag, Fortune.
 
2012-09-20 05:22:37 PM  
So, I have an honest question that I'm hoping someone more knowledgeable could help me out with.

A while ago I read an article very sympathetic to those accused in the Fast and Furious scandal, basically saying that they weren't deliberately letting guns walk and instead it was the state DAs (and the loose state gun laws) who weren't allowing them to go after these people, forcing the ATF to just try to track them as they couldn't do anything more. IIRC it alleged that the only actual gun walking was from a rogue ATF agent who didn't want to play by the rules and then later was the whistleblower in a fit of complete hypocrisy.

Basically my question is: is this known to be bullshiat, or known to be true, or something in the middle? It sounded like they had evidence and it was mostly that the media and Republicans wanted something to scream about rather than looking carefully to find the truth. I know myself well enough to know that I want to believe this because of my own biases, and I'm hoping someone else who knows more about the situation can confirm/deny it. I wish I could find the article - it doesn't seem like any of the coverage now is mentioning this, but then most of it seems pretty shallow and focused on consequences anyway, rather than a description of what actually happened.
 
2012-09-20 05:25:49 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Nobody disputes that suspected straw purchasers under surveillance by the ATF repeatedly bought guns that eventually fell into criminal hands. Issa and others charge that the ATF intentionally allowed guns to walk as an operational tactic. But five law-enforcement agents directly involved in Fast and Furious tell Fortune that the ATF had no such tactic. They insist they never purposefully allowed guns to be illegally trafficked. Just the opposite: They say they seized weapons whenever they could but were hamstrung by prosecutors and weak laws, which stymied them at every turn.


Ah Nina Hartley's Ass, you keep on giving. This is exactly what I was talking about. Anyone know if this has been disproved? If not, why isn't the administration making this case? Too complicated a message to get out to the public?
 
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