If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(AZ Family)   Would you call a five by six room with padded walls and no windows a cell or a cool-down room? Your answer may determine if you're a school administrator or a parent (w/video)   (azfamily.com) divider line 48
    More: Interesting, elementary schools, 3TV, School Administrators, food allergies, unified school district, Deer Valley  
•       •       •

4248 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Sep 2012 at 6:28 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



48 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread
 
2012-09-20 06:35:32 AM
keep your special needs freak at home lady. the other kids are trying to learn.
 
2012-09-20 06:37:25 AM
It may be perfectly legal in Arizona but it is ILLEGAL in the United States.
Even in the youth prison we had to stand at the door and listen to them, watch them and when they claimed to need a crap take them - kicking screaming biting and spitting - to the toilet.
Solitary confinement has a toilet and a sink. If the person in charge of the room stopped looking at the camera (or there is no camera) the school district and super are charged with a felony.
 
2012-09-20 06:41:23 AM
I have no problem with the idea of a cool down room. And 5 x 6 seems about a good size. Nor do I have a problem with there being no windows. I kid can break a window. The problem that I have, and I have a serious problem with it, is that they did not let the kid go to the bathroom.
 
2012-09-20 06:42:53 AM
Also, ""He will become fidgety, he can't stand still," said Noyes. " Really? Is that a symptom of a serious food allergy? I am serious. I do not know. Can anyone confirm this? Or is mom more than likely making shiat up that cannot be conclusively proven or disproven?
 
2012-09-20 06:45:28 AM
www.threadbombing.com
 
2012-09-20 06:46:34 AM
Sounds to me like jail. With no bathroom.

And very illegal.

Goddamn Arizona is catching up with Florida.
 
2012-09-20 06:54:48 AM

jmr61: Sounds to me like jail. With no bathroom.

And very illegal.

Goddamn Arizona is catching up with Florida.


Relax. It's just part of a PR campaign.

There's a billboard at the Arizona border featuring this cell, reading:

THIS IS HOW WE TREAT THE WEAKEST OF OUR OWN CHILDREN.
IMAGINE HOW WE WILL TREAT YOU.
TURN BACK NOW IF YOU VALUE YOUR SANITY.
IA! IA! SHERIFF JOE FTHAGN!

/well there should be
 
2012-09-20 06:56:55 AM

Mock26: Also, ""He will become fidgety, he can't stand still," said Noyes. " Really? Is that a symptom of a serious food allergy? I am serious. I do not know. Can anyone confirm this? Or is mom more than likely making shiat up that cannot be conclusively proven or disproven?


Well, allergies are pretty easy to prove or disprove. There's an actual definition and all. I don't know for sure, but fidgety could reasonably be a symptom, though not of a really serious allergy, which would just send you into anaphylaxis.
 
2012-09-20 06:57:01 AM

jmr61: Sounds to me like jail. With no bathroom.

And very illegal.

Goddamn Arizona is catching up with Florida.


If you were putting a violent/hyper/whatever kid into a room to cool down why would you put him in a room with a toilet and/or sink that he could hurt himself on/with?
 
2012-09-20 06:57:59 AM

Mock26: Also, ""He will become fidgety, he can't stand still," said Noyes. " Really? Is that a symptom of a serious food allergy? I am serious. I do not know. Can anyone confirm this? Or is mom more than likely making shiat up that cannot be conclusively proven or disproven?


My wife's friend has an autistic child that is normally pretty docile unless he eats food containing gluten; then he turns into a monster.
 
2012-09-20 06:59:04 AM
Reminds me of my time in Indiana, in middle/high school. I was the "gay" kid in a small Midwest town, and the school district convinced my parents that, for my own protection, I be put in Special Ed. One quick drummed up ADD diagnosis later, and I was put in a box. Quite literally, it was a big refrigerator box, with the top cut off to let in light, and a "door" cut to let me get in and out. One desk inside. In the S.E. room. It was supposed to help me "concentrate without distractions".

Name a sci-fi or fantasy author, I likely read one of their books during my time in "the box". Had to work out a deal with the local library to check out more than 5 books at a time. Five books was...two days for me.

Yeah, school was awesome.
 
2012-09-20 07:03:15 AM
I'd call it a home studio. I've been in mixing/recording/edit bays at a radio station that were smaller or similar size.
 
2012-09-20 07:10:52 AM
Sounds like Sheriff Joe has moved into education.
 
2012-09-20 07:11:38 AM
The kid would have been allowed out if it would have put the lotion on it's skin.
 
2012-09-20 07:11:48 AM

Mock26: jmr61: Sounds to me like jail. With no bathroom.

And very illegal.

Goddamn Arizona is catching up with Florida.

If you were putting a violent/hyper/whatever kid into a room to cool down why would you put him in a room with a toilet and/or sink that he could hurt himself on/with?



You don't have to put one in there, but you do have to take the kid to the bathroom if he says he has to go, which is more than Arizona's capable of, apparently.
 
2012-09-20 07:13:47 AM
Does the room come with its own restraint chair? The kids meltdowns must have been massive.
 
2012-09-20 07:14:14 AM

Monkeyfark Ridiculous: jmr61: Sounds to me like jail. With no bathroom.

And very illegal.

Goddamn Arizona is catching up with Florida.

Relax. It's just part of a PR campaign.

There's a billboard at the Arizona border featuring this cell, reading:

THIS IS HOW WE TREAT THE WEAKEST OF OUR OWN CHILDREN.
IMAGINE HOW WE WILL TREAT YOU.
TURN BACK NOW IF YOU VALUE YOUR SANITY.
IA! IA! SHERIFF JOE FTHAGN!

/well there should be


Sheriff Joe lies asleep?
 
2012-09-20 07:20:44 AM

GentlemanJ: Monkeyfark Ridiculous: jmr61: Sounds to me like jail. With no bathroom.

And very illegal.

Goddamn Arizona is catching up with Florida.

Relax. It's just part of a PR campaign.

There's a billboard at the Arizona border featuring this cell, reading:

THIS IS HOW WE TREAT THE WEAKEST OF OUR OWN CHILDREN.
IMAGINE HOW WE WILL TREAT YOU.
TURN BACK NOW IF YOU VALUE YOUR SANITY.
IA! IA! SHERIFF JOE FTHAGN!

/well there should be

Sheriff Joe lies asleep?


In his house at Phoenix he waits dreaming.
 
2012-09-20 07:22:37 AM
Would you call a five by six room with padded walls and no windows . . .

Peace and quiet for the rest of us? But seriously, if your kid is so out of control that THIS is what is necessary to contain him then maybe the real problem isn't the cell.
 
2012-09-20 07:25:18 AM
the only thing districts understand is a lawsuit,"

This is true, unfortunately.

Also, longer than an hour? Then it's a cell. A typical kid* will be able to calm down long before that. If for no other reason than tantrums are exhausting. More than an hour is punishment, not calm-down time.

*does not apply to the mentally ill who can rage for amazing amounts of time
 
2012-09-20 07:25:52 AM

NutWrench: Would you call a five by six room with padded walls and no windows . . .

Peace and quiet for the rest of us? But seriously, if your kid is so out of control that THIS is what is necessary to contain him then maybe the real problem isn't the cell.


Then again, they didn't exactly build the room for him. What are the chances teachers and administrators figure, "Hey, little Jimmy's being a bit of a brat... Hey, we have this time-out room we're allowed to use! Let's just put him in there instead of dealing with the situation in a rational manner."
 
2012-09-20 07:26:04 AM
Sounds like what we use at the school for the mentally handicapped where I work. It's a room we use for when they need to "take space", though legally we have to let them out if they say they need to use the toilet.
 
2012-09-20 07:26:40 AM

namegoeshere: Also, longer than an hour? Then it's a cell. A typical kid* will be able to calm down long before that. If for no other reason than tantrums are exhausting. More than an hour is punishment, not calm-down time.


Also, this. Even at psychiatric hospitals, patients aren't generally sent to isolation for longer than a couple minutes at a time.
 
2012-09-20 07:36:48 AM

jmr61: Goddamn Arizona is catching up with Florida.


I dunno, man...seems to me that Arizona is looking at Florida through its rear-view mirror.
 
2012-09-20 07:39:23 AM

Mock26: The problem that I have, and I have a serious problem with it, is that they did not let the kid go to the bathroom.


Bingo.

Also, I donno about seclusion *rooms*, but when I was going to school there (5th - 7th grade), they definitely put you in seclusion if you were being a snot-nosed trouble-maker.

Not....not that I'd know this personally, mind you.

....


*cough*
 
2012-09-20 08:38:57 AM
I read through TFA twice, I couldn't find where they said how long the kid was in there?
 
2012-09-20 08:39:09 AM
When I was in fifth and sixth grades, before people knew that I had Asperger's (doctor diagnosed, not internet, shut up, not here to debate whether I have it) I was so out of control at times that they bused me across town three days a week to a different school for emotional conflict class. EC classroom had a room exactly like that. I made damn sure I never had to get put in there, but I saw other kids go in until they calmed down.

/spent EC class doing my schoolwork for maybe half am hour, then got to play on the computer for the test of the day. Emotional conflict class rocked.
 
2012-09-20 08:49:35 AM

starsrift: I read through TFA twice, I couldn't find where they said how long the kid was in there?


It doesn't say for this kid, although he was in there long enough to piss his pants.

It does say: If seclusion is necessary, parents and administrators must be notified within the same school day and a written notice that includes the circumstances that preceded the behavior, the behavior, the length of time the student was secluded, the location of the seclusion and the person who observed the student during the seclusion must follow. When a student has been in seclusion for longer than one hour, parent contact must be initiated immediately.

To which I say, fark that. There is no kid who should be in that room longer than an hour who isn't in a mental health facility.

You might make the argument that since they called her immediately and didn't just send a written note home, that he was there longer than an hour. But that's not proof exactly since they didn't follow their seclusion policy in any other way so who knows?
 
2012-09-20 08:49:56 AM
Whats the alternative? What do you do when the 10 year old, third grade, emotionally disturbed/cognitively disabled kid whos bigger than his teacher decides hes been slighted somehow and starts thrashing around like in sleep lacks gif up there and throwing desks? Do you just get the other kids out of the classroom and let him trash the place? Or do you get a few teachers aides to drag him literally kicking and screaming and spitting and biting and pissing into a nice padded room where he cant hurt himself or others?

My mom is a spec ed teacher... her school does not have a freak out room, the teachers arent allowed to restrain students themselves in most cases, not that they always could. They have to call the school security aide (not a resource officer, very few elementary schools have those); if they cant handle it, they have to call the districts "response team" to subdue the kid; and if the response team is unable to handle it, then they call the cops to have the kid removed. She teaches at a gifted and talented elementary school, but by law they have to have the same % of special ed kids as anywhere else. School just started last month and theyve already had to call the response team and the cops this semester.
 
2012-09-20 09:02:15 AM

Cyno01: Whats the alternative?


How about following this policy:
If seclusion is necessary, parents and administrators must be notified within the same school day and a written notice that includes the circumstances that preceded the behavior, the behavior, the length of time the student was secluded, the location of the seclusion and the person who observed the student during the seclusion must follow. When a student has been in seclusion for longer than one hour, parent contact must be initiated immediately.

That would be a start. Making sure that where the form asks who was observing the student the answer is not "no one" would be a good next step.
 
2012-09-20 09:14:31 AM

OhioUGrad: I'd call it a home studio. I've been in mixing/recording/edit bays at a radio station that were smaller or similar size.


------------------------------------------------
Funny you should mention this...I am at a radio station right now. What they described sounds just like our studio B, Production studio, studio E and Studio F.
 
2012-09-20 09:19:05 AM

OhioUGrad: I'd call it a home studio. I've been in mixing/recording/edit bays at a radio station that were smaller or similar size.


Were you forced to stay in there for an extended period of time without being allowed to use the bathroom?
 
2012-09-20 09:22:31 AM

Cyno01: Whats the alternative? What do you do when the 10 year old, third grade, emotionally disturbed/cognitively disabled kid whos bigger than his teacher


Sounds like the child's parents haven't yet found it necessary to discipline him by locking him in a closet until he pisses himself, so maybe the school should ask them for some ideas about alternatives.

/incidentally, the kid in TFA was a seven-year-old, not a third grader
//probably not a giant either
 
2012-09-20 09:35:39 AM
Most people here call it a cubicle.

/Love my office with its window, fridge, TV, DVD, microwave, and satellite radio.
 
2012-09-20 09:50:06 AM
It's a dungeon. Kid's gonna grow up kinky.
 
2012-09-20 10:01:32 AM
<b><a href="http://www.fark.com/comments/7337277/79500097#c79500097" target="_blank">Monkeyfark Ridiculous</a>:</b> <i>Cyno01: Whats the alternative? What do you do when the 10 year old, third grade, emotionally disturbed/cognitively disabled kid whos bigger than his teacher

Sounds like the child's parents haven't yet found it necessary to discipline him by locking him in a closet until he pisses himself, so maybe the school should ask them for some ideas about alternatives.

/incidentally, the kid in TFA was a seven-year-old, not a third grader
//probably not a giant either</i>

Maybe the parents should put their special-needs child in alternative schooling so the other 20+ students in the room don't have their education disrupted whenever this child decides to act up.

Seriously--this is why mainstreaming is such a f******g joke.

It's perfectly acceptable to take time away from the education of the other children so the teacher can spend all of their time and focus on something they're not trained to handle and shouldn't have to deal with.

A kid being unruly is one thing, but if the district felt the need to put the child in a time out room, and this isn't the first time it's happened (as alluded to in the article), then the parents need to realize their snowflake needs something that a normal, structured classroom can't provide.

And asking parents for alternatives? The very first time this became an issue, the parents should have volunteered this information--if they know they have a special-needs child, the onus is on the parents to be forthcoming with these ideas ahead of time; the teacher has 20+ other children to think of, for f**ksake; they don't have the time to stop down for your child.
 
2012-09-20 10:06:40 AM

FUNWITHSHARPS: OhioUGrad: I'd call it a home studio. I've been in mixing/recording/edit bays at a radio station that were smaller or similar size.

------------------------------------------------
Funny you should mention this...I am at a radio station right now. What they described sounds just like our studio B, Production studio, studio E and Studio F.


Except the part where you can open the door and go use the bathroom.
 
2012-09-20 10:08:45 AM

matthew_m_g: Maybe the parents should put their special-needs child in alternative schooling so the other 20+ students in the room don't have their education disrupted whenever this child decides to act up.

Seriously--this is why mainstreaming is such a f******g joke.


Where exactly does it say he is special needs?
 
2012-09-20 11:17:25 AM
I work for a school district and know for a fact every one of our schools has at least one of these time out rooms. Most are set up in the rooms where the problem children are separated from the rest of the classes.
The rooms are empty with padded walls, a vent and a light with a dimmer switch on the outside of the room. The door cannot be locked, so if the kid starts raging, the teachers have to hold the door shut until the kid settles down.
Many of them scream they have to go to the bathroom as a way to get out, and they will let the kid out to go, but as soon as the kid is done they go right back in.
 
2012-09-20 11:17:28 AM

GranoblasticMan: Also, this. Even at psychiatric hospitals, patients aren't generally sent to isolation for longer than a couple minutes at a time.


Not from what I've known... BCRs (Behavior Control Room), you're there until you calm down... for some that is not just "a couple of minutes". I've heard people ranting and raving for hours.

Sounds like this kid is special needs, and most likely the school has quite a few of them. If they've got a written policy about the room, then obviously they have to use it. The problem here would be that they didn't let him out when he needed a rest room. However, it's most likely this special snowflake that "gets a little fidgety" was quite violent still and they're damned if they do, and damned if they don't.

It's not like they put him in a straight jacket.
 
TWX
2012-09-20 11:22:13 AM

prjindigo: It may be perfectly legal in Arizona but it is ILLEGAL in the United States.
Even in the youth prison we had to stand at the door and listen to them, watch them and when they claimed to need a crap take them - kicking screaming biting and spitting - to the toilet.
Solitary confinement has a toilet and a sink. If the person in charge of the room stopped looking at the camera (or there is no camera) the school district and super are charged with a felony.


You don't know anything about how these seclusion rooms are constructed, do you?

First, they're generally only present in special education classrooms or detention or in-school-suspension classrooms. Second, they're similar to a cubicle, in that the walls do not go all of the way to the ceiling, and sometimes do not even reach 6'. Third, the classroom's lighting shines as brightly in the structure as it does in the classroom. Fourth, the walls and floor are padded something like 6" thick, so a kid that is literally thrashing about can't injure himself or herself very easily. Fifth, a staff member is required to be present any time one of these is used.

In this case, it's well possible that the staff member was negligent in some fashion while the student was inside, but I find it exceedingly unlikely that the unit wasn't built to these specs or was otherwise out-of-compliance. As staff are not under obligation to release a student for a bathroom break at the student's discretion, and doubly-so when the student is being a danger to themselves and to others, I do not see any better option for initially dealing with the problem than placing the student into the cool-down room. Certainly it's possible that aspects of parental notification were not followed per guidelines, and if so, they might find themselves punished for that, but I doubt that they'll be punished for the use of the cool-down room in of itself, nor will they be punished for the student wetting himself.

As to the use of such at all, schools receive some of the rights of a legal guardian while students are present. I would expect that monitored seclusion is well within those rights, especially for a student that is being disruptive.

As to the "food allergy" argument, the parents better have proof that there was a known food allergy before the incident occurred, ie, from a doctor, otherwise I'd expect that argument won't hold. School nurses and teachers are normally informed of all known ailments of the students so that they can be treated if necessary, and an undocumented ailment would partially excuse the school's behavior as well.
 
2012-09-20 11:47:42 AM

matthew_m_g: <b><a href="http://www.fark.com/comments/7337277/79500097#c79500097" target="_blank">Monkeyfark Ridiculous</a>:</b> <i>

A kid being unruly is one thing, but if the district felt the need to put the child in a time out room, and this isn't the first time it's happened (as alluded to in the article), then the parents need to realize their snowflake needs something that a normal, structured classroom can't provide.


"A kid being unruly" is all the parents were informed of, according to the article. The school feeling the "need" to put the kid in the box isn't something they knew about, so it is hard to see how they were supposed to act on it.

The article says a seven-year-old boy was fidgety and acting up. This hardly seems like behavior Beyond The Ken Of Mortal Teachers. Amazing as it may seem, many schools somehow get by without building isolation cells for small children.

Really, the administration sounds a lot more "special-needs" than the kid does.

/what we have here is a failure to communicate
 
2012-09-20 11:59:51 AM
Apparently the cuplrit of his allergies is sugar. Copy of lawsuit.
 
2012-09-20 11:59:53 AM
According to the vid, he was there for several hours. Although that is from mom, so grain of salt and all. Also, the walls and door are fully padded. How exactly are they observing the child inside?
 
2012-09-20 12:20:00 PM

Mock26: Also, ""He will become fidgety, he can't stand still," said Noyes. " Really? Is that a symptom of a serious food allergy? I am serious. I do not know. Can anyone confirm this? Or is mom more than likely making shiat up that cannot be conclusively proven or disproven?


It's a symptom of needing to go to the bathroom, apparently.
 
2012-09-20 01:31:04 PM
If a kid needs a padded cell, they shouldn't be in a mainstream school.

If a mainstream school has ordinary kids, they shouldn't have a padded cell anywhere on their property.

Simple. Someone ought to be fired.
 
2012-09-20 05:08:37 PM
All I know is, that school district had better be praying to Dread Sheriff Joe thanking him that that wasn't my kid.

Heads would have rolled. And then placed on pikes.
 
2012-09-21 04:09:15 AM

Spaced Lion: All I know is, that school district had better be praying to Dread Sheriff Joe thanking him that that wasn't my kid.

Heads would have rolled. And then placed on pikes.


Look out folks, we have ourselves a badass here!

img.photobucket.com
 
Displayed 48 of 48 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report