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(Popular Science)   There is no such thing as time, says physicist... HEYYY, TACOS   (popsci.com) divider line 64
    More: Interesting, string theory, quantum gravity, integers, quantum physics, physicists, cosmology, tacos, gamma-ray bursts  
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4657 clicks; posted to Geek » on 20 Sep 2012 at 1:54 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-19 10:42:29 PM
I'll be in my TARDIS.
 
2012-09-19 11:35:06 PM
I imagine physicist have access to the best recreational drugs.
 
2012-09-20 12:02:59 AM
Tell that to my body.
 
2012-09-20 12:11:44 AM
Arranging the pages in some special order and moving through them in a step-by-step fashion makes a story unfold. Still, no matter how we arrange the sheets, each page is complete and independent.

Sure. And when you watch a motion picture (a series of stills), each frame has nothing to do with the previous frame.
 
2012-09-20 12:14:20 AM
Leave it to a physicist to make even the illusory nature of time sound boring.

Nows. Platonia. Ugh. It's painful.
 
2012-09-20 12:14:54 AM
Especially on a slow afternoon at the office
 
2012-09-20 02:00:29 AM
Time is just an illusion. Lunchtime, doubly so.
 
2012-09-20 02:02:33 AM
i172.photobucket.com
 
2012-09-20 02:17:32 AM
FTFA: Channeling the ghost of Parmenides, Barbour sees each individual moment as a whole, complete and existing in its own right. He calls these moments "Nows."

Do you ever get the impression that eggheads sometimes just enjoy f*cking with us?
 
2012-09-20 02:19:40 AM
BTW... Don't let employers know about this concept. If time doesn't really exist, then that would invalidate the concept of being paid for time worked. Jeebus, things are already screwed up enough without having to deal with something like that!
 
2012-09-20 02:19:54 AM
Then what did I waste reading that bs?
 
2012-09-20 02:38:01 AM
And THAT is how you get people to read about your idiocy.
 
2012-09-20 02:46:32 AM

Fark Me To Tears: BTW... Don't let employers know about this concept. If time doesn't really exist, then that would invalidate the concept of being paid for time worked. Jeebus, things are already screwed up enough without having to deal with something like that!


Or they could just pay you all up front.
 
2012-09-20 02:48:26 AM

Lucky LaRue: I imagine physicist have access to the best recreational drugs.


fringepedia.net
 
2012-09-20 03:05:30 AM
Velocity = Distance / OH GOD I JUST DIVIDED BY ZE-
 
2012-09-20 03:15:42 AM
everything happens at once

time is the illusion

and in the way
the gift,


/login psychedelia
 
2012-09-20 03:18:06 AM
checked out some 5-MeO-DMT tonight
so i THINK i know a little about cosmology and time


thank you very much

heh
 
2012-09-20 03:49:15 AM
Happy now!
 
2012-09-20 04:22:42 AM
So this means we all live forever, right?
 
2012-09-20 05:14:26 AM
He had to write the book, because whenever he tried to explain his theories to somebody in person, they would slowly back away to a safe distance, then turn and run for their lives.
 
2012-09-20 06:00:35 AM
I'm not buying it. Show me the equation.

calculusftw.com
 
2012-09-20 06:27:44 AM
bullshiat

They've proven time is a Dimension...an essential aspect of what we live within.

They've proven that as with space, it is warped by Mass in Relativitistic affects,
time slowing it down as it increases...
proven 10,000 TIMES more accurate than ever, almost 100 years after Einstein.

If anything, they need to expand the concept...not remove it.

/and as with Xeno's paradox...this guy isn't going anywhere fast with this idea
 
2012-09-20 07:11:06 AM

Fark Me To Tears: FTFA: Channeling the ghost of Parmenides, Barbour sees each individual moment as a whole, complete and existing in its own right. He calls these moments "Nows."

Do you ever get the impression that eggheads sometimes just enjoy f*cking with us?


oddly enough Barbour's "Nows" concept is near identical to pop music group Hanson's explanation of their hit "MMMBop".
 
2012-09-20 07:14:03 AM

rogue49: bullshiat

They've proven time is a Dimension...an essential aspect of what we live within.

They've proven that as with space, it is warped by Mass in Relativitistic affects,
time slowing it down as it increases...
proven 10,000 TIMES more accurate than ever, almost 100 years after Einstein.

If anything, they need to expand the concept...not remove it.

/and as with Xeno's paradox...this guy isn't going anywhere fast with this idea


This is like a computer denying the existence of overclocking because its programs still take the same number of clock cycles to complete...
 
2012-09-20 07:16:11 AM
First off, time is just part of an address system. Relative to any event in spacetime, it takes four units of information to uniquely identify any other address in spacetime. There are many possible coordinate systems for describing this, but they all require 4 unique pieces of information.

The other issue with this guy's idea is this sense of the universe as a state-machine- it's an interesting way to understand the laws of physics, but it is wrong. "Nows" do not exist, or more accurately, each point in space in our physical universe has its own unique "Now'. A traveler on a relativistic spacecraft and a person on Earth can record the universe and when they compare notes, they're both going to see something very different. The stay-at-home person experienced a lot more "Nows".

Outside of that, it reads like a college freshman just discovered configuration spaces and has decided that they have learned the secrets of the universe.
 
2012-09-20 07:24:06 AM
Where we were yesterday is still there somewhere. Time is circular, not linear. Look at EVERYTHING known to man in the astrophysics sort of way. Is there anything we know of that's not spinning around? Are the Zen police at my door?
 
2012-09-20 07:33:16 AM

MartinD-35: Time is circular, not linear.


It's not really either. There are two aspects of time that we tend to confuse, but they're not related. First is spacetime- the idea that each event in the universe is uniquely identifiable by a 4-part address. (x,y,z,t) coordinates, for example. That's time.

The other aspect is causality. We understand the universe in terms of causal relationships- I released the rock and then it fell. Our tools for measuring time are causal tools, and as a result, we experience time as having an arrow or direction. Causality is directed, time is just a coordinate system.

The interesting thing is that many physical phenomenon are direction independent. If you were to reverse the clock and play the universe in reverse, a block of Uranium wouldn't have some of its atoms undecay- it would continue decaying just like normal.
 
2012-09-20 07:42:38 AM
There is no time?

Morris Day will be inconsolable!
 
2012-09-20 07:52:57 AM

t3knomanser: Outside of that, it reads like a college freshman just discovered configuration spaces and has decided that they have learned the secrets of the universe.


That's really a function of the fact that it's an article in a popular science magazine (the clue is in the name) about a popular audience book by Adam Frank that refers to real science by Julian Barbour. After going through that much dumbing down, anything is going to sound like a college freshman just discovered recreational drugs and has decided that they have learned the secrets of the universe.

Julian Barbour is doing serious, respected physics that go to the heart of the really tough questions you raise in your second post (why does time have a direction? why does time appear to "flow" when Einstein's physics strongly imply that all of time exists just as much as space does? why do the various arrows of time all point in the same direction? how does the asymmetry of, for example, nuclear decay arise from underlying symmetric laws?). At a minimum, people should read Barbour's own popularization of his work, The End of Time, before dismissing him on the basis of this article.
 
2012-09-20 07:52:57 AM

OldRod: There is no time?

Morris Day will be inconsolable!


He would just be morris day!

thumbsnap.com

"NO MORE AND THEN!"
 
2012-09-20 07:58:48 AM

czetie: That's really a function of the fact that it's an article in a popular science magazine


It's really science "journalism" that I'm criticizing. I'm not familiar with Barbour himself, but I do have a good sense of the work being done on the direction of causality. I've probably seen his name before, but I have the worst time actually giving a shiat about learning who people are.
 
2012-09-20 08:10:16 AM
Platonia? Nows? Records?

...oh, book plug. Got it. Hey, PopSci, I too can read papers I don't understand and write shallow philosophy while high, so don't make me come over there.
 
2012-09-20 08:11:01 AM
Really? An article about Julian Barbour? Where's everyone been for the last 12 years? Heck, I was emailing back and forth with Dr. Barbour back in 2001 after reading his book "End of Time."
 
2012-09-20 08:27:18 AM

carterjw: Then what did I waste reading that bs?


Bandwidth and electricity. These are measureable factors in the universe.
 
2012-09-20 08:33:20 AM
Then how would I know how to count what is Ticking away the moments That make up a dull day how would I know how to Fritter and waste the hours In an off-hand way?
 
2012-09-20 08:33:53 AM
Then how do kittens turn into cats?
 
2012-09-20 08:44:34 AM
I got to work hellbent on not thinking today and then this thread happened.

Also...

Tiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiime
Is on my side
YES IT IS!
 
2012-09-20 08:50:54 AM
It says a lot about his theory that he's going to the public with it rather than his peers that actually might give 2 farks.
 
2012-09-20 08:53:53 AM

uberaverage: Then how do kittens turn into catsthe Internet?


FTFY
 
2012-09-20 08:56:51 AM
Time is an illusion. teatime doubly so.

--Douglas Adams
 
2012-09-20 09:09:10 AM

OldRod: There is no time?

Morris Day will be inconsolable!


although without time, wouldn`t he just be morris?
 
2012-09-20 09:11:15 AM
You have to walk through time. A clock isn't time; it's just numbers and springs. Pay it no mind.
 
2012-09-20 09:11:18 AM
With his collaborators, Barbour has published a series of papers demonstrating how relativity and quantum mechanics naturally emerge from the physics of Platonia.

Wake me up when he can demonstrate how entropy and the 2nd law of thermodynamics naturally emerges from his theory
 
2012-09-20 09:17:41 AM

t3knomanser: czetie: That's really a function of the fact that it's an article in a popular science magazine

It's really science "journalism" that I'm criticizing. I'm not familiar with Barbour himself, but I do have a good sense of the work being done on the direction of causality.


Yes, that's obvious from your track record in these parts.


I've probably seen his name before, but I have the worst time actually giving a shiat about learning who people are.

I think I know what you mean. When I'm reading a paper or a report on a paper, my eye just glides over references to people or institutions in citations. I just happen to be superficially familiar with his work from prior exposure, so his name caught my eye.
 
2012-09-20 09:32:32 AM

DammitIForgotMyLogin: With his collaborators, Barbour has published a series of papers demonstrating how relativity and quantum mechanics naturally emerge from the physics of Platonia.

Wake me up when he can demonstrate how entropy and the 2nd law of thermodynamics naturally emerges from his theory


He claims that he can. It's just a matter of arranging the Nows in a way that minimizes a particular function of the difference between two Nows.
 
2012-09-20 09:43:14 AM
"Think of the integers," he explains. "Every integer exists simultaneously. But some of the integers are linked in structures, like the set of all primes or the numbers you get from the Fibonacci series." The number 3 does not occur in the past of the number 5, just as the Now of the cat jumping off the table does not occur in the past of the Now wherein the cat lands on the floor.

I hate it when philosophy majors start trying to think about physics problems....
 
2012-09-20 09:55:23 AM
Does he really get LAID with this schtick???

I'd think he'd have better luck scoring by referring to God as a "she", or referring to other men as "them".
 
2012-09-20 09:59:28 AM

czetie: DammitIForgotMyLogin: With his collaborators, Barbour has published a series of papers demonstrating how relativity and quantum mechanics naturally emerge from the physics of Platonia.

Wake me up when he can demonstrate how entropy and the 2nd law of thermodynamics naturally emerges from his theory

He claims that he can. It's just a matter of arranging the Nows in a way that minimizes a particular function of the difference between two Nows.


i111.photobucket.com
 
2012-09-20 10:36:31 AM
... the men of this planet conceive the universe as a series of mental processes which do not develop in space but successively in time. [...] In other words, they do not conceive that the spatial persists in time. The perception of a cloud of smoke on the horizon and then of the burning field and then of the half-extinguished cigarette that produced the blaze is considered an example of association of ideas.

Jorge Luis Borges, Tlön, Uqbar and Orbis Tertius
 
2012-09-20 10:53:28 AM

rogue49: bullshiat

They've proven time is a Dimension...an essential aspect of what we live within.

They've proven that as with space, it is warped by Mass in Relativitistic affects,
time slowing it down as it increases...
proven 10,000 TIMES more accurate than ever, almost 100 years after Einstein.

If anything, they need to expand the concept...not remove it.

/and as with Xeno's paradox...this guy isn't going anywhere fast with this idea


You use that term "fast" like it means something.
 
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