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(The Register)   You know that state of the art system that allows you to start your car without taking your keys out of your pockets? It turns out that car thieves love it too   (theregister.co.uk ) divider line
    More: Obvious, BMW, UCSD, pockets  
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7998 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Sep 2012 at 11:38 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-20 08:48:08 AM  
1 vote:

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: Sim Tree: The very first model year these things were made, they had wicked strong encryption, so much so that the US government forbade them to export to most countries. I don't know if they deliberately weakened the encryption in response, or if holes were found in it via the inevitable march of technology, but I can't fault the auto makers for either.

I'm confused by the encryption comment. What's the authentication method? Does the key go through a handshake with the car to verify each other? Because it doesn't matter how strong the encryption is if anyone can just intercept the encrypted phrase and then transmit that.


That was the major factor, to prevent rebroadcasts. Once a signal was received by the car, it would be 'consumed' and no longer valid to the car ever again. The car and the key would then each go on to independently calculate the same next new code in an encryption series, based loosely on the previous code, but mostly on the fob. The car, being the more complicated entity, would actually keep a 'window' of ~200 codes in case the owner was mashing the button out of range. If a code in the window was received by the car, it would unlock, drop the older codes, and fill the window up to 200 again. (Usually this would be an increase of 1 after receiving code #1, because usually customers were usually in range when unlocking the car.) Dual windows would be kept for husband/wife teams.

The series itself was also supposed to be incalculable from any number of previous codes without possessing that one actual fob, but that's less useful now. A PS3 could probably crack a series in a few days or weeks. But at the time, this was a herculean task requiring centuries.

They also wanted each series to be unique to a specific automobile. Even if you had a working series with the working algorithm (say, by taking apart a number of fobs) and just started broadcasting unlock codes, the chances of crossing another car's series would literally be over 1 in ten trillion. So you couldn't go into a parking lot and just try your hand. It did, however, mean the car needed to be reprogrammed by the dealer if you lost your keys.

Even at worst, tho, it's much better than the mechanical key. Generally, a given model year only had ~10 keys possible. If you had all 10 keys, you could drive any car of that model any time you wanted. Repo men would frequently keep a keychain of "GM keys" etc., as in: 'We need to repossess a pinto? That'll be key #85 or so'. People wound up on fark after driving the wrong car home a couple times.
2012-09-20 02:42:14 AM  
1 vote:
I know this may make me the odd man out, but... I really don't have a problem with just sticking a real key into the ignition and turning it to start the car. In fact, I'd rather that car manufacturers stop adding this kind of crap to cars so that they can hold down the prices.

/yeah, I know...
//get the f*ck off my lawn
2012-09-20 01:39:07 AM  
1 vote:

Raoul Eaton: This is one more example of why I'm not an early adopter, particularly with wireless anything.

///wired the house with cat 5 cable.


Comme ceci?

www.widescreenwallpapers.org
2012-09-20 01:02:21 AM  
1 vote:
Best anti-theft device for non luxury cars? Stick Shift.

No really, criminals are mostly idiots and idiots vary rarely learn to drive a stick shift anymore.
2012-09-20 12:26:08 AM  
1 vote:
This is where I once again I'm OK with my distrust of things being _all_ electronic, especially if there are radio communications involved that others can pick up.
Take for instance the older systems, where the key has a little chip in in that talks to the computer, but you still have to put the key in a mechanical lock to get it to go.
Unless I'm missing something, you've actually removed a layer of security (the actual ignition lock). What good is that?

2002 or newer=intercept chip transmission, then a screwdriver to the ignition or whatever.
2012=intercept chip transmission, push button...which one is harder?

/Lawn, off.
2012-09-20 12:05:22 AM  
1 vote:

eraser8: wallywam1: Got a big rock? You can easily get into someone's house or car.

/yawn

Not the Zombie Apocalypse House.

Goes from this:

[asset3.cbsistatic.com image 550x366]

To this:

[i.i.com.com image 550x365]


That could be bypassed with a rock in the closing mechanism.

On a side note, those images are dishonest since they show different sides of the house. In a similar vein watch as I transform this WalMart into an impenetrable fortress.
www.inquisitr.com
places.designobserver.com
2012-09-19 11:59:37 PM  
1 vote:
Does this surprise anyone? Anyone at all?

There's a whole laundry list of 'hacks' for every wireless system which has popped up from baby monitors to wireless home security systems.

I figured it would be just a matter of time before these remote car starters would be 'hacked' and by hacked I mean copied like the RFID chips in credit cards. Anything broadcast through the air via radio waves can be intercepted and copied.

There's even inroads being made to be able to listen in on cell phone conversations. There are already cell phone jammers out -- illegal in the US for private use but a lot of businesses have begun to install them and you can buy pocket versions from China off the Internet.

Consider the fact that with something like On-Star, automobile dealers can now shut down your car if you're behind in payments and even track it down for repossession. (This system is also being used to catch car thieves.)

As soon as someone came up with a keyed ignition system for cars, someone else found out how to crack it. (Early cars had no key ignition. You set the gas, set the spark, set the brake, made sure the transmission was in neutral then went out and cranked the engine by hand like mad.)
You can read about gangsters stealing early cars as easily as picking out shirts in a store.
2012-09-19 11:51:59 PM  
1 vote:

Sim Tree: The very first model year these things were made, they had wicked strong encryption, so much so that the US government forbade them to export to most countries. I don't know if they deliberately weakened the encryption in response, or if holes were found in it via the inevitable march of technology, but I can't fault the auto makers for either.


As a thought we wanted to start a "secret" society. Really a club that just dealt with encryption, security and fun stuff involving those subjects. A branch off our radio and tech classes. We get together and play around with this different ideas and methods. However I can't help but think if it ever got to be more than a few friends and beer the government would either imprison us or hire us.
2012-09-19 11:50:50 PM  
1 vote:

Gyrfalcon: Sim Tree: bdub77: I realize this is a legal statement basically, but I'm sorry, security threats should be fully addressed when the car is designed and developed. This includes wireless cryptography and other tech security considerations.

The very first model year these things were made, they had wicked strong encryption, so much so that the US government forbade them to export to most countries. I don't know if they deliberately weakened the encryption in response, or if holes were found in it via the inevitable march of technology, but I can't fault the auto makers for either.

Possibly both.

If you create a supposedly theft-proof system, thieves WILL find a way to defeat it, and usually sooner rather than later.


Car alarms were the reason why car jackings went up. When you make it harder to steal a parked car, they just wait until you're in it, shoot you and drive off.
2012-09-19 11:41:07 PM  
1 vote:

Sim Tree: bdub77: I realize this is a legal statement basically, but I'm sorry, security threats should be fully addressed when the car is designed and developed. This includes wireless cryptography and other tech security considerations.

The very first model year these things were made, they had wicked strong encryption, so much so that the US government forbade them to export to most countries. I don't know if they deliberately weakened the encryption in response, or if holes were found in it via the inevitable march of technology, but I can't fault the auto makers for either.


Possibly both.

If you create a supposedly theft-proof system, thieves WILL find a way to defeat it, and usually sooner rather than later.
2012-09-19 09:24:36 PM  
1 vote:

bdub77: I realize this is a legal statement basically, but I'm sorry, security threats should be fully addressed when the car is designed and developed. This includes wireless cryptography and other tech security considerations.


The very first model year these things were made, they had wicked strong encryption, so much so that the US government forbade them to export to most countries. I don't know if they deliberately weakened the encryption in response, or if holes were found in it via the inevitable march of technology, but I can't fault the auto makers for either.
2012-09-19 09:11:24 PM  
1 vote:
In response, BMW told the BBC that the carjacker/hacker technique was developed after its cars were designed and was limited to "older" BMW models - those built before September 2011. "Certain criminal threats, like the one you have highlighted, simply do not exist when cars are designed and developed. This does not mean the car companies have done anything wrong, neither are they legally obliged to take any action," it said.

I realize this is a legal statement basically, but I'm sorry, security threats should be fully addressed when the car is designed and developed. This includes wireless cryptography and other tech security considerations.
 
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