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(Popular Science)   The last dinosaur died in 1927: The gospel according to Creationists   (popsci.com ) divider line
    More: Silly, creation myths, gospels, creationists, electronic publishing, human knowledge, Geologic Time Scale For Creationists, Adam and Eve, James Ussher  
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22145 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Sep 2012 at 4:37 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-19 05:01:37 PM  

CDP: the coelacanth. In 1938 this one-and-a-half-metre-long (five-foot) fish was caught in the Indian Ocean off the coast of Africa. From fossils, scientists had declared it extinct for about the same time period as the dinosaurs, but it was actually quite well known to the Madagascan fishermen, who had been catching it for centuries.

Very recently, a live tree was discovered, in an Australian wilderness, which was previously unknown except for its 'dinosaur age' fossils.4 Evolutionists must explain not only why such organisms as these documented finds have survived unchanged through millions of years of mutations and changing environments and predators, but why none of their fossils are found in the rock layers representing the alleged millions of years between then and the present.

The puzzle is solved, however, when the millions of years are seen as fiction, and the fossils are seen largely as the result of the global Flood described in the Bible. Although many creatures have become extinct in the thousands of years since the Flood, it is far less surprising for creationists than evolutionists when some of them, known only from the fossil record, turn up alive and well.


Link

[i132.photobucket.com image 309x360]


And a guy built a big boat, put two of every species on earth in it, and survived this great flood only to re-populate the planet.

Yea.

And some people think what Scientologists believe is crazy.
 
2012-09-19 05:02:39 PM  

YixilTesiphon: NO ONE MURDERED BECAUSE OF THIS THREAD



Yet.


Wait 'til the fundies read it.
 
2012-09-19 05:03:01 PM  

CDP: the coelacanth. In 1938 this one-and-a-half-metre-long (five-foot) fish was caught in the Indian Ocean off the coast of Africa. From fossils, scientists had declared it extinct for about the same time period as the dinosaurs, but it was actually quite well known to the Madagascan fishermen, who had been catching it for centuries.

Very recently, a live tree was discovered, in an Australian wilderness, which was previously unknown except for its 'dinosaur age' fossils.4 Evolutionists must explain not only why such organisms as these documented finds have survived unchanged through millions of years of mutations and changing environments and predators, but why none of their fossils are found in the rock layers representing the alleged millions of years between then and the present.

The puzzle is solved, however, when the millions of years are seen as fiction, and the fossils are seen largely as the result of the global Flood described in the Bible. Although many creatures have become extinct in the thousands of years since the Flood, it is far less surprising for creationists than evolutionists when some of them, known only from the fossil record, turn up alive and well.

Link

[i132.photobucket.com image 309x360]


And a guy built a big boat, put two of every species on earth in it, and survived this great flood only to re-populate the planet.

Yea.

And some people think what Scientologists believe is crazy.
 
2012-09-19 05:04:04 PM  

YixilTesiphon: NO ONE MURDERED BECAUSE OF THIS THREAD


yet. It's still a possibility, both sides are bad, worship Ahura Mazda.
 
2012-09-19 05:04:55 PM  

gilgigamesh:

There may be no need for it, but it's fun. This is a clever chart made to entertain, not to distort anything. Lighten up.

You're acting like there can be a reasonable debate, and perhaps some mutual understanding, arguing two opposing viewpoints. The fact is, thinking the entire geologic record was laid down in a few years or a few days or whatever is crazypants. It is an argument derived backwards from a conclusion made by illiterate shepherds back in the Bronze Age. There can be no debate with people who insist on interpreting facts so that they support such a ridiculous conclusion; any more than you can argue reasonably with someone who believes reality is a time cube or that the earth is a disc on the back of a cosmic turtle.

Derision and ridicule is the only way to respond to nonsense. I think this chart fits that method nicely.



I agree, derision and ridicule are the only appropriate responses. My point is that the creationists can point to this and say we are misrepresenting their beliefs. We should mock, deride, and ridicule the nonsensical things they actually do believe. There is simply no need to make up ridiculous things to mock them for; we can mock them for what they really do think.

Yeah, maybe I should lighten up.
 
2012-09-19 05:05:00 PM  

skullkrusher: YixilTesiphon: NO ONE MURDERED BECAUSE OF THIS THREAD

yet. It's still a possibility, both sides are bad, worship Ahura Mazda.


You misspelled "Acura".
 
mjg
2012-09-19 05:05:26 PM  
www.allmystery.de

Graphic in TFA reminded me of this
 
2012-09-19 05:07:34 PM  

BeesNuts: skullkrusher: YixilTesiphon: NO ONE MURDERED BECAUSE OF THIS THREAD

yet. It's still a possibility, both sides are bad, worship Ahura Mazda.

You misspelled "Acura".


teehee

Zoroastrians worship a crappy import
 
2012-09-19 05:08:11 PM  

mjg: [www.allmystery.de image 300x235]

Graphic in TFA reminded me of this


I see you went to BU
 
2012-09-19 05:08:19 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2012-09-19 05:08:24 PM  
2.bp.blogspot.com

Ogopogo
 
2012-09-19 05:09:10 PM  

cwolf20: Is it wrong that the song

"Denver, the last dinosaur. He's my friend and so much more"

popped into my head?



That show sucked donkey balls.
 
2012-09-19 05:09:17 PM  

Makh: No, they are still around dictating our biological and internet policies. Some of them, however, have evolved into birds, particularly of the chickenhawk variety.


FTFY
 
2012-09-19 05:10:28 PM  

Watchtower's Fiction Editor: You can be cynical and state as a positive that ignorance will forever lock these kids out of meaningful social involvement or influence (except for the kids of the rich ones of course) but it doesn't change the fact that these poor children are essentially having thier brains bound like an ancient Chinese woman's foot in a world where knowledge is the last measure of potential for success and prosperity


Or that their votes will determine what our children and grandchildren will be taught.

But hey, freedom of religion, right?
 
2012-09-19 05:10:31 PM  

Banned on the Run: Honestly -- if you were trying to create comically wacky out-of-touch characters for a movie, I don't think you could do any better.


Let's leave the candidates for President on the politics tab.
 
2012-09-19 05:10:31 PM  
Dinosaurs are a myth. Like gravity, or the Sun.
 
2012-09-19 05:11:25 PM  

YixilTesiphon: NO ONE MURDERED BECAUSE OF THIS THREAD


I was wondering what would happen if someone did a "Muhammad raptor" instead of a "Jesus raptor".
 
2012-09-19 05:11:39 PM  

FloydA: I agree, derision and ridicule are the only appropriate responses. My point is that the creationists can point to this and say we are misrepresenting their beliefs. We should mock, deride, and ridicule the nonsensical things they actually do believe. There is simply no need to make up ridiculous things to mock them for; we can mock them for what they really do think.


I don't know that the chart was intended as a literal representation of what creationists believe. I think it was a representation of how the history of the earth would look if you crammed it into the 6,000 year timeline creationists believe.

Carl Sagan used to do something similar on Cosmos to represent the age of the universe if it was compressed into the span of a year. Most of the year nothing happened, and the last few seconds before midnight on New Years Eve represented all of human history. That's what I got out of this chart.
 
2012-09-19 05:11:51 PM  
Dinosaurs walk the earth today. These are the people who still use paper for their information.
 
2012-09-19 05:12:33 PM  
I know the educationalists beliefs were misrepresented or whatever, but this is still obligatory:
t0.gstatic.com
 
2012-09-19 05:12:34 PM  

downstairs:


Ok, so when do they think dinosaurs existed, and when did they go extinct?
 
While I think the infographic is fun, I'm willing to hear what they really think.  So serious question, not snark.


That's a tricky question; they tend to be of multiple opinions. Some cite the Loch Ness Monster and the Mokèlé-mbèmbé legend of the Congo river and claim that the sauropods still exist today, they're just hiding, like Bigfoot.

Others claim that they were on Noah's Ark, and somehow the raptors were prevented from eating either of the two cows, pigs, sheep, etc. but they went extinct for no good reason at all as soon as the ark landed.

Still others claim that they were extinct before the creation of humans described in Genesis.

Still others believe that all the fossils were put in the ground by the devil to trick us.

Still others believe that the fossils were put in the ground by God because, for whatever inscrutable reason, God wanted the 6000 year old earth to look a lot older than it was.

In short, they believe all types of crazy crap. We don't need to make up things to mock them for.
 
2012-09-19 05:13:32 PM  

Cyberluddite: OK, I hate to stick up for creationists here, but this isn't what they believe at all. What this thing does is take the scientific theory of the timeline and processes of the creation of the earth through the present--a theory that the creationists reject--and overlay it against their "the earth is 6000 years old" nonsense.

Yes, if someone believed that the geologic events and timeline of the earth played out exactly as scientists say it did, but their only disagreement was that it occurred over the course of only 6000 years rather than over the course of the 4.5 billion years as scientists say it took, then they would believe that dinosaurs lasted until the 20th Century. Which would be interesting, if there was anybody who believed that, but there isn't.

Creationists believe enough wacky stuff without misstating their beliefs. Stop it.


This.
 
2012-09-19 05:14:44 PM  

gilgigamesh: Derision and ridicule is the only way to respond to nonsense. I think this chart fits that method nicely.


The problem is when the reaction they get is derision and ridicule and they keep their cool and continue with their subtly worded and well-sounding but bad science, they look like the good guys.

That's sort of the whole strategy. Don't mischaracterize and don't shoot from the hip. If you critique a creationist statement be clear, polite, and be correct.
 
2012-09-19 05:15:14 PM  
Prohibition killed the dinosaurs.
 
2012-09-19 05:16:05 PM  

dpzum1: CDP: the coelacanth. In 1938 this one-and-a-half-metre-long (five-foot) fish was caught in the Indian Ocean off the coast of Africa. From fossils, scientists had declared it extinct for about the same time period as the dinosaurs, but it was actually quite well known to the Madagascan fishermen, who had been catching it for centuries.

Very recently, a live tree was discovered, in an Australian wilderness, which was previously unknown except for its 'dinosaur age' fossils.4 Evolutionists must explain not only why such organisms as these documented finds have survived unchanged through millions of years of mutations and changing environments and predators, but why none of their fossils are found in the rock layers representing the alleged millions of years between then and the present.

The puzzle is solved, however, when the millions of years are seen as fiction, and the fossils are seen largely as the result of the global Flood described in the Bible. Although many creatures have become extinct in the thousands of years since the Flood, it is far less surprising for creationists than evolutionists when some of them, known only from the fossil record, turn up alive and well.


Link

[i132.photobucket.com image 309x360]

And a guy built a big boat, put two of every species on earth in it, and survived this great flood only to re-populate the planet.

Yea.

And some people think what Scientologists believe is crazy.


Not only a large wooden boat, but one with an 18" ventilation window - for the whole thing... Also where did all the freshwater fish survive - in the on ark aquariums that jeebus never wrote about?

Scientolody = Cult of Xtianity = Cult of Judaism

/ All religion is farked.
 
2012-09-19 05:16:28 PM  

gilgigamesh: Derision and ridicule is the only way to respond to nonsense


I disagree. Derision and ridicule are tools for dehumanizing people in order to escape the pangs of conscience that would otherwise occur when they are abused.
 
2012-09-19 05:16:39 PM  
www.chartgeek.com 

I NEED this as a poster.
 
2012-09-19 05:16:50 PM  

FloydA: downstairs:

In short, they believe all types of crazy crap. We don't need to make up things to mock them for.


If a creationist pointed to this chart and said, "We don't believe dinosaurs went extinct in 1927. That's crazy, and you are misrepresenting my belief that God put dinosaur bones in the ground to trick us", well...

I don't know how I'd respond to that.
 
2012-09-19 05:17:40 PM  

donttalktochris: Watchtower's Fiction Editor: This is all hilarious right up until the moment you realize that home-schooled kids are being dosed up with a 4000 year old world as literal truth right this very minute in the living rooms of quite a few religious households. You can be cynical and state as a positive that ignorance will forever lock these kids out of meaningful social involvement or influence (except for the kids of the rich ones of course) but it doesn't change the fact that these poor children are essentially having thier brains bound like an ancient Chinese woman's foot in a world where knowledge is the last measure of potential for success and prosperity. I feel bad for these kids; critical thinking will rescue to many of them far too late.

That was all hilarious right up until the moment I realized that a fraction of a fraction of 1% of the creationists I know lend themselves to this feeble attempt to bash them without citation. Shooting at an easy target is not impressive.


I know the contents of the article assume a correlation of eras to timeframe that is essentially a straw man argument-what is authentic is the central tennant of the world as new-i'm referring to people who believe in the concept of a world that is only 4-6000 years old, enough people to keep a fully-staffed museum running that champions said belief. And I can certainly worry about the fate of people whose religious convictions are completely irreconcillable with vast swathes of geology, biology and physics. It's more than just looking eccentric at cocktail parties; a big part of the real world just isn't there for them.
 
2012-09-19 05:18:55 PM  

FloydA: downstairs:


Ok, so when do they think dinosaurs existed, and when did they go extinct?
 
While I think the infographic is fun, I'm willing to hear what they really think.  So serious question, not snark.

That's a tricky question; they tend to be of multiple opinions. Some cite the Loch Ness Monster and the Mokèlé-mbèmbé legend of the Congo river and claim that the sauropods still exist today, they're just hiding, like Bigfoot.

Others claim that they were on Noah's Ark, and somehow the raptors were prevented from eating either of the two cows, pigs, sheep, etc. but they went extinct for no good reason at all as soon as the ark landed.

Still others claim that they were extinct before the creation of humans described in Genesis.

Still others believe that all the fossils were put in the ground by the devil to trick us.

Still others believe that the fossils were put in the ground by God because, for whatever inscrutable reason, God wanted the 6000 year old earth to look a lot older than it was.

In short, they believe all types of crazy crap. We don't need to make up things to mock them for.


But most people beleive that they ate too many donuts and just...
BURST!
 
2012-09-19 05:19:58 PM  

CDP: Evolutionists must explain not only why such organisms as these documented finds have survived unchanged through millions of years of mutations and changing environments and predators,


Because they've evolved to a point where only minimal adjustments are needed to deal with change. The sharks are one example.

but why none of their fossils are found in the rock layers representing the alleged millions of years between then and the present.

Most animals don't become fossilized.

The problem with creationists is that the things they say is so nuts that I have trouble telling whether they're joking or not. Poe's law.
 
2012-09-19 05:20:59 PM  
Really? Here's a timeline created by and believed by no creationist, let's laugh at the creationists for it? Somebody is bored out of their frikin mind.
 
2012-09-19 05:21:41 PM  
So, the Flintstones was a documentary, am I reading this right?
 
2012-09-19 05:21:46 PM  

gilgigamesh:

I don't know that the chart was intended as a literal representation of what creationists believe. I think it was a representation of how the history of the earth would look if you crammed it into the 6,000 year timeline creationists believe.


Yeah, and it does that successfully. If Pop-Sci had been more eloquent about their presentation and explained that point, the article could have worked.


Carl Sagan used to do something similar on Cosmos to represent the age of the universe if it was compressed into the span of a year. Most of the year nothing happened, and the last few seconds before midnight on New Years Eve represented all of human history. That's what I got out of this chart.

I do something similar with hominin history in the intro. It can be an effective technique. I just don't think Pop-Sci pulled it off effectively. If they had been more explicit about what the image was actually doing, this could have been a better article.

(Besides, I tend to cut Ussher a lot of slack. He was wrong, but he at least did the best he could with the evidence available to him at the time. People who still believe in a 6000 year old earth are idiots, but Ussher himself was using all of the evidence at his disposal to try to answer an important question. Today, we have much better evidence, but we can't really fault Ussher for publishing in the 17th century.)
 
2012-09-19 05:22:20 PM  

Elzar: Not only a large wooden boat, but one with an 18" ventilation window - for the whole thing... Also where did all the freshwater fish survive - in the on ark aquariums that jeebus never wrote about?


Which raises the question of how the freshwater fish got to the ark in the first place...
 
2012-09-19 05:22:55 PM  
Well then what about the farking stars, motherfarkers? Those bits of light that took millions of years to reach us? You should hear the answers for that given by my fundamentalist friends.

/yes, have fundamentalist friends
//we mostly talk about movies and shiat to avoid conflict
 
2012-09-19 05:22:59 PM  

YixilTesiphon: NO ONE MURDERED BECAUSE OF THIS THREAD


Yet.
 
2012-09-19 05:23:10 PM  

Cyberluddite: OK, I hate to stick up for creationists here, but this isn't what they believe at all. What this thing does is take the scientific theory of the timeline and processes of the creation of the earth through the present--a theory that the creationists reject--and overlay it against their "the earth is 6000 years old" nonsense.

Yes, if someone believed that the geologic events and timeline of the earth played out exactly as scientists say it did, but their only disagreement was that it occurred over the course of only 6000 years rather than over the course of the 4.5 billion years as scientists say it took, then they would believe that dinosaurs lasted until the 20th Century. Which would be interesting, if there was anybody who believed that, but there isn't.

Creationists believe enough wacky stuff without misstating their beliefs. Stop it.


I came in here to say basically this, but as usual I'm late and someone said it better than I would have.
 
2012-09-19 05:23:16 PM  

icallhimgamblor: Wrong. They were still around in 1958.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 295x422]


the sad thing is libraries always file this under fiction for some reason ... dunno why.
 
2012-09-19 05:23:23 PM  
 
2012-09-19 05:23:41 PM  
OK that is amusing but misleading. Creationists are stupid but not stupid enough to believe that dinosaurs lasted until the 20th century.
 
2012-09-19 05:24:40 PM  

Pro Zack: gilgigamesh: Derision and ridicule is the only way to respond to nonsense

I disagree. Derision and ridicule are tools for dehumanizing people in order to escape the pangs of conscience that would otherwise occur when they are abused.


If someone chooses to be ignorant of an obvious fact staring him in the face, how would you suggest you rationalize with him or her?

That's what this amounts to. Creationists have arrived at an unsupportable conclusion because of faith in Bronze Age fables, and they use that conclusion to construct their own reality. In other circumstances this would be diagnosed as delusional psychosis and treated with medication or perhaps therapy.

I would be happy to suggest that as an alternative, except they would probably see that as ridicule or persecution as well.
 
2012-09-19 05:26:08 PM  

gilgigamesh:

If a creationist pointed to this chart and said, "We don't believe dinosaurs went extinct in 1927. That's crazy, and you are misrepresenting my belief that God put dinosaur bones in the ground to trick us", well...

I don't know how I'd respond to that.


Yeah, that's a tough one.


highendmighty:

But most people beleive that they ate too many donuts and just...
BURST!


That's what people say, but I know the real truth!

i105.photobucket.com
 
2012-09-19 05:26:18 PM  

Uncle Tractor: Elzar: Not only a large wooden boat, but one with an 18" ventilation window - for the whole thing... Also where did all the freshwater fish survive - in the on ark aquariums that jeebus never wrote about?

Which raises the question of how the freshwater fish got to the ark in the first place...


You guys are missing the whole point that Jeebus and his Pops is magic, so he could do anything he wanted...

which begs the question...then why did he need some bronze age farmer to build him an ark?
 
2012-09-19 05:26:45 PM  
LoL

I just watched some Richard Dawkins' documentary on YT the other day about Darwin.

He was talking to some bible thumper in the UK who believed the earth was only about 600 yrs old or so.
 
2012-09-19 05:27:11 PM  
Being too stupid to build an asteroid defense system killed the dinosaurs.

History has a way of repeating itself for those who don't learn from it.

Also, history has a way of repeating itself for those who don't learn from it.

Furthermore, history has a way of repeating itself for those who don't learn from it.

Solution: Build said defense system and terraform other planets.

Wait, what was the article about again?
 
2012-09-19 05:27:46 PM  
This is funny because the "young earth" hypothesis was proposed by a medieval Catholic priest.
The hypothesis was picked up by Protestants in the early 20th C.
The Catholic Church doesn't use it, but accepts the approx 13 billion year old earth.
Young Earth Creationists are Derp.

as well as runing with "in God we trust" and "God" in the pledge, from back in the prehistory of 1965
 
2012-09-19 05:28:20 PM  

FloydA: Yeah, and it does that successfully. If Pop-Sci had been more eloquent about their presentation and explained that point, the article could have worked.


I agree with you there. I assume that was their intent as opposed to intentional misrepresentation, but the fact that you and others didn't see it that way is proof positive that they could have made that clearer.
 
2012-09-19 05:31:12 PM  

Man On Pink Corner: But hey, freedom of religion, right?


That only applies to adults. Children have no such freedom.
 
2012-09-19 05:31:37 PM  

vegasj: LoL

I just watched some Richard Dawkins' documentary on YT the other day about Darwin.

He was talking to some bible thumper in the UK who believed the earth was only about 600 yrs old or so.


Wait six hundred years? That can't be right. There are trees still alive today that are older than that. Hell, there are cathedrals in the UK much older than that. Stonehenge would be about 8 times older than the earth.
 
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