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(Uproxx)   The new Hobbit trailer is here. Now that's what I'm Tolkien about   (uproxx.com) divider line 109
    More: Cool, Frodo Baggins, previews  
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5350 clicks; posted to Geek » on 19 Sep 2012 at 11:47 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-19 11:50:39 AM
I hope they do Silmarrion movie after this.
 
2012-09-19 11:51:39 AM
I'm surprised they didn't split that into three pages.
 
2012-09-19 11:52:04 AM
Stone giants, trolls, and orcs, oh my
 
2012-09-19 11:53:14 AM
Now that's what I'm Tolkien about

Ariel, naw!
 
2012-09-19 11:55:59 AM
I'm still hoping we get at least a look at Smaug in the first film. I know they won't get anywhere near that point in the story, but they could have a prologue in the beginning or a teaser of him at the end of the movie.
 
2012-09-19 11:58:29 AM
Bossa Nova!
 
2012-09-19 12:00:07 PM

BalugaJoe: I hope they do Silmarrion movie after this.


I have hoped for that for a long, long time.

I have to believe they will. Peter Jackson and LOTR content is nothing but money in the bank for New Line.

I don't see them stopping.
 
2012-09-19 12:00:12 PM

NeoCortex42: I'm still hoping we get at least a look at Smaug in the first film. I know they won't get anywhere near that point in the story, but they could have a prologue in the beginning or a teaser of him at the end of the movie.


They'll probably show him attacking the lonely mountain from a distance in a flashback. Thorin tells the whole party about being out hunting when it happens. If they stay true to the source material the unexpected party will be much too long and much too boring for a film audience without some flashbacks or other things to liven it up.
 
2012-09-19 12:00:51 PM

NeoCortex42: I'm still hoping we get at least a look at Smaug Galadriel's tits in the first film.

 
2012-09-19 12:01:00 PM
Fili and Kili just don't look right.

Is it just me?
 
2012-09-19 12:02:49 PM

Rev.K: I have hoped for that for a long, long time.

I have to believe they will. Peter Jackson and LOTR content is nothing but money in the bank for New Line.

I don't see them stopping.


They don't have the rights to The Simarillion. They'd have to negotiate with Tolkein's estate and I'm sure they won't give it up cheap.
 
2012-09-19 12:04:21 PM

Big Beef Burrito: Bossa Nova!


*stares*
 
2012-09-19 12:04:32 PM

Snapper Carr: They don't have the rights to The Simarillion. They'd have to negotiate with Tolkein's estate and I'm sure they won't give it up cheap.


Perhaps not.

But with The Hobbit banking another $2 billion or so, I'm betting New Line will be willing to part with a lot of money to make it happen.

If The Hobbit can be three movies, The Silmarillion could be 16.
 
2012-09-19 12:05:22 PM

BalugaJoe: I hope they do Silmarrion movie after this.


Rev.K: BalugaJoe: I hope they do Silmarrion movie after this.

I have hoped for that for a long, long time.

I have to believe they will. Peter Jackson and LOTR content is nothing but money in the bank for New Line.

I don't see them stopping.


If I remember correctly, the only reason they were able to make a movie based on the trilogy and the Hobbit is because the Tolkien Estate sold the rights to the movie adaptation back in the '70s. The Tolkien Estate it self HATES the idea of the movies. In fact, the Tolkien Estate had to fight to even get proceeds from the modern adaptation of the trilogy.

http://www.thewrap.com/movies/column-post/who-hates-lord-rings-tolkie n -family-47841

http://www.probatelawyerblog.com/2009/09/tolkien-estate-settles-lawsu i t-over-movie-proceeds.html

http://sedulia.blogs.com/sedulias_translations/2012/07/was-first-felt . html

Specifically: "n 1969, the writer sold the movie rights and rights for derived products for The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings to United Artists for 100,000 pounds sterling, a considerable sum at the time, but paltry when the current value is considered."
 
2012-09-19 12:05:32 PM

Egoy3k: NeoCortex42: I'm still hoping we get at least a look at Smaug in the first film. I know they won't get anywhere near that point in the story, but they could have a prologue in the beginning or a teaser of him at the end of the movie.

They'll probably show him attacking the lonely mountain from a distance in a flashback. Thorin tells the whole party about being out hunting when it happens. If they stay true to the source material the unexpected party will be much too long and much too boring for a film audience without some flashbacks or other things to liven it up.


That's what the musical interlude is for. We all know what Bilbo Baggins hates.

Rev.K: BalugaJoe: I hope they do Silmarrion movie after this.

I have hoped for that for a long, long time.

I have to believe they will. Peter Jackson and LOTR content is nothing but money in the bank for New Line.

I don't see them stopping.


The only problem with the Silmarillion is that it's not as well known to general audiences. Even people that haven't read LOTR or The Hobbit have heard of it. It will also be a little more difficult to market since it's not just one cohesive story. It's a collection of tales.

I think it would probably work best as an HBO series. Maybe a post-Game of Thrones fantasy production.
 
2012-09-19 12:06:17 PM
Is anyone else getting a weird "Battlefield: Earth" vibe from the facial hair on display?
 
2012-09-19 12:06:23 PM

Lord Dimwit: Big Beef Burrito: Bossa Nova!

*stares*


Chevy Nova?
 
2012-09-19 12:09:18 PM
I find myself somewhat disappointed that I'm not in the slightest bit interested in this.

Seriously. I just don't care and it sort of bothers me. I'm sure they will be excellent films.
 
2012-09-19 12:09:57 PM

NeoCortex42: Egoy3k: NeoCortex42: I'm still hoping we get at least a look at Smaug in the first film. I know they won't get anywhere near that point in the story, but they could have a prologue in the beginning or a teaser of him at the end of the movie.

They'll probably show him attacking the lonely mountain from a distance in a flashback. Thorin tells the whole party about being out hunting when it happens. If they stay true to the source material the unexpected party will be much too long and much too boring for a film audience without some flashbacks or other things to liven it up.

That's what the musical interlude is for. We all know what Bilbo Baggins hates.

Rev.K: BalugaJoe: I hope they do Silmarrion movie after this.

I have hoped for that for a long, long time.

I have to believe they will. Peter Jackson and LOTR content is nothing but money in the bank for New Line.

I don't see them stopping.

The only problem with the Silmarillion is that it's not as well known to general audiences. Even people that haven't read LOTR or The Hobbit have heard of it. It will also be a little more difficult to market since it's not just one cohesive story. It's a collection of tales.

I think it would probably work best as an HBO series. Maybe a post-Game of Thrones fantasy production.


I'd love to see The Tale of the Children of Húrin (Narn I Hîn Húrin) be given the Game of Thrones treatment. Or the Tale of Beren and Lúthien.
 
2012-09-19 12:11:00 PM

FishyFred: Is anyone else getting a weird "Battlefield: Earth" vibe from the facial hair on display?


Now that you mention it, yes. Long hair, prominent foreheads reminds of the aliens in "Battlefield: Earth"
 
2012-09-19 12:16:28 PM
After The Hobbit, New Line is making a three movie series out of 'Farmer Giles of Ham'.
 
2012-09-19 12:17:07 PM
Looks like it'll be crazy fun.
 
2012-09-19 12:17:13 PM

FishyFred: Is anyone else getting a weird "Battlefield: Earth" vibe from the facial hair on display?


Possibly.

The beards just don't seem right. They don't really seem like Dwarfs to me and I'm not sure why.
 
2012-09-19 12:17:20 PM

Big Beef Burrito: Lord Dimwit: Big Beef Burrito: Bossa Nova!

*stares*

Chevy Nova?


Cowabunga dude.
 
2012-09-19 12:19:30 PM

Modguy: NeoCortex42: Egoy3k: NeoCortex42: I'm still hoping we get at least a look at Smaug in the first film. I know they won't get anywhere near that point in the story, but they could have a prologue in the beginning or a teaser of him at the end of the movie.

They'll probably show him attacking the lonely mountain from a distance in a flashback. Thorin tells the whole party about being out hunting when it happens. If they stay true to the source material the unexpected party will be much too long and much too boring for a film audience without some flashbacks or other things to liven it up.

That's what the musical interlude is for. We all know what Bilbo Baggins hates.

Rev.K: BalugaJoe: I hope they do Silmarrion movie after this.

I have hoped for that for a long, long time.

I have to believe they will. Peter Jackson and LOTR content is nothing but money in the bank for New Line.

I don't see them stopping.

The only problem with the Silmarillion is that it's not as well known to general audiences. Even people that haven't read LOTR or The Hobbit have heard of it. It will also be a little more difficult to market since it's not just one cohesive story. It's a collection of tales.

I think it would probably work best as an HBO series. Maybe a post-Game of Thrones fantasy production.

I'd love to see The Tale of the Children of Húrin (Narn I Hîn Húrin) be given the Game of Thrones treatment. Or the Tale of Beren and Lúthien.


Fall of Gondolin anyone? An ARMY of Balrogs and other more frightening things, plus that epic one on one duel where the prince stabs the balrog to death with his helmet before they both die.
 
2012-09-19 12:22:38 PM

born_yesterday: Now that's what I'm Tolkien about

Ariel, naw!


Nazgul, please!
 
2012-09-19 12:23:23 PM

BalugaJoe: I hope they do Silmarrion movie after this.


Does that get good? The beginning felt like reading Old Testament genealogies and I quickly gave up.
 
2012-09-19 12:27:34 PM

NeoCortex42: I'm still hoping we get at least a look at Smaug in the first film. I know they won't get anywhere near that point in the story, but they could have a prologue in the beginning or a teaser of him at the end of the movie.


This hasn't gotten a lot of publicity, but the second Hobbit film is going to take most of the songs/music left out of both the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings and make a musical. It's going to be a love song to the fans, and the actors are already learning how to sing in English with a Sindarin accent.
 
2012-09-19 12:31:10 PM

The Martian Manhandler: After The Hobbit, New Line is making a three movie series out of 'Farmer Giles of Ham'.


Is that the story where the farmer has to fend off a giant or something with a blunderbuss? Or did I imagine all that?

AntonChigger: Fall of Gondolin anyone? An ARMY of Balrogs and other more frightening things, plus that epic one on one duel where the prince stabs the balrog to death with his helmet before they both die.


MOAR of this!
 
2012-09-19 12:31:32 PM

Big Beef Burrito: Bossa Nova!


Aldo Nova.
 
2012-09-19 12:32:06 PM

AntonChigger: Modguy: NeoCortex42: Egoy3k: NeoCortex42: I'm still hoping we get at least a look at Smaug in the first film. I know they won't get anywhere near that point in the story, but they could have a prologue in the beginning or a teaser of him at the end of the movie.

They'll probably show him attacking the lonely mountain from a distance in a flashback. Thorin tells the whole party about being out hunting when it happens. If they stay true to the source material the unexpected party will be much too long and much too boring for a film audience without some flashbacks or other things to liven it up.

That's what the musical interlude is for. We all know what Bilbo Baggins hates.

Rev.K: BalugaJoe: I hope they do Silmarrion movie after this.

I have hoped for that for a long, long time.

I have to believe they will. Peter Jackson and LOTR content is nothing but money in the bank for New Line.

I don't see them stopping.

The only problem with the Silmarillion is that it's not as well known to general audiences. Even people that haven't read LOTR or The Hobbit have heard of it. It will also be a little more difficult to market since it's not just one cohesive story. It's a collection of tales.

I think it would probably work best as an HBO series. Maybe a post-Game of Thrones fantasy production.

I'd love to see The Tale of the Children of Húrin (Narn I Hîn Húrin) be given the Game of Thrones treatment. Or the Tale of Beren and Lúthien.

Fall of Gondolin anyone? An ARMY of Balrogs and other more frightening things, plus that epic one on one duel where the prince stabs the balrog to death with his helmet before they both die.


Ohh that would be good.

Also, that guy is Glorfindel.

The guy who, according to some popular theories, not only died but was reborn (technically possible for elves; they have a weird afterlife depending on which stage of development you're looking at) in Valinor, came BACK to Middle Earth, and saved Frodo from the Nazgul on the way to Rivendell.
 
2012-09-19 12:32:18 PM

The Martian Manhandler: After The Hobbit, New Line is making a three movie series out of 'Farmer Giles of Ham'.


Where'd you hear that? I have it on the highest authority that New Line's next project will be an attempt to satisfy the hard-core tolkien geeks while cashing in on the "Glee" phenomenon by producing a "The Adventures of Tom Bombadill" which will of course be a musical and star Justin Beiber in the title role
 
2012-09-19 12:37:32 PM
Wonder how many movies it would take pj to tell the wheel of time saga?
 
2012-09-19 12:37:49 PM

you have pee hands: BalugaJoe: I hope they do Silmarrion movie after this.

Does that get good? The beginning felt like reading Old Testament genealogies and I quickly gave up.


It gets better, if by better you mean "it makes the overstuffed, overly formal, motionless text of the lord of the rings read like 'the hobbit'"

Took me years to finally force myself to finish that dull-ass book. Maybe it will work better as a film, but damn it's a tough slog to read.
 
2012-09-19 12:38:08 PM

Big Beef Burrito: FishyFred: Is anyone else getting a weird "Battlefield: Earth" vibe from the facial hair on display?

Possibly.

The beards just don't seem right. They don't really seem like Dwarfs to me and I'm not sure why.


For me it's the variation in body types. I sort of picture dwarfs as all looking like Gimli with minor variations in hair color and facial features. But these dwarfs look very different in build. But all I've seen are the introduction trailer/commercial so it's hard to say.
 
2012-09-19 12:45:41 PM

Modguy: Ohh that would be good.

Also, that guy is Glorfindel Ecthelion.


FTFY.
 
2012-09-19 12:50:12 PM

Modguy: BalugaJoe: I hope they do Silmarrion movie after this.

Rev.K: BalugaJoe: I hope they do Silmarrion movie after this.

I have hoped for that for a long, long time.

I have to believe they will. Peter Jackson and LOTR content is nothing but money in the bank for New Line.

I don't see them stopping.

If I remember correctly, the only reason they were able to make a movie based on the trilogy and the Hobbit is because the Tolkien Estate sold the rights to the movie adaptation back in the '70s. The Tolkien Estate it self HATES the idea of the movies. In fact, the Tolkien Estate had to fight to even get proceeds from the modern adaptation of the trilogy.


Is it the entire estate that hates them or just Christopher Tolkien? Because he won't live forever and the estate might have different ideas once he's gone.

I don't know if I'd really like any of the Valar vs. Morgoth stories done by Jackson. I don't like his treatment of the elves, except for Legolas. The high elves seem too stiff and ethereal.

Now, the rise and fall of Numenor would make quite a good movie. Men vs Sauron vs those darn immortals in Valinor.
 
2012-09-19 12:58:26 PM
Am I the only one thinking Thorin looks more like a half pint klingon than a dwarf?
 
2012-09-19 01:00:50 PM

BalugaJoe: I hope they do Silmarrion movie after this.


Unsure about this. The Ainulindalë is something I enjoyed very much and I have a very specific idea of how it would look. I don't think I want to see someone's interpretation of it.

And I would hate to see how bad they would botch the Luthien & Beren story. Yuck.
 
2012-09-19 01:03:30 PM

Modguy: The guy who, according to some popular theories, not only died but was reborn (technically possible for elves; they have a weird afterlife depending on which stage of development you're looking at) in Valinor, came BACK to Middle Earth, and saved Frodo from the Nazgul on the way to Rivendell.


Tolkien actually wrote about this, so it isn't just a popular theory, but canonically true. Although it did partially stem from Tolkien being somewhat disorganized and scatter brained and accidentally reusing the name in a draft.

sprawl15: Also, that guy is Glorfindel Ecthelion.

FTFY.


Yeah, although the two are easily confused. As they both killed, and were killed by, a Balrog during the Fall of Gondolin.
 
2012-09-19 01:06:13 PM

Copperbelly watersnake: Am I the only one thinking Thorin looks more like a half pint klingon than a dwarf?


No, I got a Gowron vibe from him too.
 
2012-09-19 01:10:54 PM

Copperbelly watersnake: Am I the only one thinking Thorin looks more like a half pint klingon than a dwarf?


images.wikia.com

Wot?
 
2012-09-19 01:13:07 PM
Are they not doing the spiders in the forrest...That was my favorite part.
 
2012-09-19 01:16:48 PM

born_yesterday: The Martian Manhandler: After The Hobbit, New Line is making a three movie series out of 'Farmer Giles of Ham'.

Is that the story where the farmer has to fend off a giant or something with a blunderbuss? Or did I imagine all that?

AntonChigger: Fall of Gondolin anyone? An ARMY of Balrogs and other more frightening things, plus that epic one on one duel where the prince stabs the balrog to death with his helmet before they both die.

MOAR of this!


img-fan.theonering.net

or even better... fricking fingolfin taking on Morgoth
images4.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2012-09-19 01:18:44 PM

thecpt: Are they not doing the spiders in the forrest...That was my favorite part.


Or you know, the whole bit about Lake Town. I'm sure they'll get that in too right?
 
2012-09-19 01:21:18 PM

thecpt: Are they not doing the spiders in the forrest...That was my favorite part.


I'm guessing they probably are. It's not like Weta's hurting for a budget, and Jackson's not exactly indifferent to the story.
 
2012-09-19 01:22:13 PM

born_yesterday: The Martian Manhandler: After The Hobbit, New Line is making a three movie series out of 'Farmer Giles of Ham'.

Is that the story where the farmer has to fend off a giant or something with a blunderbuss? Or did I imagine all that?


Yep. That's the one.
 
2012-09-19 01:24:43 PM

perigee: Copperbelly watersnake: Am I the only one thinking Thorin looks more like a half pint klingon than a dwarf?

Gowron.jpg

Wot?


i332.photobucket.com 

Give him a tan and draw some squiggles on his forehead...I could see it.
 
2012-09-19 01:27:20 PM
Why or why did Jackson leave out the Scouring of the Shire? That could have been an entire movie in itself.
 
2012-09-19 01:30:35 PM

badLogic: Why or why did Jackson leave out the Scouring of the Shire? That could have been an entire movie in itself.


That was the problem - it's a bad ending - you've had this huge epic adventure, climax, denouement and then you're off to another little mini-adventure.

It throws the pace completely out of whack
 
2012-09-19 01:33:01 PM
I'm looking forward to this, it will remind me of my college days. My brother and our buddies going to see LOTR, etc.

Is it just me or does some of the makeup look really really bad? The dwarves in Bilbo's place, just looks... so fake. Is that the right word? Like it's very obvious it's makeup.

/PLEASE 48FPS IN MY CITY
 
2012-09-19 01:46:20 PM

badLogic: Why or why did Jackson leave out the Scouring of the Shire? That could have been an entire movie in itself.


I would have loved to have seen it for a couple reasons:
1) It pays off the vision that Frodo has when he's visiting Galadriel about the Shire burning.
2) It shows that the Hobbits as a whole society grow and stand up for themselves. As the movie ends, the rest of the Shire is completely oblivious to any of the evils that exist outside its borders.

That being said, I can understand why it was cut. At that point in the film, yet another ending would have been just too much for a lot of people.
 
2012-09-19 01:46:56 PM

born_yesterday: Now that's what I'm Tolkien about

Ariel, naw!


Baggins, please
 
2012-09-19 01:49:25 PM
Damn you, GRCooper!
 
2012-09-19 01:52:25 PM
Damn you, GRCooper!

FWIW, I liked yours better.

/also, NEENER NEENER!
 
2012-09-19 01:54:47 PM

NeoCortex42: badLogic: Why or why did Jackson leave out the Scouring of the Shire? That could have been an entire movie in itself.

I would have loved to have seen it for a couple reasons:
1) It pays off the vision that Frodo has when he's visiting Galadriel about the Shire burning.
2) It shows that the Hobbits as a whole society grow and stand up for themselves. As the movie ends, the rest of the Shire is completely oblivious to any of the evils that exist outside its borders.

That being said, I can understand why it was cut. At that point in the film, yet another ending would have been just too much for a lot of people.


Not just that but in Jackson's telling of the story, leaving the Shire unchanged and out of this world-ecompassing conflict was the whole point of Frodo's quest, it's what he was willing to sacrifice his life for. To include the Scouring is to invalidate that sacrifice, to say essentially, that Frodo failed
 
2012-09-19 02:03:56 PM

NeoCortex42: badLogic: Why or why did Jackson leave out the Scouring of the Shire? That could have been an entire movie in itself.

I would have loved to have seen it for a couple reasons:
1) It pays off the vision that Frodo has when he's visiting Galadriel about the Shire burning.
2) It shows that the Hobbits as a whole society grow and stand up for themselves. As the movie ends, the rest of the Shire is completely oblivious to any of the evils that exist outside its borders.

That being said, I can understand why it was cut. At that point in the film, yet another ending would have been just too much for a lot of people.


Well, that and it wasn't clear in the movies that the hobbits were so vehemently anti-adventuring like they were in the books. There were pages and pages about proper hobbitry, yet in the movies the only non-fellowship hobbit that gets much screen time at all is Bilbo. It makes #2 kind of impossible in the world as presented.
 
2012-09-19 02:24:08 PM

you have pee hands: BalugaJoe: I hope they do Silmarrion movie after this.

Does that get good? The beginning felt like reading Old Testament genealogies and I quickly gave up.


No, that's about it.

The Silmarillion is essentially "The LOTR Appendices, the Novel". There are bits of story, but it's mostly setting and background and the writer's equivalent of DM notes. It was mostly published to get people to stop harassing Tolkien/his family for more LOTR shiat.
 
2012-09-19 02:30:26 PM

SavvyLemur: Wonder how many movies it would take pj to tell the wheel of time saga?


He'd pull a Jordan and die before finishing

/sniff, tug at dress
 
2012-09-19 02:33:04 PM
Changing the 48fps to a limited gimmick release in favor of just having 3D everywhere really killed my interest in the film.

FishyFred: Is anyone else getting a weird "Battlefield: Earth" vibe from the facial hair on display?


Yup.
 
2012-09-19 02:47:06 PM
I'll be in my bunk.

/Smaug will be EPIC!
 
2012-09-19 02:49:36 PM

Smeggy Smurf: SavvyLemur: Wonder how many movies it would take pj to tell the wheel of time saga?

He'd pull a Jordan and die before finishing

/sniff, tug at dress


Don't forget to yank your braid.
 
2012-09-19 02:56:21 PM
Character gallery

I think they did a good job, considering the cast amounts to an assload of dwarves. Everyonemanages to have a unique look.
 
2012-09-19 03:01:48 PM

Egoy3k: If they stay true to the source material. . .


Just like Jackson did with LOTR, right? Hahahaha.

[ohwaityoureserious.jpg]
 
2012-09-19 03:12:56 PM
Neat. I'll see it for Sylvester McCoy's appearance, and that's about it.
 
2012-09-19 03:22:32 PM

Snapper Carr: badLogic: Why or why did Jackson leave out the Scouring of the Shire? That could have been an entire movie in itself.

That was the problem - it's a bad ending - you've had this huge epic adventure, climax, denouement and then you're off to another little mini-adventure.

It throws the pace completely out of whack
because I care more about structure than story


FTFY
 
2012-09-19 03:33:43 PM

Andric: Snapper Carr: badLogic: Why or why did Jackson leave out the Scouring of the Shire? That could have been an entire movie in itself.

That was the problem - it's a bad ending - you've had this huge epic adventure, climax, denouement and then you're off to another little mini-adventure.

It throws the pace completely out of whack because I care more about structure than story

FTFY


They should've done the whole scouring of the shire after the credits like the little teasers in all the movies leading up to The Avengers.
 
2012-09-19 03:44:59 PM

born_yesterday: The Martian Manhandler: After The Hobbit, New Line is making a three movie series out of 'Farmer Giles of Ham'.

Is that the story where the farmer has to fend off a giant or something with a blunderbuss? Or did I imagine all that?

AntonChigger: Fall of Gondolin anyone? An ARMY of Balrogs and other more frightening things, plus that epic one on one duel where the prince stabs the balrog to death with his helmet before they both die.

MOAR of this!


What you really want is Battle of Unnumbered Tears. Epic battle between all of the Noldor, the Dwarves, and the 3 House of Men on one side and all of Morgoth's creatures including the first introduction of dragons. Allies getting their ass kicked and then Turgon shows up with 10,000 elves to kind of prevent total disaster. That could be movie 1. Plus you have the epic duel between Morgoth and Fingolfin that occurs when Fingolfin thinks that all is lost. Then you transition to Gondolin and its fall.
 
2012-09-19 04:25:05 PM

Big Beef Burrito: Lord Dimwit: Big Beef Burrito: Bossa Nova!

*stares*

Chevy Nova?


Clark Nova.
 
2012-09-19 04:39:12 PM

Andric: Snapper Carr: badLogic: Why or why did Jackson leave out the Scouring of the Shire? That could have been an entire movie in itself.

That was the problem - it's a bad ending - you've had this huge epic adventure, climax, denouement and then you're off to another little mini-adventure.

It throws the pace completely out of whack because I care more about structure than story

FTFY


I loved seeing that world brought to life, and for the most part I thought it was as epic as I had hoped. Two things have stuck in my craw for a long time now. 1. They (Jackson, Astin) turned Samwise into Samcries, and 2. Leaving out the Scouring of the Shire diminishes the ending of the journey.(Until the Grey Havens which I see as an epilogue)
Saruman get his, and the fellowship have to sort out the Shire. The naive hobbits that set out have been transformed by the journey and are hardened steel at that point. Whuppin' some ass is a fait accompli as the lads have already been to hell and back. And Sam gets to use Galadriel's magic dirt to restore their home and get back to growing and smokin' the Longbottom Leaf.
In a way, it's not until the Scouring of the Shire that their transformation is complete. This was the fight for their home, and after fighting in various factions and locales, the 4 were unified and proceeded to sort it all out with complete badassery post haste.
"Oi, who are you, and you better not make trouble."
"Listen, I just got back from the worst vacation ever, how about you STFU and taste some elven steel while we're at it"
/paraphrasing
 
2012-09-19 04:46:26 PM
Yeah, The Scouring of the Shire puts the 4 Hobbits, Merry and Pippin especially, into the ranks of the greatest beings to ever walk Middle Earth. Sam and Frodo, not withstanding since they are already legends at that point. Frodo infact, does not do very much in that chapter, being weakened from the quest.
 
2012-09-19 05:41:10 PM

SavvyLemur: Wonder how many movies it would take pj to tell the wheel of time saga?


Thanks but I don't want to sit through three hours of braid tugging.
 
2012-09-19 05:44:02 PM

dsmith42: born_yesterday: The Martian Manhandler: After The Hobbit, New Line is making a three movie series out of 'Farmer Giles of Ham'.

Is that the story where the farmer has to fend off a giant or something with a blunderbuss? Or did I imagine all that?

AntonChigger: Fall of Gondolin anyone? An ARMY of Balrogs and other more frightening things, plus that epic one on one duel where the prince stabs the balrog to death with his helmet before they both die.

MOAR of this!

What you really want is Battle of Unnumbered Tears. Epic battle between all of the Noldor, the Dwarves, and the 3 House of Men on one side and all of Morgoth's creatures including the first introduction of dragons. Allies getting their ass kicked and then Turgon shows up with 10,000 elves to kind of prevent total disaster. That could be movie 1. Plus you have the epic duel between Morgoth and Fingolfin that occurs when Fingolfin thinks that all is lost. Then you transition to Gondolin and its fall.


What about when Tulkas storms off from Valinor and wrestle's Morgoth to the ground?

TULKAMANIA OH YEAH BROTHER!
 
2012-09-19 05:52:09 PM

The Martian Manhandler: After The Hobbit, New Line is making a three movie series out of 'Farmer Giles of Ham'.


I'll be the first in line!

anokchan.com
 
2012-09-19 05:58:36 PM

By-Tor and the SnowDogmatix: Andric: Snapper Carr: badLogic: Why or why did Jackson leave out the Scouring of the Shire? That could have been an entire movie in itself.

That was the problem - it's a bad ending - you've had this huge epic adventure, climax, denouement and then you're off to another little mini-adventure.

It throws the pace completely out of whack because I care more about structure than story

FTFY

I loved seeing that world brought to life, and for the most part I thought it was as epic as I had hoped. Two things have stuck in my craw for a long time now. 1. They (Jackson, Astin) turned Samwise into Samcries, and 2. Leaving out the Scouring of the Shire diminishes the ending of the journey.(Until the Grey Havens which I see as an epilogue)
Saruman get his, and the fellowship have to sort out the Shire. The naive hobbits that set out have been transformed by the journey and are hardened steel at that point. Whuppin' some ass is a fait accompli as the lads have already been to hell and back. And Sam gets to use Galadriel's magic dirt to restore their home and get back to growing and smokin' the Longbottom Leaf.
In a way, it's not until the Scouring of the Shire that their transformation is complete. This was the fight for their home, and after fighting in various factions and locales, the 4 were unified and proceeded to sort it all out with complete badassery post haste.
"Oi, who are you, and you better not make trouble."
"Listen, I just got back from the worst vacation ever, how about you STFU and taste some elven steel while we're at it"
/paraphrasing


There was one other part of the movies that gave me indigestion. What Jackson did to Faramir. The most ironic line of the whole movie trilogy was Samwise stating during the battle in Osgiliath that "By all rights we should not even be here."
 
2012-09-19 05:59:33 PM

0Icky0: NeoCortex42: I'm still hoping we get at least a look at Smaug Galadriel's tits in the first film.


THIS so much!
 
2012-09-19 06:06:31 PM
There is one more part of the LOTR that was left out and should have been included: the barrow downs. It is the first test of the bravery of Frodo. And although Bombadil ultimately saves them, Frodo has a taste of what is to come with the Nazgul.
 
2012-09-19 06:14:58 PM

etherknot: thecpt: Are they not doing the spiders in the forrest...That was my favorite part.

Or you know, the whole bit about Lake Town. I'm sure they'll get that in too right?


I'm pretty sure that's in. Saw a clip of them floating in the barrels.
 
2012-09-19 06:37:01 PM

Titanius Anglesmith: Neat. I'll see it for Sylvester McCoy's appearance, and that's about it.



I hope he gets more to do besides pestering a hedgehog. And since Benedict Cumberbatch has been cast as The Necromancer, I think he will...
 
2012-09-19 06:41:34 PM
I for one am stoked to see this movie...er..these movies
 
2012-09-19 06:43:14 PM

phaseolus: Titanius Anglesmith: Neat. I'll see it for Sylvester McCoy's appearance, and that's about it.


I hope he gets more to do besides pestering a hedgehog. And since Benedict Cumberbatch has been cast as The Necromancer, I think he will...


Is Cumberbatch doing two roles? I know he's already doing Smaug.
 
2012-09-19 06:45:49 PM
Has it been determined yet if this book is going to be a trilogy of movies, or a trilogy of trilogies along with animations and Christmas specials and directors cuts of producers cuts?
 
2012-09-19 06:58:16 PM

NeoCortex42: Egoy3k: NeoCortex42: I'm still hoping we get at least a look at Smaug in the first film. I know they won't get anywhere near that point in the story, but they could have a prologue in the beginning or a teaser of him at the end of the movie.

They'll probably show him attacking the lonely mountain from a distance in a flashback. Thorin tells the whole party about being out hunting when it happens. If they stay true to the source material the unexpected party will be much too long and much too boring for a film audience without some flashbacks or other things to liven it up.

That's what the musical interlude is for. We all know what Bilbo Baggins hates.

Rev.K: BalugaJoe: I hope they do Silmarrion movie after this.

I have hoped for that for a long, long time.

I have to believe they will. Peter Jackson and LOTR content is nothing but money in the bank for New Line.

I don't see them stopping.

The only problem with the Silmarillion is that it's not as well known to general audiences. Even people that haven't read LOTR or The Hobbit have heard of it. It will also be a little more difficult to market since it's not just one cohesive story. It's a collection of tales.

I think it would probably work best as an HBO series. Maybe a post-Game of Thrones fantasy production.


I thought that the were putting parts from the Silmarillion that occurred during The Hobbit into the movie, which is why it's three parts.
 
2012-09-19 07:14:57 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: NeoCortex42: Egoy3k: NeoCortex42: I'm still hoping we get at least a look at Smaug in the first film. I know they won't get anywhere near that point in the story, but they could have a prologue in the beginning or a teaser of him at the end of the movie.

They'll probably show him attacking the lonely mountain from a distance in a flashback. Thorin tells the whole party about being out hunting when it happens. If they stay true to the source material the unexpected party will be much too long and much too boring for a film audience without some flashbacks or other things to liven it up.

That's what the musical interlude is for. We all know what Bilbo Baggins hates.

Rev.K: BalugaJoe: I hope they do Silmarrion movie after this.

I have hoped for that for a long, long time.

I have to believe they will. Peter Jackson and LOTR content is nothing but money in the bank for New Line.

I don't see them stopping.

The only problem with the Silmarillion is that it's not as well known to general audiences. Even people that haven't read LOTR or The Hobbit have heard of it. It will also be a little more difficult to market since it's not just one cohesive story. It's a collection of tales.

I think it would probably work best as an HBO series. Maybe a post-Game of Thrones fantasy production.

I thought that the were putting parts from the Silmarillion that occurred during The Hobbit into the movie, which is why it's three parts.


They're using stuff from the Silmarillian and appendices to cover what Gandalf was up to throughout the timeline of the Hobbit. There's still plenty of Silmarillian stories to tell.
 
2012-09-19 07:27:05 PM

thecpt: Are they not doing the spiders in the forrest...That was my favorite part.


The Hobbit is chopped into three movies by the way, so that's probably not in the first one
 
2012-09-19 08:09:23 PM

Rev.K: BalugaJoe: I hope they do Silmarrion movie after this.

I have hoped for that for a long, long time.

I have to believe they will. Peter Jackson and LOTR content is nothing but money in the bank for New Line.

I don't see them stopping.


They won't, or at least Peter Jackson won't. He doesn't have the intellectual property rights to the Silmarillion, which are still with Christopher Tolkien. Christopher Tolkien hates the Peter Jackson adaptations and would never have approved them if he had possessed the power. The only reason PJ and New Line could make LOTR and The Hobbit into movies is because the Tolkien estate (or perhaps Tolkien himself before his death, not sure) sold the movie rights to them a very long time ago.
 
2012-09-19 08:11:54 PM

0Icky0: NeoCortex42: I'm still hoping we get at least a look at Smaug's Galadriel's tits in the first film.


FTFY

/wait
//wat
 
2012-09-19 08:15:47 PM

Verrai: Tolkien hates the Peter Jackson adaptations and would never have approved them


Do you know any specific reason he hates them? Books should never be made into movies? The novels were bastardized to fit into 9 hours? Orlando Bloom is a silly name?
 
2012-09-19 08:24:28 PM

RoyBatty: Do you know any specific reason he hates them?


To my knowledge he's never seen them - he still maintains that the trilogy is wholly unsuitable to be adapted to film afaik.
 
2012-09-19 08:29:48 PM

NeoCortex42: Keizer_Ghidorah: NeoCortex42: Egoy3k: NeoCortex42: I'm still hoping we get at least a look at Smaug in the first film. I know they won't get anywhere near that point in the story, but they could have a prologue in the beginning or a teaser of him at the end of the movie.

They'll probably show him attacking the lonely mountain from a distance in a flashback. Thorin tells the whole party about being out hunting when it happens. If they stay true to the source material the unexpected party will be much too long and much too boring for a film audience without some flashbacks or other things to liven it up.

That's what the musical interlude is for. We all know what Bilbo Baggins hates.

Rev.K: BalugaJoe: I hope they do Silmarrion movie after this.

I have hoped for that for a long, long time.

I have to believe they will. Peter Jackson and LOTR content is nothing but money in the bank for New Line.

I don't see them stopping.

The only problem with the Silmarillion is that it's not as well known to general audiences. Even people that haven't read LOTR or The Hobbit have heard of it. It will also be a little more difficult to market since it's not just one cohesive story. It's a collection of tales.

I think it would probably work best as an HBO series. Maybe a post-Game of Thrones fantasy production.

I thought that the were putting parts from the Silmarillion that occurred during The Hobbit into the movie, which is why it's three parts.

They're using stuff from the Silmarillian and appendices to cover what Gandalf was up to throughout the timeline of the Hobbit. There's still plenty of Silmarillian stories to tell.


New Line doesn't have the rights to it, so it's believed to be appendices from LotR.

My guess is the first movie is the first few chapters including a lot of Hobbiton and Rivendell. They get captured, taken to Goblin Town, escape, riddle game and that's the movie. The second film probably starts with them being pursued by the worgs and goblins, rescued by eagles, Beorn, and Mirkwood with the spiders. Since that is kind of thin, I'm guessing the second film also has a lot of the White Council and the Necromancer story line. Then the third movie would be captured by the Wood Elves, escape down the river, Lake Town, Lonely Mountain, Smaug attacks, battle of 5 armies. Something like that. The third film will probably be way long.

Tyrone Slothrop: Big Beef Burrito: Lord Dimwit: Big Beef Burrito: Bossa Nova!

*stares*

Chevy Nova?

Clark Nova.



Clark Griswold.
 
2012-09-19 08:31:50 PM

RoyBatty: Has it been determined yet if this book is going to be a trilogy of movies, or a trilogy of trilogies along with animations and Christmas specials and directors cuts of producers cuts?


I was willing to reluctantly deal with splitting the book in to two movies... but three? I just don't see it. If you can't tell the story adequately in 6 hours I think you need to reconsider the whole project. It's definitely not going to be worth 60 bucks a person to see it in the theater. (cost of tickets, soda, and poopcorns)
 
2012-09-19 08:40:17 PM

andyofne: RoyBatty: Has it been determined yet if this book is going to be a trilogy of movies, or a trilogy of trilogies along with animations and Christmas specials and directors cuts of producers cuts?

I was willing to reluctantly deal with splitting the book in to two movies... but three? I just don't see it. If you can't tell the story adequately in 6 hours I think you need to reconsider the whole project. It's definitely not going to be worth 60 bucks a person to see it in the theater. (cost of tickets, soda, and poopcorns)



You need to start going to a new movie theater, pal.
 
2012-09-19 08:45:47 PM

Magorn: NeoCortex42: badLogic: Why or why did Jackson leave out the Scouring of the Shire? That could have been an entire movie in itself.

I would have loved to have seen it for a couple reasons:
1) It pays off the vision that Frodo has when he's visiting Galadriel about the Shire burning.
2) It shows that the Hobbits as a whole society grow and stand up for themselves. As the movie ends, the rest of the Shire is completely oblivious to any of the evils that exist outside its borders.

That being said, I can understand why it was cut. At that point in the film, yet another ending would have been just too much for a lot of people.

Not just that but in Jackson's telling of the story, leaving the Shire unchanged and out of this world-ecompassing conflict was the whole point of Frodo's quest, it's what he was willing to sacrifice his life for. To include the Scouring is to invalidate that sacrifice, to say essentially, that Frodo failed


It was the whole point of Frodo's quest according to Tolkien as well. The catch is that if you can never show the difference between the hobbits who left the shire (in the commentary they are told "this is your big time to act like hobbits") and the badasses who returned. Once you do this, it is easy to decide to make Aragon the new hero. Tolkien's Aragon was pretty much there to move the plot along, a towering example of what a king should be. Jackson had to tear him down, Aragon son of Arathon became Aragon son of Hamlet. Faramir had to be seen as less than where Aragon started (probably the most painful part of this whole transformation). Aragon eventually is seen as heroic, gets the elf-babe, and lives another 100 years of happiness.

Hard to tell if Frodo's betrayal of Sam was completely unforced or simply a way of keeping the heroic spotlight back on Aragon.
 
2012-09-19 10:01:41 PM

yet_another_wumpus: Magorn: NeoCortex42: badLogic: Why or why did Jackson leave out the Scouring of the Shire? That could have been an entire movie in itself.

I would have loved to have seen it for a couple reasons:
1) It pays off the vision that Frodo has when he's visiting Galadriel about the Shire burning.
2) It shows that the Hobbits as a whole society grow and stand up for themselves. As the movie ends, the rest of the Shire is completely oblivious to any of the evils that exist outside its borders.

That being said, I can understand why it was cut. At that point in the film, yet another ending would have been just too much for a lot of people.

Not just that but in Jackson's telling of the story, leaving the Shire unchanged and out of this world-ecompassing conflict was the whole point of Frodo's quest, it's what he was willing to sacrifice his life for. To include the Scouring is to invalidate that sacrifice, to say essentially, that Frodo failed

It was the whole point of Frodo's quest according to Tolkien as well. The catch is that if you can never show the difference between the hobbits who left the shire (in the commentary they are told "this is your big time to act like hobbits") and the badasses who returned. Once you do this, it is easy to decide to make Aragon the new hero. Tolkien's Aragon was pretty much there to move the plot along, a towering example of what a king should be. Jackson had to tear him down, Aragon son of Arathon became Aragon son of Hamlet. Faramir had to be seen as less than where Aragon started (probably the most painful part of this whole transformation). Aragon eventually is seen as heroic, gets the elf-babe, and lives another 100 years of happiness.

Hard to tell if Frodo's betrayal of Sam was completely unforced or simply a way of keeping the heroic spotlight back on Aragon.


What does a medieval kingdom in Spain have to do with Aragorn?
 
2012-09-19 10:06:48 PM
PJ messed up the dwarves for sure. Dwarves are supposed to be stocky. Thorin, Fili, Kili, and Bofur just look way to dispropotionate than how you picture dwarves. Then you have the characature ones, Nori and Ori. That pretty much speaks for itself. The others look good, but just too 'clean'. I thought dwarves were miners. They need more grit. Dirt deep in their skin, more ragged looking hair, some grime and wear on their clothing. These guys look like they were on some TLC makeover show before setting out on this adventure. Just trying to pinpoint why they don't look quite right, and its only my .02.
 
2012-09-19 10:40:35 PM

NeoCortex42: Is Cumberbatch doing two roles? I know he's already doing Smaug.


IMDB says yes.

chuggernaught: My guess is the first movie is the first few chapters including a lot of Hobbiton and Rivendell. They get captured, taken to Goblin Town, escape, riddle game and that's the movie. The second film probably starts with them being pursued by the worgs and goblins, rescued by eagles, Beorn, and Mirkwood with the spiders. Since that is kind of thin, I'm guessing the second film also has a lot of the White Council and the Necromancer story line. Then the third movie would be captured by the Wood Elves, escape down the river, Lake Town, Lonely Mountain, Smaug attacks, battle of 5 armies. Something like that. The third film will probably be way long.



IMDB's been wrong before, and since the release of 2 and 3 are a ways off they're probably going to play with the editing a bit based on the usual focus grouping 'n stuff, but if those cast lists prove to be accurate it appears that Bard shows up and Smaug dies in 2. So 3's either 45 minutes long or there will be a lot of Necromancer scenes and a reeeeealllly long Battle of Five Armies in that one.
 
2012-09-19 10:55:37 PM
TAKE MY MONEY!
 
2012-09-19 11:15:03 PM
i.imgur.com

How do Dwarves have time for adventure when they're so busy styling their facial hair?
 
2012-09-20 12:14:30 AM

Virtuoso80: [i.imgur.com image 850x637]

How do Dwarves have time for adventure when they're so busy styling their facial hair?


Is that a girl dwarf?
 
2012-09-20 01:26:10 AM

phaseolus: I hope he gets more to do besides pestering a hedgehog. And since Benedict Cumberbatch has been cast as The Necromancer, I think he will...


Frankly shocked I haven't seen that scene gif'd up with "JAWN FEELS!!1!!!" on it already.

/Because Martin Freeman is a hedgehog made of kittens
//I briefly wondered if it were some sort of deliberate in-joke
 
2012-09-20 01:51:13 AM

phaseolus: Titanius Anglesmith: Neat. I'll see it for Sylvester McCoy's appearance, and that's about it.


I hope he gets more to do besides pestering a hedgehog. And since Benedict Cumberbatch has been cast as The Necromancer, I think he will...


I thought he was cast as the voice of Smaug. Haven't heard anything about how the Necromancer will be portrayed. Given that they made a point of not personifying Sauron in LOTR (despite some early lean to do so) I would be surprised if they do in these films.
 
2012-09-20 07:19:14 AM

Virtuoso80: How do Dwarves have time for adventure when they're so busy styling their facial hair?


Honest, I ain't looking forward to this. Fantasy humour is rarely good, but at least in LOTR, there was little of it, and it temperered a pretty dark story. As this is going to be for kids, you know that there's going to be a lot more of it.

Also, I've seen Martin Freeman in a lot of stuff, and he's never struck me as a leading actor. He doesn't have the charisma IMO.
 
2012-09-20 08:36:26 AM
Virtuoso80

i.imgur.com

How do Dwarves have time for adventure when they're so busy styling their facial hair?

www.upl.co
 
2012-09-20 08:45:13 AM

phaseolus: IMDB's been wrong before, and since the release of 2 and 3 are a ways off they're probably going to play with the editing a bit based on the usual focus grouping 'n stuff, but if those cast lists prove to be accurate it appears that Bard shows up and Smaug dies in 2. So 3's either 45 minutes long or there will be a lot of Necromancer scenes and a reeeeealllly long Battle of Five Armies in that one.


IMDB is behind the times, when a third film was announced they just sort of assumed it would be after "2", instead of the extra Necromancer stuff being stuck into the second film (where it belongs) and a lot of re-editing so the Lonely Mountain bits are in the third movie. Believe there are some news stories and announcements on the web detailing some of the restructuring.

farkeruk: Honest, I ain't looking forward to this. Fantasy humour is rarely good, but at least in LOTR, there was little of it, and it temperered a pretty dark story. As this is going to be for kids, you know that there's going to be a lot more of it.

Also, I've seen Martin Freeman in a lot of stuff, and he's never struck me as a leading actor. He doesn't have the charisma IMO.


The general impression I've had is that they are trying to shift the tone to match LoTR a bit more. Which is consistent with some of the edits and revisions Tolkien wanted to do with The Hobbit later on, but was persuaded to keep them minor. Tolkien loved to tinker with his work.
 
2012-09-20 09:14:34 AM

you have pee hands: BalugaJoe: I hope they do Silmarrion movie after this.

Does that get good? The beginning felt like reading Old Testament genealogies and I quickly gave up.


It gets totally epic, but the writing style is dense and slow. Also, the elven nobility have names that are so similar, you really have to keep referring to the family trees in the appendix until you memorize then (Finwe, Olwe, Elwe...Fingon, Finarfin, Fingolfin, Feanor, Finrod...for God's sake guys, try something that doesn't start with an F...Ok...Meaglor, Maedhros, Meiglin....shiat.)
 
2012-09-20 10:25:48 AM

iron_city_ap: PJ messed up the dwarves for sure. Dwarves are supposed to be stocky. Thorin, Fili, Kili, and Bofur just look way to dispropotionate than how you picture dwarves. Then you have the characature ones, Nori and Ori. That pretty much speaks for itself. The others look good, but just too 'clean'. I thought dwarves were miners. They need more grit. Dirt deep in their skin, more ragged looking hair, some grime and wear on their clothing. These guys look like they were on some TLC makeover show before setting out on this adventure. Just trying to pinpoint why they don't look quite right, and its only my .02.


I see these dwarves as the 1%. They represent the disenfranchised members of the families of the rich dwarves killed by Smaug. Anyway, in the trailers we only got to see them in their "Let's go visit Gandalf and impress that wimpy Hobbit" gear, before the journey really starts.
 
2012-09-20 10:25:58 AM
Enough with the walking already!

The Hobbit - An Unexpected Journey

i.imgur.com

That word...
 
2012-09-20 02:44:10 PM

RoyBatty: Verrai: Tolkien hates the Peter Jackson adaptations and would never have approved them

Do you know any specific reason he hates them? Books should never be made into movies? The novels were bastardized to fit into 9 hours? Orlando Bloom is a silly name?


Basic summary of Christopher Tolkien's feelings here: http://aidanmoher.com/blog/2012/07/asides/christopher-tolkien-on-the-l ord-of-the-rings-film-trilogy/

Who knows whether his views reflect what his father would have thought. J.R.R. Tolkien's daughter Priscilla and his eldest son J.H.R. (who died in 2003) have expressed approval of PJ's adaptions, so who knows. (They were both uninvolved in the publications of The Silmarillion, The History of Middle Earth, The Children of Hurin, etc., the rights to which are solely with Christopher Tolkien.)
 
2012-09-20 04:38:19 PM

Verrai: RoyBatty: Verrai: Tolkien hates the Peter Jackson adaptations and would never have approved them

Do you know any specific reason he hates them? Books should never be made into movies? The novels were bastardized to fit into 9 hours? Orlando Bloom is a silly name?

Basic summary of Christopher Tolkien's feelings here: http://aidanmoher.com/blog/2012/07/asides/christopher-tolkien-on-the-l ord-of-the-rings-film-trilogy/

Who knows whether his views reflect what his father would have thought. J.R.R. Tolkien's daughter Priscilla and his eldest son J.H.R. (who died in 2003) have expressed approval of PJ's adaptions, so who knows. (They were both uninvolved in the publications of The Silmarillion, The History of Middle Earth, The Children of Hurin, etc., the rights to which are solely with Christopher Tolkien.)


Interesting. Thank you.
 
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