Dinner is served. Later, all.

Just get rid of the extra period before "com", which magically appeared.

/WTF is up with Fark today?

Maybe I am being remonstrated by admin for a serious threadjack.

/starts praying for mercy on knees in front of Monsternuts FARKsquirrel

starts praying for mercy on knees in front of Monsternuts FARKsquirrel

And yes, you can take that however you like, you sick farks.

People who said that the president was the reason the economy was so bad will now be saying that the president has nothing to do with the economy.

Yes, it's been said before, but I just like saying this.

Dorsai:
No no...we didn't help them invade Iran. But given that they *did* invade Iran, we preferred that they win instead of Iran. A subtle difference. Regardless, my point was that Iraq is a proven threat to its neighbors, as its invasion of Iran demonstrates.

Subtle, but not relevant. The bottom line is not only did we not stop them, we aided them (regarldess of at which point we did so). Thus we have no logical or ethical foothold to say we invaded them for being a threat to their neighbors, at least not in regards to Iran. Nada.

Yes, I even acknowledged that they threatened Israel DURING the Gulf War, as a response to our involvement. I specifically was wondering what threat they have posed to Israel SINCE then.

Launching missiles is more than a threat...

Yeah yeah, semantics...but you're ignoring my question..."I specifically was wondering what threat they have posed to Israel SINCE then".

Well, I know they allegedly gave money to the families of suicide bombers. While ethically questionable, that hardly amounts to financial support, unless you are suggesting the aid went beyond that (which I doubt, judging by the lack of sophistication of the methods employed by said terrorists).

This money is the point I was making. Chances are pretty good that the families don't actually get to bank all that cash.

Perhaps, perhaps not. But for your point to have weight you'd have to prove Saddam was knowingly funding actual attacks. To my knowledge this evidence doesn't exist (but if you have links to articles on the subject I'll read them).

I'm 'admitting' that we invaded partly over the active disruption of the oil trade, which is vital to the interests of the U.S. and the rest of the world. This isn't exactly a secret.

I'm just surprised, because a lot of folks to this day deny this, claiming it was all about "liberation" (sound familiar?). The overall impact it would have had is a topic of debate, as well.

Wow, that's a brilliant plan. And when a mushroom cloud appears over Tel Aviv, Seoul, or Tokyo, how will the UN 'handle' that?

Whoa there, strawman. You know you're overreacting here. Is North Korea a problem? Yes. The book on them isn't closed yet. They need to be handled. They should be getting more attention, but Bush is too busy with the fake war in...

Iraq? How could the nuke anyone? They didn't have the capability.

Bottom line: if those other nation's feel so threatened, let THEM make the case before WE fight it for them.

Yaos:People who said that the president was the reason the economy was so bad will now be saying that the president has nothing to do with the economy.

People who said that the president was not the reason the economy was so bad will now be saying that the president has everything to do with the economy.

It works both ways! Like a transformer!
*makes transforming sound*
"BER EERRR ER ER!!!!"

...only because the PS thread got cut yesterday, here it is!




...on topic as well!

Dorsai

4. Safety - Bush

My, oh, my. You've got a great sense of humor. Do you really think you're any safer now than you were before?

The economy may be growing... but it is not as strong as it was.

The average payroll income has decreased
The number of people of working age who do not have jobs (both collecting unemployment and not) comes out to about 8.5%; it should be noted that the labor department under the Bush administration changed the formula by which they calculated unemployment to only include those people who are collecting unemployment benefits, thereby narrowing the actual unemployment numbers.
According to most economists the US job market will have to create over 500,000 jobs a month between now and next November to be able to replace the all the jobs lost in this recession.

Lastly... most of those jobs that have been lost, have gone overseas and will never come back, thanks in part to our liberal free trade agreements with the rest of the world. The number of jobs going over seas is still growing, making the recovery of jobs in our nation that much more dificult and driving down wages of the majority of the labor force and middle management.

It's a brave new world... and it is going to suck.

Dorsai

4. Safety - Bush

My, oh, my. You've got a great sense of humor. Do you really think you're any safer now than you were before?

farkdog:
My, oh, my. You've got a great sense of humor. Do you really think you're any safer now than you were before?

We haven't been attacked since 9/11, have we?

(just kidding...just wanted to get the most common moronic reply out of the way before someone actually used it for real)

2003-11-25 06:53:46 PM Code_Archeologist
According to most economists the US job market will have to create over 500,000 jobs a month between now and next November to be able to replace the all the jobs lost in this recession.

Most economists? Name one.

Then explain how the math works behind this. If the recesssion has caused the loss of 2.7 million jobs, why is 500,000 per month for the next 12 months are needed to replace them. That's six million jobs.

MisterPickles, um, exactly what did they get away with? Iraq is only putting out 2 million barrels a day, a pretty paltry sum, and the economy is doing very well. Forgive me if I don't understand the meaning of your anti bush hatred that has no basis in fact.

Code_Archeologist

And you're wrong about how unemployment is calculated.

MrBigglesworth:
MisterPickles, um, exactly what did they get away with? Iraq is only putting out 2 million barrels a day, a pretty paltry sum, and the economy is doing very well. Forgive me if I don't understand the meaning of your anti bush hatred that has no basis in fact.

Just ran this through the wingnut online translator:

"I am going to pretend to be ignorant of all the common arguments against __________ and make you repeat them all to me. And even though I am claiming ignorance of these commeon arguments about __________, I am positive all of them have no basis."

DrToast Paul Krugman is one. Presently in the country we have to generate about 200,000 new jobs a month to keep up with the increasing number of working age adults. So while 2.7 million jobs have been lost in the last 18 months, 3.6 million more new workers have entered the job market (this takes into account . That comes to a total of 6.3 million jobs that need to be created. That comes to about 525,000 jobs a month just to make up the deficeit... and it does not even count the next 2.4 million young adults who are going to enter the job market in that time period.

In the past the creation of new jobs for young adults has not been a big problem because retiring workers created new jobs for young adults. But most companies have been offering their older workers early retirements and then not refilling the job after they leave.

One key reason for the large revision in GDP: a re-evaluation of the rate of change in business inventories in the quarter. Originally, the government said businesses cut inventories by $35.8 billion in the quarter, but that figure was trimmed to $14.1 billion in the latest report.



This manipulation of numbers seems Enron like. They were only off by $20 billion dollars, I wonder what deeper scrutiny would uncover.

It wouldn't be a surprise if Bush and Co. were doing this, Bush did have a hand in Harken which pretty much set the template for the whole Enron/Worldcom financial collapse.

I wonder if Bush is counting the deficeit as an asset to be subtracted from future earnings. If this kind of accounting shenanigans didn't work in the private sector why would anyone think that it would work in the public sector.

I call bs. My big screen TV just broke and I have to replace it. I'm buying a new one because I need a new one, not because I have confidence in the economy.

I think we can conclude that a lot of people's big screen tvs broke in the third quarter.

I think we can conclude that a lot of people here don't have a basic understanding of economics. Consumer confidence measures how well consumers feel about the economy. This relates to how much they spend. It is a very vital lagging economic indicator. Suppose if you thought we were heading into a major depression. You wouldn't buy the big screen, would you? No, you'd save your money becasue you might lose your job or get a pay cut.

*groan* I really should use the preview option more often

Xtremehkr
Way the hell up in this thread I asked similar questions in relation to that specific quote. I thought it looked fishy too, but since I never took an econ class and admit ignorance on how national economic statistics are generated, I requested from the economic elite of this forum an explanation. So far no one has replied.

Legato
Consumer confidence measures how well consumers feel about the economy.

By what means? Is it done via polls?

any how... off topic a bit

My company decided to hire somebody for a job opening... we ended up getting something like 5000 resumes in the first week. And there was no way we were going to able to get through them all and many of them seemed really desperate to get the job (which was kind of crappy). Every last person was really over qualified for it. So we were trying to think of ways to thin out the applicants... suggestions made that were eventually tossed.

Knife fights to the death.
Attaching elctrodes to their genetalia, and the one who ever lasted longest got the job.
Seeing who could eat the most stinging scorpions.

We eventually decided to demote somebody who was not well liked into the position and liquidate their previous job.

In Zoviet Prussia, Economy grows BUSH!

Why wouldn't we believe this administration when it says something?

The U.S. economy grew in the third quarter at an even faster pace than originally reported, the government said Tuesday.

Know your source.

Since there's no Medicare thread, I'll post this here. Once again, our politicians opt for the present good news without talking about the future bad news:

(from msnbc.com)

"THE LEGISLATION that won final congressional approval Tuesday would allow seniors to buy coverage at an estimated monthly premium of $35 for their prescription drugs beginning in three years. After they agreed to the monthly premiums and paid their first $250 in pharmacy bills, the coverage would kick in, paying 75 percent of their bills between $250 and $2,250.
After that, there would be no further coverage until beneficiaries drug bills for the year reached $5,100, leaving a gap of $2,850 that they would have to pay out of their own pockets. Above $5,100 the insurance would pick up roughly 95 percent of costs.
Those are the numbers supporters of the bill have used, with little mention that they would change in future years.
But after just one year, the Congressional Budget Office projects that seniors would see their $250 deductible and the $2,850 gap for which there is no coverage both jump 10 percent."

give me a couple of trillion dollars and ill show you a good time too

All it means is that growth in the 4th quarter will be a lot less than originally predicted. Not something for Bush to boast about.

YAY! Now my mutual fund's value just might outpace the losses incurred by its managers' skimming habits...

waddya mean unfetchable image?

dubya showed up in the preview!

4 more years!

Historians will record this as "Hell Day for the Democrat Party.":

US economy surges in third quarter,spending soars

US unemployment applications drop to lowest since 2001

Leading economic indicators up

U.S. consumer confidence jumps

Retailers Hiring Holiday Help

U.S. Unemployment Dips, New Jobs Double

Economy Surged in 3rd Quarter, Profits Up

Poll: Bush way ahead in Florida

A Republican-F*ckup-House and a Republican-Major F*uckup-for a President have presided over an orgy of tax cuts and benefit increases that, according to the bipartisan Concord Coalition, will not only boost this year's projected deficit but also add as much as $800 billion to the national debt over the next 10 years.

It comes as no surprise that the retards want to pop the champagne cork when news such as economic growth is positive after almost 3 years. It just goes to show that this administration has been that lame since it took office.

DrToast

And you're wrong about how unemployment is calculated.

And that 'method' of calculating unemployment numbers is the single most retarded method I have ever heard of.

You have to wonder if one other country does it that way and has the balls to call it a statistic. It's more of a moderate sample size survey for gods sake.

And just slightly above minimum earning wages working as a cashier at Wal*Mart doesn't qualify for "job growth".

And just slightly above minimum earning wages working as a cashier at Wal*Mart doesn't qualify for "job growth".

not if that's all the person is qualified to do. here in southern california the banana scanners are on strike because management actually has the nerve to expect them to pay for part of their health care - a whopping 5 bucks a month for singles and 20 bucks/month for married people. plus, the banana scanners make around $17-20/hour. i can't wait until walmart comes in and wipes them out. serves them right for not learning a skill.

did not

Did too!

They're just putting off the inevitable. Two years ago businesses downsized to make profits. One year ago business outsourced to the third world to make profits. This is profit by cost cutting. Consequently, less people have jobs. Less jobs means less money to spend. Meanwhile, everyone refinanced everything they own with lower interest loans. You can't keep doing that year after year, especially if the interest rates can't get any lower.

The future? The remaining savings dry up, interest rates go up and repayments with them, people stop buying and have stuff repossessed. Businesses are stuck with inventories they can't shift. They make no profits because they aren't making revenue and have no ways left to cut costs except for laying off anyone else they still have on the payroll. They go bankrupt.

More unemployed, less cash, more debt, less businesses, collapse of the economy. Add to that the fact that the world is fleeing from the US dollar to the Euro, taking their money out of the US, and causing the US dollar to decline, which it's doing every single day. Oh, and there's that massive budget deficit Bush is creating. The US economy is screwed. It's just taking a few years to shake out. The world will flee to the Euro, and the US will enjoy its second great depression. How sad.

There is only one solution. Invade as many countries as you can and take their natural resources while encouraging them not to trade in Euros. Seems like a plan. Hell, if it doesn't save the country at least it'll line your own pockets.

Now, where to start? Afghanistan has lots of gas. Let's go there. Oh, damn. Apparently it doesn't have much gas at all. Let's go to Iraq instead. They have oil. Where next? Somewhere with lots of natural resources and without nuclear weapons, of course.

Yup, Gnosis. Except with any luck it'll be a Dem in power to take the fall (notice how Hillary, the de facto head of the Dems, doesn't want to run?).

Hell, we all know that the Bush "tax deferral" was made so that the next president will be blamed for the high taxes 'cause we're all too stupid to realise the difference between a tax break and a tax deferral.

Tinian


Historians will record this as "Hell Day for the Democrat Party.":

Don't you mean "Heil Day for Bushler?"

Awwww snap!

/sorry, couldn't resist

And this: Retailers Hiring Holiday Help is just obvious and pointless.
What else are retailers going to do during an extended consumer frenzy, thin the herd of gift-buyers with machine guns positioned at the doors so they don't get overworked?

Just make sure you post the headline retailers firing holiday help when it comes out.

From one of Tinian's links:
The new employment is only a small fraction of the jobs that were added to the workforce during the boom years of the 1990s, analysts said Friday.
I guess what bush's admin does, Clinton's did better.
And besides, Bush is just trying to copycat, and he's doing a pathetic job of it.

/calm down, I'm just bored, drunk and up late. I promise to be more civil tomorrow.

US economy surges in third quarter,spending soars
What a sensationalist headline, and what else would one expect from a business magazine? Such magazines always sell better with a rising economy and happy earnings reports.

8.2% growth from such a low point is not a surge, it's more of a ripple -especially when one considers the massive boulder of deficit spending and the motor-home sized hail of tax cuts thrown into the economic pond which finally created it.

But we'll see what next month's slice of the economic timeline will bring.

Dozhdbog

Here's another link for you:

Say what you will, Bush is president until 2008

Cheers.

The beginning of the nutgraph says it all:
Call the man dim, call him corrupt, but call him president until 2008. George W. Bush certainly has vulnerabilities, but he's been smart enough to model himself on a man who pioneered the fine art of political image-making: Andrew Jackson. Democrats, as a result, are doomed.

With how things are transpiring, it's probably true. Soon the democratic party will either implode or go through a radical paradigm shift. Hopefully after that it will be the republican party's turn.

Cheers.

Oh man! that is the funniest article I've read in a while. And I love the fact that it equates Bush to Jackson -another corrupt, illiterate asstard.

Tinian...
you do know that article is roasting the current POTUS by association, don't you?

Everyone has to read that thing. It is funny as hell. And written by a Texan!