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(NBC Chicago)   Chicago's teacher strike ends; classes resume Wednesday   (nbcchicago.com) divider line 143
    More: News, Chicago, delegated voting, nbc chicago, Chicago Teachers Union, trier of fact, vacation time, confirmation, teacher strike  
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3963 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Sep 2012 at 8:46 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-18 08:48:17 PM  
www.reactiongifs.com
 
2012-09-18 08:48:32 PM  
I'm sure it's for the best.
 
2012-09-18 08:49:54 PM  
Thank dog, now I don't have to hear about it anymore.
 
2012-09-18 08:50:07 PM  
Xlation. Teachers unions in Illinois are non accountable dickbags. Because accountability is racist.
 
2012-09-18 08:50:18 PM  
So is it the same contract they turned down a week ago minus some donations to the union bosses?
 
2012-09-18 08:51:48 PM  
1. Who gives a fark? Fark isn't some borough in Chicago
2. No snark in headline makes me a bit sad
 
2012-09-18 08:53:18 PM  

cman: 1. Who gives a fark? Fark isn't some borough in Chicago
2. No snark in headline makes me a bit sad


This. I posted all I cared to contribute to the thread.
 
2012-09-18 08:53:45 PM  

Lt. Cheese Weasel: Xlation. Teachers unions in Illinois are non accountable dickbags. Because accountability is racist.


Yes. Let's not forget the REAL victims.
 
2012-09-18 08:53:48 PM  

cman: 1. Who gives a fark? Fark isn't some borough in Chicago
2. No snark in headline makes me a bit sad


Chicago doesn't have boroughs.
 
2012-09-18 08:53:53 PM  

TheGreatGazoo: So is it the same contract they turned down a week ago minus some donations to the union bosses?


They're getting a 17.6% raise over the next 4 years and a rehire pool for laid off teachers. In exchange, they're now going to be evaluated based on the performance of their students on standardized tests.
 
2012-09-18 08:54:45 PM  

Ikam: cman: 1. Who gives a fark? Fark isn't some borough in Chicago
2. No snark in headline makes me a bit sad

Chicago doesn't have boroughs.


That is besides the point
 
2012-09-18 08:54:52 PM  
i306.photobucket.com
 
2012-09-18 08:55:11 PM  
Now get to work on the farking NFL referees.
 
2012-09-18 08:55:52 PM  
Now if we could just end that other strike...

www.cbc.ca
 
2012-09-18 08:56:30 PM  
Supposedly, they have a law in this state that states that, in towns with over 0.5 x 10^6 population or greater, teachers can only sue over compensation and job conditions.

//Yup,
//Chicago only.
 
2012-09-18 09:00:17 PM  
sue strike
 
2012-09-18 09:06:31 PM  
Glorious socialist paradise. All is good here. Look over there! Mittens misquoted the Annoited one!

imageshack.us
 
2012-09-18 09:06:45 PM  
My parents were teachers, which is why I'd never put up with the shiat they had to. Being a telemarketer seems to mean dealing with assholes less than dealing with parents.
 
2012-09-18 09:12:50 PM  
Dammit!!!
 
2012-09-18 09:17:37 PM  
3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-09-18 09:17:38 PM  
:(

musicman6724.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-09-18 09:18:03 PM  
encrypted-tbn0.google.com
 
2012-09-18 09:22:28 PM  
woody.typepad.com
 
2012-09-18 09:26:43 PM  

Kenny B: [i306.photobucket.com image 430x519]


Silly Jesus: [3.bp.blogspot.com image 504x353]


smitty04: [encrypted-tbn0.google.com image 241x209]


Wow. All of you, what color is the sky in your bubble in your world?
 
2012-09-18 09:26:54 PM  
Such a good job the wealthy have done pitting the middle class against itself.

/class civil war?
 
2012-09-18 09:28:17 PM  
Since every post here seems to be from once side, anyone wanna link to a balanced article on the impasse?
 
2012-09-18 09:29:01 PM  
Newsflash: If you're in a job that a million other people can do and you can be replaced virtually overnight, then you're not going to be that successful when you ask for a big raise.
 
2012-09-18 09:29:53 PM  

howdoibegin: Since every post here seems to be from once side, anyone wanna link to a balanced article on the impasse?


Popcorn Johnny: They're getting a 17.6% raise over the next 4 years and a rehire pool for laid off teachers. In exchange, they're now going to be evaluated based on the performance of their students on standardized tests.

 
2012-09-18 09:32:00 PM  
www.survivinggrady.com
Awesome, totally awesome.
 
2012-09-18 09:33:17 PM  

CavalierEternal: Now if we could just end that other strike...

[www.cbc.ca image 620x349]


Guess who doesn't know the difference between a strike and a lockout.
 
2012-09-18 09:37:08 PM  
In one sentence, we get this from school board president David Vitale:

"This will transform the way we run the district to the benefit of teachers, not just to our kids."

the next sentence, we get this from Mayor Rahm Emanuel:

' It means returning Chicago's schools to their primary purpose: educating children.'

And to insult everyone's intelligence, the next sentence he says this:

"It means a new day and a new direction for the Chicago Public Schools, and [with] this contract we gave our children a seat at the table,"
 
2012-09-18 09:37:52 PM  

smitty04: encrypted-tbn0.google.com


So standing up for yourself to your employer is bad?
 
2012-09-18 09:39:46 PM  
I'm amazed the strike lasted as long as it did. If I had to negotiate with Jabba the Hutt, I'd cave almost immediately to union demands.
 
2012-09-18 09:40:50 PM  

Silly Jesus: [woody.typepad.com image 560x560]


Oh, the lie is up to $76k a year now? It's $67k, according to 2011 salary figures, and before getting all huffy about a 16% increase, it's over 4 years, which cumulatively is about 3.5% per year, making it not much more than a COLA.
 
2012-09-18 09:42:04 PM  

GoldSpider: CavalierEternal: Now if we could just end that other strike...

[www.cbc.ca image 620x349]

Guess who doesn't know the difference between a strike and a lockout.


they don't have a contract because they not only want a raise, they want a huge one.
there are 119 referees. they make on average $32k a month for 4 months for part time unusually weekend work.
they are also demanding a 5-11% raise (depending on seniority) each for each over the next 5 years.
the NFL isn't locking them out, they just aren't interested in giving an equity stake to a handful of part time workers. this is a strike.
 
2012-09-18 09:44:00 PM  

relcec: GoldSpider: CavalierEternal: Now if we could just end that other strike...

[www.cbc.ca image 620x349]

Guess who doesn't know the difference between a strike and a lockout.

they don't have a contract because they not only want a raise, they want a huge one.
there are 119 referees. they make on average $32k a month for 4 months for part time unusually weekend work.
they are also demanding a 5-11% raise (depending on seniority) each for each over the next 5 years.
the NFL isn't locking them out, they just aren't interested in giving an equity stake to a handful of part time workers. this is a strike.


And after the massive sh*t show the replacement refs put on across the league this weekend and on national television last night, they've got all of the leverage they need to get those demands met.
 
2012-09-18 09:44:01 PM  

mutterfark: Such a good job the wealthy have done pitting the middle class against itself.

/class civil war?


They really have done a great job. We could raise taxes on the wealthy to pay teachers more (maybe even attracting better ones due to the higher pay), bit that would be class warfare, apparently. Apparently the top 1% needs an even greater share of wealth and income.
 
2012-09-18 09:44:39 PM  

ImpendingCynic: Silly Jesus: [woody.typepad.com image 560x560]

Oh, the lie is up to $76k a year now? It's $67k, according to 2011 salary figures, and before getting all huffy about a 16% increase, it's over 4 years, which cumulatively is about 3.5% per year, making it not much more than a COLA.


FOR THE CHILDREN
 
2012-09-18 09:44:42 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: They're getting a 17.6% raise over the next 4 years and a rehire pool for laid off teachers. In exchange, they're now going to be evaluated based on the performance of their students on standardized tests.


If they know they are getting a 17.6% raise over the next 4 years, what is the point of evaluating their performance? I read the "Summary Term Sheet" in TFA, and bullet item 3 says "No Merit Pay."

I am all for teachers making more money. In fact, when people point out the "average salary" I generally think it should be higher. The problem I have is that basic economics teaches us that if you completely divorce reward from performance, performance will decrease.
 
2012-09-18 09:46:47 PM  

FarkLiter: If they know they are getting a 17.6% raise over the next 4 years, what is the point of evaluating their performance?


People who are guaranteed raises can still be terminated for bad performance.
 
2012-09-18 09:47:10 PM  

FarkLiter: Popcorn Johnny: They're getting a 17.6% raise over the next 4 years and a rehire pool for laid off teachers. In exchange, they're now going to be evaluated based on the performance of their students on standardized tests.

If they know they are getting a 17.6% raise over the next 4 years, what is the point of evaluating their performance? I read the "Summary Term Sheet" in TFA, and bullet item 3 says "No Merit Pay."

I am all for teachers making more money. In fact, when people point out the "average salary" I generally think it should be higher. The problem I have is that basic economics teaches us that if you completely divorce reward from performance, performance will decrease.


True, but the metrics for performance as dictated by NCLB are vague and ridiculous. I seem recall reading or hearing somewhere that recently states have found that they can opt out of NCLB.

I'm all for national education standards, but NCLB isn't it. Worthless standardised tests, punitive school closings, and catering to the lowest common denominator are certainly not helping.
 
2012-09-18 09:47:28 PM  

cman: Ikam: cman: 1. Who gives a fark? Fark isn't some borough in Chicago
2. No snark in headline makes me a bit sad

Chicago doesn't have boroughs.

That is besides the point


The fact that you call it a borough by default tells me that you are probably from the North East. When the endless NYC threads come pouring in we don't start complaining, "Who gives a fark? Fark isn't some neighborhood in New York".

Let us have this one.

/ I don't give a fark about your borough, district, parish, quarter, district, precinct, ward, or diocese
// I will concede that deep dish is not actually pizza
/// New York pizza is shiatty pizza
//// Casserole
 
2012-09-18 09:54:09 PM  

pxlboy: I'm all for national education standards, but NCLB isn't it. Worthless standardised tests, punitive school closings, and catering to the lowest common denominator are certainly not helping.


No argument here. I also am amazed that teachers performances are done based on standardized tests that are not administered every year. (At least, they weren't when I was in school, not that long ago.. maybe they have started now.) When I was in school, I was tested early.. 1st or second grade. I was tested again in 5th grade, before I went to middle school. If I tested badly, was it my 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or 5th grade teachers fault?

I know that our current system of testing is flawed and needs to be changed. Giving up and just giving everyone the same salary, though, based on nothing but showing up to work every day and not failing in some very public and embarrassing way is no better.
 
2012-09-18 09:55:02 PM  

CavalierEternal: Now if we could just end that other strike...

[www.cbc.ca image 620x349]


Lockout, not a strike.
 
2012-09-18 09:55:04 PM  
A Midwest city ends it's teacher strike and it's considered national news? lol wut
 
2012-09-18 09:55:55 PM  
Oh, so now the entire world is going to be doing nothing but educating to the fine, fine, standards of 'not completely mentally retarded and managed not to eat the frog today' aka standardized tests.

While a good idea in concept, they actually mean that teachers do nothing but teach the test material, and test taking strategy, ignoring that pesky 'education' thing almost entirely. While administrators and districts jerrymander and send home and manipulate the system for all its worth to maximize money.

The stupid kids get kicked out, the smart ones get ignored, and the average ones don't learn anything. But damnit, Head master Jimmy farkbag gets his budget money and can buy the school shiatkickers some new jerseys and trillion dollar scoreboards.
 
2012-09-18 09:56:19 PM  
I'm glad it's over. Someone's gotta teach those South Side niglets how to prepare for a life of welfare, parole, incarceration, and out-of-wedlock births.  Mugshots! Drugs! Rims!!!
 
2012-09-18 09:56:38 PM  

RogermcAllen: cman: Ikam: cman: 1. Who gives a fark? Fark isn't some borough in Chicago
2. No snark in headline makes me a bit sad

Chicago doesn't have boroughs.

That is besides the point

The fact that you call it a borough by default tells me that you are probably from the North East. When the endless NYC threads come pouring in we don't start complaining, "Who gives a fark? Fark isn't some neighborhood in New York".

Let us have this one.

/ I don't give a fark about your borough, district, parish, quarter, district, precinct, ward, or diocese
// I will concede that deep dish is not actually pizza
/// New York pizza is shiatty pizza
//// Casserole


Yes sir. I am a Mainer. Although we do not have boroughs in Maine, our big brother MA has them, and we visit our big brother occasionally.
 
2012-09-18 09:57:04 PM  

FarkLiter: Popcorn Johnny: They're getting a 17.6% raise over the next 4 years and a rehire pool for laid off teachers. In exchange, they're now going to be evaluated based on the performance of their students on standardized tests.

If they know they are getting a 17.6% raise over the next 4 years, what is the point of evaluating their performance? I read the "Summary Term Sheet" in TFA, and bullet item 3 says "No Merit Pay."

I am all for teachers making more money. In fact, when people point out the "average salary" I generally think it should be higher. The problem I have is that basic economics teaches us that if you completely divorce reward from performance, performance will decrease.


How do wr grade teacher performance? Just standardized tests? What about teachers who deal with at risk or learning disabled students?
 
2012-09-18 09:57:53 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: FarkLiter: If they know they are getting a 17.6% raise over the next 4 years, what is the point of evaluating their performance?

People who are guaranteed raises can still be terminated for bad performance.


Yes, but you give them zero incentive to put in any extra effort. If their kids meet minimum standards, or if they all test in the top 1% of the world, the teacher gets the same reward.
 
2012-09-18 09:58:29 PM  

cman: RogermcAllen: cman: Ikam: cman: 1. Who gives a fark? Fark isn't some borough in Chicago
2. No snark in headline makes me a bit sad

Chicago doesn't have boroughs.

That is besides the point

The fact that you call it a borough by default tells me that you are probably from the North East. When the endless NYC threads come pouring in we don't start complaining, "Who gives a fark? Fark isn't some neighborhood in New York".

Let us have this one.

/ I don't give a fark about your borough, district, parish, quarter, district, precinct, ward, or diocese
// I will concede that deep dish is not actually pizza
/// New York pizza is shiatty pizza
//// Casserole

Yes sir. I am a Mainer. Although we do not have boroughs in Maine, our big brother MA has them, and we visit our big brother occasionally.


Whoops. My bad. MA doesnt have actual boroughs, they just have a shiatton of names ending with it.
 
2012-09-18 10:00:46 PM  
blogs.sfweekly.com
i.ytimg.com
Summer is officially over for Chicago's crotchfruit, let us all give praises.
 
2012-09-18 10:01:24 PM  
All of Chicago's dead voters who vote twice in each election rejoice!

Thank god we pay so much money so America makes the most smart students!

Just ask all of your European friends how smartest we are!
 
2012-09-18 10:03:32 PM  

CavalierEternal: relcec: GoldSpider: CavalierEternal: Now if we could just end that other strike...

[www.cbc.ca image 620x349]

Guess who doesn't know the difference between a strike and a lockout.

they don't have a contract because they not only want a raise, they want a huge one.
there are 119 referees. they make on average $32k a month for 4 months for part time unusually weekend work.
they are also demanding a 5-11% raise (depending on seniority) each for each over the next 5 years.
the NFL isn't locking them out, they just aren't interested in giving an equity stake to a handful of part time workers. this is a strike.

And after the massive sh*t show the replacement refs put on across the league this weekend and on national television last night, they've got all of the leverage they need to get those demands met.


they are awful and slow, while the regular refs were just plane awful. the real refs gave a win to the steelers two years back by missing a fumble and recovery at miami. if you don't remember last year they f*cked up a game in a huge way almost every week last year. personally, I don't care if the refs never come back. the old refs gave us such wonderful ditties like deciding that what used to be a touchdown catch for 50 years no longer was (calvin johnson td catch) and going forward like this made sense in order to cover up for one bad call. they came up with a new rule all by themselves about a second act or some shiat.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81a77070/Contro v ersial-call-on-Megatron-non-TD
/I for one haven't forgotten how bad you actually are real refs.
 
2012-09-18 10:04:09 PM  

Baryogenesis: FarkLiter: Popcorn Johnny: They're getting a 17.6% raise over the next 4 years and a rehire pool for laid off teachers. In exchange, they're now going to be evaluated based on the performance of their students on standardized tests.

If they know they are getting a 17.6% raise over the next 4 years, what is the point of evaluating their performance? I read the "Summary Term Sheet" in TFA, and bullet item 3 says "No Merit Pay."

I am all for teachers making more money. In fact, when people point out the "average salary" I generally think it should be higher. The problem I have is that basic economics teaches us that if you completely divorce reward from performance, performance will decrease.

How do wr grade teacher performance? Just standardized tests? What about teachers who deal with at risk or learning disabled students?


Teachers are largely evaluated the same way lots of people are. Through the opinions of supervisors and peers and the product they put out. If you're really interested the evaluation forms are right here. This strike wasn't about if they used standardized testing for teacher evaluations but how heavily they were weighted in the overall assessment.
 
2012-09-18 10:05:01 PM  

Baryogenesis: FarkLiter: Popcorn Johnny: They're getting a 17.6% raise over the next 4 years and a rehire pool for laid off teachers. In exchange, they're now going to be evaluated based on the performance of their students on standardized tests.

If they know they are getting a 17.6% raise over the next 4 years, what is the point of evaluating their performance? I read the "Summary Term Sheet" in TFA, and bullet item 3 says "No Merit Pay."

I am all for teachers making more money. In fact, when people point out the "average salary" I generally think it should be higher. The problem I have is that basic economics teaches us that if you completely divorce reward from performance, performance will decrease.

How do wr grade teacher performance? Just standardized tests? What about teachers who deal with at risk or learning disabled students?


Shut up with the reason and logic. All kids are equal, so all test scores should be equal. The only explanation is crappy teachers - not pre-existing sociological conditions or generational poverty and implicit segregation.
 
2012-09-18 10:05:55 PM  

cman: RogermcAllen: cman: Ikam: cman: 1. Who gives a fark? Fark isn't some borough in Chicago
2. No snark in headline makes me a bit sad

Chicago doesn't have boroughs.

That is besides the point

The fact that you call it a borough by default tells me that you are probably from the North East. When the endless NYC threads come pouring in we don't start complaining, "Who gives a fark? Fark isn't some neighborhood in New York".

Let us have this one.

/ I don't give a fark about your borough, district, parish, quarter, district, precinct, ward, or diocese
// I will concede that deep dish is not actually pizza
/// New York pizza is shiatty pizza
//// Casserole

Yes sir. I am a Mainer. Although we do not have boroughs in Maine, our big brother MA has them, and we visit our big brother occasionally.


We do?

/life-long Bostonian
 
2012-09-18 10:07:15 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: FarkLiter: If they know they are getting a 17.6% raise over the next 4 years, what is the point of evaluating their performance?

People who are guaranteed raises can still be terminated for bad performance.


"Which will only make you work just hard enough not to get fired." Bob
 
2012-09-18 10:10:04 PM  

relcec: CavalierEternal: relcec: GoldSpider: CavalierEternal: Now if we could just end that other strike...

[www.cbc.ca image 620x349]

Guess who doesn't know the difference between a strike and a lockout.

they don't have a contract because they not only want a raise, they want a huge one.
there are 119 referees. they make on average $32k a month for 4 months for part time unusually weekend work.
they are also demanding a 5-11% raise (depending on seniority) each for each over the next 5 years.
the NFL isn't locking them out, they just aren't interested in giving an equity stake to a handful of part time workers. this is a strike.

And after the massive sh*t show the replacement refs put on across the league this weekend and on national television last night, they've got all of the leverage they need to get those demands met.

they are awful and slow, while the regular refs were just plane awful. the real refs gave a win to the steelers two years back by missing a fumble and recovery at miami. if you don't remember last year they f*cked up a game in a huge way almost every week last year. personally, I don't care if the refs never come back. the old refs gave us such wonderful ditties like deciding that what used to be a touchdown catch for 50 years no longer was (calvin johnson td catch) and going forward like this made sense in order to cover up for one bad call. they came up with a new rule all by themselves about a second act or some shiat.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81a77070/Contro v ersial-call-on-Megatron-non-TD
/I for one haven't forgotten how bad you actually are real refs.


The real refs are bad but blown calls happen, it's inevitable. The key difference is the fundamental lack of understanding these refs seem to have about the rules of the NFL.

The Browns-Bengals game Sunday is a perfect example. Bengals had the ball with 3:20 left in the first half. Dalton throws an incomplete pass to AJ Green. The refs allowed to clock to tick off for 40 seconds after a goddamn incomplete pass without ever noticing. That's not a blown call, that's f*cking up the basic rules of football.
 
2012-09-18 10:15:41 PM  

CavalierEternal: The Browns-Bengals game Sunday is a perfect example. Bengals had the ball with 3:20 left in the first half. Dalton throws an incomplete pass to AJ Green. The refs allowed to clock to tick off for 40 seconds after a goddamn incomplete pass without ever noticing. That's not a blown call, that's f*cking up the basic rules of football.


wait, you think the refs are starting and stopping the clock? chirst, you are dumb.
 
2012-09-18 10:17:36 PM  
Remember, though, it was about the kids, who will now get an absolutely dynamite education with everybody being happy and all. Remember, tenure and pay issues are foremost on the minds of Chicago's youth, the cream of our educational system.
 
2012-09-18 10:20:13 PM  

relcec: CavalierEternal: The Browns-Bengals game Sunday is a perfect example. Bengals had the ball with 3:20 left in the first half. Dalton throws an incomplete pass to AJ Green. The refs allowed to clock to tick off for 40 seconds after a goddamn incomplete pass without ever noticing. That's not a blown call, that's f*cking up the basic rules of football.

wait, you think the refs are starting and stopping the clock? chirst, you are dumb.


In about two decades of watching football, I've never seen that happen until this past weekend, which tells me that the judge assigned to monitoring the clock severely f*cked up at his job while the rest of the referees, who have the right to realize a clock error and order it to be rewound, neglected to do so.
 
2012-09-18 10:22:44 PM  
We did it for the children.
 
2012-09-18 10:22:55 PM  

relcec: wait, you think the refs are starting and stopping the clock? chirst, you are dumb.


The refs do start and stop the clock, by using whistles and arm motions.
 
2012-09-18 10:23:59 PM  

kroonermanblack: Oh, so now the entire world is going to be doing nothing but educating to the fine, fine, standards of 'not completely mentally retarded and managed not to eat the frog today' aka standardized tests.

While a good idea in concept, they actually mean that teachers do nothing but teach the test material, and test taking strategy, ignoring that pesky 'education' thing almost entirely. While administrators and districts jerrymander and send home and manipulate the system for all its worth to maximize money.

The stupid kids get kicked out, the smart ones get ignored, and the average ones don't learn anything. But damnit, Head master Jimmy farkbag gets his budget money and can buy the school shiatkickers some new jerseys and trillion dollar scoreboards.


Even better, some genius decided that we need continuous improvement.

If you had 90% passing rate this year you, you better damn well have 92% next year. What's that, you think 92% is impossible? Not if you try harder.

I don't understand, you think it is unfair that the school down the road only needs an 80% passing rate? Well that's because they did really well. Last year they only had a 75% pass rate last year. With a 5% improvement, they are really outperforming you.

Oh, and by the way, did I forget to mention that your school scored so highly that we bussed in some of the trouble/special needs kids from around the district so that they don't bring down pass rates in our other schools.

Continuous ______ is unsustainable.
 
2012-09-18 10:25:25 PM  

CavalierEternal: relcec: CavalierEternal: The Browns-Bengals game Sunday is a perfect example. Bengals had the ball with 3:20 left in the first half. Dalton throws an incomplete pass to AJ Green. The refs allowed to clock to tick off for 40 seconds after a goddamn incomplete pass without ever noticing. That's not a blown call, that's f*cking up the basic rules of football.

wait, you think the refs are starting and stopping the clock? chirst, you are dumb.

In about two decades of watching football, I've never seen that happen until this past weekend, which tells me that the judge assigned to monitoring the clock severely f*cked up at his job while the rest of the referees, who have the right to realize a clock error and order it to be rewound, neglected to do so.


but wait, you actually think they start and stop the clock. you sad they didn't understand the rules of football, as if they had only known the clock stops on an incomplete pass this wouldn't have happened. are you full of shiat, or just a moron?
 
2012-09-18 10:26:49 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: relcec: wait, you think the refs are starting and stopping the clock? chirst, you are dumb.

The refs do start and stop the clock, by using whistles and arm motions.


ahh, motion sensing equipment. like a kinect. so how long have they been in possession of this equipment?
 
2012-09-18 10:27:55 PM  

relcec: CavalierEternal: relcec: CavalierEternal: The Browns-Bengals game Sunday is a perfect example. Bengals had the ball with 3:20 left in the first half. Dalton throws an incomplete pass to AJ Green. The refs allowed to clock to tick off for 40 seconds after a goddamn incomplete pass without ever noticing. That's not a blown call, that's f*cking up the basic rules of football.

wait, you think the refs are starting and stopping the clock? chirst, you are dumb.

In about two decades of watching football, I've never seen that happen until this past weekend, which tells me that the judge assigned to monitoring the clock severely f*cked up at his job while the rest of the referees, who have the right to realize a clock error and order it to be rewound, neglected to do so.

but wait, you actually think they start and stop the clock. you sad they didn't understand the rules of football, as if they had only known the clock stops on an incomplete pass this wouldn't have happened. are you full of shiat, or just a moron?


They failed to follow the basic rule of "signal the clock operator to stop the clock" that's supposed to happen after every goddamned incomplete pass, of which there are many. That's what I'm trying to get through to you but you seem more concerned with insulting people who disagree with you.
 
2012-09-18 10:29:58 PM  

CavalierEternal: relcec:
They failed to follow the basic rule of "signal the clock operator to stop the clock" that's supposed to happen after every goddamned incomplete pass, of which there are many. That's what I'm trying to get through to you but you seem more concerned with insulting people who disagree with you.


you thought they started and stopped the clock. you said if they just understood the rules this wouldn't happen.
you are an idiot so I called you an idiot.
 
2012-09-18 10:30:48 PM  

relcec: ahh, motion sensing equipment.


It's the job of the clock operator to watch the officials as to when to start and stop the clock. Ever notice the ref moving his arm in a circle? That's a sign to start the clock.
 
2012-09-18 10:30:58 PM  
All you people biatching about this should keep your kids home and educate them yourselves. That'll teach those greedy, overpaid teachers!
 
2012-09-18 10:31:13 PM  

relcec: CavalierEternal: relcec:
They failed to follow the basic rule of "signal the clock operator to stop the clock" that's supposed to happen after every goddamned incomplete pass, of which there are many. That's what I'm trying to get through to you but you seem more concerned with insulting people who disagree with you.

you thought they started and stopped the clock. you said if they just understood the rules this wouldn't happen.
you are an idiot so I called you an idiot.


THE CLOCK STARTS AND STOPS ON THEIR SIGNAL. IF THEY HAD THE PROPER TRAINING OF NFL REFEREES IN REGARD TO THAT RULE, THESE ERRORS WOULD NOT HAPPEN.

Jesus Christ, it's like talking to a plate of french toast.
 
2012-09-18 10:31:33 PM  

relcec: . you said if they just understood the rules this wouldn't happen.


If the refs understood the rules the clock would've been stopped.
 
2012-09-18 10:32:54 PM  

Old enough to know better: All you people biatching about this should keep your kids home and educate them yourselves. That'll teach those greedy, overpaid teachers!


I personally like the "They get a pension and I don't!" people. So, no one should have better employment terms than some people have and those same people think it's ok with their employers throwing them down a flight of stairs. After all, they just tripped.
 
2012-09-18 10:34:01 PM  

Old enough to know better: All you people biatching about this should keep your kids home and educate them yourselves. That'll teach those greedy, overpaid teachers!


I don't care how much they make or what their personal motivation is, but when you try to hide behind the very kids you're farking over (and, based on test scores, have been for a very long time), pardon me if I call a spade a spade and tell you you're full of shiat.
 
2012-09-18 10:34:20 PM  

andersoncouncil42: Kenny B: [i306.photobucket.com image 430x519]

Silly Jesus: [3.bp.blogspot.com image 504x353]

smitty04: [encrypted-tbn0.google.com image 241x209]

Wow. All of you, what color is the sky in your bubble in your world?


Rahm supporters are often over-the-top.
 
2012-09-18 10:34:47 PM  
This threat is positively trolltastic! Apparently, teachers are right up there with fatties on the Fark shiat list.
 
2012-09-18 10:36:16 PM  
thread... FTFM
 
2012-09-18 10:36:20 PM  

Adolf Oliver Nipples: but when you try to hide behind the very kids you're farking over


It's not the teachers farking the students over. When you have kids attending schools that by any objective measure should be razed to the ground and rebuilt from scratch, to say nothing of things like textbooks, the teachers aren't the ones to blame. Also having teachers teach to the test instead of actually teaching isn't helping. Standardized tests, all of them, including the ACT and SAT, need to be done away with.
 
2012-09-18 10:38:19 PM  

WhyteRaven74: Old enough to know better: All you people biatching about this should keep your kids home and educate them yourselves. That'll teach those greedy, overpaid teachers!

I personally like the "They get a pension and I don't!" people. So, no one should have better employment terms than some people have and those same people think it's ok with their employers throwing them down a flight of stairs. After all, they just tripped.


I like the "Teachers have to pay into social security every pay cycle but they can't collect social security because they have a pension" along with the "Teachers accept lower wages because they have a solid pension to take care of them in retirement". It's really a hoot when the state raids the pension and takes away their well earned retirement income.
 
2012-09-18 10:38:43 PM  

CavalierEternal: relcec: CavalierEternal: relcec:
They failed to follow the basic rule of "signal the clock operator to stop the clock" that's supposed to happen after every goddamned incomplete pass, of which there are many. That's what I'm trying to get through to you but you seem more concerned with insulting people who disagree with you.

you thought they started and stopped the clock. you said if they just understood the rules this wouldn't happen.
you are an idiot so I called you an idiot.

THE CLOCK STARTS AND STOPS ON THEIR SIGNAL. IF THEY HAD THE PROPER TRAINING OF NFL REFEREES IN REGARD TO THAT RULE, THESE ERRORS WOULD NOT HAPPEN.

Jesus Christ, it's like talking to a plate of french toast.


I want French toast. You should get me some.

As for the demands of the teachers: if they can demonstrate that they deserve the money, I'm all for them getting a pay increase. That is, "If you pay us x number of dollars, you see y return on your investment."

Ultimately, that's what it boils down to. Education is just that, an investment. You don't get your money back for 12 years, but you're investing in your human capital as a society. Given what's going on with our educational system, I'm not sure whether more teacher pay is the answer. It could be in some instances, but facilities and raw numbers of teachers need to be put first.
 
2012-09-18 10:39:36 PM  

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Baryogenesis: FarkLiter: Popcorn Johnny: They're getting a 17.6% raise over the next 4 years and a rehire pool for laid off teachers. In exchange, they're now going to be evaluated based on the performance of their students on standardized tests.

If they know they are getting a 17.6% raise over the next 4 years, what is the point of evaluating their performance? I read the "Summary Term Sheet" in TFA, and bullet item 3 says "No Merit Pay."

I am all for teachers making more money. In fact, when people point out the "average salary" I generally think it should be higher. The problem I have is that basic economics teaches us that if you completely divorce reward from performance, performance will decrease.

How do wr grade teacher performance? Just standardized tests? What about teachers who deal with at risk or learning disabled students?

Shut up with the reason and logic. All kids are equal, so all test scores should be equal. The only explanation is crappy teachers - not pre-existing sociological conditions or generational poverty and implicit segregation.


Hypocrite! No logic!
 
2012-09-18 10:40:17 PM  

WhyteRaven74: Old enough to know better: All you people biatching about this should keep your kids home and educate them yourselves. That'll teach those greedy, overpaid teachers!

I personally like the "They get a pension and I don't!" people. So, no one should have better employment terms than some people have and those same people think it's ok with their employers throwing them down a flight of stairs. After all, they just tripped.


We pay into a pension, so we don't get social security, just for the record.
 
2012-09-18 10:41:12 PM  

CavalierEternal: relcec: CavalierEternal: relcec:
They failed to follow the basic rule of "signal the clock operator to stop the clock" that's supposed to happen after every goddamned incomplete pass, of which there are many. That's what I'm trying to get through to you but you seem more concerned with insulting people who disagree with you.

you thought they started and stopped the clock. you said if they just understood the rules this wouldn't happen.
you are an idiot so I called you an idiot.

THE CLOCK STARTS AND STOPS ON THEIR SIGNAL. IF THEY HAD THE PROPER TRAINING OF NFL REFEREES IN REGARD TO THAT RULE, THESE ERRORS WOULD NOT HAPPEN.

Jesus Christ, it's like talking to a plate of french toast.


so you are now saying they didn't give the proper signal? you saw them not give the signal?
oh don't go trying to finesse this thing now. we all know you have no clue about anything other than media said new refs are bad, media said new refs are bad, media said new refs are bad.
 
2012-09-18 10:44:20 PM  

WhyteRaven74: Adolf Oliver Nipples: but when you try to hide behind the very kids you're farking over

It's not the teachers farking the students over. When you have kids attending schools that by any objective measure should be razed to the ground and rebuilt from scratch, to say nothing of things like textbooks, the teachers aren't the ones to blame. Also having teachers teach to the test instead of actually teaching isn't helping. Standardized tests, all of them, including the ACT and SAT, need to be done away with.


So, the government, with money they don't have to buy textbooks they can't afford and fix schools they can't maintain, has to give the teachers a pay raise. for the children.

Oh, and I like your ideas of no standards. "Can you read, Johnny? Oh, well, you graduate anyway, there are no standards here!" So-called "teaching to the test" is a problem, but that's a separate issue from something as basic as reading or simple math, something a significant number of kids cannot do. There is no child so disadvantaged that they can't get a book or learn how to add. Not one.
 
2012-09-18 10:44:42 PM  
It's as if thousands of young voices cried out, "I'M SHOT!" -The End

/Chicago
//BANG!
 
2012-09-18 10:45:25 PM  

relcec: CavalierEternal: relcec: CavalierEternal: relcec:
They failed to follow the basic rule of "signal the clock operator to stop the clock" that's supposed to happen after every goddamned incomplete pass, of which there are many. That's what I'm trying to get through to you but you seem more concerned with insulting people who disagree with you.

you thought they started and stopped the clock. you said if they just understood the rules this wouldn't happen.
you are an idiot so I called you an idiot.

THE CLOCK STARTS AND STOPS ON THEIR SIGNAL. IF THEY HAD THE PROPER TRAINING OF NFL REFEREES IN REGARD TO THAT RULE, THESE ERRORS WOULD NOT HAPPEN.

Jesus Christ, it's like talking to a plate of french toast.

so you are now saying they didn't give the proper signal? you saw them not give the signal?
oh don't go trying to finesse this thing now. we all know you have no clue about anything other than media said new refs are bad, media said new refs are bad, media said new refs are bad.


That's what I've been saying this whole time! Christ, I was watching the game. The signal wasn't there, the clock ran and the worst part is that it wasn't even the only time it happened in that game. There have been at least three or four people in this thread trying to explain that to you but you seem to be totally incapable of comprehending a simple concept like, "referee signals clock operator, clock operator stops/starts clock".
 
2012-09-18 10:46:02 PM  

RogermcAllen: It's really a hoot when the state raids the pension and takes away their well earned retirement income.


There are some states where that can't happen. Among them? Wisconsin. Care to guess why Walker has it in for the teachers?

Dreamless: We pay into a pension, so we don't get social security, just for the record.


I know :) I have several friends that are public school teachers, including a few in the Chicago public schools fittingly enough. And to add my own thought to that, I find the idea that someone doesn't get Social Security just because they paid into a pension rather insane.
 
2012-09-18 10:47:41 PM  

Adolf Oliver Nipples: with money they don't have


Maybe we should look at why the government doesn't have money. Couldn't possibly be the consequences of 30 years of stagnant wages could it?

something a significant number of kids cannot do.

Well when you have teachers spending more time worried about test results than results in the classroom...
 
2012-09-18 10:50:00 PM  
CavalierEternal, you weren't kidding me about the gigaDerp factor of this thread. Broke my damn meter.
 
2012-09-18 10:54:02 PM  

IBreakdance2NIN: CavalierEternal, you weren't kidding me about the gigaDerp factor of this thread. Broke my damn meter.


It's like debating a spitting camel with Down's syndrome.
 
2012-09-18 10:55:51 PM  
school days
school days
dear old golden rule days
readn and riting and rithmetic

taught to the tune of a hickory stick. 
the good old days
 
2012-09-18 10:58:25 PM  

howdoibegin: Since every post here seems to be from once side, anyone wanna link to a balanced article on the impasse?


No. The Chicago Teacher's Union, and most teacher unions, are corrupt and celebrate mediocrity. Many are mouth breathing idiots, too.

In fact, I'll post a link that provides evidence for this claim. I mean, the movie does. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waiting_for_%22Superman%22
 
2012-09-18 11:07:56 PM  
NO ONE CARES HOW MUCH YOU PAY A DAYCARE

/Homeschooled.
At 14 I had a P.S.E.C. (That means I could have earned a Bachelor's) level Science, 16th Grade level English, 14th Grade level Social Studies, 13th Grade level Health (mandated by Montana) and an 8th Grade Mathematics score.

Public Schools are meant for compulsory societal engineering. Nothing else.
 
2012-09-18 11:12:06 PM  
From a CPS teacher who's the son of one of my mom's friends:


WHAT'S HAPPENING IN CHICAGO RIGHT NOW:
A NOTE TO MY FORMER STUDENTS IN LOS ANGELES
by Michael Rusin, History Teacher

I think that it's important that I share a bit about what's happening in Chicago right now. For the past two days, Chicago teachers have gone on strike for a variety of issues. Unfortunately, media reporting on the lead-up to the strike itself was terribly ignorant of the major
issues--especially considering negotiations have been happening for 9 months-- and was in large part biased against the Chicago Teacher's Union. Read about this issue in the news media with a careful eye: this is a strike about the future of public education in the U.S.

Here are some of the reasons we are striking in no particular order:

1. COMPENSATION

No one wants to hear about teacher compensation. However, Chicago teachers were mandated to work a longer school day and year-- for high schools: about 20 minutes longer than the typical LA school, and about 10 more days a year. This longer day and year came one year after the school board decided not to pay teachers a 4% raise that they were CONTRACTUALLY obligated to pay, and then literally the next month turned around and started offering raises to individual teachers and schools that "volunteered" to work a longer day. Importantly, while teachers are extraordinarily upset about the way the longer day and year played out, the Union and District have almost come to an agreement over teacher compensation. If you've read about it in the news, it has been reported as a 16% raise over the course of 4 years. However, the actual raise they are offering is 2.25% a year for four years. If you do the math that adds up to 9%. Where are they getting the other 7%? No one knows, but the mayor said it to reporters, so now that's what's getting reported. However, I want to emphasize that compensation will be worked out and is not currently the primary issue in dispute.

2. TEACHER EVALUATION

Illinois passed a state law requiring [only the city of] Chicago to implement a new evaluation system. It required that the union and district work together to create it, but that if they could not come to an agreement-- the district could just implement its own final offer. This has led to an evaluation system that has some good aspects: it does a much better job of creating an objective criteria for "good" teaching. But it also has some terrible aspects. For example, the current rubrics would rate teachers on a 1 - 4 scale (with 4 being the highest). Teachers would then be rated 1 - 4 on four different components and those scores would be averaged together to create an overall evaluation score. Teachers that receive the lowest rating two years in a row not only can be fired, but they will lose their teaching license. While teachers agree that schools should have a right to fire "bad" teachers, the current rubrics state that if you score a 2 (considered basic) on all four components, then you are actually rated a 1. As a comparison, imagine that I graded an essay on 4 components and scored each component as a "C", but then made the overall essay grade a "D". Doesn't make sense, right?

Another problem with the system is that the criteria for category 4 (distinguished) teaching describe good teaching, but they are so stringent that they are almost impossible to achieve. For example, in the component on classroom management, if you have a student that disrupts class, and you deal with the disruption to get the student back on track, you are rated as a 3. You can only be rated as a 4 if you never have any students that are disruptive. This assumes that teachers have total control over all students at all times. To me, effectively dealing with disruptive students IS distinguished teaching, especially when working with students that are not intrinsically motivated. There are myriad other issues with the current proposals, but [the primary issue is that] teachers see a future where the state/district will demand that teacher pay be tied to evaluations. If we allow the district to create an evaluation system that is rigged to rate all teachers as mediocre, it will allow them to justify freezing or cutting our salaries, or even firing teachers whenever they like.

In addition, the district wants to tie teacher evaluation to student standardized testing. To do this, in my school, of the 10 additional days in the school year, 7 of them will be used to give students standardized tests. For 11th graders, this test is the practice and real ACT, so it is significant. For students in other grades, they are all practice tests. So, teachers will be evaluated on student test scores that will mean nothing to the majority of students. Also, the district asked teachers to create what they call "Performance Tasks," which are standardized tests to be given in an individual classroom. While teachers helped to develop these tasks, the district method of grading the tasks is designed to rate all teachers as mediocre. The grading system ranks students on a 0 - 3 scale (with 3 being the highest). Teachers will be evaluated based on whether or not students move up in the 0-3 scale. The US history task (which is similar to a DBQ) is graded out of 30 points such that a 28-30 counts as a 3, an 18-27 counts as a 2, a 8-17 counts as a 1, and below that is a 0. In this case, a student could score an 18 the first time he takes the test, and a 26 the next time he takes it (improving from a 60% to an 87%) but for the purposes of evaluating his teacher that student will not be considered "improved."

3. TEACHER RECALL

The school district plans to close 100 "underperforming" schools over the next several years and replace them with new schools and charters. This is nothing new in Chicago. For the past 8 years, CPS has closed over 100 schools, fired all the teachers, and re-opened them as new schools and charters. To the surprise of no one, the vast majority of the new schools and charters that were opened scored THE SAME as the previous schools. Then why close neighborhood schools and force kids to travel to different areas of the city to go to school...? To fire experienced teachers that earn a higher salary, and replace them with inexperienced teachers that make less money. Since this is the goal of these new schools, is it any surprise that they are not outperforming the old schools? The Union wants a system in place so that if the district decides to close schools, the teachers that get fired (through no fault of their own) have the first opportunity to get the new jobs that open.

4. CLASS SIZE

CPS wants to avoid putting language in a contract that limits the amount of students in a class. Instead, they want to have the right to raise class sizes if they need to. The Union wants language in a contract that limits class sizes to 28 kids per class.

5. WORKING CONDITIONS

Lots of schools in Chicago are ill equipped for the 21st century. They lack libraries, computer labs, and even air conditioning. For example, last week it was 94 degrees in my classroom. This was not an anomaly [and yes, teachers buy and bring in fans]! This happens regularly when it is close to summer time. The Union wants the district to fix these problems.

There are other issues that we are fighting for, but I need to stop there. If you read most articles about the strike you will not read in any detail about the reasons why Chicago teachers are unhappy about compensation, evaluation, and recall - so please consider this and SHARE what I wrote. We are on strike because we refuse to accept a system where the mayor can systematically lower scores on teacher evaluations in order to justify the privatization of education. 
 
2012-09-18 11:13:48 PM  

Bhasayate: howdoibegin: Since every post here seems to be from once side, anyone wanna link to a balanced article on the impasse?

No. The Chicago Teacher's Union, and most teacher unions, are corrupt and celebrate mediocrity. Many are mouth breathing idiots, too.

In fact, I'll post a link that provides evidence for this claim. I mean, the movie does. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waiting_for_%22Superman%22


No it doesn't.

I am continually amazed that farkers, who generally see that things like private prisons are a bad idea or see how obvious it is when oil companies doctor up research against environmental regulations, totally buy that privatizing schools is a good idea based on the word of corporations trying to get a piece of the public education pie.
 
2012-09-18 11:17:31 PM  

Jedekai: NO ONE CARES HOW MUCH YOU PAY A DAYCARE

/Homeschooled.
At 14 I had a P.S.E.C. (That means I could have earned a Bachelor's) level Science, 16th Grade level English, 14th Grade level Social Studies, 13th Grade level Health (mandated by Montana) and an 8th Grade Mathematics score.

Public Schools are meant for compulsory societal engineering. Nothing else.


I am going to have to invoke Poe's law on this one.

Is Jedekai a beautiful woman with giant teeth, was he a red-shirt freshmen on the home school basketball team requiring him to take 13th grade health as a super-senior, do people in Montana go to high school for 4 more years that everyone else in the US? These questions demand answers!!!!
 
2012-09-18 11:21:10 PM  
images1.wikia.nocookie.net 
The President of CTA during negotiations
 
2012-09-18 11:23:00 PM  
oops CTU... CTA... same fat greedy people
 
2012-09-18 11:25:36 PM  

WhyteRaven74: Maybe we should look at why the government doesn't have money. Couldn't possibly be the consequences of 30 years of stagnant wages could it?


Might be the consequence of a Congress filled with people whose educational success was measured by standardized testing instead of the ability to actually process information.
 
2012-09-18 11:36:10 PM  

andersoncouncil42: Kenny B: [i306.photobucket.com image 430x519]

Silly Jesus: [3.bp.blogspot.com image 504x353]

smitty04: [encrypted-tbn0.google.com image 241x209]

Wow. All of you, what color is the sky in your bubble in your world?


What is Azure Alex? Seriously. Teaching is a very honorable profession. I don't think teachers pitching a hissy fit in the streets is setting a very good example for the kids. The lesson learned here is "Mob Rules". There was a time when Unions played a vital role in the workplace. Now it's more of a bully pulpit.
 
2012-09-18 11:41:47 PM  

odinsposse: Bhasayate: howdoibegin: Since every post here seems to be from once side, anyone wanna link to a balanced article on the impasse?

No. The Chicago Teacher's Union, and most teacher unions, are corrupt and celebrate mediocrity. Many are mouth breathing idiots, too.

In fact, I'll post a link that provides evidence for this claim. I mean, the movie does. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waiting_for_%22Superman%22

No it doesn't.

I am continually amazed that farkers, who generally see that things like private prisons are a bad idea or see how obvious it is when oil companies doctor up research against environmental regulations, totally buy that privatizing schools is a good idea based on the word of corporations trying to get a piece of the public education pie.


I don't mean to endorse everything in that movie. I'm not saying charter schools are all that and the only way to fix the public school system. I'm saying the public system is massively farked. It's entirely possible to fix, I suppose.

I'm not against private education though. It can be good, it can be bad, of course.
 
2012-09-18 11:43:25 PM  

Kenny B: I don't think teachers pitching a hissy fit in the streets is setting a very good example for the kids.


Response to increases in school days and the school year without renegotiation of pay as well as a school board vote to cancel a contractual pay increase is a hissy fit?

Kenny B: There was a time when Unions played a vital role in the workplace. Now it's more of a bully pulpit.


What did unions previously do to play such a vital role against employers who draw out negotiations and appear unwilling to negotiate in good faith?
 
2012-09-18 11:44:26 PM  

Kenny B: andersoncouncil42: Kenny B: [i306.photobucket.com image 430x519]

Silly Jesus: [3.bp.blogspot.com image 504x353]

smitty04: [encrypted-tbn0.google.com image 241x209]

Wow. All of you, what color is the sky in your bubble in your world?

What is Azure Alex? Seriously. Teaching is a very honorable profession. I don't think teachers pitching a hissy fit in the streets is setting a very good example for the kids. The lesson learned here is "Mob Rules". There was a time when Unions played a vital role in the workplace. Now it's more of a bully pulpit.


It'll teach 'em to 'go on strike' for better tasting school pizza, more fun-time in class, and no long division.

www.cartoonstock.com
 
2012-09-18 11:46:10 PM  

Kenny B: [i306.photobucket.com image 430x519]


A billionaire politician that was born into it has been saying the same thing to the unions.

/ OMG that union boss made 500 g's, meanwhile dudes that have been fired for running their companies into the ground are given tens of millions of dollars in golden parachutes but that's just fine.
 
2012-09-19 12:11:31 AM  
I'd have hung all of them the first Friday after they walked out the door. Fark unions.
 
2012-09-19 12:19:40 AM  

kroonermanblack: Oh, so now the entire world is going to be doing nothing but educating to the fine, fine, standards of 'not completely mentally retarded and managed not to eat the frog today' aka standardized tests.

While a good idea in concept, they actually mean that teachers do nothing but teach the test material, and test taking strategy, ignoring that pesky 'education' thing almost entirely. While administrators and districts jerrymander and send home and manipulate the system for all its worth to maximize money.

The stupid kids get kicked out, the smart ones get ignored, and the average ones don't learn anything. But damnit, Head master Jimmy farkbag gets his budget money and can buy the school shiatkickers some new jerseys and trillion dollar scoreboards.


You are correct. It's all about the test. If a kid has passing grades then barely fails the test. The kid is faced with taking it over. If not met to their "standards" the second time they have to repeat the same school grade. Their main concern is the test. Not their overall grade for the year.
 
2012-09-19 12:21:49 AM  
Are CPS teachers required to live in the City of Chicago? If so, consider that a teeny studio in a neighborhood that's not a war zone will run at least $700. And it doesn't include parking, so enjoy your ride on the Red Line. And is it so much to ask for air conditioning in the 21st century?
 
2012-09-19 12:31:24 AM  

ImpendingCynic: Oh, the lie is up to $76k a year now? It's $67k, according to 2011 salary figures, and before getting all huffy about a 16% increase, it's over 4 years, which cumulatively is about 3.5% per year, making it not much more than a COLA.


Honestly, the teachers are not very well paid considering their level of education.

www.washingtonpost.com

$65k for a master's degree and 5 years experience? I also have a master's degree - my starting salary fresh from college was higher than $65k, and I broke $90k within two years.

The teachers' average compensation is well above median only because their average education is well above median - when you factor their degrees into account, those salaries aren't all that great.
 
2012-09-19 12:31:31 AM  

cmb53208: Are CPS teachers required to live in the City of Chicago? If so, consider that a teeny studio in a neighborhood that's not a war zone will run at least $700. And it doesn't include parking, so enjoy your ride on the Red Line. And is it so much to ask for air conditioning in the 21st century?


I'm not sure about CPS teachers, but I know that other city employees are required to live in the city as I've had a few interviews for city positions over the course of my professional life and that was discussed (I do). That being said you can find nice apartments that are not studios for reasonable prices in decent and safe (but not trendy) areas of the city for under $1000 a month. I should know, I"ve been living in them for most of my adult life.

/haven't lived off of the Red LIne almost 15 years.
//still doesn't have parking included in my rent, damnit.
 
2012-09-19 12:35:07 AM  

relcec: CavalierEternal: The Browns-Bengals game Sunday is a perfect example. Bengals had the ball with 3:20 left in the first half. Dalton throws an incomplete pass to AJ Green. The refs allowed to clock to tick off for 40 seconds after a goddamn incomplete pass without ever noticing. That's not a blown call, that's f*cking up the basic rules of football.

wait, you think the refs are starting and stopping the clock? chirst, you are dumb.


The Line Judge is, at the professional level. So, it's not the ref, but it's one of the replacement officials. In other leagues it can be the field judge, but in the NFL the LJ is the one who watches the clock.
 
2012-09-19 12:45:19 AM  

mutterfark: Such a good job the wealthy have done pitting the middle class against itself.

/class civil war?


I think Kenny B's has got to be the most infuriating. Unions fought for decades for the provisions that built the vast mid-century middle-class. That prosperity resulted from wide-spread unionization and the greater equability in pay that unions ensured. Now shills like that cartoonist can draw something blaming the only real social actor out there trying to maintain safe, dignified work with decent pay in the US for the sorry state bankers have left our public finances in and deunionization has left the US worker in and plenty of folks will actually buy it. Unions helped to raise millions into the Middle class after the War, and now, at a time when after 30 years of hoarding every productivity-driven profit gain in their own pockets the rich in this country are at their very richest, the Birchers have the children and grand-children, and great-grand-children of those millions blaming the unions for it.
 
2012-09-19 12:50:45 AM  
70k/ year? and they want more? Are you people farking retarded?

Illinois is broke. this is the reason.

Teachers can be replaced by tvs and xboxes with greater efficiency.

union douchbags.

//I make 12k last year. OWN a house. never missed a payment.
///It's called living within your means farktards.
 
2012-09-19 12:54:24 AM  

invisbob: this is the reason.


No it's not.
 
2012-09-19 12:56:34 AM  

WhyteRaven74: invisbob: this is the reason.

No it's not.


SO the countless unions asking for greater pensions and wages over the past 20 years hasn't lead to the worst pension crises ever?
 
2012-09-19 01:00:32 AM  

Bhasayate: odinsposse: Bhasayate: howdoibegin: Since every post here seems to be from once side, anyone wanna link to a balanced article on the impasse?

No. The Chicago Teacher's Union, and most teacher unions, are corrupt and celebrate mediocrity. Many are mouth breathing idiots, too.

In fact, I'll post a link that provides evidence for this claim. I mean, the movie does. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waiting_for_%22Superman%22

No it doesn't.

I am continually amazed that farkers, who generally see that things like private prisons are a bad idea or see how obvious it is when oil companies doctor up research against environmental regulations, totally buy that privatizing schools is a good idea based on the word of corporations trying to get a piece of the public education pie.

I don't mean to endorse everything in that movie. I'm not saying charter schools are all that and the only way to fix the public school system. I'm saying the public system is massively farked. It's entirely possible to fix, I suppose.

I'm not against private education though. It can be good, it can be bad, of course.


Public education is farked because the middle class is farked. Schools aren't just teachers. Politicians, administrators, parents, students, and community members all have a huge impact on schools. It's easy and popular to attack teachers because it's a simple answer to a problem that's actually intertwined with the stagnation of the American middle class. No, we don't have to look at ourselves. Just get rid of those evil unions (and don't even think that maybe working with or reforming unions would be a viable option) and it will fix everything somehow.
 
2012-09-19 01:06:51 AM  

invisbob:

//I make 12k last year. OWN a house. never missed a payment.
///It's called living within your means farktards.


Go ahead and live on $12,000 in Chicago, I dare ya. Hope you like a refrigerator box under the Kennedy Expressway
 
2012-09-19 01:08:32 AM  

invisbob: SO the countless unions asking for greater pensions and wages over the past 20 years hasn't lead to the worst pension crises ever?


Mismanagement of funds, 30 years of stagnant wages eroding the tax base....
 
2012-09-19 01:09:11 AM  

cmb53208: Go ahead and live on $12,000 in Chicago, I dare ya. Hope you like a refrigerator box under the Kennedy Expressway


I personally love the contempt for a teacher making more but bring up someone like Mitt and how dare you question what he makes?
 
2012-09-19 01:14:39 AM  

Flying Lasagna Monster: I'm glad it's over. Someone's gotta teach those South Side niglets how to prepare for a life of welfare, parole, incarceration, and out-of-wedlock births.  Mugshots! Drugs! Rims!!!


Wow. I am in awe, sir.

9/10 for you.
 
2012-09-19 01:17:53 AM  
stupid assholes watching the collapse of a lifestyle.
 
2012-09-19 01:34:48 AM  

FarkLiter: Popcorn Johnny: FarkLiter: If they know they are getting a 17.6% raise over the next 4 years, what is the point of evaluating their performance?

People who are guaranteed raises can still be terminated for bad performance.

Yes, but you give them zero incentive to put in any extra effort. If their kids meet minimum standards, or if they all test in the top 1% of the world, the teacher gets the same reward.


Even so, if I were a teacher, I'd consider it a point of pride to do the utmost for my students to succeed. I'd find a way to teach to the misbegotten tests *and* prepare them for life, maybe inspiring them along the way. If I'm rewarded monetarily for it, so much the better. But I'd be a teacher to have the privilege to shape young minds. And the least the school board can do is respect my efforts and give me the tools I need to do the job properly.

/i support the strike
//mayor 1% had no respect for chicago teachers
/ many of my friends and acquaintances are chicago public school teachers and counselors
 
2012-09-19 02:07:20 AM  
I think teachers should be paid well, and I really don't have a problem with the CPS average salary or the 17.6% increase they negotiated. But I don't know how much longer taxpayers can fund both salaries and premium benefits for public employees. While the rest of us are lucky to get 401ks from employers that match any percentage (and a good employer matches what--5%?), a Chicago teacher does not contribute 4.2% toward SS (because they don't receive SS) and contributes only 2% of base salary, which is then compounded by the school district's contribution of 7% of base salary. Is that nice? Sure. Deserved? Sure. Is it realistic to think that taxpayers can fund this type of pension for tens of thousands of teachers in perpetuity? Probably not. Especially when average taxpayers don't receive these types of retirement benefits themselves and don't have the money to pay them for anyone else.

And the healthcare benefits for Chicago teachers are also better than what most other non-teacher workers can expect. At least from what I read of the strike, Chicago teachers are paying between 10 and 15% of their healthcare costs, compared to a national average of 21%. That's a pretty significant difference. The difference is magnified by the fact that most Chicago teachers get 2.5 months off each year, and can work additional jobs during the summer, increasing both their annual take home pay and their ability to cover their lower healthcare contributions.

These numbers are just from what I read during the Chicago strike. I don't have personal experience with them. But if they're accurate, it seems to me that, salary issues aside, teachers in Chicago are receiving retirement and healthcare benefits that far outstrip what average non-teachers receive. I'll bet near half of US employers do not make 401k contributions at all, much less contribute 7% of annual salary. And paying 6-11% less toward healthcare costs could be a few thousand dollars per year that the average non-teacher has to pony up out of her salary that a teacher doesn't have to carve out.

I guess I'm wondering why teachers should be exempt from the same retirement scheme and healthcare costs that most other workers have to live with. I don't particularly begrudge them any of it. I just wonder what is so special about teachers that they deserve better retirements and cheaper healthcare than the average joe, who often has to rely on self-funded 401ks and pay a lot more of his healthcare costs.
 
2012-09-19 02:09:02 AM  

themeaningoflifeisnot: that most other workers have to live with.


The better question is, why do other workers just accept inferior benefits instead of pushing for better?
 
2012-09-19 02:12:38 AM  

WhyteRaven74: themeaningoflifeisnot: that most other workers have to live with.

The better question is, why do other workers just accept inferior benefits instead of pushing for better?


True. But if non-union workers cannot gain the same benefits as unionized public employees, is it wrong for them to decide that, as taxpayers, they don't want to fund premium benefits for those public employees?
 
2012-09-19 02:23:12 AM  

themeaningoflifeisnot: But if non-union workers cannot gain the same benefits as unionized public employees,


Well the general appearance is there hasn't been a lot of trying to get the same benefits.
 
2012-09-19 02:32:12 AM  

themeaningoflifeisnot: But if non-union workers cannot gain the same benefits as unionized public employees, is it wrong for them to decide that, as taxpayers, they don't want to fund premium benefits for those public employees?


No and yes. The taxpayers should have a better say in what is being paid for and every right to feel such funding is wasted considering the results from education, but taxpayers, as with all people, tend to be rather shortsighted, ignorant, and solitary. Those tend to be because there are not many tools for taxpayers to come together, information is not made readily available in a worthwhile format, and the effects are not readily apparent in part due to lack of information. We have been conditioned with this us vs. them mentality and fed misinformation as well, the expectation is we would make a wrong decision.
 
2012-09-19 02:52:57 AM  

WhyteRaven74: themeaningoflifeisnot: But if non-union workers cannot gain the same benefits as unionized public employees,

Well the general appearance is there hasn't been a lot of trying to get the same benefits.


But can most non-teachers even get the same benefits as teachers? Isn't that because unions have been decimated by widespread closures of union shops, reducing most of the workforce to positions that simply can't be unionized? And without collective bargaining, most of the workforce isn't in a position to get pensions and cheaper healthcare. But teachers unions usually can't be broken--teachers in sizable school districts strike for any significant time and the educational system and kids are seriously harmed.

So teachers retain bargaining power by virtue of their positions and numbers that the rest of us normally don't have, and they get the benefit of that power. And it can't be wrested from them without putting kids at risk. That's a hell of a bargaining chip that the average worker will never have. So non-union workers really can't try to get the same results as teachers unions get.
 
2012-09-19 02:55:55 AM  
If they're not going to be paid by performance then we really should pay them babysitting wages cause that's all they're really doing.

$8.00 an hour per child X 30 children = $240 an hour
average school day length of time teaching not including lunch or planning periods 4.5 hours
4.5 hours x $240 = 1080 a day
1080 x approx 175 day school year = $189,000
And you can do all that grading, parent conferencing, report cards and lesson plan writing on your own time.

Oh wait, suddenly it all seems so much more reasonable.

/snark
//"retired" teacher
 
2012-09-19 03:09:52 AM  

CavalierEternal: but you seem to be totally incapable of comprehending a simple concept



You really should check relec out in politics topics... they're even better
 
2012-09-19 03:25:02 AM  

Kenny B: There was a time when Unions played a vital role in the workplace. Now it's more of a bully pulpit.



Why? Because you say so? Wealth disparity, the gap between rich and poor, has never been higher. Now is even more of a time for unions. it's no coincidence that union membership has dropped over 30 years while wages have been stagnant or lowering.
 
2012-09-19 03:30:48 AM  

Vangor: themeaningoflifeisnot: But if non-union workers cannot gain the same benefits as unionized public employees, is it wrong for them to decide that, as taxpayers, they don't want to fund premium benefits for those public employees?

No and yes. The taxpayers should have a better say in what is being paid for and every right to feel such funding is wasted considering the results from education, but taxpayers, as with all people, tend to be rather shortsighted, ignorant, and solitary. Those tend to be because there are not many tools for taxpayers to come together, information is not made readily available in a worthwhile format, and the effects are not readily apparent in part due to lack of information. We have been conditioned with this us vs. them mentality and fed misinformation as well, the expectation is we would make a wrong decision.


It seems that, for the investment, the results should be better. Only 56% of Chicago students graduate? Not good. Same thing with the Buffalo School District? Not only does it have a dismal overall graduation rate, only 25% of black males graduate according to 2010 numbers. And Buffalo has been throwing money at these problems for years.

Obviously, the fault can't be laid just at the feet of the teachers. Parents are at fault, economics are at fault, home life, etc. But teachers play a major role in student success, and if 44% of students aren't graduating each year you have to wonder what throwing money into special benefits achieves. Paying teachers a decent wage is one thing even if the results aren't what you want them to be. Adding premium benefits just because the union can force its way to such benefits is arguably over the top. I'm not saying that teachers are getting rich off the taxpayers. It just seems that their special benefits are more the result of bargaining power than achievement.
 
2012-09-19 04:06:56 AM  

themeaningoflifeisnot: But teachers play a major role in student success


You can put the best teacher in the world in front of a group of 35-50 students (a real class size these days) and if the students don't put in the effort to learn (because they can't sleep at night due to barking dogs, sirens, parents fighting, they didn't get breakfast because their parents are unemployed and don't have enough money to feed them breakfast, their parents are on drugs or drunk, they only have one parent who works three jobs and never sees them, they don't care for whatever reason etc.) they student will not learn. You can put the worst teacher in front of a group of motivated students and those students will learn in spite of the teacher. I'd say THE major role in student achievement is the student. Don't blame the teacher for ALL failed students.
 
2012-09-19 04:18:31 AM  
Pensions remind me of Wimpy in Popeye, "I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today!" The problem is, that on Tuesday, Wimpy doesn't have any money.
 
2012-09-19 04:49:52 AM  
<b><a href="http://www.fark.com/comments/7334523/79476130#c79476130" target="_blank">themeaningoflifeisnot</a>:</b> <i>It seems that, for the investment, the results should be better.</i>

Of course. Throwing money into teacher pay will not solve this problem. Trying to cut teacher salaries and benefits, however, will exacerbate this problem as quality teachers leave the profession due to the realities of a living way and lifestyle expectations.

<b><a href="http://www.fark.com/comments/7334523/79476130#c79476130" target="_blank">themeaningoflifeisnot</a>:</b> <i>It just seems that their special benefits are more the result of bargaining power than achievement.</i>

Again, I would agree with this, at least to an extent. The benefits, though I would hesitate to call them "special benefits" when at least several elements such as medical and dental should be standard, are not from achievement but rather from bargaining first and now a means of bringing in and maintaining a profession with lowering prestige, rising entry requirements, increased pressure on assessments, volatility, and much more.

<b><a href="http://www.fark.com/comments/7334523/79476130#c79476130" target="_blank">themeaningoflifeisnot</a>:</b> <i>But teachers play a major role in student success</i>

Absolutely. People often note the parents in this, too, but there are all manner of other elements which equate to the "teacher". Administrative support, collaborative grouping, professional development offerings and policies, additional funding, community involvement, curriculum supplies, standards, district and state assessments, school and district and state cocurricular requirements, and more. Several of those are burdens on teachers, and several of those would be boons to teachers but are often nonexistent or counter-productive. A teacher does play a major role in student success, and I think of myself as contributing to the success of my students in spite of the negatives of the system and environment; there are others who are contributing to the failure of our students despite the positives of the system and environment.
 
2012-09-19 08:08:08 AM  

rengav: themeaningoflifeisnot: But teachers play a major role in student success

You can put the best teacher in the world in front of a group of 35-50 students (a real class size these days) and if the students don't put in the effort to learn (because they can't sleep at night due to barking dogs, sirens, parents fighting, they didn't get breakfast because their parents are unemployed and don't have enough money to feed them breakfast, their parents are on drugs or drunk, they only have one parent who works three jobs and never sees them, they don't care for whatever reason etc.) they student will not learn. You can put the worst teacher in front of a group of motivated students and those students will learn in spite of the teacher. I'd say THE major role in student achievement is the student. Don't blame the teacher for ALL failed students.


It sounds like merit pay and bonuses should go to the students.
 
2012-09-19 08:39:13 AM  
Wonder if the teacher's unions will support rahm again next election

I'm guessing they have to

May I suggest the liberal use of fire to fix the problems there?
 
2012-09-19 10:10:27 AM  

rengav: themeaningoflifeisnot: But teachers play a major role in student success

You can put the best teacher in the world in front of a group of 35-50 students (a real class size these days) and if the students don't put in the effort to learn (because they can't sleep at night due to barking dogs, sirens, parents fighting, they didn't get breakfast because their parents are unemployed and don't have enough money to feed them breakfast, their parents are on drugs or drunk, they only have one parent who works three jobs and never sees them, they don't care for whatever reason etc.) they student will not learn. You can put the worst teacher in front of a group of motivated students and those students will learn in spite of the teacher. I'd say THE major role in student achievement is the student. Don't blame the teacher for ALL failed students.


I agree with you to a certain extent, but I have several teachers in my family and they would all agree that it is, ultimately, up to the teacher to overcome those obstacles. And I'm not pinning it on the teacher to take low performing students and make them all top scholars. I'm just expecting graduation rates to be much higher than 56%, at least as a start. I don't think that it is too much to expect the teachers and administration, collectively, to make sure that 70% of high school students graduate. That would significantly improve the CPS while leaving plenty of room for those kids who can't be reformed/educated so that they don't count against the teachers' efforts.
 
2012-09-19 11:40:14 AM  
If they still have tenure, then nothing will improve.
 
2012-09-19 02:01:31 PM  

Jedekai: NO ONE CARES HOW MUCH YOU PAY A DAYCARE

/Homeschooled.
At 14 I had a P.S.E.C. (That means I could have earned a Bachelor's) level Science, 16th Grade level English, 14th Grade level Social Studies, 13th Grade level Health (mandated by Montana) and an 8th Grade Mathematics score.

Public Schools are meant for compulsory societal engineering. Nothing else.


My Hubby and I are planning on having kids in about 3 years and since we do NOT make enough money for private school we're leaning towards home-schooling, maybe french immersion if we can get in. Ontario will pay for public or catholic education so we have some ability to shop around.

I went to some pretty crappy public schools, elementary was the worst because I dared to like reading books so I was a social outcast. I would be bored in school because, sadly, teachers had to slow down to teach kids whose parents DID NOT care about education. It wasn't the fault of the teachers or the kids, it was crappy parents.
 
2012-09-19 05:15:41 PM  

Sum Dum Gai: ImpendingCynic: Oh, the lie is up to $76k a year now? It's $67k, according to 2011 salary figures, and before getting all huffy about a 16% increase, it's over 4 years, which cumulatively is about 3.5% per year, making it not much more than a COLA.

Honestly, the teachers are not very well paid considering their level of education.

[www.washingtonpost.com image 606x357]

$65k for a master's degree and 5 years experience? I also have a master's degree - my starting salary fresh from college was higher than $65k, and I broke $90k within two years.

The teachers' average compensation is well above median only because their average education is well above median - when you factor their degrees into account, those salaries aren't all that great.


When you factor in the extra vacation days, they make roughly $90k within 5 years. Feel better now?

Also factor in the fact that probably most of them have never worked over a 40 hour week in their life... a good chunk of them come in at 7AM and leave at 3PM, which when you take out their lunch break means they work a 7 hour day. Some even get an additional hour for a "planning period". When's the last time you had a 40 hour work week?

Most salaried positions with a Masters would *love* to only work 40 hours a week, much less 30-35 hours. -Take that extra time off (using a 35 hour week) and they are making about $102k after 5 years.

Think I'm done? I'm not... This figure doesn't include their annual bonus...

/I come from an entire family of teachers (a few generations actually), and I think these particular teachers are grossly overpaid for the results they are getting.
//Look at any statistics on the quality of the Chicago public school system and tell me you think the kids they are teaching are getting over $100k a year performance from any of these teachers.
 
2012-09-19 06:53:52 PM  

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: All kids are equal, so all test scores should be equal. The only explanation is crappy teachers - not pre-existing sociological conditions or generational poverty and implicit segregation.


Oh come on, you know darn well 99.99% of tenured teachers are awesome! That's why in 2008, NYC only fired three of it's 30,000. Since almost none are bad, who needs a sensible testing scheme that compares test scores of one teacher with those of all other teachers who work with kids in a similar demographic group, and therefore smooths out variations due to "pre-existing sociological conditions or generational poverty and implicit segregation"? We should just soak the rich and give the money to teachers!
 
2012-09-19 08:50:13 PM  

Gabrielmot: /I come from an entire family of teachers (a few generations actually), and I think these particular teachers are grossly overpaid for the results they are getting.


If your claim as to your family history is true, then you know that most teachers spend several hours after school grading and planning lessons. Then in summer most have a second job, teach summer school, or take classes to keep their credentials. When I was a K-12 teacher I was required to do 150 hours or 15 units of professional development which I had to pay for OUT OF MY OWN POCKET.

/not a K-12 teacher
//happy about it
 
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