If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Smithsonian Magazine)   Scholar unveils 1,600 year old Coptic papyrus fragment where Jesus says "my wife". Scholar thinks she may have also made out the words "take" and "please"   (smithsonianmag.com) divider line 32
    More: Interesting, Coptic, jesus, Early Christian, Mary Magdalene, Harvard Square, gallery, Biblical studies, ancient Egyptians  
•       •       •

4975 clicks; posted to Geek » on 18 Sep 2012 at 6:05 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Archived thread
2012-09-18 09:36:11 PM
3 votes:

skodabunny: Oh wow...oh Coptic. Oh.

Coptic is to Christian what cocaine is to Coca Cola.



So...you're saying Coptic is an original and key ingredient in Christianity that was removed later to please the authorities?
2012-09-18 06:10:06 PM
2 votes:
Scholar unveils 1,600 year old Coptic papyrus fragement where Jesus says "my wife".

Unless a bunch of the other stuff in the Bible is wrong, then Jesus probably wasn't doing much speaking in the 5th century.
2012-09-20 11:53:18 PM
1 votes:

nmemkha: Maybe each of us has the potential to rise above our fate if we are not too greedy, hateful, and selfish to achieve it. Maybe He loves us enough to let us live even if we are doomed. Would choose not have your child (if you have one) if you knew they would die as a child? Would you deny yourself and them the joy you shared during the child's existence just because the child would be taken from you eventually?


If it meant I would be obligated to throw them into a furnace where they'd burn for all eternity without even the hope of oblivion... yeah, I'd probably consider not having that child.
2012-09-19 11:49:15 AM
1 votes:

Magorn: I know I understand evolution perfectly, but I also believe in a God that is beyond time space and both ominoptent AND omniescent.


How can a being be all powerful, but unable to act in time and space? You make no sense.

Magorn: Oh and for the record, the only Hell I believe in is the CS Lewis version: a voluntary separation from God.


How is that "Hell"? That's like escaping from North Korea. Sounds pretty damn nice to me.
2012-09-19 10:53:46 AM
1 votes:
Once more for the dummies

(and let's get this out of the way first - despite it being so obvious that it hardly need be stated)
There is no god.
All phenomena are natural and explainable.
There is no such thing as "supernatural" (sorry - no god, fairies, spirits, devils, spells, magic, chi, ghosts, ufos, astrology or any other such nonsesnse).
Anyone trying to tell you different is just scamming you for money and/or obedience.


Now regarding Jesus.
He was the rightful King of Israel - but just a normal man.
Herod was a usurper and had him killed.
Jesus had a wife whose name was Mary.
Jesus had kids.


Regarding Christianity
Paul invented Christianity
Christianity was popular among the slaves of the roman empire.
It was promoted as the state religion as a last ditch attempt to save the roman empire.
Obviously it is all a scam....but one that has managed to perpetuate for 2000 years.

Lets forget about this idea of religion and concentrate on more important things ie reality.......
Roman Catholicism blended the roman state religion with the slave religion of christianity.
2012-09-19 10:28:13 AM
1 votes:

digitalrain: Jedekai:
FUN FACT: "A day is like a millennium, and a millennium is like a day" is a line from God in the bible. The process of how God created the animals is the same pattern as evolution. Mary Magdalene is almost certainly Jesus' wife. Jesus calls himself the "Son of Man" not "Son of God" until the crucifixion. Even the Catholic Church has stated in the past that Jesus didn't become The Messiah until he died, and that the miracles he performed were divine, but not sacrosanct.

Bring this shiat up the next time some Young-Earth Creationist tries to argue against both Intelligent Design *AND* Evolution.

THANK YOU! I've been saying this for YEARS. I'm Catholic, but I don't believe that evolution and intelligent
design are mutually exclusive. Whenever one of my fellow Catholics sputters about God doing X on the first
day, Y on the second day, etc... My response is always "You're assuming that 'a day' as it was referenced
in Genesis was our 24-hour period.

I usually get looked at funny.

/ conflicted Catholic


Be at peace, the Vatican has your back on this one. I got my own conflicts with Benny and the Jets (cardinals) but thier current positions of physical science are not one of them. Evolution is regarded by the church as unassailable fact, and thanks largely to the Jesuits, there have been many important discoveries in Physics and Biology made by guys wearing roman collars.

My personal theology: God created the Universe, but in his wisdom and mercy he did so by first creating the laws of physics and then meticulously following them in the process of creation. He did this so that such intelligent life as evolved in that universe, could one day understand how he did it, and take control of their universe.

Imho, the parabable of the Gardenof Eden is a religious interpretation of the moment that humans evolved into sentience (Only human action can truly be said to have a moral dimension since only humans have the conscious choice to act or not act, and understand the implications of both choices- thus the "forbidden tree" was labeled "The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil") and it is important to note that the "Snake" didn't lie to Adam and Eve, to evolved sentience was truly to become like God
2012-09-19 12:18:13 AM
1 votes:

GhostFish: Jedekai: The process of how God created the animals is the same pattern as evolution.

What? No.

The Bible depicts God as creating sea life and birds at the same time, before land animals.

No.


Lost in translation. Look this Wikipedia page for some clarity.

I could misinterpret Evolution and say something stupid like "Darwin says I am a monkey!". If I write down and back it with authority then it starts to be bandied about like representative of the content of the original text. 

Besides, Christians should spend more time in the New Testament and less time in the old. Jesus himself alluded that the rabbinical authorities corrupted the intent of His father's teachings with selfish laws and tenets they "lawyered" around the core truth.

It hard to argue that not stealing and murdering (Old Testament) and being selfless, loving, and kind to others (New Testament) is not a good way to live your life. Too bad so many "Christians" act more like Pharisees (the Jewish leaders whose accusations led to Christ's crucifixion) who claim to be good and holy, but are actually apathetic hypocrites who live in luxury on the backs of the impoverished.
2012-09-18 11:55:09 PM
1 votes:

Jedekai: The process of how God created the animals is the same pattern as evolution.


What? No.

The Bible depicts God as creating sea life and birds at the same time, before land animals.

No.
2012-09-18 11:44:36 PM
1 votes:

digitalrain: 0Icky0: digitalrain: I'm Catholic, but I don't believe that evolution and intelligent design are mutually exclusive.

Then you don't understand evolution.

No, I understand it quite well, thanks. Mind you, I don't believe in the Big Bang theory. I also don't think
that God woke up on Day 5 and created the sea and flying critters, took nap and then woke up the next
day and decided to create man and other land dwelling critters.

Existing evidence (archaeological finds, similarities between species, etc...) seems to lend credence to
the notion that evolution is real, but I also believe that God as Creator is real.

I think that the referenced "day" was actually a much longer time frame than the 24 hour period we all
assume it to be. I like to think that God created the raw materials with the intent that they would evolve
over time - with each evolutionary milestone being "a day".

Just my own thoughts. YMMV, and that's cool too.


You know, you're a million times better than most Republicans, but I'm still going to have to take you to task here.

You're making up things that aren't in the Bible to support an intermediate position that is logically untenable and needlessly complex.

If you aren't going to use the Bible as guidance, why bother with God at all? Why not Krishna or Thor? Or nothing at all?
2012-09-18 10:54:23 PM
1 votes:

Girion47: minoridiot: Wait until they discover "The Da Vinci Code".

If Dan Brown claims to be divinely inspired, who could refute that? Paul was a Gentile when he all of a sudden became a christian bigwig.


I'd love to know how that went down. How did twelve apostles of the son of the creator of the universe decide to follow some guy that pretended to meet him? How the son of the creator of billions of galaxies, seer of all in the universe, knower of all that is to be known, not have a farking plan of succession?

Nah, trust me, son; it's better to let our names be slandered for the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of people for thousands of years.

/Dumb plan is dumb
2012-09-18 10:26:41 PM
1 votes:

digitalrain: I'm Catholic, but I don't believe that evolution and intelligent design are mutually exclusive.


Then you don't understand evolution.
2012-09-18 10:06:56 PM
1 votes:

LeftOfLiberal: skodabunny: Oh wow...oh Coptic. Oh.

Coptic is to Christian what cocaine is to Coca Cola.

So it used to be in it and it was removed to please a vocal minority?


Coca is still in Coca Cola. They import denatured leaves every year to add to the mix.
2012-09-18 09:38:57 PM
1 votes:

skodabunny: Oh wow...oh Coptic. Oh.

Coptic is to Christian what cocaine is to Coca Cola.


So it used to be in it and it was removed to please a vocal minority?
2012-09-18 08:40:57 PM
1 votes:

0Icky0: Jedekai: The process of how God created the animals is the same pattern as evolution.

Not even remotely.


This. Depending on which of the two contradictory stories munged together in Genesis he's referring to, one of them says that first God created a man, then created all the other animals trying to find a companion for the man, and then created a woman. Is he seriously arguing that has any resemblance to evolution?

Hell, the pattern of how God created the cosmos doesn't even follow the same pattern as reality. I remember a wonderful Isaac Asimov piece from my childhood in which The Master states that "science and the Bible agree as far as 'In the beginning...'. After that, they diverge."
2012-09-18 08:25:55 PM
1 votes:

Marine1: people started to make up stuff 120-400 years after the fact older made-up shiat.

2012-09-18 07:33:01 PM
1 votes:
If you really want to get technical, originally Christ had 8 wives.

Rukmini, Satyabhama, Jambavati, Kalindi, Mitravrinda, Nagnajiti, Bhadra, and Lakshana.
2012-09-18 07:32:34 PM
1 votes:

Refudiated Strategerist: Before the Christian Right™ will believe it they will want to see the long form papyrus.


As a member of the Protestant Libertarians (Luther would've been one): The Christian Right looks more like "Stormtroopers for the 8% of his life that we recognize".

FUN FACT: "A day is like a millennium, and a millennium is like a day" is a line from God in the bible. The process of how God created the animals is the same pattern as evolution. Mary Magdalene is almost certainly Jesus' wife. Jesus calls himself the "Son of Man" not "Son of God" until the crucifixion. Even the Catholic Church has stated in the past that Jesus didn't become The Messiah until he died, and that the miracles he performed were divine, but not sacrosanct.

Bring this shiat up the next time some Young-Earth Creationist tries to argue against both Intelligent Design *AND* Evolution.

/"In the beginning there was the WORD, and the WORD was "El ohim" (The Light). And He said "Let There Be Light!" and there was."... sounds a lot like the Big Bang, huh? AMUSE YOUR BLIND SHEEP FRIENDS!
//Then bring up "Why aren't all the Apostles books in the Bible? For that matter, how come the Book of Enoch isn't even considered Apocrypha? What about the books written AFTER the Visions of John (Revelations)?".
///I. LOVE. Watching people with BLIND FAITH twitch. If you have no philosophy to your religion, you are EVERYTHING Jesus said not to be.
2012-09-18 07:21:35 PM
1 votes:
Before the Christian Right™ will believe it they will want to see the long form papyrus.
2012-09-18 07:13:13 PM
1 votes:

Marine1: Nabb1: THIS IS AN OUTRAGE I MUST GO BLOW UP SOMETHING RIGHT N- actually, this is kind of interesting.

These are Christians we're talking about. I mean, we are dicks from time to time but uh... not big on the whole "let's burn shiat down and kill people" anymore.

doglover: Now if it was 2100 years old, and a Roman legal document, we might have something.

Ding ding ding. This.

Probably a gnostic fragment. They're not from the time of Jesus, but since Christians at the time wanted to know as much info as they could about Jesus, people started to make up stuff 120-400 years after the fact.


Like when most of the books of New Testament were thought to have been written?

The Coptics were the ones who walked out when Constantine forced his version of canon on the "Christians." I'm far more inclined to accept their version than anything dreamt up by Augustine and the rest of the Roman theologians.

Look at the Gospel of St. Thomas, recovered from India where he'd been doing his preaching. Absolutely nothing there about divinity, about immaculate conceptions, miracles. Just plain teachings from Jesus about how to live with one's neighbors in a loving way.

Hell, researchers authenticated a Gospel of Judas about the time that they authenticated those of Thomas and of Mary Magdalene. That sure was some good reporting on his suicide. But then those books only reflected the teachings of the followers of the original Apostles so the whole Bible is a cherry-picked game of "telephone."
2012-09-18 07:04:52 PM
1 votes:

Mercutio74: MontanaDave: This will not likely change any minds on the hard right (fundies) or hard left (atheists). Is Jesus' wife making a play for the independent voters?

/sorry. too much time spent in the Politics tab

In fact, this is old news for a lot of us on the left. It's been widely speculated that Heyzeus was married since it would have been very, very odd for a Rabbi not to be married at that time.


In fact, it's said that the earliest church leaders were women. It was Mary Mad who saw and recognized the risen Jesus first. She was never a prostitute, that came from a Pope Gregory sermon, which the Vatican had dismissed in 1969
2012-09-18 06:37:42 PM
1 votes:

12349876: The earliest Christians thought Jesus was coming back real soon, so there was no need to write shiat down and they didn't until it started dawning on them that maybe it wasn't going to be so soon.


For me I'd think something is up when Paul stole the religion and started acting like a douche. You'd have to look at each other and say, "The old guy was better... this farking sucks."
2012-09-18 06:34:54 PM
1 votes:

ZAZ: But to study this sort of thing properly you need to work with the original material, not an English translation or even a Greek translation.


You are gonna run into a lot of problems with that one...Since I believe the earliest versions are either in Roman or Greek.

Kids, Thanks Emperor Constantine for having the Council of Nicaea burn any "unorthodox" books 

upload.wikimedia.org 

(And Santa Claus, cause he punched out another bishop for claiming that Jesus wasn't part of The Word)
Xai
2012-09-18 06:32:43 PM
1 votes:

GilRuiz1: As evidence that the real-life Jesus was married, the fragment is scarcely more dispositive than Brown's controversial 2003 novel, The Da Vinci Code.


Also, in before "LULZ the bibbl is fiction except fer this one phrase."


Also in before the LULZ the bible is truth except for this one phrase
2012-09-18 06:23:23 PM
1 votes:

Nabb1: THIS IS AN OUTRAGE I MUST GO BLOW UP SOMETHING RIGHT N- actually, this is kind of interesting.


These are Christians we're talking about. I mean, we are dicks from time to time but uh... not big on the whole "let's burn shiat down and kill people" anymore.

doglover: Now if it was 2100 years old, and a Roman legal document, we might have something.


Ding ding ding. This.

Probably a gnostic fragment. They're not from the time of Jesus, but since Christians at the time wanted to know as much info as they could about Jesus, people started to make up stuff 120-400 years after the fact.
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-09-18 06:12:52 PM
1 votes:
Old news. Not because it was written over 1,000 years ago, but because this is a previously known heresy / alternative history of Jesus.

Did it say wife or "partner"?

Interesting question, possibly one one whose answer was already lost in translation at the time.

Driving to Ohio I heard awful Christian radio with the usual shouting sermons. When I got into the Great Plains, more or less, the religious programming turned interesting at times. One of the programs was about inferring the existence of ancient divorce from the trichotomy of unmarried people in one book the Bible. There were words for never-married, widowed, and a third class. The third class is not never married and not widowed, so presumably divorced. But to study this sort of thing properly you need to work with the original material, not an English translation or even a Greek translation.
2012-09-18 06:08:14 PM
1 votes:

GilRuiz1: As evidence that the real-life Jesus was married, the fragment is scarcely more dispositive than Brown's controversial 2003 novel, The Da Vinci Code.


Also, in before "LULZ the bibbl is fiction except fer this one phrase."


Aight, how about: LULZ the bibbl is fiction including this one phrase
2012-09-18 06:00:13 PM
1 votes:
freeversephotography.com
2012-09-18 05:58:44 PM
1 votes:

SphericalTime: vpb: Did it say wife or "partner"?

"Companion."

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Not sure I trust Coptic documents on major religious figures...

I only trust ancient Greek documents that reference Scientology and Mormonism.


So Jesus was really The Doctor?
2012-09-18 05:36:19 PM
1 votes:
Now if it was 2100 years old, and a Roman legal document, we might have something.
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-09-18 05:19:32 PM
1 votes:
Did it say wife or "partner"?
2012-09-18 05:18:19 PM
1 votes:
THIS IS AN OUTRAGE I MUST GO BLOW UP SOMETHING RIGHT N- actually, this is kind of interesting.
2012-09-18 05:15:18 PM
1 votes:
As evidence that the real-life Jesus was married, the fragment is scarcely more dispositive than Brown's controversial 2003 novel, The Da Vinci Code.


Also, in before "LULZ the bibbl is fiction except fer this one phrase."
 
Displayed 32 of 32 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report