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(Smithsonian Magazine)   Scholar unveils 1,600 year old Coptic papyrus fragment where Jesus says "my wife". Scholar thinks she may have also made out the words "take" and "please"   (smithsonianmag.com) divider line 186
    More: Interesting, Coptic, jesus, Early Christian, Mary Magdalene, Harvard Square, gallery, Biblical studies, ancient Egyptians  
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2012-09-18 11:44:19 PM

Kome: I get the feeling that this is just a very old example of slash fiction.


You're confusing it for the story where Jesus gets it on with Pontius Pilate.
 
2012-09-18 11:44:36 PM

digitalrain: 0Icky0: digitalrain: I'm Catholic, but I don't believe that evolution and intelligent design are mutually exclusive.

Then you don't understand evolution.

No, I understand it quite well, thanks. Mind you, I don't believe in the Big Bang theory. I also don't think
that God woke up on Day 5 and created the sea and flying critters, took nap and then woke up the next
day and decided to create man and other land dwelling critters.

Existing evidence (archaeological finds, similarities between species, etc...) seems to lend credence to
the notion that evolution is real, but I also believe that God as Creator is real.

I think that the referenced "day" was actually a much longer time frame than the 24 hour period we all
assume it to be. I like to think that God created the raw materials with the intent that they would evolve
over time - with each evolutionary milestone being "a day".

Just my own thoughts. YMMV, and that's cool too.


You know, you're a million times better than most Republicans, but I'm still going to have to take you to task here.

You're making up things that aren't in the Bible to support an intermediate position that is logically untenable and needlessly complex.

If you aren't going to use the Bible as guidance, why bother with God at all? Why not Krishna or Thor? Or nothing at all?
 
2012-09-18 11:45:26 PM

digitalrain: Jedekai:
FUN FACT: "A day is like a millennium, and a millennium is like a day" is a line from God in the bible. The process of how God created the animals is the same pattern as evolution. Mary Magdalene is almost certainly Jesus' wife. Jesus calls himself the "Son of Man" not "Son of God" until the crucifixion. Even the Catholic Church has stated in the past that Jesus didn't become The Messiah until he died, and that the miracles he performed were divine, but not sacrosanct.

Bring this shiat up the next time some Young-Earth Creationist tries to argue against both Intelligent Design *AND* Evolution.

THANK YOU! I've been saying this for YEARS. I'm Catholic, but I don't believe that evolution and intelligent
design are mutually exclusive. Whenever one of my fellow Catholics sputters about God doing X on the first
day, Y on the second day, etc... My response is always "You're assuming that 'a day' as it was referenced
in Genesis was our 24-hour period.

I usually get looked at funny.

/ conflicted Catholic


I'm also a Catholic. I've rarely found people in my parish who deny evolution.

(Actually, if you read the Catholic Encyclopedia of 1912, Evolution is supported there as well [although not in as strong terms])

/ Also, Pope John Paul II accepted Evolution as fact.
// Both my priests have told me that a lot of the Old Testament should be considered an allegory, for example, some of Genesis, among others.
 
2012-09-18 11:53:18 PM
I'm thinking of making a fake Bible Apocrypha that can fool carbon dating. I'd need to centrifuge tetrafluoromethane and reduce to CO2, but it is possible.

Any other tests I should know about, and tips for faking it?

/The Gospel of Orgies, Porn, Paying your Goddamned Taxes, Nevermind the Proselytization Thing, and Queers are Awesome begs to be written.
 
2012-09-18 11:55:09 PM

Jedekai: The process of how God created the animals is the same pattern as evolution.


What? No.

The Bible depicts God as creating sea life and birds at the same time, before land animals.

No.
 
2012-09-18 11:58:46 PM
i120.photobucket.com
 
2012-09-19 12:10:51 AM

digitalrain: I don't believe in the Big Bang theory


Why???
The Big Bang Theory was postulated by George Lamatre, a Catholic Priest.
 
2012-09-19 12:11:48 AM
Good evening. Here is the news on Friday, the 27th of Geldof.

Archaeologists near Mount Sinai have discovered what is believed to be a missing page from the Bible. The page is currently being carbon dated in Bonn. If genuine it belongs at the beginning of the Bible and is believed to read "To my darling Candy. All characters portrayed within this book are fictitous and any resemblance to persons living or dead is purely coincidental."

The page has been universally condemned by church leaders.
 
2012-09-19 12:14:02 AM
Here's what I'm not getting from the article, and I presume that it's explained in the upcoming journal article, but how does this professor know that the text which she is putting forth isn't simply an Egyptian heretic? There was no shortage of Christians in Europe who believed all sorts of things that didn't make it into the canon. Maybe this was just an Egyptian gnostic text. Maybe that's why it was cut out.

Hell, I could write today some account of what I felt Jesus ought to have said and call it the Gospel of Indy, and 1600 years hence they might dig it up, but that doesn't mean it's representative of normative 21st century Christianity.
 
2012-09-19 12:18:13 AM

GhostFish: Jedekai: The process of how God created the animals is the same pattern as evolution.

What? No.

The Bible depicts God as creating sea life and birds at the same time, before land animals.

No.


Lost in translation. Look this Wikipedia page for some clarity.

I could misinterpret Evolution and say something stupid like "Darwin says I am a monkey!". If I write down and back it with authority then it starts to be bandied about like representative of the content of the original text. 

Besides, Christians should spend more time in the New Testament and less time in the old. Jesus himself alluded that the rabbinical authorities corrupted the intent of His father's teachings with selfish laws and tenets they "lawyered" around the core truth.

It hard to argue that not stealing and murdering (Old Testament) and being selfless, loving, and kind to others (New Testament) is not a good way to live your life. Too bad so many "Christians" act more like Pharisees (the Jewish leaders whose accusations led to Christ's crucifixion) who claim to be good and holy, but are actually apathetic hypocrites who live in luxury on the backs of the impoverished.
 
2012-09-19 12:24:16 AM

Skyrmion: Kome: I get the feeling that this is just a very old example of slash fiction.

You're confusing it for the story where Jesus gets it on with Pontius Pilate Brian's mom.


I like this version better
 
2012-09-19 12:32:43 AM

digitalrain: Just my own thoughts. YMMV, and that's cool too.


For most things, yeah. Music, food, books, movies. Chicks.
But not for science. Your mileage has to be backed up with more than feelings.
 
2012-09-19 12:56:35 AM

Rockstone: digitalrain: Jedekai:
FUN FACT: "A day is like a millennium, and a millennium is like a day" is a line from God in the bible. The process of how God created the animals is the same pattern as evolution. Mary Magdalene is almost certainly Jesus' wife. Jesus calls himself the "Son of Man" not "Son of God" until the crucifixion. Even the Catholic Church has stated in the past that Jesus didn't become The Messiah until he died, and that the miracles he performed were divine, but not sacrosanct.

Bring this shiat up the next time some Young-Earth Creationist tries to argue against both Intelligent Design *AND* Evolution.

THANK YOU! I've been saying this for YEARS. I'm Catholic, but I don't believe that evolution and intelligent
design are mutually exclusive. Whenever one of my fellow Catholics sputters about God doing X on the first
day, Y on the second day, etc... My response is always "You're assuming that 'a day' as it was referenced
in Genesis was our 24-hour period.

I usually get looked at funny.

/ conflicted Catholic

I'm also a Catholic. I've rarely found people in my parish who deny evolution.

(Actually, if you read the Catholic Encyclopedia of 1912, Evolution is supported there as well [although not in as strong terms])

/ Also, Pope John Paul II accepted Evolution as fact.
// Both my priests have told me that a lot of the Old Testament should be considered an allegory, for example, some of Genesis, among others.


She's right you know, Bill Maher has an interview with a Vatican Scholar (or something) in Religilous where he admits that the Catholic Church acknowledges evolution and that the earth is 4.5 billion years old.

So they are reasonable and logical people who want you to give them your money and power in exchange for fairy-tales and denial of birth control.

/why aren't you a member
////here are some slashes for your enjoyment.
 
2012-09-19 01:02:18 AM

nmemkha: GhostFish: Jedekai: The process of how God created the animals is the same pattern as evolution.

What? No.

The Bible depicts God as creating sea life and birds at the same time, before land animals.

No.

Lost in translation. Look this Wikipedia page for some clarity.

I could misinterpret Evolution and say something stupid like "Darwin says I am a monkey!". If I write down and back it with authority then it starts to be bandied about like representative of the content of the original text. 

Besides, Christians should spend more time in the New Testament and less time in the old. Jesus himself alluded that the rabbinical authorities corrupted the intent of His father's teachings with selfish laws and tenets they "lawyered" around the core truth.

It hard to argue that not stealing and murdering (Old Testament) and being selfless, loving, and kind to others (New Testament) is not a good way to live your life. Too bad so many "Christians" act more like Pharisees (the Jewish leaders whose accusations led to Christ's crucifixion) who claim to be good and holy, but are actually apathetic hypocrites who live in luxury on the backs of the impoverished.


Wrong, you didn't even read the bible did you? In Matthew 5: 17-19 Jesus clearly states he come to totally enforce the law, and that he wouldn't remove a single dot from the texts.

/Jesus was a hate monger.
//Just look at his modern day followers
 
2012-09-19 01:13:31 AM

Darth_Lukecash: ZAZ: But to study this sort of thing properly you need to work with the original material, not an English translation or even a Greek translation.

You are gonna run into a lot of problems with that one...Since I believe the earliest versions are either in Roman or Greek.

Kids, Thanks Emperor Constantine for having the Council of Nicaea burn any "unorthodox" books 

[upload.wikimedia.org image 300x389] 

(And Santa Claus, cause he punched out another bishop for claiming that Jesus wasn't part of The Word)


According to Gibbon, it was his sons that really got the book-burning started. They also enjoyed having anti-Nicean bishops assassinated; something the Copts were certainly aware of judging from how many Bishops of Alexandria ended up hacked to pieces in the street, or stabbed to death at international religious conferences as a result. Fun stuff; weird how the late Roman politics angle always seems to get dropped when the Christian talk about their history, Gibbon's venerable example excepted.

Most of the stuff I've read about Constantine doesn't paint him as a particularly strong believer. In fact, the Christians have rather successfully propagandized him in popular imagination as the one who declared Christianity the official religion of the Empire, when in reality all he did was declare a general toleration of Christianity and other sects persecuted for non-compliance with Roman civic ritual mandates. Even the appellation as "First Christian Emperor" ought to be taken with a grain of salt given that there is no conversion date to be found in the historical record, no date of baptism, no Christian name, and that this "Christian Emperor" not only protected and patronized the older faiths, but also used the power of the state to force Christians to celebrate certain pagan holidays he favored, such as that of the Roman Sun God. You aren't likely to find many other figures, living or dead, who worship other gods yet whom Christians claim.
 
2012-09-19 01:19:34 AM
Researchers later discovered an even older manuscript, one in which Jesus said his wife's coffee was grounds for divorce.

/I'll be here all week.
//Because I'm up on this farking cross.
 
2012-09-19 01:23:02 AM

indylaw: Here's what I'm not getting from the article, and I presume that it's explained in the upcoming journal article, but how does this professor know that the text which she is putting forth isn't simply an Egyptian heretic? There was no shortage of Christians in Europe who believed all sorts of things that didn't make it into the canon. Maybe this was just an Egyptian gnostic text. Maybe that's why it was cut out.

Hell, I could write today some account of what I felt Jesus ought to have said and call it the Gospel of Indy, and 1600 years hence they might dig it up, but that doesn't mean it's representative of normative 21st century Christianity.


"Heretic" implies a set, defined dogma. Before Nicaea, there was no real over-arching organization to speak of to the church; each Bishopric ran itself the way, and supported the gospels(and boy were there a lot of them), it wanted to, Even after Nicaea this didn't really change until the power of the Roman state began to be used to persecute people who opposed the Council's decisions(and boy were there a lot of them, too). Until the councils these people weren't heretics; they were practitioners of centuries-old Christian traditions. The councils and the weight of secular Roman law which backed them is what made the Gnostics and the Arians and all the hundreds of other sects heretics; not their doctrines.
 
2012-09-19 01:31:06 AM

StymieMotJuste: nmemkha: GhostFish: Jedekai: The process of how God created the animals is the same pattern as evolution.

What? No.

The Bible depicts God as creating sea life and birds at the same time, before land animals.

No.

Lost in translation. Look this Wikipedia page for some clarity.

I could misinterpret Evolution and say something stupid like "Darwin says I am a monkey!". If I write down and back it with authority then it starts to be bandied about like representative of the content of the original text. 

Besides, Christians should spend more time in the New Testament and less time in the old. Jesus himself alluded that the rabbinical authorities corrupted the intent of His father's teachings with selfish laws and tenets they "lawyered" around the core truth.

It hard to argue that not stealing and murdering (Old Testament) and being selfless, loving, and kind to others (New Testament) is not a good way to live your life. Too bad so many "Christians" act more like Pharisees (the Jewish leaders whose accusations led to Christ's crucifixion) who claim to be good and holy, but are actually apathetic hypocrites who live in luxury on the backs of the impoverished.

Wrong, you didn't even read the bible did you? In Matthew 5: 17-19 Jesus clearly states he come to totally enforce the law, and that he wouldn't remove a single dot from the texts.

/Jesus was a hate monger.
//Just look at his modern day followers


Yes he did say that, but He was referring to His father's law and not the Jewish bylaws. But, believe whatever you want. That's your right and responsibility.
 
2012-09-19 01:32:46 AM

ZAZ: Old news. Not because it was written over 1,000 years ago, but because this is a previously known heresy / alternative history of Jesus.

Did it say wife or "partner"?

Interesting question, possibly one one whose answer was already lost in translation at the time.

Driving to Ohio I heard awful Christian radio with the usual shouting sermons. When I got into the Great Plains, more or less, the religious programming turned interesting at times. One of the programs was about inferring the existence of ancient divorce from the trichotomy of unmarried people in one book the Bible. There were words for never-married, widowed, and a third class. The third class is not never married and not widowed, so presumably divorced. But to study this sort of thing properly you need to work with the original material, not an English translation or even a Greek translation.



Was it this guy? 

Used to sometimes catch him on the local cable. Apparently knew Greek, Aramaic and Hebrew and would lecture the live and TV audiences while scribbling in all three languages, and English, on a chalkboard, often saying why the Bible was wrong in particular instances. Then he would glare at the TV camera and growl "Send money!"
 
2012-09-19 01:51:15 AM

Refudiated Strategerist: Before the Christian Right™ will believe it they will want to see the long form papyrus.


Now that is actually funny.

+10
 
2012-09-19 01:53:19 AM

Jedekai: Refudiated Strategerist: Before the Christian Right™ will believe it they will want to see the long form papyrus.

As a member of the Protestant Libertarians (Luther would've been one): The Christian Right looks more like "Stormtroopers for the 8% of his life that we recognize".

FUN FACT: "A day is like a millennium, and a millennium is like a day" is a line from God in the bible. The process of how God created the animals is the same pattern as evolution. Mary Magdalene is almost certainly Jesus' wife. Jesus calls himself the "Son of Man" not "Son of God" until the crucifixion. Even the Catholic Church has stated in the past that Jesus didn't become The Messiah until he died, and that the miracles he performed were divine, but not sacrosanct.

Bring this shiat up the next time some Young-Earth Creationist tries to argue against both Intelligent Design *AND* Evolution.

/"In the beginning there was the WORD, and the WORD was "El ohim" (The Light). And He said "Let There Be Light!" and there was."... sounds a lot like the Big Bang, huh? AMUSE YOUR BLIND SHEEP FRIENDS!
//Then bring up "Why aren't all the Apostles books in the Bible? For that matter, how come the Book of Enoch isn't even considered Apocrypha? What about the books written AFTER the Visions of John (Revelations)?".
///I. LOVE. Watching people with BLIND FAITH twitch. If you have no philosophy to your religion, you are EVERYTHING Jesus said not to be.


And THAT is smart.

+10
 
2012-09-19 01:58:49 AM
Jesus being married would make more sense than him not being married given he's referred to as a rabbi.
 
2012-09-19 01:59:45 AM

Rockstone: digitalrain: Jedekai:
FUN FACT: "A day is like a millennium, and a millennium is like a day" is a line from God in the bible. The process of how God created the animals is the same pattern as evolution. Mary Magdalene is almost certainly Jesus' wife. Jesus calls himself the "Son of Man" not "Son of God" until the crucifixion. Even the Catholic Church has stated in the past that Jesus didn't become The Messiah until he died, and that the miracles he performed were divine, but not sacrosanct.

Bring this shiat up the next time some Young-Earth Creationist tries to argue against both Intelligent Design *AND* Evolution.

THANK YOU! I've been saying this for YEARS. I'm Catholic, but I don't believe that evolution and intelligent
design are mutually exclusive. Whenever one of my fellow Catholics sputters about God doing X on the first
day, Y on the second day, etc... My response is always "You're assuming that 'a day' as it was referenced
in Genesis was our 24-hour period.

I usually get looked at funny.

/ conflicted Catholic

I'm also a Catholic. I've rarely found people in my parish who deny evolution.

(Actually, if you read the Catholic Encyclopedia of 1912, Evolution is supported there as well [although not in as strong terms])

/ Also, Pope John Paul II accepted Evolution as fact.
// Both my priests have told me that a lot of the Old Testament should be considered an allegory, for example, some of Genesis, among others.


Fun fact quiz: Can anyone name the profession of the first scientist to theorize (with math and physics and shiat) about the Big Bang?
 
2012-09-19 02:11:40 AM

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Fun fact quiz: Can anyone name the profession of the first scientist to theorize (with math and physics and shiat) about the Big Bang?


Well his full title and name was Father George Lemaitre....
 
2012-09-19 02:27:07 AM

nmemkha: StymieMotJuste: nmemkha: GhostFish: Jedekai: The process of how God created the animals is the same pattern as evolution.

What? No.

The Bible depicts God as creating sea life and birds at the same time, before land animals.

No.

Lost in translation. Look this Wikipedia page for some clarity.

I could misinterpret Evolution and say something stupid like "Darwin says I am a monkey!". If I write down and back it with authority then it starts to be bandied about like representative of the content of the original text. 

Besides, Christians should spend more time in the New Testament and less time in the old. Jesus himself alluded that the rabbinical authorities corrupted the intent of His father's teachings with selfish laws and tenets they "lawyered" around the core truth.

It hard to argue that not stealing and murdering (Old Testament) and being selfless, loving, and kind to others (New Testament) is not a good way to live your life. Too bad so many "Christians" act more like Pharisees (the Jewish leaders whose accusations led to Christ's crucifixion) who claim to be good and holy, but are actually apathetic hypocrites who live in luxury on the backs of the impoverished.

Wrong, you didn't even read the bible did you? In Matthew 5: 17-19 Jesus clearly states he come to totally enforce the law, and that he wouldn't remove a single dot from the texts.

/Jesus was a hate monger.
//Just look at his modern day followers

Yes he did say that, but He was referring to His father's law and not the Jewish bylaws. But, believe whatever you want. That's your right and responsibility.


You are believing whatever you want. There is no text to support what you are saying, (that there is some sort of delineation between God's laws and Jewish laws). And, Luke 16:17 reiterates the fact that Jesus came to enforce the law of the Jews.

Believe whatever you want, it's your right, but you could never prove what you are saying using just the bible.
 
2012-09-19 03:42:16 AM

StymieMotJuste: nmemkha: StymieMotJuste: nmemkha: GhostFish: Jedekai: The process of how God created the animals is the same pattern as evolution.

What? No.

The Bible depicts God as creating sea life and birds at the same time, before land animals.

No.

Lost in translation. Look this Wikipedia page for some clarity.

I could misinterpret Evolution and say something stupid like "Darwin says I am a monkey!". If I write down and back it with authority then it starts to be bandied about like representative of the content of the original text. 

Besides, Christians should spend more time in the New Testament and less time in the old. Jesus himself alluded that the rabbinical authorities corrupted the intent of His father's teachings with selfish laws and tenets they "lawyered" around the core truth.

It hard to argue that not stealing and murdering (Old Testament) and being selfless, loving, and kind to others (New Testament) is not a good way to live your life. Too bad so many "Christians" act more like Pharisees (the Jewish leaders whose accusations led to Christ's crucifixion) who claim to be good and holy, but are actually apathetic hypocrites who live in luxury on the backs of the impoverished.

Wrong, you didn't even read the bible did you? In Matthew 5: 17-19 Jesus clearly states he come to totally enforce the law, and that he wouldn't remove a single dot from the texts.

/Jesus was a hate monger.
//Just look at his modern day followers

Yes he did say that, but He was referring to His father's law and not the Jewish bylaws. But, believe whatever you want. That's your right and responsibility.

You are believing whatever you want. There is no text to support what you are saying, (that there is some sort of delineation between God's laws and Jewish laws). And, Luke 16:17 reiterates the fact that Jesus came to enforce the law of the Jews.

Believe whatever you want, it's your right, but you could never prove what you are saying using just the bible.


And he said unto them, "Full well do you reject the commandment of God, in order to keep your tradition. For Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother; and, He that speaks evil of father or mother, let him die the death': but you say, 'If a man shall say to his father or his mother, That wherewith you might have been profited by me is Corban,' that is to say, Given to God; you no longer allow him to do anything for his father or his mother; making void the word of God by your tradition, which you have delivered: and many such like things you do" (Mark 7:1-13).
 
2012-09-19 04:13:34 AM
 
2012-09-19 04:46:34 AM

nmemkha: StymieMotJuste: nmemkha: StymieMotJuste: nmemkha: GhostFish: Jedekai: The process of how God created the animals is the same pattern as evolution.

What? No.

The Bible depicts God as creating sea life and birds at the same time, before land animals.

No.

Lost in translation. Look this Wikipedia page for some clarity.

I could misinterpret Evolution and say something stupid like "Darwin says I am a monkey!". If I write down and back it with authority then it starts to be bandied about like representative of the content of the original text. 

Besides, Christians should spend more time in the New Testament and less time in the old. Jesus himself alluded that the rabbinical authorities corrupted the intent of His father's teachings with selfish laws and tenets they "lawyered" around the core truth.

It hard to argue that not stealing and murdering (Old Testament) and being selfless, loving, and kind to others (New Testament) is not a good way to live your life. Too bad so many "Christians" act more like Pharisees (the Jewish leaders whose accusations led to Christ's crucifixion) who claim to be good and holy, but are actually apathetic hypocrites who live in luxury on the backs of the impoverished.

Wrong, you didn't even read the bible did you? In Matthew 5: 17-19 Jesus clearly states he come to totally enforce the law, and that he wouldn't remove a single dot from the texts.

/Jesus was a hate monger.
//Just look at his modern day followers

Yes he did say that, but He was referring to His father's law and not the Jewish bylaws. But, believe whatever you want. That's your right and responsibility.

You are believing whatever you want. There is no text to support what you are saying, (that there is some sort of delineation between God's laws and Jewish laws). And, Luke 16:17 reiterates the fact that Jesus came to enforce the law of the Jews.

Believe whatever you want, it's your right, but you could never prove what you are saying using just the bible.

And he sai ...


Your text supports what I am saying. The Jews developed traditions that went against the laws of god, like obey your father and mother. They decided that making a profit was more important than god's laws. So Jesus is enforcing all the old testament laws in Mark 7 : 1-13. He is against upholding tradition.

Look at what you typed in bold: You reject the commandment of God(old testament laws) in order to keep your traditions (making a profit).
 
2012-09-19 05:55:59 AM

StymieMotJuste: nmemkha: StymieMotJuste: nmemkha: StymieMotJuste: nmemkha: GhostFish: Jedekai: The process of how God created the animals is the same pattern as evolution.

What? No.

The Bible depicts God as creating sea life and birds at the same time, before land animals.

No.

Lost in translation. Look this Wikipedia page for some clarity.

I could misinterpret Evolution and say something stupid like "Darwin says I am a monkey!". If I write down and back it with authority then it starts to be bandied about like representative of the content of the original text. 

Besides, Christians should spend more time in the New Testament and less time in the old. Jesus himself alluded that the rabbinical authorities corrupted the intent of His father's teachings with selfish laws and tenets they "lawyered" around the core truth.

It hard to argue that not stealing and murdering (Old Testament) and being selfless, loving, and kind to others (New Testament) is not a good way to live your life. Too bad so many "Christians" act more like Pharisees (the Jewish leaders whose accusations led to Christ's crucifixion) who claim to be good and holy, but are actually apathetic hypocrites who live in luxury on the backs of the impoverished.

Wrong, you didn't even read the bible did you? In Matthew 5: 17-19 Jesus clearly states he come to totally enforce the law, and that he wouldn't remove a single dot from the texts.

/Jesus was a hate monger.
//Just look at his modern day followers

Yes he did say that, but He was referring to His father's law and not the Jewish bylaws. But, believe whatever you want. That's your right and responsibility.

You are believing whatever you want. There is no text to support what you are saying, (that there is some sort of delineation between God's laws and Jewish laws). And, Luke 16:17 reiterates the fact that Jesus came to enforce the law of the Jews.

Believe whatever you want, it's your right, but you could never prove what you are saying using just the bible.

A ...


Well I guess it boils down into what you consider "tradition" in Old Testament and what you consider "Divine Law". You don't know, I don't know. Either we will find out when we die or will be just wink out of existence it it won't matter.

It hate is what you take from Jesus's message then so be it. It is not what I found.
 
2012-09-19 06:27:16 AM

omnibus_necanda_sunt: digitalrain: 0Icky0: digitalrain: I'm Catholic, but I don't believe that evolution and intelligent design are mutually exclusive.

Then you don't understand evolution.

No, I understand it quite well, thanks. Mind you, I don't believe in the Big Bang theory. I also don't think
that God woke up on Day 5 and created the sea and flying critters, took nap and then woke up the next
day and decided to create man and other land dwelling critters.

Existing evidence (archaeological finds, similarities between species, etc...) seems to lend credence to
the notion that evolution is real, but I also believe that God as Creator is real.

I think that the referenced "day" was actually a much longer time frame than the 24 hour period we all
assume it to be. I like to think that God created the raw materials with the intent that they would evolve
over time - with each evolutionary milestone being "a day".

Just my own thoughts. YMMV, and that's cool too.

You know, you're a million times better than most Republicans, but I'm still going to have to take you to task here.

You're making up things that aren't in the Bible to support an intermediate position that is logically untenable and needlessly complex.

If you aren't going to use the Bible as guidance, why bother with God at all? Why not Krishna or Thor? Or nothing at all?


What am I making up? The part about a day not being a 24-hour period?

From 2 Peter 3:8:

"But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years,
and a thousand years as one day."

Given the number of times the bible has been translated, re-translated, re-re-translated, and revised,
there are some aspects of it that I take with a grain of salt. Interpretations change over the course of
1400+ years.

There's a 1500 year old bible in Turkey, written in a dialect of Aramaic, that the Vatican is trying to
get a hold of to examine. I would *love* to see how current iterations of the bible differ from this one.

It would be interesting.
 
2012-09-19 06:32:52 AM

nmemkha: StymieMotJuste: nmemkha: StymieMotJuste: nmemkha: StymieMotJuste: nmemkha: GhostFish: Jedekai: The process of how God created the animals is the same pattern as evolution.

What? No.

The Bible depicts God as creating sea life and birds at the same time, before land animals.

No.

Lost in translation. Look this Wikipedia page for some clarity.

I could misinterpret Evolution and say something stupid like "Darwin says I am a monkey!". If I write down and back it with authority then it starts to be bandied about like representative of the content of the original text. 

Besides, Christians should spend more time in the New Testament and less time in the old. Jesus himself alluded that the rabbinical authorities corrupted the intent of His father's teachings with selfish laws and tenets they "lawyered" around the core truth.

It hard to argue that not stealing and murdering (Old Testament) and being selfless, loving, and kind to others (New Testament) is not a good way to live your life. Too bad so many "Christians" act more like Pharisees (the Jewish leaders whose accusations led to Christ's crucifixion) who claim to be good and holy, but are actually apathetic hypocrites who live in luxury on the backs of the impoverished.

Wrong, you didn't even read the bible did you? In Matthew 5: 17-19 Jesus clearly states he come to totally enforce the law, and that he wouldn't remove a single dot from the texts.

/Jesus was a hate monger.
//Just look at his modern day followers

Yes he did say that, but He was referring to His father's law and not the Jewish bylaws. But, believe whatever you want. That's your right and responsibility.

You are believing whatever you want. There is no text to support what you are saying, (that there is some sort of delineation between God's laws and Jewish laws). And, Luke 16:17 reiterates the fact that Jesus came to enforce the law of the Jews.

Believe whatever you want, it's your right, but you could never prove what you are saying using ju ...


Hate is what I observe from the followers of jesus. Hate is what religion causes mankind to feel. It divides people. There's nothing divine about it.
 
2012-09-19 07:00:36 AM

digitalrain: omnibus_necanda_sunt: digitalrain: 0Icky0: digitalrain: I'm Catholic, but I don't believe that evolution and intelligent design are mutually exclusive.

Then you don't understand evolution.

No, I understand it quite well, thanks. Mind you, I don't believe in the Big Bang theory. I also don't think
that God woke up on Day 5 and created the sea and flying critters, took nap and then woke up the next
day and decided to create man and other land dwelling critters.

Existing evidence (archaeological finds, similarities between species, etc...) seems to lend credence to
the notion that evolution is real, but I also believe that God as Creator is real.

I think that the referenced "day" was actually a much longer time frame than the 24 hour period we all
assume it to be. I like to think that God created the raw materials with the intent that they would evolve
over time - with each evolutionary milestone being "a day".

Just my own thoughts. YMMV, and that's cool too.

You know, you're a million times better than most Republicans, but I'm still going to have to take you to task here.

You're making up things that aren't in the Bible to support an intermediate position that is logically untenable and needlessly complex.

If you aren't going to use the Bible as guidance, why bother with God at all? Why not Krishna or Thor? Or nothing at all?

What am I making up? The part about a day not being a 24-hour period?

From 2 Peter 3:8:

"But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years,
and a thousand years as one day."

Given the number of times the bible has been translated, re-translated, re-re-translated, and revised,
there are some aspects of it that I take with a grain of salt. Interpretations change over the course of
1400+ years.



The quote from Peter really isn't relevant to the story from Genesis, though. Looking at the context of that verse shows it refers to having to wait on the second coming of Jesus:

3 Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4 They will say, "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation." ...

8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.


Your take on the story of Genesis is a form of Old Earth creationism called Day-Age Creationism, which is not part of the Church's stance on evolution. These days, the Catholic Church holds a philosophical view that is (maybe not surprisingly) intelligent design-oriented, though that angle doesn't make it into science classes in Catholic schools, since the Church has no interest these days in disputing science. What's taught in school is straight-up evolutionary theory.

/survivor of all-girls Catholic high school
// has a nephew currently taking biology in Catholic school
 
2012-09-19 07:18:22 AM

StymieMotJuste: Hate is what religion causes mankind to feel. It divides people. There's nothing divine about it.


imagemacros.files.wordpress.com

I'm sure a lot of people may agree with you, but I don't.
 
2012-09-19 07:53:54 AM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: czetie: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Not sure I trust Coptic documents on major religious figures...

You know how I know you didn't RTFA?

You know how I know you have no sense of humor?


You know how I know you're furiously backpedaling?
 
2012-09-19 08:40:37 AM

The All-Powerful Atheismo: RexTalionis: SphericalTime: "Companion."

Verily, I haveth companions who reside in faraway lands

[cdn.motinetwork.net image 640x853]


Its missing the apostrophe in I've and has a comma where it should not?

Some men just want to watch the world burn.
 
2012-09-19 08:52:52 AM

KillAllHumans: This just in: Only one guy in the history of forever was named Jesus


If I recall correctly, Jesus is just the modern evolved term for what was, basically, "Joshua"
 
2012-09-19 08:59:21 AM
Wife: And just where do you think you are going?
Jesus: To the square to go preaching with my friends.
Wife: Oh no you don't, you're not hanging around with that bunch of unemployed bums you call apostles when there is work to be done here. Son of a carpenter, my ass, the door hasn't fit for months now and all you do is go to the square to preach crap.
Jesus: But I am the Son of God!
Wife: Son of God! Son of God! Look you may have that band of idiots fooled but you are not fooling anyone else, now get your tools and start working on that door!
Jesus: Sorry guys, I can't make it today.
 
2012-09-19 09:01:33 AM
FYI BBC is about to cover this on NPR.
 
2012-09-19 09:12:51 AM

LavenderWolf: KillAllHumans: This just in: Only one guy in the history of forever was named Jesus

If I recall correctly, Jesus is just the modern evolved term for what was, basically, "Joshua"


Other way around. At the time Jesus of Nazareth was named, "Jesus" was an obsolescent form of "Joshua", and an unusual name to have given somebody at a time. Of course, it's come back into vogue since then for some reason.

Personally, I still don't understand why they named him Jesus when the angel very clearly instructed Mary to name him "Emmanuel".
 
2012-09-19 09:45:56 AM
www.papermag.com
 
2012-09-19 09:53:30 AM
So? The author saw that the first novel was popular, so he wrote a sequel. Happens all the time.
 
2012-09-19 10:18:09 AM

Mjeck: It always bothered me that Judas got the raw end. I love the Gospel of Judas; Judas and Jesus are best friends! And Judas is the only one that understands Jeuss' true nature, and He entrusts Judas with the sacred job of betraying him; so that it would be done properly!

Love that book


And the Gospel of John out and out calls him a chisler who stole from the common purse, and his last name is probably properly rendered as the Latin word for Assassian, which meant he belonged to a radical "terrorist" faction of Judaism. If you accept that derivation of his name, it leads to an interesting bit of theological speculation that Judas' motive for betraying Jesus was not greed, but an attempt to essenitally force Jesus' hand and make him get his Messiah on (which his faction saw as an invincible military leader who would wipe the Romans and Herod out of Judea) and make with the smiting already.
 
2012-09-19 10:28:13 AM

digitalrain: Jedekai:
FUN FACT: "A day is like a millennium, and a millennium is like a day" is a line from God in the bible. The process of how God created the animals is the same pattern as evolution. Mary Magdalene is almost certainly Jesus' wife. Jesus calls himself the "Son of Man" not "Son of God" until the crucifixion. Even the Catholic Church has stated in the past that Jesus didn't become The Messiah until he died, and that the miracles he performed were divine, but not sacrosanct.

Bring this shiat up the next time some Young-Earth Creationist tries to argue against both Intelligent Design *AND* Evolution.

THANK YOU! I've been saying this for YEARS. I'm Catholic, but I don't believe that evolution and intelligent
design are mutually exclusive. Whenever one of my fellow Catholics sputters about God doing X on the first
day, Y on the second day, etc... My response is always "You're assuming that 'a day' as it was referenced
in Genesis was our 24-hour period.

I usually get looked at funny.

/ conflicted Catholic


Be at peace, the Vatican has your back on this one. I got my own conflicts with Benny and the Jets (cardinals) but thier current positions of physical science are not one of them. Evolution is regarded by the church as unassailable fact, and thanks largely to the Jesuits, there have been many important discoveries in Physics and Biology made by guys wearing roman collars.

My personal theology: God created the Universe, but in his wisdom and mercy he did so by first creating the laws of physics and then meticulously following them in the process of creation. He did this so that such intelligent life as evolved in that universe, could one day understand how he did it, and take control of their universe.

Imho, the parabable of the Gardenof Eden is a religious interpretation of the moment that humans evolved into sentience (Only human action can truly be said to have a moral dimension since only humans have the conscious choice to act or not act, and understand the implications of both choices- thus the "forbidden tree" was labeled "The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil") and it is important to note that the "Snake" didn't lie to Adam and Eve, to evolved sentience was truly to become like God
 
2012-09-19 10:32:22 AM

Lady Beryl Ersatz-Wendigo: Does Jesus become corrupted by Chaos and turn against his Father in this document, or is that from a later version?


That's the later version in episode 3.
 
2012-09-19 10:39:10 AM

0Icky0: digitalrain: I'm Catholic, but I don't believe that evolution and intelligent design are mutually exclusive.

Then you don't understand evolution.


I know I understand evolution perfectly, but I also believe in a God that is beyond time space and both ominoptent AND omniescent. That means I have no problem accepting that he is capable of timing the precise moment of the big bang in such a way that the resulting particle mix meant that stars and galaxies we now see were the inevitable result of that explosion and that he was capable of foresseing and planning precisely the planets that coalesced from those stars, and even the interesction of proteins in the primordial stews that formed on those worlds to create life, and that With the physical laws he put in place, he foreknew that each animal would evolve from the last in precisely the sequence they did leading to the creation of humanity (and who knows how many other forms of intelligent life in the galaxy)

As Jesus himself said "not a sparrow falls from the sky without my Father noticing"
 
2012-09-19 10:41:14 AM

Magorn: Mjeck: It always bothered me that Judas got the raw end. I love the Gospel of Judas; Judas and Jesus are best friends! And Judas is the only one that understands Jeuss' true nature, and He entrusts Judas with the sacred job of betraying him; so that it would be done properly!

Love that book

And the Gospel of John out and out calls him a chisler who stole from the common purse, and his last name is probably properly rendered as the Latin word for Assassian, which meant he belonged to a radical "terrorist" faction of Judaism. If you accept that derivation of his name, it leads to an interesting bit of theological speculation that Judas' motive for betraying Jesus was not greed, but an attempt to essenitally force Jesus' hand and make him get his Messiah on (which his faction saw as an invincible military leader who would wipe the Romans and Herod out of Judea) and make with the smiting already.


The assassins didn't really form until about 1000 A.D.
 
2012-09-19 10:43:27 AM

Magorn: 0Icky0: digitalrain: I'm Catholic, but I don't believe that evolution and intelligent design are mutually exclusive.

Then you don't understand evolution.

I know I understand evolution perfectly, but I also believe in a God that is beyond time space and both ominoptent AND omniescent. That means I have no problem accepting that he is capable of timing the precise moment of the big bang in such a way that the resulting particle mix meant that stars and galaxies we now see were the inevitable result of that explosion and that he was capable of foresseing and planning precisely the planets that coalesced from those stars, and even the interesction of proteins in the primordial stews that formed on those worlds to create life, and that With the physical laws he put in place, he foreknew that each animal would evolve from the last in precisely the sequence they did leading to the creation of humanity (and who knows how many other forms of intelligent life in the galaxy)

As Jesus himself said "not a sparrow falls from the sky without my Father noticing"


So do you believe in free will?

How can free will exist if God knows every action to ever happen. You can't change God's knowledge.

Either we have free will and sin is an issue, or God knows everything and our actions are predetermined, and we hold no responsibility for them, and Hell is an arbitrary punishment based on who God feels like smiting.
 
2012-09-19 10:53:46 AM
Once more for the dummies

(and let's get this out of the way first - despite it being so obvious that it hardly need be stated)
There is no god.
All phenomena are natural and explainable.
There is no such thing as "supernatural" (sorry - no god, fairies, spirits, devils, spells, magic, chi, ghosts, ufos, astrology or any other such nonsesnse).
Anyone trying to tell you different is just scamming you for money and/or obedience.


Now regarding Jesus.
He was the rightful King of Israel - but just a normal man.
Herod was a usurper and had him killed.
Jesus had a wife whose name was Mary.
Jesus had kids.


Regarding Christianity
Paul invented Christianity
Christianity was popular among the slaves of the roman empire.
It was promoted as the state religion as a last ditch attempt to save the roman empire.
Obviously it is all a scam....but one that has managed to perpetuate for 2000 years.

Lets forget about this idea of religion and concentrate on more important things ie reality.......
Roman Catholicism blended the roman state religion with the slave religion of christianity.
 
2012-09-19 10:59:23 AM
Mormons believe that Jesus was married. Same with Heavenly Father.
 
2012-09-19 11:02:19 AM

Girion47: Magorn: 0Icky0: digitalrain: I'm Catholic, but I don't believe that evolution and intelligent design are mutually exclusive.

Then you don't understand evolution.

I know I understand evolution perfectly, but I also believe in a God that is beyond time space and both ominoptent AND omniescent. That means I have no problem accepting that he is capable of timing the precise moment of the big bang in such a way that the resulting particle mix meant that stars and galaxies we now see were the inevitable result of that explosion and that he was capable of foresseing and planning precisely the planets that coalesced from those stars, and even the interesction of proteins in the primordial stews that formed on those worlds to create life, and that With the physical laws he put in place, he foreknew that each animal would evolve from the last in precisely the sequence they did leading to the creation of humanity (and who knows how many other forms of intelligent life in the galaxy)

As Jesus himself said "not a sparrow falls from the sky without my Father noticing"

So do you believe in free will?

How can free will exist if God knows every action to ever happen. You can't change God's knowledge.

Either we have free will and sin is an issue, or God knows everything and our actions are predetermined, and we hold no responsibility for them, and Hell is an arbitrary punishment based on who God feels like smiting.


As an old Jesuit of My acquaintence used to explain it: We are Free to choose whatever we will, it's the foundation of God's interaction with man. However, since Gid is also a perfect judge of human nature and each and every one of us individually, he also knows WHAT we will choose before we do.

I'm not so absolutist. I see a better metaphor to be that of a master chess player playing with sentient pieces. He'd Prefer you follow the moves he's mapped out for you, but that's up to you. However for each postion you take on the board he is also capabale fo figuring out the ideal end game from that position as well.

Oh and for the record, the only Hell I believe in is the CS Lewis version: a voluntary separation from God. That even in death God does not depriveus of free wil, in that he wants our sould to return to the Great communion with him but he is not willing to force the issue so we can choose to refuse, and from the perspective of those on the inside of the communion, the awful isolation and lonlieness of that choice seems horrible.

"Sin" to me is nothing more than making sub-optimal choices. None of those things seen as sins hurts GOD in any way, but all of them are things that hurt either ourselves or our fellow man; something we will regret either in this life or the next when we are given the total perspective of the impact of our actions
 
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