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(NPR)   'Muslim Rage' explodes on Twitter. Hilarity ensues   (npr.org) divider line 379
    More: Amusing, Hilarity Ensues, Twitter, cults, Ayaan Hirsi Ali  
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23735 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Sep 2012 at 10:04 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-18 02:56:30 PM  
"The difference is that we ridicule and marginalize ours."


That's harsh. I smile at them, pat them on the head, and hurry out of their way.
 
2012-09-18 02:57:42 PM  

Stile4aly: liam76: Stile4aly: I would disagree that there is no non-fundamentalist movement within Islam

What branch of Islam doesn't take the Koran as the direct word of God?

What branch of Christianity doesn't take the Bible as the inspired word of God.


Don't be dishonest.

Stile4aly: All religions take their holy texts as divine writ, why is Islam special in this case?


Deism?

There is the Catholic stance that the bible is the innerant word of god only on matters of faith (ie evolution, etc are ok).

In the 70's evangelicals got together in Chicago to declare the bible inerrant becasue of the fast growing christian belief that it was not.

Nevermind the whole split you mentioned earlier in this thread when I brought up fundamenatlists that arose from christians not looking at the bible as the direct word of God.

Stile4aly: Likewise, you'll find cafeteria Muslims in the West (I'm one of them).


What major school of Islamic thought backs that belief?

Stile4aly: A pedo warlord... Get bent


He didn't bone a 9yr old? He didn't lead a war band?

Not a good student of your faith, are you?
 
2012-09-18 03:00:33 PM  

Stile4aly: I want to participate in a funny thread about Islam, but can't because there are too many trolls and I feel compelled to defend my religionI get butthurt when people bring up that Mo banged his 9yr old bride and led people in battle.#MUSLIMRAGE


FTFY
 
2012-09-18 03:02:17 PM  

liam76: modesto: liam76:


Over the lasy 1.5 years all othe rpoints int he city have been drinking?

I am going to go ahead and call BS on that.


Check it out, dog. Bars and clubs all over town.


modesto: 2. Most people couldn't give two shiats about this film, and many are angry and ashamed of the (again....VERY few) who made a big deal out of it, and how they knew it would play on TV and make "Egypt" look. Admittedly, my sample is not huge here. That attitude was certainly the consensus amongst my dozen or so local friends, and amplified ad nauseum on social media. Also, a cab driver passing by the clashes on my way home (after asking me about the roads in america, and saying what good people we are....you get that a lot) shook his head and said "stupid." I add this because taxi drivers are notoriously reliable bellwethers of all things political here for saying things that they think won't hurt their tips.

FTFY.

Right. I'm sure he was internally seething with rage and just making pleasant small talk to placate me while he tried to plot my beheading in a moving vehicle.

It is great that you have a dozen or so friends that think this whole thing is stupid, but the overwhelming majortiy of Egyptians support the death penatly for blasphemy.


Cite?

modesto: 3. This stuff is complex. There are a lot more variables than christian vs. islam, arabs vs. americans. Also, being opposed to American foreign policy in the region does ... 

If you don't think that Mubarak stayed in power because of US backing, you are simply uninformed.
 
2012-09-18 03:03:02 PM  
Got cut off in the fast lane. Reaching for Glock in glove box. #roadrage
 
2012-09-18 03:18:00 PM  

Ryker's Peninsula: Got cut off in the fast lane. Reaching for Glock in glove box. #roadrage


Got ganked in PVP. #RogueRage

/sorry, just had to :D
 
2012-09-18 03:21:44 PM  

modesto: liam76: modesto: liam76:


Over the lasy 1.5 years all othe rpoints int he city have been drinking?

I am going to go ahead and call BS on that.

Check it out, dog. Bars and clubs all over town.


Look how many are in hotels.

How many of those not in hotels serve booze during Ramadan?


Still wondering why you didn't answer what you are doing there, when you thought it was so important for everyone else who weighed in.


modesto:
Right. I'm sure he was internally seething with rage and just making pleasant small talk to placate me while he tried to plot my beheading in a moving vehicle.

Why do you feel the need to make shiat up instead of responding to what I said. He wanted a bigger tip. You are likely going to tip more if he says how much he likes the US. Expecting honesty out of a cab driver on his feelings towards your country is like expecting honesty out of a hooker on how you kiss.

modesto: Cite?


But when asked about how the new government would be run, about 62% of polled said they want society to strictly follow the Quran.

At least three-quarters of Muslims in Egypt (86%, mentioned later in article)and Pakistan say they would favor making each of the following the law in their countries: stoning people who commit adultery, whippings and cutting off of hands for crimes like theft and robbery and the death penalty for those who leave the Muslim religion.


modesto: If you don't think that Mubarak stayed in power because of US backing, you are simply uninformed


If we had cut all aid, yes he would have lost power, but that is because the poeple would be starving, not because we were directly propping him up. We stop aid and he was still the most powerful guy there with a stangle hold on all parts of the govt.

This is where that whole "black and white" issue comes into play, which you are apprently fine with if it suits you.
 
2012-09-18 03:23:28 PM  

liam76: But when asked about how the new government would be run, about 62% of polled said they want society to strictly follow the Quran


hmmm

Don't know why it threw out this link.

http://moderatemuslimvoices.blogspot.com/2011/04/pew-research-poll-on - egypt.html
 
2012-09-18 03:30:06 PM  
Relevant to this thread, but borderline NSFW:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/no-one-murdered-because-of-this-imag e ,29553/

Every religion has fundies, and all fundies are easy to offend, but only one has fundies who routinely kill because they're offended.
 
2012-09-18 03:31:24 PM  
liam76:

I work with refugees.

You're Mubarak reasoning doesn't work. The standard package which has been adjusted for inflation since Camp david now provides about 1 billion to the military and 250 million for development. It's not relief money, it's state-sponsorship money. And the absolute beauty is that we give them the billion, then they buy equipment from our contractors! It's a fantastic shakedown all around.
 
2012-09-18 03:40:10 PM  

liam76: Stile4aly: liam76: Stile4aly: I would disagree that there is no non-fundamentalist movement within Islam

What branch of Islam doesn't take the Koran as the direct word of God?

What branch of Christianity doesn't take the Bible as the inspired word of God.

Don't be dishonest.


I'm not intending to be dishonest, I don't see a signficant difference between the two. Additionally, Islam has no equivalent to papal infalliability.

Stile4aly: All religions take their holy texts as divine writ, why is Islam special in this case?

Deism?


Deism is a current religious movement?

There is the Catholic stance that the bible is the innerant word of god only on matters of faith (ie evolution, etc are ok).

In the 70's evangelicals got together in Chicago to declare the bible inerrant becasue of the fast growing christian belief that it was not.

Nevermind the whole split you mentioned earlier in this thread when I brought up fundamenatlists that arose from christians not looking at the bible as the direct word of God.


The Protestant split had nothing to do with Biblical innerrancy, it was about the centralized authority and infalliability of the Pope as well as the corruption of the Catholic Church particularly regarding the selling of indulgences.

Stile4aly: Likewise, you'll find cafeteria Muslims in the West (I'm one of them).

What major school of Islamic thought backs that belief?


None to my knowledge. That doesn't mean we don't exist.

Stile4aly: A pedo warlord... Get bent

He didn't bone a 9yr old? He didn't lead a war band?

Not a good student of your faith, are you?


Muhammad, after fleeing persecution in Mecca led a series of campaigns from Medina which included caravan raids against the Quraish tribe. Calling him a warlord suggests that his motive was personal wealth as opposed to a strategic goal of self defense of his followers and ultimately retaking Mecca.

Regarding Aisha, leaving aside the fact that child marriage for political purpose was commonplace at the time and that the marriage could be declared invalid without consummation, there are arguments that she was older than is commonly believed at the time of her marriage and consummation. In the Hadith in question, Aisha states that she was 6 at the age of marriage and 9 at the age of consummation, however in other Hadith, Aisha reports witnessing events that she would not have been alive for if those ages were correct. Furthermore, in another Hadith, she uses a system of numerical substitution where she basically drops the "tens" column of her numbers. If she did the same then this would mean she was 16 when married and 19 when the marriage was consummated.
 
2012-09-18 03:41:03 PM  

liam76: modesto: liam76: modesto: liam76:


How many of those not in hotels serve booze during Ramadan?

Some. Is that the definition of extremism now?

modesto: Right. I'm sure he was internally seething with rage and just making pleasant small talk to placate me while he tried to plot my beheading in a moving vehicle.

Why do you feel the need to make shiat up instead of responding to what I said. He wanted a bigger tip. You are likely going to tip more if he says how much he likes the US. Expecting honesty out of a cab driver on his feelings towards your country is like expecting honesty out of a hooker on how you kiss.

Did all 18 million people who didn't protest in this city all went me to tip them too? Crap.
 
2012-09-18 03:41:19 PM  

Private_Citizen: Every religion has fundies, and all fundies are easy to offend, but only one has fundies who routinely aren't too lazy to go out of their way to kill because they're offended.


FTFY (fine point, but based on my bible-belt-centric observations)
 
2012-09-18 03:45:23 PM  

liam76: Stile4aly: I want to participate in a funny thread about Islam, but can't because there are too many trolls and I feel compelled to defend my religionI get butthurt when people bring up that Mo banged his 9yr old bride and led people in battle.#MUSLIMRAGE

FTFY


Bigotry annoys me, but fark me, right?
 
2012-09-18 03:55:49 PM  

Stile4aly: she uses a system of numerical substitution where she basically drops the "tens" column of her numbers. If she did the same then this would mean she was 16 when married and 19 when the marriage was consummated.


cultofmac.cultofmaccom.netdna-cdn.com
 
2012-09-18 04:07:45 PM  
For the people who are saying that we have freedom of speech and religion in the USA, you have to understand that in some parts of this world, people don't have a concept of those things. Concepts that we believe are natural and fundamental aren't either of those to a lot of people outside of the West. To them, this video being made in America is the same thing as the American government agreeing with it because in their nations it would be censored.

Also, to the people who say that Muslim is a religion of violence: read a book instead of listening to talking points. Sorry to point it out, but the Jews, Christians, and Muslims all worship the same deity. I know nobody in any of those groups wants to hear that they're basically the same...but they are.

Lastly, as a Muslim, I think #muslimrage is hi-larious.
 
2012-09-18 04:07:58 PM  

Stile4aly: liam76: Stile4aly: I want to participate in a funny thread about Islam, but can't because there are too many trolls and I feel compelled to defend my religionI get butthurt when people bring up that Mo banged his 9yr old bride and led people in battle.#MUSLIMRAGE

FTFY

Bigotry annoys me, but fark me, right?


you are part of the biggest bigoted religion on earth, but bigotry annoys you?
 
2012-09-18 04:10:53 PM  

Steve McQueen's Motorcycle: Stile4aly: she uses a system of numerical substitution where she basically drops the "tens" column of her numbers. If she did the same then this would mean she was 16 when married and 19 when the marriage was consummated.

[incredulous Seth and Amy.gif]


Yes, I get it. My explanation is two sentences about a complex topic, so it sounds frivolous. The mathematical trick I mention does exist, though I don't have chapter and verse reference to it offhand and it's the less compelling argument anyway. Nevertheless, there is legitimate theological argument about Aisha's age at marriage and compelling arguments that she was in her mid to late teens when the marriage was consummated.
 
2012-09-18 04:11:06 PM  

Stile4aly: she uses a system of numerical substitution where she basically drops the "tens" column of her numbers. If she did the same then this would mean she was 16 when married and 19 when the marriage was consummated.


Wow! Thanks! I'm gonna remember that next time.

/yeah, she said she was eight, but I naturally assumed she used a system of numerical substitution where she basically drops the "tens" column of her numbers
 
2012-09-18 04:13:16 PM  

EmmaLou: For the people who are saying that we have freedom of speech and religion in the USA, you have to understand that in some parts of this world, people don't have a concept of those things. Concepts that we believe are natural and fundamental aren't either of those to a lot of people outside of the West. To them, this video being made in America is the same thing as the American government agreeing with it because in their nations it would be censored.

Also, to the people who say that Muslim is a religion of violence: read a book instead of listening to talking points. Sorry to point it out, but the Jews, Christians, and Muslims all worship the same deity. I know nobody in any of those groups wants to hear that they're basically the same...but they are.

Lastly, as a Muslim, I think #muslimrage is hi-larious.


How bout we read the quran? Same? just with out all the rape, incest, death, and destruction right?
Just because they have no concept, does not give them a pass. They have a concept that women are property and can be beaten, do we just say "oh well, part of their conceptions"
There is right and wrong in the real world no matter if they choose to see it or not.
 
2012-09-18 04:15:31 PM  

Stile4aly: Steve McQueen's Motorcycle: Stile4aly: she uses a system of numerical substitution where she basically drops the "tens" column of her numbers. If she did the same then this would mean she was 16 when married and 19 when the marriage was consummated.

[incredulous Seth and Amy.gif]

Yes, I get it. My explanation is two sentences about a complex topic, so it sounds frivolous. The mathematical trick I mention does exist, though I don't have chapter and verse reference to it offhand and it's the less compelling argument anyway. Nevertheless, there is legitimate theological argument about Aisha's age at marriage and compelling arguments that she was in her mid to late teens when the marriage was consummated.


No, your explanation is a bad attempt at justifying pedophillia of teh prophet (piss be upon him)
 
2012-09-18 04:19:59 PM  
Guinness factory burns to the ground #StoutRage
 
2012-09-18 04:27:36 PM  

MBooda: Stile4aly: she uses a system of numerical substitution where she basically drops the "tens" column of her numbers. If she did the same then this would mean she was 16 when married and 19 when the marriage was consummated.

Wow! Thanks! I'm gonna remember that next time.

/yeah, she said she was eight, but I naturally assumed she used a system of numerical substitution where she basically drops the "tens" column of her numbers


There is another hadith where Aisha basically says "such and such happens on the 5th day, and such and such happens on the 8th day" where in fact the events happen on the 25th day and 28th day. I'm simply saying that in conjunction with other evidence, there is an argument to be made that she was not 6 at the age of marriage.

Joe Blowme:
No, your explanation is a bad attempt at justifying pedophillia of teh prophet (piss be upon him)


I do not justify pedophilia. I was simply stating that the question of Aisha's age at marriage is not settled and I happen to find the evidence that she was older compelling.
 
2012-09-18 04:30:31 PM  

Stile4aly: The mathematical trick I mention does exist, though I don't have chapter and verse reference to it offhand and it's the less compelling argument anyway.


You forgot "there is insufficient room in the margins".
www.fermatcapital.com
 
2012-09-18 04:33:10 PM  

halfof33: NiceBeaver: So, let me get this right...an American uses his Constitutionally protected freedom of speech to make a youtube video that points out problems with how a great deal of the Middle East practices Islam, and despite numerous reports from on-ground sources (and the Libyan President) plainly describing how riots - that have cost Americans their lives - are ultimately unrelated to the video, but instead are a coordinated attack on American embassies, the White House asks Youtube to take down the video, the filmmaker gets taken in for questioning (not for a lame parole violation issue), and liberals like Hillary Clinton double-down on the notion that the video is to blame?
.

Wow, I don't think anything you just wrote is true. I don't like Barry Obama either, but get your shiat straight ya dope.


Nothing I wrote is true? Get your facts straight, dumbass.
1. He has freedom of speech
2. A great deal of the Middle East practices Islamic religion
3. Americans have lost their lives as a result of the riots
4. The riots are coordinated, and not a result of a farking video. Unorganized events that spontaneously pop-up don't generally involve RPGs
5. Dude did get taken in for questioning
6. Hillary did, in fact, continue to link the video the riots

Please go suck off someone at HuffPo.
 
2012-09-18 04:34:54 PM  

Harvey Manfrenjensenjen: NiceBeaver: So, let me get this right...an American uses his Constitutionally protected freedom of speech to make a youtube video that points out problems with how a great deal of the Middle East practices Islam, and despite numerous reports from on-ground sources (and the Libyan President) plainly describing how riots - that have cost Americans their lives - are ultimately unrelated to the video, but instead are a coordinated attack on American embassies, the White House asks Youtube to take down the video, the filmmaker gets taken in for questioning (not for a lame parole violation issue), and liberals like Hillary Clinton double-down on the notion that the video is to blame?

Remember all those riots and deaths when the piss-Christ thing was being trumpeted by the same crowd denouncing this film? Yeah, me neither.

Go back and check out the threads on the topic over the past week or so. GAT_00 and cameroncrazy1984 have finally jumped the shark with their derp-tastic takes on the events. The multitude of smack downs, even from people with whom they normally agree, have not convinced them to rethink their position but have only served to reinforce their notion that they're "speaking truth to power" or whatever the hell they've convinced themselves they're doing.


No need. GAT_00 is a known dipshiat, and cameroncrazy is farkied as tinfoil hat dipshiat, lives with mommy.
 
2012-09-18 04:37:12 PM  

notatrollorami: NiceBeaver: So, let me get this right...an American uses his Constitutionally protected freedom of speech to make a youtube video that points out problems with how a great deal of the Middle East practices Islam, and despite numerous reports from on-ground sources (and the Libyan President) plainly describing how riots - that have cost Americans their lives - are ultimately unrelated to the video, but instead are a coordinated attack on American embassies, the White House asks Youtube to take down the video, the filmmaker gets taken in for questioning (not for a lame parole violation issue), and liberals like Hillary Clinton double-down on the notion that the video is to blame?

Remember all those riots and deaths when the piss-Christ thing was being trumpeted by the same crowd denouncing this film? Yeah, me neither.

I think you started out with a direction in mind but ended up wildly swerving all over the damned road and careening into the ditch. In the aftermath no one can discern your original intent.


I'm sorry you don't follow coherent thought without a summary sentence that ties everything into a little bow. I bet you had to have someone explain Memento to you about 45 times, with stick figures, pantomime, powerpoint slideshows, and a timeline drawn on the sidewalk with multiple colors of chalk before you finally got it.
 
2012-09-18 04:37:13 PM  

Stile4aly: The mathematical trick I mention does exist, though I don't have chapter and verse reference to it offhand


What would be the purpose of arbitrarily throwing away data?
 
2012-09-18 04:38:11 PM  

Joe Blowme: (piss be upon him)


Ugh. No need to be intentionally offensive. Don't stoop to the level of the bigots in fark christian bashing threads.
 
2012-09-18 04:38:31 PM  

lostcat: atomicmask: pute kisses like a man: people seem to use this term freedom of speech. wtf does it have to do with anything?

why on earth would anyone else give a flying fark about our constitutional protections? it's just the way this country does it, it's not some mandate from the law of the universe. no one else has to give a flying fark about freedom of speech, plus, it only protects you from government censorship... it doesn't protect you from being an ass and pissing people off

You have no concept about the law, or its intended purpose or meaning. It does not protect us from pissing people off, it protects us from violence because we pissed someone off. It is that whole "Civilized society" thing we got going for us. The law exists to protect the few from the many and the weak from the strong. Why on earth should we care if we offend people half way around the world?

The First Amendment protects individuals from laws passed that would restrict what we are allowed to say. It was intended more to let citizens speak out against the government, than to allow people to say whatever they want about any topic.

The freedom of speech also does not include:

- Speech that contains "fighting words" (insulting or abusive language that is likely to cause "an immediate violent response");
- Obscenities;
- Language or communication directed to inciting, producing or urging the commission of a crime;
- Defamation - words or communication that are false and untrue and are intended to injure the character and reputation of another person;
- Abusive, obscene or harassing telephone calls;
- Loud speech and loud noise meant by volume to disturb others or to create a clear and present danger of violence.


I've bolded the relevant point above, which is that saying something that results in the commission of a crime is not protected speech.

Producing a video with the sole intent to disturb shiat, possibly getting American citizens killed, is just willfully negligent, if not cri ...


There are "smart" and "funny" buttons, but I can't find the "doesn't have a farking clue how the First Amendment works" button so I can properly credit your post.
 
2012-09-18 04:41:49 PM  

trippdogg: NiceBeaver: So, let me get this right...an American uses his Constitutionally protected freedom of speech to make a youtube video that points out problems with how a great deal of the Middle East practices Islam, and despite numerous reports from on-ground sources (and the Libyan President) plainly describing how riots - that have cost Americans their lives - are ultimately unrelated to the video, but instead are a coordinated attack on American embassies, the White House asks Youtube to take down the video, the filmmaker gets taken in for questioning (not for a lame parole violation issue), and liberals like Hillary Clinton double-down on the notion that the video is to blame?

Remember all those riots and deaths when the piss-Christ thing was being trumpeted by the same crowd denouncing this film? Yeah, me neither.

You must be the shiat at a party.


Actually, I am. Thanks for noticing.
 
2012-09-18 04:42:19 PM  

trappedspirit: Stile4aly: The mathematical trick I mention does exist, though I don't have chapter and verse reference to it offhand

What would be the purpose of arbitrarily throwing away data?


My understanding is that it was a colloquialism of 7th century Arabic, not a subject I'm well versed in.
 
2012-09-18 04:44:59 PM  

Stile4aly: My understanding is that it was a colloquialism of 7th century Arabic, not a subject I'm well versed in.


Mighty proud that you're not letting your ignorance stop you.
 
2012-09-18 04:48:01 PM  

MBooda: Stile4aly: My understanding is that it was a colloquialism of 7th century Arabic, not a subject I'm well versed in.

Mighty proud that you're not letting your ignorance stop you.


Last time I checked, it is possible to refer to experts without being one yourself.
 
2012-09-18 04:54:12 PM  

Stile4aly: Muhammad, after fleeing persecution in Mecca led a series of campaigns from Medina which included caravan raids against the Quraish tribe.


Cool, I am going to Medina next week to watch the Ryder Cup.
 
2012-09-18 04:55:56 PM  

PJ-: AgentBang: I vote that we start a #ChristianRage tag on Twitter, see how well that floats in 'Merika.

Found out my pool guy Jesus can't walk on water. What do you mean they don't pronounce it that way where they are from? #ChristianRage


Dude you are going to get me fired I am laughing so hard.
 
2012-09-18 04:57:00 PM  

ThrowYourHatredDown: Stile4aly: Muhammad, after fleeing persecution in Mecca led a series of campaigns from Medina which included caravan raids against the Quraish tribe.

Cool, I am going to Medina next week to watch the Ryder Cup.


I wanted to make a pilgrimage to Medina, but ended up at the Ryder Cup. #MUSLIMRAGE
 
2012-09-18 04:58:42 PM  

trappedspirit: Stile4aly: The mathematical trick I mention does exist, though I don't have chapter and verse reference to it offhand

What would be the purpose of arbitrarily throwing away data?


Ask the Council of Nicea.
 
2012-09-18 05:11:24 PM  
Stile4aly:

FWIW, big respect points for not becoming childish and when faced with gang antagonism. And for analyzing the recent events in a reasonable way, without trying to shift blame or attention away from the topic.

You would probably be one of the few people on fark I could disagree with and have a fruitful conversation with at the same time.
 
2012-09-18 05:11:57 PM  

Stile4aly: liam76: Stile4aly: liam76: Stile4aly: I would disagree that there is no non-fundamentalist movement within Islam

What branch of Islam doesn't take the Koran as the direct word of God?

What branch of Christianity doesn't take the Bible as the inspired word of God.

Don't be dishonest.

I'm not intending to be dishonest, I don't see a signficant difference between the two. Additionally, Islam has no equivalent to papal infalliability.

Stile4aly: All religions take their holy texts as divine writ, why is Islam special in this case?

Deism?

Deism is a current religious movement?

There is the Catholic stance that the bible is the innerant word of god only on matters of faith (ie evolution, etc are ok).

In the 70's evangelicals got together in Chicago to declare the bible inerrant becasue of the fast growing christian belief that it was not.

Nevermind the whole split you mentioned earlier in this thread when I brought up fundamenatlists that arose from christians not looking at the bible as the direct word of God.

The Protestant split had nothing to do with Biblical innerrancy, it was about the centralized authority and infalliability of the Pope as well as the corruption of the Catholic Church particularly regarding the selling of indulgences.

Stile4aly: Likewise, you'll find cafeteria Muslims in the West (I'm one of them).

What major school of Islamic thought backs that belief?

None to my knowledge. That doesn't mean we don't exist.

Stile4aly: A pedo warlord... Get bent

He didn't bone a 9yr old? He didn't lead a war band?

Not a good student of your faith, are you?

Muhammad, after fleeing persecution in Mecca led a series of campaigns from Medina which included caravan raids against the Quraish tribe. Calling him a warlord suggests that his motive was personal wealth as opposed to a strategic goal of self defense of his followers and ultimately retaking Mecca.

Regarding Aisha, leaving aside the fact that child marriage for political purpose was commonp ...


You are a liar, but you are muslim, so its to be expected. Lets go over your lies, shall we?

1. Muhammed after fleeing persecution in mecca- He was banished from mecca for trying to forceably convert the polytheists. The entire city of mecca got together to speak to mohammed uncle about him, and said if Mohammed wanted to preach in Mecca, it was fine, but he is not to insult or try to force polytheists to his religion Mohammed refused and told them their gods were false (notice a trend already?) he was banished from mecca and started to raid peaceful traders and form a bandit army, the Quarish (a peaceful merchant class of people) was one of said tribes he persecuted and forced into slavery or islam. He was a farking warlord, stop trying to redefine terms to suit your goals. He was a bandit warlord at that, a thief and a rapist.

2. Regarding Aisha, leaving aside the fact that child marriage for political purpose was commonplace at the time and that the marriage could be declared invalid without consummation, there are arguments that she was older than is commonly believed at the time of her marriage and consummation. In the Hadith in question, Aisha states that she was 6 at the age of marriage and 9 at the age of consummation, however in other Hadith, Aisha reports witnessing events that she would not have been alive for if those ages were correct. Furthermore, in another Hadith, she uses a system of numerical substitution where she basically drops the "tens" column of her numbers. If she did the same then this would mean she was 16 when married and 19 when the marriage was consummated.

Funny that, how they mention that Aisha was playing with dolls at the age of consummating the marriage. as quoted from the Quran...



Narrated Aisha: The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age. Volume 5, Book 58, Number 234

Narrated 'Aisha: I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13) Volume 8, Book 73, Number 151


So, in conclusion, again, you are lair and your porphet was a pedophile bandit warlord. Deal with it.
 
2012-09-18 05:21:21 PM  

Stile4aly: MBooda: Stile4aly: My understanding is that it was a colloquialism of 7th century Arabic, not a subject I'm well versed in.

Mighty proud that you're not letting your ignorance stop you.

Last time I checked, it is possible to refer to experts without being one yourself.


To which experts do you refer?
 
2012-09-18 05:31:13 PM  

modesto: Say what you want about Camp David and the Arab Spring etc. etc. and whether the whole thing is/was worthwhile, but the 300,000 strong army of riot police that is still in place here to keep the people compliant?


The alternative was that the present western border of Israel would be Libya.

Egypt lost the Sinai three times in 16 years, and the last time the cease-fire was called with the Israeli army on the roads to Damascus and Cairo.

The alternative wasn't no riot police; it was riot police stamped with the Star of David instead.
 
2012-09-18 05:32:44 PM  

atomicmask: but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.


Puberty didn't start until age 25 back then. Don't you know girls have been hitting puberty earlier and earlier? If you extrapolate back...yeah, 25 is about right, dontcha think?

;o)
 
2012-09-18 05:43:16 PM  

Stile4aly: Deism is a current religious movement?


I thought it was accepted that they were the "root" of unitarian churches.

Stile4aly: The Protestant split had nothing to do with Biblical innerrancy, it was about the centralized authority and infalliability of the Pope as well as the corruption of the Catholic Church particularly regarding the selling of indulgences.


The "split", no the "splintering" it caused, yes. (your exact words, a Protestant movement resulting in a splintering). You had a number of protestant churches, many different movements, lots of which stopped looking at the bible as perfect. The whole "fundamentalist" movement in christianity was to fight those movements.

Stile4aly: None to my knowledge. That doesn't mean we don't exist.


Yes but it does speak about how many of you there are.

Stile4aly: Muhammad, after fleeing persecution (for trying to forcibly convert people) in Mecca led a series of campaigns from Medina which included caravan raids against the peaceful Quraish tribe. Calling him a warlord suggests that his motive was personal wealth as opposed to a strategic goal of self defense of his followers and ultimately retaking Mecca.


No calling him a warlord suggests he led fights as opposed to turning the other cheek. It suggest he was trying to "take" land (retaking doesn't make it any better).

Stile4aly: Regarding Aisha, leaving aside the fact that child marriage for political purpose was commonplace at the time and that the marriage could be declared invalid without consummation, there are arguments that she was older than is commonly believed at the time of her marriage and consummation. In the Hadith in question, Aisha states that she was 6 at the age of marriage and 9 at the age of consummation, however in other Hadith, Aisha reports witnessing events that she would not have been alive for if those ages were correct. Furthermore, in another Hadith, she uses a system of numerical substitution where she basically drops the "tens" column of her numbers. If she did the same then this would mean she was 16 when married and 19 when the marriage was consummated


Excusing pedophilia because it was acceptable at the time may work for you, but it doesn't change the facts. And given that many muslims look at Mo's life (and all aspects of it) as something to model your self after it provides me no comfort for his followers trying to emulate him on other matters.

If she was just dropping numbers why was the historical marriage age in muslim countries 6 or 9? Apparently experts used to believe this. It seems they now want to pick another story because modern age is catching up with him.


Clean up or try and defend his actions all you want, I have the same issues when comparing people following Christ vs him.
 
2012-09-18 05:44:08 PM  

This text is now purple: modesto: Say what you want about Camp David and the Arab Spring etc. etc. and whether the whole thing is/was worthwhile, but the 300,000 strong army of riot police that is still in place here to keep the people compliant?

The alternative was that the present western border of Israel would be Libya.

Egypt lost the Sinai three times in 16 years, and the last time the cease-fire was called with the Israeli army on the roads to Damascus and Cairo.

The alternative wasn't no riot police; it was riot police stamped with the Star of David instead.


Point taken. I'm not as fluent in the history as I'd like to be. Still though....my original point was that people have legitimate complaints against our role here. The one incident of anti-americanism I have encountered was when someone wanted to show me a canister of the Made in USA tear gas being used to disperse peaceful protestors. I'm not sure how us giving them the money to buy that from us relates to israeli occupation at this point.
 
2012-09-18 05:46:15 PM  

modesto: liam76: Why do you feel the need to make shiat up instead of responding to what I said. He wanted a bigger tip. You are likely going to tip more if he says how much he likes the US. Expecting honesty out of a cab driver on his feelings towards your country is like expecting honesty out of a hooker on how you kiss.

Did all 18 million people who didn't protest in this city all went me to tip them too? Crap


Hmm. How many times am I going to have to repeat that bolded portion to you?

Cabbies make money off you, it stands to reason that they want to make you happy. Taking their stance as a barometer for the feelings of the city is stupid.

modesto: Some. Is that the definition of extremism now?


No. I never said that was what the definition of extremism was.

But when most of the people support death penalty for the things I laid out, stoning for adultery, etc, that is.

Not surprised you ignored those responses.


Stile4aly: liam76: Stile4aly: I want to participate in a funny thread about Islam, but can't because there are too many trolls and I feel compelled to defend my religionI get butthurt when people bring up that Mo banged his 9yr old bride and led people in battle.#MUSLIMRAGE

FTFY

Bigotry annoys me, but fark me, right?


Where is the bigotry?

Stile4aly: I'm not intending to be dishonest, I don't see a signficant difference between the two. Additionally, Islam has no equivalent to papal infalliability.


Direct word can't be wrong. Inspired means it was actually written by man so parts can be wrong, but the "entire message" is right.
 
2012-09-18 05:48:55 PM  

modesto: I work with refugees.


Doing what exactly, refugees from where?


Still being very vague for someone who questioned the knowledge of people based on what they did there.

I had friends (educated engineers) from Cairo and Alexandria, but I also worked day in day out with with people from small towns. I worked with Nubians.


modesto: You're Mubarak reasoning doesn't work. The standard package which has been adjusted for inflation since Camp david now provides about 1 billion to the military and 250 million for development. It's not relief money, it's state-sponsorship money. And the absolute beauty is that we give them the billion, then they buy equipment from our contractors! It's a fantastic shakedown all around


He didn't control virtually every aspect of the govt and many aspects of the economy?

The "standard package" was not the entiriety of our aid, and even if we dropped military aid the people got a lot from us (even if much of it was through us).

Yes he likely would have fallen in a couple years, but that would only if no other state stepped up, and who knows who would have won. Look how well his party did in the last election.
 
2012-09-18 05:50:47 PM  

modesto: Still though....my original point was that people have legitimate complaints against our role here.


But that wasn't' what you argued. You argued that a dictator was there solely because of the US (and then went on to biatch about people seeing in black and white, otherwise I probably would have let it slide).
 
2012-09-18 05:52:20 PM  

atomicmask: You are a liar, but you are muslim, so its to be expected.


If you reject what I say out of hand because of my faith then what's the point in arguing?
 
2012-09-18 05:58:00 PM  

liam76: modesto: liam76:

Hmm. How many times am I going to have to repeat that bolded portion to you?

Several more, please.

Cabbies make money off you, it stands to reason that they want to make you happy. Taking their stance as a barometer for the feelings of the city is stupid.

The cabbie thing was a silly anecdote. Sheesh. Lighten up, man. Not surprised you won't reply to my question of why the 18 million non-protesting muslims in this city were somehow able to restrain their murderous rage and convincingly appear to not give a fark.

Night night sweetheart.
 
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