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(Business Insider)   Russian sub spotted in gulf. Of Mexico. Cold war or Coke war?   (businessinsider.com) divider line 137
    More: Interesting, Gulf of Mexico, cold-war, Russians, cat-and-mouse game, incursions  
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12684 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Sep 2012 at 11:54 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-18 01:28:07 PM  
Too tired to post intelligently, so I'll let another submariner do it for me:

"Obviously, it's possible that a Russian SSN could travel to the Gulf of Mexico and cruise around for a month in international waters during peacetime, even though that has no real military value, as we have no real naval bases with things like major combatants in the Gulf, and what do you expect the U.S. to do to stop them from transiting international waters, fire at them and start a war? "
 
2012-09-18 01:40:22 PM  

bubo_sibiricus: "Sophisticated" and "underwear bomb" don't even belong in the same farking sentence. Get back to me when Ahmed can launch underwear bombs over the north pole.


That wouldn't really be all that hard to do.

Hobbyists have flown autonomous model airplanes across the Atlantic Ocean, a distance of almost 1,900 miles. That was almost 10 years ago now.

Building a large scale model airplane with some kind of token warhead and enough range to make it to the east coast of the US from north-western Africa certainly seems possible. Because it would have a small radar signature, and fly at relatively low altitudes and speeds, it would almost certainly be considered to be a large sea bird if caught on radar. They'd be quiet enough and high enough that spotting them from the ground would be problematic.

You could standardize a design and probably get the per-unit cost down below $1,500 a unit, which is cheap. You can buy an "Almost Ready to Fly" model airplane with a 12 foot wingspan and flying weight of 31 lbs for $1100 from Hobby Lobby. As an example, you could use a big, efficient cruise prop spun by the minimum sized motor and a large gas tank, you'd likely have a very long range airplane with some cargo capacity, especially if you left off the landing gear and faired over the "hood/windshield" transition to be more aerodynamic.

Even if you couldn't get the range much over 1,000 miles, that still opens up a lot of possibilities: You can launch them from fishing vessels in the mid-Atlantic or islands in the Caribbean, or even from within US territory and "dogleg" them to conceal where they originated from. 

You would almost certainly lose some of them due to stuff like weather, engine failure, etc., but the ability to put some sort of panic-inducing payload into a populated area without it being able to be stopped by conventional means that even if you lose half, or even most, you'd still be causing a problem.
 
2012-09-18 01:40:28 PM  
They are just out there stealing our grouper, tuna and yellow tail snapper.
 
2012-09-18 01:40:52 PM  

KyngNothing: So unnamed Navy sources tell some random blogger that we just detected a Russian sub that we didn't detect, combined with a plug to not take away the Navy anti-submarine money, which this concerned blogger manages to spin into an attack on Obama?


Hey, this is coming from the Washington Free Bacon.

Sounds legit.
 
2012-09-18 01:43:34 PM  

dittybopper: US SIGINT SOSUS knew exactly where all of the single pings came from


That's the ticket, thanks! The early earthquake/tsunami/enemy sub warning systems, forgot about those! God I love science.
 
2012-09-18 01:49:59 PM  

KyngNothing: So unnamed Navy sources tell some random blogger that we just detected a Russian sub that we didn't detect, combined with a plug to not take away the Navy anti-submarine money, which this concerned blogger manages to spin into an attack on Obama?

What was the point again?


I think the point was that if we didn't have a blah President this kind of non-event wouldn't happen.
 
2012-09-18 01:50:51 PM  

dittybopper: bubo_sibiricus: "Sophisticated" and "underwear bomb" don't even belong in the same farking sentence. Get back to me when Ahmed can launch underwear bombs over the north pole.

That wouldn't really be all that hard to do.

Hobbyists have flown autonomous model airplanes across the Atlantic Ocean, a distance of almost 1,900 miles. That was almost 10 years ago now.

Building a large scale model airplane with some kind of token warhead and enough range to make it to the east coast of the US from north-western Africa certainly seems possible. Because it would have a small radar signature, and fly at relatively low altitudes and speeds, it would almost certainly be considered to be a large sea bird if caught on radar. They'd be quiet enough and high enough that spotting them from the ground would be problematic.

You could standardize a design and probably get the per-unit cost down below $1,500 a unit, which is cheap. You can buy an "Almost Ready to Fly" model airplane with a 12 foot wingspan and flying weight of 31 lbs for $1100 from Hobby Lobby. As an example, you could use a big, efficient cruise prop spun by the minimum sized motor and a large gas tank, you'd likely have a very long range airplane with some cargo capacity, especially if you left off the landing gear and faired over the "hood/windshield" transition to be more aerodynamic.

Even if you couldn't get the range much over 1,000 miles, that still opens up a lot of possibilities: You can launch them from fishing vessels in the mid-Atlantic or islands in the Caribbean, or even from within US territory and "dogleg" them to conceal where they originated from. 

You would almost certainly lose some of them due to stuff like weather, engine failure, etc., but the ability to put some sort of panic-inducing payload into a populated area without it being able to be stopped by conventional means that even if you lose half, or even most, you'd still be causing a problem.


And suddenly dittybopper hears a knocking on the door...
 
2012-09-18 01:52:57 PM  
As a child of the 80's who had a REAL fear of nuclear holocaust, as well as sub fan, I find this stuff endlessly facinating. I imagine with the changes in world politics/economies, the chances of the Russians glass parking lot-ing us is a lot less, but these missles are still out there and aimed at us...
 
2012-09-18 01:53:30 PM  

Englebert Slaptyback: Russian sub spotted in gulf. Of Mexico.


OMG THEY'RE GONNA INVADE GEORGIA AGAIN!!


They better make sure they have their papers in order. Link
 
2012-09-18 01:56:54 PM  

Uisce Beatha: Too tired to post intelligently, so I'll let another submariner do it for me:

"Obviously, it's possible that a Russian SSN could travel to the Gulf of Mexico and cruise around for a month in international waters during peacetime, even though that has no real military value, as we have no real naval bases with things like major combatants in the Gulf, and what do you expect the U.S. to do to stop them from transiting international waters, fire at them and start a war? "


The Gulf does indeed have real military value.

Tell me, what happens to petroleum prices in the US when wells and refineries in the Gulf have to shut down due to hurricanes? What would happen if they were shut down due to attacks by anti-shipping missiles instead, with the resulting damage taking months to fix (if you could convince people to work on the isolated oil platforms)?

But yeah, they're in international waters. We can follow them, though.
 
2012-09-18 01:58:35 PM  

KyngNothing: And suddenly dittybopper hears a knocking on the door...


Meh. All hypothetical, and I'm not the first person to come up with the idea.
 
2012-09-18 01:59:53 PM  

dittybopper: yesanded: These same sources have reported troop movements of Redcoats in the vicinity of Lexington and Concord.

This is what happens when OBAMA refuses to fund the Continental Army.

Well, they're only obligated to follow 60% of his orders anyway.


I'm disappointed that no one caught that.
 
2012-09-18 02:01:55 PM  

amd1433: Well, well! Looks like Romney was right! Russia IS the biggest threat facing the US, and 0bama just let them piss in our faces! Checkmate, libtards!


Lemme guess... you read it on the Internet so it must be true.

You should be careful throwing around the tard suffix.
 
2012-09-18 02:10:35 PM  

GranoblasticMan: fappomatic: Jesus Christ. Even the Russkies know about Panama City.

So wait, it was here to do us a favor?


Well Katrina let us down. Desperate times & measures and all.
 
2012-09-18 02:13:33 PM  

angry_scientist: dittybopper: US SIGINT SOSUS knew exactly where all of the single pings came from

That's the ticket, thanks! The early earthquake/tsunami/enemy sub warning systems, forgot about those! God I love science.


Tom Clancy novels
ftfy
 
2012-09-18 02:14:52 PM  

dittybopper


dittybopper: yesanded: These same sources have reported troop movements of Redcoats in the vicinity of Lexington and Concord.

This is what happens when OBAMA refuses to fund the Continental Army.

Well, they're only obligated to follow 60% of his orders anyway.

I'm disappointed that no one caught that.


Caught it, but your math is wrong which took away from the joke.


Hint: Mr. Obama is 50% white.
 
2012-09-18 02:24:12 PM  
The only reason this atrocity was able to happen is because of the defense cuts that haven't taken effect yet that are the direct result of congress's inability to come up with a budget after agreeing to make these cuts if they couldn't come up with a budget. Damn you, Fartbama!!!!!
 
2012-09-18 02:24:40 PM  
The real question is:

Do we stop them if they try to invade Florida?

/this sub was probably sold off as surplus and is now running drugs from Columbia to Florida.
 
2012-09-18 02:24:44 PM  
We could have lost track of a sub since I'm betting we're not watching the new ice-free areas as closely as we were watching the GIUK gap...
 
2012-09-18 02:42:25 PM  

Englebert Slaptyback: dittybopper

dittybopper: yesanded: These same sources have reported troop movements of Redcoats in the vicinity of Lexington and Concord.

This is what happens when OBAMA refuses to fund the Continental Army.

Well, they're only obligated to follow 60% of his orders anyway.

I'm disappointed that no one caught that.


Caught it, but your math is wrong which took away from the joke.


Hint: Mr. Obama is 50% white.


It was a joke about the 3/5ths rule, and the fact that he is half-Caucasian wouldn't have mattered: Many a half-white slave existed back then, largely born to black mothers raped by white men.
 
2012-09-18 03:02:38 PM  

Onkel Buck: Obama will have to remind Putin he is going to more flexible AFTER the election, not BEFORE.


cdn3.hark.com

'You arrogant ass, you've killed Us!'
 
2012-09-18 03:22:05 PM  
The CIA uses them to smuggle cocaine. That's why it "disappeared." Few, if any Russians were involved in this article.
 
2012-09-18 03:43:22 PM  

dittybopper


It was a joke about the 3/5ths rule


*sigh* I know that; it was very obvious.

My somewhat facetious point was that the 60% figure would be inaccurate under the rule because of Mr. Obama's lineage. Yes, I saw the other stuff you wrote.
 
2012-09-18 03:55:11 PM  

Englebert Slaptyback: dittybopper

It was a joke about the 3/5ths rule


*sigh* I know that; it was very obvious.

My somewhat facetious point was that the 60% figure would be inaccurate under the rule because of Mr. Obama's lineage. Yes, I saw the other stuff you wrote.


Yeah, but it wouldn't be inaccurate, because a half-black person back then was, for all legal purposes, just black, especially in the South. A half-black slave only counted as 3/5ths of a person for apportionment reasons, same as a every other slave.
 
2012-09-18 04:39:30 PM  
Don't you people have like a ka-jillion dollars worth of surveillance technology?

Worlds most technologically advanced army, why you no detect sub in your territorial waters?
 
2012-09-18 04:47:10 PM  

Franko: Don't you people have like a ka-jillion dollars worth of surveillance technology?

Worlds most technologically advanced army, why you no detect sub in your territorial waters?


As it turns out, the army's not very good at detecting submarines underwater. The tanks keep getting full of water and sinking.
 
2012-09-18 04:54:50 PM  

gopher321: I ain't never seen no phantom Russian submarine


Ah shiat! Russkies have reverse engineered our silent velcro!
 
2012-09-18 04:55:33 PM  

snocone: wmoonfox: TFA: especially troubling given the drastic defense cuts sought by President Obama

Republicans are so fscking stupid.

The Russians are effectively a non-threat. Everybody other than you knows this -- including the Russians. Their ability to project any meaningful display of military prowess is severely geographically limited, and any resulting war with the US would be very short, regardless of any reasonable cuts in spending on homeland defense.

What they can do is to keep faking us out the way they did pretty much throughout the Cold War, causing us to steadily increase military spending as we spread our forces thinner and thinner, until a complete economic collapse is inevitable. They know how to do this, because that's what happened to them. We're heading down the same fscking path, and it's all thanks to you.

Which is why we are in an economic war, not a shooting war.


If you read between the lines way back when, Russia's (and France's) violation of the Oil for Food treaty with Iraq was a big reason we were in that shooting war. Can't have economic imbalance, you know.
 
2012-09-18 05:23:50 PM  

BunkyBrewman: I was waiting for it after reading nearly through the entire article.

Yes. Left satisfied that the author ultimately blamed it on Obama.


Blamed on Obama and of course it would be Russia because Willard thinks they are our biggest foes.
 
2012-09-18 05:58:03 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: Was it playing Pavarotti?


"Paganini. It was Paganini."
"Look, this is my story, okay--"
"Then tell it right, COB. Pavarotti is a tenor, Paganini was a composer."
 
2012-09-18 07:04:18 PM  

cedarpark: The real question is: Do we stop them if they try to invade Florida?


Alas, Babylon?!

/Weird that I took a break to read a bit of that book, then come online to find this story
//As long as Russia hasn't sent up any new Sputniks any time in the recent past, I think we're safe
 
2012-09-18 07:04:39 PM  
Are you sure it isn't a Democrat fund raising photo op?
 
2012-09-18 09:41:49 PM  
Perhaps they were clearing their baffles while performing a Crazy Ivan and inadvertently executed an emergency blow?
 
2012-09-18 10:49:31 PM  
Russians don't take a dump, son, without a plan. And senior captains don't do something this dangerous without thinking it through.

...the only sound they will hear is our laughter, while we sail to Havana, where the sun is warm, and so is the...comradeship.
 
2012-09-18 11:54:19 PM  

Rangeley Tourist Hunter: Russians don't take a dump, son, without a plan. And senior captains don't do something this dangerous without thinking it through.

...the only sound they will hear is our laughter, while we sail to Havana, where the sun is warm, and so is the...comradeship.


I read the article a couple of times before cluing in this was the Gulf of Mexico and not the Gulf of California, which had me thinking, wow, that's really ballsy.

But I dunno, would a Soviet Submarine ever have traveled into the Gulf of California? I wouldn't think so, why waste nukes on farking Arizona. When you get California and the Gulf States from the Pacific Ocean and the Gulf of Mexico.
 
2012-09-19 02:01:29 AM  
Whoop-de-farking-do.
 
2012-09-19 09:29:07 AM  

RadicalArcher: cedarpark: The real question is: Do we stop them if they try to invade Florida?

Alas, Babylon?!

/Weird that I took a break to read a bit of that book, then come online to find this story
//As long as Russia hasn't sent up any new Sputniks any time in the recent past, I think we're safe


The one lesson I remember from that book, which I read back in the late 1970's, is: Don't store radioactive jewelry under your bed.
 
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