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(Yahoo)   "Organic food is worth the price." said by A) the Organic Trade Association B) Stanford scientists C) Walter Robb, CEO of Whole Foods   (finance.yahoo.com) divider line 89
    More: Unlikely, whole foods, organic food  
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3391 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Sep 2012 at 1:37 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-17 08:37:32 PM  
Well, count me as one of those people who will pay a little more for less pesticides in my food. Not for things like bananas or oranges or watermelons, but apples and most vegetables? Yeah I'll blow some cash on that.

So if I'm buying it, obviously I think it is worth it at the price it is being sold at. And he appears to be making money at it, so he's right. And what CEO doesn't pimp his company?
 
2012-09-17 08:39:19 PM  
Hole-fud is strong but the Stanford Study's conclusion that organic food has no claim to nutritional superiority will mark the beginning of a long slide for this company.

For a laugh, I went to Yahoo Finance and compared Whole Foods performance to Apple over the last 20 years. Apple is only slightly ahead.

// Does that tell you that something is ridiculous here?
 
2012-09-17 08:45:23 PM  

notmtwain: Hole-fud is strong but the Stanford Study's conclusion that organic food has no claim to nutritional superiority will mark the beginning of a long slide for this company.


I never thought organic broccoli was more nutritional than regular broccoli. There is more nutritional value in some of the beef they sell. However, it doesn't matter. I don't approve of pesticides and fertilizers in the overall food cycle, being washed into rivers, having an impact on the ecosystem. Some pesticides, despite FDA guidelines, can stay in your system for quite a while - I tend to trust the FDA but not all that much. And then you already have herbicide-resistant strains of weeds. And then there's also an emphasis on local growing, which reduces carbon emissions.

So yeah, people, don't buy organics for the nutrition. Buy it for other reasons.
 
2012-09-17 09:30:20 PM  
"I've been an organic gardener all my life...and I can see..the vitality of the food from my own experience of raising vegetables."

Screw objective facts, this idiot's had an experience!
 
2012-09-17 10:11:33 PM  
Nutritional differences, less chemicals involved and fair trade aside, Whole Foods sells a philosophy.

Part of that positioning is attractive to people who would like to think their choices are better for themselves, others, and the Earth itself. So, given you are not only buying into the healthier food / agriculture argument, but an ethos too, it is worth the price for those who want to feel they are making a difference.

/Marketing is fun
 
2012-09-17 10:12:50 PM  
Sorry, but no, it's not in most cases.

In quite a few cases, commercially grown food is more nutricious because of the various fertilizers added.

Besides, you can't feed a population of 7 billion on organics alone, which is why we switched to pesticides and additives decades ago. The 'natural' loss was too great. Plus, in current times, huge amounts of great farmland has been plowed under for development, leaving less prime food growing land.
 
2012-09-17 10:22:06 PM  

jimmyego: Nutritional differences, less chemicals involved and fair trade aside, Whole Foods sells a philosophy.

Part of that positioning is attractive to people who would like to think their choices are better for themselves, others, and the Earth itself. So, given you are not only buying into the healthier food / agriculture argument, but an ethos too, it is worth the price for those who want to feel they are making a difference.

/Marketing is fun


Since most(see all) claims regarding organic food are generally not supported by evidence, one could argue this is an FTC issue. The Enzyte crew went to prison for similar issues.
 
2012-09-17 10:57:50 PM  

bdub77: I never thought organic broccoli was more nutritional than regular broccoli. There is more nutritional value in some of the beef they sell. However, it doesn't matter. I don't approve of pesticides and fertilizers in the overall food cycle, being washed into rivers, having an impact on the ecosystem. Some pesticides, despite FDA guidelines, can stay in your system for quite a while - I tend to trust the FDA but not all that much. And then you already have herbicide-resistant strains of weeds. And then there's also an emphasis on local growing, which reduces carbon emissions. So yeah, people, don't buy organics for the nutrition. Buy it for other reasons.


This. It's all about environmental sustainability.
 
2012-09-17 11:04:42 PM  

AntonSzandorLaVey: bdub77: I never thought organic broccoli was more nutritional than regular broccoli. There is more nutritional value in some of the beef they sell. However, it doesn't matter. I don't approve of pesticides and fertilizers in the overall food cycle, being washed into rivers, having an impact on the ecosystem. Some pesticides, despite FDA guidelines, can stay in your system for quite a while - I tend to trust the FDA but not all that much. And then you already have herbicide-resistant strains of weeds. And then there's also an emphasis on local growing, which reduces carbon emissions. So yeah, people, don't buy organics for the nutrition. Buy it for other reasons.

This. It's all about environmental sustainability.


What's the next goal post when that turns out not to be true?
 
2012-09-17 11:07:37 PM  
"Hey everyone! now we have a safer, healthier version of all that food you've been stuffing down your throats for decades. Now pay us more for thinking of your health."

Unless you're a [wealthy] young person who chooses organic food in your diet, why start eating organic now?
 
2012-09-17 11:08:00 PM  

jimmyego: Nutritional differences, less chemicals involved and fair trade aside, Whole Foods sells a philosophy.

Part of that positioning is attractive to people who would like to think their choices are better for themselves, others, and the Earth itself. So, given you are not only buying into the healthier food / agriculture argument, but an ethos too, it is worth the price for those who want to feel they are making a difference.

/Marketing is fun


Well, there's a point to the organic food crowd if they want weight loss. When I was living in China I only ate "organic" veggies because that's all that was available, and I lost 40 pounds in three months. Then I attempted to reverse the loss by eating only "organic" meat and it didn't work. What is labeled as "organic" in the US is absolute bullshiat. It's not organic. It's not safer than than the factory farm product, it's not more nutritious, and it certainly isn't more "natural." It just has a label granted to people willing to farm more expensively within the confines of Western food regulation.

If any of these people were buying straight out of the ground stuff like the rest of the world has to eat they'd be shiatting themselves in pain once a month as a reminder that some of those troublesome rules about food exist for a reason. You'll note I didn't say "eating straight out of the ground" - that's to head off all you assholes who have a backyard garden and wash your product more than you wash your nuts after a night with a Thai whore. I said "buying" because that's the issue here.
 
2012-09-17 11:09:59 PM  

b2theory: What's the next goal post when that turns out not to be true?


Not likely.
 
2012-09-17 11:19:54 PM  
This may come a shock to some people, but the definition of an efficient economic outcome is when the price of a good/service equals the cost to society of consuming said good/service.

If I may: "The equality of price with social marginal cost, by aligning the interest of the buyer with the interest of the community as a whole is a necessary condition for economically efficient resource allocation."

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_cost

That is all.

Please file your complaints in the form of a peer-reviewed paper; the committee awarding the Nobel Prize in Economics will take note if you have any stunning revelations.
 
2012-09-17 11:22:58 PM  

iamrex: b2theory: What's the next goal post when that turns out not to be true?

Not likely.


Why? Norman Borlaug was pretty certain that its advocates were overstating the ecological benefits. What happens when that suspicion is backed by evidence?
 
2012-09-17 11:32:23 PM  

b2theory: AntonSzandorLaVey: bdub77: I never thought organic broccoli was more nutritional than regular broccoli. There is more nutritional value in some of the beef they sell. However, it doesn't matter. I don't approve of pesticides and fertilizers in the overall food cycle, being washed into rivers, having an impact on the ecosystem. Some pesticides, despite FDA guidelines, can stay in your system for quite a while - I tend to trust the FDA but not all that much. And then you already have herbicide-resistant strains of weeds. And then there's also an emphasis on local growing, which reduces carbon emissions. So yeah, people, don't buy organics for the nutrition. Buy it for other reasons.

This. It's all about environmental sustainability.

What's the next goal post when that turns out not to be true?


Well first off the same Stanford study showed that the pesticides were lower than reported in the study. They said it was 30% lower but that was a risk difference and a critique of the study (Link) found the number was actually 81% lower. The study also did not distinguish what constituted heavy vs light pesticides. Given that the study was a meta-analysis, it sure sounds like organics give a much better shot at avoiding pesticides in your food.

Secondly, locally grown food has been shown to be more environmentally friendly because of the transportation costs and thus emissions are lower. Very few people dispute this.

And pesticides, fertilizers, and herbicides have been found to have an environmental impact in ecosystems. For example, pesticides have been linked to bee colony collapse. In case you're not familiar with ecosystems and agriculture, bees are kind of a big deal.
 
2012-09-17 11:33:28 PM  
It's cute when all the big business schlongchokers assemble to rally. D'aww! *pinches their cheeks, despite being a little freaked out by the corporate semen pouring out of the corners of their mouths*
 
2012-09-17 11:55:16 PM  

bdub77: b2theory: AntonSzandorLaVey: bdub77: I never thought organic broccoli was more nutritional than regular broccoli. There is more nutritional value in some of the beef they sell. However, it doesn't matter. I don't approve of pesticides and fertilizers in the overall food cycle, being washed into rivers, having an impact on the ecosystem. Some pesticides, despite FDA guidelines, can stay in your system for quite a while - I tend to trust the FDA but not all that much. And then you already have herbicide-resistant strains of weeds. And then there's also an emphasis on local growing, which reduces carbon emissions. So yeah, people, don't buy organics for the nutrition. Buy it for other reasons.

This. It's all about environmental sustainability.

What's the next goal post when that turns out not to be true?

Well first off the same Stanford study showed that the pesticides were lower than reported in the study. They said it was 30% lower but that was a risk difference and a critique of the study (Link) found the number was actually 81% lower. The study also did not distinguish what constituted heavy vs light pesticides. Given that the study was a meta-analysis, it sure sounds like organics give a much better shot at avoiding pesticides in your food.

Secondly, locally grown food has been shown to be more environmentally friendly because of the transportation costs and thus emissions are lower. Very few people dispute this.

And pesticides, fertilizers, and herbicides have been found to have an environmental impact in ecosystems. For example, pesticides have been linked to bee colony collapse. In case you're not familiar with ecosystems and agriculture, bees are kind of a big deal.


1) I have heard plenty of people challenge the food-mileage claims. There's a Guardian article on the subject.
1b) Most organic food isn't locally grown

2) They use pesticides in organic food production.

3) None of the foods tested had harmful levels of pesticides.

4) The pesticides linked to CCD appear to be those used directly on the bees to kill bee parasites.

Note: I'm not claiming that it isn't better. I just won't be surprised when it turns out that it isn't. Organic food advocates chronically argue the naturalistic fallacy.
 
2012-09-18 12:34:59 AM  
D) Nobody that has any experience with agriculture....
 
2012-09-18 01:36:18 AM  

b2theory: They use pesticides in organic food production


You do realise that there are plenty of organic pesticides, right ?
 
2012-09-18 01:45:42 AM  
Hemlock is 100% organic, but I wouldn't recommend making tea out of it.
 
2012-09-18 01:45:56 AM  
If we did go totally organic, there differently would be a less need for food.
 
2012-09-18 01:47:50 AM  
I'm quite happy with pesticides, thanks!

static.ddmcdn.com
 
2012-09-18 01:49:47 AM  
Jesus, Fark sure does have a hard-on for organic food. Let me break it down for 'ya so we can put this issue to bed. If you want organic food, buy it. If you don't want it, don't buy it.

/Free Markets, how do they work?
 
2012-09-18 01:56:09 AM  
I drive myself down to the store in my car and only buy organic vegis that have been trucked in at least 600-700 miles.
Then at check out I loudly brag about how far my organic, free range, cage free locally grown groceries came from.
Bonus: Mexico.
 
2012-09-18 01:59:58 AM  

b2theory: 1) I have heard plenty of people challenge the food-mileage claims. There's a Guardian article on the subject.
1b) Most organic food isn't locally grown

2) They use pesticides in organic food production.

3) None of the foods tested had harmful levels of pesticides.

4) The pesticides linked to CCD appear to be those used directly on the bees to kill bee parasites.

Note: I'm not claiming that it isn't better. I just won't be surprised when it turns out that it isn't. Organic food advocates chronically argue the naturalistic fallacy.


It's like a rule, just as on Fark, you will always find someone to contradict you on the internet. Researchers love to find holes in others' work. Some researchers are paid to find them. Some just want a sensational news story.

Look, most of the time local is better than global. There are exceptions. There are always exceptions. And yes most organics are not local. This varies by area. YMMV.

I don't want 'acceptable levels' of pesticides in my food. Neither do many organisms downstream from them. You are welcome to eat them, I prefer to avoid them but as I don't always eat organic, I'm sure I eat plenty of pesticides. In the end the studies found that about 1 in 20 organics had some pesticide residues on them, vs 1 in 3 for conventionals. If I eat organic food, the pesticides should be organic and are probably less harmful environmentally. There are studies on chemical pesticides that link them to lower IQ in humans. You note CCD was a different bee pesticide - well they didn't know about it until after they were using it. And who knows about the chemical cocktails they are using and any synergistic effects? Probably not the USDA.

In the end it's probably gonna be cooked red meat or alcohol or lack of exercise that kills me and not the veggies or the pesticides. But just the same I do prefer to buy certain organic foods on occasion. You can call me a sucker, but it's not cost prohibitive to me and I feel like I'm doing the environment a little favor.
 
2012-09-18 02:01:01 AM  
alienated: You do realise that there are plenty of organic pesticides, right ?

You're mixing and matching the definitions of organic.

To the chemist, organic means any carbon containing compound (with a few exceptions, like diamond).

To the biologist, organic means anything derived from a living organism.

To the organic movement (organists?), organic means food grown without using man made pesticides, additives or irradiation.

// oversimplified, but you get the gist

// In any event, organic != safe for humans (using ANY of the definitions above), for example, cyanide fits all of the above definitions (it has a carbon atom for the chemist, it's produced by plants and algae for the biologist and organists)
 
2012-09-18 02:10:09 AM  

lordargent: In any event, organic != safe for humans (using ANY of the definitions above), for example, cyanide fits all of the above definitions (it has a carbon atom for the chemist, it's produced by plants and algae for the biologist and organists)


"We only use Naturally Derived fertilizers and pesticides."

Would be cool if they actually did just throw out a few million ladybugs and praying mantises every year.
..and fertilizer from self composting lesbian hippie chick toilets.
 
2012-09-18 02:12:48 AM  
bdub77: There are studies on chemical pesticides that link them to lower IQ in humans.

As opposed to, non chemical pesticides?

// the chemist in me is shaking a tiny fist.
 
2012-09-18 02:14:29 AM  
OOps, actually I forgot, Cyanide is one of the exclusions so it doesn't meet the chemist's definition.

// damn exceptions :P
 
2012-09-18 02:21:09 AM  
Organic food is BS.
Link
 
2012-09-18 02:25:04 AM  

bdub77: b2theory: AntonSzandorLaVey: bdub77: I never thought organic broccoli was more nutritional than regular broccoli. There is more nutritional value in some of the beef they sell. However, it doesn't matter. I don't approve of pesticides and fertilizers in the overall food cycle, being washed into rivers, having an impact on the ecosystem. Some pesticides, despite FDA guidelines, can stay in your system for quite a while - I tend to trust the FDA but not all that much. And then you already have herbicide-resistant strains of weeds. And then there's also an emphasis on local growing, which reduces carbon emissions. So yeah, people, don't buy organics for the nutrition. Buy it for other reasons.

This. It's all about environmental sustainability.

What's the next goal post when that turns out not to be true?

Well first off the same Stanford study showed that the pesticides were lower than reported in the study. They said it was 30% lower but that was a risk difference and a critique of the study (Link) found the number was actually 81% lower. The study also did not distinguish what constituted heavy vs light pesticides. Given that the study was a meta-analysis, it sure sounds like organics give a much better shot at avoiding pesticides in your food.

Secondly, locally grown food has been shown to be more environmentally friendly because of the transportation costs and thus emissions are lower. Very few people dispute this.

And pesticides, fertilizers, and herbicides have been found to have an environmental impact in ecosystems. For example, pesticides have been linked to bee colony collapse. In case you're not familiar with ecosystems and agriculture, bees are kind of a big deal.


And because they don't use pesticides, organic farmers lose a good chunk of their crop. So there needs to be more farmland for the same yield. And more farmland = less of any ecosystem that happens to be near farmland.
 
2012-09-18 02:25:10 AM  

lordargent: bdub77: There are studies on chemical pesticides that link them to lower IQ in humans.

As opposed to, non chemical pesticides?

// the chemist in me is shaking a tiny fist.


Well, most everything is chemical. You know what I mean, I'm not going to get into natural vs artificial agricultural products. I'm certainly not going to argue that manmade chemicals are always worse than natural ones, because that's not always the case. But there are some studies and several organophosphates have been associated w/various cancers.
 
2012-09-18 02:26:36 AM  
Alas, some of us simply have no choice in this debate. Last time I tried to eat inorganic food it wreaked havoc on my colon.
 
2012-09-18 02:26:49 AM  
If you think organic food is expensive, try cancer.
 
2012-09-18 02:38:14 AM  

ReverendJasen: Alas, some of us simply have no choice in this debate. Last time I tried to eat inorganic food it wreaked havoc on my colon.


All food is organic by definition.

Stop eating gravel.
 
2012-09-18 02:38:59 AM  
The point of the organic food movement is simple, actually:

If you stop and think about what you eat, there's lots of shiat that you'll no longer want to ingest.

Because it becomes you.
 
2012-09-18 02:40:02 AM  

bdub77: notmtwain: Hole-fud is strong but the Stanford Study's conclusion that organic food has no claim to nutritional superiority will mark the beginning of a long slide for this company.

I never thought organic broccoli was more nutritional than regular broccoli. There is more nutritional value in some of the beef they sell. However, it doesn't matter. I don't approve of pesticides and fertilizers in the overall food cycle, being washed into rivers, having an impact on the ecosystem. Some pesticides, despite FDA guidelines, can stay in your system for quite a while - I tend to trust the FDA but not all that much. And then you already have herbicide-resistant strains of weeds. And then there's also an emphasis on local growing, which reduces carbon emissions.

So yeah, people, don't buy organics for the nutrition. Buy it for other reasons.


WELL PUT.

that said f--k the CEO of Whole Foods.

Buy what you can locally. If it's organic bonus. Do what you can, even if it's not 100%, and you'll be making a difference.

MORE of a difference if you grow in your backyard or on a patio. That's how my grandparents got by as recent (at the time obviously) immigrants w/o much money... and it still holds true today.

/just made a dinner for 7 people entirely from garden stuffs save pasta, flour, butter, and olive oil
//don't have to buy into WH BS pandering cause I *don't need to*
///awesome feeling
////my dad still hates cabbage and kohlrabi tho cause they were hardy prolific garden producers my grandfather grew a LOT of... so it goes
 
2012-09-18 02:40:18 AM  
Tim Minchin needs to write a joke about this so these farkers can repeat it ad nauseum and pretend that they're more intelligent than their fellows because a celebrity thinks the same way they do.
 
2012-09-18 02:42:04 AM  
I'm all for organic foods. Sure, hydrogen, oxygen and nitrogen have their place, but if you ask me, carbon-based food it where it's at.
 
2012-09-18 02:43:03 AM  

de_Selby: The point of the organic food movement is simple, actually:

If you stop and think about what you eat, there's lots of shiat that you'll no longer want to ingest.

Because it becomes you.


All joking aside, THIS. You are what you eat.
 
2012-09-18 02:44:36 AM  

Lsherm: jimmyego: Nutritional differences, less chemicals involved and fair trade aside, Whole Foods sells a philosophy.

Part of that positioning is attractive to people who would like to think their choices are better for themselves, others, and the Earth itself. So, given you are not only buying into the healthier food / agriculture argument, but an ethos too, it is worth the price for those who want to feel they are making a difference.

/Marketing is fun

Well, there's a point to the organic food crowd if they want weight loss. When I was living in China I only ate "organic" veggies because that's all that was available, and I lost 40 pounds in three months. Then I attempted to reverse the loss by eating only "organic" meat and it didn't work. What is labeled as "organic" in the US is absolute bullshiat. It's not organic. It's not safer than than the factory farm product, it's not more nutritious, and it certainly isn't more "natural." It just has a label granted to people willing to farm more expensively within the confines of Western food regulation.

If any of these people were buying straight out of the ground stuff like the rest of the world has to eat they'd be shiatting themselves in pain once a month as a reminder that some of those troublesome rules about food exist for a reason. You'll note I didn't say "eating straight out of the ground" - that's to head off all you assholes who have a backyard garden and wash your product more than you wash your nuts after a night with a Thai whore. I said "buying" because that's the issue here.


This may come as a surprise for you but I doubt Organic food had anything to do with your weight loss. Probably do to more lifestyle changes of being in china and the fact that so much of America's and other developed nations food is processed. Not to mention portions are way to large here.
 
2012-09-18 02:50:17 AM  

LordJiro: bdub77: b2theory: AntonSzandorLaVey: bdub77: I never thought organic broccoli was more nutritional than regular broccoli. There is more nutritional value in some of the beef they sell. However, it doesn't matter. I don't approve of pesticides and fertilizers in the overall food cycle, being washed into rivers, having an impact on the ecosystem. Some pesticides, despite FDA guidelines, can stay in your system for quite a while - I tend to trust the FDA but not all that much. And then you already have herbicide-resistant strains of weeds. And then there's also an emphasis on local growing, which reduces carbon emissions. So yeah, people, don't buy organics for the nutrition. Buy it for other reasons.

This. It's all about environmental sustainability.

What's the next goal post when that turns out not to be true?

Well first off the same Stanford study showed that the pesticides were lower than reported in the study. They said it was 30% lower but that was a risk difference and a critique of the study (Link) found the number was actually 81% lower. The study also did not distinguish what constituted heavy vs light pesticides. Given that the study was a meta-analysis, it sure sounds like organics give a much better shot at avoiding pesticides in your food.

Secondly, locally grown food has been shown to be more environmentally friendly because of the transportation costs and thus emissions are lower. Very few people dispute this.

And pesticides, fertilizers, and herbicides have been found to have an environmental impact in ecosystems. For example, pesticides have been linked to bee colony collapse. In case you're not familiar with ecosystems and agriculture, bees are kind of a big deal.

And because they don't use pesticides, organic farmers lose a good chunk of their crop. So there needs to be more farmland for the same yield. And more farmland = less of any ecosystem that happens to be near farmland.


Um, if you grow non monoculture crops WELL you can easily have better long term yields. This "soy year" followed by "corn year" is great for trading crops on market
.. and NOT MUCH ELSE.

I admit it's harder than using Round Up on everything ... butin the end, multiculture + natural beneficials (some you can eat, see nasturtium and borage) + proper crop rotation = in the long run both sustainable and lasting crops.

If you do it right - and this is almost a lost skill -you can have an organic self sustaining farm. And we should encourage that.
 
2012-09-18 02:50:33 AM  

LordJiro: And because they don't use pesticides, organic farmers lose a good chunk of their crop. So there needs to be more farmland for the same yield. And more farmland = less of any ecosystem that happens to be near farmland.


True. Tradeoffs, mostly due to lack of nitrogen. Crop yields are worse but not that much worse, depending on the product. And some of the chemicals used to provide nitrogen are mined or use chemical processes which require energy, which means less of an ecosystem near that location. I'm hoping part of the reason I pay more is because of this difference in crop yield. Would it work if 7 billion people tried it? Dunno. Probably not. Like I said, it's my choice. I tend to think organic farming is more sustainable.
 
2012-09-18 02:51:25 AM  
There is no such thing as an organic pesticide. If a chemical kills pests, then it's a pesticide and therefore harmful in some way.

The only way to farm truely organic is by using biological control, where specific predators of specific pests are allowed to snack keep the pests numbers down to a minimum. But that is costly since you can only do it with smaller fields. You see, the predators need to live somewhere during the off-season in order to be present in effective numbers - and that means more hedges and secondary crops in between the primary crops.

But at the same time this only deals with the invertebrate attacks, not the diseases.
So all in all, truely organic food is going to be costly as hell, since the yield on a given field is going to be very low compared to industrialized farming.

I don't eat organic food, and I don't buy what's labelled organic since it's a sham.
The only organic food I get my hands on is what my parents grow in their backyard.
 
2012-09-18 02:55:33 AM  

bdub77: LordJiro: And because they don't use pesticides, organic farmers lose a good chunk of their crop. So there needs to be more farmland for the same yield. And more farmland = less of any ecosystem that happens to be near farmland.

True. Tradeoffs, mostly due to lack of nitrogen. Crop yields are worse but not that much worse, depending on the product. And some of the chemicals used to provide nitrogen are mined or use chemical processes which require energy, which means less of an ecosystem near that location. I'm hoping part of the reason I pay more is because of this difference in crop yield. Would it work if 7 billion people tried it? Dunno. Probably not. Like I said, it's my choice. I tend to think organic farming is more sustainable.


BUNNIES.

Seriously, as pets, food, or sustainable fur, they kick ass.

Our house cat adds jack to our garden. Our pet bunny's bedding on the other hand has spured tomato growth *and* acted as a compost accelerator. Our bunny rocks
 
2012-09-18 02:56:17 AM  

b2theory: AntonSzandorLaVey: bdub77: I never thought organic broccoli was more nutritional than regular broccoli. There is more nutritional value in some of the beef they sell. However, it doesn't matter. I don't approve of pesticides and fertilizers in the overall food cycle, being washed into rivers, having an impact on the ecosystem. Some pesticides, despite FDA guidelines, can stay in your system for quite a while - I tend to trust the FDA but not all that much. And then you already have herbicide-resistant strains of weeds. And then there's also an emphasis on local growing, which reduces carbon emissions. So yeah, people, don't buy organics for the nutrition. Buy it for other reasons.

This. It's all about environmental sustainability.

What's the next goal post when that turns out not to be true?


It's already not true. Buying organic is NOT the same thing as buying locally, which is the only real metric for sustainability that should be used. If you buy "organic" but it was grown in some holistic field in Peru, flown 10,000 miles by cargo jet to LAX, and then shipped cross-country in a Whole Foods refrigerated van, your purchase didn't do squat for the environment, or rather, the savings in not using chemical fertilizer and pesticides doesn't even come close to offsetting the damage done by gulping down all that jet fuel, gasoline and freon.

If you want sustainability, you only buy locally, and then we can discuss the fertilizer thing, since raw cow manure is toxic both to the waterways and ground water and to your stomach if it's got some E. coli in it. Eating organic foods--again--does not help the environment if you must be taken to a hospital to recover from the colon damage done by poisoned cow shiat.
 
2012-09-18 03:02:55 AM  

spacelord321: You are what you eat.


That's what she said!
 
2012-09-18 03:03:09 AM  

Gyrfalcon: b2theory: AntonSzandorLaVey: bdub77: I never thought organic broccoli was more nutritional than regular broccoli. There is more nutritional value in some of the beef they sell. However, it doesn't matter. I don't approve of pesticides and fertilizers in the overall food cycle, being washed into rivers, having an impact on the ecosystem. Some pesticides, despite FDA guidelines, can stay in your system for quite a while - I tend to trust the FDA but not all that much. And then you already have herbicide-resistant strains of weeds. And then there's also an emphasis on local growing, which reduces carbon emissions. So yeah, people, don't buy organics for the nutrition. Buy it for other reasons.

This. It's all about environmental sustainability.

What's the next goal post when that turns out not to be true?

It's already not true. Buying organic is NOT the same thing as buying locally, which is the only real metric for sustainability that should be used. If you buy "organic" but it was grown in some holistic field in Peru, flown 10,000 miles by cargo jet to LAX, and then shipped cross-country in a Whole Foods refrigerated van, your purchase didn't do squat for the environment, or rather, the savings in not using chemical fertilizer and pesticides doesn't even come close to offsetting the damage done by gulping down all that jet fuel, gasoline and freon.

If you want sustainability, you only buy locally, and then we can discuss the fertilizer thing, since raw cow manure is toxic both to the waterways and ground water and to your stomach if it's got some E. coli in it. Eating organic foods--again--does not help the environment if you must be taken to a hospital to recover from the colon damage done by poisoned cow shiat.


Cow and large animal manure, read, horses, CAN be used responsibly as a fertilizer ... but the one farm I know of that does ages/composts their manure for at least a year, more often 10, before they sell.

As far as I've seen leaking into waterways is a CAFO problem more than anything else.
 
2012-09-18 03:05:11 AM  

lohphat: spacelord321: You are what you eat.

That's what she said!


Don't remind me.
 
2012-09-18 03:06:02 AM  
That said between buying organic vs buying local, technically organic but can't afford the label I choose local every time _
 
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