I give a puck.

I'd give a flying puck.

No, that's not right.

I want to WATCH a flying puck. Damn the owners. Puck off, Gary Bettman.

they're gonna lose at least a couple of months of the season.

I don't care about the owners, the players or,even the other fans. I really feel bad for the lowly employees and food workers, the bartenders the people in the parking garages. These are the ones that are truly in danger. Thanks to the owners and players people will lose their houses and cause heartache to those who can least afford it. Kudos to you selfish bastards.

Techhell: Either the NHL is going to cave when Sidney Crosby, and other North American stars sign contracts to play in the KHL this year, or the season will be lost.

Sorry concession dudettes, parking dudes, usher dudettes, and other minimum wage making drudges who were looking to make the winter financially bearable by working part time for NHL teams. This is going to be a shiatty winter for you.

My friend's sister was counting on her new job at Joe Lewis Arena this winter. But hey, she's a single mother living in Detroit, I'm sure she'll have tons of other job opportunities, right?

Ugh, Joe LOUIS, hate auto fill.

Sports owners are, by and large, the dumbest of dumb rich folks.

Fark Bettman and the owners.

Techhell: Either the NHL is going to cave when Sidney Crosby, and other North American stars sign contracts to play in the KHL this year, or the season will be lost.

Sorry concession dudettes, parking dudes, usher dudettes, and other minimum wage making drudges who were looking to make the winter financially bearable by working part time for NHL teams. This is going to be a shiatty winter for you.

Didn't see you beat me to the point by a few minutes. Well said.

Yeah, well, I've discovered the perfect business: people swarm in, empty their pockets, and scuttle off. Nothing can stop me now.

I don't have numbers to back this up. So if anyone wants to tell me I'm wrong, cool.

But it seems like the problem is that a sports team is, often, a VERY bad investment. Say a hockey team is worth about 200 million dollars. If you have 200 million dollars, you might buy yourself a hockey team. If the team's of average ability and in an average location with an average fanbase, it probably makes you some money.

But compared to the sorts of things super-rich folks can do with 200 million, it probably makes you a LOT less money than those other opportunities.

So to the owners, they're "losing" money in that they could be making more money elsewhere, rather than looking at the ability to own a sports team as a privilege in its own right.

/There are probably a few excepts.
//And owners are great at making it look like they are losing money.
///Also, at least some of them actually are.

September 16, 2012

The date of the first "Gary Bettman Hat Trick"

dafatone

Thats pretty much it. A sports team is a good long term investment. TEam values usually go up as the league grows, and for most teams, it has. The owners just want to be able to make more money on the short term as well. They want not only to profit on their long term ownership, but on short term year to year operations.

But instead of treating an annual profit like a privilege, they want to make it a right. Rather than force teams to make money by having sound management (unlike Columbus) and being in a good location (unlike Anaheim, Florida and some other desert team that escapes me at the moment wink wink nudge nudge), the owners want the players to take a pay cut and to be locked onto their entry-level team for the first 10 years of their career.

So they decided to cry poor and talk about how much money they're losing, all the while handing giant sacks of money to players they "cant afford to pay that much" behind their backs, like we don't notice.

The first step to ending this lockout is simple fire Bettman. then get someone with a brain to run the NHL.

Jamdug!: [chzhistoriclols.files.wordpress.com image 500x409]

This bears repeating, becuz:

Dafatone: I don't have numbers to back this up. So if anyone wants to tell me I'm wrong, cool.

But it seems like the problem is that a sports team is, often, a VERY bad investment. Say a hockey team is worth about 200 million dollars. If you have 200 million dollars, you might buy yourself a hockey team. If the team's of average ability and in an average location with an average fanbase, it probably makes you some money.

But compared to the sorts of things super-rich folks can do with 200 million, it probably makes you a LOT less money than those other opportunities.

So to the owners, they're "losing" money in that they could be making more money elsewhere, rather than looking at the ability to own a sports team as a privilege in its own right.

/There are probably a few excepts.
//And owners are great at making it look like they are losing money.
///Also, at least some of them actually are.

Ding ding ding! There was a Grantland article along those lines back when the NBA was having its labor pains: 'Psychic Benefits' and the NBA Lockout. The idea is that sports teams aren't just businesses any more than works of art are just investments. They're partially consumer goods in the sense that they provide value to their owners beyond their earning potential, value the article calls "psychic benefits." Those benefits are priced into a franchise when it's sold, which is why they generally go for much more than the monetary value of their assets. But when it comes time to negotiate a CBA, those benefits are downplayed or ignored altogether. So the owners are misrepresenting, if unintentionally, how much the teams are truly worth to them.

I'm wondering how much of this is driven by what happened in the NBA last year. It looks to me like the NBA owners (and possibly the NHL owners) learned that they can cancel the first month of the regular season, force the players to play a condensed schedule to make up for lost games, and get roughly the same revenue with fewer expenses. This is because (at least in the NBA) the TV revenue is heavily weighted toward the end of the regular season (after football ends) and the playoffs.

MFAWG: Jamdug!: [chzhistoriclols.files.wordpress.com image 500x409]

This bears repeating, becuz:

[whl.uploads.mrx.ca image 625x513]

It's too bad you don't live in a town with a good WHL team. Like Cranbrook . . .

Can the NHL really even afford another lockout? Seriously, with as much as some TV revenue streams are drying up because ratings are so terrible, it's to the point where the regional sports networks don't even want to broadcast them. It seems to me that losing another season to a lockout might be a punishing and possibly final blow to them and force them to go down the path of the Arena Football League where the original league goes bankrupt and a group of owners from their minor leagues comes and buys and subsequently re-forms the league as a skeleton of its former self.

I'll be good, but I'll feel better once the Rangers are playing again.

BTW the FHL is probably my favorite of them - it's the closest arena to me, and it's a rocking loud for an arena that seats the equivalent of two sections in MSG. Fun fun hockey.

detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: I don't care about the owners, the players or,even the other fans. I really feel bad for the lowly employees and food workers, the bartenders the people in the parking garages. These are the ones that are truly in danger. Thanks to the owners and players people will lose their houses and cause heartache to those who can least afford it. Kudos to you selfish bastards.

There is a mew trend where most positions at the stadium are worked by volunteers. My sister runs a concession stand at the Denver Bronco's games to raise money for her kids track team. This year is the first year 100% of the concession stands are manned by volunteers. The owners get a higher standard of employee and they get to tax deduct what they pay them because it's a payment to charity. Hooray for the job creators. Thank god theyre benevolent enough to keep the little guys best interest at heart.

elguerodiablo: detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: I don't care about the owners, the players or,even the other fans. I really feel bad for the lowly employees and food workers, the bartenders the people in the parking garages. These are the ones that are truly in danger. Thanks to the owners and players people will lose their houses and cause heartache to those who can least afford it. Kudos to you selfish bastards.

There is a mew trend where most positions at the stadium are worked by volunteers. My sister runs a concession stand at the Denver Bronco's games to raise money for her kids track team. This year is the first year 100% of the concession stands are manned by volunteers. The owners get a higher standard of employee and they get to tax deduct what they pay them because it's a payment to charity. Hooray for the job creators. Thank god theyre benevolent enough to keep the little guys best interest at heart.

Sure a lot of in stadium jobs are volunteers but the guy running the garage across the street, the waitress at the pub two blocks away. Those are the real losers in this game of chicken.

TheJoe03: I hope they realize they will lose fans if they lose a season, they're no NFL, MLB, or NBA and even those leagues know better (MLB learned the hard way). If they do what the NBA did last year they'll be fine but a lost season will allow the MLS to take their spot eventually.

The MLS is already the "Third most popular professional sport" in terms of fan attendance behind MLB, then NFL. They are ahead of the NBA and NHL. This will only push the NHL further behind the NBA.

/you could argue it has to do with shorter seasons/less games, but MLB has a ridiculously long season/amount of games and they are still first

This is, by and large, the attitude of team owners regardless of which sport they represent.

I'm starting to feel it's time to trade in my Sabres hat for a Chargers or Timbers hat. At least people don't seem to ask what a Charger or Timber is.

Meanwhile, everyone who lives south of the Ohio River rolls over and goes back to sleep.

Ice hockey in Florida? It's like serving mint juleps in Maine.

TheJoe03: I hope they realize they will lose fans if they lose a season, they're no NFL, MLB, or NBA and even those leagues know better (MLB learned the hard way). If they do what the NBA did last year they'll be fine but a lost season will allow the MLS to take their spot eventually.

Spot on. It took me years to get back into baseball after their strike, and it still isn't the same love I had for the game before that crap happened. Baseball used to be my love, now it's 3rd in line.

TheJoe03: OhioUGrad: The MLS is already the "Third most popular professional sport" in terms of fan attendance behind MLB

That doesn't really count, they play in bigger venues. What matters is ratings and that is what I'm talking about. No one can really say the MLS is more popular than the NBA just based on attendance, it's disingenuous.

Unless I'm missing something, pretty sure the MLS soccer only venues are on par with NHL arenas (around 20K in each). Ratings you're probably right, and I can see the MLS surpassing NHL there if they have a lockout, especially since most MLS teams have been picked up by FoxSports.

TheJoe03: Mr. Coffee Nerves: Someday an enterprising reporter will dig deep and discover that Gary Bettman has NEVER left the payroll of the NBA and has been performing his true job with utter brilliance and unparalleled success.

Wasn't there a point when the NHL was close to the NBA in terms of popularity, either the 70s or before Jordan got his titles?

Late '80's early '90's. Both league were on the cusp of moving into the 3rd spot. But than Stern reccomended Bettman to the NHL in '93 and...well...

I finally just got back into hockey after giving it up thanks to this bullshiat, and yet here we are again.

/goddammitsomuch....

Verfall: TheJoe03: Mr. Coffee Nerves: Someday an enterprising reporter will dig deep and discover that Gary Bettman has NEVER left the payroll of the NBA and has been performing his true job with utter brilliance and unparalleled success.

Wasn't there a point when the NHL was close to the NBA in terms of popularity, either the 70s or before Jordan got his titles?

Late '80's early '90's. Both league were on the cusp of moving into the 3rd spot. But than Stern reccomended Bettman to the NHL in '93 and...well...

Huck And Molly Ziegler: Meanwhile, everyone who lives south of the Ohio River rolls over and goes back to sleep.

Ice hockey in Florida? It's like serving mint juleps in Maine.

Except for, you know, the Lightning winning a Stanley Cup and the resurgent Panthers(who are probably one of the teams that stand to lose the most if the NHL bogarts this season).

Yeah, hockey in Florida. It's awful!

After the last lockout, with all the doom and gloom prognostications about how the league was finished and fans wouldn't put up with such shenanigans, I doubt the owners are really worrying too much about Joe Blow and his level of hockey support. Since 2005 revenues have soared, the sport is as popular as its been in two decades, and even the much-aligned TV contract is looking halfway decent.

It was because of all that that I assumed there'd be no lockout. I spent the last year scoffing at people who'd bring it up. Why would the league mess with an arrangement that worked? Sure, some tweaks here and there. Maybe broaden revenue sharing to buoy some of the unluckier teams. Seal some of the cap circumvention loopholes. But nothing that'd result in a big fight or threat of a missing season.

How naive I was.

So here we are. Again. Some of us talking like we might not be back. But we will. And the owners know that. They can bleed the players some more, screw around with empty arenas for 2 months or 6 months, and in the end they can count on people coming back. Meanwhile, there won't be any great headway on revenue sharing, the NHLPA and the bigger teams will keep most of the cap circumvention loopholes in place, and the only thing that will change when the NHL returns is that the owners will be making more money.

If you really want to make your voices heard as fans, go after the players, even if you sympathize with them (as you should this time around). Because in the end, they're going to end up losing, anyway, so they may as well get it over with and get back on the ice.

I'm done! I love hockey but I over it. And thus I have locked out the NHL from my wallet as long as Gary Buttman is running things.

Fark that guy!!!

MFAWG: Jamdug!: [chzhistoriclols.files.wordpress.com image 500x409]

This bears repeating, becuz:

[whl.uploads.mrx.ca image 625x513]

Go T-Birds!!! Got my season tix. See you Saturday.
I'll relax and enjoy a little WHL while the NHL owners remind me why I hate them so much.

Well, in the owner's defense, these people DO enjoy hockey.

Its not far fetched to think that people who enjoy soccer on ice aren't are probably easily separated from their money.

swahnhennessy: After the last lockout, with all the doom and gloom prognostications about how the league was finished and fans wouldn't put up with such shenanigans, I doubt the owners are really worrying too much about Joe Blow and his level of hockey support. Since 2005 revenues have soared, the sport is as popular as its been in two decades, and even the much-aligned TV contract is looking halfway decent.

It was because of all that that I assumed there'd be no lockout. I spent the last year scoffing at people who'd bring it up. Why would the league mess with an arrangement that worked? Sure, some tweaks here and there. Maybe broaden revenue sharing to buoy some of the unluckier teams. Seal some of the cap circumvention loopholes. But nothing that'd result in a big fight or threat of a missing season.

How naive I was.

So here we are. Again. Some of us talking like we might not be back. But we will. And the owners know that. They can bleed the players some more, screw around with empty arenas for 2 months or 6 months, and in the end they can count on people coming back. Meanwhile, there won't be any great headway on revenue sharing, the NHLPA and the bigger teams will keep most of the cap circumvention loopholes in place, and the only thing that will change when the NHL returns is that the owners will be making more money.

If you really want to make your voices heard as fans, go after the players, even if you sympathize with them (as you should this time around). Because in the end, they're going to end up losing, anyway, so they may as well get it over with and get back on the ice.

That would actually do more harm than good. Because then we *will* end up with another lockout down the road, if the players cave now, once again.

That's also an incredibly selfish viewpoint - and I'm a huge hockey fan. So we should attack the side(not that either side is the good guy, really) that's of the weaker position, and also the side that didn't cause this work stoppage(lockout is from the owners side; strike would be from the players side) simply so we can get our fix quicker? That seems awfully selfish of the fans. And you're in frigging Sweden - go watch the Swedish leagues. Me? I'm going to go to some AHL games.

Also, anyone who thinks Donald Fehr will roll over is clueless. This is the same guy who authorized the 1994 MLBPA players strike that cancelled half the season and the playoffs that year. He's also a protege of Marvin Miller, the legendary MLBPA head that helped overturn the reserve clause and bring about free agency. Donald Fehr is not going to roll over for the owners or Bettman, even if it costs a season.

Talondel: I'm wondering how much of this is driven by what happened in the NBA last year. It looks to me like the NBA owners (and possibly the NHL owners) learned that they can cancel the first month of the regular season, force the players to play a condensed schedule to make up for lost games, and get roughly the same revenue with fewer expenses. This is because (at least in the NBA) the TV revenue is heavily weighted toward the end of the regular season (after football ends) and the playoffs.

If that's the case, maybe it's time to cut the season by 20 games or so.

C'mon subby. It's ATM MACHINES!

So it's all the owners' fault? The players share no responsibility in coming up with a compromise? To that end the players look at the fans in the same light. The owners are offering a 50-50 share in hockey revenues. That's revenues. The players do not offset their share of revenues with expenses. The players do not have investment or business risk. So the player's only risk is to play the game they grew up loving at the highest level, and while that assumes risk of injury, that sure as hell didn't stop them from playing when they weren't paid in Major Juniors. It doesn't stop the beer leaguers from doing the same simply for the love of the game. What is wrong with 50% of the revenues? I'm missing something here.

grimlock1972: The first step to ending this lockout is simple fire Bettman. then get someone with a brain to run the NHL.

it's been tried

In Philadelphia, when the games are being played, they're called the Stepford Fans. It remains to be seen how many retain that title once the ice chips have cleared on this lockout if they retain that title.