If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(CNN)   Just like Fark admins, judge greenlights a repeat from the 1970s   (cnn.com) divider line 55
    More: Followup, Army Special Forces, Fark, federal jury, Joe McGinniss, evidentiary hearing, new trial, Fort Bragg, federal judges  
•       •       •

11763 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Sep 2012 at 4:20 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



55 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread
 
2012-09-17 04:11:26 PM
Just today finished Morris' book -- and it seems MacDonald got railroaded.
 
2012-09-17 04:15:19 PM

Speaker2Animals: Just today finished Morris' book -- and it seems MacDonald got railroaded.



I, too, share enough reasonable doubt upon his guilt. I dont know why, I just do. Its not that I believe his insane Satan worshiping cult story checks out (it is a bit far fetched), its something else.
 
2012-09-17 04:24:37 PM
He awoke to find three men and one woman, whom he described as having blond hair and wearing a floppy hat. They chanted "kill the pigs" and "acid's groovy" before attacking him, MacDonald said.

#include "smellslikebullshiat.h"
 
2012-09-17 04:25:28 PM
+1 for knowing the difference between a mod and an admin.
 
2012-09-17 04:30:55 PM
Interesting
 
2012-09-17 04:31:13 PM

Hack Patooey: #include "smellslikebullshiat.h"


Wow. Somebody's kickin' it old school.
 
2012-09-17 04:31:28 PM
"Groovy" had a short and prior currency to this event. Cmon!
 
Qel
2012-09-17 04:34:34 PM
Brace yourselves for the armchair CSI s and Prosecutors.
 
2012-09-17 04:36:32 PM
Dirty rottin" hippies!1!1!
 
2012-09-17 04:38:03 PM

Cybernetic: Hack Patooey: #include "smellslikebullshiat.h"

Wow. Somebody's kickin' it old school.


Sorry, I've been armpit deep in some old but necessary code the last few days. Hang on...

YAML.load_file("#{app_root}/images/smellslikebullshiat.yml")

better?
 
2012-09-17 04:38:10 PM

Rufus Lee King: Hack Patooey: He awoke to find three men and one woman, whom he described as having blond hair and wearing a floppy hat. They chanted "kill the pigs" and "acid's groovy" before attacking him, MacDonald said.

#include "smellslikebullshiat.h"

Yes, that's a bit much, ain't it?


Yeah, just when Charlie Manson was all the rage, too. How convenient.
 
2012-09-17 04:39:39 PM
Yes, gangs of roving hippies always yell out "Acid's groovy" while they commit multiple murders.

/didn't read a book with an agenda, but that in and of itself sounds pretty BS on its face.
 
2012-09-17 04:40:40 PM

Dr.Fey: Yes, gangs of roving hippies always yell out "Acid's groovy" while they commit multiple murders.

/didn't read a book with an agenda, but that in and of itself sounds pretty BS on its face.


Unless, of course, they WERE on acid.

Or maybe HE was on acid and just imagined they said that but they actually DID do it.
 
2012-09-17 04:42:14 PM

Point02GPA: Dirty rottin" hippies!1!1!


forums.pelicanparts.com
 
2012-09-17 04:43:08 PM

Rufus Lee King: Lenny_da_Hog: Yeah, just when Charlie Manson was all the rage, too. How convenient.

Damn! Four seconds. But that's sort of too obvious to miss.


I had a head-start. I remember thinking that at the time of the trial in the 70s.

/forgot about the story until I saw that line...
 
2012-09-17 04:43:23 PM
"He and his attorneys will argue that new DNA tests show that hair samples found underneath the fingernail of one of the victims did not come from a member of the MacDonald family and presumably were from one of the killers." So, one of the daughters might not have gotten it while playing rough house with a neighbor? As to the nutbag who claimed she was in the house and then changed her story on the stand, her existence was included her in Fatal Vision and it basically said everyone realized she was an attention whore whose mental balance was unstable.
 
2012-09-17 04:44:09 PM
The guy is a lying sleezebag. He is guilty as hell. Wait a few decades and obscure the case and reasonable doubt will creep in. The evidence in the case was clear in the first trial. His violent temper was well known. I doubt many people will recall this case.
 
2012-09-17 04:44:12 PM

Hack Patooey: He awoke to find three men and one woman, whom he described as having blond hair and wearing a floppy hat. They chanted "kill the pigs" and "acid's groovy" before attacking him, MacDonald said.

#include "smellslikebullshiat.h"


www.misterkitty.org
 
2012-09-17 04:47:29 PM
Doesn't MacDonald have a little problem with being a...oh, what's the term...a pathological liar?

Doesn't necessarily make him a murderer, I know, but he's not the most ympathetic character..
 
2012-09-17 04:47:44 PM

Qel: Brace yourselves for the armchair CSI s and Prosecutors.


You know they will find SOMETHING.
 
2012-09-17 04:47:56 PM

Hack Patooey: He awoke to find three men and one woman, whom he described as having blond hair and wearing a floppy hat. They chanted "kill the pigs" and "acid's groovy" before attacking him, MacDonald said.

#include "smellslikebullshiat.h"


I read that during the stabbings they were also chanting "and for all the little piggies life is getting worse"

/eat your bacon!
 
2012-09-17 04:49:04 PM

Speaker2Animals: Just today finished Morris' book -- and it seems MacDonald got railroaded.


Can you elaborate? From the description on wikipedia it seems a pretty open and shut case. Especially condemning is the fact that the wife and children were stabbed 10-30 times and beaten with a club and this guy just had superficial injuries.
 
2012-09-17 04:55:58 PM

Rufus Lee King: Hack Patooey: He awoke to find three men and one woman, whom he described as having blond hair and wearing a floppy hat. They chanted "kill the pigs" and "acid's groovy" before attacking him, MacDonald said.

#include "smellslikebullshiat.h"

Yes, that's a bit much, ain't it?


Yup.

"We've been sold a bill of goods about this case," Morris said. "It's as phony as a three-dollar bill."

As phony as a tale about candle-carrying ninja hippies chanting "acid is groovy" and "kill the pigs"?
 
2012-09-17 04:57:41 PM
"Acid's groovy" is not one of the things I think of when stabbing people. "Die farking pig" is perfect, with the sharp edgy sounds. Basically, if you can't sing it ala Punk, you can't stab with it.

It really does sound like a copy cat of the Manson Murders, which was interesting because Charlie never did any of the killing himself...
 
2012-09-17 04:58:25 PM
images2.wikia.nocookie.net
Get it over already.
 
2012-09-17 04:58:52 PM
1970s? More like nine days ago, subby.
 
2012-09-17 05:00:39 PM

Rufus Lee King: Sounds as if he just "borrowed" the story from the Manson murders.


Well, they've got him on copyright infringement anyway.
 
2012-09-17 05:03:34 PM
I read Fatal Vision many years ago, and I read through the Wikipedia page on the case just now and yeah, he did it. His lawyers are throwing out little tidbits of evidence that are just lost in the noise when matched up against the evidence in favor of him being the murderer. Which is what defense lawyers do. If all they've got is what is reported on CNN he shouldn't get a new trial. It sounds like stuff that was used in his last appeal.
 
2012-09-17 05:04:39 PM

Lenny_da_Hog: Rufus Lee King: Hack Patooey: He awoke to find three men and one woman, whom he described as having blond hair and wearing a floppy hat. They chanted "kill the pigs" and "acid's groovy" before attacking him, MacDonald said.

#include "smellslikebullshiat.h"

Yes, that's a bit much, ain't it?

Yeah, just when Charlie Manson was all the rage, too. How convenient.


So he stabbed himself in the lung?
 
2012-09-17 05:04:57 PM
i.ytimg.com

Sock it to ME?
 
2012-09-17 05:18:08 PM

Qel: Brace yourselves for the armchair CSI s and Prosecutors.


like i was saying, i watch all those damn True Crime genre TV shows. there's more than one episode about this case. i'll be gotdam'd if this boy didn't get railroaded. farking Green Berets are top shelf material. best of the best. they don't crack crazy and run amuck, unless you happen to be The Enemy.
 
2012-09-17 05:20:55 PM
It's about damn time. The man is innocent. One of the killers confessed on her deathbed. The facts were covered up and MacDonald was made the fall guy because she was a general's daughter.
 
2012-09-17 05:22:48 PM

KrispyKritter: Qel: Brace yourselves for the armchair CSI s and Prosecutors.

like i was saying, i watch all those damn True Crime genre TV shows. there's more than one episode about this case. i'll be gotdam'd if this boy didn't get railroaded. farking Green Berets are top shelf material. best of the best. they don't crack crazy and run amuck, unless you happen to be The Enemy.


Yeah, I'm going to go with physical evidence over your character assessment.
 
2012-09-17 05:24:31 PM

KrispyKritter: like i was saying, i watch all those damn True Crime genre TV shows. there's more than one episode about this case. i'll be gotdam'd if this boy didn't get railroaded. farking Green Berets are top shelf material. best of the best. they don't crack crazy and run amuck, unless you happen to be The Enemy.


Apparently you weren't paying much attention about 10 years ago, were you?
 
2012-09-17 05:33:21 PM
MAYORBOB: So, one of the daughters might not have gotten it while playing rough house with a neighbor? As to the nutbag who claimed she was in the house and then changed her story on the stand, her existence was included her in Fatal Vision and it basically said everyone realized she was an attention whore whose mental balance was unstable.

Regardless, a jury should get to make that determination about the DNA evidence.
 
2012-09-17 05:39:06 PM

steve_wmn: I read Fatal Vision many years ago, and I read through the Wikipedia page on the case just now and yeah, he did it.


When I read that book (a long time ago also) I went in WANTING him to be innocent for some reason or another. When I finished the book I had accepted that he was guilty.
 
2012-09-17 05:43:01 PM

StoPPeRmobile: Lenny_da_Hog: Rufus Lee King: Hack Patooey: He awoke to find three men and one woman, whom he described as having blond hair and wearing a floppy hat. They chanted "kill the pigs" and "acid's groovy" before attacking him, MacDonald said.

#include "smellslikebullshiat.h"

Yes, that's a bit much, ain't it?

Yeah, just when Charlie Manson was all the rage, too. How convenient.

So he stabbed himself in the lung?


You say this as if self-injury is an unbelievable prospect. Just a couple of weeks ago in Alaska there was a story about a guy who had a friend shoot him with a shotgun so he wouldn't have to go to active duty in the ME.
 
2012-09-17 05:48:22 PM

offmymeds: [i.ytimg.com image 480x360]

Sock it to ME?


All i see in that picture is "Sacrifice......Sacrifice......Sacrifice......Sacrifice......Sacrifice ......"


You took to much man....too much too much.

Even if it IS from Laugh In.
 
2012-09-17 05:49:10 PM
They chanted "kill the pigs" and "acid's groovy" before attacking him,

Hippies only act like that in paranoid anti-hippy propaganda pieces.

He and his attorneys will argue that new DNA tests show that hair samples found underneath the fingernail of one of the victims did not come from a member of the MacDonald family and presumably were from one of the killers.

I'm guessing the woman MacDonald married doesn't have MacDonald DNA...
 
2012-09-17 05:56:18 PM
Speaking of Fark admins...I wish they'd get some on the West Coast. This place comes to a screeching halt around 2:30pm Pacific Time.

I get that everyone on the East Coast has left work and doesn't need to be distracted by this time, but I still have three hours of work time to squander, and I want to see some new articles.
 
2012-09-17 07:12:52 PM

cman: Speaker2Animals: Just today finished Morris' book -- and it seems MacDonald got railroaded.


I, too, share enough reasonable doubt upon his guilt. I dont know why, I just do. Its not that I believe his insane Satan worshiping cult story checks out (it is a bit far fetched), its something else.


Meh, I still think that MacDonald, a clever enough guy, saw the group of hippies wandering around the vicinity that night, knew others had seen them, and figured he could pin the murders on them, thus creating reasonable doubt (if only the jury believed him). It's hard to recall nowadays, but back then, right after the Manson murders, murderous hippie cults were as believable in the Middle American mind as murderous Muslim terrorists are today.

If it was today, MacDonald would likely claim he saw a couple of black youths wearing hoodies killing his family, with the same hope of creating reasonable doubt.
 
2012-09-17 07:24:54 PM
His appeal must have been sumitted by the Daily Mail
 
2012-09-17 07:52:53 PM

Lenny_da_Hog: StoPPeRmobile: Lenny_da_Hog: Rufus Lee King: Hack Patooey: He awoke to find three men and one woman, whom he described as having blond hair and wearing a floppy hat. They chanted "kill the pigs" and "acid's groovy" before attacking him, MacDonald said.

#include "smellslikebullshiat.h"

Yes, that's a bit much, ain't it?

Yeah, just when Charlie Manson was all the rage, too. How convenient.

So he stabbed himself in the lung?

You say this as if self-injury is an unbelievable prospect. Just a couple of weeks ago in Alaska there was a story about a guy who had a friend shoot him with a shotgun so he wouldn't have to go to active duty in the ME.


Lung? Sounds farking crazy.

So what kind of injury did the chickenshiat in Alaska sustain?
 
2012-09-17 08:20:34 PM

Satanic_Hamster: Dr.Fey: Yes, gangs of roving hippies always yell out "Acid's groovy" while they commit multiple murders.

/didn't read a book with an agenda, but that in and of itself sounds pretty BS on its face.

Unless, of course, they WERE on acid.

Or maybe HE was on acid and just imagined they said that but they actually DID do it.

t0.gstatic.com
 
2012-09-17 08:48:32 PM

MBooda: 1970s? More like nine days ago, subby.


Indeed. And this is a followup to that thread.
 
2012-09-17 08:51:27 PM

lostcat: Speaking of Fark admins...I wish they'd get some on the West Coast. This place comes to a screeching halt around 2:30pm Pacific Time.

I get that everyone on the East Coast has left work and doesn't need to be distracted by this time, but I still have three hours of work time to squander, and I want to see some new articles.


There are West Coast admins, but we have jobs too, as do the East Coast and Central time zone admins.
 
2012-09-17 09:05:02 PM
As I recall the case, the family lived on base. So for his story to be true, a group of three "hippies" got past security, went wandering around the base, in the middle of the night, commits 3 horrific murders, and wanders away, again, unobserved. Just seems a little farfetched to me.
 
2012-09-17 09:26:23 PM

mr intrepid: As I recall the case, the family lived on base. So for his story to be true, a group of three "hippies" got past security, went wandering around the base, in the middle of the night, commits 3 horrific murders, and wanders away, again, unobserved. Just seems a little farfetched to me.


It's been awhile since I've read "Fatal Vision", but I should dig out my copy and re-read it. However, I'm pretty certain you're correct about them living on base since I recall the MPs visiting the home regularly (it was still considered a crime scene) and doing routine things like defrosing the refrigerator freezer.
 
2012-09-17 10:19:54 PM

StoPPeRmobile: Lenny_da_Hog: StoPPeRmobile: Lenny_da_Hog: Rufus Lee King: Hack Patooey: He awoke to find three men and one woman, whom he described as having blond hair and wearing a floppy hat. They chanted "kill the pigs" and "acid's groovy" before attacking him, MacDonald said.

#include "smellslikebullshiat.h"

Yes, that's a bit much, ain't it?

Yeah, just when Charlie Manson was all the rage, too. How convenient.

So he stabbed himself in the lung?

You say this as if self-injury is an unbelievable prospect. Just a couple of weeks ago in Alaska there was a story about a guy who had a friend shoot him with a shotgun so he wouldn't have to go to active duty in the ME.

Lung? Sounds farking crazy.

So what kind of injury did the chickenshiat in Alaska sustain?


I'd remind any naysayers thinking MacDonald's injury could/could not have been self-inflicted about the Stuart case in Boston. The husband shot his wife to death, and then to establish his story that they'd been attacked by a random black mugger, shot himself. In the abdomen. And survived. And he wasn't even a doctor. So the fact MacDonald was stabbed in the lung provides no evidence either way, that he was stabbed by a mugger or stabbed himself.
 
2012-09-18 12:12:31 AM

Bathia_Mapes: mr intrepid: As I recall the case, the family lived on base. So for his story to be true, a group of three "hippies" got past security, went wandering around the base, in the middle of the night, commits 3 horrific murders, and wanders away, again, unobserved. Just seems a little farfetched to me.

It's been awhile since I've read "Fatal Vision", but I should dig out my copy and re-read it. However, I'm pretty certain you're correct about them living on base since I recall the MPs visiting the home regularly (it was still considered a crime scene) and doing routine things like defrosing the refrigerator freezer.


Back when MacDonald was in the Army, Ft. Bragg was an open post. There were restricted areas on base but most of the base was open to the public.
 
2012-09-18 03:57:14 AM
This case has haunted me for years. Read "Fatal Vision" 3 or 4 times. Saw the two part TV Movie, "Fatal Vision" a few times also. Also read a book that was out a few years ago from one of Jeffrey MacDonald's countless supporters which argued that MacDonald was innocent and he was railroaded. That book was biased and not that well written. Ordered the new book a couple of days ago and waiting for its delivery.

Overall, the physical evidence in this case is very damning: all the blood evidence (it was a one in a million scenario that Jeffrey, Collette, and two daughters all had different blood types), Jeffrey's pajama top on top of Collette with knife holes going through pajama top and Collette, none of Jeffrey's blood found in living room where alleged struggle took place between Jeff and alleged hippies, no evidence of a struggle with hippies and Jeffrey in living room. Yes and "acid is groovy, kill the pigs," sounds contrived and fake. But there were major gaffes and screw ups in Army police investigation and the Judge in his trial seemed biased to prosecution. Also Jeffrey's chief attorney at trial was ineffective and made a poor impression on jury. The Helena Stoeckly character -- the hippie with the white floppy hat, also complicated things. At times, she made statements that she was there at the MacDonald house and named other hippies that were there. Other times she appeared to be a pathetic long term drug abuser who was not a reliable witness. What turned the tide for me on believing MacDonald was probably guilty was the strong physical evidence combined with MacDonald's reported sharp temper, narcissistic personality and his actions after he was acquitted by the Army investigators: acting like a pompous ass on the Dick Cavitt show, bragging untruthfully to his father in law that he tracked down the "real killers" and killed them.

Well I look forward to reading the new book on this case to see if the new DNA and other criminal investigation technologies can shed any light on this haunting case. If it turns out that this guy is indeed found to be not guilty, it's a tragic story of a handsome surgeon locked up in for 25 years in prime of his life for a crime he did not do. But if he is indeed guilty as the Courts had found, he's a brutal killer of his family and a pathological liar who managed to dupe countless people that he was innocent.

The other thing I would always ponder on this case is assuming he killed his family, has he convinced himself over the years that it was the hippies that killed his family and not himself; or is he knowingly tryng to dupe us with his version of what happened on that rainy night in 1970 at Fort Bragg.
 
2012-09-18 06:14:09 AM

Bathia_Mapes: MBooda: 1970s? More like nine days ago, subby.

Indeed. And this is a followup to that thread.


Come on, Bathia, you ruined one of my funniest headlines of the year by changing the tag to followup.
 
2012-09-18 12:13:21 PM
Could it be something in between? That he knew the hippies and was involved in planning something with them?
 
2012-09-18 05:00:33 PM

beefoe: Speaker2Animals: Just today finished Morris' book -- and it seems MacDonald got railroaded.

Can you elaborate? From the description on wikipedia it seems a pretty open and shut case. Especially condemning is the fact that the wife and children were stabbed 10-30 times and beaten with a club and this guy just had superficial injuries.


For openers, the judge was biased. He had a son-in-law working for the prosecutors and never recused himself. He made sure an all-white jury was seated, even going so far as telling one young black women she was excused so she could go "help your daddy on his tobacco farm." Woman had even said she'd made arrangements to be available once she got the summons, but the judge tossed her out anyway. He also was prejudiced against MacDonald's lawyer, a Jew from New York, which may have been MacDonald's biggest mistake -- not hiring a local lawyer. He made few, if any, rulings favorable to the defense.

Physical evidence? There was a 24-inch strand of hair that prosecutors came from a doll in the house. Morris talked to a doll expert who told him there were no dolls that used that kind of hair in those days and that it had to have come from a wig.

McGinnis? He did a hatchet job on MacDonald because the wife's father said he was going to write a book and McGinnis feared that it would take away from the impact of his. Morris finds plenty of evidence that her parents were nothing like portrayed in the book or by Karl Malden and Eva Marie Saint, that they went after MacDonald when it became evident that he wanted to go on with his life.
 
2012-09-19 01:47:59 AM

cman: Bathia_Mapes: MBooda: 1970s? More like nine days ago, subby.

Indeed. And this is a followup to that thread.

Come on, Bathia, you ruined one of my funniest headlines of the year by changing the tag to followup.


Sorry, dude, but I did that to keep it from being reported as a repeat and removed. However, I can change the tag back if you want me to.
 
Displayed 55 of 55 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report