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(LA Times)   The Boy Scouts have been covering for child predators for almost 100 years. Bonus: "Upon Father Micarelli's recommendation, the parents were not notified"   (latimes.com) divider line 136
    More: Followup, child sexual abuse, recommendations, youth organizations, Boy Scouts of America  
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9723 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Sep 2012 at 1:29 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-17 10:13:12 AM
My scout troop was awesome and my scout masters never once gave me any reason to worry, even in retrospect. There was one week at a scout jamboree that we were in the showers and all of the younger kids in my troop showering in their swim trunks, of course. Another troop came in and their scout master starts barking orders to his troop, including that he demands that they all strip naked to shower, which of course he did as well. For their sake, I'll just hope it's a matter of perception.
 
2012-09-17 10:25:46 AM
Ahhh... the Boy Scouts, where being gay is not okay, but sodomizing a young boy is just dandy. I hated them for their official discrimination agains gays, and with this, I hate them even more now.
 
2012-09-17 10:25:54 AM

if_i_really_have_to: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Generation_D: In about 400 of those cases - 80% - there is no record of Scouting officials reporting the allegations to police. In more than 100 of the cases, officials actively sought to conceal the alleged abuse or allowed the suspects to hide it, The Times found

Yet again, the organization with the biggest public anti-gay stance has one of the most enabling policies privately.

It has really become a marker -- the more a person or organization protests, the more they are in the closet. It should be widely known, because there's more organizations out there (Second Mile anyone?) that have yet to be independently audited for child rape or condoning it/covering it up.

Whoa there Tex! Sounds to me like both of you are equating being gay with being pedo. Not necessarily the same, not by a long shot. From the outrage and the choice of words, you both sound like libs, and saying gay = pedo is definitely NOT a lib (nor a conservative) stance.

That's how the comments read to me too.

I can only hope their actual intention was that self-hating closeted religious gays who join gay-hating religious organisations end acting out against any handy victim. So correlations != causation but this is what happens when you tell people they are evil and homosexuality is a choice? I guess.

If there is in fact any evidence that the molesters are gay, that is. I imagine most of them were Pillars of the Community (wife and kids included).



So... you jump directly from one set of fallacies directly into another?
 
2012-09-17 10:33:36 AM

Spindle: My scout troop was awesome and my scout masters never once gave me any reason to worry, even in retrospect. There was one week at a scout jamboree that we were in the showers and all of the younger kids in my troop showering in their swim trunks, of course. Another troop came in and their scout master starts barking orders to his troop, including that he demands that they all strip naked to shower, which of course he did as well. For their sake, I'll just hope it's a matter of perception.


Uhhh....that's not right (at least not for recent Scout events I've been to). At every campout I've been to, there have been either private shower stalls, or completely separate shower times for adults vs Scouts. At Seabase, it was a completely different facility. It's reasonable for Scout leaders to remind Scouts about proper hygiene (in appropriate language, of course), but there shouldn't be any communal showers with both adults and Scouts. That defeats the whole Youth Protection program goal of keeping kids safe from abuse.

Whatever it was in the past, today, the rules are pretty clear.

■ One-on-one contact between adults and Scouts is prohibited. In situations that require personal conferences, such as a Scoutmaster's conference, the meeting is to be conducted in view of other adults and youths.

■ Separate accommodations for adults and Scouts are required. When camping, no youth is permitted to sleep in the tent of an adult other than his or her own parent or guardian. Councils are strongly encouraged to have separate shower and latrine facilities for females. When separate facilities are not available, separate times for male and female use should be scheduled and posted for showers. Likewise, youth and adults must shower at different times.

■ Privacy of youth is respected. Adult leaders must respect the privacy of youth members in situations such as changing clothes and taking showers at camp, intruding only to the extent that health and safety require. Adults must protect their own privacy in similar situations.



Mandatory reporting, two deep leadership, etc. When abuse is suspected, get the kid safe first, notify the authorities.....THEN let the Scouting org know about it. That's the way it's supposed to work.....

Mandatory Report of Child Abuse

All persons involved in Scouting shall report to local authorities any good-faith suspicion or belief that any child is or has been physically or sexually abused, physically or emotionally neglected, exposed to any form of violence or threat, exposed to any form of sexual exploitation, including the possession, manufacture, or distribution of child pornography, online solicitation, enticement, or showing of obscene material. You may not abdicate this reporting responsibility to any other person.

Steps to Reporting Child Abuse
1.Ensure the child is in a safe environment.
2.In cases of child abuse or medical emergencies, call 911 immediately. In addition, if the suspected abuse is in the Scout's home or family, you are required to contact the local child abuse hotline.
3.Notify the Scout executive or his/her designee.
 
2012-09-17 10:41:03 AM

Gyrfalcon: Gunther: WTF Indeed: How this thread will go:

Let me handle that for you: WTF Indeed will preemptively attack anyone who dares to criticize an organisation which has a documented history of covering up for child molesters. He will do so by the use of straw-man arguments, opening himself to ridicule and contempt from his fellow farkers.

FTA:
In the majority of cases, the Scouts learned of alleged abuse after it had been reported to authorities. But in more than 500 instances, the Scouts learned about it from boys, parents, staff members or anonymous tips.

In about 400 of those cases - 80% - there is no record of Scouting officials reporting the allegations to police. In more than 100 of the cases, officials actively sought to conceal the alleged abuse or allowed the suspects to hide it, The Times found.

This is the "fine organization" you are passionately defending.

OK, let's be fair to everyone.

According to the Times article, there were 1600 cases reported over a 20 year period, from 1970-1991. About 80 cases per year. In the MAJORITY of those cases, i.e. 1600 - 500 = 900, the children and/or their parents reported the attack to the cops FIRST and NOT the Boy Scouts. Hence, there could be no cover-up in 900 of the cases, because the Scouts learned of it only after the report was filed.

Of the remaining cases, 400 have no record of the Scouts contacting the cops. By simple math, that means that in 100 cases, 500 - 400 = 100, therefore, the Scouts DID in fact contact the cops.


I believe you're reading that wrong... The 100 cases where the Scouts were actively concealing the abuse are in addition to the 400 where they did nothing, rather than a subset of them. There's no evidence that the Scouts actually did contact the cops in any cases.
 
2012-09-17 11:25:35 AM
So... let me get this straight... Gay guys aren't allowed in the Scouts for not being able to teach the correct values, but there's been an active campaign to cover up child molestation in the organization?

You guys are making it very, very hard to appreciate my Eagle Scout award and my time in the BSA.
 
2012-09-17 11:27:27 AM

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Generation_D: In about 400 of those cases - 80% - there is no record of Scouting officials reporting the allegations to police. In more than 100 of the cases, officials actively sought to conceal the alleged abuse or allowed the suspects to hide it, The Times found

Yet again, the organization with the biggest public anti-gay stance has one of the most enabling policies privately.

It has really become a marker -- the more a person or organization protests, the more they are in the closet. It should be widely known, because there's more organizations out there (Second Mile anyone?) that have yet to be independently audited for child rape or condoning it/covering it up.

Whoa there Tex! Sounds to me like both of you are equating being gay with being pedo. Not necessarily the same, not by a long shot. From the outrage and the choice of words, you both sound like libs, and saying gay = pedo is definitely NOT a lib (nor a conservative) stance.


Exactly... a gay man can look at a 12 year old boy and say "Damn, I'm gonna fark him when he turns 18..."
 
2012-09-17 11:29:04 AM

Marine1: So... let me get this straight... Gay guys aren't allowed in the Scouts for not being able to teach the correct values, but there's been an active campaign to cover up child molestation in the organization?

You guys are making it very, very hard to appreciate my Eagle Scout award and my time in the BSA.


But I am sure they appreciate their time in you...
 
2012-09-17 11:38:53 AM
Smells like bullshiat

Brother is an Eagle Scout. I'm Life. Both went on to Explorers. Such things never occurred around us. Maybe in the cities where Satan lives.

Memorable quote from Scoutmaster when one of the lads called out from the back of the bus we were using to get to a Canadian three week canoe trip "Hey, you care if I smoke?"

Reply - "Hell, son. I don't care if you burn."

(back in the day before men and boys became biatchified ad we weren't taught to be afraid of shiat)
 
2012-09-17 11:42:39 AM
i1170.photobucket.com

Now the first activity for this evening will be...naked pictures.
 
2012-09-17 11:55:20 AM

stonicus: Marine1: So... let me get this straight... Gay guys aren't allowed in the Scouts for not being able to teach the correct values, but there's been an active campaign to cover up child molestation in the organization?

You guys are making it very, very hard to appreciate my Eagle Scout award and my time in the BSA.

But I am sure they appreciate their time in you...


I uh... never had problems there... not quite sure what you're getting at.
 
2012-09-17 11:56:51 AM

Ed Grubermann: President Merkin Muffley: Eagle Scout. Never molested or even approached and didn't know anyone who was.

Teachers fark students all the time. Why no, OMG ALL TEACHERS ARE PEDOS?

When teachers unions and (non-parochial) schools systematically protect the child molesters and act to suppress accusers your butthurt whinging might have a point. I'm really sorry you're too God damned stupid to understand that.


8/10. Bravo.
 
2012-09-17 11:58:29 AM

Transubstantive: President Merkin Muffley: 12349876: President Merkin Muffley: Eagle Scout. Never molested or even approached and didn't know anyone who was.

Teachers fark students all the time. Why no, OMG ALL TEACHERS ARE PEDOS?

The cover up. You're always going to run into bad apples through life, but only the truly deranged cover up for them.

So by that logic, all cops are deranged?

Dude, face it - your beloved organization had a system in place, lawyers and everything, to protect its image above protecting its members from sexual predators. THAT IS REALLY FARKED UP.


That is pretty farked up indeed. I actually walked away from the organization years ago and haven't been in touch at all, so it's hardly beloved.

But if you're looking for a fight. OMG FARK YOU.

Happy?
 
2012-09-17 12:23:49 PM

Marine1: stonicus: Marine1: So... let me get this straight... Gay guys aren't allowed in the Scouts for not being able to teach the correct values, but there's been an active campaign to cover up child molestation in the organization?

You guys are making it very, very hard to appreciate my Eagle Scout award and my time in the BSA.

But I am sure they appreciate their time in you...

I uh... never had problems there... not quite sure what you're getting at.


Just being Farky, play on words, pun... being silly... =)
 
2012-09-17 01:16:29 PM
While the BSA was in the Supreme Court of the United States swearing they'd always been an explicitly anti-gay religious organization (which is why they're entitled to be exempt from state antidiscrimination statutes, y'know, like the KKK), the BSA's Director of National Programs Douglas Sovereign Smith, Jr. -- married father of two, active churchgoer, former head of BSA's anti-molestation task force -- was trafficking child pornography.

Like the Catholic Church, the BSA pretends gays are the child molesters and if they kick them out, problem solved!

HINT: "pedophile" is no more a sexual orientation than "rapist."
 
2012-09-17 02:09:41 PM

namegoeshere: Mock26: Transubstantive: Dude, face it - your beloved organization had a system in place, lawyers and everything, to protect its image above protecting its members from sexual predators. THAT IS REALLY FARKED UP.

Yes, that is really farked up. But it still does not detract from the fact that the Boy Scouts have had a huge and positive influence on millions of scouts and scout leaders.

Jerry Sandusky and his charity helped so many fatherless young boys...


Actually, The Second Mile did help a lot of children. The fact that Jerry was a sick, perverted monster does not suddenly negate all of the good that was done by his charity to help kids.
 
2012-09-17 02:54:08 PM

tekmo: While the BSA was in the Supreme Court of the United States swearing they'd always been an explicitly anti-gay religious organization (which is why they're entitled to be exempt from state antidiscrimination statutes, y'know, like the KKK), the BSA's Director of National Programs Douglas Sovereign Smith, Jr. -- married father of two, active churchgoer, former head of BSA's anti-molestation task force -- was trafficking child pornography.

Like the Catholic Church, the BSA pretends gays are the child molesters and if they kick them out, problem solved!

HINT: "pedophile" is no more a sexual orientation than "rapist."


Now maybe I'm off the wall on this point, but I've got a theory that out-of-the-closet gay men would be far LESS likely to let this shiat go. It's an issue that the gay community has discussed and not swept under the rug. I don't expect the same kind of blue-screen response or constant awkward euphemisms for what happened.

It resembles their sexuality in superficial ways, but ALL TOTALLY WRONG. I'd expect a more decisive, aggressive response to this kind of shiat. Also I kinda expect that starts with picking up on "warning signs" of something inappropriate far sooner than their hetero counterparts who wouldn't be "sure what they saw" if they witness a balls-deep scene, much less simple affection that isn't simple affection. If that sort of thing doesn't exist in your world, seeing blatantly problematic man/boy cuddling or gazes would be categorized as normal adult affections no matter what. My theory is a gay man would be likely to go "what the hell was that look? What was with that grin?? His eyes followed that kid... I KNOW that look. Did nobody else see that?"

How should I know? Hey, just a theory.
 
2012-09-17 03:20:01 PM

Mock26: namegoeshere: Mock26: Transubstantive: Dude, face it - your beloved organization had a system in place, lawyers and everything, to protect its image above protecting its members from sexual predators. THAT IS REALLY FARKED UP.

Yes, that is really farked up. But it still does not detract from the fact that the Boy Scouts have had a huge and positive influence on millions of scouts and scout leaders.

Jerry Sandusky and his charity helped so many fatherless young boys...

Actually, The Second Mile did help a lot of children. The fact that Jerry was a sick, perverted monster does not suddenly negate all of the good that was done by his charity to help kids.


So the coverup of Sandusky's perversion is somehow justified because some children were helped? Would it not have been better that he had been stopped and jailed before he had a chance to start that charity and help those children, or are his victims to be considered sacrificial lambs for the good of the children who were helped?

I'll answer that: YES, the rape of those boys was far too big a price to pay so that others may be helped by that charity. The rape of ONE child would have been far too big a price to pay. It would have been a much better thing if The Second Mile had never existed, whether it helped some boys or not.
 
2012-09-17 03:31:34 PM
Oznog:I've got a theory that out-of-the-closet gay men would be far LESS likely to let this shiat go.

There was a 20-year study of (IIRC) 87 lesbian-headed families and one rather remarkable fact emerged that not one child had been subjected to abuse. That is to say, it's not merely that none of the children had been abused by their lesbian parents, but none of the children had been abused by anyone.

That is nothing short of astonishing. I doubt you'd find a similar outcome in 87 randomly selected families of any other demographic.

My point is, if you really want children to be safe, evidently you should entrust them to lesbians.
 
2012-09-17 04:00:26 PM

bunner: I don't want to sound all accusatory, but when you have an organization that promotes very young boys spending time in remote areas with grown men, it's going to attract more than a few very disingenuous grown men. Yanno?


That's usually what happens. Pedos will seek out jobs and such where they will be around children. That's why a lot of them are scoutmasters, coaches, clergy, etc.
 
2012-09-17 04:16:52 PM
Scouting's slogan:

"We don't want you if you're gay,
But child molesters are A-okay!"
 
2012-09-17 04:18:58 PM
I'm sorry, but I'm unable to think of anything right now besides Alec Baldwin as the Scoutmaster and Adam Sandler as Canteen Boy.
 
2012-09-17 04:24:32 PM

Smeggy Smurf: zez: I'm an eagle scout and my scoutmaster and assistant would probably be in jail for the stuff they put is through.

The one leader was an adventurer with his own routes up the tetons and other big climbs so he would have us 12 year olds do survivalist type campouts and other crazy stuff.

/best time of my life
//still doesn't count it as camping if you haven't walked at least 10 miles

In the late 80's and early 90's I was in a military troop at the USCGAS Kodiak. We have everything from active duty SEALS (small detachment from Team 1) to retired Green Berets to guys that were Rangers or Marine Scout Snipers before re-entering the service with the Coast Guard. The stuff we did would make most other troops weep. Go camping when the windchill was -40? Sounds like fun! Canoe 50+ miles, hike 20 and then pitch camp without tents? OK but first we have to hop a space-A flight to the mainland in the back of a C-130. Go to the end of the road and then go another 10 miles then go down a 150 foot cliff? What do you mean we have to wait will the weekend? Nearly every single one of our camping trips was in survival situation mode.

There were no pedos around us at any time. If anybody had tried they wouldn't have come back from the next camping trip. Plenty of people vanish up there. If I remember right there are a few Fark Coasties that have been stationed up there. You know what I mean when I say when I talk about the back country out behind Barometer or out by the Olds River. The beaches out along Fossil Beach before the launch site was built behind the bluffs. Good times.


Er, note to self: do not accept any invitations to go camping with Smeggy Smurf.
 
2012-09-17 05:11:19 PM
Oh look, it's this thread again.
 
2012-09-17 05:21:14 PM

President Merkin Muffley: Teachers fark students all the time. Why no, OMG ALL TEACHERS ARE PEDOS?


That thread starts on Wednesdays.
 
2012-09-17 05:27:07 PM
Lord Baden Powell invented the Scouts in the first place so he could have some sweet man-boy action. Is it a surprise they been covering it up for so long?
 
2012-09-17 11:01:50 PM

Oznog: Now maybe I'm off the wall on this point, but I've got a theory that out-of-the-closet gay men would be far LESS likely to let this shiat go. It's an issue that the gay community has discussed and not swept under the rug.


All the more reason to keep the outs out of Scouts. They're only gonna ruin things for the closet cases who Aren't Really Gay.
 
2012-09-18 12:45:19 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope: Any rganization, preacher, or individual who talks about being gay alot, especially if they talk about how awful it is and take a strong anti-gay stance, is almost certainly gay or is harboring a big, gay secret. Bank on it.


So, the current Southern Baptist and Mormon dominant influence in BSA's national council implies....

Marine1: So... let me get this straight... Gay guys aren't allowed in the Scouts for not being able to teach the correct values, but there's been an active campaign to cover up child molestation in the organization?

You guys are making it very, very hard to appreciate my Eagle Scout award and my time in the BSA.


You might find it illuminating to look into the anthropology of "guilt" versus "shame" cultures. Though Joe Henrich's research on "Dominance" vs. "Prestige" might be more solid, and related.
 
2012-09-18 01:16:31 AM

namegoeshere: Mock26: namegoeshere: Mock26: Transubstantive: Dude, face it - your beloved organization had a system in place, lawyers and everything, to protect its image above protecting its members from sexual predators. THAT IS REALLY FARKED UP.

Yes, that is really farked up. But it still does not detract from the fact that the Boy Scouts have had a huge and positive influence on millions of scouts and scout leaders.

Jerry Sandusky and his charity helped so many fatherless young boys...

Actually, The Second Mile did help a lot of children. The fact that Jerry was a sick, perverted monster does not suddenly negate all of the good that was done by his charity to help kids.

So the coverup of Sandusky's perversion is somehow justified because some children were helped? Would it not have been better that he had been stopped and jailed before he had a chance to start that charity and help those children, or are his victims to be considered sacrificial lambs for the good of the children who were helped?

I'll answer that: YES, the rape of those boys was far too big a price to pay so that others may be helped by that charity. The rape of ONE child would have been far too big a price to pay. It would have been a much better thing if The Second Mile had never existed, whether it helped some boys or not.


I never said anything about any cover up justifying any criminal activities. I was just pointing that the good that an organization does is not negated if some member(s) of said organization end up doing something horrific such as molesting children. Now, in the case of The Second Mile, I do not know if Sandusky specifically created that organization just so he could get his grubby little hands on those kids or if that happened later. If he created it just to molest kids then I agree with you, but from what I understand he started the charity before he started molesting kids. As for the Boy Scouts, it was definitely not created so perverts could molest kids, and hundreds of thousands if not millions of kids joined the Scouts, got something positive about it, and were never molested or harmed in any way by their Scout Masters. Does that suddenly vanish because some of the "silver tabs" covered things up to protect their image? I think not.
 
2012-09-18 01:42:12 AM

Spindle: My scout troop was awesome and my scout masters never once gave me any reason to worry, even in retrospect. There was one week at a scout jamboree that we were in the showers and all of the younger kids in my troop showering in their swim trunks, of course. Another troop came in and their scout master starts barking orders to his troop, including that he demands that they all strip naked to shower, which of course he did as well. For their sake, I'll just hope it's a matter of perception.


That would be a cause for concern. I was on staff for the National Jamboree in 1993 and they drilled it into our heads that there was to be no mingling of adults and kids while showering. They even had separate times set aside for adults and youths. I remember one Scoutmaster brought tried to bring his troop to shower when it was adult time because his kids had been playing in the mud after it had rained and I politely told him it was not allowed. When he tried to insist I less than politely showed him the sign listing the different times and reminded him as to why the kids were not allowed to shower at that time. He was one pissed off Scoutmaster, and quite frankly I did not give a shiat about how pissed off he was.
 
2012-09-18 04:15:23 AM

Ed Grubermann: UseLessHuman: WHY GOD WHY? WHY DO ALL THESE SICK MANIPULATIVE PEOPLE CHOOSE TO JOIN RELIGIOUS INSTITUTIONS? IS THERE A CONNECTION LORD? GIVE ME A SIGN!

derp.

WHY GOD WHY? WHY DO THESE GROUPS COVER UP THE MOLESTATIONS? WHY ARE THEY MORE CONCERNED WITH THEIR IMAGE THAN THE WELFARE OF THE CHILDREN IN THEIR CHARGE?

Dipshiat.


I can answer that, because when you take away the image, they have nothing left.
 
2012-09-18 10:12:17 AM

Mock26: I never said anything about any cover up justifying any criminal activities. I was just pointing that the good that an organization does is not negated if some member(s) of said organization end up doing something horrific such as molesting children


It was never about a couple of bad apples in an otherwise good bunch. If you think so, you have missed the point entirely. It is about the long term, continuing, ongoing coverup and enabling of the molestation of children, for the good of the organization.

It's the plotline for countless evil utopia stories: a community where all prosper, where all get along, where life is truly good. Only there's a price. Every once in a while someone must pay so that others may live in peace and prosperity. Maybe they're picked by lottery and stoned to death, or maybe they're drawn in by some mysterious force and killed in a downpour of carnivorous amphibians. Whatever. The theme in all such stories is that the few must suffer as sacrifice so that the many may prosper. And in the end you have a society that's beautiful on top and rotten underneath.

That's the case with The Second Mile, The Catholic Church, and yes, the BSA. In all of these organizations, had there been a few who molested children but were then handed over to police and dealt with openly, there would be no criticism of the organization itself, beyond the need to tighten their screening procedures.

But that's not what happened. Long term, ongoing abuse of children was covered up, not reported to law enforcement, and withheld intentionally from the families of the molested children. For the good of the organization. So that it could continue with its reputation untarnished. The children became the sacrificial lambs, the few who suffered so that the many, the organization, could continue to prosper.

Which, just as in the case of the fictional evil utopia, makes the BSA shiny and good on the surface, and rotten underneath. 

And just as in all such cautionary tales, this sacrifice is too big a price to pay for any good that may be done.
 
2012-09-18 11:37:01 AM
mama2tnt Smartest
Funniest
2012-09-17 04:16:52 PM


Scouting's slogan:

"We don't want you if you're gay,
But child molesters are A-okay!"




All the molesters were gay.
 
2012-09-18 08:17:14 PM

zez: I'm an eagle scout and my scoutmaster and assistant would probably be in jail for the stuff they put is through.

The one leader was an adventurer with his own routes up the tetons and other big climbs so he would have us 12 year olds do survivalist type campouts and other crazy stuff.

/best time of my life
//still doesn't count it as camping if you haven't walked at least 10 miles


What a shame the organization has been hijacked by the christian bigot movement... more kids could have such experiences & not just the white christian ones.

And less of them would get raped.
 
2012-09-19 10:39:42 AM

namegoeshere: It's the plotline for countless evil utopia stories: a community where all prosper, where all get along, where life is truly good. Only there's a price. Every once in a while someone must pay so that others may live in peace and prosperity. Maybe they're picked by lottery and stoned to death, or maybe they're drawn in by some mysterious force and killed in a downpour of carnivorous amphibians. Whatever. The theme in all such stories is that the few must suffer as sacrifice so that the many may prosper. And in the end you have a society that's beautiful on top and rotten underneath.


And you know what? Before the veneration of the rights of the individual, lots of people were happy to pay the price. Even right here in the land of the free. Because back in old country, wherever it was, lots and lots of people had to pay the price. Those societies were rotten from bottom to top. So what we had was progress.

And you know what else? There are people to this very day who think individuals aren't worth shiat compared to that ideal of society we used to believe in. Rotten as it was, and often still is, they want some of that rot back. Because they think it's better for the majority.
 
2012-09-20 02:05:09 AM

namegoeshere: Mock26: I never said anything about any cover up justifying any criminal activities. I was just pointing that the good that an organization does is not negated if some member(s) of said organization end up doing something horrific such as molesting children

It was never about a couple of bad apples in an otherwise good bunch. If you think so, you have missed the point entirely. It is about the long term, continuing, ongoing coverup and enabling of the molestation of children, for the good of the organization.

It's the plotline for countless evil utopia stories: a community where all prosper, where all get along, where life is truly good. Only there's a price. Every once in a while someone must pay so that others may live in peace and prosperity. Maybe they're picked by lottery and stoned to death, or maybe they're drawn in by some mysterious force and killed in a downpour of carnivorous amphibians. Whatever. The theme in all such stories is that the few must suffer as sacrifice so that the many may prosper. And in the end you have a society that's beautiful on top and rotten underneath.

That's the case with The Second Mile, The Catholic Church, and yes, the BSA. In all of these organizations, had there been a few who molested children but were then handed over to police and dealt with openly, there would be no criticism of the organization itself, beyond the need to tighten their screening procedures.

But that's not what happened. Long term, ongoing abuse of children was covered up, not reported to law enforcement, and withheld intentionally from the families of the molested children. For the good of the organization. So that it could continue with its reputation untarnished. The children became the sacrificial lambs, the few who suffered so that the many, the organization, could continue to prosper.

Which, just as in the case of the fictional evil utopia, makes the BSA shiny and good on the surface, and rotten underneath.

And just as in all such cautionary tales, this sacrifice is too big a price to pay for any good that may be done.


I did not miss the point. But, the the " long term, continuing, ongoing coverup and enabling of the molestation of children, for the good of the organization" was not done by the entire organization. It was done by a few rotten apples. The vast majority of the organization had no knowledge of the coverup that was going on! So, yeah, it is just a few rotten apples.

As for it being a plotline for countless utopia stories, well, bwahahahaahahahahahahahaha! Sorry, but that is just ridiculous. Sure, it may be similar to the plotline for countless uptopia stories, but that does not mean that it really is. Again, this is not about anyone saying, "Well, is is OK that 5,000 kids were molested because 994,000 went on to be upstanding citizens because of their time in the scouts." It is about a few rotten apples doing something highly unethical/horrible/evil/disgusting for what they assumed was for the betterment of the group. But, it was not. They did it on their own and without the support of those who made up the rank and file of the organization. The coverup by a few rotten apples has nothing to do with the vast majority of those in the organization. The coverup does not suddenly mean that all the good that has been done by the rank and file is suddenly somehow bad. Again, the vast majority of the scouts and scoutmasters knew nothing of what was going on with the cover ups. The reason being is that most troops really have no connection with the higher ups. Most troops are "isolated" from the other troops, only really getting together for camporees and similar events (like the klondike derby). I was a Scoutmaster for 5 years and I almost never dealt with anyone from the Council Headquarters. I dealt with them more as a camp staff member than I did as a Scoutmaster. And the only time I ever dealt with anyone from National Headquarters was at the Jamboree that is held every three years. So crucifying the entire organization is just stupid. It is like cutting off your entire leg because your toe has gangrene.
 
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