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(Vanity Fair)   Reporter spends 6 months embedded with Barack Obama: "All the people who had been demanding intervention [in Libya] went nuts after we intervened and said it was outrageous. That's because the controversy machine is bigger than the reality machine"   (vanityfair.com) divider line 72
    More: Interesting, obama, Captain Tyler Stark, Libya, Under Armour, Secretary of Education Arne Duncan, Nobel Peace Prize, F-15, gym bag  
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5263 clicks; posted to Politics » on 16 Sep 2012 at 5:44 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-09-16 05:49:26 PM
5 votes:
Politics, unfortunately, is about being contrarian, at least now. It Has been ridiculous under Obama, how insane republicans have gone just disagreeing about anything and everything, Obamacare being the biggest example I can think of, you know, considering they came up with it.
2012-09-16 05:16:03 PM
5 votes:

make me some tea: gopher321: Benevolent Misanthrope: Welcome to the "no shiat" files. Jesus - it's like people have no idea how politics works.

This is why I'm seriously considering moving to Canada. They may have the same lack of leaders the US does, but at least their leaders' little picayune arguments don't affect the entire farking world.

I work with an ex-pat Yank. Helluva nice guy, real smart, cute wife. Bit of a conspiracy freak. Though I have to admit some of the things he's told me about what your government is up to/what might be up to scare the shiat out of me.

After reading this entire piece, much like after reading "What Happened" about the Bush admin, I found that the man and how he operates are somewhat different than he's largely portrayed, even by sympathetic press.

I found the decisionmaking process Obama employs particularly interesting, and reassuring. It'd be neat to see how that compares to other Administrations.


I haven't read the piece, but I listened to an interview with the guy on Leonard Lopate and I liked how he talked about how Obama views everything with a 52-48% chance of success (or vice-versa). In other words that there are multiple contingencies and things can easily go a different way. What a complex mind and what a change from Dubya.
2012-09-17 12:56:48 AM
4 votes:
Newsflash: Obama's a good man who has the best interests of our country at heart. And the intelligence to make the right decisions.
We're lucky to have him as President.
2012-09-16 10:07:54 PM
3 votes:

Gulper Eel: Interesting in that the piece does not mention that in exchange for access, Lewis gave the White House approval rights over any quotes used in TFA.


...That's incredibly common practice for an embedded reporter. Seriously, the dude had close access for six months, there's a good chance at some point he's gonna overhear something damaging to national security or something. The WH would be crazy to give a journalist that level of access and NOT put any kind of conditions on it - as far as it goes, approval rights over any quotes used is a pretty minor condition.

You'd have to be farking crazy to use that as a reason to dismiss the entire article as "propaganda".

/yes, I'm calling Greenwald farking crazy.
//because he is.
2012-09-16 04:14:48 PM
3 votes:
This piece did an amazing job at showing Obama's love for the US and how seriously he takes his role as President.
2012-09-16 04:10:52 PM
3 votes:

gopher321: Benevolent Misanthrope: Welcome to the "no shiat" files. Jesus - it's like people have no idea how politics works.

This is why I'm seriously considering moving to Canada. They may have the same lack of leaders the US does, but at least their leaders' little picayune arguments don't affect the entire farking world.

I work with an ex-pat Yank. Helluva nice guy, real smart, cute wife. Bit of a conspiracy freak. Though I have to admit some of the things he's told me about what your government is up to/what might be up to scare the shiat out of me.


After reading this entire piece, much like after reading "What Happened" about the Bush admin, I found that the man and how he operates are somewhat different than he's largely portrayed, even by sympathetic press.

I found the decisionmaking process Obama employs particularly interesting, and reassuring. It'd be neat to see how that compares to other Administrations.
2012-09-17 08:21:54 AM
2 votes:

Gulper Eel: Gunther: Well no, but it is a common and understandable practice for reporters who are given a lot of access. It doesn't make him a "propagandist".

Indeed it does, as it does the "reporters" who do similar favors for the Romney campaign.


No, it doesn't. "quote approval" doesn't mean that your subject gets to write your damn piece, it doesn't even mean you can't run a piece without approval. You can still say "The opinion I formed of the president was that he was a total ass. I pray he will be impeached for his many crimes against this nation", you just can't use quotes without approval. I had a look for what was left out, and came up with this:

"What the White House asked to leave off the record, Mr. Lewis added, was usually of little relevance to his article anyway -- like a discussion between Mr. Obama and his political strategists about their electoral strategy in Florida.
Mr. Lewis said there was one particularly moving exchange with the president that he wished he could have described in greater detail. But the White House nixed the idea, perhaps wary of having the commander in chief described as in tears.

Mr. Lewis declined to delve into too much detail because he said he did not want to violate the ground rules he agreed to, but he did offer that the president explained to him how the job exacts a heavy emotional toll. The president told Mr. Lewis how one evening after a particularly trying day, he sat down to watch a movie and surprised himself by suddenly tearing up."


Seriously, quit acting like this is the death of journalism.
2012-09-17 07:21:41 AM
2 votes:
People keep saying "pro Obama piece", etc. etc.

When you consider what percentage of the media's coverage(y'know, that liberal media who nonetheless keep presenting Obama in a mostly negative manner to stay "unbiased") is based on flat out fiction, then a piece that actually gives us an insight to what he's really like, how things actually are, is automatically going to be "pro Obama" because anything involving the reality of the man is going to be positive as it debunks the mostly negative perception being built.

I agree that there should have been a disclaimer on the quote agreement as well.

It's simply depressing that one of the best presidents this country has elected in over a decade is going to be "remembered"(keep in mind, these people have already forgotten Bush, and while they were likely alive during Reagan's administration, have absolutely no reliable recollection of his actual term as President) as history's greatest monster due to the sheer volume of the rhetoric.

No, he's not perfect, but most of the criticisms I'd have are comparatively mild ones, and many of the ones people do have generally involve either not comprehending how our government actually works or simple racism.
2012-09-16 10:23:02 PM
2 votes:

Gunther: /yes, I'm calling Greenwald farking crazy.
//because he is.


Glenn Greenwald is invaluable for pointing out civil liberties violations. It's a shame that he only has one gear and that gear is breathless hyperbole.
2012-09-16 09:41:33 PM
2 votes:
Per Nate Silver, the generic battle polls are shifting.

si0.twimg.comNate Silver@fivethirtyeight

Four generic ballot polls released this week: Dems +2 (Rasmussen), Dems +4 (YouGov), Dems +6 (Ipsos), Dems +6 (PPP)
12 Sep 12
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2012-09-16 09:12:09 PM
2 votes:

Contents Under Pressure: Who cares if it's a puff piece? It's an interesting read. It's nice to see what the guy does all day.


This.

I've read similar puff pieces on President's whom I opposed, and found them interesting not for what was said, but what was told -- the small, mundane details of day-to-day life as POTUS.
2012-09-16 08:32:30 PM
2 votes:

make me some tea: choosing not to close Guantanomo


When did Obama chose to not close Guantanomo? Or does Congress magically not exist anymore?
2012-09-16 08:06:25 PM
2 votes:

Gulper Eel: Interesting piece.

Interesting in that the piece does not mention that in exchange for access, Lewis gave the White House approval rights over any quotes used in TFA.

Kudos to the New York Times for actually calling bullshiat.

Now that it's become clear that many journalists covering politics and government agree to quotation-approval as a condition of access, it's tough not to see the pageant of democracy as just that: a carefully constructed performance meant to showcase the participants in the best light.

At the very least the quote-approval needs to be disclosed. In this article, it wasn't.

But that's okay because it makes your guy look good.

Even the reliably left-wing Glenn Greenwald is calling it a puff piece, and then goes about thorougly ripping to shreds all the excuses given for quote approval.

Then he wraps with this, and I'll boldface it so you can read it through koolaid-colored glasses:

No readers are being "informed" by the publication of a profile in which the subject of the profile has the power to decide what does and does not get printed. They're being propagandized.


Saying what is "on the record" versus "off the record" is nothing new in journalism. A quote approval is not equivalent to them approving what is printed. I agree as a minimum this disclaimer should be right in the article itself. Perhaps, the author didn't mention it because no quotes ended up being suppressed in the end.

During an election cycle and based on the GOP willing to may hay out of practically nothing, it isn't surprising that the administration is trying not to feed ammunition to the Romney campaign.

Thanks for the link.
2012-09-16 08:03:37 PM
2 votes:

Gulper Eel: Interesting piece.

Interesting in that the piece does not mention that in exchange for access, Lewis gave the White House approval rights over any quotes used in TFA.

Kudos to the New York Times for actually calling bullshiat.

Now that it's become clear that many journalists covering politics and government agree to quotation-approval as a condition of access, it's tough not to see the pageant of democracy as just that: a carefully constructed performance meant to showcase the participants in the best light.

At the very least the quote-approval needs to be disclosed. In this article, it wasn't.

But that's okay because it makes your guy look good.

Even the reliably left-wing Glenn Greenwald is calling it a puff piece, and then goes about thorougly ripping to shreds all the excuses given for quote approval.

Then he wraps with this, and I'll boldface it so you can read it through koolaid-colored glasses:

No readers are being "informed" by the publication of a profile in which the subject of the profile has the power to decide what does and does not get printed. They're being propagandized.


The author does say that very, very little was left out or changed, but it would be helpful to know what that means, like what rough percentage of it? 1%? 5%? 10%? Impossible to determine.

Greenwald has been ragging on Obama a lot lately.
2012-09-16 07:40:35 PM
2 votes:

simplicimus: tenpoundsofcheese: fta: "He prefers the F.B.I.'s because it is a bit smaller than a regulation court, which reduces also the advantages of youth"

what a surprise.

Really, Basketball ? That's the best you come up?


You go to war with the derp you have, not the derp you wish you had.
2012-09-16 07:17:44 PM
2 votes:
Great article...shows the true character of our president. It's nice to have an adult in charge.
2012-09-16 06:11:53 PM
2 votes:
Michael Lewis is a great writer.
M Lewis referenced there is an area on Air Force One for the Presidents Coffin.

President Obama (all Presidents) coffin is near the surgical area on the plane.
The President travels with his coffin.

Should be a great book
2012-09-16 06:04:50 PM
2 votes:

tenpoundsofcheese: fta: "He prefers the F.B.I.'s because it is a bit smaller than a regulation court, which reduces also the advantages of youth"

what a surprise.


Really, Basketball ? That's the best you come up?
2012-09-16 06:04:41 PM
2 votes:
First impressions while reading: The guys Obama plays basketball with don't treat him differently just because he's the President. I imagine guys playing cribbage with Romney losing on purpose.
2012-09-16 05:57:40 PM
2 votes:
There's a difference between presenting yourself and your ideas in the most positive light (and, conversely, putting your political opponent and their ideas in a negative light) and outright lying and just making reality up as you go along.

The GOP crossed that line a long time and just kept going.

Their narrative is now become so laughably self contradictory and devoid of any relationship to reality it's a wonder any of their paid shills can still mouth the words without breaking up.

"They weren't against it until they found out Obama was for it" pretty much sums them up.

Like Mitt famously (or infamously depending on how one views these things) saying GM should go bankrupt then after the fact trying to claim credit these mental midgets who originally gave Obama crap for not doing enough in Libya and then crying that he did too much when he did act have absolutely no credibility.

ZEE-RO.

/You read that last part in Bubba's voice, didn't you?
2012-09-16 05:50:12 PM
2 votes:
Awesome article. Too bad subby put it in the one place where no one will ever read it: The Politics Tab.
2012-09-16 03:54:57 PM
2 votes:
Welcome to January, 2009.
2012-09-17 01:04:48 PM
1 votes:

simplicimus: Well yeah, cause everybody gets their own Basketball.


I just had a really amusing mental image of ten basketballs being in play in an NBA game. That would be a pretty interesting yet totally chaotic game.

HAMMERTOE: As for Guantanamo, Obama tried to close it. Unfortunately, he tried to do so by shipping all the prisoners into the U.S. proper. Not the best of his ideas. It's understandable that Congress would shut him down on this. Perhaps the only thing I can give the GOP credit for in the past four years.


No, it's not understandable at all, unless you also believe that Gitmo prisoners can break out of supermax facilities with their laser eyes like the Illinois GOP does.
2012-09-17 10:50:01 AM
1 votes:

Gulper Eel: Jorn the Younger: Why is it wrong for them to say "Yes, you can spend time with the President, and share something of his daily life with the American People, but we can't let you print something that could be a threat to national security" ? Hasn't that been pretty much the deal since, like, forever? Isn't the smart thing to do is make it clear before starting that this is how it'll work, rather than having to get a judge to order an injunction to prevent publication of dangerous security information?

From the tone of the article, it looks like he spent far more time on the basketball court than in security briefings. I mean, this is slick-n-vapid Vanity Fair we're talking about here. Their readers want to know which designer Michelle is wearing and who chose the Oval Office drapes and whether Annie Liebovitz did the photo shoot, and not the details of Medicare reimbursement rate debates.


Since the decline of the big newspapers, a number of talented journalists have gone to work for offbeat places like Rolling Stone and Vanity Fair. This happened a long time ago, actually. Maybe you hadn't noticed, but a lot of great journalism is being published there.
2012-09-17 10:45:46 AM
1 votes:

asquian: People keep saying "pro Obama piece", etc. etc.

When you consider what percentage of the media's coverage(y'know, that liberal media who nonetheless keep presenting Obama in a mostly negative manner to stay "unbiased") is based on flat out fiction, then a piece that actually gives us an insight to what he's really like, how things actually are, is automatically going to be "pro Obama" because anything involving the reality of the man is going to be positive as it debunks the mostly negative perception being built.

I agree that there should have been a disclaimer on the quote agreement as well.

It's simply depressing that one of the best presidents this country has elected in over a decade is going to be "remembered"(keep in mind, these people have already forgotten Bush, and while they were likely alive during Reagan's administration, have absolutely no reliable recollection of his actual term as President) as history's greatest monster due to the sheer volume of the rhetoric.

No, he's not perfect, but most of the criticisms I'd have are comparatively mild ones, and many of the ones people do have generally involve either not comprehending how our government actually works or simple racism.


Good points.
2012-09-17 09:01:43 AM
1 votes:
Four years is quite long enough to lose touch with reality. It must be, because the republicans seem to think that they can get their poster-boy elected, despite alienating the Ron Paul contingent, all the Middle Class lost to the OWS movement, and a healthy percentage of women who like to think for their selves.

I wonder how close they are to being correct. This country knows no bounds when it comes to sheer ignorance and inability to see the big picture for all the distractions foisted upon us by the media. War on PovertyTM, War on DrugsTM, War on TerrorismTM- they're all wars on the effects of the exploitative policy of global imperialism by the rich. Why doesn't the government declare war on the cause, rather than the effects? Class warfare? Why is it only "Class Warfare" when it's a policy that will get the little guy ahead for once?
2012-09-17 08:22:57 AM
1 votes:

Gulper Eel: jso2897: When you reject any information that conflicts with your existing worldview, everything except selective "feed" liike Fox News, is "propaganda". The right-wing radical of today lives inside an airtight bublle of information.
To Gulper Eel, any information that presents the wicked Kenyan Muslim usurper as any sort of decent human being is false by definition - since it contradicts what he already holds to be the "truth".
That's how the "Stormfront" crowd process information.

2/10. A fair enough start, but then came the obligatory Fox reference and then you Godwinned it at the end. Go get a napkin for that spittle.

Gunther: Well no, but it is a common and understandable practice for reporters who are given a lot of access. It doesn't make him a "propagandist".

Indeed it does, as it does the "reporters" who do similar favors for the Romney campaign.

What you end up with are news organizations who put together partial stories - partial in both the sense that they are a fragment of the full story, and partial in the sense that they let the source call shots in exchange for access.

Journalism is supposed to be the first draft of history, not the tidied-up version. Yeah, so politicians are worried about gaffes. Too farking bad. That's the whole point of being a representative - to show the people you represent that you can engage your brain before opening your mouth, and to say things clearly enough the first time so you don't fall back on the "out of context" crutch.

One of the very few times quote-approval is acceptable is if the reporter is working on something highly technical and wants to be sure he's factually correct. But that's not what's going on here.


No, what's going on here is a reporter was, for six months, in a position to overhear all sorts of things that could possibly compromise national security. You know, like the identities of CIA operatives, details on covert operations still underway, stuff like that. Stuff that you shouldn't want to be printed in the national press.
2012-09-17 05:17:17 AM
1 votes:

Gulper Eel: Gunther: That's incredibly common practice for an embedded reporter.

All the cool kids are doing it. Which makes it perfectly okay.


Well no, but it is a common and understandable practice for reporters who are given a lot of access. It doesn't make him a "propagandist".
2012-09-17 03:33:47 AM
1 votes:
You would think that with the 100's of millions of dollars rich Republicans are throwing into this race, they could buy better trolls. I guess the Fark Politics tab gets the "he's my retarded cousin and I need to give him something to do during the day" trolls, and they save the A-list for other sites.
2012-09-17 01:32:47 AM
1 votes:

Proteios1: Well duh! Just look at that pretend war on women. No one understood that. Least of all women. But controversy sells.


Huh, all the women I know understand it; that's why they are voting for Obama.
2012-09-17 01:24:23 AM
1 votes:

Dwight_Yeast: propasaurus: Another interesting thing about Silver's projections. At no point has Romney ever been projected to reach 270 EV. There has never been any point at which Obama was projected to get less than 286. And Romney has always trailed in the popular vote, never approaching 50%, while Obama has never dipped below 50.

Which annoys me, as it either means he gets elected by a slim margin of the popular vote and the GOP claims the election was "stolen" or he loses by an equally slim margin (somehow).

Either way it's a repeat of 2000 or 2004.


I find it interesting that the Florida recount of 2000, which resulted in the Supreme Court telling us who got to be President, initially came about from a misunderstanding of culture and an overreliance on statistics: The woman who initially kicked the whole mess off based her theory on the fact that heavily Democratic districts in Florida nevertheless went about 95% for Bush in the election. This can't be right! shouted a person who obviously never heard of a Dixiecrat. There must have been voter fraud!! Of course, the Gore camp ran with it, and well, we got Bush instead. But it was all based on the preconceived notion that Democrats vote for Democratic Presidents, therefore the count had to be wrong, therefore Bush "stole" the election or whatever.

Now, how would that play out this November? The GOP has spent the last month developing a scenario whereby NOBODY could POSSIBLY want to re-elect Obama. Therefore, when the votes are counted and Obama wins--That can't be right! shout people who have created a reality where Obama = Hitler and Stalin's bastard clone. There must have been voter fraud!!! Whether Obama wins by a landslide or by a razor-thin margin, the GOP has invested in a worldview that says "Obama must lose." We'll see if they try it post election.
2012-09-17 01:18:23 AM
1 votes:

make me some tea: Contents Under Pressure: Who cares if it's a puff piece? It's an interesting read. It's nice to see what the guy does all day.

Definitely.


Yuppo. Found this bit interesting...

Then he swapped out the antique coffee table for a contemporary one, and the bust of Winston Churchill lent to Bush by Tony Blair for one of Martin Luther King Jr.

Bit of a "now you know the rest of the story" moment for me.
2012-09-17 12:50:54 AM
1 votes:
A well written piece, with an interesting insight into the day to day of the POTUS. I think most people have a difficult time imagining what it would be like to have the President's job and television and movies don't do a lot to help them understand.

On just about every job description I've ever read there is the same old "Able to work on multiple projects with rapidly changing priorities" but very few jobs ever come close to what the POTUS does every day. It was interesting to see how he manages his emotional and physical health.

It's obvious that the job demands incredible agility of mind and strong character. The line from the first lady's speech at the DNC comes to mind, "I have seen firsthand that being president doesn't change who you are - it reveals who you are."

If this is propaganda, as some people have suggested, it is done with a very light touch. It is more informative about the requirements of the job and the sort of demands it places on the individual in that position.
2012-09-16 11:57:34 PM
1 votes:
I thought it was a very good read.
2012-09-16 11:37:38 PM
1 votes:

Bocasio: Michael Lewis is a great writer.
M Lewis referenced there is an area on Air Force One for the Presidents Coffin.

President Obama (all Presidents) coffin is near the surgical area on the plane.
The President travels with his coffin.

Should be a great book


Do they really travel with their own coffin? That's creepy and philosophical at the same time.
2012-09-16 11:37:34 PM
1 votes:

BSABSVR: Gunther: /yes, I'm calling Greenwald farking crazy.
//because he is.

Glenn Greenwald is invaluable for pointing out civil liberties violations. It's a shame that he only has one gear and that gear is breathless hyperbole.


^ dat

I have so much respect for Greenwald WRT his analyses of constitutional issues, and - obviously - his steadfast defense of our civil liberties.... but sometimes... man... he'll occasionally boil down his arguments ~beyond~ distillation.

But I'd much rather he be investigating, noisy and pressing instead of being a pushover... the exaggerating is, perhaps, the price of having Glenn Greenwald on duty?

Tangentially: This was an interesting article from Foreign Policy, addressing Glenn's Salon-departure sendoff.
2012-09-16 11:10:46 PM
1 votes:
Can anyone envision Romney stating the following, when asked what a president does? FTA:

"I would say that your first and principal task is to think about the hopes and dreams the American people invested in you. Everything you are doing has to be viewed through this prism. And I tell you what every president ... I actually think every president understands this responsibility. I don't know George Bush well. I know Bill Clinton better. But I think they both approached the job in that spirit."

I like having a guy on the job that says that about his understanding of the job, and about his predecessors from the "other team".

Sure, it's a cherry-picked, approved quote - but I have no doubt that Obama said it. And that Romney would say... well, fark, I don't know what Romney thinks the job is.
2012-09-16 10:47:09 PM
1 votes:

propasaurus: Hobodeluxe: Per Nate Silver, the generic battle polls are shifting.

[si0.twimg.com image 48x48]Nate Silver@fivethirtyeight

Four generic ballot polls released this week: Dems +2 (Rasmussen), Dems +4 (YouGov), Dems +6 (Ipsos), Dems +6 (PPP)
12 Sep 12
ReplyRetweetFavorite

Another interesting thing about Silver's projections. At no point has Romney ever been projected to reach 270 EV. There has never been any point at which Obama was projected to get less than 286. And Romney has always trailed in the popular vote, never approaching 50%, while Obama has never dipped below 50.


the lead is around 10-12 % if everyone registered would vote. it goes down quite bit when it's likely voters. 4 points or so. and if they can keep enough people away from the polls. they will make it a horse race.
2012-09-16 10:39:42 PM
1 votes:

propasaurus: Another interesting thing about Silver's projections. At no point has Romney ever been projected to reach 270 EV. There has never been any point at which Obama was projected to get less than 286. And Romney has always trailed in the popular vote, never approaching 50%, while Obama has never dipped below 50.


Which annoys me, as it either means he gets elected by a slim margin of the popular vote and the GOP claims the election was "stolen" or he loses by an equally slim margin (somehow).

Either way it's a repeat of 2000 or 2004.
2012-09-16 10:29:06 PM
1 votes:

Hobodeluxe: Per Nate Silver, the generic battle polls are shifting.

[si0.twimg.com image 48x48]Nate Silver@fivethirtyeight

Four generic ballot polls released this week: Dems +2 (Rasmussen), Dems +4 (YouGov), Dems +6 (Ipsos), Dems +6 (PPP)
12 Sep 12
ReplyRetweetFavorite


Another interesting thing about Silver's projections. At no point has Romney ever been projected to reach 270 EV. There has never been any point at which Obama was projected to get less than 286. And Romney has always trailed in the popular vote, never approaching 50%, while Obama has never dipped below 50.
2012-09-16 09:15:15 PM
1 votes:

St_Francis_P: Gyrfalcon: themindiswatching: SouthParkCon: slobbers on his Messiah's knob

You sound closeted.

What is it with hard-right trolls and their fascination with fellating the Commander in Chief?

You have to understand that when they use the term, it means manly, non-homosexual fellating.


I think I understand.
2012-09-16 09:13:58 PM
1 votes:

thismomentinblackhistory: Contents Under Pressure: Who cares if it's a puff piece? It's an interesting read. It's nice to see what the guy does all day.

This.

I've read similar puff pieces on President's whom I opposed, and found them interesting not for what was said, but what was told -- the small, mundane details of day-to-day life as POTUS.


Nothing about being POTUS is mundane. That's the interesting part. The portion about the bullethole right where his head would normally be when he's on the Truman balcony is jarring to say the least, whether I agree with the guy in office or not. I mean, holy shiat.
2012-09-16 09:12:19 PM
1 votes:

Contents Under Pressure: Who cares if it's a puff piece? It's an interesting read. It's nice to see what the guy does all day.


Definitely.
2012-09-16 09:11:44 PM
1 votes:

NeverDrunk23: make me some tea: Dwight_Yeast: make me some tea: I would like to have seen more of a discussion on how he feels about some of his failures, and his more controversial actions (drone strikes, choosing not to close Guantanomo, etc)

Are You High?

And drone strikes go right along with the foreign policy he outlined in the debates and speeches before the 2008 election: he said he'd go into other countries to get bin Ladan other members of al Qaeda, but do it in the least invasive war possible, and we're still technically in a war in (but not with) Afghanistan.

Was I the only one who actually paid attention to what Obama said in 2008?

I realize that, but the drone strikes in particular are a controversial area, especially among liberals, and while I generally agree that it's the best strategy we've got going, I worry how much of a cause célèbre this is for extremist group recruitment overseas, just as I worried with the strategies used under the Bush admin.

I don't really have any answers, just questions I guess.

Is the drone strike a concern for the idea that maybe its a quick go-to answer and the idea that the chances of killing innocent people increases? Granted, it seems like a better alternative to feet on the ground approaches, but like with almost everything, there is no light switch answer so there is definitely a negative here with drones.

And I think why people are pissed at obama for Guantanomois because he didn't stand with a big stick and aggressively make his case to close it,even if the whole thing was a foregone conclusion.


Agreed, and agreed.
2012-09-16 09:05:39 PM
1 votes:

make me some tea: Dwight_Yeast: make me some tea: I would like to have seen more of a discussion on how he feels about some of his failures, and his more controversial actions (drone strikes, choosing not to close Guantanomo, etc)

Are You High?

And drone strikes go right along with the foreign policy he outlined in the debates and speeches before the 2008 election: he said he'd go into other countries to get bin Ladan other members of al Qaeda, but do it in the least invasive war possible, and we're still technically in a war in (but not with) Afghanistan.

Was I the only one who actually paid attention to what Obama said in 2008?

I realize that, but the drone strikes in particular are a controversial area, especially among liberals, and while I generally agree that it's the best strategy we've got going, I worry how much of a cause célèbre this is for extremist group recruitment overseas, just as I worried with the strategies used under the Bush admin.

I don't really have any answers, just questions I guess.


Is the drone strike a concern for the idea that maybe its a quick go-to answer and the idea that the chances of killing innocent people increases? Granted, it seems like a better alternative to feet on the ground approaches, but like with almost everything, there is no light switch answer so there is definitely a negative here with drones.

And I think why people are pissed at obama for Guantanomois because he didn't stand with a big stick and aggressively make his case to close it,even if the whole thing was a foregone conclusion.
2012-09-16 09:02:33 PM
1 votes:
Who cares if it's a puff piece? It's an interesting read. It's nice to see what the guy does all day.
2012-09-16 08:53:48 PM
1 votes:

Gulper Eel: Interesting piece.

Interesting in that the piece does not mention that in exchange for access, Lewis gave the White House approval rights over any quotes used in TFA.

Kudos to the New York Times for actually calling bullshiat.

Now that it's become clear that many journalists covering politics and government agree to quotation-approval as a condition of access, it's tough not to see the pageant of democracy as just that: a carefully constructed performance meant to showcase the participants in the best light.

At the very least the quote-approval needs to be disclosed. In this article, it wasn't.

But that's okay because it makes your guy look good.

Even the reliably left-wing Glenn Greenwald is calling it a puff piece, and then goes about thorougly ripping to shreds all the excuses given for quote approval.

Then he wraps with this, and I'll boldface it so you can read it through koolaid-colored glasses:

No readers are being "informed" by the publication of a profile in which the subject of the profile has the power to decide what does and does not get printed. They're being propagandized.


To be fair, just about all Greenwald does is biatch about Obama.
2012-09-16 08:48:36 PM
1 votes:

Dwight_Yeast: make me some tea: I would like to have seen more of a discussion on how he feels about some of his failures, and his more controversial actions (drone strikes, choosing not to close Guantanomo, etc)

Are You High?

And drone strikes go right along with the foreign policy he outlined in the debates and speeches before the 2008 election: he said he'd go into other countries to get bin Ladan other members of al Qaeda, but do it in the least invasive war possible, and we're still technically in a war in (but not with) Afghanistan.

Was I the only one who actually paid attention to what Obama said in 2008?


I realize that, but the drone strikes in particular are a controversial area, especially among liberals, and while I generally agree that it's the best strategy we've got going, I worry how much of a cause célèbre this is for extremist group recruitment overseas, just as I worried with the strategies used under the Bush admin.

I don't really have any answers, just questions I guess.
2012-09-16 08:39:36 PM
1 votes:

make me some tea: I would like to have seen more of a discussion on how he feels about some of his failures, and his more controversial actions (drone strikes, choosing not to close Guantanomo, etc)


Are You High?

And drone strikes go right along with the foreign policy he outlined in the debates and speeches before the 2008 election: he said he'd go into other countries to get bin Ladan other members of al Qaeda, but do it in the least invasive war possible, and we're still technically in a war in (but not with) Afghanistan.

Was I the only one who actually paid attention to what Obama said in 2008?
2012-09-16 08:38:17 PM
1 votes:

PonceAlyosha: make me some tea: choosing not to close Guantanomo

When did Obama chose to not close Guantanomo? Or does Congress magically not exist anymore?


I suppose.
2012-09-16 08:32:37 PM
1 votes:

Gulper Eel: make me some tea: The author does say that very, very little was left out or changed, but it would be helpful to know what that means

Why change much if the article's going to be so favorable?

Could any of you here see Matt Taibbi agreeing to quote approval?


I don't know what Matt Taibbi would do but

On Morning Joe last week Micheal Lewis was on with Jon Meacham.
Jon Meacham is a historian, low key person, and journalist

riverdaughter.files.wordpress.com

When Micheal Lewis started telling the anecdotes
of being in the White House Jon Meacham was wide eyed and
enthralled by the everyday details of the Presidency
2012-09-16 08:28:03 PM
1 votes:

Gulper Eel: make me some tea: The author does say that very, very little was left out or changed, but it would be helpful to know what that means

Why change much if the article's going to be so favorable?

Could any of you here see Matt Taibbi agreeing to quote approval?


It was quite obviously a pro-Obama piece, there's no doubt there, but I also don't have any reason to believe anything said in it is false. It's certainly not going to change anyone's mind, but it was a very interesting read nonetheless.

I would like to have seen more of a discussion on how he feels about some of his failures, and his more controversial actions (drone strikes, choosing not to close Guantanomo, etc), but I suppose that would've made the article 20 pages instead of 9. The Libya decisionmaking process was fascinating, and that was the central theme of the piece anyway, considering that's what was going on during his time with Obama. I'll read the more comprehensive insider-authored book(s) that come out after his presidency is over, those give a much better arc of understanding, but it ain't over yet.
2012-09-16 08:25:09 PM
1 votes:
Nice article, I'd like to play golf with the guy and then have a beer with him, as someone previously mentioned - it's good to have an adult in charge again. It was interesting to read about the decision making process concerning Libya, I liked how Obama entertained opinions from people who weren't just senior officials, and cautions regarding quote decision privileges aside - it's obvious Michael Lewis enjoyed his time with President Obama.
2012-09-16 08:10:02 PM
1 votes:

mrshowrules: During an election cycle and based on the GOP willing to may hay out of practically nothing, it isn't surprising that the administration is trying not to feed ammunition to the Romney campaign.


That was also addressed in either the article or the NPR interview, I can't recall which.
2012-09-16 07:36:36 PM
1 votes:

propasaurus: Mitt Romney cheats at his own family Olympics


Wozza?

*click*

Wow, just wow. Portrait of a patriarchal control freak or what?

The family vacation is not optional and all the adults are expected to participate in a mini-triathlon of running, swimming and biking. Previously, Mitt was embarassed by nearly losing to a daughter-in-law who had just given birth two months before. So he has added 'sports' which he excels at, to stack the deck in his favor. Against his family.

"We added some things I excel at so I don't come in last every year," Mr Romney said.


The sports he added were upper body strength-o-centric.

It seems that it's not that Mitt hates losing so much (although he does) it's that he really hates losing to a girl.

And here I was thinking my opinion of the guy couldn't get any lower.
2012-09-16 07:19:19 PM
1 votes:

NIXON YOU DOLT!!!!!: Yeah, I just read all that. Weird. I can remember clear as a bell being told by a conspiracy theorist that they knew it was a set up because he went in the plane in a body bag and came off in a coffin. Must have been a predecessor to the modern tea .


What's interesting, reading the long story from the this blog is that you get a sense of how disorganized events and people were, that the conspiracy theories started swirling not because people knew what they were doing but because they hadn't a clue.

JFK's body should have stay in Dallas, been examined by the coroner there, embalmed and then return to DC. Instead, because everyone had the mindset of getting "home" they made a complete mess of everything.

...which is why there's now a coffin on Air Force One, and a notebook somewhere which handles every possible detail in handling an assassinated president's body.
2012-09-16 07:17:06 PM
1 votes:
"No one held back, no one deferred. Guys on [Obama's] team dribbled past him and ignored the fact he was wide open. . . .

"'No one seems to be taking it easy on [Obama],' I said.

'If you take it easy on him, you're not invited back,' he explained.


Good policy, but I wonder what they mean by "take it easy"? Play to win, okay. But do I get to hack at him to prevent an easy layup? Throw some elbows in the post? Maybe hip check him out of the way when going up for a rebound?

The balls it would take to not only swat a shot from the President all the way across the court but to stare him down for a beat afterwards.
2012-09-16 07:01:24 PM
1 votes:
Oh well, I thought, at least I can guard the president. Obama played in high school, on a team that won the Hawaii state championship. But he hadn't played in college, and even in high school he hadn't started. Plus, he hadn't played in several months, and he was days away from his 51st birthday: how good could he be?

This is how I know, without reading further, that he's about to get his ass beat by the President.
2012-09-16 07:01:01 PM
1 votes:
"No one held back, no one deferred. Guys on [Obama's] team dribbled past him and ignored the fact he was wide open. . . .

"'No one seems to be taking it easy on [Obama],' I said.

'If you take it easy on him, you're not invited back,' he explained.


Somehow I can't imagine Romney taking a similar tack.

I can imagine Romney not inviting someone back for not letting him win though.

Maybe even a good firing. Mitt likes to fire people.
2012-09-16 06:46:50 PM
1 votes:

propasaurus: How disheartened would you be if your job was to troll for Mitt Romney?


Are we sure those are actual humans trolling? Maybe they're using some sort of troll mad libs program.

/we should run Turing tests on them.
2012-09-16 06:41:43 PM
1 votes:

GhostFish: make me some tea: crazyeddie: Awesome article. Too bad subby put it in the one place where no one will ever read it: The Politics Tab.

You tend to get a better quality conversation the Politics tab, even if fewer will see it.

You must have a lot of people on ignore.


A few, but have you been in a mainpage politics thread lately? I don't even know where these people come from. They quickly fill with hundreds of people derping the thing into the ground, as if someone blew a dog whistle and they all start barking.
2012-09-16 06:34:34 PM
1 votes:

Notabunny: unit63: FTFA: Eight years ago he could have taken a group tour of the White House and no one would have recognized him.

Funny because true.

I understand the point he's trying to make, but, no, that statement is not true. Eight years ago, everybody knew who Barack Obama was.


That's not true at all. While that speech catapulted him to prominence, the vast majority of Americans still had no idea who the hell he was until the primaries. You're confusing common knowledge in our self selected political wonk bubble for general common knowledge.
2012-09-16 06:27:56 PM
1 votes:

unit63: FTFA: Eight years ago he could have taken a group tour of the White House and no one would have recognized him.

Funny because true.


I understand the point he's trying to make, but, no, that statement is not true. Eight years ago, everybody knew who Barack Obama was.
2012-09-16 06:21:10 PM
1 votes:
FTFA: Eight years ago he could have taken a group tour of the White House and no one would have recognized him.

Funny because true.
2012-09-16 06:13:17 PM
1 votes:

make me some tea: crazyeddie: Awesome article. Too bad subby put it in the one place where no one will ever read it: The Politics Tab.

You tend to get a better quality conversation the Politics tab, even if fewer will see it.


You must have a lot of people on ignore.
2012-09-16 06:11:54 PM
1 votes:
Well duh! Just look at that pretend war on women. No one understood that. Least of all women. But controversy sells.
2012-09-16 06:05:21 PM
1 votes:

crazyeddie: Awesome article. Too bad subby put it in the one place where no one will ever read it: The Politics Tab.


You tend to get a better quality conversation the Politics tab, even if fewer will see it.
2012-09-16 05:56:05 PM
1 votes:

coco ebert: I haven't read the piece, but I listened to an interview with the guy on Leonard Lopate and I liked how he talked about how Obama views everything with a 52-48% chance of success (or vice-versa). In other words that there are multiple contingencies and things can easily go a different way. What a complex mind and what a change from Dubya.


Yeah I saw the Fresh Air interview on NPR's "Most Emailed" this morning and listened. Adds even more to it.
2012-09-16 05:51:49 PM
1 votes:
fta: "He prefers the F.B.I.'s because it is a bit smaller than a regulation court, which reduces also the advantages of youth"

what a surprise.
2012-09-16 05:51:41 PM
1 votes:
Obvious
2012-09-16 03:56:47 PM
1 votes:

Benevolent Misanthrope: Welcome to the "no shiat" files. Jesus - it's like people have no idea how politics works.

This is why I'm seriously considering moving to Canada. They may have the same lack of leaders the US does, but at least their leaders' little picayune arguments don't affect the entire farking world.


I work with an ex-pat Yank. Helluva nice guy, real smart, cute wife. Bit of a conspiracy freak. Though I have to admit some of the things he's told me about what your government is up to/what might be up to scare the shiat out of me.
2012-09-16 03:50:03 PM
1 votes:
Welcome to the "no shiat" files. Jesus - it's like people have no idea how politics works.

This is why I'm seriously considering moving to Canada. They may have the same lack of leaders the US does, but at least their leaders' little picayune arguments don't affect the entire farking world.
 
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