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(Reuters)   Wal-Mart: ♪♫ Start spreading the news, I am leaving today, I want to be a part of it, New York, New York ♪♫. NYC: Nope   (reuters.com) divider line 61
    More: Fail, Wal-Mart, New York  
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3270 clicks; posted to Business » on 16 Sep 2012 at 7:07 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-16 07:02:01 AM
And yet , people still want to live in New York! Why? Can you imagine, not being able to go to a Walmart? THE HORROR!
 
2012-09-16 09:18:19 AM
NYC disapproves of any store selling sodas exceeding 16 oz.
 
2012-09-16 09:19:34 AM
I love the fact that the picture features a guy in a Mets cap. The Mets are a poster child of how NOT to run a corporation.
 
2012-09-16 10:53:03 AM
Wal-Mart has faced opposition from some groups in New York that say it does not pay its workers adequately and would drive out small local businesses. 
 
*Sigh*
 
No, it won't drive out small businesses if they have a niche.  If all you're doing is selling the same crap Wal Mart sells, you have it coming.
 
Here in New Orleans we have 2 Wal Marts within 2-3 miles of me.  I shop there often for the generic crap I need like detergent, paper towels, etc.
 
But we have *plenty* of thriving smaller shops that sell niche items.  I don't feel like i'm feeding an evil beast when I buy Tide or Bounty paper towels for a buck less at Wal Mart.
 
If you're going to set up a ma and pa shop... make sure you have some sort of creative niche not served by big box stores.  Simple.
 
2012-09-16 11:10:35 AM
Brooklyn has two Target stores. I wouldn't want a skank ass Wal-Mart in my neighborhood either. Hell, let Target open up another store in their area.
 
2012-09-16 11:27:50 AM
Walmart = the distribution arm of Communist China
 
2012-09-16 11:32:30 AM
I'm on NYC's side given how Bentonville deploys megafarktons of PR, legal, and other resources when they encounter opposition. Their other policies aren't good, but Wal-Mart had to bribe clergy of all people in order to get a store in south Chicago. The company has also done every single labor relations trick in the book against workers - even if they're not doing something that is considered a "labor relations emergency" worthy of calling in Wal-Mart's thugs in suits - from closing stores that were otherwise profitable to converting people to contracts in order to insulate themselves from worker reactions.

/Wal-Mart makes any Northern city look saintly clean, even Chicago.
//Would welcome a Costco for their good service and willingness to use other actions than "smite workers" wrt labor relations
 
2012-09-16 11:36:06 AM

downstairs: No, it won't drive out small businesses if they have a niche. If all you're doing is selling the same crap Wal Mart sells, you have it coming.

Here in New Orleans we have 2 Wal Marts within 2-3 miles of me. I shop there often for the generic crap I need like detergent, paper towels, etc.

But we have *plenty* of thriving smaller shops that sell niche items. I don't feel like i'm feeding an evil beast when I buy Tide or Bounty paper towels for a buck less at Wal Mart.

If you're going to set up a ma and pa shop... make sure you have some sort of creative niche not served by big box stores. Simple.


Apparently you bought in their PR team's script - hook, line, and sinker.

If they're such good people, then why do they have to hide their presence, corrupt clergy, bribe public officials at all levels, smite workers and squeeze suppliers?

Making a deal with them is outright Faustian.
 
2012-09-16 11:36:58 AM

mikemoto: Post-Walton Wal-Mart is a poster child of how NOT to run a corporation.

FTFY.
 
2012-09-16 12:07:43 PM
Great another thread for the Wal-Mart hipsters to complain about stuff they have knowledge of.
 
2012-09-16 12:09:00 PM

Mid_mo_mad_man: Great another thread for the Wal-Mart hipsters to complain about stuff they have knowledge of.


Wal-Mart hating hipsters
 
2012-09-16 12:10:06 PM
I wouldn't want any more of my tax money to subsidize their poor ass workers either. If your employees qualify for food stamps and housing assistance then YOU ARE NOT PAYING THEM ENOUGH.
 
2012-09-16 12:59:52 PM
Can we stop with "Walmart not paying its employees enough"?

As if Target, Shoprite and Kmart are paying their city employees $20 an hour and Walmart is gonna come in and enslave their at will associates at sub minimum wage.

Don't even get me started on the wonderful pay and benefit programs of "mom and pop" operators.
 
2012-09-16 01:26:32 PM

nogames2k4: Can we stop with "Walmart not paying its employees enough"?

As if Target, Shoprite and Kmart are paying their city employees $20 an hour and Walmart is gonna come in and enslave their at will associates at sub minimum wage.

Don't even get me started on the wonderful pay and benefit programs of "mom and pop" operators.


But Wally World could easily afford to pay it's employees a living wage. How can Costco do it?
 
2012-09-16 01:43:10 PM

lewismarktwo: nogames2k4: Can we stop with "Walmart not paying its employees enough"?

As if Target, Shoprite and Kmart are paying their city employees $20 an hour and Walmart is gonna come in and enslave their at will associates at sub minimum wage.

Don't even get me started on the wonderful pay and benefit programs of "mom and pop" operators.

But Wally World could easily afford to pay it's employees a living wage. How can Costco do it?


Apples & oranges comparing Costco and Wal-Mart. Comparing the Sam's Club division to Costco is more reasonable and you will find wages are not much different.
 
2012-09-16 01:45:36 PM

Mid_mo_mad_man: lewismarktwo: nogames2k4: Can we stop with "Walmart not paying its employees enough"?

As if Target, Shoprite and Kmart are paying their city employees $20 an hour and Walmart is gonna come in and enslave their at will associates at sub minimum wage.

Don't even get me started on the wonderful pay and benefit programs of "mom and pop" operators.

But Wally World could easily afford to pay it's employees a living wage. How can Costco do it?

Apples & oranges comparing Costco and Wal-Mart. Comparing the Sam's Club division to Costco is more reasonable and you will find wages are not much different.


Well, maybe Walmart should be more like Costco?
 
2012-09-16 01:51:22 PM

lewismarktwo: Mid_mo_mad_man: lewismarktwo: nogames2k4: Can we stop with "Walmart not paying its employees enough"?

As if Target, Shoprite and Kmart are paying their city employees $20 an hour and Walmart is gonna come in and enslave their at will associates at sub minimum wage.

Don't even get me started on the wonderful pay and benefit programs of "mom and pop" operators.

But Wally World could easily afford to pay it's employees a living wage. How can Costco do it?

Apples & oranges comparing Costco and Wal-Mart. Comparing the Sam's Club division to Costco is more reasonable and you will find wages are not much different.

Well, maybe Walmart should be more like Costco?


Or if you looked at other discount retailers ie: Target, Kmart, and Gerbes/Dillons/Kroger you find that Wal-Mart averages about the same
 
2012-09-16 01:59:48 PM
Yeah, that's a good move, tell a company that can bring in an ass ton of new jobs and tax dollars to leave.

And as for the bit about Walmart not paying it's people enough, that's true for all retail companies. My mother in law works for Target. She has a coworker who has been with the company over 15 years and is not in management. He makes an awesome wage of less than $10/hour. I don't have any problem with retail companies paying their workers at least minimum wage. My problem is managers who make their people work off the clock (illegal), and people who knowingly take a job as a retail cashier knowing that it's minimum wage or not much more than minimum wage and then complaining about being paid poorly and having to take out food stamps. Look, no one put a gun to your head and said "Take this job." You weren't hired on saying that you'd be paid $20/hour and then were told "Oh, sorry, it's going to be minimum wage." You knew what you were in for and did it anyways. Saying Walmart is wrong for paying employees low is no different and watching someone jump out in front of a moving train and then blaming the train.

Yes, retail companies don't pay much, but that little bit is better than nothing at all. And if you don't like the low pay of retail, do something about it. Right after high school my best friend and I got jobs that paid minimum wage, and they sucked. He was fast food I was retail. Today I have the earning potential of $225/hour. Why??? Because I realized that when you're paid hourly, no matter how hard you work, at the end of the week, your paycheck is hourly wage times 40 minus benefits and taxes. And I was that guy who worked harder than my coworkers, so I was doing the dumb thing of working harder for the check that was just like everyone else's. So I went into commission work. It's nice to make more in two days than my parent's make all month.

My best friend from high school. He still makes minimum wage. Views working commission as a get rich quick scheme that he'd never do because he he didn't work he wouldn't get paid (duh) and every November votes for the guy who is promising to raise minimum wage since in his mind that's the only way to actually get a pay raise, completely ignoring that I've only had one minimum wage job ever.

Point of the story: let Walmart offer to pay their people what they want. If you don't like it, don't work there, instead, better yourself and get a better paying job. Don't rely on the government to raise your paycheck for you by kicking out businesses that don't pay their people enough or voting for someone to raise minimum wage (and no matter how high minimum wage goes, if that is what you make, it's the lowest your employer is legally allowed to pay you. I don't fight for minimum wage increases, I fought to increase my worth by improving myself).

Banning Walmart is really a dumb move and the reasoning for doing it to protect mom and pop stores is retarded.
 
2012-09-16 02:32:37 PM
i.qkme.me
 
2012-09-16 02:48:49 PM
Yeah this makes sense. Instead of letting the customers decide through purchasing things or not purchasing them they create artificial barriers to business. I refuse to believe Bloomberg would approve of this idiocy.
 
2012-09-16 02:49:02 PM

Mid_mo_mad_man: Or if you looked at other discount retailers ie: Target, Kmart, and Gerbes/Dillons/Kroger you find that Wal-Mart averages about the same


The difference is that Walmart keeps the bulk of its employs on part-time, so they don't have to pay benefits. They've also gotten in trouble in the past for locking workers in stores and forcing them to work unpaid inventory. And for hiring illegal immigrants knowingly. And for handing out info on food stamps and other government programs to their underpaid, part-time employees.

And then there's the swat team based in Bentonville which has its own private jet on standby, who fly out to any store where there's been the slightest hint of union organization and fire the agitation. This team costs the company $600K every time they leave the ground in Arkansas. The company spends millions a year combating union organization, which was one of the biggest problems in NYC.

And I can go on at length, but you just go ahead and defend Walmart.
 
2012-09-16 02:51:17 PM

Brostorm: Yeah this makes sense. Instead of letting the customers decide through purchasing things or not purchasing them they create artificial barriers to business. I refuse to believe Bloomberg would approve of this idiocy.


Uh, no. The people of Brookyn (and NYC in general) made it very clear that they didn't want a Walmart in the city. Bloomberg was all for it, but the citizens made their position very clear.
 
2012-09-16 03:10:05 PM

Dwight_Yeast: Mid_mo_mad_man: Or if you looked at other discount retailers ie: Target, Kmart, and Gerbes/Dillons/Kroger you find that Wal-Mart averages about the same

The difference is that Walmart keeps the bulk of its employs on part-time, so they don't have to pay benefits. They've also gotten in trouble in the past for locking workers in stores and forcing them to work unpaid inventory. And for hiring illegal immigrants knowingly. And for handing out info on food stamps and other government programs to their underpaid, part-time employees.

And then there's the swat team based in Bentonville which has its own private jet on standby, who fly out to any store where there's been the slightest hint of union organization and fire the agitation. This team costs the company $600K every time they leave the ground in Arkansas. The company spends millions a year combating union organization, which was one of the biggest problems in NYC.

And I can go on at length, but you just go ahead and defend Walmart.


Ummm...is it really wrong for a company to say "Yeah, we don't pay you enough to live on, so here are some government programs to help you out." I've never had an employer do that.

As for hiring illegals, while I don't like it, it's hard to find a company that doesn't.

As for the unionizing, I've worked at two companies where they were unionized, and honestly, I hated being there and my biggest problems both times were the union. If I heard that my coworkers were wanting to unionize and that I could call a company hotline and get those assholes fired, I'd do it in a heart beat.
 
2012-09-16 03:13:08 PM

Great Janitor: Dwight_Yeast: Mid_mo_mad_man:
As for the unionizing, I've worked at two companies where they were unionized, and honestly, I hated being there and my biggest problems both times were the union. If I heard that my coworkers were wanting to unionize and that I could call a company hotline and get those assholes fired, I'd do it in a heart beat.


Wow, you're either trolling or an asshole.

/Probably both
 
2012-09-16 03:14:31 PM

Dwight_Yeast: Mid_mo_mad_man: Or if you looked at other discount retailers ie: Target, Kmart, and Gerbes/Dillons/Kroger you find that Wal-Mart averages about the same

The difference is that Walmart keeps the bulk of its employs on part-time, so they don't have to pay benefits. They've also gotten in trouble in the past for locking workers in stores and forcing them to work unpaid inventory. And for hiring illegal immigrants knowingly. And for handing out info on food stamps and other government programs to their underpaid, part-time employees.

And then there's the swat team based in Bentonville which has its own private jet on standby, who fly out to any store where there's been the slightest hint of union organization and fire the agitation. This team costs the company $600K every time they leave the ground in Arkansas. The company spends millions a year combating union organization, which was one of the biggest problems in NYC.

And I can go on at length, but you just go ahead and defend Walmart.


Seriously you think most retail isn't part time? Also it might be news to you but Bentonville doesn't set the starting pay at individual stores. The store manger does. He's allowed to set it according to what is nessarcy to atract workers.
 
2012-09-16 03:18:46 PM

Great Janitor: Ummm...is it really wrong for a company to say "Yeah, we don't pay you enough to live on, so here are some government programs to help you out." I've never had an employer do that.


It's not that they don't pay them enough hourly. It's that they will hire two people to each work 20 hours/week instead of one at 40, as then they don't have to pay benefits, which is why the employees need Medicaid and food stamps.

You try living anywhere on the salary from a part-time job.

Great Janitor: As for hiring illegals, while I don't like it, it's hard to find a company that doesn't.


Not a justification, and not a problem you see Target or any other big-box retailer running into. The issue at Walmart was they did it knowlingly and paid them less than minimum wage.

Great Janitor: As for the unionizing, I've worked at two companies where they were unionized, and honestly, I hated being there and my biggest problems both times were the union. If I heard that my coworkers were wanting to unionize and that I could call a company hotline and get those assholes fired, I'd do it in a heart beat.


Having no idea where you worked, there's really nothing I can say about your anecdote. My father used to complain about the same thing, but the problem wasn't with the union, it was that he wasn't IN the union.

We have a legal right to organize in this country, and Walmart works very carefully to abjure its employees of that right for no reason than that it would cost them a little more money.

Anything else? I can do this all night.
 
2012-09-16 03:21:32 PM

Summoner101: Great Janitor: Dwight_Yeast: Mid_mo_mad_man:
As for the unionizing, I've worked at two companies where they were unionized, and honestly, I hated being there and my biggest problems both times were the union. If I heard that my coworkers were wanting to unionize and that I could call a company hotline and get those assholes fired, I'd do it in a heart beat.

Wow, you're either trolling or an asshole.

/Probably both


Having worked in both union places and non union places, the non-union places are a freaking paradise. Higher pay, no union telling me that my first paycheck is getting docked for entry fees, union fees and exit fees. I have the ability to go straight to the manager with any problem I have, instead of being told that I have to talk to my union rep who will then forward to my manager my question/concerns/requests. People who should be fired get fired instead of having the union fight to keep a person who is a walking talking safety hazard on the payroll. Want a union, fine, just don't bring one to where I work, leave and find a place that already has one.
 
2012-09-16 03:23:53 PM

Mid_mo_mad_man: Seriously you think most retail isn't part time? Also it might be news to you but Bentonville doesn't set the starting pay at individual stores. The store manger does. He's allowed to set it according to what is nessarcy to atract workers.


...but he's expected to keep payroll at a minimum, at any costs, which is why managers locked employees in stores after hours to do inventory and a whole laundry list of other violations. When Bentonville tells a manager to do something there an implied "...or we fire you" which trickles down from the regional managers to the store managers, etc.

And to answer your other question, employees at Target are mostly full-time and receive healthcare, etc. Managers get some form of stock options or profit sharing (I'm blanking at the moment) It's why my local Target is a pleasant place to shop and my Walmart is a shiathole.
 
2012-09-16 03:26:17 PM

Great Janitor: Having worked in both union places and non union places, the non-union places are a freaking paradise.


I know people who can say the same thing from the opposite direction. Unions don't make workplaces good or bad, they're just one piece in the workplace environment.
 
2012-09-16 03:37:29 PM

Dwight_Yeast: Great Janitor: Having worked in both union places and non union places, the non-union places are a freaking paradise.

I know people who can say the same thing from the opposite direction. Unions don't make workplaces good or bad, they're just one piece in the workplace environment.


Wait wait wait... you're saying that unions don't all act like the mafia?
 
2012-09-16 03:45:49 PM

lewismarktwo: Wait wait wait... you're saying that unions don't all act like the mafia?


That is correct. One of my friends is in the IATSE in New York and she loves it. Working on movies, she's basically an independent contractor, so the union handles healthcare, pension, etc. And there's little bullshiat; she frequently works 12-14 hour days, and there's no union rep on-set trying to pull the plug.
 
2012-09-16 05:35:42 PM
If anything, Wal-Mart pays too much. The only reason they should pay what they do is the stupid minimum wage law.

Gee, where will I EVER find someone intelligent enough to gather up the farker carts from the parking lot.

Seriously, that should be, like, 80 cents an hour or something.
 
2012-09-16 06:03:00 PM

SevenizGud: If anything, Wal-Mart pays too much. The only reason they should pay what they do is the stupid minimum wage law.

Gee, where will I EVER find someone intelligent enough to gather up the farker carts from the parking lot.

Seriously, that should be, like, 80 cents an hour or something.


I hear that getting all the carts is actually VERY physically demanding work
 
2012-09-16 06:04:19 PM
use to work in Mom and Pop stores in NYC--horrible horrible treatment.. And these people biatch about Walmart. HAH
 
2012-09-16 06:13:19 PM

moefuggenbrew: SevenizGud:

I hear that getting all the carts is actually VERY physically demanding work


Every Wal-Mart I've been to lately (which isn't many, I'll admit I only go once a month at most anymore) has one of these:
www.gatekeepersystems.com
So retrieving the carts only requires one person, and it isn't much work at all.
 
2012-09-16 06:26:27 PM

buzzcut73: Every Wal-Mart I've been to lately (which isn't many, I'll admit I only go once a month at most anymore) has one of these:
www.gatekeepersystems.com
So retrieving the carts only requires one person, and it isn't much work at all.


Yeah, even my neighborhood ghetto Walmart has one of those.
 
2012-09-16 06:27:52 PM

Great Janitor: Dwight_Yeast: Mid_mo_mad_man: Or if you looked at other discount retailers ie: Target, Kmart, and Gerbes/Dillons/Kroger you find that Wal-Mart averages about the same

The difference is that Walmart keeps the bulk of its employs on part-time, so they don't have to pay benefits. They've also gotten in trouble in the past for locking workers in stores and forcing them to work unpaid inventory. And for hiring illegal immigrants knowingly. And for handing out info on food stamps and other government programs to their underpaid, part-time employees.

And then there's the swat team based in Bentonville which has its own private jet on standby, who fly out to any store where there's been the slightest hint of union organization and fire the agitation. This team costs the company $600K every time they leave the ground in Arkansas. The company spends millions a year combating union organization, which was one of the biggest problems in NYC.

And I can go on at length, but you just go ahead and defend Walmart.

Ummm...is it really wrong for a company to say "Yeah, we don't pay you enough to live on, so here are some government programs to help you out." I've never had an employer do that.

As for hiring illegals, while I don't like it, it's hard to find a company that doesn't.

As for the unionizing, I've worked at two companies where they were unionized, and honestly, I hated being there and my biggest problems both times were the union. If I heard that my coworkers were wanting to unionize and that I could call a company hotline and get those assholes fired, I'd do it in a heart beat.


It is illegal to retaliate against workers trying to form a union. Plus, if someone is trying to form a union, and enough people agree with that effort, then there is obviously something wrong with that workplace that management either cannot or will not address.

My dad worked for Estwing (you know, the one piece hammer company) until he retired. He was a QA manager. He told me that no one there ever tried to form a union. His opinion was that nobody thought that there was any need to form a union because the company treated its employees well. So, if management treats employees well and doesn't try to exploit them, the employees won't even think about unionizing.
 
2012-09-16 06:28:42 PM

ghare: And yet , people still want to live in New York! Why? Can you imagine, not being able to go to a Walmart? THE HORROR!


I live in Arkansas and I don't shop at Walmart. The internets and dollar general are my top choices.
 
2012-09-16 06:32:50 PM

Great Janitor: Yes, retail companies don't pay much, but that little bit is better than nothing at all. And if you don't like the low pay of retail, do something about it. Right after high school my best friend and I got jobs that paid minimum wage, and they sucked. He was fast food I was retail. Today I have the earning potential of $225/hour. Why??? Because I realized that when you're paid hourly, no matter how hard you work, at the end of the week, your paycheck is hourly wage times 40 minus benefits and taxes. And I was that guy who worked harder than my coworkers, so I was doing the dumb thing of working harder for the check that was just like everyone else's. So I went into commission work. It's nice to make more in two days than my parent's make all month.


So Carl taught you the finer points of the custodial arts? 

25.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-09-16 08:33:36 PM

IamSoSmart_S_M_R_T: Great Janitor: Yes, retail companies don't pay much, but that little bit is better than nothing at all. And if you don't like the low pay of retail, do something about it. Right after high school my best friend and I got jobs that paid minimum wage, and they sucked. He was fast food I was retail. Today I have the earning potential of $225/hour. Why??? Because I realized that when you're paid hourly, no matter how hard you work, at the end of the week, your paycheck is hourly wage times 40 minus benefits and taxes. And I was that guy who worked harder than my coworkers, so I was doing the dumb thing of working harder for the check that was just like everyone else's. So I went into commission work. It's nice to make more in two days than my parent's make all month.

So Carl taught you the finer points of the custodial arts? 

[25.media.tumblr.com image 500x281]


No, it was Stanley

img2-3.timeinc.net
 
2012-09-16 09:07:37 PM
As a resident of NYC,I say THANK GOODNESS.

See, New York city thrives, in part, because it has a whole bunch of smallholders. This is what small stores give you. Lots of small, individual decision makers at every level : end buyers, retailers, distributors, and manufacturers. Additionally, the large number of small stores means that supply is spread out, so by and large, I can get what I want within a 5 minute walk. For a specialty item I might have to go across town (3-7 subway stops) but for a price I can have almost everything delivered to my front door.

Walmart would devestate smallholders.

It doesn't do this by having more of what I want. It does this by having less.

How?

Well, we can divide the stock of most stores into three large categories:

First are the 'essentials'. For a convenience store here it's usually milk, eggs, butter, cigarettes, lotto and about a thousand varieties of soda or Ices Tea. For some places on the morning commute route, hot breakfast food or coffee may also be in here...

Next come the 'Medium demand' items. These are the items that you might buy once a week or every other week, but you consistently buy them locally because when you're in getting the 'essentials' you typically mentally check the list and then pick them up. Toilet paper, Cheap food for emergencies, newspapers and magazines. These items might be in a substantial variety tuned to the recurrent needs of the people who live directly around the shop.

The last and largest list are the 'occasional' items. These are the items the most people need once in a great while, or it might be the specialty of the shop. I know one shop that has a Selection of smoking equipment. These items tend to be few in number and at a high premium. The owner generally makes his 'extra' money on these items. The money that he could not make working for someone else. These items are in a sense supported by the other categories, and every time you buy milk you may pay an extra penny or two to support the specialty business of the shop. I've been to one shop where they have 8 types of grocery carts based on the type of building in which you live. Another has a specialization in Futons - They keep pictures out and you pick the one you want. They can even give you detailed advice about what futon you want based on your space.

Wal Mart comes through and offers everything in class 1 and one of every category in class 2. They do this at a much much lower price than the competition can do, and the competition collapses. They have Wal Marts at every border with the city. Screw 'em.
 
2012-09-16 09:16:17 PM

rubi_con_man: As a resident of NYC,I say THANK GOODNESS.

See, New York city thrives, in part, because it has a whole bunch of smallholders. This is what small stores give you. Lots of small, individual decision makers at every level : end buyers, retailers, distributors, and manufacturers. Additionally, the large number of small stores means that supply is spread out, so by and large, I can get what I want within a 5 minute walk. For a specialty item I might have to go across town (3-7 subway stops) but for a price I can have almost everything delivered to my front door.

Walmart would devestate smallholders.

[...]

The last and largest list are the 'occasional' items. These are the items the most people need once in a great while, or it might be the specialty of the shop. I know one shop that has a Selection of smoking equipment. These items tend to be few in number and at a high premium. The owner generally makes his 'extra' money on these items. The money that he could not make working for someone else. These items are in a sense supported by the other categories, and every time you buy milk you may pay an extra penny or two to s ...


I generally don't like your posts, but that's absolutely spot-on for NYC. It's one of the few places left in the country that has strange little shops devoted to really weird items you might only need once in a lifetime.

I was pondering -recently- the big box like Target and Wal Mart are different from the department stores of fifty or 100 years ago, and the conclusion I came to is that even today, with their much more limited stock, department stores have a selection of any item they carry, while Target only has one. And 100 years ago, when you could almost do all your shopping at Macy's or Wanamaker's, they still didn't carry everything, and some people just couldn't be bothered to go downtown for a new hat or orange juicer.
 
2012-09-16 09:58:09 PM

Dwight_Yeast: It's not that they don't pay them enough hourly. It's that they will hire two people to each work 20 hours/week instead of one at 40, as then they don't have to pay benefits, which is why the employees need Medicaid and food stamps.

You try living anywhere on the salary from a part-time job.



What's better.

One person working full time and one person fully on government support, or two people working part time partially supported by the government?

Personally, I would much rather two people have part time jobs than one person be fully unemployed.
 
2012-09-16 09:58:53 PM

Dwight_Yeast: I generally don't like your posts, but that's absolutely spot-on for NYC. It's one of the few places left in the country that has strange little shops devoted to really weird items you might only need once in a lifetime.

I was pondering -recently- the big box like Target and Wal Mart are different from the department stores of fifty or 100 years ago, and the conclusion I came to is that even today, with their much more limited stock, department stores have a selection of any item they carry, while Target only has one. And 100 years ago, when you could almost do all your shopping at Macy's or Wanamaker's, they still didn't carry everything, and some people just couldn't be bothered to go downtown for a new hat or orange juicer.


Thanks for keeping the open mind and still reading ...

FYI: If you read Jane Jacob's "Death and Life of great American Cities" you'll see that even in the early 1960s they were fighting the kind of "sorting out" of live into large homogenous sections that big-box stores represent. At that time, (there was no internet) large cities were the only place where some shops could operate. Stores that specialized in substantially uncommon merchandise needed to be in a city of several million in order to have enough of a market to keep their doors open. Jacobs forsees the day when the shop that sells that thing you only need once in every five years is not within 10 miles (like everything else in New York) but is hundreds of miles away.

Granted, we have the Internet now, but it has its own problem - that of discovery. Nothing beats the way that you can walk around a large city like NY and see something you've never seen before. While the internet has some of this (tubgirl.jpg) it's generally not the kind of thing where something strange and needless and exotic is presented : Google and Facebook and advertisers are constantly trying to figure out what you need. Since this is largely based on who you already are, there is very limited room for self-discovery and introduction of the radically new.
 
2012-09-16 10:18:15 PM

RogermcAllen: Personally, I would much rather two people have part time jobs than one person be fully unemployed.


Frankly, one person making a living wage and one person supported by the government is better as one of them stands a chance of getting out of poverty.

Two people, both working part-time means both are trapped.

I've worked in places where I've seen this first-hand.
 
2012-09-16 10:19:24 PM
I would never, and could never live in NYC, even if I could afford it. I went into a local grocery store in Manhattan while visiting a friend a few years ago...a regular box of Hot Pockets was over $5! (I've rarely seen them over $2.50 here in PA) Not only that, but the grocery store was a DUMP, but busy as hell because there was nowhere else to go nearby (except the Duane Reade in every other block). I highly doubt the workers in that store were getting $20 an hour, full benefits, vacation, etc. that people claim "small businesses" provide. Sure, Walmart will screw a bunch of "general merchandise" type businesses, but these are the type of stores that were already out of date 20 years ago anyway. (Although ShopRite's are pretty good grocery stores, so at least the community will get something acceptable).
 
2012-09-16 10:36:22 PM
Yeah, "mom ad pop shops" that charge more, PAY LESS and also dont offer benefits should be artificially kept afloat through government polices. The religion and devotion of the mom and pop shop is a joke. The only people making a decent living in those places are their kids. Give me the option of walmart any day. If those places that charge more and pay less employees less money can survive, fark em
 
2012-09-16 11:11:53 PM
Yes, retail companies don't pay much, but that little bit is better than nothing at all. And if you don't like the low pay of retail, do something about it.

The Walmart in our town Pays ~$8/hour. The Fred Meyers in our town has a union and pays ~$12/hour. Their prices are similar enough that Fred'd generally has more customers. A study found that if Walmart paid a livable wage, their prices would need to go up an average of $0.50 per customer (not per item, but for the whole sale). So yes, I do something about it - I shop at Fred's and refuse to go to Walmart.


What's better.
One person working full time and one person fully on government support, or two people working part time partially supported by the government?
Personally, I would much rather two people have part time jobs than one person be fully unemployed.


Actually one person working full time and getting benefits is less of a drag on taxpayers. When they both work 1/2 time the taxpayer has to foot the bill for food stamps and medical coverage for both rather than just the one.
 
2012-09-16 11:24:55 PM

SevenizGud: If anything, Wal-Mart pays too much. The only reason they should pay what they do is the stupid minimum wage law.

Gee, where will I EVER find someone intelligent enough to gather up the farker carts from the parking lot.

Seriously, that should be, like, 80 cents an hour or something.


WHOA We have our own carts at Walmart?
 
2012-09-16 11:25:29 PM

buzzcut73: moefuggenbrew: SevenizGud:

I hear that getting all the carts is actually VERY physically demanding work

Every Wal-Mart I've been to lately (which isn't many, I'll admit I only go once a month at most anymore) has one of these:
[www.gatekeepersystems.com image 200x203]
So retrieving the carts only requires one person, and it isn't much work at all.


My brother, who collect carts in the parking lot of a Wal-Mart, would probably like a word.

/he's lopsided now
//one arm well-muscled from pulling carts
 
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