Religion in the United States is like dealing with an on-edge retarded person. You have to listen to whatever their mind comes up with, but you discount it because you know their condition. And when they get out of line, you have to talk down to them because you know they simply don't inhabit a sphere that normal, rational people do. Seriously, it's gotten to the point where you have to basically stop taking these people seriously as adults and just treat them like they have a closed-head injury that basically makes them unable to comprehend the real world.

Only difference? Mentally disabled people know joy, more or less. Religious folk are just bitter, nasty, cruel, and dishonest.

Lsherm: Did anyone get stoned to death?

Then we're still ahead.

Vote Republican! We aren't stoning women to death yet.

No one ever suggests that men wear blindfolds. Wouldn't that be the personally responsible thing for someone who cannot control his lustful gaze?

Can't these grown men take responsibility? Why are they being treated like mentally deficient children?

Jim_Callahan: Ed Finnerty: But don't you dare say Rapeublicans are waging a war on women.

I would go out on a limb and say that this one isn't on the GOP.

FTA:

Values Voter Summit

Family Research Council

Modesty Matters

Yeah. Admittedly they're people that typically vote GOP, but this isn't a party position any more than the Black Panthers mostly voting democrat makes the Dems a racial supremacy organization.

When was the last time that the President taped a special speech for a meeting of the Black Panthers? When did Joe Biden go to speak before them? Have other key Democrats gone to big gatherings of Black Panthers? If not, then there might be a little difference between Black Panthers voting for Democrats and the highest levels of the Republican party showing up for a meeting of this summit.

Conservatives and their churches are the most sex-obsessed sons of biatches on the planet. Perhaps if they stopped worrying about everyone else's sex lives and did something about having a healthy one of their own they would stop lusting after every and anything and start feeding the poor, healing the sick, etc. etc.

Almost all guys look at a woman they find attractive. Only farking creeps stare lustfully. In church or at a mall. And these men won't be farking creeps because shoulders are covered? I can almost feel bad for a woman that chooses to be part of a religion that puts her at fault for mere human drives that they've corrupted to be evil. Almost.

Jim_Callahan: Ed Finnerty: But don't you dare say Rapeublicans are waging a war on women.

I would go out on a limb and say that this one isn't on the GOP.

FTA:

Values Voter Summit

Family Research Council

Modesty Matters

Yeah. Admittedly they're people that typically vote GOP, but this isn't a party position any more than the Black Panthers mostly voting democrat makes the Dems a racial supremacy organization.

Bullshiat. Mainstream Republicans have been pandering to this group of nuts for decades. They have been courting them like they were Helen of Troy.

But don't you dare say Rapeublicans are waging a war on women.

kukukupo: I agree with the church/mosque on this one.

Certain places should have standards, and in this day and age people seem to think they can wear thongs, sweat pants, and sleeveless T-shiats, etc anywhere they go. Show a little class.

I have no problem with specific churches or local organizations having dress codes for events, but forming national coalitions to try to influence national lawmakers to adopt that kind of micromanaging regulatory attitude gets you a big old 100% American go-fark-yourself made right here in the U.S.A.

The First Church of Christ the Wearer of Three-piece Suits doesn't get to tell the campus intramural disc golf and outdoor Christ worship club that they can't wear shorts while catching a frisbee for Jesus, is what I'm saying here.

//You can base your little club on whatever bullshiat you want, but you don't get to tell other people's clubs how to handle their own shiat.

The Crucible isn't a how-to guide!

They quote "The True Woman Manifesto" in the article and OMG you can read it online.
Link

It's not as bad as you might think. It's a whole lot worse than that. 

Serious Black: Considering how many of them say they would be evil bastards and wenches if it weren't for Christianity, yeah, we definitely would have stonings and lynchings if the law didn't prohibit it. I think that's why they're so against letting gays do stuff like marry, join the military, and even have butt sex. They're afraid that they'll start doing those things if they're legalized.

This.
I've had more than a handful of Christians in the South tell me "Well if you don't believe in God, why try to be good, there would be no such thing as good, why not just rape and kill if you can get away with it or do anything you want?"
The most "devout" (batshiat fundamentalist insane) Christians I've met usually have a pretty big history before they converted and were basically nihilists before breaking down and giving in to God because they couldn't handle their drug addictions or stay out of jail or get forgiveness anywhere but in the name of the Lord etc. etc.

Isn't... I don't know, isn't being lustful a good thing, from a Christian perspective? Doesn't it help people be fruitful and multiply? I dunno. Seems like they're all farked up, anyway. fark their bronze age myths.

Somacandra: FTFA: Republicans have repeatedly voted to cut funding for contraception, outlaw abortions, and defund Planned Parenthood. Now another far-right groups are eyeing a new battleground: the wardrobe.

Uh, one of these things is not like the others. Cutting funding and outlawing activities are official acts of the state. This is a private organization at a private conference expressing a cultural opinion that women should dress modestly. No, I don't agree with their apparent singling out of women, but just that's not the same thing as outlawing abortions defunding Planned Parenthood. This isn't Ministry for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice.

Yeah, a private conference featuring a ton of Republican speakers, including their VP nominee and the House Majority Leader. There's nothing at all political about this event, so we shouldn't comment on the people handing out pamphlets there.

Link

Lsherm: Did anyone get stoned to death?

Then we're still ahead.

If our laws allowed it, we would have stonings. No doubt about it.

The differences are subtle but I'm going with the burka because their mouths are covered too.

/zing

Martian_Astronomer: This is a very important distinction, because even those fundamentalists who view scantily-dressed women as inviting any and all sexual attention would not say that a Christian assaulting someone is justified.

Except they do say that. Just a little over a year ago, a pastor forced a rape victim to apologize to her church for getting raped and impregnated by a married man. She tempted him to sin. Not sure if her manner of dress was a factor or if it was just that she existed in the same physical space and he and he couldn't control himself as a result. So please don't tell me I'm misrepresenting their position on this when they ARE in fact saying, straight up, that women (and children, considering some of the statements put out by Roman Catholic Church officials regarding the child sex scandals) somehow prevent men's ability to not molest, rape, and sexually assault other people, and as in TFA are saying that what they wear is a factor that tempts men.

It's really too much to ask for modesty in dress and actions in a church? What is the argument against this?

All of you religion-bashers obviously have no place in a church, and wouldn't want to be in one.

Some people take their faith somewhat seriously. It's not an unreasonable request.

The only thing that gets me is that they're always asking WOMEN to be modest, even though clearly it should be expected of both sexes. Trust me, I'm Muslim, and it's infuriating sometimes.

See, this stuff originates from Bible verses like this:

But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. - Matthew 5:28-29

Both very religious and non-religious straight men will look at an attractive woman walking by and think "Damn, that's the kind of trunk space you want on a late-model car." In the instant following the glance, however, the non-religious dude with think "Hey, I should get out my phone and check my email," whereas the fundamentalist with think "OH NO! I've sinned against God and against by future wife by lusting after that harlot! I've let Jesus down again, and if I keep willfully violating God's commands like that I'm in danger of going to hell! Help me Jesus I'm so sorry I'm scum I'm bad I'm not worthy I'm so sorry forgive me forgive me......Whew. Hey, nice legs at 2 o'clock...Oh No!!"

It's not that fundamentalist guys think that it would ever be justified for them to harass/attack women who dress revealingly, (though they may still think that those skanky girls have it coming from guys less sanctified than themselves.) It's that the self-thought-policing nature of the religion makes any enjoyment of secondary sexual characteristics a grave sin, and since you're supposed to help your brothers in Christ avoid temptation, what good Christian woman wouldn't want to cover up to prevent men from stumbling? It is consistent, if nothing else.

Of course, regardless of the intentions, women wind up with repressive morality codes. Moreover, you can imagine the sort of severe mental issues that can be caused by a couple decades of thinking that boobs will send you to hell. 

/ Also, based on all the stories from Tampa, rank-and-file fundamentalists might believe this, but Republican leaders sure don't

Lenny_da_Hog: red5ish: They quote "The True Woman Manifesto" in the article and OMG you can read it online.
Link

It's not as bad as you might think. It's a whole lot worse than that.

Notice, it's all pics of WOMEN who signed it and promote it.

The Republican/fundie WOMEN are waging the war on women, because they're petty and competitive biatches.

They're a subset of a group called Life Action Ministries out of Michigan. They're "revivalists" and non-affiliated with any known denomination, although it wouldn't be difficult to classify them as crazy-ass bible thumpers and a personality cult.

It takes a very small man to blame his own deficiencies and lack of self control on women who are completely unaware and unconcerned with their existence.

I will never understand the argument that women are to blame for making a man have "impure" thoughts about them simply for the fact that they dare to be born women. It's like a poor person who robs someone's house and then claims that it was the home owners fault for daring to be richer than them. They simply couldn't control their urges to steal because that richer person had something they wanted. How absurd. 

On the other hand, I always wonder in situations like these involving social settings that are often times dominated by women if it's actually other women who are making these suggestions out of jealousy. It's been known to happen when they see their husbands staring at a woman hotter, younger, or thinner than them.

mediablitz: Lsherm: Did anyone get stoned to death?

Then we're still ahead.

If our laws allowed it, we would have stonings. No doubt about it.

Considering how many of them say they would be evil bastards and wenches if it weren't for Christianity, yeah, we definitely would have stonings and lynchings if the law didn't prohibit it. I think that's why they're so against letting gays do stuff like marry, join the military, and even have butt sex. They're afraid that they'll start doing those things if they're legalized.

My father was a minor pastor at a church in Hot Springs when I was really young. When the church found out mom was cheating on him they said he should divorce her, as it says in the bible. Then, when he got us in the divorce, they told him a single father isn't the image they wanted for the church, so they fired him. He left the church and lost his faith, fell back to drugs and compleatly messed up his life, and ours. I hate churches that want to "keep up an appearance". They damage the message of god and the bible.

Lenny_da_Hog: PillsHere: On the other hand, I always wonder in situations like these involving social settings that are often times dominated by women if it's actually other women who are making these suggestions out of jealousy. It's been known to happen when they see their husbands staring at a woman hotter, younger, or thinner than them.

Spend some time in a Southern Baptist church and you will wonder no longer. The women drive every bit of this bullshiat, from anti-abortion to anti-birth-control to anti-cleavage.

The sit around every Wednesday night biatching about the other women in their small communities in order to rise up the social ladder themselves. Everything they do is about social competition in those churches.

The amount of backstabbing, false information, sabotage, and double-talk that goes on in one baptist church puts all of Tom Clancy's work to shame.

Lsherm: Did anyone get stoned to death?

Then we're still ahead.

There's your bar, Conservatives: stay just one step ahead of the cultures you describe as savage, godless, and barbaric and you still get to feel superior to them in every way.

Rich Cream: [ironicsurrealism.com image 379x266][www.passionistnuns.org image 393x308]

The differences are subtle but I'm going with the burka because their mouths are covered too.

/zing

Via Vatican II, nuns really don't dress that way anymore.

Of course, Benedict is trying to unravel that and take away their autonomy and (gasp) dedication to (gasp) social justice and helping your fellow man over stupid effing dogma, but this is what nuns look like now:



I'm in my 20s, grew up Catholic, and have seen far, far, far more nuns dressed like that than in a habit. I can't even remember the last time I saw a nun in a habit at all, or anything like it, actually...

Egalitarian: BTW I'm a female atheist who wishes American women would dress with more modesty for their own self respect. When you walk around barely covered (unless it's a bikini at the beach) you leave nothing to the imagination, and it's like you're putting yourself out there like a piece of meat. "Hi men I'm desperate for attention!" Artful use of fabric (dressing) can actually make you look more aesthetically pleasing to everyone, try it out.

But I never tell anybody this cuz it's not really my business. I'm sure they think I am a dowdy prude for wearing long skirts or pants, instead of shorts that would make Daisy Duke blush.

You wear pants as a woman? What a slut.

/This topic is about a whole lot more than women simply showing skin.

shotglasss: mediablitz: Lsherm: Did anyone get stoned to death?

Then we're still ahead.

If our laws allowed it, we would have stonings. No doubt about it.

Some people deserve to be hit repeatedly with rocks until they're dead.

there's no hate like neocon hate

red5ish: They quote "The True Woman Manifesto" in the article and OMG you can read it online.
Link

It's not as bad as you might think. It's a whole lot worse than that.

Submit to men? Fark you. I am the equal of man and will submit to none.

I have an alternative option. Instead of taking away a woman's right to choose her own clothes, why don't we make it so that, in church, men have to wear shock collars? If the priests notice them staring lustfully, zap, problem solved. After all, men clearly are mentally incompetent, so someone really should keep the poor dears in line. In fact, I think evangelical Christianity should focus on making those poor, stupid, uncontrollable men the property of women, since only women can become mentally adultlike enough to have basic self-control.

pacmanner: That's the problem with these religious farks. carrying around all of that sexual frustration makes em crazy. Why do you think those farks in the mid east are so pissed off? They cover their women and even have to dance with each other at social events because touching a woman is like touching the devil. Sorry but any god that would dictate that women must be covered is a stupid god. Women are beautiful to behold and to deny that beauty is in itself a sin. Fark all religion.

Kome: It's amazing how insulting this attitude is towards women and men. Against women, it suggests that it is their fault whenever people make them uncomfortable or hurt them because of how they look. Against men, it suggests that we are so lacking in even minimal self-control that a little bit of cleavage can send us over the edge into lustful perverts and rapists.

How the hell any self-respecting person can claim to be religious is beyond me, when all it offers about the human condition is insult after insult. But then again, it isn't as though cognitive dissonance is an uncommon trait.

As a gay person that has been a personal target of fundamentalist Christians, as well as the general societal pressures generated by them, I get the anger bitterness and frustrations of many people here. But I would like to remind all those people "religion" for it, that not all religions, or practitioners of them, are the same.

I would really like to hear how these parts of religious literature are so insulting or women-hating:

"You shall be free from slavery, and as a sign that you be free you shall be naked in your rites.

Sing, feast, dance, make music and love, all in My Presence, for Mine is the ecstasy of the spirit and Mine also is joy on earth.

For My law is love is unto all beings......

Let My worship be in the heart that rejoices, for behold, all acts of love and pleasure are My rituals.

Let there be beauty and strength, power and compassion, honor and humility, mirth and reverence within you."

Charge of the Goddess

Oh, sure. Everyone mocks the religious for dress codes. But just try walking into a women's shelter as a man wearing a thong and a "Want some candy, little girl?" T-shirt, and see how soon the other sex's emotional reactions suddenly become sacrosanct.

Call it "triggering" or call it "immodesty", it works out to the same damn thing: put on some clothes appropriate to the social environment.

It's amazing how insulting this attitude is towards women and men. Against women, it suggests that it is their fault whenever people make them uncomfortable or hurt them because of how they look. Against men, it suggests that we are so lacking in even minimal self-control that a little bit of cleavage can send us over the edge into lustful perverts and rapists.

How the hell any self-respecting person can claim to be religious is beyond me, when all it offers about the human condition is insult after insult. But then again, it isn't as though cognitive dissonance is an uncommon trait.

DancingElkCondor: Christian churches, unlike Islamic mosques, actually allow women to attend services with men.

Only a DerpCon 5 Liberal whines about a Christian church having a "church dress code" for women....but says nothing about the rampant abuse of women in Islam. Hypocrites

I love this apologia: "We don't have the power in the west to get away with the fanaticism common in the middle east, so we haven't resumed stoning adulteresses or burning witches, yet".
Great defense, there, sparky.

BitwiseShift: It's all about teen agers.

What better way to exploit hormone overload than to make "thinking about sex" a near criminal act.


I am guessing I am in line for a life sentence.

Lee Jackson Beauregard: DancingElkCondor (farkied: Blithering idiot birther): Only a DerpCon 5bullschitt wingnut strawman version of a Liberal whines about a Christian church having a "church dress code" for women....but says nothing about the rampant abuse of women in Islam. Hypocrites

FTFY, or can you show me some examples of "DerpCon 5 Liberals" who "say nothing about the rampant abuse of women in Islam"?

Or is any criticism of Christians supposed to be followed by "but the Scary Mooselimbs blah blah blah"?

Or are we just not supposed to criticize Christians at all, except for the Scary Black Preacher?

Well you know how fragile and precious Christians are in this country. Even though they are the majority in the US, they still feel unfairly treated and persecuted donchaknow.

So, we finally find out why the 'conservative' christian tea party nutjob hates Muslims. They are jealous. They are upset that the Muslims live in a society ruled by religious fanaticism. They blame Muslims for being evil and what not, but they are pissed off because the Muslims have found some way of getting their people to follow the leaders blindly.

/it's the only explanation I can think of

I agree with the church/mosque on this one.

Certain places should have standards, and in this day and age people seem to think they can wear thongs, sweat pants, and sleeveless T-shiats, etc anywhere they go. Show a little class.

Didn't click on article but, I wholeheartldly support the idea of a wee bit more modesty. I'm not a man (nor am I fat before people come in and suggest that) but, I have seen more rear crack (on all figures, ages etc.), underwear (dirty or otherwise) and skin (in all all shapes, age groups) in the last few years then I really care to see in my lifetime.

Seriously, it can't hurt to cover up a bit--religious or not. A female hairy rear crack just isn't appealing. Period.

Examples of immodest dress at church needed. Actual examples preferred

Married my ex-wife in her very conservative church (Presbyterian, even though the Presbyterian church isn't particularly conservative by nature and is downright "liberal" in contrast to the Southern Baptist/Assembly of God churches that permeate the South), but this particular church was in Tulsa, the buckle of the bible belt. Three years later, the pastor was forced out for farking the church secretary. This being the same pastor who in mandatory pre-marriage counseling sessions had made certain he had pounded home the message of the sinfulness of not only actually having an affair, but even the lusting in your heart.

Had a good friend in law school who's father was a retired Methodist Minister. He had recently "come out of the closet" (not in the gay way, but in the agnostic/atheist way) and he related to me that part of his conversion from Christian to Atheist was that when he looked around and saw how easy it was for so many of the ministers/pastors he knew around him to break their vows, he had concluded that there was no way that they really believed what they were preaching. (He also mentioned that so many of his colleagues straight up confessed their disbelief, like the more exposure to the bible they had, the less and less they believed what it contained.) Very impressive guy, who also warned me about life in the "south" in Christian circles, - that if in the first five minutes of meeting someone, if they brought up the subject of Christianity and started talking about Christ, their church, their faith, etc. to put your hand on the wallet because they were about to either try to rip you off or talk you into giving them money. (this later proved to be amazingly prescient advice)

Fear.

Control.

Notabunny: Olympic Trolling Judge: Notabunny: red5ish: Link

fta When we respond humbly to male leadership in our homes and churches, we demonstrate a noble submission to authority that reflects Christ's submission to God His Father.

So we don't need the had cuff and duct tape, then?

You don't need it, necessarily, but if you feel that's where Christ is leading you, hey, go nuts.

YAY!

[img.photobucket.com image 800x600]

Those dolls look scared.

violetvolume: blah blah men are uncontrollable animals, women are lustful whores, whatever, we get it, ok, can we move on now?

Not according to the Republican Party. We are apparently stuck in the 15th century.

Modesty Matters, not Modest Matters. Jackasses, no matter how you spell it.

This is just damned silly. I'm a Republican, and I happen to be disdainful of the jackasses who hand out such rubbish. I think Modest Matters is an offshoot of the LDS, and I would ignore them. Hopefully, one day--after Romney loses--the GOP will unchain itself from the social conservatives.
/Can we, somehow, get Condi to run in 2016? Please? Pretty please?
//And I am not looking forward to four more years of Obama. It, however, seems inevitable.

Somacandra: The USA has had its share of extrajudicial killings. Stones not required. In fact, I don't think stonings have ever really been the American method. Americans seem to prefer rope for public spectacle killings.

Now we just have the police for that.

Guntram Shatterhand: Religious folk are just bitter, nasty, cruel, and dishonest.

That might be a bit of a generalization. I don't like much about organized religions either, but there are a number of deeply religious people that are very happy, content, nice, and honest.

/It's not dishonest to profess something that is incorrect or untrue, if you believe it to be true.

CreamFilling: ToxicMunkee: Can't these grown men take responsibility? Why are they being treated like mentally deficient children?

Yes, but is it really too much to ask that for two hours a week you don't dress like a skank?

I dunno about you, but to me, for the majority of Christian women, Sunday mornings are the sexiest they'll dress all week.

/And it ain't because their usual clothes don't reveal anything...

At this point I have to wonder if they're just trying to lose.

ToxicMunkee: Can't these grown men take responsibility? Why are they being treated like mentally deficient children?

Yes, but is it really too much to ask that for two hours a week you don't dress like a skank?

Every time a conservative troll posts, a woman has an abortion

They shouldn't even be at church. They should stay in the kitchen making my sammiches.