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(New York Daily News)   Parents complain after children are banned from Brooklyn beer garden after 4 p.m. "It pretty much means that they don't want us here with the kids"   (nydailynews.com) divider line 84
    More: Obvious, Diane Vasilakos  
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5587 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Sep 2012 at 8:53 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-09-15 09:22:23 PM  
10 votes:
I don't want to go drinking where there are kids because they shriek and run around which is not conducive to relaxing.
Parents develop a sort of mental filter that allows them to ignore the shrieking and running and they forget just how truly horrible and irritating it is. I tried to think of something funny to say about this but it isn't funny. Keep your kids out of adult settings, such as fine restaurants, non-matinee movie theaters, bars and yes, beer gardens. I, for my part, will refrain from drinking in the playgrounds and parks where your kids have priority. Deal?
2012-09-15 08:52:59 PM  
10 votes:

El_Perro: It was the teachers who complained, made noise, and caused the rule change.


Do you know why?

It's because if the students see the teachers acting like free citizens and having a few drinks, maybe even talking about work, and point them out to the parents, the parents will get on their high horse and be "We can't have these alcoholic monsters in with our precious kids! Cut their salaries! Kill them all!" then those same self important windbags go out to this beer garden, get plastered, and teach their precious little kids that DUI is only wrong when it's not daddy or mommy behind the wheel.

Teachers spend all day earning peanuts and dealing in a professional manner with children that most people would not spend any length of time with for all the money in the world. The last thing they need is to deal with the same kids AFTER work, too. You need those places to escape from work. And if a beer garden isn't the textbook example of a place they should discourage minors from patronizing I don't know what it.
2012-09-15 09:12:46 PM  
8 votes:
Kids should be banned from all public places after 4pm.
2012-09-15 06:33:49 PM  
8 votes:
"They are surrounded by children all day," said owner Diane Vasilakos, confirming that much of the disapproval came from educators. "They don't want to also see them here."

Several parents, in turn, claimed it's not the students that teachers are actually worried about.

"They don't want us to see them drink," said Yuna Weiss, a 44-year-old mother of four. "Some of them get very sloppy."


Gotta side with the teachers on this one. Buy a 12 pack, get your FOUR crotchfruit home and out of areas where adults should be able to relax, and do some parenting...or get drunk, whatever I don't really care.

But moms said they also deserve a place to park their strollers and throw down a couple of cold ones.

There's probably a T.G.I. Friday's down the street, go there. Hell I know some Chuck E. Cheeses sell beer, and you can unload your kids on other people who get paid to deal with it. Don't mess with the bars.

/I have no problem with parents drinking
//I have a problem with parents thinking their kids belong everywhere
2012-09-15 06:51:41 PM  
7 votes:
DING DING DING!

Keep your kids out of the freaking beer garden. You're a parent. Start acting like one.
2012-09-15 09:30:57 PM  
6 votes:

El_Perro: these parents have a point - they've lost their place to go socialize.


Yeah. But things change.

Plus, the place IS family friendly. Just not after 4. Used to be 7. Still a nice lunch option.

I would have a little more sympathy, but teachers get too much shiat from parents. Not wearing a condom is not some grand accomplishment. Anyone without a medical problem and many people with one are capable of sexual reproduction. If you're not able to spend 24/7 raising the result of that sexual reproduction, and let's face it no one is, eventually you'll have to trust the child to someone else.

That person is also a human. They like to drink, smoke, curse, and fart loudly as the punchline to the joke about the monkey and the rabbi in Mecca. Unlike all other professions, however, teachers catch holy hell if they're seen acting like humans outside of work. Basically we have the same constraints as diplomats, but without the marine security or the pay checks and immunity.

When parents rise up and shout down the soccer moms and vote to raise teacher salaries and tell their kids to study harder instead of blaming the teacher when tests are bombed... when this happens maybe I'll upgrade to the world's second smallest violin for the parents who lost one of an infinite number of potential restaurant options.
2012-09-15 09:18:30 PM  
6 votes:
These parents are denying their children a Right of Passage we all once enjoyed. Bars and taverns used to be places with no windows in the door and nifty neon signs on the windows that we kids could only appreciate from afar. "One day," we'd tell ourselves, "One day THIS will be mine!"

Then, when we turned 21 (or 19 in my case), those wooden doors swung wide and I reveled in my passage to adulthood. Before me lay years and years of liquor, beer, wine and women. I had "made it".

These parents are denying their children this joy. They are forcing their young children into premature adulthood. They are just as foul, stupid and selfish as those beauty contest Moms. Parents: let your kids be kids and let adults enjoy adult things. OK? Thanks.
2012-09-15 09:00:14 PM  
6 votes:
I don't get it. Why isn't Child Protective Services at the door taking kids away from parents who take their kids to a bar?
2012-09-15 06:51:57 PM  
6 votes:
Children ought to be banned from a beer garden on principle.
2012-09-15 06:25:48 PM  
6 votes:
NO shiat YOU ALKIES!

UNLESS YOUR "KIDS" ARE OLD ENOUGH TO DRINK, GO HOME!
2012-09-15 10:11:39 PM  
5 votes:
So, why is it that the teachers' reasonable request is perceived as such, but the parents' reasonable request is perceived as the "Mommy Mafia"?

The teachers have just spent 8 hours educating/raising with your snowflakes. You get them back and the first thing you want to do is take them to a bar and get drunk rather than spending some time talking and being a parent to them. You have no space to complain. Also, the parents that are most offended by teachers drinking in public are likely to be the ones who get smashed in front of their kids. Never get drunk in front of your kids - they lose respect for you.
2012-09-15 09:38:54 PM  
5 votes:

El_Perro: Why are the teachers reasonable for complaining, but now that the situation is reversed, the parents are "ninnies" for making their own wishes known?


I'm a stripper. I have a kid. I'll just take him to work with me, set him up at a back table with some juice. Acceptable?

I like cigars. I like my kid. I'll just go to the cigar bar with my kid, maybe give him an unlit stogie. Aw, look at that, he's just like Winston Churchill. Acceptable?

I'm a doctor. I have to do an operation. I'll just sterilize my kid and set him down in the corner of the OR during your surgery. Acceptable?

Do you not see the part where some things are just not appropriate for children, even if you are a parent? The fact that kids get in until 4pm makes the place family friendly. After that it's happy hour. If your kid can't order a beer for themselves, they're too young to be in there.
2012-09-15 09:27:19 PM  
5 votes:
Lets be honest here, How many of you read the fark headline and said to yourself, "No shiat sherlock!"
or something very, very similar?
2012-09-15 10:38:59 PM  
4 votes:
WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO GETTING A BABYSITTER?!?!?!?

Also why does anybody need to be boozing it up at 4PM?
2012-09-15 09:58:22 PM  
4 votes:

El_Perro: Your analogies are complete horseshiat. None of those places have ever purported to be appropriate for kids, at any time. Until last week, this place did (and still does, until 4pm). If 4pm is reasonable, why isn't 7pm?


More people are out of work between 5 and 7pm and would prefer a child-free hangout.
2012-09-15 09:33:54 PM  
4 votes:

El_Perro: The My Little Pony Killer: El_Perro: doglover: El_Perro: It was the teachers who complained, made noise, and caused the rule change.

Do you know why?

It's because if the students see the teachers acting like free citizens and having a few drinks, maybe even talking about work, and point them out to the parents, the parents will get on their high horse and be "We can't have these alcoholic monsters in with our precious kids! Cut their salaries! Kill them all!" then those same self important windbags go out to this beer garden, get plastered, and teach their precious little kids that DUI is only wrong when it's not daddy or mommy behind the wheel.

Teachers spend all day earning peanuts and dealing in a professional manner with children that most people would not spend any length of time with for all the money in the world. The last thing they need is to deal with the same kids AFTER work, too. You need those places to escape from work. And if a beer garden isn't the textbook example of a place they should discourage minors from patronizing I don't know what it.


I agree, of course they need those places to escape from work. At the same time, parents also need places to socialize and, yes, have a drink or two. This place explicitly advertised itself (and continues to advertise itself) as "family friendly." There are other places in the area that do not (Double Windsor and Farrell's both come to mind, as do plenty of places over in Park Slope itself).

If the situation had been reversed and the stroller crowd had gotten the place to change it's rules to allow parents to bring kids, the teachers would have been justifiably upset about the rule change, and upset that they had lost a place to escape from work. My point is simply that, given the rules that were in place (and, again, the advertising as "family friendly"), these parents have a point - they've lost their place to go socialize.

So do your drinking and socializing before 4pm, and then leave so that the teac ...


The parents have all day to do their drinking and socializing. The teachers have spent their days working, around many children, and would be up all freaking night with the 3 hour wait for the parents to finish up and take their broods home. The teachers have greater restrictions with how they spend the time in their days. The parents do not, ergo, the parents are ninnies.
2012-09-15 09:17:05 PM  
4 votes:

El_Perro: doglover: El_Perro: It was the teachers who complained, made noise, and caused the rule change.

Do you know why?

It's because if the students see the teachers acting like free citizens and having a few drinks, maybe even talking about work, and point them out to the parents, the parents will get on their high horse and be "We can't have these alcoholic monsters in with our precious kids! Cut their salaries! Kill them all!" then those same self important windbags go out to this beer garden, get plastered, and teach their precious little kids that DUI is only wrong when it's not daddy or mommy behind the wheel.

Teachers spend all day earning peanuts and dealing in a professional manner with children that most people would not spend any length of time with for all the money in the world. The last thing they need is to deal with the same kids AFTER work, too. You need those places to escape from work. And if a beer garden isn't the textbook example of a place they should discourage minors from patronizing I don't know what it.


I agree, of course they need those places to escape from work. At the same time, parents also need places to socialize and, yes, have a drink or two. This place explicitly advertised itself (and continues to advertise itself) as "family friendly." There are other places in the area that do not (Double Windsor and Farrell's both come to mind, as do plenty of places over in Park Slope itself).

If the situation had been reversed and the stroller crowd had gotten the place to change it's rules to allow parents to bring kids, the teachers would have been justifiably upset about the rule change, and upset that they had lost a place to escape from work. My point is simply that, given the rules that were in place (and, again, the advertising as "family friendly"), these parents have a point - they've lost their place to go socialize.


The difference is they aren't banning any real customers. All parents have to do is HIRE A BABYSITTER. If they can afford to drink at a bar, they can hire a babysitter for an hour or two.
2012-09-15 09:15:23 PM  
4 votes:
If you want to go boozing with your girlfriends, then learn to swallow or enjoy anal. It's bad enough listening to idiot 21 year olds, I don't want to listen to your farking 12 year old running around my table.
2012-09-15 06:57:53 PM  
4 votes:

scottydoesntknow: I have a problem with parents thinking their kids belong everywhere


This.

As a teacher, I need places I can go and not run the risk of bumping into anyone younger than 20 or so. If there's kids running around, it prevents relaxation and unless the parents are gonna comp my whole night I really must insist they lose the brood.
2012-09-15 11:12:43 PM  
3 votes:
I hate the "new" parenting whereby it's OK to get tipsy with your kids in tow, cheat on your spouse, and name your kids and dog(s) retarded things. Get the fark out of my bar and go back to buying artisan pantyliners for use in MoMa exhibits or whatever the fark the rest of the tight-pants no-practical-skills set pays you to do.
2012-09-15 10:52:27 PM  
3 votes:
The teachers from Park Slope and Sunset Park who go there after work on Friday will ring up a tab in the hundreds of dollars. The parents who are complaining were going to spend a total of
$6 on one beer -- can't be too drunk in front of the kid -- and their kid would stay in the bocce lane all afternoon so no one could play.

The business made the right choice in accommodating the teachers.
2012-09-15 10:16:18 PM  
3 votes:

El_Perro: Your analogies are complete horseshiat. None of those places have ever purported to be appropriate for kids, at any time. Until last week, this place did (and still does, until 4pm). If 4pm is reasonable, why isn't 7pm?


Because the owners of the establishment said so. Leading me to believe the parents were not keeping an eye on the kiddies or why would people start complaining in the first place? If the kids were quietly at their table, would anyone notice them?? Prolly not.
2012-09-15 10:12:21 PM  
3 votes:

El_Perro: cameroncrazy1984: El_Perro: Your analogies are complete horseshiat. None of those places have ever purported to be appropriate for kids, at any time. Until last week, this place did (and still does, until 4pm). If 4pm is reasonable, why isn't 7pm?

More people are out of work between 5 and 7pm and would prefer a child-free hangout.

By the same token, many parents are out of work between 5 and 7pm, and may want to grab a drink after work themselves.

I'm not saying these teachers don't have a reasonable point. Just that the parents have a reasonable point also.


Great. Leave the kids at home and drink to your heart's content. Win/win.
2012-09-15 10:11:49 PM  
3 votes:

Spaghettiows: As a child of the late 60s and early 70s, back then it was not uncommon for parents to bring their kids to the neighborhood taverns, as long as it was before about 8:00 PM. But the kids were expected to behave if the parent wanted to remain welcome at the establishment.


Back when a stranger could help keep a child in line without being arrested or ending up on some registry.
2012-09-15 09:44:20 PM  
3 votes:

doglover: It's because if the students see the teachers acting like free citizens and having a few drinks, maybe even talking about work, and point them out to the parents, the parents will get on their high horse and be "We can't have these alcoholic monsters in with our precious kids! Cut their salaries! Kill them all!" then those same self important windbags go out to this beer garden, get plastered, and teach their precious little kids that DUI is only wrong when it's not daddy or mommy behind the wheel.


Came here to say this.

There is a double standard for teachers. They have to be professional while on and off the clock. Some parents get very upset when they find out that their child's teacher isn't perfect. Drinking in public in front of students is just one example.

In a better world, school administrators would tell the parents that their complaints have no merit. Unfortunately, some administrators just want to make the problem disappear. It is sometimes easier to replace a teacher than it is to deal with some parents, especially if those parents hold some sort of political clout. Teachers shouldn't be forced to always live life second guessing their actions.

Nobody seems to bat an eye at the number of kid themed restaurants. It would be nice to have some non-seedy places for adults, too. As for the start time of the restriction, remember that some people get off of work early.
2012-09-15 09:27:21 PM  
3 votes:

El_Perro: scottydoesntknow: El_Perro: scottydoesntknow: I'm sorry they won't let you bring your crotch fruit there any more. What about Applebees? I hear that place has a bar.


I could care less about this place, or about who they let in or don't let in (though, it'd be nice if they kept the Staten Island crowd away from the area). I'm just saying that if you're going to criticize people for being pushy about stuff like this, you should at least be consistent about it.

I am being consistent. I have yet to say the parents are right or deserve to have their kids there. The teachers deserve to have a place to drink and relax and not be surrounded by children. That's an extremely reasonable request, especially for a bar. They aren't denying the parents the privilege to drink. Just don't bring your kids in there with you.

Of course the teachers are reasonable for wanting a place to go without being surrounded by children. But the parents are also reasonable for wanting a place to go have some food and a drink or two, even if they can't unload their kids for the afternoon, as this place was initially advertised (e.g., as a "family friendly" bar/restaurant, which allows the under-21 crowd until 7pm). This is not a situation where one side is "right" and one is "wrong" - it's a situation where both sides are dealing with scarce resources, so to speak (there really aren't that many places for anyone to go around this place), and both sides have reasonable requests. So, why is it that the teachers' reasonable request is perceived as such, but the parents' reasonable request is perceived as the "Mommy Mafia"?


Because they are completely unwilling to accept that they are still allowed to bring their children to the pub with them, so long as they are finished with their business there prior to 4pm.
2012-09-15 09:13:17 PM  
3 votes:
Beer gardens are a German idea. Do Germans allow children in beer gardens? Did they ever?

/then again, they probably don't have Brooklyn children to deal with
//or Brooklyn parents
2012-09-15 09:01:02 PM  
3 votes:

El_Perro: scottydoesntknow: I'm sorry they won't let you bring your crotch fruit there any more. What about Applebees? I hear that place has a bar.


I could care less about this place, or about who they let in or don't let in (though, it'd be nice if they kept the Staten Island crowd away from the area). I'm just saying that if you're going to criticize people for being pushy about stuff like this, you should at least be consistent about it.


I am being consistent. I have yet to say the parents are right or deserve to have their kids there. The teachers deserve to have a place to drink and relax and not be surrounded by children. That's an extremely reasonable request, especially for a bar. They aren't denying the parents the privilege to drink. Just don't bring your kids in there with you.
2012-09-15 08:20:49 PM  
3 votes:

El_Perro: This isn't a question of parents thinking their kids belong everywhere, or agitating to get their kids allowed someplace they're not. This place advertised itself (and still advertises itself) as "family friendly," and originally was limited to 21+ only after 7pm. It was the teachers who complained, made noise, and caused the rule change. If you're going to criticize parents for being pushy about places allowing them to bring their kids, you should at least be consistent and criticize the teachers for being pushy about not allowing kids.

Oh, and there's not a TGI Friday's, Chuck E. Cheese, or much of anything else around this place. Still mostly a residential neighborhood.


I'm sorry they won't let you bring your crotch fruit there any more. What about Applebees? I hear that place has a bar.
2012-09-15 07:55:38 PM  
3 votes:
Entitled white people problems.

Just because YOU love your children doesn't mean the rest of us are going to love them too. When the boyfriend and I go out to locales that aren't necessarily kid-friendly, and we see parents who have dragged younger kids there (under 10).....I wonder what the fark these people are thinking. My dad likes to have a beer or two, but when my sister and I were younger, he would have cut off his own head rather than take us with him to a bar, or a beer garden, or some other place like that.

Jesus H. Christ in a chicken basket, you snooty coont.
2012-09-15 06:37:52 PM  
3 votes:
Yes, that's exactly what it means.
2012-09-15 06:29:32 PM  
3 votes:
Never, ever, ever underestimate the Park Slope Mommy Mafia.
2012-09-16 04:54:52 AM  
2 votes:
If you can't afford or arrange child care, stay the hell home. Little kids don't belong in bars, they don't belong in movie theaters watchign movies not made for kids, they do not belong in nice resteraunts after the lunch hour.

Dear young stupid parents;

Your life has changed. No babysitter = no party, no evening out with friends, no drinkng. Deal with it. Your kidless and single friends don't want your kids there. They probably don't want you there anymore, to be honest.

Sincerely,

The world.
2012-09-15 11:17:56 PM  
2 votes:

Mock26: Teachers could have one somewhere less kid friendly.
The parents can go somewhere more kid friendly.
The owners could have told the teachers to fark off.

Like I said in a previous post, assholes all around on this one.

Several parents, in turn, claimed it's not the students that teachers are actually worried about.

"They don't want us to see them drink," said Yuna Weiss, a 44-year-old mother of four. "Some of them get very sloppy."


I think we found the asshole here. Why would you bring up the fact that teachers are getting sloppy drunk during their off time? I think part of these new hours had to do with busy body parents going back and reporting that their kids teachers are out drinking after work and the teachers in return told the bar owner that they would take their business elsewhere if something wasn't done about these people. And the free market prevailed as the owner obviously valued the patronage of the teachers more. But I'm also sure that other people got tired of kids running around and parents complaining about them having adult conversation, in a place where you have adult conversation, with kids around.
2012-09-15 11:17:39 PM  
2 votes:
one or two kids in a bar doesnt really bother me if they are well behaved and just sit on there hands and dont speak unless they are spoken to,but you fill the room with multiple kids and moms who would kill to protect thier kids from any unknown or ununderstood problem is too much for any time of the day. id simply prefer people ddnt take thier kids any place where people like to unwind after a hard days toil. and it really doesnt seem too responsible for mommy to be slamming tequila when she's gonna have to strap the kiddos into the minivan and hit the highway. dont hate kids,dont have any but i like em in the right circumstances. just not in a bar at happy hour times. mommies,just take your kids home and put a little vodak in your iced tea. heck,have mommie partys at your own home and drink all you like. i gotta say though,the owners set themselves up for this one.
2012-09-15 10:51:45 PM  
2 votes:
OK I can see the teachers needing to drink at 4PM but these parents, stay the fark out.

When you became parents you signed up for giving up a lot of adult fun stuff until the kids go to college. Grow up. Do not take your young kids to bars or rated R movies or expensive restaurants.
2012-09-15 10:29:33 PM  
2 votes:

TheGreenMonkey: Used to take my kid to a local pub after work quite frequently. Of course she was just a baby, prob stopped when she was about 4-5 or so and that was because the little shiat was mobile and I don't want her getting trampled by all the drunks in the place. Including me.

That being said 4pm seems a bit early and I think 8pm would be a better cut off time. Don't much care if there are teachers or other professions around, I've never asked anyone to do something I wouldn't do and yhat's keep you farking kids in check and don't let them wander around underfoot.


Yeah, but think of how people like to go out after work, then think of what time teachers get off and when they have to be in. If I were in a profession that got off between 2-4 PM and couldn't be seen drinking around children, I'd want a place too.
2012-09-15 10:15:10 PM  
2 votes:

raanne: The My Little Pony Killer: Parents. No time restrictions.

because once you have kids you never work? Since when does having a kid take away time restrictions from your life?


Somebody who can put in the time and effort to complain so loudly about not being able to take their children with them everywhere they go probably don't have a whole lot going on in their professional lives, for obvious reasons.
2012-09-15 10:11:26 PM  
2 votes:

El_Perro: Except that the place initially allowed kids until 7pm (and, incidentally, the place hasn't changed its website, which still lists the 7pm time, not 4pm). That made the place family friendly until 7pm.

Your analogies are complete horseshiat. None of those places have ever purported to be appropriate for kids, at any time. Until last week, this place did (and still does, until 4pm). If 4pm is reasonable, why isn't 7pm?


Teachers. Time restrictions.

Parents. No time restrictions.
2012-09-15 10:10:32 PM  
2 votes:
"I'm looking at these 21-year-olds," said Alex Phillips, 36, whose daughter Madeleine, 2, rested by her side. "Wait until you have kids and want a drink."

I may only be 22, but I'm fairly certain I want to drink more right now than I ever will in later life.

/also, way to assume we all want kids
2012-09-15 10:09:17 PM  
2 votes:

El_Perro: Once again, by the same token, you could say that the teachers were completely unwilling to accept that they were still allowed to drink at this place, without children present, so long as they arrived after 7pm.


Yes, if you would like to continue to ignore the fact that teachers have restrictions with how they can spend the time in their days that parents do not, that idea does work. However, you can't simply ignore the fact that teachers do, in fact, have said time restrictions, yet here you are.

/you can't always get what you want
//deal with it
2012-09-15 10:07:09 PM  
2 votes:

scottydoesntknow: "They are surrounded by children all day," said owner Diane Vasilakos, confirming that much of the disapproval came from educators. "They don't want to also see them here."

Several parents, in turn, claimed it's not the students that teachers are actually worried about.

"They don't want us to see them drink," said Yuna Weiss, a 44-year-old mother of four. "Some of them get very sloppy."

Gotta side with the teachers on this one. Buy a 12 pack, get your FOUR crotchfruit home and out of areas where adults should be able to relax, and do some parenting...or get drunk, whatever I don't really care.

But moms said they also deserve a place to park their strollers and throw down a couple of cold ones.

There's probably a T.G.I. Friday's down the street, go there. Hell I know some Chuck E. Cheeses sell beer, and you can unload your kids on other people who get paid to deal with it. Don't mess with the bars.

/I have no problem with parents drinking
//I have a problem with parents thinking their kids belong everywhere


Sorry, there are plenty of bars out there that are totally appropriate for parents and kids, just because you have a stick up your ass, it doesn't mean that you set the rules.

4pm is pretty early, too, but it IS the bar's choice. These people shouldn't have aproblem taking their business elsewhere.
2012-09-15 10:04:26 PM  
2 votes:
"I'm looking at these 21-year-olds," said Alex Phillips, 36, whose daughter Madeleine, 2, rested by her side. "Wait until you have kids and want a drink."

You're not 21 anymore. Or you're this person:

s3.amazonaws.com
2012-09-15 09:58:42 PM  
2 votes:

Witness99: I can't imagine why anyone would choose teaching as a career


Teaching kids is like a hit off a crack pipe. That face they make when you've just flipped the switch from "Derp." to "Aha!" is good. And mostly the teaching parts are nice. You get to talk about what you're passionate about every single day. It's like your own little talk show with a dedicated audience.

The problem with teaching isn't the kids, or the job itself. It's that more than all the other jobs, teaching has to deal with back seat drivers.

If I were in the states, I would never try teaching. No way. Here it accounts for half my income and since I'm essentially a second class citizen, the stress level is super low from the actual school side of things. I don't have to stay late or go to the family homes and meet the parents. As it is, I'm still often trying my hands at things to try and get non-teaching side jobs going and leave it off entirely. Even the easiest just put too much pressure on you to have decent life. If it's not straight up stress, it's financial.
2012-09-15 09:48:07 PM  
2 votes:

scottydoesntknow: //I have a problem with parents thinking their kids belong everywhere

2012-09-15 09:10:45 PM  
2 votes:

El_Perro: scottydoesntknow: "They are surrounded by children all day," said owner Diane Vasilakos, confirming that much of the disapproval came from educators. "They don't want to also see them here."

Several parents, in turn, claimed it's not the students that teachers are actually worried about.

"They don't want us to see them drink," said Yuna Weiss, a 44-year-old mother of four. "Some of them get very sloppy."

Gotta side with the teachers on this one. Buy a 12 pack, get your FOUR crotchfruit home and out of areas where adults should be able to relax, and do some parenting...or get drunk, whatever I don't really care.

But moms said they also deserve a place to park their strollers and throw down a couple of cold ones.

There's probably a T.G.I. Friday's down the street, go there. Hell I know some Chuck E. Cheeses sell beer, and you can unload your kids on other people who get paid to deal with it. Don't mess with the bars.

/I have no problem with parents drinking
//I have a problem with parents thinking their kids belong everywhere

This isn't a question of parents thinking their kids belong everywhere, or agitating to get their kids allowed someplace they're not. This place advertised itself (and still advertises itself) as "family friendly," and originally was limited to 21+ only after 7pm. It was the teachers who complained, made noise, and caused the rule change. If you're going to criticize parents for being pushy about places allowing them to bring their kids, you should at least be consistent and criticize the teachers for being pushy about not allowing kids.

Oh, and there's not a TGI Friday's, Chuck E. Cheese, or much of anything else around this place. Still mostly a residential neighborhood.


I've seen way too many stories about teachers receiving shiat for drinking in public and being seen my students (schools saying they have to be perfectly professional 24/7 because it reflects on the school, etc) to be sympathetic.

Until people accept that teachers are human and everyone can agree their life outside of school is irrelevant, let them drink in peace and privacy.
2012-09-15 09:09:37 PM  
2 votes:
Out here in California and Arizona, crotchfruit aren't allowed in bars.
2012-09-15 07:00:30 PM  
2 votes:

scottydoesntknow:
/I have no problem with parents drinking
//I have a problem with parents thinking their kids belong everywhere


[flashing red neon] THIS THIS THIS THIS [/flashing red neon] 

I live in Honolulu. There is no law here against having children, even infants, in bars. It's so farking obnoxious.
2012-09-15 06:52:00 PM  
2 votes:

CreamFilling: Someone is perceptive. Just like when my cable company sends me a bill, it pretty much means they want money.


Or like when I got fired from my job back in April, which pretty much meant that I wasn't allowed to show up there and do work in exchange for money anymore.
2012-09-15 06:32:36 PM  
2 votes:
"I CAN'T GET DAY DRUNK WITH MY TODDLER IN PUBLIC AND I AM OUTRAGED!"
2012-09-16 03:56:15 PM  
1 votes:

El_Perro: doglover: El_Perro: Why are the teachers reasonable for complaining, but now that the situation is reversed, the parents are "ninnies" for making their own wishes known?

I'm a stripper. I have a kid. I'll just take him to work with me, set him up at a back table with some juice. Acceptable?

I like cigars. I like my kid. I'll just go to the cigar bar with my kid, maybe give him an unlit stogie. Aw, look at that, he's just like Winston Churchill. Acceptable?

I'm a doctor. I have to do an operation. I'll just sterilize my kid and set him down in the corner of the OR during your surgery. Acceptable?

Do you not see the part where some things are just not appropriate for children, even if you are a parent? The fact that kids get in until 4pm makes the place family friendly. After that it's happy hour. If your kid can't order a beer for themselves, they're too young to be in there.

Except that the place initially allowed kids until 7pm (and, incidentally, the place hasn't changed its website, which still lists the 7pm time, not 4pm). That made the place family friendly until 7pm.

Your analogies are complete horseshiat. None of those places have ever purported to be appropriate for kids, at any time. Until last week, this place did (and still does, until 4pm). If 4pm is reasonable, why isn't 7pm?


That's simple, because management changed their mind, and decide that they wanted the kids out at 4P.M.
2012-09-16 06:59:59 AM  
1 votes:

Bullseyed: I don't get it. Why isn't Child Protective Services at the door taking kids away from parents who take their kids to a bar?



Some of the parents are women.
2012-09-16 02:39:09 AM  
1 votes:

El_Perro: doglover: El_Perro: It was the teachers who complained, made noise, and caused the rule change.

Do you know why?

It's because if the students see the teachers acting like free citizens and having a few drinks, maybe even talking about work, and point them out to the parents, the parents will get on their high horse and be "We can't have these alcoholic monsters in with our precious kids! Cut their salaries! Kill them all!" then those same self important windbags go out to this beer garden, get plastered, and teach their precious little kids that DUI is only wrong when it's not daddy or mommy behind the wheel.

Teachers spend all day earning peanuts and dealing in a professional manner with children that most people would not spend any length of time with for all the money in the world. The last thing they need is to deal with the same kids AFTER work, too. You need those places to escape from work. And if a beer garden isn't the textbook example of a place they should discourage minors from patronizing I don't know what it.


I agree, of course they need those places to escape from work. At the same time, parents also need places to socialize and, yes, have a drink or two. This place explicitly advertised itself (and continues to advertise itself) as "family friendly." There are other places in the area that do not (Double Windsor and Farrell's both come to mind, as do plenty of places over in Park Slope itself).

If the situation had been reversed and the stroller crowd had gotten the place to change it's rules to allow parents to bring kids, the teachers would have been justifiably upset about the rule change, and upset that they had lost a place to escape from work. My point is simply that, given the rules that were in place (and, again, the advertising as "family friendly"), these parents have a point - they've lost their place to go socialize.


It is a private establishment. They chose which customer they value. Don't like it, vote with your dollars. End of story.
2012-09-16 02:29:12 AM  
1 votes:
"Kids allowed until 7" was beer garden advertising, not a suicide pact. Now it seems the beer garden has changed their rules. Big deal.
Bye kids, GTFO at 4.

"Four is too early for sure," she said. "It pretty much means that they don't want us here with the kids."
You got it coont! GTFO.

Once at a bar, I like to smoke and tell loud dirty jokes with lots of coarse language. I care not if your kids hear, they shouldn't be at the bar in the first place. Them learning some new words is punishment for you being a shiatty parent.
2012-09-16 02:18:45 AM  
1 votes:

kidsizedcoffin: TheGreenMonkey: Used to take my kid to a local pub after work quite frequently. Of course she was just a baby, prob stopped when she was about 4-5 or so and that was because the little shiat was mobile and I don't want her getting trampled by all the drunks in the place. Including me.

That being said 4pm seems a bit early and I think 8pm would be a better cut off time. Don't much care if there are teachers or other professions around, I've never asked anyone to do something I wouldn't do and yhat's keep you farking kids in check and don't let them wander around underfoot.

Yeah, but think of how people like to go out after work, then think of what time teachers get off and when they have to be in. If I were in a profession that got off between 2-4 PM and couldn't be seen drinking around children, I'd want a place too.


Point taken, 4pm might just be a good cutoff time for this place. I guess the real problem is that as a society we tend to hold teachers to a higher standard than the rest of humanity. Not really sure why though, they're just normal people like the rest of us. For the most part anyway.

I've partied with some great teachers in the past, but has mostly been after hours or at private functions. Most of them I have been with would be freaked out at having the kids they teach in the same bar, but then they would also not really care so much as long as the parents weren't being idiotic about the situation.
2012-09-16 01:34:08 AM  
1 votes:

MadAzza: CitizenTed: These parents are denying their children a Right of Passage we all once enjoyed. Bars and taverns used to be places with no windows in the door and nifty neon signs on the windows that we kids could only appreciate from afar. "One day," we'd tell ourselves, "One day THIS will be mine!"

Then, when we turned 21 (or 19 in my case), those wooden doors swung wide and I reveled in my passage to adulthood. Before me lay years and years of liquor, beer, wine and women. I had "made it".

These parents are denying their children this joy. They are forcing their young children into premature adulthood. They are just as foul, stupid and selfish as those beauty contest Moms. Parents: let your kids be kids and let adults enjoy adult things. OK? Thanks.

This is the smartest thing you've ever written here, as far as I can tell. And it's exactly how I feel. That mystery I felt when I was a kid, about what was in that dark room off the main restaurant dining room ... kids no longer feel that. There's no discovery, nothing to look forward to.

And no place for the rest of us, as adults, to get away from them.


Truth.

Also, the same goes for porn. When I was a..ahem, developing young man, boobs were difficult to come by. You had to work for it. Kids today have access to all sorts of crap online. I'm not sure what the cutoff age is for easy access to internet porn, but I know that didn't come around until I was in my early 20s.
2012-09-16 12:52:54 AM  
1 votes:
I'm not a bar owner, but as a bar patron I can only imagine the amount of money they will rake in during happy hour from an adults only atmosphere will far exceed the amount of money they would get during that time if kids were allowed in. I go to happy hours sometimes and there's a distinct difference in the atmosphere between the bars that don't let in children and the breweries that do. (I'm actually not certain why bars can't allow in those under 21, but breweries can despite both serving food, but either way it's nice.) I don't know what it is, but there's just a more relaxed and fun atmosphere in the bars whereas in the breweries it feels more chaotic because there are kids running around and/or screaming. And for some reason the parents think because it's a more casual atmosphere that it's okay for their kids to go wild.

Last night at a brewery I watched a little girl take up a whole table by herself at 9pm. She kept dropping the place settings on the floor and picking them up (I feel bad for whoever used that silverware afterwards). She then kept crawling under this table full of guys who were sitting back and trying to drink beer and chat. I couldn't for the life of me figure out who her parents were until they finally appeared from the other side of the room. I guess they just dropped her off at an empty table while they went across the place to eat and drink with their friends. How crappy for the little girl and everyone else around her. Of course she was a gem compared to the screaming kids that are often times in there, at least she was quiet.

It's just my personal preference, but I don't want to be around kids. It sets off some sort of OCD in me as I constantly feel like I have to moniter them to make sure they don't break something, do something gross, or take/touch something they're not supposed to. I have no idea why, but it just makes me nervous and edgy with them around because I'm constantly waiting for a spill, crash, or something disgusting to happen. And if I'm walking around, I'm worried about stepping on or tripping over them because they don't watch where they're going and I'me tall.
2012-09-16 12:42:44 AM  
1 votes:

El_Perro: The My Little Pony Killer: Somebody who can put in the time and effort to complain so loudly about not being able to take their children with them everywhere they go probably don't have a whole lot going on in their professional lives, for obvious reasons.

Funny, because the teachers here put in the time and effort to complain so loudly about others being able to take their chilidren with them to the beer garden, so they probably don't have a whole lot going on in their professional lives, for obvious reasons. Amiright?

Again, this situation is about conflicting reasonable requests. The teachers should not be insulted for making their request, and the parents should not be insulted for making theirs.


I'm sorry, when did "I want to bring my children to a beer garden" become a *reasonable* point?

/Oh, right, never.
//Any establishment that exists primarily to serve alcohol is, by definition, not child-friendly
///Deal with it, hire a babysitter if you must
2012-09-16 12:34:59 AM  
1 votes:

doloresonthedottedline: El_Perro:

If the situation had been reversed and the stroller crowd had gotten the place to change it's rules to allow parents to bring kids, the teachers would have been justifiably upset about the rule change, and upset that they had lost a place to escape from work. My point is simply that, given the rules that were in place (and, again, the advertising as "family friendly"), these parents have a point - they've lost their place to go socialize.

The difference is they aren't banning any real customers. All parents have to do is HIRE A BABYSITTER. If they can afford to drink at a bar, they can hire a babysitter for an hour or two.


Parents, listen to doloresonthedottedline.

doloresonthedottedline: HIRE A BABYSITTER 

Or stfu and stop taking children to bars.
2012-09-15 11:28:57 PM  
1 votes:
In this case, won't someone think about the children? Kids generally don't want to be around drunks and they don't like the smell of alcohol. Especially late at night when they rather be in bed.

Stop being selfish and be a parent.
2012-09-15 11:23:42 PM  
1 votes:
Nobody likes YOUR kid but you. Similarly, I don't expect you to like my kid. It is not normal to like other people's kids. They are annoying. I like my kid, but I don't like your kid, and when I go drinking, I don't want to watch my kid at the bar. And I sure as hell don't want to watch my language, or my smoke, or my step around your kid, who nobody likes but you. So get a farking sitter. Jeebus.
2012-09-15 11:13:39 PM  
1 votes:
Resturaunts have alcohol and parents still get drinks with the kids in the party - seriously, what's the difference? It's an beverage, no different than soda or wine. If the adults cannot handle the alcohol, they have no business drinking it in the first place - moderation in all things.

Jeez. Hissy fits over nothing.
2012-09-15 10:56:03 PM  
1 votes:
When I get off work I sometimes like to go to happy hour. That would be right after work, not wait 4hours for the families to leave the bar after work.

Perhaps it's just me, but IMO if the parents first reaction upon picking junior up from school is to hit a bar, there's something wrong.

/I believe that unless you can legally purchase a beer/cocktail/glass of wine you have no business being in a bar taking money out of the bartenders pockets by occupying a space that a paying customer could use.
2012-09-15 10:44:08 PM  
1 votes:

Egalitarian: WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO GETTING A BABYSITTER?!?!?!?

Also why does anybody need to be boozing it up at 4PM?


I imagine 8 hours with today's kids would be sufficient.
2012-09-15 10:43:55 PM  
1 votes:

Egalitarian: WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO GETTING A BABYSITTER?!?!?!?

Also why does anybody need to be boozing it up at 4PM?


Exactly what I've been wondering.

And. People who spend all day around kids, apparently.
2012-09-15 10:20:01 PM  
1 votes:
Well no shiat.

As a parent myself, other parents need to realize that your kids are NOT welcome everywhere.
2012-09-15 10:08:53 PM  
1 votes:
Yes. Yes it does.
2012-09-15 10:03:37 PM  
1 votes:

Gwendolyn: DING DING DING!

Keep your kids out of the freaking beer garden. You're a parent. Start acting like one.


Gwendolyn gets my Farker of the Day Award.
2012-09-15 09:48:52 PM  
1 votes:
Most places don't allow pets.
Should be the same for kids.

They make too much noise, shiat, and stink. Got a seeing-eye baby, sure. Otherwise, dont reproduce if you can't afford the sitter. You seriously think the rest of us want to deal with your screaming fermented-jerkstain after a full day of work? Bzzzt.
2012-09-15 09:47:49 PM  
1 votes:

doglover: El_Perro: these parents have a point - they've lost their place to go socialize.

Yeah. But things change.

Plus, the place IS family friendly. Just not after 4. Used to be 7. Still a nice lunch option.

I would have a little more sympathy, but teachers get too much shiat from parents. Not wearing a condom is not some grand accomplishment. Anyone without a medical problem and many people with one are capable of sexual reproduction. If you're not able to spend 24/7 raising the result of that sexual reproduction, and let's face it no one is, eventually you'll have to trust the child to someone else.

That person is also a human. They like to drink, smoke, curse, and fart loudly as the punchline to the joke about the monkey and the rabbi in Mecca. Unlike all other professions, however, teachers catch holy hell if they're seen acting like humans outside of work. Basically we have the same constraints as diplomats, but without the marine security or the pay checks and immunity.

When parents rise up and shout down the soccer moms and vote to raise teacher salaries and tell their kids to study harder instead of blaming the teacher when tests are bombed... when this happens maybe I'll upgrade to the world's second smallest violin for the parents who lost one of an infinite number of potential restaurant options.


I emphasize with you and have heard even worse horror stories. I can't imagine why anyone would choose teaching as a career (with students less than college age, that is).
2012-09-15 09:42:25 PM  
1 votes:

doglover: I'm a doctor. I have to do an operation. I'll just sterilize my kid and set him down in the corner of the OR during your surgery. Acceptable?


Well, that's a bit extreme...

Oh, wait, you probably mean with alcohol prep pads or something. Carry on.
2012-09-15 09:39:26 PM  
1 votes:

The My Little Pony Killer: El_Perro: scottydoesntknow: El_Perro: scottydoesntknow: I'm sorry they won't let you bring your crotch fruit there any more. What about Applebees? I hear that place has a bar.


I could care less about this place, or about who they let in or don't let in (though, it'd be nice if they kept the Staten Island crowd away from the area). I'm just saying that if you're going to criticize people for being pushy about stuff like this, you should at least be consistent about it.

I am being consistent. I have yet to say the parents are right or deserve to have their kids there. The teachers deserve to have a place to drink and relax and not be surrounded by children. That's an extremely reasonable request, especially for a bar. They aren't denying the parents the privilege to drink. Just don't bring your kids in there with you.

Of course the teachers are reasonable for wanting a place to go without being surrounded by children. But the parents are also reasonable for wanting a place to go have some food and a drink or two, even if they can't unload their kids for the afternoon, as this place was initially advertised (e.g., as a "family friendly" bar/restaurant, which allows the under-21 crowd until 7pm). This is not a situation where one side is "right" and one is "wrong" - it's a situation where both sides are dealing with scarce resources, so to speak (there really aren't that many places for anyone to go around this place), and both sides have reasonable requests. So, why is it that the teachers' reasonable request is perceived as such, but the parents' reasonable request is perceived as the "Mommy Mafia"?

Because they are completely unwilling to accept that they are still allowed to bring their children to the pub with them, so long as they are finished with their business there prior to 4pm.


Once again, by the same token, you could say that the teachers were completely unwilling to accept that they were still allowed to drink at this place, without children present, so long as they arrived after 7pm.

I agree that parents (in this area and elsewhere) are often rather pushy about trying to force places to allow them to bring their kids. But that's not the situation here. This was a place that openly advertised/advertises as a family friendly restaurant & bar, and allowed kids until 7pm. These teachers weren't willing to accept that. If the situation were reversed, I'd bet that everyone here who is defending the teachers for making their request would be tearing apart the parents for making the opposite request.
2012-09-15 09:38:24 PM  
1 votes:
Ah, Fark, where any issue involving kids gets a fair and reasonable hearing.

Remove the kids for a second: a venue marketed itself to a certain demographic, but when a more profitable new market opened up, they barred the first demographic from coming.

That sucks. The customers who can't stay where they've been invited have a right to complain. And the owners better hope they calculated their relative profit margins correctly. If they did then they will remember this story and laugh.

I can't believe that there are all these jerks here that would begrudge a parent a beer with a friend - oh no! call CPS! - while your kids played bocce at a *place that invited you to come*.

/I actually can believe it, it's Fark.
2012-09-15 09:32:32 PM  
1 votes:
What is this garden of beer you speak of?

Also...kids should be banned from every public place.
2012-09-15 09:25:43 PM  
1 votes:
Couldn't you just leash the kids and tie them outside like you do dogs?
2012-09-15 09:23:15 PM  
1 votes:

El_Perro: doglover: El_Perro: It was the teachers who complained, made noise, and caused the rule change.

Do you know why?

It's because if the students see the teachers acting like free citizens and having a few drinks, maybe even talking about work, and point them out to the parents, the parents will get on their high horse and be "We can't have these alcoholic monsters in with our precious kids! Cut their salaries! Kill them all!" then those same self important windbags go out to this beer garden, get plastered, and teach their precious little kids that DUI is only wrong when it's not daddy or mommy behind the wheel.

Teachers spend all day earning peanuts and dealing in a professional manner with children that most people would not spend any length of time with for all the money in the world. The last thing they need is to deal with the same kids AFTER work, too. You need those places to escape from work. And if a beer garden isn't the textbook example of a place they should discourage minors from patronizing I don't know what it.


I agree, of course they need those places to escape from work. At the same time, parents also need places to socialize and, yes, have a drink or two. This place explicitly advertised itself (and continues to advertise itself) as "family friendly." There are other places in the area that do not (Double Windsor and Farrell's both come to mind, as do plenty of places over in Park Slope itself).

If the situation had been reversed and the stroller crowd had gotten the place to change it's rules to allow parents to bring kids, the teachers would have been justifiably upset about the rule change, and upset that they had lost a place to escape from work. My point is simply that, given the rules that were in place (and, again, the advertising as "family friendly"), these parents have a point - they've lost their place to go socialize.


So do your drinking and socializing before 4pm, and then leave so that the teachers can also enjoy drinking and socializing.

Unless you're a ninny who feels the need to complain that they can't get their way 24/7, it's a win/win.
2012-09-15 09:16:49 PM  
1 votes:

CavalierEternal: CreamFilling: Someone is perceptive. Just like when my cable company sends me a bill, it pretty much means they want money.

Or like when I got fired from my job back in April, which pretty much meant that I wasn't allowed to show up there and do work in exchange for money anymore.


Or like when I got set on fire by my ex girlfriend, which pretty much meant she wanted to break up with me.
2012-09-15 09:12:56 PM  
1 votes:

Bullseyed: I don't get it. Why isn't Child Protective Services at the door taking kids away from parents who take their kids to a bar?

2012-09-15 09:10:10 PM  
1 votes:
"I really think it is our obligation as friends to be brutally honest, and be frank with them. Look, I'm sorry, but your baby is f*cking boring."
userserve-ak.last.fm
2012-09-15 09:07:49 PM  
1 votes:
www.shopping-advices.com

Worst beer garden ever
2012-09-15 09:03:32 PM  
1 votes:

Coco LaFemme: Entitled white people problems.

Just because YOU love your children doesn't mean the rest of us are going to love them too. When the boyfriend and I go out to locales that aren't necessarily kid-friendly, and we see parents who have dragged younger kids there (under 10).....I wonder what the fark these people are thinking. My dad likes to have a beer or two, but when my sister and I were younger, he would have cut off his own head rather than take us with him to a bar, or a beer garden, or some other place like that.

Jesus H. Christ in a chicken basket, you snooty coont.


Half the kids in the pictures are asian, black or mexican.

Take your racism elsewhere.
2012-09-15 07:35:12 PM  
1 votes:
Isn't there a snooty Kid Park to take them to teach them marginalization of others and prejudice? I'm sure it's right next to the snooty Dog Park where they teach their dogs marginalization of others and prejudice.
2012-09-15 06:56:12 PM  
1 votes:
Csb: I don't smoke anymore, but back when I did I got into a nasty tiff in a beer garden at a local outdoor concert because I had the audacity to light up near someone's precious snowflakes. Because toddlers are sooooo essential to the beer garden experience. What were they doing there anyway? I bet their ID's were fake.
2012-09-15 06:46:32 PM  
1 votes:
Someone is perceptive. Just like when my cable company sends me a bill, it pretty much means they want money.
 
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