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(New York Daily News)   Parents complain after children are banned from Brooklyn beer garden after 4 p.m. "It pretty much means that they don't want us here with the kids"   (nydailynews.com) divider line 177
    More: Obvious, Diane Vasilakos  
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5585 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Sep 2012 at 8:53 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-16 02:29:12 AM
"Kids allowed until 7" was beer garden advertising, not a suicide pact. Now it seems the beer garden has changed their rules. Big deal.
Bye kids, GTFO at 4.

"Four is too early for sure," she said. "It pretty much means that they don't want us here with the kids."
You got it coont! GTFO.

Once at a bar, I like to smoke and tell loud dirty jokes with lots of coarse language. I care not if your kids hear, they shouldn't be at the bar in the first place. Them learning some new words is punishment for you being a shiatty parent.
 
2012-09-16 02:39:09 AM

El_Perro: doglover: El_Perro: It was the teachers who complained, made noise, and caused the rule change.

Do you know why?

It's because if the students see the teachers acting like free citizens and having a few drinks, maybe even talking about work, and point them out to the parents, the parents will get on their high horse and be "We can't have these alcoholic monsters in with our precious kids! Cut their salaries! Kill them all!" then those same self important windbags go out to this beer garden, get plastered, and teach their precious little kids that DUI is only wrong when it's not daddy or mommy behind the wheel.

Teachers spend all day earning peanuts and dealing in a professional manner with children that most people would not spend any length of time with for all the money in the world. The last thing they need is to deal with the same kids AFTER work, too. You need those places to escape from work. And if a beer garden isn't the textbook example of a place they should discourage minors from patronizing I don't know what it.


I agree, of course they need those places to escape from work. At the same time, parents also need places to socialize and, yes, have a drink or two. This place explicitly advertised itself (and continues to advertise itself) as "family friendly." There are other places in the area that do not (Double Windsor and Farrell's both come to mind, as do plenty of places over in Park Slope itself).

If the situation had been reversed and the stroller crowd had gotten the place to change it's rules to allow parents to bring kids, the teachers would have been justifiably upset about the rule change, and upset that they had lost a place to escape from work. My point is simply that, given the rules that were in place (and, again, the advertising as "family friendly"), these parents have a point - they've lost their place to go socialize.


It is a private establishment. They chose which customer they value. Don't like it, vote with your dollars. End of story.
 
2012-09-16 03:00:51 AM
Private establishments need to be far more restrictive as to when and where children are allowed.

It's not even a PC issue. Kids banned from the beer garden? The horror.

Parents these days have so much less common sense and so much more self-entitlement (and child self-righteousness) than they deserve.

Keep your flipping kids outta the bar and the nice restaurants until they're old enough.
 
2012-09-16 03:01:55 AM
I'd be annoyed as hell if I had to deal with kids when I was out having a cocktail and trying to relax; this is why there are lounges that don't allow kids.
 
2012-09-16 03:19:57 AM

MadAzza: CitizenTed: These parents are denying their children a Right of Passage we all once enjoyed. Bars and taverns used to be places with no windows in the door and nifty neon signs on the windows that we kids could only appreciate from afar. "One day," we'd tell ourselves, "One day THIS will be mine!"

Then, when we turned 21 (or 19 in my case), those wooden doors swung wide and I reveled in my passage to adulthood. Before me lay years and years of liquor, beer, wine and women. I had "made it".

These parents are denying their children this joy. They are forcing their young children into premature adulthood. They are just as foul, stupid and selfish as those beauty contest Moms. Parents: let your kids be kids and let adults enjoy adult things. OK? Thanks.

This is the smartest thing you've ever written here, as far as I can tell. And it's exactly how I feel. That mystery I felt when I was a kid, about what was in that dark room off the main restaurant dining room ... kids no longer feel that. There's no discovery, nothing to look forward to.

And no place for the rest of us, as adults, to get away from them.


This goes along with the idea that children could appear in restaurants when they were old enough to behave themselves. What happened to this?
 
2012-09-16 04:08:32 AM

Chinchillazilla: "I'm looking at these 21-year-olds," said Alex Phillips, 36, whose daughter Madeleine, 2, rested by her side. "Wait until you have kids and want a drink."

I may only be 22, but I'm fairly certain I want to drink more right now than I ever will in later life.

/also, way to assume we all want kids


^ This!

I'm a 39yo male with no kids. That is by choice. That means sometimes I choose to go to places where there are kids and inevitably end up annoyed. That also means I like to go to places where there are no kids. Just because you chose to help overpopulate the planet with your cracker spawn* doesn't mean we should have to put up with them.

/fark off
// * - you wanted them, you deal with them
//i also hate the double wide strollers. whoever invented that hideous, rude, p.o.s. contraption should be punched in the stomach by single people until they die
 
2012-09-16 04:54:52 AM
If you can't afford or arrange child care, stay the hell home. Little kids don't belong in bars, they don't belong in movie theaters watchign movies not made for kids, they do not belong in nice resteraunts after the lunch hour.

Dear young stupid parents;

Your life has changed. No babysitter = no party, no evening out with friends, no drinkng. Deal with it. Your kidless and single friends don't want your kids there. They probably don't want you there anymore, to be honest.

Sincerely,

The world.
 
2012-09-16 05:01:44 AM

Willas Tyrell: Suggesting that someone who was a patron of the place has no right to complain when they're banned is absurd.


They didn't complain; they couldn't care less. Their parents are the ones who complained.

And they're not banned. They are welcome to go with their parents until 4 p.m. That's perfectly reasonable.
 
2012-09-16 06:59:59 AM

Bullseyed: I don't get it. Why isn't Child Protective Services at the door taking kids away from parents who take their kids to a bar?



Some of the parents are women.
 
2012-09-16 08:23:14 AM

MadAzza: Willas Tyrell: Suggesting that someone who was a patron of the place has no right to complain when they're banned is absurd.

They didn't complain; they couldn't care less. Their parents are the ones who complained.


No.

The parents are the patrons in question. These aren't just random parents who decided to bring their children someplace inappropriate - the place opened up and specifically marketed itself to these parents.

My guess is that this is the right decision business-wise, but if you aggresively market your business to a particular demographic, then bail on them, be ready for the complaints.
 
2012-09-16 08:33:40 AM

incrdbil: If you can't afford or arrange child care, stay the hell home. Little kids don't belong in bars, they don't belong in movie theaters watchign movies not made for kids, they do not belong in nice resteraunts after the lunch hour.

Dear young stupid parents;

Your life has changed. No babysitter = no party, no evening out with friends, no drinkng. Deal with it. Your kidless and single friends don't want your kids there. They probably don't want you there anymore, to be honest.

Sincerely,

The world.


Dear World,

I though you'd want to know that someone narrow person of below average intelligence is writing letters in your name. For some reason they think that a place that has marketed itself to families specifically is a place that's "inappropriate" to kid, and that a customer who is invited in and then is told they aren't welcome is "entitled". Yeah, I don't understand why they'd think that either.

Yours,
Willas

/probably the right business decision for the beer garden, but they have to be ready for their abandoned customers to complain about it.
 
2012-09-16 08:43:08 AM

eventhelosers: Bullseyed: I don't get it. Why isn't Child Protective Services at the door taking kids away from parents who take their kids to a bar?


Some of the parents are women.


Because it doesn't endanger children. I'm happy to field any more of your remarkably simple questions.
 
2012-09-16 08:47:09 AM
This is so stupid. Here in Germany biergartens are a place for families to eat and enjoy a few beers. Some of them even have playgrounds and sandboxes for kids to play in.. its very social and friendly.. of course there are evening events but 4pm? wtf.. maybe after 8 or 9pm! Puritans win again...
 
2012-09-16 08:49:31 AM

a21ozcoldcup: Puritans ALCOHOLICS win againSOMETIMES...


Let's call it what it is. These are depressed happy hour people who talk too loud and hoot when they're drunk.
 
2012-09-16 09:40:29 AM
So, why are the teachers drinking at 4pm during the week? Should they not be home grading papers at that time?
 
2012-09-16 09:57:08 AM

Mock26: So, why are the teachers drinking at 4pm during the week? Should they not be home grading papers at that time?


They're taking a break from it :P - probably need a couple of pints to plow through the rest of the terribly written, nearly illegible stuff.
 
2012-09-16 10:39:40 AM

doglover: El_Perro: Why are the teachers reasonable for complaining, but now that the situation is reversed, the parents are "ninnies" for making their own wishes known?

I'm a doctor. I have to do an operation. I'll just sterilize my kid and set him down in the corner of the OR during your surgery. Acceptable?
.


My father was a surgeon, and as a child I did indeed get to accompany him to the operating room and observe. No, not from a balcony or observation deck, but standing there beside the table. I loved watching surgery, and those are my only real good memories I have of my father.
 
2012-09-16 10:55:20 AM

Helena Handbasket: doglover: El_Perro: Why are the teachers reasonable for complaining, but now that the situation is reversed, the parents are "ninnies" for making their own wishes known?

I'm a doctor. I have to do an operation. I'll just sterilize my kid and set him down in the corner of the OR during your surgery. Acceptable?
.

My father was a surgeon, and as a child I did indeed get to accompany him to the operating room and observe. No, not from a balcony or observation deck, but standing there beside the table. I loved watching surgery, and those are my only real good memories I have of my father.


blog.sweetcitycandy.com
 
2012-09-16 11:37:06 AM

porterm: one or two kids in a bar doesnt really bother me if they are well behaved and just sit on there hands and dont speak unless they are spoken to,but you fill the room with multiple kids and moms who would kill to protect thier kids from any unknown or ununderstood problem is too much for any time of the day. id simply prefer people ddnt take thier kids any place where people like to unwind after a hard days toil. and it really doesnt seem too responsible for mommy to be slamming tequila when she's gonna have to strap the kiddos into the minivan and hit the highway. dont hate kids,dont have any but i like em in the right circumstances. just not in a bar at happy hour times. mommies,just take your kids home and put a little vodak in your iced tea. heck,have mommie partys at your own home and drink all you like. i gotta say though,the owners set themselves up for this one.


It's like a tap room; it only sells beer and wine. Also it sounds like it has the ambiance of a rural County Fair, which delights me.
 
2012-09-16 12:13:59 PM

a21ozcoldcup: This is so stupid. Here in Germany biergartens are a place for families to eat and enjoy a few beers. Some of them even have playgrounds and sandboxes for kids to play in.. its very social and friendly.. of course there are evening events but 4pm? wtf.. maybe after 8 or 9pm! Puritans win again...


thats why i am inclined to agree with the parents. if you want to advertise your place as a beer garden, then it should be treated like one, which means they are family friendly places which serve beer to the parents while families socialize and eat. otherwise just refer to it as a bar with a patio?
 
2012-09-16 02:10:27 PM
If it "takes a a village to raise a child", then maybe that's one of the reasons that I live in the woods.
I am in favor of any establishment that I can go to that guarantees I will not have to tolerate children.

Thank you,

The Witch who doesn't appreciate those trespassers Hansel & Gretel
 
2012-09-16 03:25:45 PM
I'm gonna let you non-child bearing folk in on a little secret - you don't become a completely different person after having kids. That is, if you are a man, mostly, but some women as well. We still like to go out and have a couple of drinks and a good chat.
The real reason that most men don't take their families out to dinner and a couple of drinks? It's pretty damn expensive, and for that kind of money we usually want to relax, have some good food & good conversation, be able to finish the pitcher of beer, while occasionally following the score of the game on the TV.
We don't want to go shell out $100 and get crappy service because we have kids, restless kids not letting conversation happen, and a wife who just wants to go home and maintain her schedule and can't/won't let herself relax for more than 15 minutes at a time and who decides that you're a bad person if after 35 minutes the food has been served and consumed and you don't want to go because there's still a half pitcher left.

/don't chug the last of the pitcher
//no matter how much you want to
///meh, chug it if you want, she's already too uptight for tonight to happen anyway
 
2012-09-16 03:56:15 PM

El_Perro: doglover: El_Perro: Why are the teachers reasonable for complaining, but now that the situation is reversed, the parents are "ninnies" for making their own wishes known?

I'm a stripper. I have a kid. I'll just take him to work with me, set him up at a back table with some juice. Acceptable?

I like cigars. I like my kid. I'll just go to the cigar bar with my kid, maybe give him an unlit stogie. Aw, look at that, he's just like Winston Churchill. Acceptable?

I'm a doctor. I have to do an operation. I'll just sterilize my kid and set him down in the corner of the OR during your surgery. Acceptable?

Do you not see the part where some things are just not appropriate for children, even if you are a parent? The fact that kids get in until 4pm makes the place family friendly. After that it's happy hour. If your kid can't order a beer for themselves, they're too young to be in there.

Except that the place initially allowed kids until 7pm (and, incidentally, the place hasn't changed its website, which still lists the 7pm time, not 4pm). That made the place family friendly until 7pm.

Your analogies are complete horseshiat. None of those places have ever purported to be appropriate for kids, at any time. Until last week, this place did (and still does, until 4pm). If 4pm is reasonable, why isn't 7pm?


That's simple, because management changed their mind, and decide that they wanted the kids out at 4P.M.
 
2012-09-16 04:06:14 PM
El_Perro:
None of those places have ever purported to be appropriate for kids, at any time. Until last week, this place did (and still does, until 4pm). If 4pm is reasonable, why isn't 7pm?

Because many of us don't want to party with your kids at all & management figured out that we shouldn't have to & we probably spend more & tip better due to lack of liability ridden, screaming dependents.
 
2012-09-16 07:21:22 PM

shiattynick: I'm gonna let you non-child bearing folk in on a little secret - you don't become a completely different person after having kids. That is, if you are a man, mostly, but some women as well. We still like to go out and have a couple of drinks and a good chat.
The real reason that most men don't take their families out to dinner and a couple of drinks? It's pretty damn expensive, and for that kind of money we usually want to relax, have some good food & good conversation, be able to finish the pitcher of beer, while occasionally following the score of the game on the TV.
We don't want to go shell out $100 and get crappy service because we have kids, restless kids not letting conversation happen, and a wife who just wants to go home and maintain her schedule and can't/won't let herself relax for more than 15 minutes at a time and who decides that you're a bad person if after 35 minutes the food has been served and consumed and you don't want to go because there's still a half pitcher left.

/don't chug the last of the pitcher
//no matter how much you want to
///meh, chug it if you want, she's already too uptight for tonight to happen anyway


I'm gonna rebut that with the opinion that you become MORE of the person you really are, because you're too tired to hide it as much. I know my sister and her husband are a lot more obnoxious now, just in general, than they were pre-kids. This can of course depend on what kind of person you already were however; several of my friends are just fine post child. Others make me want to smack them when it comes to daily interactions...
 
2012-09-17 09:46:43 AM

tlchwi02: a21ozcoldcup: This is so stupid. Here in Germany biergartens are a place for families to eat and enjoy a few beers. Some of them even have playgrounds and sandboxes for kids to play in.. its very social and friendly.. of course there are evening events but 4pm? wtf.. maybe after 8 or 9pm! Puritans win again...

thats why i am inclined to agree with the parents. if you want to advertise your place as a beer garden, then it should be treated like one, which means they are family friendly places which serve beer to the parents while families socialize and eat. otherwise just refer to it as a bar with a patio?


Difference...
Germany: well established institution which is a place for families to eat.
America: institution revived by bars, which are a place for people to drink.
 
2012-09-18 12:15:58 PM
If we can't drink on your playground, you can't play on our drinkground.
 
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