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(New York Daily News)   Parents complain after children are banned from Brooklyn beer garden after 4 p.m. "It pretty much means that they don't want us here with the kids"   (nydailynews.com) divider line 176
    More: Obvious, Diane Vasilakos  
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5587 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Sep 2012 at 8:53 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-15 10:16:18 PM  

El_Perro: Your analogies are complete horseshiat. None of those places have ever purported to be appropriate for kids, at any time. Until last week, this place did (and still does, until 4pm). If 4pm is reasonable, why isn't 7pm?


Because the owners of the establishment said so. Leading me to believe the parents were not keeping an eye on the kiddies or why would people start complaining in the first place? If the kids were quietly at their table, would anyone notice them?? Prolly not.
 
2012-09-15 10:16:41 PM  

kidsizedcoffin: Spaghettiows: As a child of the late 60s and early 70s, back then it was not uncommon for parents to bring their kids to the neighborhood taverns, as long as it was before about 8:00 PM. But the kids were expected to behave if the parent wanted to remain welcome at the establishment.

Back when a stranger could help keep a child in line without being arrested or ending up on some registry.


Yeah, that too.
 
2012-09-15 10:20:01 PM  
Well no shiat.

As a parent myself, other parents need to realize that your kids are NOT welcome everywhere.
 
2012-09-15 10:20:46 PM  
Teachers could have one somewhere less kid friendly.
The parents can go somewhere more kid friendly.
The owners could have told the teachers to fark off.

Like I said in a previous post, assholes all around on this one.
 
2012-09-15 10:20:48 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer:
Teachers. Time restrictions.


Correct.

Parents. No time restrictions.

Wrong.
 
2012-09-15 10:22:20 PM  
Damn, and I was going to ask our local bar/strip club to keep the kids out too. I guess I can't do that now.

Oh well, let the kids have their beer and strippers.
 
2012-09-15 10:25:51 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: Somebody who can put in the time and effort to complain so loudly about not being able to take their children with them everywhere they go probably don't have a whole lot going on in their professional lives, for obvious reasons.


Funny, because the teachers here put in the time and effort to complain so loudly about others being able to take their chilidren with them to the beer garden, so they probably don't have a whole lot going on in their professional lives, for obvious reasons. Amiright?

Again, this situation is about conflicting reasonable requests. The teachers should not be insulted for making their request, and the parents should not be insulted for making theirs.
 
2012-09-15 10:27:15 PM  
Used to take my kid to a local pub after work quite frequently. Of course she was just a baby, prob stopped when she was about 4-5 or so and that was because the little shiat was mobile and I don't want her getting trampled by all the drunks in the place. Including me.

That being said 4pm seems a bit early and I think 8pm would be a better cut off time. Don't much care if there are teachers or other professions around, I've never asked anyone to do something I wouldn't do and yhat's keep you farking kids in check and don't let them wander around underfoot.
 
2012-09-15 10:29:33 PM  

TheGreenMonkey: Used to take my kid to a local pub after work quite frequently. Of course she was just a baby, prob stopped when she was about 4-5 or so and that was because the little shiat was mobile and I don't want her getting trampled by all the drunks in the place. Including me.

That being said 4pm seems a bit early and I think 8pm would be a better cut off time. Don't much care if there are teachers or other professions around, I've never asked anyone to do something I wouldn't do and yhat's keep you farking kids in check and don't let them wander around underfoot.


Yeah, but think of how people like to go out after work, then think of what time teachers get off and when they have to be in. If I were in a profession that got off between 2-4 PM and couldn't be seen drinking around children, I'd want a place too.
 
2012-09-15 10:38:59 PM  
WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO GETTING A BABYSITTER?!?!?!?

Also why does anybody need to be boozing it up at 4PM?
 
2012-09-15 10:39:24 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: Kids should be banned from all public places after 4pm.


School lets out at 3. One hour is one hour too many.
 
2012-09-15 10:42:20 PM  

ThighsofGlory: Popcorn Johnny: Kids should be banned from all public places after 4pm.

School lets out at 3. One hour is one hour too many.


My high school let at 2:10.
 
2012-09-15 10:43:55 PM  

Egalitarian: WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO GETTING A BABYSITTER?!?!?!?

Also why does anybody need to be boozing it up at 4PM?


Exactly what I've been wondering.

And. People who spend all day around kids, apparently.
 
2012-09-15 10:44:08 PM  

Egalitarian: WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO GETTING A BABYSITTER?!?!?!?

Also why does anybody need to be boozing it up at 4PM?


I imagine 8 hours with today's kids would be sufficient.
 
2012-09-15 10:46:48 PM  

Oh_Enough_Already: And you know, that if these parents got their way, and the bar kept admitting kids, that the moment some drunk guy got caught finger-banging one of their nine-year-olds in the stall in the woman's room, they'd complain about that.

And probably sue the bar for not taking "protective action" to ensure their kid's safety by banning them from the establishment.


What kind of bars are you going to?
 
2012-09-15 10:51:45 PM  
OK I can see the teachers needing to drink at 4PM but these parents, stay the fark out.

When you became parents you signed up for giving up a lot of adult fun stuff until the kids go to college. Grow up. Do not take your young kids to bars or rated R movies or expensive restaurants.
 
2012-09-15 10:52:27 PM  
The teachers from Park Slope and Sunset Park who go there after work on Friday will ring up a tab in the hundreds of dollars. The parents who are complaining were going to spend a total of
$6 on one beer -- can't be too drunk in front of the kid -- and their kid would stay in the bocce lane all afternoon so no one could play.

The business made the right choice in accommodating the teachers.
 
2012-09-15 10:56:03 PM  
When I get off work I sometimes like to go to happy hour. That would be right after work, not wait 4hours for the families to leave the bar after work.

Perhaps it's just me, but IMO if the parents first reaction upon picking junior up from school is to hit a bar, there's something wrong.

/I believe that unless you can legally purchase a beer/cocktail/glass of wine you have no business being in a bar taking money out of the bartenders pockets by occupying a space that a paying customer could use.
 
2012-09-15 11:11:01 PM  
The way I figure it, this is a fair compromise for everybody. See Mommy or Daddy get the majority of the day to take their little crotch fruit to the bar so they can try to drink away the memories of the better life they once had. The teachers just want a place where they can go to relax and chat about the nonsense that these vile little beasts spouted all day without having to worry if some hipster helicopter parent overhears them. Also, kids don't usually pony up to the bar and order a round of drinks. Since alcohol is the profit center for a bar, the owners are going to side with the teachers on this one. I understand that it was labeled as a family friendly place; all things are subject to change, get used to it.

/Sarcasm!? Where?
 
2012-09-15 11:12:43 PM  
I hate the "new" parenting whereby it's OK to get tipsy with your kids in tow, cheat on your spouse, and name your kids and dog(s) retarded things. Get the fark out of my bar and go back to buying artisan pantyliners for use in MoMa exhibits or whatever the fark the rest of the tight-pants no-practical-skills set pays you to do.
 
2012-09-15 11:13:39 PM  
Resturaunts have alcohol and parents still get drinks with the kids in the party - seriously, what's the difference? It's an beverage, no different than soda or wine. If the adults cannot handle the alcohol, they have no business drinking it in the first place - moderation in all things.

Jeez. Hissy fits over nothing.
 
2012-09-15 11:17:39 PM  
one or two kids in a bar doesnt really bother me if they are well behaved and just sit on there hands and dont speak unless they are spoken to,but you fill the room with multiple kids and moms who would kill to protect thier kids from any unknown or ununderstood problem is too much for any time of the day. id simply prefer people ddnt take thier kids any place where people like to unwind after a hard days toil. and it really doesnt seem too responsible for mommy to be slamming tequila when she's gonna have to strap the kiddos into the minivan and hit the highway. dont hate kids,dont have any but i like em in the right circumstances. just not in a bar at happy hour times. mommies,just take your kids home and put a little vodak in your iced tea. heck,have mommie partys at your own home and drink all you like. i gotta say though,the owners set themselves up for this one.
 
2012-09-15 11:17:56 PM  

Mock26: Teachers could have one somewhere less kid friendly.
The parents can go somewhere more kid friendly.
The owners could have told the teachers to fark off.

Like I said in a previous post, assholes all around on this one.

Several parents, in turn, claimed it's not the students that teachers are actually worried about.

"They don't want us to see them drink," said Yuna Weiss, a 44-year-old mother of four. "Some of them get very sloppy."


I think we found the asshole here. Why would you bring up the fact that teachers are getting sloppy drunk during their off time? I think part of these new hours had to do with busy body parents going back and reporting that their kids teachers are out drinking after work and the teachers in return told the bar owner that they would take their business elsewhere if something wasn't done about these people. And the free market prevailed as the owner obviously valued the patronage of the teachers more. But I'm also sure that other people got tired of kids running around and parents complaining about them having adult conversation, in a place where you have adult conversation, with kids around.
 
2012-09-15 11:18:12 PM  

doglover: scottydoesntknow: I have a problem with parents thinking their kids belong everywhere

This.

As a teacher, I need places I can go and not run the risk of bumping into anyone younger than 20 or so. If there's kids running around, it prevents relaxation and unless the parents are gonna comp my whole night I really must insist they lose the brood.


Those awkward encounters with sexual partners must be awkward.
 
2012-09-15 11:20:47 PM  

Egalitarian: WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO GETTING A BABYSITTER?!?!?!?

Also why does anybody need to be boozing it up at 4PM?


To warm up for happy hour at 5.
 
2012-09-15 11:23:42 PM  
Nobody likes YOUR kid but you. Similarly, I don't expect you to like my kid. It is not normal to like other people's kids. They are annoying. I like my kid, but I don't like your kid, and when I go drinking, I don't want to watch my kid at the bar. And I sure as hell don't want to watch my language, or my smoke, or my step around your kid, who nobody likes but you. So get a farking sitter. Jeebus.
 
2012-09-15 11:24:44 PM  
This would be a non-issue if we'd just outright ban alcohol.

There. Everybody happy!
 
2012-09-15 11:28:57 PM  
In this case, won't someone think about the children? Kids generally don't want to be around drunks and they don't like the smell of alcohol. Especially late at night when they rather be in bed.

Stop being selfish and be a parent.
 
2012-09-15 11:32:48 PM  
I'm always disappointed with the concept of a "beer garden". Every time I hear the term I think of a Willy Wonka type place, with a literal fountain of beer and trees with beer bottles. But no, it's just a stupid outdoor place for drinking. Lame.
 
2012-09-15 11:42:18 PM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: Lets be honest here, How many of you read the fark headline and said to yourself, "No shiat sherlock!"
or something very, very similar?


*raises hand*

I said "Duuuuh no fark, twatknuckle," but I reckon that's close enough to count. Right?
 
2012-09-15 11:43:25 PM  

El_Perro: cameroncrazy1984: El_Perro: Your analogies are complete horseshiat. None of those places have ever purported to be appropriate for kids, at any time. Until last week, this place did (and still does, until 4pm). If 4pm is reasonable, why isn't 7pm?

More people are out of work between 5 and 7pm and would prefer a child-free hangout.

By the same token, many parents are out of work between 5 and 7pm, and may want to grab a drink after work themselves.

I'm not saying these teachers don't have a reasonable point. Just that the parents have a reasonable point also.


No they don't.
Drinking alcohol and being responsible for a child is incompatible.
You should never do both, ever.
 
2012-09-15 11:43:39 PM  

doglover: NO shiat YOU ALKIES!

UNLESS YOUR "KIDS" ARE OLD ENOUGH TO DRINK, GO HOME!


One to done in .05 seconds.
 
2012-09-15 11:47:28 PM  

Herr Flick's Revenge: El_Perro: cameroncrazy1984: El_Perro: Your analogies are complete horseshiat. None of those places have ever purported to be appropriate for kids, at any time. Until last week, this place did (and still does, until 4pm). If 4pm is reasonable, why isn't 7pm?

More people are out of work between 5 and 7pm and would prefer a child-free hangout.

By the same token, many parents are out of work between 5 and 7pm, and may want to grab a drink after work themselves.

I'm not saying these teachers don't have a reasonable point. Just that the parents have a reasonable point also.

No they don't.
Drinking alcohol and being responsible for a child is incompatible.
You should never do both, ever.


Indeed. After seeing what insufferable assholes some of these people become when they realize that having fun is often not on the menu, I am glad that I opted not reproduce.
 
2012-09-15 11:48:46 PM  
*not to
 
2012-09-15 11:53:09 PM  
Act like an idiot or make a scene, and you have to leave. Why can't that go for adults and children? The presence of a well-behaved kid is far less of an annoyance to me than people who laugh obnoxiously, or wear too much cologne or perfume, or get sloppy drunk, or speak publicly in a profane or sexual way, or wear athletic clothing to non-athletic events, or sneeze openly, or wear a hat while eating in a dining room, or talk loudly on their mobile phone, and so on. If a place is serving a full menu, and it is before 9pm, then I'd expect to see kids around. That goes for "fancy" restaurants, as some people can afford it and their children are well-behaved enough to fit in.
 
2012-09-15 11:54:48 PM  
Going out to have a drink, chat with friends, in a family atmosphere is not evil. It's the standard pub model.
It isn't about drinking to get drunk. Some people even think abstaining from drinking at home but responsibly having a drink while out is a far better example for kids, and I agree.
Too many think of bars in that early twenty-something "time to get hammered quick" mentality.
The ultimate point is that there are two different business models. Patronize the ones that fit your needs and go elsewhere if they don't.
 
2012-09-16 12:01:14 AM  
Aw, I missed the "children don't belong in adult spaces" thread. Been a while since we had one.
 
2012-09-16 12:04:50 AM  

sendtodave: Aw, I missed the "children don't belong in adult spaces" thread. Been a while since we had one.


There are adult spaces that can accommodate children.

Bars and beer gardens are not among them.
 
2012-09-16 12:16:45 AM  

DrBrownCow: Act like an idiot or make a scene, and you have to leave. Why can't that go for adults and children? The presence of a well-behaved kid is far less of an annoyance to me than people who laugh obnoxiously, or wear too much cologne or perfume, or get sloppy drunk, or speak publicly in a profane or sexual way, or wear athletic clothing to non-athletic events, or sneeze openly, or wear a hat while eating in a dining room, or talk loudly on their mobile phone, and so on. If a place is serving a full menu, and it is before 9pm, then I'd expect to see kids around. That goes for "fancy" restaurants, as some people can afford it and their children are well-behaved enough to fit in.

so if people dont tow your line in an obvious adult atmosphere should just go ahead and kill themselves right?
you kind of sound like all those jerkwads in the middle east.

 
2012-09-16 12:34:59 AM  

doloresonthedottedline: El_Perro:

If the situation had been reversed and the stroller crowd had gotten the place to change it's rules to allow parents to bring kids, the teachers would have been justifiably upset about the rule change, and upset that they had lost a place to escape from work. My point is simply that, given the rules that were in place (and, again, the advertising as "family friendly"), these parents have a point - they've lost their place to go socialize.

The difference is they aren't banning any real customers. All parents have to do is HIRE A BABYSITTER. If they can afford to drink at a bar, they can hire a babysitter for an hour or two.


Parents, listen to doloresonthedottedline.

doloresonthedottedline: HIRE A BABYSITTER 

Or stfu and stop taking children to bars.
 
2012-09-16 12:42:44 AM  

El_Perro: The My Little Pony Killer: Somebody who can put in the time and effort to complain so loudly about not being able to take their children with them everywhere they go probably don't have a whole lot going on in their professional lives, for obvious reasons.

Funny, because the teachers here put in the time and effort to complain so loudly about others being able to take their chilidren with them to the beer garden, so they probably don't have a whole lot going on in their professional lives, for obvious reasons. Amiright?

Again, this situation is about conflicting reasonable requests. The teachers should not be insulted for making their request, and the parents should not be insulted for making theirs.


I'm sorry, when did "I want to bring my children to a beer garden" become a *reasonable* point?

/Oh, right, never.
//Any establishment that exists primarily to serve alcohol is, by definition, not child-friendly
///Deal with it, hire a babysitter if you must
 
2012-09-16 12:52:54 AM  
I'm not a bar owner, but as a bar patron I can only imagine the amount of money they will rake in during happy hour from an adults only atmosphere will far exceed the amount of money they would get during that time if kids were allowed in. I go to happy hours sometimes and there's a distinct difference in the atmosphere between the bars that don't let in children and the breweries that do. (I'm actually not certain why bars can't allow in those under 21, but breweries can despite both serving food, but either way it's nice.) I don't know what it is, but there's just a more relaxed and fun atmosphere in the bars whereas in the breweries it feels more chaotic because there are kids running around and/or screaming. And for some reason the parents think because it's a more casual atmosphere that it's okay for their kids to go wild.

Last night at a brewery I watched a little girl take up a whole table by herself at 9pm. She kept dropping the place settings on the floor and picking them up (I feel bad for whoever used that silverware afterwards). She then kept crawling under this table full of guys who were sitting back and trying to drink beer and chat. I couldn't for the life of me figure out who her parents were until they finally appeared from the other side of the room. I guess they just dropped her off at an empty table while they went across the place to eat and drink with their friends. How crappy for the little girl and everyone else around her. Of course she was a gem compared to the screaming kids that are often times in there, at least she was quiet.

It's just my personal preference, but I don't want to be around kids. It sets off some sort of OCD in me as I constantly feel like I have to moniter them to make sure they don't break something, do something gross, or take/touch something they're not supposed to. I have no idea why, but it just makes me nervous and edgy with them around because I'm constantly waiting for a spill, crash, or something disgusting to happen. And if I'm walking around, I'm worried about stepping on or tripping over them because they don't watch where they're going and I'me tall.
 
2012-09-16 01:10:42 AM  

PillsHere: Last night at a brewery I watched a little girl take up a whole table by herself at 9pm. She kept dropping the place settings on the floor and picking them up (I feel bad for whoever used that silverware afterwards). She then kept crawling under this table full of guys who were sitting back and trying to drink beer and chat.


Please. Guys never "chat."

/A lot of us txt, though.
 
2012-09-16 01:14:41 AM  
When I was a youth counselor, it was my job to be a squeaky-clean role model on the job, and I was happy to be one. One Saturday night, though, I was at a cinema drafthouse, and was smoking a cigarette outside the box office when one of the teachers I worked with rolled up to me and admonished me for not being a role model (though in friendlier language). I thought but didn't say anything about the fact that I'm an adult man, and deserve to do some of the things adult men are entitled to do. Damn. If I'd actually seen any of my kids (unlikely, as it was a bizarre Japanese avant-garde film I was seeing), I would have put out the smoke before he/she saw me, just because I have at least that much principle, but jeez. Make it my choice.
 
2012-09-16 01:21:36 AM  

CitizenTed: These parents are denying their children a Right of Passage we all once enjoyed. Bars and taverns used to be places with no windows in the door and nifty neon signs on the windows that we kids could only appreciate from afar. "One day," we'd tell ourselves, "One day THIS will be mine!"

Then, when we turned 21 (or 19 in my case), those wooden doors swung wide and I reveled in my passage to adulthood. Before me lay years and years of liquor, beer, wine and women. I had "made it".

These parents are denying their children this joy. They are forcing their young children into premature adulthood. They are just as foul, stupid and selfish as those beauty contest Moms. Parents: let your kids be kids and let adults enjoy adult things. OK? Thanks.


This is the smartest thing you've ever written here, as far as I can tell. And it's exactly how I feel. That mystery I felt when I was a kid, about what was in that dark room off the main restaurant dining room ... kids no longer feel that. There's no discovery, nothing to look forward to.

And no place for the rest of us, as adults, to get away from them.
 
2012-09-16 01:34:08 AM  

MadAzza: CitizenTed: These parents are denying their children a Right of Passage we all once enjoyed. Bars and taverns used to be places with no windows in the door and nifty neon signs on the windows that we kids could only appreciate from afar. "One day," we'd tell ourselves, "One day THIS will be mine!"

Then, when we turned 21 (or 19 in my case), those wooden doors swung wide and I reveled in my passage to adulthood. Before me lay years and years of liquor, beer, wine and women. I had "made it".

These parents are denying their children this joy. They are forcing their young children into premature adulthood. They are just as foul, stupid and selfish as those beauty contest Moms. Parents: let your kids be kids and let adults enjoy adult things. OK? Thanks.

This is the smartest thing you've ever written here, as far as I can tell. And it's exactly how I feel. That mystery I felt when I was a kid, about what was in that dark room off the main restaurant dining room ... kids no longer feel that. There's no discovery, nothing to look forward to.

And no place for the rest of us, as adults, to get away from them.


Truth.

Also, the same goes for porn. When I was a..ahem, developing young man, boobs were difficult to come by. You had to work for it. Kids today have access to all sorts of crap online. I'm not sure what the cutoff age is for easy access to internet porn, but I know that didn't come around until I was in my early 20s.
 
2012-09-16 02:06:09 AM  
No shiat. I've got two kids, and I know the patio at a particular brewery in town allows kids (kinda), but I still have the courtesy to not bring them along with me.
 
2012-09-16 02:11:30 AM  
I live in Vegas and I find it atrocious to see parents wheeling there kids through casino floors at 2 in the morning. These aren't the local casinos either, these are the big touristy strip casinos.
 
2012-09-16 02:18:45 AM  

kidsizedcoffin: TheGreenMonkey: Used to take my kid to a local pub after work quite frequently. Of course she was just a baby, prob stopped when she was about 4-5 or so and that was because the little shiat was mobile and I don't want her getting trampled by all the drunks in the place. Including me.

That being said 4pm seems a bit early and I think 8pm would be a better cut off time. Don't much care if there are teachers or other professions around, I've never asked anyone to do something I wouldn't do and yhat's keep you farking kids in check and don't let them wander around underfoot.

Yeah, but think of how people like to go out after work, then think of what time teachers get off and when they have to be in. If I were in a profession that got off between 2-4 PM and couldn't be seen drinking around children, I'd want a place too.


Point taken, 4pm might just be a good cutoff time for this place. I guess the real problem is that as a society we tend to hold teachers to a higher standard than the rest of humanity. Not really sure why though, they're just normal people like the rest of us. For the most part anyway.

I've partied with some great teachers in the past, but has mostly been after hours or at private functions. Most of them I have been with would be freaked out at having the kids they teach in the same bar, but then they would also not really care so much as long as the parents weren't being idiotic about the situation.
 
2012-09-16 02:29:12 AM  
"Kids allowed until 7" was beer garden advertising, not a suicide pact. Now it seems the beer garden has changed their rules. Big deal.
Bye kids, GTFO at 4.

"Four is too early for sure," she said. "It pretty much means that they don't want us here with the kids."
You got it coont! GTFO.

Once at a bar, I like to smoke and tell loud dirty jokes with lots of coarse language. I care not if your kids hear, they shouldn't be at the bar in the first place. Them learning some new words is punishment for you being a shiatty parent.
 
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