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(Salon)   GOP dropout: "I had assumed that 'bootstrapping' required about as much as it took to get yourself promoted from junior varsity to varsity. It turns out that it's more like pulling yourself up from tee-ball to the World Series"   (salon.com) divider line 208
    More: Interesting, GOP, liberal Republicans, Republican, World Series, chief deputy, Federalist Society, habeas corpus, RINOs  
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7041 clicks; posted to Politics » on 15 Sep 2012 at 9:00 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-15 05:11:19 PM  
Wow, that might be the wisest thing said and the biggest intellectual discovery by a Republican in a century. Unless you're counting Lincoln as a Republican, but by today's standards he's a batshat insane Fiberal or at the very best, a RINO, since the great flip-flop in which the Republican Party sold it's soul to the Devil for the Southern White Cracker vote.
 
2012-09-15 05:15:04 PM  
That seems oddly familiar to me

/like from the last presidential election
 
2012-09-15 05:18:19 PM  
Growing up in the northeast, the GOP was a minority party with what sounded like some good, reasonable ideas. It wasn't until I moved to the south, and had the opportunity to observe them in action, that I realized how misguided and ignorant were when translated into reality.
 
2012-09-15 05:18:35 PM  
The Republican party has sold out its old ideals and become the party of the John Birch society. They have abandoned the old ideals, their great presidents, Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, Eisenhower, Nixon, and even St. Reagan would be considered RINOs these days. The party has given up the middle and has swung hard right. Obama has more in common with Eisenhower than Romney or Bush ever had.
 
2012-09-15 05:37:28 PM  
Good read.
 
2012-09-15 06:02:02 PM  

brantgoose: Wow, that might be the wisest thing said and the biggest intellectual discovery by a Republican in a century. Unless you're counting Lincoln as a Republican, but by today's standards he's a batshat insane Fiberal or at the very best, a RINO, since the great flip-flop in which the Republican Party sold it's soul to the Devil for the Southern White Cracker vote.


But... but... but... Robert Byrd!
 
2012-09-15 06:34:49 PM  
From then on, I started to notice a lot more reality. I noticed that the criminal justice system treats minorities differently in subtle as well as not-so-subtle ways, and that many of the people who were getting swept up by the system came from this underclass that I knew so little about. Lingering for months in lock-up for misdemeanors, getting pressed against the hood and frisked during routine traffic stops, being pulled over in white neighborhoods for "driving while black": these are things that never happen to people in my world. Not having experienced it, I had always assumed that government force was only used against guilty people. (Maybe that's why we middle-class white people collectively freak out at TSA airport pat-downs.)

Stood in firelight, sweltering. Bloodstain on chest like map of violent new continent. Felt cleansed. Felt dark planet turn under my feet and knew what cats know that makes them scream like babies in night. Looked at sky through smoke heavy with human fat and God was not there. The cold, suffocating dark goes on forever and we are alone. Live our lives, lacking anything better to do. Devise reason later. Born from oblivion; bear children, hell-bound as ourselves, go into oblivion. There is nothing else. Existence is random. Has no pattern save what we imagine after staring at it for too long. No meaning save what we choose to impose. This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It's us. Only us. Streets stank of fire. The void breathed hard on my heart, turning its illusions to ice, shattering them. Was reborn then, free to scrawl own design on this morally blank world. Was Rorschach. Does that answer your questions, Doctor?
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-09-15 06:35:59 PM  
It's kind of funny to me to think that the phrase "lifting yourself up by your bootstraps" refers to something that can't be done, as in something that only an idiot would think was possible.
 
2012-09-15 06:41:10 PM  
Yo! Weav? Whatchu smokin?

Good sh*t?
 
2012-09-15 06:46:44 PM  
It always amazes me there are people out there who are dumb enough to believe the bootstrap bullshiat. You notice it's always people who are already on top of things too, and got there because they started there. It's just another example of confirmation bias. Just like every other conservative economic idea, it utterly fails to work once you actually try it in the real world.
 
2012-09-15 06:51:37 PM  
a good read indeed.

it reminds me when my very republican boss once wondered why people went without health insurance. "why don't they just go on medicaid?" he asked. the fact that tens of millions of working people don't qualify for medicaid yet can't afford private insurance just never occurred to him.
 
2012-09-15 06:54:10 PM  

FlashHarry: the fact that tens of millions of working people don't qualify for medicaid yet can't afford private insurance just never occurred to him.


I bet according to your boss they could if they stopped spending money on "luxuries".

/where "luxuries" include air conditioning, refrigerators and an apartment that isn't in the bad part of town.
 
2012-09-15 06:54:58 PM  
*rtfa*

Holy crap, *I* could've written that article! :-/ It's amazing the things you learn when you decide to step out of the echo chamber...
 
2012-09-15 06:58:29 PM  

Weaver95: From then on, I started to notice a lot more reality. I noticed that the criminal justice system treats minorities differently in subtle as well as not-so-subtle ways, and that many of the people who were getting swept up by the system came from this underclass that I knew so little about. Lingering for months in lock-up for misdemeanors, getting pressed against the hood and frisked during routine traffic stops, being pulled over in white neighborhoods for "driving while black": these are things that never happen to people in my world. Not having experienced it, I had always assumed that government force was only used against guilty people. (Maybe that's why we middle-class white people collectively freak out at TSA airport pat-downs.)


And this is why we need social science and the teaching of critical thinking skills, so that people can identify when they see this phenomena unfold in daily life. It's great that this guy was able to realize what's going on.

And motherfarkin' this when it comes to TSA freakouts. It's always amused me how that has emerged as the biggest civil rights violation in the past hundred years for so many white folk. But warrantless wiretapping, drone attacks, stop-and-frisk, our racist drug laws, etc. Nah, those peeps are guilty!
 
2012-09-15 07:04:25 PM  

themindiswatching: I bet according to your boss they could if they stopped spending money on "luxuries".

/where "luxuries" include air conditioning, refrigerators and an apartment that isn't in the bad part of town.


i'm sure.

this is an otherwise very intelligent man. it's really bizarre. but he listens to rush and hannity during the day and watches fox news at night. i mean, the man is managing director of an advertising agency. he is a millionaire with several houses. he lives in a gated community. he exists in a bubble. it's no wonder he thinks what he thinks.
 
2012-09-15 07:05:19 PM  
*finishes rtfa*

Best. Article. EVAH. Wouldn't it be nice if Rockefeller Republicans could reclaim the GOP and purge it of its derp...
 
2012-09-15 07:05:37 PM  

vpb: It's kind of funny to me to think that the phrase "lifting yourself up by your bootstraps" refers to something that can't be done, as in something that only an idiot would think was possible.


You cut the bootstraps off, sling them around a rock, and pull yourself up on the leather.

You think outside the box, make a new product/service, and found your own company.
 
2012-09-15 07:07:28 PM  

xanadian: *finishes rtfa*

Best. Article. EVAH. Wouldn't it be nice if Rockefeller Republicans could reclaim the GOP and purge it of its derp...


At least on economic issues, Democrats are essentially Rockefeller Republicans. Maybe if the GOP moves towards the center the Democratic Party could actually move towards where Bernie Sanders is ideologically and then we would have a more balanced ideological mix.
 
2012-09-15 07:09:06 PM  

vpb: It's kind of funny to me to think that the phrase "lifting yourself up by your bootstraps" refers to something that can't be done, as in something that only an idiot would think was possible.


Exactly right. It's designed to be parodic.
 
2012-09-15 07:20:04 PM  

FlashHarry: a good read indeed.

it reminds me when my very republican boss once wondered why people went without health insurance. "why don't they just go on medicaid?" he asked. the fact that tens of millions of working people don't qualify for medicaid yet can't afford private insurance just never occurred to him.


Not quite the same thing but on Tuesday a co-worker and myself had a discussion about why same sex couples want the right to get married. (I am a social worker and part of my job is working with the LGBT community so it was actually a work conversation) He refused to believe that a birth/blood family can just walk in and make medical decisions and shut out the partner. He also said "That never happens" about said family coming in and being able to take whatever from the deceased estate and just leave the partner farked or even with other legal documents in place the family can sue and win if the judge is a shiathead. I asked how he would feel if his wife's great aunt came in, claimed her body, and then banned him from the funeral. Really, he said that would never happen because people don't act like that. How damn naive can someone be?
 
2012-09-15 07:26:17 PM  

Gwendolyn: FlashHarry: a good read indeed.

it reminds me when my very republican boss once wondered why people went without health insurance. "why don't they just go on medicaid?" he asked. the fact that tens of millions of working people don't qualify for medicaid yet can't afford private insurance just never occurred to him.

Not quite the same thing but on Tuesday a co-worker and myself had a discussion about why same sex couples want the right to get married. (I am a social worker and part of my job is working with the LGBT community so it was actually a work conversation) He refused to believe that a birth/blood family can just walk in and make medical decisions and shut out the partner. He also said "That never happens" about said family coming in and being able to take whatever from the deceased estate and just leave the partner farked or even with other legal documents in place the family can sue and win if the judge is a shiathead. I asked how he would feel if his wife's great aunt came in, claimed her body, and then banned him from the funeral. Really, he said that would never happen because people don't act like that. How damn naive can someone be?


That's a rhetorical question, right?
 
2012-09-15 07:32:27 PM  

Gwendolyn: FlashHarry: a good read indeed.

it reminds me when my very republican boss once wondered why people went without health insurance. "why don't they just go on medicaid?" he asked. the fact that tens of millions of working people don't qualify for medicaid yet can't afford private insurance just never occurred to him.

Not quite the same thing but on Tuesday a co-worker and myself had a discussion about why same sex couples want the right to get married. (I am a social worker and part of my job is working with the LGBT community so it was actually a work conversation) He refused to believe that a birth/blood family can just walk in and make medical decisions and shut out the partner. He also said "That never happens" about said family coming in and being able to take whatever from the deceased estate and just leave the partner farked or even with other legal documents in place the family can sue and win if the judge is a shiathead. I asked how he would feel if his wife's great aunt came in, claimed her body, and then banned him from the funeral. Really, he said that would never happen because people don't act like that. How damn naive can someone be?


...hell, all he has to do is look at the Terry Schiavo situation to see what dickheads family can be. And that was a straight couple...
 
2012-09-15 07:32:57 PM  

Techhell:
That's a rhetorical question, right?


yes.
 
2012-09-15 07:59:39 PM  
A good read, but it does seem very familiar. Wasn't there one exactly like this not too long ago?
 
2012-09-15 08:10:04 PM  

xanadian: *rtfa*

Holy crap, *I* could've written that article! :-/ It's amazing the things you learn when you decide to step out of the echo chamber...


Yeah, I work with a guy like that. In his late 50s, came to DC as part of the Reagan Revolution 30 years ago, drank the Republican kool-aid and waited for the day they had complete power and could implement their ideas. So then Bush Jr. got power and they implemented Medicare Part D and went to war twice on the credit card and... well, he converted. He realized it was all bullshiat, they were bullshiat, and the greatest evil wasn't the "government," it was using the government to start wars for no reason. So that's how he votes now. The farther D's can move from R foreign policy, the better for them (& the country) IMO.
 
2012-09-15 08:13:32 PM  

xanadian: *rtfa*

Holy crap, *I* could've written that article! :-/ It's amazing the things you learn when you decide to step out of the echo chamber...


Me too.
 
2012-09-15 08:20:03 PM  

Gwendolyn: FlashHarry: a good read indeed.

it reminds me when my very republican boss once wondered why people went without health insurance. "why don't they just go on medicaid?" he asked. the fact that tens of millions of working people don't qualify for medicaid yet can't afford private insurance just never occurred to him.

Not quite the same thing but on Tuesday a co-worker and myself had a discussion about why same sex couples want the right to get married. (I am a social worker and part of my job is working with the LGBT community so it was actually a work conversation) He refused to believe that a birth/blood family can just walk in and make medical decisions and shut out the partner. He also said "That never happens" about said family coming in and being able to take whatever from the deceased estate and just leave the partner farked or even with other legal documents in place the family can sue and win if the judge is a shiathead. I asked how he would feel if his wife's great aunt came in, claimed her body, and then banned him from the funeral. Really, he said that would never happen because people don't act like that. How damn naive can someone be?


He's not naive, he's willfully naive. And that pisses me off.
 
2012-09-15 08:30:06 PM  
I could have sworn this article got a greenlight when it first came out. If so, it's good enough that it freaking deserves the repeat.
 
2012-09-15 08:36:25 PM  
Oh, and even though he didn't say this, I think it's clear that he now believes that freedom can be infringed upon by private as well as public sources. Government sometimes must intervene to maximize freedom, and it must sometimes get out of the way to maximize freedom.

/disclaimer: I don't necessarily believe maximizing freedom is always the right goal
 
2012-09-15 08:40:41 PM  

GAT_00: It always amazes me there are people out there who are dumb enough to believe the bootstrap bullshiat. You notice it's always people who are already on top of things too, and got there because they started there. It's just another example of confirmation bias. Just like every other conservative economic idea, it utterly fails to work once you actually try it in the real world.


I know I'm guilty of throwing around "conservative" as a broad-brush term, myself, but let's be honest and call it underlying problem what it is: Laissez-faire economics.

/also because we can't afford to let libertarians off the hook for simply removing 'conservative' from their self-identification
//they're as much to blame for our economic mess as are republicans - in fact they're the original purveyors of said horseshiat
 
2012-09-15 08:43:02 PM  
Gwendolyn

just walk in and make medical decisions and shut out the partner.

Even in a pretty queer friendly part of the country ( many queer folks come to the north bay to get out of the city ) , sometimes the gvt can as well.
Link 

Sigh. 

A good read, repeat or not ( idk if it is ).Thanks subby
 
2012-09-15 08:48:52 PM  

Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: xanadian: *rtfa*

Holy crap, *I* could've written that article! :-/ It's amazing the things you learn when you decide to step out of the echo chamber...

Yeah, I work with a guy like that. In his late 50s, came to DC as part of the Reagan Revolution 30 years ago, drank the Republican kool-aid and waited for the day they had complete power and could implement their ideas. So then Bush Jr. got power and they implemented Medicare Part D and went to war twice on the credit card and... well, he converted. He realized it was all bullshiat, they were bullshiat, and the greatest evil wasn't the "government," it was using the government to start wars for no reason. So that's how he votes now. The farther D's can move from R foreign policy, the better for them (& the country) IMO.


Ya know, I can kind of sympathize with the idea of "spreading democracy" through foreign intervention. The biggest problem is, just from looking at the state of Iraq and Afghanistan, we suck at it.

The ONLY guy to get it right in the past 12 years is Obama. A DEMOCRAT. Srsly, WTF
 
2012-09-15 08:55:30 PM  
Work is hard, so I quit.

Yep, sounds like he belongs with the Democrats.
 
2012-09-15 08:59:42 PM  

serial_crusher: Work is hard, so I quit.

Yep, sounds like he belongs with the Democrats.


...and that right there is why you're still a Republican*

*or whatever flavor of "Independent" y'all are calling yourselves these days.
 
2012-09-15 09:12:07 PM  

xanadian: Wouldn't it be nice if Rockefeller Republicans could reclaim the GOP and purge it of its derp...


The old-school Republicans are less than a quarter of the current GOP. It's more likely a purge will go in the other direction.
 
2012-09-15 09:13:37 PM  
Ever notice how Republicans talk about spreading democracy through military intervention abroad, but also like to proclaim that the U.S. is NOT a democracy ("it's a Republican!!!")?
 
2012-09-15 09:15:36 PM  

coco ebert: Weaver95: From then on, I started to notice a lot more reality. I noticed that the criminal justice system treats minorities differently in subtle as well as not-so-subtle ways, and that many of the people who were getting swept up by the system came from this underclass that I knew so little about. Lingering for months in lock-up for misdemeanors, getting pressed against the hood and frisked during routine traffic stops, being pulled over in white neighborhoods for "driving while black": these are things that never happen to people in my world. Not having experienced it, I had always assumed that government force was only used against guilty people. (Maybe that's why we middle-class white people collectively freak out at TSA airport pat-downs.)

And this is why we need social science and the teaching of critical thinking skills, so that people can identify when they see this phenomena unfold in daily life. It's great that this guy was able to realize what's going on.

And motherfarkin' this when it comes to TSA freakouts. It's always amused me how that has emerged as the biggest civil rights violation in the past hundred years for so many white folk. But warrantless wiretapping, drone attacks, stop-and-frisk, our racist drug laws, etc. Nah, those peeps are guilty!


This.
 
2012-09-15 09:16:12 PM  
I tried running my own business for a year and a half. Did vaguely OK. It was a *lot* of work -- which is why the stereotypical business owner credits his own hard work, and primarily if not exclusively, for his success -- and other people's failures to also be successful.

My brother-in-law has a successful business for about ten years now. Good guy, love to see him, but learned really quickly do not EVER do anything with him where money is involved, he'll rip your face off. Just try to go on a vacation with someone where you split a house rental, for example. A friend of mine went into business with him briefly ... they aren't on the best of terms anymore.

I know another business owner who I've worked for more than once who is the complete opposite, goes out of his way to be generous and helpful to me.

Both successful business owners, different personalities. You can be a crazy-driven workaholic face-ripper, or not; but there's a hell of a lot of luck involved.
 
2012-09-15 09:17:38 PM  
To me he sounds like a socialist who hates America.
 
2012-09-15 09:17:44 PM  

Weaver95: From then on, I started to notice a lot more reality. I noticed that the criminal justice system treats minorities differently in subtle as well as not-so-subtle ways, and that many of the people who were getting swept up by the system came from this underclass that I knew so little about. Lingering for months in lock-up for misdemeanors, getting pressed against the hood and frisked during routine traffic stops, being pulled over in white neighborhoods for "driving while black": these are things that never happen to people in my world. Not having experienced it, I had always assumed that government force was only used against guilty people. (Maybe that's why we middle-class white people collectively freak out at TSA airport pat-downs.)

Stood in firelight, sweltering. Bloodstain on chest like map of violent new continent. Felt cleansed. Felt dark planet turn under my feet and knew what cats know that makes them scream like babies in night. Looked at sky through smoke heavy with human fat and God was not there. The cold, suffocating dark goes on forever and we are alone. Live our lives, lacking anything better to do. Devise reason later. Born from oblivion; bear children, hell-bound as ourselves, go into oblivion. There is nothing else. Existence is random. Has no pattern save what we imagine after staring at it for too long. No meaning save what we choose to impose. This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It's us. Only us. Streets stank of fire. The void breathed hard on my heart, turning its illusions to ice, shattering them. Was reborn then, free to scrawl own design on this morally blank world. Was Rorschach. Does that answer your questions, Doctor?


Wow, alrighty then:)
Arma Goddamn Motherfarkin Geddon NSFW lyrics. O_O
 
2012-09-15 09:20:12 PM  

brantgoose: Wow, that might be the wisest thing said and the biggest intellectual discovery by a Republican in a century. Unless you're counting Lincoln as a Republican, but by today's standards he's a batshat insane Fiberal or at the very best, a RINO, since the great flip-flop in which the Republican Party sold it's soul to the Devil for the Southern White Cracker vote.


Seriously: Lincoln pulled one of the greatest flip flops of all time in the Civil War by changing the entire purpose of the war mid-conflict, similar to Bush's flip flip in 2004 heading into the election. Bush is no Lincoln, but the parallels are still there, including a balky Pentagon brass.
 
2012-09-15 09:21:11 PM  

serial_crusher: Work is hard, so I quit.

Yep, sounds like he belongs with the Democrats.


If you had no intelligent response, why did you choose to respond?
 
2012-09-15 09:22:57 PM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: serial_crusher: Work is hard, so I quit.

Yep, sounds like he belongs with the Democrats.

If you had no intelligent response, why did you choose to respond?


Because he's a conservative.
 
2012-09-15 09:24:03 PM  
This was also a similar story to mine, without leaving home though. As I became more aware of the real things going on around me, I could not stay in that party. The one who needs to dehumanize others in order to feel righteous.
 
2012-09-15 09:25:35 PM  
In other words, he grew up. Give it another 10-20 years and his idealism will turn into overwhelming cynycism, and he'll be right back in the Republican's arms, begging for a lower tax rate, whatever the cost
 
2012-09-15 09:31:24 PM  

doglover: vpb: It's kind of funny to me to think that the phrase "lifting yourself up by your bootstraps" refers to something that can't be done, as in something that only an idiot would think was possible.

You cut the bootstraps off, sling them around a rock, and pull yourself up on the leather.

You think outside the box, make a new product/service, and found your own company.


Yeah! You get it. The rock signifies the government, without which you wouldn't have anything to tie your bootstraps to.
 
2012-09-15 09:32:35 PM  

rev. dave: This was also a similar story to mine, without leaving home though. As I became more aware of the real things going on around me, I could not stay in that party. The one who needs to dehumanize others in order to feel righteous.


Oh and I was also not rich or in the military or any of the other varied stuff.. But even without that I still thought along some of the same lines. How long till others see the same way?
 
2012-09-15 09:40:17 PM  

rev. dave: The one who needs to dehumanize others in order to feel righteous.


serial_crusher: Work is hard, so I quit.

Yep, sounds like he belongs with the Democrats.


I am continually fascinated by the way certain ideologically strict cultures will instantaneously disown members rather than permit questioning of cherished beliefs. Realize that the playing field isn't level, come out as gay, or decide that the religion you were raised in was wrong about stuff, and you can go from "golden boy" to "unperson" in a matter of hours.
 
2012-09-15 09:41:23 PM  
Why I Left the GOP, or how I learned to stop being a sociopath and have a modicum of empathy
 
2012-09-15 09:47:18 PM  
Bootstrappiness requires bootstraps. Somewhere along the way, the Republicans forgot that.
 
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