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(Oregon Live)   When the feds report on your department's record of police brutality, it is bad form to immediately reply "This is the same DOJ or people who created Waco and Ruby Ridge" to your cop friend. It's even worse form to reply-all   (oregonlive.com) divider line 42
    More: Dumbass, Ruby Ridge, police violence, Waco, DOJ, Branch-Davidians, portland police  
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5516 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Sep 2012 at 3:52 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



42 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2012-09-15 03:55:09 AM  
Truth effin' hurts......Feds some of the worst in the world.
 
2012-09-15 04:29:02 AM  
Not to excuse police brutality, ever, but he does make a salient point.
 
2012-09-15 04:29:38 AM  
It's okay, though. Portland Police usually only beat the mentally ill, they shoot the blacks.

/Live in Salem
//Work in Portland
///Am ever-so-glad I'm white, when I see PPB driving behind me.
 
2012-09-15 04:30:43 AM  
Meh, Waco was entire BATFE's fault (ATF then) more than anything, they were the cowboys who figured they could blaze their way through any problem and ended up putting the DoJ (and thus FBI) in a nearly impossible situation to extricate from.

Plus, if the guy is going to compare himself to the patriots that stood against government aggression, maybe he could actually do something to warrant guns drawn and shots fired... It's been a slow news week in the states, the goatherders and stolen all of the news. Be an hero! You can do it!
 
2012-09-15 04:34:07 AM  

MmmmBacon: It's okay, though. Portland Police usually only beat the mentally ill, they shoot the blacks.

/Live in Salem
//Work in Portland
///Am ever-so-glad I'm white, when I see PPB driving behind me.


North Marion County (Salem et al) still has the dickest of the dick officers. At least in Jackson and Jefferson, my old stomping grounds, they'd just hassle you for a while before they sent you on your way.

/Experience may not apply to blacks - I can't remember ever having seen a single black in my entire life in Oregon, except in passing at PDX.
 
2012-09-15 04:57:20 AM  
Adversarial thinking creates adversarial behavior. "Us vs them" attitude creates "us vs them" situation. Thus, authority figures think people are crap and people think authority figures are crap.

/news at 11
 
2012-09-15 05:14:34 AM  

foxyshadis: MmmmBacon: It's okay, though. Portland Police usually only beat the mentally ill, they shoot the blacks.

/Live in Salem
//Work in Portland
///Am ever-so-glad I'm white, when I see PPB driving behind me.

North Marion County (Salem et al) still has the dickest of the dick officers. At least in Jackson and Jefferson, my old stomping grounds, they'd just hassle you for a while before they sent you on your way.

/Experience may not apply to blacks - I can't remember ever having seen a single black in my entire life in Oregon, except in passing at PDX.


True, the Marion County Sheriffs Department are far from quality police. I know a few good ones, but I've met some really bad ones. But they pale in comparison to the Portland Police Bureau, who take "Bad Cop" to a whole new level.
 
2012-09-15 05:24:20 AM  

MmmmBacon: foxyshadis: MmmmBacon: It's okay, though. Portland Police usually only beat the mentally ill, they shoot the blacks.

/Live in Salem
//Work in Portland
///Am ever-so-glad I'm white, when I see PPB driving behind me.

North Marion County (Salem et al) still has the dickest of the dick officers. At least in Jackson and Jefferson, my old stomping grounds, they'd just hassle you for a while before they sent you on your way.

/Experience may not apply to blacks - I can't remember ever having seen a single black in my entire life in Oregon, except in passing at PDX.

True, the Marion County Sheriffs Department are far from quality police. I know a few good ones, but I've met some really bad ones. But they pale in comparison to the Portland Police Bureau, who take "Bad Cop" to a whole new level.


PDX where 'enhanced surveillance' is an art form. Too bad, it's a cool city.
 
2012-09-15 05:29:07 AM  

AbbeySomeone: MmmmBacon: foxyshadis: MmmmBacon: It's okay, though. Portland Police usually only beat the mentally ill, they shoot the blacks.

/Live in Salem
//Work in Portland
///Am ever-so-glad I'm white, when I see PPB driving behind me.

North Marion County (Salem et al) still has the dickest of the dick officers. At least in Jackson and Jefferson, my old stomping grounds, they'd just hassle you for a while before they sent you on your way.

/Experience may not apply to blacks - I can't remember ever having seen a single black in my entire life in Oregon, except in passing at PDX.

True, the Marion County Sheriffs Department are far from quality police. I know a few good ones, but I've met some really bad ones. But they pale in comparison to the Portland Police Bureau, who take "Bad Cop" to a whole new level.

PDX where 'enhanced surveillance' is an art form. Too bad, it's a cool city.


Indeed it is a cool city. I'd love to live in the Hawthorne District, there's some great old houses there, not to mention the shops and restaurants.
 
2012-09-15 06:02:41 AM  
FTA: "Quite frankly, we're being judged by people who don't have much law enforcement experience."

Don't cry Emo Officer.
 
2012-09-15 06:50:37 AM  

MmmmBacon: foxyshadis: MmmmBacon: It's okay, though. Portland Police usually only beat the mentally ill, they shoot the blacks.

/Live in Salem
//Work in Portland
///Am ever-so-glad I'm white, when I see PPB driving behind me.

North Marion County (Salem et al) still has the dickest of the dick officers. At least in Jackson and Jefferson, my old stomping grounds, they'd just hassle you for a while before they sent you on your way.

/Experience may not apply to blacks - I can't remember ever having seen a single black in my entire life in Oregon, except in passing at PDX.

True, the Marion County Sheriffs Department are far from quality police. I know a few good ones, but I've met some really bad ones. But they pale in comparison to the Portland Police Bureau, who take "Bad Cop" to a whole new level.


My brother's pursuing a criminal justice degree at CCC, so he's spent time with a lot of cops from different departments. He says even among other PDs Portland's got a bad reputation for being assholes.
 
2012-09-15 07:51:30 AM  
foxyshadis

Meh, Waco was entire BATFE's fault (ATF then) more than anything, they were the cowboys who figured they could blaze their way through any problem and ended up putting the DoJ (and thus FBI) in a nearly impossible situation to extricate from.

Wrong.
Admitting the atf initiated an unnecessary and illegal raid would have pretty much ended it.
 
2012-09-15 07:54:37 AM  

OnlyM3: foxyshadis

Meh, Waco was entire BATFE's fault (ATF then) more than anything, they were the cowboys who figured they could blaze their way through any problem and ended up putting the DoJ (and thus FBI) in a nearly impossible situation to extricate from.
Wrong.
Admitting the atf initiated an unnecessary and illegal raid would have pretty much ended it.


'Illegal'? Possibly. And of course I don't think you'd get anyone here to challenge it as bungled, in any case.

I think 'unnecessary' is still up for debate.
 
2012-09-15 08:02:43 AM  
Are people upset about the e-mail....or upset that it was factual?
 
2012-09-15 08:05:52 AM  
Odd.
As much as I despise the police as a farked up institution/police brutality committing pigs, in my experience Portland police officers are the kind of people that would try to fark with people on a legal technicality than serve a beating and I even met one or two not-an-asshole cops there, despite their job.
/Six up!
 
2012-09-15 08:11:01 AM  

m2313: Odd.
As much as I despise the police as a farked up institution/police brutality committing pigs, in my experience Portland police officers are the kind of people that would try to fark with people on a legal technicality than serve a beating and I even met one or two not-an-asshole cops there, despite their job.
/Six up!


Although I must qualify I'm white and Portland is the whitest goddamn city I've ever been to, maybe they spend their time targeting racial minorities instead of being equal opportunity gang members.
 
2012-09-15 08:19:18 AM  
Ya.... Pot, Kettle, both calling each other black.

Fark cops, local, state, fed, all of them! They're nothing but a bunch of thugs with guns who care more about collecting fines and jailing people for their self-important, purchased bosses. I've been saying it since 2000, we're likely going to die in a military/police state with nothing left but the 'right' to work.

/No use for cops
/needs out of the farking city
 
2012-09-15 09:30:12 AM  
Can't we agree that all law enforcement is horribly out of control?
 
2012-09-15 09:35:32 AM  

SkunkWerks: FTA: "Quite frankly, we're being judged by people who don't have much law enforcement experience."

Don't cry Emo Officer.


I suppose he thinks it would be better if they were only "judged" by other cops, then? I think not, Officer Dumbass.
 
2012-09-15 10:03:52 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: Can't we agree that all law enforcement is horribly out of control?


I don't know. They've been handy for me from time to time. Never while I was in danger mind you but they are a wonderful anonymous way to stop obnoxious late night parties.
 
2012-09-15 10:04:32 AM  

SkunkWerks: FTA: "Quite frankly, we're being judged by people who don't have much law enforcement experience."

Don't cry Emo Officer.


The mentally ill: we're being beaten by people who have little experience with the mentally ill.
 
2012-09-15 10:06:28 AM  

OnlyM3: foxyshadis

Meh, Waco was entire BATFE's fault (ATF then) more than anything, they were the cowboys who figured they could blaze their way through any problem and ended up putting the DoJ (and thus FBI) in a nearly impossible situation to extricate from.
Wrong.
Admitting the atf initiated an unnecessary and illegal raid would have pretty much ended it.


Nope, One of the OKC bombers ex-gf's and her kid died in the raid. At least that was a story that had been reported at the time. There had been reports with names named and people talking about the unhappy couple yet googles aren't finding any verification of it now.
 
2012-09-15 10:24:59 AM  

fluffy2097: Marcus Aurelius: Can't we agree that all law enforcement is horribly out of control?

I don't know. They've been handy for me from time to time. Never while I was in danger mind you but they are a wonderful anonymous way to stop obnoxious late night parties.


They are handy for that, I will admit. It's even more entertaining if you can get them to send in the SWAT team.
 
2012-09-15 10:34:07 AM  

SkunkWerks: FTA: "Quite frankly, we're being judged by people who don't have much law enforcement experience."

Don't cry Emo Officer.


Only cops should judge cops, as The Lord intended.
 
2012-09-15 10:58:10 AM  
You know, the asshole douchebags are going to ruin the cop business for everyone.
 
2012-09-15 11:28:30 AM  

Lachwen: MmmmBacon: foxyshadis: MmmmBacon: It's okay, though. Portland Police usually only beat the mentally ill, they shoot the blacks.

/Live in Salem
//Work in Portland
///Am ever-so-glad I'm white, when I see PPB driving behind me.

North Marion County (Salem et al) still has the dickest of the dick officers. At least in Jackson and Jefferson, my old stomping grounds, they'd just hassle you for a while before they sent you on your way.

/Experience may not apply to blacks - I can't remember ever having seen a single black in my entire life in Oregon, except in passing at PDX.

True, the Marion County Sheriffs Department are far from quality police. I know a few good ones, but I've met some really bad ones. But they pale in comparison to the Portland Police Bureau, who take "Bad Cop" to a whole new level.

My brother's pursuing a criminal justice degree at CCC, so he's spent time with a lot of cops from different departments. He says even among other PDs Portland's got a bad reputation for being assholes.


And crooked as fark. PPD goes through police chiefs like Rosie O'Donnell goes through sammiches. I was supremely surprised that nothing at all happened when PPD was clearing the Occupy camp. Probably all because DHS was overseeing the operation. Had this been just ten years ago, they would have opened up on the crowd with CS-filled paintballs before you could say "excessive force." The City of Portland didn't spend all that money on FN Herstal riot control rifles for nothing.

The 'Burb cops write an excessive amount of tickets over bullshiatty infractions, but at least they don't just straight-up shoot you over a traffic stop.
 
2012-09-15 11:35:34 AM  

drayno76: Ya.... Pot, Kettle, both calling each other black.

Fark cops, local, state, fed, all of them! They're nothing but a bunch of thugs with guns who care more about collecting fines and jailing people for their self-important, purchased bosses. I've been saying it since 2000, we're likely going to die in a military/police state with nothing left but the 'right' to work.

/No use for cops
/needs out of the farking city


Move to Somalia then. No law enforcement of any kind there.
 
2012-09-15 12:27:36 PM  
"People around here are frustrated, to put it mildly."

Here's a thought. Your city has one of the highest homeless rates in the country. Learn how to respond to mentally disabled citizens without escalating them or find another job.
 
2012-09-15 12:51:17 PM  

thatboyoverthere: drayno76: Ya.... Pot, Kettle, both calling each other black.

Fark cops, local, state, fed, all of them! They're nothing but a bunch of thugs with guns who care more about collecting fines and jailing people for their self-important, purchased bosses. I've been saying it since 2000, we're likely going to die in a military/police state with nothing left but the 'right' to work.

/No use for cops
/needs out of the farking city

Move to Somalia then. No law enforcement of any kind there.


How cute. Never heard that before.

You sound young.
 
2012-09-15 02:17:36 PM  

Uisce Beatha: Not to excuse police brutality, ever, but he does make a salient point.


No, he doesn't. There is zero connection between the two. Besides, both Waco and Ruby Ridge were instigated under GHWBush 20 years ago. So, it's not even the same DOJ.

Aside from that, you make a salient point.
 
2012-09-15 02:19:13 PM  

DancingElkCondor: Are people upset about the e-mail....or upset that it was factual?


See my last comment. Your argument is invalid.
 
2012-09-15 04:04:52 PM  

AssAsInAssassin: Uisce Beatha: Not to excuse police brutality, ever, but he does make a salient point.

No, he doesn't. There is zero connection between the two. Besides, both Waco and Ruby Ridge were instigated under GHWBush 20 years ago. So, it's not even the same DOJ.

Aside from that, you make a salient point.


Yup, the DOJ is all good. No brutality there anymore.
 
2012-09-15 06:21:07 PM  

foxyshadis: MmmmBacon: It's okay, though. Portland Police usually only beat the mentally ill, they shoot the blacks.

/Live in Salem
//Work in Portland
///Am ever-so-glad I'm white, when I see PPB driving behind me.

North Marion County (Salem et al) still has the dickest of the dick officers. At least in Jackson and Jefferson, my old stomping grounds, they'd just hassle you for a while before they sent you on your way.

/Experience may not apply to blacks - I can't remember ever having seen a single black in my entire life in Oregon, except in passing at PDX.


I think there were maybe two or three in my entire high school - mind you, there were 1700+ kids going to school there. Oh, Oregon.
 
2012-09-15 10:41:11 PM  
media.pet-abuse.com

Dog shot to death - Portland, OR

Off-Duty Policy Officer John Hurlman shot and killed George, a friendly family dog while he was jogging through a quiet well-kept neighborhood with a .38 caliber weapon in his fanny pack. He killed the dog in full view of his owner and a neighbor, for no apparent reason.

Hurlman was charged with first and second degree animal abuse, second degree criminal mischief, and reckless endangerment of another person. All were misdemeanors, so Officer Hurlman was placed on administrative leave by the Portland Police Department.

Hurlman was indicted by a grand jury on several charges, including unlawful use of a firearm and cruelty to animals.

Charges were eventually dropped in exchange for Hurlman paying $10,000 to Jane Schiedler, the dogs owner for their loss. He also had to write an apology and do 32 hours of community service.
 

Still on duty, on the public's payroll. Another hero in blue.
 
2012-09-16 12:02:33 AM  

Uisce Beatha: AssAsInAssassin: Uisce Beatha: Not to excuse police brutality, ever, but he does make a salient point.

No, he doesn't. There is zero connection between the two. Besides, both Waco and Ruby Ridge were instigated under GHWBush 20 years ago. So, it's not even the same DOJ.

Aside from that, you make a salient point.

Yup, the DOJ is all good. No brutality there anymore.


Nice straw man fallacy. All I said is, it's not the same DOJ, and it has no bearing on whether the Portland PD is guilty of using excessive force.

Good luck with your emotional development.
 
2012-09-16 12:54:11 AM  

AssAsInAssassin: Nice straw man fallacy. All I said is, it's not the same DOJ


Straw man? You know the words, but do you know what they mean? Straw man: "The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. This sort of "reasoning" has the following pattern: "

I addressed your point. Not the same DoJ in what way? The institution still has the same flaws. Who is president has little to no bearing there, as shown.

"it has no bearing on whether the Portland PD is guilty of using excessive force."
I never said it did. In fact, my very first statement was there was no excuse for police brutality. And you never mentioned whether it had bearing , so nice red herring.

Good luck with your emotional development.
And a nice ad hominem to wrap it up. Come back when you can learn to present a case logically, and not just erroneously toss around big phrases.
 
2012-09-16 01:07:29 AM  
Google video search "Waco New Revelation". Documentary focuses on the physical evidence rather than the negotiator. Turns out to be far more damning, especially when it's revealed that incineary tear gas grenades were found at all three points of the fire that the arson investigators determined to the be fire ignition points.

As for Portland PD, can someone point me towards a big city PD that DOESN'T do this kind of shiat?
 
2012-09-16 09:55:31 AM  

Uisce Beatha: AssAsInAssassin: Nice straw man fallacy. All I said is, it's not the same DOJ

Straw man? You know the words, but do you know what they mean? Straw man: "The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. This sort of "reasoning" has the following pattern: "

I addressed your point. Not the same DoJ in what way? The institution still has the same flaws. Who is president has little to no bearing there, as shown.

"it has no bearing on whether the Portland PD is guilty of using excessive force."
I never said it did. In fact, my very first statement was there was no excuse for police brutality. And you never mentioned whether it had bearing , so nice red herring.

Good luck with your emotional development.
And a nice ad hominem to wrap it up. Come back when you can learn to present a case logically, and not just erroneously toss around big phrases.


The quote is "This is the same DOJ or people who created Waco and Ruby Ridge." It is neither, and it is irrelevant, besides.

Sorry, chum, you're going to have to come to terms with the fact that you said something stupid. Insisting it's true won't make it so. It will just make you look stupider with each iteration.
 
2012-09-16 10:06:56 AM  

AssAsInAssassin: It is neither, and it is irrelevant, besides.


You are stating several things as fact without backing them up.

It is neither in what way? It still has the same mission, and follows or disregards laws and regulations in a similar fashion (see previous - they still have a problem in their own house with excessive force). So, that statement is fallacious.

It is irrelevant in what way? It is exactly the opposite - would you trust a slob to clean and organize your house? Probably not. That isn't to say there isn't a mess that needs cleaning, but someone who is able to clean should be the one trying to identify and fix the problem.

So sorry, chum, you keep restating something stupid. Insisting that it is true won't make it so. But feel free to try and bring some actual facts to bear, I am always willing to be convinced. You just haven't managed to do so.
 
2012-09-16 01:09:30 PM  
The same people are not in charge. Backlash from Ruby Ridge and Waco led to stricter oversight and changes in procedure.

You might as well say we have the same Congress we had 20 years ago.
 
2012-09-16 01:28:52 PM  

AssAsInAssassin: The same people are not in charge.


The people are the smallest factor in the running of a monolithic organization, especially a government one.

Backlash from Ruby Ridge and Waco led to stricter oversight and changes in procedure.

Citation needed. As I said, I am willing to be convinced, but from where I sit, it looks like they still need to get their house in order.

You might as well say we have the same Congress we had 20 years ago.

Sure, different Congressmen, but they still have the same stink, the same problems with influence peddling, etc. So while Congress itself isn't the same people, they still have similar issues as they had 20 years ago, so that kinda proves my point.
 
2012-09-16 11:43:34 PM  
"Waco" "Ruby Ridge"

Like pheromones for sociopath creeps.
 
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