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(Americans for Tax Reform)   IRS has another "Message: I care" moment   ( atr.org) divider line
    More: Asinine, IRS  
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3077 clicks; posted to Politics » on 14 Sep 2012 at 4:17 PM (5 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-14 12:50:18 PM  
In order to comply, a small business owner has to file Form 8941 with the IRS. This 20-line form requires employers to report the number of employees they have, the average amount they are paying them, the total amount spent in premiums on them, and the average premiums for small-group coverage in their area. And that's just if you have a simple situation.

Alternatively, employers can simply deduct their insurance premiums as a business expense and be done with it. That's what most if not all small employers will continue to do.


Yup.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-09-14 01:01:18 PM  
Oh no! a Form? Like with writing and stuff?
 
2012-09-14 01:18:25 PM  

vpb: Oh no! a Form? Like with writing and stuff?


They'd probably have to read the form and as we all know...

lh6.googleusercontent.comView Full Size
 
2012-09-14 02:16:25 PM  

vpb: Oh no! a Form? Like with writing and stuff?


As I said yesterday:

Dancin_In_Anson: 1 form

17 hours

???

no profit

 
2012-09-14 04:21:11 PM  
Small employers aren't using it.

Ummm, didn't this just recently become available. How could small employers use something that previously didn't exist.
 
2012-09-14 04:21:42 PM  
imageshack.usView Full Size
 
2012-09-14 04:21:44 PM  
20 whole lines?

Romney, save us from this farce!
 
2012-09-14 04:21:48 PM  
I bet 16 of the 20 pages are instructions and definitions.
 
2012-09-14 04:21:51 PM  

Lsherm: n order to comply, a small business owner has to file Form 8941 with the IRS. This 20-line form requires employers to report the number of employees they have, the average amount they are paying them, the total amount spent in premiums on them, and the average premiums for small-group coverage in their area. And that's just if you have a simple situation.


Um... 20 lines. Seems like a pretty short, direct form to fill out. So what the fark?
 
2012-09-14 04:22:35 PM  

Muta: I bet 16 of the 20 pages are instructions and definitions.


Not pages. Lines. As in, 20 parts you have to fill out. Maybe the length of a 1040.
 
2012-09-14 04:23:50 PM  

Muta: I bet 16 of the 20 pages are instructions and definitions.


I mis-read that. It's 20 lines. If a business owner can't fill out a 20 line form then he probably isn't going to be in business very long. F 'em!
 
2012-09-14 04:24:23 PM  
A ONE page form, or as article states it a 20 line form (because 20 lines sounds scarier).

Also the testimony is stated by the article to imply that no-one is taking the credit, except nothing in the testimony actually says that. They aren't just reading through the lines, they are imagining fake presidents in fake chairs inside those lines.

"
The IRS conducted an extensive outreach and implementation program for the Small Business Health Care Tax Credit. Shortly after the ACA [Affordable Care Act, aka Obamacare] was passed, the IRS determined the necessary steps to both implement the credit and track these efforts. The IRS conducted significant outreach, communication, and educational activities to inform small businesses and tax professionals about the credit.

We created a special page on our web site, IRS.gov, just for the Small Business Health Care Tax Credit. From there, taxpayers could use a step-by-step guide to see if they qualified for the credit and how to claim it. There are also links to a Question and Answer section, a special You Tube video, legal guidance, news releases, and information flyers.
"
 
2012-09-14 04:24:28 PM  
submitter your blog is bad and you should feel stupid
 
2012-09-14 04:27:01 PM  
MindStalker:

I fail to see how the author jumps to their conclusion, unless they had a conclusion in mind, and decided to fill the massive gaps in with manure.
 
2012-09-14 04:27:04 PM  

Bloody William: Lsherm: n order to comply, a small business owner has to file Form 8941 with the IRS. This 20-line form requires employers to report the number of employees they have, the average amount they are paying them, the total amount spent in premiums on them, and the average premiums for small-group coverage in their area. And that's just if you have a simple situation.

Um... 20 lines. Seems like a pretty short, direct form to fill out. So what the fark?


The massive PR blitz this spring by both IRS and HHS is more evidence.
Either they are selling a turkey, or they do not know how to sell.
 
2012-09-14 04:32:02 PM  
DIAF Grover Norquist. And drag the admins who keep greenlighting this shiat with you.
 
2012-09-14 04:32:14 PM  
Any website that opens with Ted "I shiat my pants to dodge the draft" Nugent pop-ups is probably full of nothing but herp and derp.
 
2012-09-14 04:32:15 PM  
So the tax code isn't "too complicated" when it includes provisions you like. Got it.
 
2012-09-14 04:32:29 PM  

smitty04: Bloody William: Lsherm: n order to comply, a small business owner has to file Form 8941 with the IRS. This 20-line form requires employers to report the number of employees they have, the average amount they are paying them, the total amount spent in premiums on them, and the average premiums for small-group coverage in their area. And that's just if you have a simple situation.

Um... 20 lines. Seems like a pretty short, direct form to fill out. So what the fark?

The massive PR blitz this spring by both IRS and HHS is more evidence.
Either they are selling a turkey, or they do not know how to sell.


Tax services, like turkey, sell much more during certain times of the year.
 
2012-09-14 04:33:51 PM  
"and the average premiums for small-group coverage in their area. "

Why and how is an employer supposed to provide that info?
 
2012-09-14 04:36:41 PM  
If you can't fill out a 20-line IRS form, Great Skywizard, help your soul. You're screwed.

Alternatively, you can support universal, single-payer healthcare in the US, which will eliminate this dreaded paperwork problem for you altogether. Wouldn't your life be much easier if you didn't have to deal with employee health insurance?

20 line IRS forms or healthcare for everybody that you don't have to administer. Those are your choices.

/small business owner
/get a clue, other small business owners
 
2012-09-14 04:38:46 PM  

Bloody William: Um... 20 lines. Seems like a pretty short, direct form to fill out. So what the fark?


9 pages of instructions. Page 9 explains the biggest problem which I alluded to in my
img1.fark.netView Full Size
 
2012-09-14 04:40:23 PM  

smitty04: Either they are selling a turkey, or they do not know how to sell.


Or they've sold plenty, but it won't show up until next year, because it just came out. Whichever.

/Actually likes the IRS.
//They just want the money, not hassling people.
///State agencies are a pain the ass.
 
2012-09-14 04:41:00 PM  

pizen: vpb: Oh no! a Form? Like with writing and stuff?

They'd probably have to read the form and as we all know...

[lh6.googleusercontent.com image 512x512]


Know how I know you've never run a small business?
 
2012-09-14 04:41:33 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: Bloody William: Um... 20 lines. Seems like a pretty short, direct form to fill out. So what the fark?

9 pages of instructions. Page 9 explains the biggest problem which I alluded to in my [img1.fark.net image 54x11]


17 hours? HOLY CRAPSNACKS. Even "preparation and filing" is almost 2 hours. FOR A SINGLE FORM.

Also:

BarkingUnicorn: "and the average premiums for small-group coverage in their area. "

Why and how is an employer supposed to provide that info?


This.
 
2012-09-14 04:42:30 PM  

Muta: Muta: I bet 16 of the 20 pages are instructions and definitions.

I mis-read that. It's 20 lines. If a business owner can't fill out a 20 line form then he probably isn't going to be in business very long. F 'em!


You're fired! (We're going out of business.)
 
2012-09-14 04:42:59 PM  
Americans for Tax Reform is an advocacy group and taxpayer group whose stated goal is "a system in which taxes are simpler, flatter, more visible, and lower than they are today. The government's power to control one's life derives from its power to tax. We believe that power should be minimized." It is best known for its "Taxpayer Protection Pledge," which asks candidates for federal and state office to commit themselves in writing to oppose all tax increases. Its founder and president is Grover Norquist, a conservative tax activist.

Aaaaand you can all fark right off.

Why does this troupe of selfish dickbags have it's own tag?
 
2012-09-14 04:43:10 PM  
I can't believe someone would try to make an American do 17 hours of work.
 
2012-09-14 04:44:50 PM  

LasersHurt: I can't believe someone would try to make an American do 17 hours of work.


Then I can safely assume that you'll never complain about the complexity of the Internal Revenue Code again, right?

After all, it's just a little extra work to get it right.
 
2012-09-14 04:45:25 PM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: LasersHurt: I can't believe someone would try to make an American do 17 hours of work.

Then I can safely assume that you'll never complain about the complexity of the Internal Revenue Code again, right?

After all, it's just a little extra work to get it right.


Look at you, all moving the goalposts around like that.
 
2012-09-14 04:46:01 PM  

LasersHurt: I can't believe someone would try to make an American do 17 hours of work.


Someone?

And what kind of return on that time can an employer expect?
 
2012-09-14 04:46:35 PM  
1 Enter the number of individuals you employed during the tax year who are considered
employees for purposes of this credit (see instructions) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1

2 Enter the number of full-time equivalent employees you had for the tax year (see instructions). If
you entered 25 or more, skip lines 3 through 11 and enter -0- on line 12 . . . . . . . . 2

3 Average annual wages you paid for the tax year (see instructions). If you entered $50,000 or
more, skip lines 4 through 11 and enter -0- on line 12 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3

4 Premiums you paid during the tax year for employees included on line 1 for health insurance
coverage under a qualifying arrangement (see instructions) . . . . . . . . . . . . 4

5 Premiums you would have entered on line 4 if the total premium for each employee equaled the
average premium for the small group market in which you offered health insurance coverage
(see instructions) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5

6 Enter the smaller of line 4 or line 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6

7 Multiply line 6 by the applicable percentage:
• Tax-exempt small employers, multiply line 6 by 25% (.25)
• All other small employers, multiply line 6 by 35% (.35) . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7

8 If line 2 is 10 or less, enter the amount from line 7. Otherwise, see instructions . . . . . . 8

9 If line 3 is $25,000 or less, enter the amount from line 8. Otherwise, see instructions . . . . 9

10 Enter the total amount of any state premium subsidies paid and any state tax credits available to
you for premiums included on line 4 (see instructions) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10

11 Subtract line 10 from line 4. If zero or less, enter -0- . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11

12 Enter the smaller of line 9 or line 11 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12

13 If line 12 is zero, skip lines 13 and 14 and go to line 15. Otherwise, enter the number of
employees included on line 1 for whom you paid premiums during the tax year for health
insurance coverage under a qualifying arrangement (see instructions) . . . . . . . . . 13

14 Enter the number of full-time equivalent employees you would have entered on line 2 if you only
included employees included on line 13 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14

15 Credit for small employer health insurance premiums from partnerships, S corporations,
cooperatives, estates, and trusts (see instructions) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15

16 Add lines 12 and 15. Cooperatives, estates, and trusts, go to line 17. Tax-exempt small
employers, skip lines 17 and 18 and go to line 19. Partnerships and S corporations, stop here
and report this amount on Schedule K. All others, stop here and report this amount on Form
3800, line 4h . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 16

17 Amount allocated to patrons of the cooperative or beneficiaries of the estate or trust (see
instructions) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 17

18 Cooperatives, estates, and trusts, subtract line 17 from line 16. Stop here and report this amount
on Form 3800, line 4h . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 18

19 Enter the amount you paid in 2011 for taxes considered payroll taxes for purposes of this credit
(see instructions) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 19

20 Tax-exempt small employers, enter the smaller of line 16 or line 19 here and on Form 990-T,
line 44f . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 20
 
2012-09-14 04:46:54 PM  

LasersHurt: The_Six_Fingered_Man: LasersHurt: I can't believe someone would try to make an American do 17 hours of work.

Then I can safely assume that you'll never complain about the complexity of the Internal Revenue Code again, right?

After all, it's just a little extra work to get it right.

Look at you, all moving the goalposts around like that.


Look at you, avoiding the question like that.

Is it because your current position and previous positions don't have a shred of compatibility?

Either the tax code is too complicated, or 20 lines just isn't that hard. Which is it?
 
2012-09-14 04:48:25 PM  

MindStalker: A ONE page form, or as article states it a 20 line form (because 20 lines sounds scarier).

Also the testimony is stated by the article to imply that no-one is taking the credit, except nothing in the testimony actually says that. They aren't just reading through the lines, they are imagining fake presidents in fake chairs inside those lines.

"
The IRS conducted an extensive outreach and implementation program for the Small Business Health Care Tax Credit. Shortly after the ACA [Affordable Care Act, aka Obamacare] was passed, the IRS determined the necessary steps to both implement the credit and track these efforts. The IRS conducted significant outreach, communication, and educational activities to inform small businesses and tax professionals about the credit.

We created a special page on our web site, IRS.gov, just for the Small Business Health Care Tax Credit. From there, taxpayers could use a step-by-step guide to see if they qualified for the credit and how to claim it. There are also links to a Question and Answer section, a special You Tube video, legal guidance, news releases, and information flyers.
"


Why yes, we know you suck government cock.

And swallow.

And smile.
 
2012-09-14 04:48:59 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: Bloody William: Um... 20 lines. Seems like a pretty short, direct form to fill out. So what the fark?

9 pages of instructions. Page 9 explains the biggest problem which I alluded to in my [img1.fark.net image 54x11]


That was underwhelming.
 
2012-09-14 04:50:29 PM  
It's no problem if we introduce a new provision with a new form that is so complicated that everyone applicable will likely just take the deduction anyway. This surely cost absolutely no money at all. - The IRS.
 
2012-09-14 04:52:58 PM  
A pop up on the page about Grover Norquist and Keith Olbermann? Nope that's too much douchebag for me to handle all at once.

/Your blog is bad and you should feel bad.
 
2012-09-14 04:53:19 PM  
The maximum credit goes to smaller employers -- those with 10 or fewer full-time equivalent (FTE) employees -- paying annual average wages of $25,000 or less. The credit is completely phased out for employers that have 25 or more FTEs or that pay average wages of $50,000 or more per year. Because the eligibility rules are based in part on the number of FTEs, not the number of employees, employers that use part-time workers may qualify even if they employ more than 25 individuals.

I know some mechanics that will be getting a pay cut.
 
2012-09-14 04:53:57 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: LasersHurt: I can't believe someone would try to make an American do 17 hours of work.

Someone?

And what kind of return on that time can an employer expect?


Do you honestly in ANY way believe it would take any of your revered American Businessmen 17 hours to complete that paperwork? Noting that the bulk of that is records keeping, which the employer is already doing?

Honestly.
 
2012-09-14 04:54:32 PM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: LasersHurt: The_Six_Fingered_Man: LasersHurt: I can't believe someone would try to make an American do 17 hours of work.

Then I can safely assume that you'll never complain about the complexity of the Internal Revenue Code again, right?

After all, it's just a little extra work to get it right.

Look at you, all moving the goalposts around like that.

Look at you, avoiding the question like that.

Is it because your current position and previous positions don't have a shred of compatibility?

Either the tax code is too complicated, or 20 lines just isn't that hard. Which is it?


Classic.
 
2012-09-14 04:55:11 PM  
By the comments in here it is clear that few Farkers have ever ran a business. There are already many forms that need to be filled out and filed each month. Each form and the pertinent information takes time to learn, compile and file. More paperwork is added on practically each year, so the clerical expense to fill out all this crap raises almost every year for business owners.

Unless you have run a business you are unlikely to know just how much paperwork needs to be completed each month. It is time consuming and costs money.
 
2012-09-14 04:56:25 PM  

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Why yes, we know you suck government cock.

And swallow.

And smile.


Kindly stop using all public facilities in the United States and it's territories. Thanks.
 
2012-09-14 04:57:46 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: LasersHurt: I can't believe someone would try to make an American do 17 hours of work.

Someone?

And what kind of return on that time can an employer expect?


Employers can get over it.

Let's say I work 8 hours a day. On Monday I make 20 widgets. On Tuesday I make 40 Widgets! I get paid the same amount regardless of how productive I am. It's just all gravy for the employer though!

Employers can suck it.
 
2012-09-14 05:01:32 PM  

FarkedOver: On Tuesday I make 40 Widgets! I get paid the same amount regardless of how productive I am. It's just all gravy for the employer though!


During hard times, people that make 40 widgets per day get to keep their job.
 
2012-09-14 05:02:47 PM  

Semi-Sane: By the comments in here it is clear that few Farkers have ever ran a business. There are already many forms that need to be filled out and filed each month. Each form and the pertinent information takes time to learn, compile and file. More paperwork is added on practically each year, so the clerical expense to fill out all this crap raises almost every year for business owners.

Unless you have run a business you are unlikely to know just how much paperwork needs to be completed each month. It is time consuming and costs money.


You wouldn't have to endure all of that horrible torture if you didn't run a business. The logical solution is just not having a business. Or you could stop whining and honor your responsibilities.

Alas, how fragile the rugged individualists become when faced with having to do something for themselves
 
2012-09-14 05:02:56 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: vpb: Oh no! a Form? Like with writing and stuff?

As I said yesterday:

Dancin_In_Anson: 1 form

17 hours

???

no profit


Thanks for the help. Jesus, just stop farking posting already.
 
2012-09-14 05:03:17 PM  

smitty04: FarkedOver: On Tuesday I make 40 Widgets! I get paid the same amount regardless of how productive I am. It's just all gravy for the employer though!

During hard times, people that make 40 widgets per day get to keep their job.


Which is fine and dandy but as evidence suggest productivity in the US has only gone up. How about wages? They haven't. So we have more or less an entire workforce that is capable of making 40 widgets an hour. Unless you're going to sit there and tell me that all those people that are unemployed are lazy..... Which i find really hard to believe.

But hey, this is just one of the many pitfalls of capitalism.
 
2012-09-14 05:03:31 PM  
How many lines did Rmoney have to fill out for that goddamned dancing horse deduction?
 
2012-09-14 05:03:59 PM  

FarkedOver: Dancin_In_Anson: LasersHurt: I can't believe someone would try to make an American do 17 hours of work.

Someone?

And what kind of return on that time can an employer expect?

Employers can get over it.

Let's say I work 8 hours a day. On Monday I make 20 widgets. On Tuesday I make 40 Widgets! I get paid the same amount regardless of how productive I am. It's just all gravy for the employer though!

Employers can suck it.


not if you were paid per piece produced, and yes there are places that do that
 
2012-09-14 05:08:44 PM  

loonatic112358: FarkedOver: Dancin_In_Anson: LasersHurt: I can't believe someone would try to make an American do 17 hours of work.

Someone?

And what kind of return on that time can an employer expect?

Employers can get over it.

Let's say I work 8 hours a day. On Monday I make 20 widgets. On Tuesday I make 40 Widgets! I get paid the same amount regardless of how productive I am. It's just all gravy for the employer though!

Employers can suck it.

not if you were paid per piece produced, and yes there are places that do that


Just ask the chinese toddlers who made your shoes!
 
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