FARK.com: (7326873) You man need to sit down for this. If you connect to a BitTorrent swarm via magnet link on The Pirate Bay, you can see other people's IP addresses

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		You man need to sit down for this. If you connect to a BitTorrent swarm via magnet link on The Pirate Bay, you can see other people's IP addresses (ibtimes.com)		52
		More: Obvious, TorrentFreak, The Pirate Bay, independent record label, Birmingham University, inherent risk, BitTorrent, IP addresses, Lifehacker

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2567 clicks; posted to Geek » on 14 Sep 2012 at 11:32 AM | Favorite | share:

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Koggie		2012-09-14 08:41:05 AM

No. YOU man!

Dead for Tax Reasons		2012-09-14 09:12:48 AM

SnarfVader		2012-09-14 10:06:05 AM

unlikely		2012-09-14 10:51:30 AM

I wonder what's going to happen the first time someone uses the "time shift" precedent for TV they've downloaded and actually has legal copies of everything else they've downloaded.

Dimensio		2012-09-14 11:39:39 AM

unlikely: I wonder what's going to happen the first time someone uses the "time shift" precedent for TV they've downloaded and actually has legal copies of everything else they've downloaded.

The sharing of the content to other individuals who may not possess a legal copy would negate any such defense; typically, legal action is pursued based upon the distribution of content rather than receipt or possession of it.

/Used USENET to download Skyward Sword a week before release.
//Bought it upon release anyway.

YixilTesiphon		2012-09-14 11:40:31 AM

bonzibuddy.jpg

mongbiohazard		2012-09-14 11:43:15 AM

Your IP, maybe. My IP addy will appear to be constantly rotating between random addresses in Germany, Switzerland, etc....

Sleazy_as_Pie		2012-09-14 11:45:37 AM

FTFA: "The risk is that an IP address is akin to a computer's online fingerprint"

No, it's not.

lewismarktwo		2012-09-14 12:01:21 PM

Good thing most end user ISPs haven't bothered to get around to IPv6...

TV's Vinnie		2012-09-14 12:07:06 PM

Get Peerblock.

BarkingUnicorn		2012-09-14 12:09:46 PM

TV's Vinnie: Get Peerblock.

And hope the RIAA police are on one of Peerblock's blacklists. Theater security, just like the TSA.

spawn73		2012-09-14 12:13:53 PM

mongbiohazard: Your IP, maybe. My IP addy will appear to be constantly rotating between random addresses in Germany, Switzerland, etc....

Your download speed must suck.

holdenoversoul		2012-09-14 12:19:32 PM

mcreadyblue		2012-09-14 12:29:17 PM

mongbiohazard		2012-09-14 12:35:54 PM

spawn73: mongbiohazard: Your IP, maybe. My IP addy will appear to be constantly rotating between random addresses in Germany, Switzerland, etc....

Your download speed must suck.

It isn't what it used to be when my IP adduced was exposed, but it's not all that bad. I mean, maybe I have to wait twice as long for a movie to download, but that's still pretty damn magical IMHO. If it takes me half an hour to DL a new movie instead of 15 minutes that's a completely acceptable price for the anonymity.

New,active torrents still DL pretty quickly.

fluffy2097		2012-09-14 12:53:35 PM

People still use the pirate bay?

entropy--		2012-09-14 12:54:06 PM

This is why paying $5 per month to swissvpn.net is worthwhile

CygnusDarius		2012-09-14 01:02:42 PM

So, grooveshark instead?.

indarwinsshadow		2012-09-14 01:07:57 PM

People still torrent? Do they still limewire and edonkey as well?

Detinwolf		2012-09-14 01:22:18 PM

indarwinsshadow: People still torrent? Do they still limewire and edonkey as well?

If no one torrented, you wouldn't have the RIAA furious over the pirate bay.

lewismarktwo		2012-09-14 01:32:20 PM

indarwinsshadow: People still torrent? Do they still limewire and edonkey as well?

What do you use to copyright infringe?

LesserEvil		2012-09-14 01:54:59 PM

I can't use magnetic links, as they don't seem to work with uTorrent running through BitGuard proxies.

I use this to convert them:

magnet2torrent

lecavalier		2012-09-14 02:01:53 PM

BarkingUnicorn: TV's Vinnie: Get Peerblock.

And hope the RIAA police are on one of Peerblock's blacklists. Theater security, just like the TSA.

Well, knowledge is power.

Let's say there are 100 RIAA/MPAA narcs running around (just to pick an easy number), if Peerblock gets 55 of them, that's less of a chance of getting caught. And since, unlike the TSA, Peerblock just sits in the background and doesn't annoy you (or take up much space/memory), it is a harmless little addition.

bk3k		2012-09-14 02:12:17 PM

Some people rely on VPN alone. I would not. Most bittorent clients imbed your real IP address into the actual data sent to the tracker. That mean that your connection may seem to be coming from the vpn's address, but still your real IP address is not unknown.

This is also true for those who foolishly download their torrents through TOR as well.

What you want is a seedbox. The seedbox you rent for a few bucks a month is what connects to the swarm, so your IP address will never be given out. You then download/upload directly(or if you wish - through a VPN) to the seedbox. An added bonus is that it will continue to seed for you without taking up your own bandwidth. Thus your sharing ratio goes way up and other users/private trackers will love you.

Although unlikely, the possibility exists that the seedbox company could give you up. This is also possible with VPN companies. A good seedbox company will not do this obviously - they tend to exist in jurisdictions that do not care about US copyright law. If you are really that worried about it, you could also just choose one that allows anonymous payment methods.

SteelCityKid		2012-09-14 02:17:08 PM

Who gives a fark. Buy a VPN connection and bask in your anonymity.

mcreadyblue		2012-09-14 02:26:23 PM

bk3k: Some people rely on VPN alone. I would not. Most bittorent clients imbed your real IP address into the actual data sent to the tracker. That mean that your connection may seem to be coming from the vpn's address, but still your real IP address is not unknown.

This is also true for those who foolishly download their torrents through TOR as well.

What you want is a seedbox. The seedbox you rent for a few bucks a month is what connects to the swarm, so your IP address will never be given out. You then download/upload directly(or if you wish - through a VPN) to the seedbox. An added bonus is that it will continue to seed for you without taking up your own bandwidth. Thus your sharing ratio goes way up and other users/private trackers will love you.

Although unlikely, the possibility exists that the seedbox company could give you up. This is also possible with VPN companies. A good seedbox company will not do this obviously - they tend to exist in jurisdictions that do not care about US copyright law. If you are really that worried about it, you could also just choose one that allows anonymous payment methods.

As long as you are behind a router with NAT, only the internal IP address is exposed. ( eg 192.168.1.0 )

IPv6 may change that.

MrCheeks		2012-09-14 02:28:49 PM

Bukharin		2012-09-14 02:52:21 PM

lecavalier: BarkingUnicorn: TV's Vinnie: Get Peerblock.

And hope the RIAA police are on one of Peerblock's blacklists. Theater security, just like the TSA.

Well, knowledge is power.

Let's say there are 100 RIAA/MPAA narcs running around (just to pick an easy number), if Peerblock gets 55 of them, that's less of a chance of getting caught. And since, unlike the TSA, Peerblock just sits in the background and doesn't annoy you (or take up much space/memory), it is a harmless little addition.

Peerblock has other features. I like how it blocks ads like a hosts file, except I dont have to update it manually.

ReverendJasen		2012-09-14 03:23:22 PM

mcreadyblue:
As long as you are behind a router with NAT, only the internal IP address is exposed. ( eg 192.168.1.0 )

IPv6 may change that.

er... no. Not unless you are tunneled in a VPN or seedbox is your public IP even possibly hidden.
In all the years I've used torrents I've never seen a non-routable IP in my connections list (either a 192.168.x.x or a 10.x.x.x). The swarm member *have* to have your public, routable IP (or an equivalent), or else they can't send a single packet to you.

TV's Vinnie		2012-09-14 03:31:31 PM

BarkingUnicorn: TV's Vinnie: Get Peerblock.

And hope the RIAA police are on one of Peerblock's blacklists. Theater security, just like the TSA.

Oh, the lists get updated very frequently. One other bit of advice is not to grab a movie so close to it's opening day (when the RIAA goons are on Red Alert). The longer you ait, the more seeds there would be.

Also, never, ever download anything from Pirate Bay who's uploader doesn't have the "skull" next to their name.

bk3k		2012-09-14 04:19:20 PM

ReverendJasen: mcreadyblue:
As long as you are behind a router with NAT, only the internal IP address is exposed. ( eg 192.168.1.0 )

IPv6 may change that.

er... no. Not unless you are tunneled in a VPN or seedbox is your public IP even possibly hidden.
In all the years I've used torrents I've never seen a non-routable IP in my connections list (either a 192.168.x.x or a 10.x.x.x). The swarm member *have* to have your public, routable IP (or an equivalent), or else they can't send a single packet to you.

Yes that is the whole thing about it. Bittorrent is designed to be as versatile as possible. Where as older file sharing technologies can have issues communicating between two people who are both behind a firewall, bittorent does not. That comes at a cost of privacy.

VPNs can clean your headers so those on the other end will not know your IP, but with torrent programs adding your routable IP address to the actual data - your VPN cannot scrub this. TOR cannot help you either. That is why I say get a seedbox instead or in addition too a VPN provider. VPNs are a step in the right direction, but its not enough where torrents are concerned.

bk3k		2012-09-14 04:27:26 PM

In addition consider the other ramifications. This has been demonstrated by proof of concept attacks already. If you are running bittorrent via a VPN or TOR at the same time as you are engaging in any other online communication you wish to keep private - bittorent can out you in those other communications as well.

When its found out that your IP was showing 221.19.35.17 courtesy of your VPN(namely that is an IP actually belonging to the VPN) where as your real IP is 39.65.112.188. It can then be determined that any activity belonging to 221.18.35.17 at the same time is actually 39.65.112.188. As long as your ISP tells them who had 39.65.112.188 at that time, they know who you are.

emotion_lotion		2012-09-14 04:55:35 PM

Cummon guys, these threads are for the monthy update on where everyone goes to get the pron and what they us to get it.

I need an update as I used to use empornium and utorrent but the site has gone and aparently utorrent is not secure.

Spasticus Autisticus		2012-09-14 05:17:08 PM

QUESTION: If somebody is downloading torrents at, say, the Charlotte Airport wireless connection, or from an internet cafe or other open network, how does RIAA, etc, track those evil-dooers?

profplump		2012-09-14 05:26:09 PM

bk3k: Most bittorent clients imbed your real IP address into the actual data sent to the tracker.

Which they determine how, exactly? If they ask the outside world for the source IP address they'll get the VPN one. If they look up the address locally it will be some RFC-1918 address for the vast majority of users. It would be really useless for a torrent client to include any address other than the routable one on which you're listening, so if your client isn't picking up that VPN-based address you should fix it just to make torrents work better, let alone the privacy issue.

happydude45		2012-09-14 05:52:47 PM

mongbiohazard: Your IP, maybe. My IP addy will appear to be constantly rotating between random addresses in Germany, Switzerland, etc....

This. Mine go from Belgium to Scotland

pxlboy		2012-09-14 05:54:42 PM

emotion_lotion: Cummon guys, these threads are for the monthy update on where everyone goes to get the pron and what they us to get it.

I need an update as I used to use empornium and utorrent but the site has gone and aparently utorrent is not secure.

How so? I'm genuinely curious as a utorrent user.

ZAZ		2012-09-14 05:54:47 PM

Spasticus Autisticus

The wireless access provider has a MAC address and device profile (e.g. browser ident). MPAA gets that info. So they know iPad 7 ID 11:22:33 stole some of their reboot-sequel-crap. Most likely they give up. Too hard for a non-government actor to turn that into personal identity.

Now imagine law enforcement wants to find you because you also downloaded the leaked Hillary Clinton "home movies." Then they run face recognition on the surveillance records. They subpoena Apple to find who bought the device and find the cell phone ID associated with the MAC address (may only work with CDMA, not SIM cards). They track that cell phone ID. They check out other hotspots to see if the same device used them and if it left any tracks (e.g. your room number if you need to enter it for hotel wifi access). They see what flights went through that airport. They check license plate scanner logs. They check bank and credit card records.

Maybe they get you. Maybe not. Much of the process can be computerized. The rest will take more human time than a filing fee and subpoena to one ISP. On the other hand, the government wants this capability anyway and selling it to copyright holders will appease lobbyists who are trying to get more criminal enforcement of copyright law.

mcreadyblue		2012-09-14 06:12:06 PM

Christian Bale		2012-09-14 10:35:44 PM

as someone completely unknowledgeable about torrenting, I have to ask: what is a magnet file?

or, to put it another way, farking magnets, how do they work?

LesserEvil		2012-09-14 11:41:28 PM

Christian Bale: as someone completely unknowledgeable about torrenting, I have to ask: what is a magnet file?

or, to put it another way, farking magnets, how do they work?

It's a more dynamic form of a torrent file. It's a way to identify the fileset itself (which reduces the chances of getting the wrong file or a fake file), rather than telling you where the file is.

For The Pirate Bay, it's a way to avoid "direct" linking to torrents and hopefully avoid legal trouble.

Pete_T_Mann		2012-09-15 01:58:46 AM

lecavalier: BarkingUnicorn: TV's Vinnie: Get Peerblock.

And hope the RIAA police are on one of Peerblock's blacklists. Theater security, just like the TSA.

Well, knowledge is power.

Let's say there are 100 RIAA/MPAA narcs running around (just to pick an easy number), if Peerblock gets 55 of them, that's less of a chance of getting caught. And since, unlike the TSA, Peerblock just sits in the background and doesn't annoy you (or take up much space/memory), it is a harmless little addition.

Peerblock does little to protect you, at least torrent-wise. As soon as that cooperation agreement thing went through where ISPs said they'd obey the MPAA and their buddies I got dinged twice for d/ls while running it.

fluffy2097		2012-09-15 05:29:27 AM

Spasticus Autisticus: QUESTION: If somebody is downloading torrents at, say, the Charlotte Airport wireless connection, or from an internet cafe or other open network, how does RIAA, etc, track those evil-dooers?

They cannot, and that is something they do not want you to know.

At the very best, all they can get is the IP address and MAC address of the router the infringing computer sits behind.

The **AA just sues whoevers name is on the bill.

/internal LAN addresses are stripped off at the router.
//MAC addresses are stripped too.

Jgok		2012-09-15 06:06:16 AM

LesserEvil: I can't use magnetic links, as they don't seem to work with uTorrent running through BitGuard proxies.

I use this to convert them:

magnet2torrent

Try snagging a list of public trackers and manually adding them to the magnet-linked file once it's in uTorrent. When TPB went to magnets their default trackers kept timing out (BitTorrent with BTGuard), but with a dozen or so other trackers added to the list you'll see plenty of seeds.

/or so I've heard

farkeruk		2012-09-15 07:04:04 AM

the best thing about Bittorrent is that it keeps the **AA away from Usenet.

ZAZ		2012-09-15 08:36:03 AM

fluffy2097

An airport wireless provider looks like an ISP to the lawyers. In some cases it is an ordinary ISP, e.g. ATT has the contract for a lot of business "free wifi" plans. The copyright enforcer can find out your MAC address by sending a subpoena to the network operator.

fluffy2097		2012-09-15 09:21:00 AM

ZAZ: fluffy2097

An airport wireless provider looks like an ISP to the lawyers. In some cases it is an ordinary ISP, e.g. ATT has the contract for a lot of business "free wifi" plans. The copyright enforcer can find out your MAC address by sending a subpoena to the network operator.

If they want to question my router, they are welcome to. I doubt it is going to say much as it's not alive.

lewismarktwo		2012-09-15 10:38:41 AM

farkeruk: the best thing about Bittorrent is that it keeps the **AA away from Usenet.

Shhhh.

soj4life		2012-09-15 01:40:54 PM

ZAZ: fluffy2097

An airport wireless provider looks like an ISP to the lawyers. In some cases it is an ordinary ISP, e.g. ATT has the contract for a lot of business "free wifi" plans. The copyright enforcer can find out your MAC address by sending a subpoena to the network operator.

And when you spoof your mac, they have even less. Or you could just use an usb wireless adapter only when you are on public networks.

ZAZ		2012-09-15 02:33:36 PM

soj4life

You can work to make yourself harder to track. They can work harder to track you. The cost-benefit currently favors targeting careless people over careful people.

When I worked on wireless networking I could have easily changed the access point software to tell what chip you were using, no matter what you set your MAC address to. This brand reacts in such a such a way to a disassociate notification with reason X, Broadcom chips have this hardware bug, etc.

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