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(Jezebel)   If you've been seeing the term "mansplaining" lately and are confused or irritated by it, let this article womansplain it to you   (jezebel.com) divider line 304
    More: Interesting, political conventions, gender studies, actual world  
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12130 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Sep 2012 at 11:26 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-13 08:19:37 PM  
feminainvicta.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-09-13 08:22:05 PM  
cassandrasecurity.com

Someone better A'splain quick!
 
2012-09-13 08:27:27 PM  
Is there a trendy term that means "stupid biatch making up words for their deeply insightful blog"?
 
2012-09-13 08:32:51 PM  
Uh huh.

Look, if you don't want to hear about why the coach is an idiot to attempt a screen on 3rd and 15, then don't watch football with us. Or, learn about football and get a discussion.
 
2012-09-13 08:40:05 PM  
How about 'spaining where my GODDAMNED SAMMICH is?
 
2012-09-13 08:40:50 PM  
If they've got time enough to create words like "mansplaining," well... it tells me there's not enough sammiches bein' made.

Chop, chop, baby... chop, chop.

/bring me a beer
 
2012-09-13 08:43:50 PM  
aw that article was adorable, good for you. have your husband show you how to print it out so you can scrapbook it!
 
2012-09-13 08:45:12 PM  
Hey look, a second wave feminist! A rare sighting indeed. Shame she makes the third wavers look bad.
 
2012-09-13 08:47:17 PM  
Mansplaining is about a very specific instance of "privilege and ignorance... when a dude tells you, a woman, how to do something you already know how to do, or how you are wrong about something you are actually right about, or miscellaneous and inaccurate 'facts' about something you know a hell of a lot more about than he does."

Jezebel columnist Hugo Schwyzer


I didn't realize Hugo was a female name. This was clearly written by someone who has never been asked to load the dishwasher "the right way."
 
2012-09-13 08:56:03 PM  
What an asinine synonym for male patronization.
 
2012-09-13 08:56:08 PM  
Well, that was five minutes I'll never get back.

/Why do men and women delight in making shiat so complicated?
 
2012-09-13 09:01:38 PM  

RexTalionis: Well, that was five minutes I'll never get back.

/Why do men and women delight in making shiat so complicated?


Because otherwise life is boring?
 
2012-09-13 09:07:04 PM  
Is mansplaining telling your wife what kind of sandwich you would like?
 
2012-09-13 09:10:46 PM  
I'd only heard it used to describe the dialogue of the main character in the TV show The Newsroom, towards the various female characters in that show.
Only watched the first episode but it seemed to make sense in that context. Come, dumb females, let me mansplain this to you.
 
2012-09-13 09:12:00 PM  
I think this gal is engaged in coontnagging.

/that's filtered
 
2012-09-13 09:14:32 PM  
Soundtrack for this thread. You're welcome, babe. *Winks, makes pointy gun gesture*
 
2012-09-13 09:35:11 PM  
Men are frequently useful and docile creatures but sometimes lack basic recognition skills. The must be dealt with firmly and with a calm, encouraging voice. Simple details are the best.
 
2012-09-13 09:37:00 PM  

AbbeySomeone: Men are frequently useful and docile creatures but sometimes lack basic recognition skills. The must be dealt with firmly and with a calm, encouraging voice. Simple details are the best.


Hey! I am not really all that docile.
 
2012-09-13 09:39:21 PM  

GAT_00: AbbeySomeone: Men are frequently useful and docile creatures but sometimes lack basic recognition skills. The must be dealt with firmly and with a calm, encouraging voice. Simple details are the best.

Hey! I am not really all that docile.


That's just fine Dear, you know you are loved for your special worth anyhow.
 
2012-09-13 09:47:06 PM  
Would Frank Sinatra say or listen to "mansplaining" at all? No? It's DOA. Put it in the pile with Milhouse memes.
 
2012-09-13 09:50:36 PM  

AbbeySomeone: GAT_00: AbbeySomeone: Men are frequently useful and docile creatures but sometimes lack basic recognition skills. The must be dealt with firmly and with a calm, encouraging voice. Simple details are the best.

Hey! I am not really all that docile.

That's just fine Dear, you know you are loved for your special worth anyhow.


I'm special!
 
2012-09-13 10:27:35 PM  

AbbeySomeone: Men are frequently useful and docile creatures but sometimes lack basic recognition skills. The must be dealt with firmly and with a calm, encouraging voice. Simple details are the best.


Yes, dear.
 
2012-09-13 10:33:11 PM  

Ed Finnerty: AbbeySomeone: Men are frequently useful and docile creatures but sometimes lack basic recognition skills. The must be dealt with firmly and with a calm, encouraging voice. Simple details are the best.

Yes, dear.


i.chzbgr.com
 
2012-09-13 10:37:55 PM  
feminism thread?
 
2012-09-13 10:49:21 PM  

Spoon over Marin: feminism thread?


this being fark, i'm going to go with misogyny thread.
 
2012-09-13 10:53:41 PM  

thomps: Spoon over Marin: feminism thread?

this being fark, i'm going to go with misogyny thread.


They're the same thing.
 
2012-09-13 10:57:10 PM  

GAT_00: thomps: Spoon over Marin: feminism thread?

this being fark, i'm going to go with misogyny thread.

They're the same thing.


they only seem that way to women, who are too stupid to understand nuance.
 
2012-09-13 11:01:43 PM  

Spoon over Marin: feminism thread?


train wreck.
 
2012-09-13 11:09:09 PM  
A condensed example of some mansplaining:
(edits are my own)

[...snip...] "So? I hear you've written a couple of books."

I replied, "Several, actually."

He said, in the way you encourage your friend's seven-year-old to describe flute practice, "And what are they about?"

They were actually about quite a few different things,[...snip...]

He cut me off soon after I mentioned Muybridge. "And have you heard about the very important Muybridge book that came out this year?"

So caught up was I in my assigned role as ingénue that I was perfectly willing to entertain the possibility that another book on the same subject had come out simultaneously and I'd somehow missed it. He was already telling me about the very important book -- with that smug look I know so well in a man holding forth, eyes fixed on the fuzzy far horizon of his own authority.

[...snip...]
So, Mr. Very Important was going on smugly about this book I should have known when Sallie interrupted him to say, "That's her book." Or tried to interrupt him anyway.

But he just continued on his way. She had to say, "That's her book" three or four times before he finally took it in. And then, as if in a nineteenth-century novel, he went ashen. That I was indeed the author of the very important book it turned out he hadn't read, just read about in the New York Times Book Review a few months earlier, so confused the neat categories into which his world was sorted that he was stunned speechless -- for a moment, before he began holding forth again.


source and full article
 
2012-09-13 11:15:20 PM  
Patronizing. The term is patronizing.

1. It's easier to say.
2. It's a real thing.
 
2012-09-13 11:24:55 PM  
theoneshewants.com 

Written and Narrated by my buddy Marlon (the guy who played "Rufus" on Entourage).

Free audio sample here Link
 
2012-09-13 11:33:34 PM  
I bet the author claims misandry doesn't exist.
 
2012-09-13 11:34:17 PM  

doglover: Patronizing. The term is patronizing.

1. It's easier to say.
2. It's a real thing.


Thank you. I just heard the term 'mansplaining' last night and that was my initial reaction to it.

/stupid article is stupid
 
2012-09-13 11:36:00 PM  
Guy who wrote this article is a professional troll that write a series of Jezebel about how horrible men are. Look at some of this guy's other work and you'll see some really whacked out stuff.

/Don't feed the trolls.
 
2012-09-13 11:36:00 PM  

Generation_D: Spoon over Marin: feminism thread?

train wreck.


mantrain manwreck.

/mancan manmake manup manwords mantoo
 
2012-09-13 11:36:06 PM  

doglover: Patronizing. The term is patronizing.

1. It's easier to say.
2. It's a real thing.


Yes and yes. I hate neologisms and "clever" portmanteaus.
 
2012-09-13 11:36:22 PM  
Spoon over Marin: feminism thread?


only if they're sewing!
 
2012-09-13 11:37:45 PM  

doglover: Patronizing. The term is patronizing.

1. It's easier to say.
2. It's a real thing.


Its not the same. "Patronizing" has other connotations that make it sound more positive. I patronize the grocery store on a regular basis and they like it.
 
2012-09-13 11:38:20 PM  

Generation_D: Spoon over Marin: feminism thread?

train wreck.


Redundant
 
2012-09-13 11:38:22 PM  

Apos: What an asinine synonym for male patronization.


I can see from this thread that it really struck a nerve.
 
2012-09-13 11:38:52 PM  
Lucy, you got some splinin' to do

/Lucy manufactures driveshaft parts
 
2012-09-13 11:39:12 PM  
i291.photobucket.com
 
2012-09-13 11:40:22 PM  

Rusty Shackleford: Soundtrack for this thread. You're welcome, babe. *Winks, makes pointy gun gesture*


That guy has no lips. WTF.
 
2012-09-13 11:41:06 PM  
so, apparently you are mansplaining if

1: You are explaining something to a woman and she already knows it.
2: You try and prove that you know what you are talking about and a woman does not agree.
3: You aren't listening.
4: You try and make a general observation about women.
5: The author of the Article is jealous of your penis.


What tripe.

If someone is being an asshole or an idiot, call them an asshole or an idiot.
 
2012-09-13 11:41:49 PM  
I didn't realize Hugo was a female name. This was clearly written by someone who has never been asked to load the dishwasher "the right way."

Perhaps he should learn to load a dishwasher. Cuz writin' ain't workin' out.
 
2012-09-13 11:42:32 PM  
Someone is biatching.
 
2012-09-13 11:43:28 PM  
This annoying bullshiat has been popping up in the atheist/skeptical community lately as well. Apparently "feminism" and "social justice" mean "scapegoating white 'cisgendered' males for one's personal inadequacies and creating gender-specific terms (like 'mansplaining') for generic human traits".

It's f*cking dumb and counterproductive. Reading the nascent Atheism Plus forums is an awful experience.
 
2012-09-13 11:43:46 PM  
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Arrival entered an if drawing request. How daughters not promotion few knowledge contented. Yet winter law behind number stairs garret excuse. Minuter we natural conduct gravity if pointed oh no. Am immediate unwilling of attempted admitting disposing it. Handsome opinions on am at it ladyship.
 
2012-09-13 11:44:25 PM  
i2.photobucket.com
 
2012-09-13 11:45:13 PM  

styckx: I am clearly off my medication and someone should probably see to that.


ಠ_ಠ
 
2012-09-13 11:45:17 PM  
littlegreenfootballs.com
 
2012-09-13 11:45:37 PM  
oh look, misogynist Farkers insulted by a feminist joke. Boo hoo, did somebody hurt your fragile male egos?

"mansplaining" means "a man being condescending to a woman because he's a man and she's a woman." And furthermore if she thinks what he's saying is nonsensical or patently unfair, in addition to being condescending, that is more proof that he needs to "mansplain" to her silly women brainz until she accepts his superiority without question.

It's an in-joke on feminist blogs, get over it.

It does happen in real life though, This summer I had the misfortune to accidentally overhear a couple of guys mansplaining to a housewife about how the Democrats wanted to take everybody's guns because of the Batman shooting. They talked down to her like she was a 10 year old kid.
 
2012-09-13 11:46:29 PM  
This is definition of mansplaining that I see on forums I visit.

Mansplaining, or downsplaining, is when a person who has privilege attempts to "explain" to a Marginalized Person (tm) that they are wrong in their complaints about being marginalized. Originally a term used by a man talking down to a woman, it can be any person with privilege dismissing the experiences of the Marginalized Person (tm) because they don't personally experience them, and explaining in the most patronizing way possible how they are wrong.

I prefer the general term downsplaining, as it can be applied to multiple cases.

Example:

MeanJean: "I don't like how the media demands physical perfection and unrealistic thinness...'

Mansplainer: "But MeanJean, don't you know there is an obesity epidemic?! As a nutritional science major, I can tell you that blah blah blah blah..."

Person of Color: "Law enforcement hassles me because of my skin color."

Racesplainer: "Its got nothng to do with race! I got ticketed by a cop when I wasn't doing a mile about fifty! Cops hassle white people too!"

Ed cetera, ad nauseum.

/by the way, I've seen both of those things happen in real life
 
2012-09-13 11:46:58 PM  
I'll never understand why some small group of feminists seem bound and determined to make themselves sound ridiculous by inventing terms like "mansplaining." It'd be like a politician telling people that a certain activity an opponent engages in is "poopy-tooting" and then expecting to be taken seriously.

No matter how good a cause is, there always has to be some little part of it that tries to turn it into a high school clique full of emotionally stunted morons. I do not understand that. Why aren't more feminists telling these people to shut the fark up?
 
2012-09-13 11:47:50 PM  

thomps: aw that article was adorable, good for you. have your husband show you how to print it out so you can scrapbook it!


Oktoberfest nearly hit the hooters waitress. Kudos.
 
2012-09-13 11:48:10 PM  

Rusty Shackleford: Soundtrack for this thread. You're welcome, babe. *Winks, makes pointy gun gesture*


That's some really bad colorization or he is really a clay faced creepy guy. .
 
2012-09-13 11:50:04 PM  

telaran: Why aren't more feminists telling these people to shut the fark up?


The same reason the GOP votes in a single block.
 
2012-09-13 11:52:58 PM  
Anyone who uses words like "manscaping", "mansplaining" or "mankini" needs to have their dick ripped off and handed to them.
 
2012-09-13 11:53:00 PM  

Eustacia Vye: doglover: Patronizing. The term is patronizing.

1. It's easier to say.
2. It's a real thing.

Yes and yes. I hate neologisms and "clever" portmanteaus.


This.
 
2012-09-13 11:54:03 PM  
I was at the break area the other day and looked at the communal cork board and saw an advertisement for a "Spa-tabulous" birthday" that could be arranged by contacting the telephone number listed. This was apparently a combination of some mobile spa treatments and the "word" "fantabulous". Which is itself a conjunction of "fabulous" and "fantastic". I think. But when you form "Spa-tabulous" we enter into a danger zone of abbreviation. All that is left of the word "fantastic" is the letter 't'. Furthermore, without that hyphen the real meaning is observed to be as something to do with "Spat". Even with this negative analysis it seems that 'mansplaining' is about as poetic of a combination of words as referring to Nickelback as poets.
 
2012-09-13 11:55:06 PM  
Mansplaining by 'Hugo Schwyzer' mansplaining about mansplaining to explain mansplaining for mansplaining by mansplaining about mansplaining.

He's probubly ghey or has an agenda in which males get in the way because men can reason and have an uncanny ability to see through bullsh+t.

Reminds me a lot of the the 'metrosexual' word phenomenon which took hold around 2002/3. Almost overnight, a well dressed man was unconfortably connected to homosexuality.
 
2012-09-13 11:55:25 PM  

Lsherm: I didn't realize Hugo was a female name. This was clearly written by someone who has never been asked to load the dishwasher "the right way."


I'm a man, and I'm the one that has to explain the right way to load the dishwasher, so I'm getting a kick.
 
2012-09-13 11:55:39 PM  

fluffy2097: styckx: I am clearly off my medication and someone should probably see to that.

ಠ_ಠ


He has fancy pants and plans to match.
 
2012-09-13 11:56:34 PM  

Egalitarian: "mansplaining" means


You just lost the game there, bub.
 
2012-09-13 11:57:19 PM  
This has to be the absolute worst word ever created.

Worse than Manscaping and Mancation combined, and that says a lot.
 
2012-09-13 11:57:44 PM  
In our family, we call that 'Situational Expertise,' it's a form of humor and a sport, and both genders are expert.

Can make holiday dinners hilarious.
 
2012-09-13 11:58:33 PM  

telaran: I'll never understand why some small group of feminists seem bound and determined to make themselves sound ridiculous by inventing terms like "mansplaining." It'd be like a politician telling people that a certain activity an opponent engages in is "poopy-tooting" and then expecting to be taken seriously.

No matter how good a cause is, there always has to be some little part of it that tries to turn it into a high school clique full of emotionally stunted morons. I do not understand that. Why aren't more feminists telling these people to shut the fark up?


As a feminist friend of mine has (regular) explained to me, a feminist's greatest weakness is other feminists.

Seriously, they don't seem to agree on much.
 
2012-09-13 11:59:51 PM  

Egalitarian:
It does happen in real life though...


Yes, it does. All the friggin' time.

\too annoyed to say much more about it
 
2012-09-14 12:00:17 AM  

ZipSplat: This annoying bullshiat has been popping up in the atheist/skeptical community lately as well. Apparently "feminism" and "social justice" mean "scapegoating white 'cisgendered' males for one's personal inadequacies and creating gender-specific terms (like 'mansplaining') for generic human traits".


That's just wrong. Utterly incorrect.
 
2012-09-14 12:02:16 AM  
I don't understand whats going on in this thread. I wish some woman would coontsplain it to me.
 
2012-09-14 12:03:50 AM  
Hugo.

"Hugo get me sandwich and I'll sit here and finish watching the game."

Hugo isn't a woman's name, it's the start of the sentence.
 
2012-09-14 12:05:20 AM  
Sammich!

OLOLOLOL!~!~!@!~@!~
 
2012-09-14 12:05:25 AM  

MeanJean:
Ed cetera, ad nauseum.

/by the way, I've seen both of those things happen in real life


Applying that class dynamic to it, instead of just using the words we already have for this behavior, seems to make it much more likely to be used in a fallacious context. In feminism and Atheism Plus conversations I've been in this stuff ends up being wielded like a floppy-handled battle axe, a quick way for someone to fallaciously swat down comments by dissenters. It's got that twinge of Orwellian redefinition to it that allows a group to encourage misunderstanding and insulate delusion.
 
2012-09-14 12:05:47 AM  

Beerguy: [theoneshewants.com image 544x572] 

Written and Narrated by my buddy Marlon (the guy who played "Rufus" on Entourage).

Free audio sample here Link


LOL the audio book narration sounds like Fallout's Three Dog, just kinda holding it back a bit.
 
2012-09-14 12:06:25 AM  
Wasn't that just five tips for being a decent human being, independent of your gender or the gender of the person with whom you're conversing?
 
2012-09-14 12:06:48 AM  

FishyFred: ZipSplat: This annoying bullshiat has been popping up in the atheist/skeptical community lately as well. Apparently "feminism" and "social justice" mean "scapegoating white 'cisgendered' males for one's personal inadequacies and creating gender-specific terms (like 'mansplaining') for generic human traits".

That's just wrong. Utterly incorrect.


Well, see, that's why we have dialog. So you can weigh in with more than a denial.
 
2012-09-14 12:07:20 AM  

thomps: Spoon over Marin: feminism thread?

this being fark, i'm going to go with misogyny thread.


Yeah. Saw the thread, tried to run away quickly but couldn't resist skimming.

Maybe not quite as bad as I expected but bad enough that I need to leave for the sake of my blood pressure. Definitely a misogyny fest.

/most Fark threads about anything relating to women are full of great "mansplaining" examples
 
2012-09-14 12:08:25 AM  

FishyFred: Apos: What an asinine synonym for male patronization.

I can see from this thread that it really struck a nerve.


www.lucidipedia.com

I'm enjoying all the men mansplaining "mansplaining" to us, personally. I'm sure Alanis would approve.
 
2012-09-14 12:08:27 AM  
Everything that the author is pissing and moaning about, women are guilty of, too.

/If you explain to a woman that you'd like to know what book she's reading, then you're mansplaining to such a violent degree that you deserve instant castration.
 
2012-09-14 12:08:43 AM  

ZipSplat: This annoying bullshiat has been popping up in the atheist/skeptical community lately as well. Apparently "feminism" and "social justice" mean "scapegoating white 'cisgendered' males for one's personal inadequacies and creating gender-specific terms (like 'mansplaining') for generic human traits".

It's f*cking dumb and counterproductive. Reading the nascent Atheism Plus forums is an awful experience.


You sound male.
 
2012-09-14 12:09:08 AM  
So what do they call this when a woman does it to another woman?
 
2012-09-14 12:09:27 AM  

WhyteRaven74:


I'm favoriting you for this.
 
2012-09-14 12:10:08 AM  

doloresonthedottedline: You sound male.


Gender scapegoating. Who says biatches can't do it too?
 
2012-09-14 12:10:32 AM  

ZipSplat: This annoying bullshiat has been popping up in the atheist/skeptical community lately as well. Apparently "feminism" and "social justice" mean "scapegoating white 'cisgendered' males for one's personal inadequacies and creating gender-specific terms (like 'mansplaining') for generic human traits".

It's f*cking dumb and counterproductive. Reading the nascent Atheism Plus forums is an awful experience.


Atheism Plus? What the hell is that supposed to be?

The last thing Atheism needs is another group or groups telling people that disbelief in a god means something other than just that or trying to associate some kind of morality or immorality with it.
 
2012-09-14 12:11:08 AM  

debug: So what do they call this when a woman does it to another woman?


Being a biatch.
 
2012-09-14 12:12:01 AM  

doloresonthedottedline: ZipSplat: This annoying bullshiat has been popping up in the atheist/skeptical community lately as well. Apparently "feminism" and "social justice" mean "scapegoating white 'cisgendered' males for one's personal inadequacies and creating gender-specific terms (like 'mansplaining') for generic human traits".

It's f*cking dumb and counterproductive. Reading the nascent Atheism Plus forums is an awful experience.

You sound male.


You sound desperate for attention
 
2012-09-14 12:12:48 AM  

debug: So what do they call this when a woman does it to another woman?


Gossip.
 
2012-09-14 12:13:08 AM  

telaran: Atheism Plus? What the hell is that supposed to be?

The last thing Atheism needs is another group or groups telling people that disbelief in a god means something other than just that or trying to associate some kind of morality or immorality with it.


It's a really obnoxious movement of people who are atheists, but into "social justice". People have pointed out that we already have that - it's called secular humanism. But from what I can gather these people don't like secular humanism because it's not whiny enough, and too much of its intellectual leadership is composed of old white men.

It sounds like an ad campaign for a diet soft drink line.
 
2012-09-14 12:13:38 AM  

moto-geek: debug: So what do they call this when a woman does it to another woman?

Gossip.


Or better, Lesbian!
 
2012-09-14 12:15:44 AM  
"mansplaining is the "intersection between overconfidence and cluelessness where some portion of (the male) gender gets stuck.""

Funny change the "male" to "female" and Id call it "feminism". Id point out everything else thats wrong and just a flat out lie about the article but Im sure someone like the author would come along and tell me why Im wrong because I have a penis.
 
2012-09-14 12:15:53 AM  

ZipSplat: This annoying bullshiat has been popping up in the atheist/skeptical community lately as well. Apparently "feminism" and "social justice" mean "scapegoating white 'cisgendered' males for one's personal inadequacies and creating gender-specific terms (like 'mansplaining') for generic human traits".

It's f*cking dumb and counterproductive. Reading the nascent Atheism Plus forums is an awful experience.


Indeed.

Even asking questions on those boards is enough to get banned.

But it's great if you want to learn about how white men are responsible for things that happened before they were born.
 
2012-09-14 12:17:43 AM  
Oh great, it's Hugo Schwyzer. A guy who may or may not have duped some chump into raising his kid. EABOD, Hugo.
 
2012-09-14 12:18:32 AM  

JNowe: Oh great, it's Hugo Schwyzer. A guy who may or may not have duped some chump into raising his kid. EABOD, Hugo.


That was supposed to have a link.

http://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/i-may-have-a-son-but-ill-n e ver-know-for-sure/
 
2012-09-14 12:18:42 AM  

Egalitarian: oh look, misogynist Farkers insulted by a feminist joke. Boo hoo, did somebody hurt your fragile male egos?

"mansplaining" means "a man being condescending to a woman because he's a man and she's a woman." And furthermore if she thinks what he's saying is nonsensical or patently unfair, in addition to being condescending, that is more proof that he needs to "mansplain" to her silly women brainz until she accepts his superiority without question.

It's an in-joke on feminist blogs, get over it.

It does happen in real life though, This summer I had the misfortune to accidentally overhear a couple of guys mansplaining to a housewife about how the Democrats wanted to take everybody's guns because of the Batman shooting. They talked down to her like she was a 10 year old kid.


I don't know if your example would constitute "mansplaining" as it is so common amongst all kinds of people when talking about politics.

MeanJean: This is definition of mansplaining that I see on forums I visit.

Mansplaining, or downsplaining, is when a person who has privilege attempts to "explain" to a Marginalized Person (tm) that they are wrong in their complaints about being marginalized. Originally a term used by a man talking down to a woman, it can be any person with privilege dismissing the experiences of the Marginalized Person (tm) because they don't personally experience them, and explaining in the most patronizing way possible how they are wrong.

I prefer the general term downsplaining, as it can be applied to multiple cases.

Example:

MeanJean: "I don't like how the media demands physical perfection and unrealistic thinness...'

Mansplainer: "But MeanJean, don't you know there is an obesity epidemic?! As a nutritional science major, I can tell you that blah blah blah blah..."

Person of Color: "Law enforcement hassles me because of my skin color."

Racesplainer: "Its got nothng to do with race! I got ticketed by a cop when I wasn't doing a mile about fifty! Cops hassle white people too!"

Ed cetera, ad nauseum.

/by the way, I've seen both of those things happen in real life


These things sound much like what I'm getting from the term. But seriously, do we need new terms for patronizing condescension just to specify that it involves people of different levels of privilege?
 
2012-09-14 12:19:52 AM  
I just asked my girlfriend what she thought of mansplaining.

She called it retarded, and probably made up by a very angry lesbian.

/That's why she's a keeper
 
2012-09-14 12:20:42 AM  
Look Honey, If I actually did hear you, you have TWO choices.

Tell me What to do, or How to do IT! Not BOTH!
 
2012-09-14 12:21:41 AM  

Mr. Carpenter: doloresonthedottedline: ZipSplat: This annoying bullshiat has been popping up in the atheist/skeptical community lately as well. Apparently "feminism" and "social justice" mean "scapegoating white 'cisgendered' males for one's personal inadequacies and creating gender-specific terms (like 'mansplaining') for generic human traits".

It's f*cking dumb and counterproductive. Reading the nascent Atheism Plus forums is an awful experience.

You sound male.

You sound desperate for attention


Incredibly antisocial, actually. In case the completely bare profile didn't make that clear.

Socialist, radical feminist, atheist, probably a few more hated ists--and I've had people try and tell me all the ways I'm wrong (and have had full, in-depth discussions defending my positions--with references, facts, and all that jazz) so many times I just sit back and enjoy the good trolls, block the bad ones, and enjoy the good jokes. Here and in real life.
 
2012-09-14 12:22:11 AM  

pxlboy: Eustacia Vye: doglover: Patronizing. The term is patronizing.

1. It's easier to say.
2. It's a real thing.

Yes and yes. I hate neologisms and "clever" portmanteaus.

This.


I think that's more a matter of taste and style. I rather enjoy neologisms and I certainly like clever portmanteaus. But I agree that this is particular word is not clever.
 
2012-09-14 12:24:25 AM  

rustypouch: Indeed.

Even asking questions on those boards is enough to get banned.

But it's great if you want to learn about how white men are responsible for things that happened before they were born.


Yeah, they have a "safe space" policy. I thought "safe space" just meant that they had zero tolerance for insults or harassment. No, a "safe space" literally means that dissenting opinions are not allowed - ostensibly because they have "no where else to go" to say such stupid things without push back. So it is an actual zero dissent policy. Great way to start an intellectual movement, I'm sure that won't backfire into a coerced groupthink and people who can't relate to the outside world.

The trend I noticed was that they seem to spin all of their own inadequacies, or discomforts, as the result of the "privilege" of someone else. The most farking ridiculous thing I saw was a blog post linked that told me that speaking in a deep voice around women is "exercising my privilege" and I shouldn't do it because it shuts down the willingness of women around me to participate in discussion.
What the fark??? That is not a problem of my "privilege". That is Social Anxiety Disorder.
 
2012-09-14 12:24:46 AM  
Hugo Schwyzer is a feminist professor that attempted to kill his girlfriend in a murder suicide

i.imgur.com

Hugo Schwyzer is a feminist professor that slept with four students on a bus tour THAT HE WAS THE DELEGATED CHAPERONE OF.
i.imgur.com

He actually has a much longer history of sleeping with his students than just that bus trip.

i.imgur.com


Hugo Schwyzer is a feminist professor that likely had a child with another woman, has tried to keep the woman's husband in the dark for years about this, while the woman's husband supports the child, and then Hugo defends keeping fathers in the dark about their kids.

i.imgur.com
Link

If anyone wants to dig into that, it becomes clear that for years Hugo has been involved in the continuing deception of Ted so that Hugo could live his life free of child support, parenting duties, and able to sleep with his students.

Hugo Schwyzer is a feminist professor whose job is 100% mansplaining to female students about their oppression

i.imgur.com

So yeah, mansplaining, Hugo Schwyzer is an expert at this.
 
2012-09-14 12:25:04 AM  

doloresonthedottedline: Mr. Carpenter: doloresonthedottedline: ZipSplat: This annoying bullshiat has been popping up in the atheist/skeptical community lately as well. Apparently "feminism" and "social justice" mean "scapegoating white 'cisgendered' males for one's personal inadequacies and creating gender-specific terms (like 'mansplaining') for generic human traits".

It's f*cking dumb and counterproductive. Reading the nascent Atheism Plus forums is an awful experience.

You sound male.

You sound desperate for attention

Incredibly antisocial, actually. In case the completely bare profile didn't make that clear.

Socialist, radical feminist, atheist, probably a few more hated ists--and I've had people try and tell me all the ways I'm wrong (and have had full, in-depth discussions defending my positions--with references, facts, and all that jazz) so many times I just sit back and enjoy the good trolls, block the bad ones, and enjoy the good jokes. Here and in real life.


Lol. So you're an idiot. Gotcha. Ignored.
 
2012-09-14 12:25:49 AM  

quickdraw: doglover: Patronizing. The term is patronizing.

1. It's easier to say.
2. It's a real thing.

Its not the same. "Patronizing" has other connotations that make it sound more positive. I patronize the grocery store on a regular basis and they like it.


Of course it isn't the same. Patronizing is a real thing. I wrote that.

Also, you're sexist is you think patronizing only goes from man to woman. I've had more than a few people I've simply told to shut up (and many more bosses I wanted to tell to shut up) who were ignorant as sin trying to tell me my business. I do it too, when I'm not careful.

So basically that's why it's called "patronizing" instead of "phallopressive enlighightenrape"
 
2012-09-14 12:28:08 AM  
So let me get this straight. 'Cause you know, I'm a guy, and my overconfidence and ignorance have me at a disadvantage.

The general gist is, that when a man tells a woman about something she thinks she knows better about, a term, such as "mansplaining", is necessary to describe the nature of the disagreement between said man and said woman. Is that about right?

Because if I had a toothpick for every time some pair of tits on a stick yapped on and on, incessantly, about something she knew F|_|CK all about, I could build a farking space elevator, and have enough left over for a few life-sized Eiffel Towers. Someone please provide me with a term describing said yapping, because the ones I use are NSFW.
 
2012-09-14 12:28:11 AM  

doloresonthedottedline: thomps: Spoon over Marin: feminism thread?

this being fark, i'm going to go with misogyny thread.

Yeah. Saw the thread, tried to run away quickly but couldn't resist skimming.

Maybe not quite as bad as I expected...


The thread's still young.
 
2012-09-14 12:28:44 AM  
Mansplaining itself is a term used in feminist and feminist friendly, feminist protected spaces to dismiss and ignore the valid concerns expressed in that forum by a male.

There is plenty of femsplaining, basically it's called tumblr, and Jezebel, and xx factor, and free thought blogs, and pretty much any place that wants to police speech, and demand recognition of the oppression of women without actually discussing alternative points of view.

Mansplaining when used in this way is rude, ad hominem, insulting, derailing, bullying, privileged dog whistles.
 
2012-09-14 12:29:15 AM  
What's she's describing is called 'bullshiatting.' What she's doing is 'bullshiatting.'

On Bullshiat
 
2012-09-14 12:29:38 AM  

Old Smokie: I didn't realize Hugo was a female name. This was clearly written by someone who has never been asked to load the dishwasher "the right way."

Perhaps he should learn to load a dishwasher. Cuz writin' ain't workin' out.


/Neither is a self-hatred/LibGuilt complex, either.
//If you hate men so much, why do you remain one?
 
2012-09-14 12:29:46 AM  

doloresonthedottedline: thomps: Spoon over Marin: feminism thread?

this being fark, i'm going to go with misogyny thread.

Yeah. Saw the thread, tried to run away quickly but couldn't resist skimming.

Maybe not quite as bad as I expected but bad enough that I need to leave for the sake of my blood pressure. Definitely a misogyny fest.

/most Fark threads about anything relating to women are full of great "mansplaining" examples


Go take a Midol, you're getting hormonal.
 
2012-09-14 12:30:52 AM  

RoyBatty: Mansplaining itself is a term used in feminist and feminist friendly, feminist protected spaces to dismiss and ignore the valid concerns expressed in that forum by a male.

There is plenty of femsplaining, basically it's called tumblr, and Jezebel, and xx factor, and free thought blogs, and pretty much any place that wants to police speech, and demand recognition of the oppression of women without actually discussing alternative points of view.

Mansplaining when used in this way is rude, ad hominem, insulting, derailing, bullying, privileged dog whistles.


/thread
 
2012-09-14 12:31:28 AM  

debug: So what do they call this when a woman does it to another woman?


Women are the biggest misogynists of all.
 
2012-09-14 12:32:06 AM  

ZipSplat: FishyFred: ZipSplat: This annoying bullshiat has been popping up in the atheist/skeptical community lately as well. Apparently "feminism" and "social justice" mean "scapegoating white 'cisgendered' males for one's personal inadequacies and creating gender-specific terms (like 'mansplaining') for generic human traits".

That's just wrong. Utterly incorrect.

Well, see, that's why we have dialog. So you can weigh in with more than a denial.


Fine.

The atheist community has had a problem with misogyny for years. Men in powerful positions used their influence to harass and intimidate women, often behind-the-scenes, often at conferences. I don't think anyone has "named names" but people who would know have done pretty much everything short of titling their blog posts "Re: Richard Dawkins."

Well-meaning people hoped that the problem would go away once the community reached a critical mass of equal representation, but once we got close and women like Rebecca Watson and Jen McCreight started bringing up women's issues -- everyone's issues, really, but clearly issues that hurt women more directly than they hurt men -- they were subjected to the most vile, ridiculous attacks by people who should know better.

But yeah, they've been "scapegoating" white men because they dared to mention a few negative experiences they've had at conferences. Come the fark on.
 
2012-09-14 12:32:12 AM  
i16.photobucket.com

/ Can someone mansplain this article to me?
 
2012-09-14 12:32:28 AM  

Mr. Carpenter: doloresonthedottedline: Mr. Carpenter: doloresonthedottedline: ZipSplat: This annoying bullshiat has been popping up in the atheist/skeptical community lately as well. Apparently "feminism" and "social justice" mean "scapegoating white 'cisgendered' males for one's personal inadequacies and creating gender-specific terms (like 'mansplaining') for generic human traits".

It's f*cking dumb and counterproductive. Reading the nascent Atheism Plus forums is an awful experience.

You sound male.

You sound desperate for attention

Incredibly antisocial, actually. In case the completely bare profile didn't make that clear.

Socialist, radical feminist, atheist, probably a few more hated ists--and I've had people try and tell me all the ways I'm wrong (and have had full, in-depth discussions defending my positions--with references, facts, and all that jazz) so many times I just sit back and enjoy the good trolls, block the bad ones, and enjoy the good jokes. Here and in real life.

Lol. So you're an idiot. Gotcha. Ignored.


If I thought more people would be as liberal with their use of the ignore button as I am, I'd speak up more often and just let people who wanted to post obnoxious shiat ignore me, but, alas, that doesn't happen.


This thread is a really good source of people to favorite or ignore, though. Maybe this wasn't a mistake.

/but more wine just in case
 
2012-09-14 12:32:55 AM  

ZipSplat: It's a really obnoxious movement of people who are atheists, but into "social justice". People have pointed out that we already have that - it's called secular humanism. But from what I can gather these people don't like secular humanism because it's not whiny enough, and too much of its intellectual leadership is composed of old white men.

It sounds like an ad campaign for a diet soft drink line.


I'm sorry I asked. That sounds incredibly stupid and makes me lose a little more faith in humanity. It sounds like they're trying to create a rift between religious people who are interested in social justice and atheists who are interested in social justice. That just doesn't make any sense. It'd be counterproductive to any actual social justice activism.

I can just imagine the conversation.

Group A: "We want women's rights and gay rights! We want to eliminate poverty! We want universal health care! We want freedom of religion even though we're religious!"

Group B: "Oh, you're religious? Well. We want those things too, but we can't work together with YOU people. Eew!"
 
2012-09-14 12:33:35 AM  

pxlboy: I hate neologisms and "clever" portmanteaus.



Portmanteaux

, maybe?
 
2012-09-14 12:33:37 AM  
Because women are completely incapable of ever disrespecting anyone else. *snort*

Way to perpetuate sexism by making falsely devicive distinctions.
 
2012-09-14 12:35:43 AM  

RoyBatty: I've seen things you mansplainers wouldn't believe. Attack Phalluses on fire off the shoulder of Venus... I've seen V-beams glitter in the darkness near the Tannhauser gate...


Holy shiat dude.
 
2012-09-14 12:36:08 AM  

GranoblasticMan: [i16.photobucket.com image 300x300]

/ Can someone mansplain this article to me?


In two words: Chicks, man.
 
2012-09-14 12:37:45 AM  

fluffy2097: styckx: I am clearly off my medication and someone should probably see to that.

ಠ_ಠ


fluffy2097: styckx: I am clearly off my medication and someone should probably see to that.

ಠ_ಠ


/May I suggest Meow Says the Dog? I'm sure your conversations would be epic wymsplaining!
//Tip from a professional whacko: Titrate, sweetie, NEVER go cold turkey ! (Almost killed myself 2x doing that.)
 
2012-09-14 12:37:51 AM  

penthesilea: A condensed example of some mansplaining:
(edits are my own)

[...snip...] "So? I hear you've written a couple of books."

I replied, "Several, actually."

He said, in the way you encourage your friend's seven-year-old to describe flute practice, "And what are they about?"

They were actually about quite a few different things,[...snip...]

He cut me off soon after I mentioned Muybridge. "And have you heard about the very important Muybridge book that came out this year?"

So caught up was I in my assigned role as ingénue that I was perfectly willing to entertain the possibility that another book on the same subject had come out simultaneously and I'd somehow missed it. He was already telling me about the very important book -- with that smug look I know so well in a man holding forth, eyes fixed on the fuzzy far horizon of his own authority.

[...snip...]
So, Mr. Very Important was going on smugly about this book I should have known when Sallie interrupted him to say, "That's her book." Or tried to interrupt him anyway.

But he just continued on his way. She had to say, "That's her book" three or four times before he finally took it in. And then, as if in a nineteenth-century novel, he went ashen. That I was indeed the author of the very important book it turned out he hadn't read, just read about in the New York Times Book Review a few months earlier, so confused the neat categories into which his world was sorted that he was stunned speechless -- for a moment, before he began holding forth again.


source and full article


I was feeling sorry for myself, a single man in my late 40's living alone, playing golf every weekend, going to as many baseball and hockey games as time and money would allow, and then I read that.

My life basically kicks ass if I don't have to put up with that bullshiat.
 
2012-09-14 12:38:35 AM  

doloresonthedottedline: If I thought more people would be as liberal with their use of the ignore button as I am, I'd speak up more often and just let people who wanted to post obnoxious shiat ignore me, but, alas, that doesn't happen.


This thread is a really good source of people to favorite or ignore, though. Maybe this wasn't a mistake.

/but more wine just in case



I gotta ask Dolores, all your -isms notwithstanding, don't you agree that when anyone tries to demonize, marginalize, or stereotype anyone else, by creating or using terms intentionally insulting and divisive, like "mansplaining", that we all lose? Doesn't that kind of thing redraw thicker battle lines, and move people away from consensus and mutual respect?
 
2012-09-14 12:39:05 AM  

doglover: kdraw: doglover: Patronizing. The term is patronizing.1. It's easier to say.2. It's a real thing.Its not the same. "Patronizing" has other connotations that make it sound more positive. I patronize the grocery store on a regular basis and they like it.Of course it isn't the same. Patronizing is a real thing. I wrote that.Also, you're sexist is you think patronizing only goes from man to woman. I've had more than a few people I've simply told to shut up (and many more bosses I wanted to tell to shut up) who were ignorant as sin trying to tell me my business. I do it too, when I'm not careful.So basically that's why it's called "patronizing" instead of "phallopressive enlighightenrape"


I lol'd.
 
2012-09-14 12:40:02 AM  

RoyBatty: There is plenty of femsplaining, basically it's called tumblr, and Jezebel, and xx factor, and free thought blogs, and pretty much any place that wants to police speech, and demand recognition of the oppression of women without actually discussing alternative points of view.


I can kind of understand why someone might come to this conclusion if they started with a prejudice against feminists already. But it's just wrong. They're not refusing to entertain alternative points of view. THEY HAVE ALREADY DISCUSSED ALTERNATIVE POINTS OF VIEW. That's what this whole mansplaining thing is about. If you treat them like idiots who don't fully understand issues, you might not be an irredeemable misogynist, but you are starting from a point of "I know more than these people."

And on a lot of the subjects they talk about, you usually don't know shiat.
 
2012-09-14 12:40:12 AM  

telaran: It sounds like they're trying to create a rift between religious people who are interested in social justice and atheists who are interested in social justice. That just doesn't make any sense. It'd be counterproductive to any actual social justice activism.


I haven't seen evidence of that yet. At my own peril my opinion of them draws on my impression of their behavior. They seem like the kind of people who are constantly looking for a way to feel oppressed, like anything that happens to them is because they've been victimized by someone else.

There's also a shiatload of hyperbole. If someone says "jesus christ I hope you get hit by a car" they commonly spin that as "OMG DEATH THREATS!!!" Or someone once said "you're too ugly to rape", which was promptly spun as a rape threat. It's just so dumb.
 
2012-09-14 12:40:51 AM  

Philbb: But seriously, do we need new terms for patronizing condescension just to specify that it involves people of different levels of privilege?


Of course! This sort of childish, point-scoring ally-alienating bullshiat* is much more satisfying to write articles about compared to boring and depressing shiat like rampant institutionalized sexism in developing nations and the recent and unrelenting attacks on reproductive rights from the GOP. They certainly have their priorities straight.

*For another recent example of this, see Man Flu
 
2012-09-14 12:43:31 AM  
*Do you actually know what you're talking about?

As Rebecca Solnit pointed out in her original post on the subject, mansplaining at its heart is about the cocksuredness of the ignorant. It's one thing to be an insufferable know-it-all when one actually does know it all. It's another thing -- a mansplainy thing -- to pretend you know more about botany or fractals or Riot Grrl than you actually do.


So what happens when women do this? Is it still mansplainy?
*eyeroll*
Stupid article is stupid. And insulting to men.


MeanJean: Mansplaining, or downsplaining, is when a person who has privilege attempts to "explain" to a Marginalized Person (tm) that they are wrong in their complaints about being marginalized.


This seems like a much more reasonable definition to me.
 
2012-09-14 12:44:10 AM  

FishyFred: RoyBatty: There is plenty of femsplaining, basically it's called tumblr, and Jezebel, and xx factor, and free thought blogs, and pretty much any place that wants to police speech, and demand recognition of the oppression of women without actually discussing alternative points of view.

I can kind of understand why someone might come to this conclusion if they started with a prejudice against feminists already. But it's just wrong. They're not refusing to entertain alternative points of view. THEY HAVE ALREADY DISCUSSED ALTERNATIVE POINTS OF VIEW. That's what this whole mansplaining thing is about. If you treat them like idiots who don't fully understand issues, you might not be an irredeemable misogynist, but you are starting from a point of "I know more than these people."

And on a lot of the subjects they talk about, you usually don't know shiat.


So um. How do your enlightened feminist views align with your desire for the book "I was a teenage dominatrix" on your amazon wish list?

/I read that book in high school.
//think I did a report on it...
 
2012-09-14 12:47:28 AM  

fluffy2097: So um. How do your enlightened feminist views align with your desire for the book "I was a teenage dominatrix" on your amazon wish list?


Author went to my alma mater. FX might turn it into a TV series. I'm waiting to see if they release a version for Kindle.

And I see no disconnect between my views and the desire to read that book. Secret societies and underground clubs -- sexual or not -- are fascinating to me anyway.
 
2012-09-14 12:47:40 AM  

Quadruple Entendre: doloresonthedottedline: If I thought more people would be as liberal with their use of the ignore button as I am, I'd speak up more often and just let people who wanted to post obnoxious shiat ignore me, but, alas, that doesn't happen.


This thread is a really good source of people to favorite or ignore, though. Maybe this wasn't a mistake.

/but more wine just in case


I gotta ask Dolores, all your -isms notwithstanding, don't you agree that when anyone tries to demonize, marginalize, or stereotype anyone else, by creating or using terms intentionally insulting and divisive, like "mansplaining", that we all lose? Doesn't that kind of thing redraw thicker battle lines, and move people away from consensus and mutual respect?


In theory. But see, here's the thing. In real life I've never been outspoken about my beliefs in a way that was anything but earnestly trying to get people to understand that I'm not insulting them or threatening them (kept a lot of beliefs to myself to be safe). And I'm a ridiculously idealistic person who tries to help everyone get along and respect each other and help each other and see that we have common goals and everything is better when we work together. I can't shake this core belief that if people just understood each other well enough, there would be a little bit of very civil debate about a few things, but otherwise we'd all get along wonderfully and things would be productive, etc.

And you know what? That just doesn't work. Ever. People are assholes and I've tried more times than I'd like to admit to bend over backwards and tie myself in knots to still find a way to get them to a point where they kind of almost respect each other or anything pleasant, and a lot of people just don't have that mode.

So I'm an extremely sweet and helpful person to everyone (in a non-Fark setting) and only try to get to know the people who already get why words like "mansplain" exist. It works well for me.

/almost replied to an earlier post you had in this thread to ask if we dated once
 
2012-09-14 12:47:41 AM  

ZipSplat: I haven't seen evidence of that yet. At my own peril my opinion of them draws on my impression of their behavior. They seem like the kind of people who are constantly looking for a way to feel oppressed, like anything that happens to them is because they've been victimized by someone else.

There's also a shiatload of hyperbole. If someone says "jesus christ I hope you get hit by a car" they commonly spin that as "OMG DEATH THREATS!!!" Or someone once said "you're too ugly to rape", which was promptly spun as a rape threat. It's just so dumb.


Is this group comprised of young, middle class white women and old white men?
 
2012-09-14 12:49:55 AM  

GranoblasticMan: [i16.photobucket.com image 300x300]

/ Can someone mansplain this article to me?


It's a woman thing. You wouldn't understand it.
 
2012-09-14 12:50:10 AM  

FishyFred: fluffy2097: So um. How do your enlightened feminist views align with your desire for the book "I was a teenage dominatrix" on your amazon wish list?

Author went to my alma mater. FX might turn it into a TV series. I'm waiting to see if they release a version for Kindle.

And I see no disconnect between my views and the desire to read that book. Secret societies and underground clubs -- sexual or not -- are fascinating to me anyway.


Swing and a miss.
/Don't mansplain to me
 
2012-09-14 12:51:45 AM  

FishyFred: The atheist community has had a problem with misogyny for years. Men in powerful positions used their influence to harass and intimidate women, often behind-the-scenes, often at conferences. I don't think anyone has "named names" but people who would know have done pretty much everything short of titling their blog posts "Re: Richard Dawkins."

Well-meaning people hoped that the problem would go away once the community reached a critical mass of equal representation, but once we got close and women like Rebecca Watson and Jen McCreight started bringing up women's issues -- everyone's issues, really, but clearly issues that hurt women more directly than they hurt men -- they were subjected to the most vile, ridiculous attacks by people who should know better.

But yeah, they've been "scapegoating" white men because they dared to mention a few negative experiences they've had at conferences. Come the fark on.


There's been little evidence of an epidemic of harassment or intimidation by powerful men.

The reason everyone is down on Rebecca Watson, Jen McCreight, et.al is not because they're merely bringing up womens' issues, it's because they're causing shiatloads of drama over problems they can't actually demonstrate to exist. Rebecca is boycotting TAM because she says "women aren't safe there"? What the fark? That's just dumb. She holds up anonymous YouTube comments and comments on her blog as evidence of the "rampant sexism" in the skeptical community.

It's incredibly stupid. The Skepchick/FTB community is trying to hallmonitor for something that doesn't exist. THAT is why they are getting so much vitriol and pushback. It's not because they're women. When Eugenie Scott goes up on stage nobody makes sexist remarks. She has everyone's utmost respect because she presents herself as a scientist who knows her shiat, not because she has decided to play the politics of shaming to force everyone to set her aside as a protected class.

Earn your way on the f*cking stage, ladies.
 
2012-09-14 12:53:08 AM  
Oh man, I totally know some elderly people who do this, but it's less about gender and more about them being old and be terrified that if they don't pass down the crucial information on how to best shop for a used car that the knowledge will be erased from the earth when they die. I'd like a clever word for that phenomenon, but sadly, it's just not as hip as mansplaining is.
 
2012-09-14 12:57:16 AM  

FishyFred: RoyBatty: There is plenty of femsplaining, basically it's called tumblr, and Jezebel, and xx factor, and free thought blogs, and pretty much any place that wants to police speech, and demand recognition of the oppression of women without actually discussing alternative points of view.

I can kind of understand why someone might come to this conclusion if they started with a prejudice against feminists already. But it's just wrong. They're not refusing to entertain alternative points of view. THEY HAVE ALREADY DISCUSSED ALTERNATIVE POINTS OF VIEW. That's what this whole mansplaining thing is about. If you treat them like idiots who don't fully understand issues, you might not be an irredeemable misogynist, but you are starting from a point of "I know more than these people."

And on a lot of the subjects they talk about, you usually don't know shiat.


Next time you're reading a blog or any forum that uses the word "mansplaining" ask yourself:

1) Is the person calling "mansplainer" trying to invite someone into a conversation?
2) Or trying to dismiss or ignore another person's point of view?
3) Is there any real attempt to tackle the mansplainer's position?
4) Do *you* believe the mansplainer maybe had a point?
5) Do *you* believe the mansplainer was trying to derail, or troll, or hijack a thread?
6) Is the phrase "what about the menz" likely to be used? Or "patriarchy hurts men too"?
7) What is the response of the others in the forum once the word "mansplain" has been given?
8) Is the mansplainer then banned? (Or perhaps the mansplainer just never seems to comment again?)

But maybe you are right, and the women at these forums, ranging in age from high school to retired, in multiple fields with multiple experiences, ARE all at the same level, and HAVE all considered it before, and YES, OBJECTIVELY THEY ARE RIGHT.
 
2012-09-14 01:01:17 AM  

doloresonthedottedline: In theory. But see, here's the thing. In real life I've never been outspoken about my beliefs in a way that was anything but earnestly trying to get people to understand that I'm not insulting them or threatening them (kept a lot of beliefs to myself to be safe). And I'm a ridiculously idealistic person who tries to help everyone get along and respect each other and help each other and see that we have common goals and everything is better when we work together. I can't shake this core belief that if people just understood each other well enough, there would be a little bit of very civil debate about a few things, but otherwise we'd all get along wonderfully and things would be productive, etc.

And you know what? That just doesn't work. Ever. People are assholes and I've tried more times than I'd like to admit to bend over backwards and tie myself in knots to still find a way to get them to a point where they kind of almost respect each other or anything pleasant, and a lot of people just don't have that mode.

So I'm an extremely sweet and helpful person to everyone (in a non-Fark setting) and only try to get to know the people who already get why words like "mansplain" exist. It works well for me.

/almost replied to an earlier post you had in this thread to ask if we dated once


The earlier post was hyperbole, and admittedly a bit over the top, but I used the imagery to make a point - it sucks when someone uses phrases that insult an entire group of people so generally.

I dig that you're probably a good person, and probably a generally cool chick, especially by your comments above. And I share your disdain for how people are turning out - but in my opinion, articles like this serve to remind us how absolutely, irrevocably divided and hate-filled people are. When I read stuff like this, blogs and articles with a nearly institutional air of disgust for the "other side", I'm truly shocked that the human race hasn't yet devolved into perpetual, murderous, hand-to-hand combat.

The ideal you describe is not one to be discarded, though. We can get there. I think we just need to start marginalizing the right people....assholes, of every gender, race, and cultural background, and avoid repeating the generalizations that relate to those superficial traits.
 
2012-09-14 01:01:37 AM  

AbbeySomeone: The must be dealt with firmly and with a calm, encouraging voice. Simple details are the best.


I believe you should have used the pronoun "They" in this sentence.
Should I explain proofreading, typing or the English language to you?
 
2012-09-14 01:01:50 AM  

GranoblasticMan: [i16.photobucket.com image 300x300]

/ Can someone mansplain this article to me?


Phallorepresive eightenrape is offensive to the womyn master race.
 
2012-09-14 01:02:12 AM  
i42.photobucket.com

I'm so glad I'm gay and don't have to put up with lady shiat like this.
 
2012-09-14 01:02:43 AM  

ZipSplat: There's been little evidence of an epidemic of harassment or intimidation by powerful men.


What would constitute evidence? Video? Audio? Reports from conferences? There was a dustup a year or two ago when a panel on women in secularism was made up entirely of men. Someone actually made it a point to mention in a presentation how attractive a particular video blogger was.

Or you can take their word for it that it happens. Or you can take my word for it because I used to be very involved and I saw it up close.

The reason everyone is down on Rebecca Watson, Jen McCreight, et.al is not because they're merely bringing up womens' issues, it's because they're causing shiatloads of drama over problems they can't actually demonstrate to exist. Rebecca is boycotting TAM because she says "women aren't safe there"? What the fark? That's just dumb. She holds up anonymous YouTube comments and comments on her blog as evidence of the "rampant sexism" in the skeptical community.

They're causing shiatloads of drama? They aren't doing the harassing. They aren't leaving those comments. She's boycotting TAM because they refuse to address the problem. Several conferences have instituted explicit anti-harassment policies and procedures. Why would they not do the same? How can you possibly oppose the idea behind such policies?

It's incredibly stupid. The Skepchick/FTB community is trying to hallmonitor for something that doesn't exist. THAT is why they are getting so much vitriol and pushback. It's not because they're women. When Eugenie Scott goes up on stage nobody makes sexist remarks. She has everyone's utmost respect because she presents herself as a scientist who knows her shiat, not because she has decided to play the politics of shaming to force everyone to set her aside as a protected class.

Read the nasty comments some time. They don't line up with what you're saying here.
 
2012-09-14 01:03:31 AM  

Egalitarian: oh look, misogynist Farkers insulted by a feminist joke. Boo hoo, did somebody hurt your fragile male egos?

"mansplaining" means "a man being condescending to a woman because he's a man and she's a woman." And furthermore if she thinks what he's saying is nonsensical or patently unfair, in addition to being condescending, that is more proof that he needs to "mansplain" to her silly women brainz until she accepts his superiority without question.

It's an in-joke on feminist blogs, get over it.

It does happen in real life though, This summer I had the misfortune to accidentally overhear a couple of guys mansplaining to a housewife about how the Democrats wanted to take everybody's guns because of the Batman shooting. They talked down to her like she was a 10 year old kid.


/It would surely help if you wouldn't equate all FARKers born with that most insidious of birth defects, the Y chromosome, to the Aurora wingnuts, who generally find themselves on the defensive in these forums (It's a good thing they can't digitize bullets!)
//It would greatly help also if you Femmes could GET A SENSE OF HUMOR! (I know several men who aren't using theirs-check Craigslist.) Yeah, I know, Craig is a guy, but he's known for single-handedly demolishing the newspaper industry, thus paving the way for pixel-candy such as Jezebel.
///WAIT! Am I MANSPLAINING? (Do I get any credit for only procreating a daughter-whom I am teaching to challenge conventional wisdom in all its forms?)
 
2012-09-14 01:07:24 AM  

Arthurgoboom: Lsherm: I didn't realize Hugo was a female name. This was clearly written by someone who has never been asked to load the dishwasher "the right way."

I'm a man, and I'm the one that has to explain the right way to load the dishwasher, so I'm getting a kick.


OH GOOD FOR YOU!

Way to miss the point.
 
2012-09-14 01:09:29 AM  
Anyone - male or female - who appends "man" or "bro" to a word has self-confidence and self-assurance issues.
 
2012-09-14 01:10:52 AM  
Has any one mentioned how all the dumb shiat she complains about and labels 'mansplaining' are things that everyone (both genders) do on a regular basis to everyone? And that the idea that only men do these things is the height of sexism?
 
2012-09-14 01:11:12 AM  

onyxruby: Guy who wrote this article is a professional troll that write a series of Jezebel about how horrible men are. Look at some of this guy's other work and you'll see some really whacked out stuff.

/Don't feed the trolls.


Never knew this guy wrote that song
 
2012-09-14 01:11:40 AM  

lewismarktwo: Has any one mentioned how all the dumb shiat she complains about and labels 'mansplaining' are things that everyone (both genders) do on a regular basis to everyone? And that the idea that only men do these things is the height of sexism?


We already discussed that. We're going to have to ban you for raising that point.
 
2012-09-14 01:11:56 AM  
Getting old is good. I actually reached the age where I looked at my last GF standing there, hands on hips and pouting... and just thought "I don't need this shiat anymore".
 
J1
2012-09-14 01:12:28 AM  
www.sinfest.net
 
2012-09-14 01:12:49 AM  
My favourite ever example of mansplaining was when I'd just had a baby and the husband of a friend of mine spent 20 minutes telling a midwife what an epidural is. He was a factory hand at the time. Some men bore you with what they know, but when they haven't got a clue but do it anyway, it's embarrassing - for them.
 
2012-09-14 01:13:03 AM  
Generalizations. Some women are smart, some are stupid, just like men.

Show me one who knows what the red button on the garbage disposal does. (or knew before just now that it existed)

Show me a pretty girl who knows how to change a tire. Good luck. And I don't mean IN THEORY, show me one who has actually done it!


I know several female engineers. ENGINEERS who don't know seriously basic information about how machines they use every day operate. It's not that they're terrible, but they are at the lower end of the pack (with many of the guys).


HOWEVER

The most competent person I have ever worked with was a woman named Eleanor, who had multiple degrees and they weren't just paper. She got stuff done and was super-efficient about it. And wasn't a biatch in any way.

Unfortunately, Eleanor has been the only one of her type so far.
 
2012-09-14 01:13:14 AM  

FishyFred: What would constitute evidence? Video? Audio? Reports from conferences? There was a dustup a year or two ago when a panel on women in secularism was made up entirely of men. Someone actually made it a point to mention in a presentation how attractive a particular video blogger was.

Or you can take their word for it that it happens. Or you can take my word for it because I used to be very involved and I saw it up close.


For the amount of outcry that they are presenting - yes, some kind of quantification would be nice. Reports? Polls? Consensus?

Saying how attractive someone is does not break the threshold of harassment. That someone would think it would lends more evidence to the notion that this isn't about what most people would consider an epidemic of harassment, it's more about a radical feminist insurgency trying to create the perception of one. FFS, people used to regularly "propose" to Rebecca, and she seemed totally cool with it. Rebecca herself has often made, and still makes, very sexual jokes about men and specific men on the SGU, her blog, and at conferences. You can't then dip the threshold for 'harassment' down to sweep in someone who says "you're pretty" to a woman on stage.

I'm not going to 'take someone's word for it' when they have demonstrated that their definitions have a heavy activist angle.

Read the nasty comments some time. They don't line up with what you're saying here.

I've read them. People are saying mean, nasty things for the same reason we're saying them in here. Rebecca Watson is a coont. Jen McCreight is a retarded biatch. Do I say these things because I have something in particular against women? No, I say them because I find them to be extremely unsavory, disingenuous people, and I want to verbally hurt them - and I know that gender-based insults seem to strike them the hardest.
 
2012-09-14 01:13:19 AM  
New Term, "Coontsplaining"
 
2012-09-14 01:13:49 AM  

FishyFred: Read the nasty comments some time. They don't line up with what you're saying here.


www.gigatonne.com
 
2012-09-14 01:15:43 AM  

Donn C. Drummond in Disguise: ///WAIT! Am I MANSPLAINING? (Do I get any credit for only procreating a daughter-whom I am teaching to challenge conventional wisdom in all its forms?)


No, you get no credit. You're uneducated, you're a conspiracy theorist, you procreated, and you've most likely created a more intelligent stupid version of you.

No credit. Your daughter is just going to be really smart at being an idiot.

Conspiracy theorists aren't stupid, they are usually very smart. But they're stupid because they focus narrowly on something they have no expertise about.

I'm not calling the guy down the street who dedicated his life to baseball cards stupid because he makes a living at it. But I'm not calling him stupid because he has expertise. You don't. About anything.
 
2012-09-14 01:16:08 AM  

doloresonthedottedline: In theory. But see, here's the thing. In real life I've never been outspoken about my beliefs in a way that was anything but earnestly trying to get people to understand that I'm not insulting them or threatening them (kept a lot of beliefs to myself to be safe). And I'm a ridiculously idealistic person who tries to help everyone get along and respect each other and help each other and see that we have common goals and everything is better when we work together. I can't shake this core belief that if people just understood each other well enough, there would be a little bit of very civil debate about a few things, but otherwise we'd all get along wonderfully and things would be productive, etc.

And you know what? That just doesn't work. Ever. People are assholes and I've tried more times than I'd like to admit to bend over backwards and tie myself in knots to still find a way to get them to a point where they kind of almost respect each other or anything pleasant, and a lot of people just don't have that mode.

So I'm an extremely sweet and helpful person to everyone (in a non-Fark setting) and only try to get to know the people who already get why words like "mansplain" exist. It works well for me.


I don't know how much of a feminist you are, or how often you visit feminist blogs, but I ask you to stand back a foot or two, reread what you wrote and then read some of these, and then perhaps have a chuckle at the human condition.

Geekfeminism: Nice Guy Syndrome

Heartless biatches: Nice Guys = Bleah

Heartless biatches: Nice Guys = Bleah : Why "Nice Guys" are often such LOSERS

Anyway, you sound nice, you really do.
 
2012-09-14 01:17:26 AM  

Quadruple Entendre: doloresonthedottedline: In theory. But see, here's the thing. In real life I've never been outspoken about my beliefs in a way that was anything but earnestly trying to get people to understand that I'm not insulting them or threatening them (kept a lot of beliefs to myself to be safe). And I'm a ridiculously idealistic person who tries to help everyone get along and respect each other and help each other and see that we have common goals and everything is better when we work together. I can't shake this core belief that if people just understood each other well enough, there would be a little bit of very civil debate about a few things, but otherwise we'd all get along wonderfully and things would be productive, etc.

And you know what? That just doesn't work. Ever. People are assholes and I've tried more times than I'd like to admit to bend over backwards and tie myself in knots to still find a way to get them to a point where they kind of almost respect each other or anything pleasant, and a lot of people just don't have that mode.

So I'm an extremely sweet and helpful person to everyone (in a non-Fark setting) and only try to get to know the people who already get why words like "mansplain" exist. It works well for me.

/almost replied to an earlier post you had in this thread to ask if we dated once

The earlier post was hyperbole, and admittedly a bit over the top, but I used the imagery to make a point - it sucks when someone uses phrases that insult an entire group of people so generally.

I dig that you're probably a good person, and probably a generally cool chick, especially by your comments above. And I share your disdain for how people are turning out - but in my opinion, articles like this serve to remind us how absolutely, irrevocably divided and hate-filled people are. When I read stuff like this, blogs and articles with a nearly institutional air of disgust for the "other side", I'm truly shocked that the human race hasn't yet devolved into perpetual, murderous, hand-to-hand combat.

The ideal you describe is not one to be discarded, though. We can get there. I think we just need to start marginalizing the right people....assholes, of every gender, race, and cultural background, and avoid repeating the generalizations that relate to those superficial traits.


I hate Jezebel and generally avoid it like the plague--they're only into feminism in the feel-good "YOU GO GIRL" sense and when it's something like this that gets page views. So, no complaints on hating the article. And I don't think there's anything useful about the term "mansplain" outside of websites for only very involved feminists (like I Blame the Patriarchy).

CSS: When I was in high school, I had this summer smart kid camp scholarship program (whatever), and they had a series of seminars called "Isms of Prejudice." One was about religion, and they invited people with less known religions to speak up. I was there talking about Modern Satanism, which I was into at the time. I was up there on stage, this short girl with her hair curled, wearing a flowery pink polo and Mary Janes or something, super bubbly voice, trying to explain the virtues of the belief system. (Later realized humanism was a more accurate description and was happy to toss LaVey aside.)
 
2012-09-14 01:20:23 AM  

ZipSplat: It's incredibly stupid. The Skepchick/FTB community is trying to hallmonitor for something that doesn't exist.


Not just hallmonitoring, they're trying to actively manufacture these faults, by choosing a designated scapegoat and nitpicking his/her every word and action until they find something to declare wrong, then bullying him/her out of every relationship he/she has because they need to prove themselves correct.

/then they congratulate themselves on being perceptive enough to find and destroy the imperfection
//they only need an official building to become Orwell's Ministry of Love
 
2012-09-14 01:20:47 AM  
The only time the term occurs to me is if a man tells me how I should feel about a feminist issue. Stupid example (but one that shouldn't cause an argument): I hate the movie Death Proof, but several male friends tell me I'm wrong for not liking it, because "it's a feminist movie." To me, mansplaining is the equivalent of me, a white person, telling a non-white person how to feel about racism in America. The article is offensive, however, in a trolltastic way, and makes Jezebel look like a typical vapid ladymag except biatchier.
 
2012-09-14 01:21:57 AM  

doloresonthedottedline: In theory. But see, here's the thing. In real life I've never been outspoken about my beliefs in a way that was anything but earnestly trying to get people to understand that I'm not insulting them or threatening them


One problem is that the word "mansplain" itself, on its very face, sounds so condescending to people who might otherwise agree with you that it doesn't even matter if you try to convince them that you're not being insulting, you're going to get backlash. It's like calling a girl a bimbo and then insisting that you weren't trying to be rude. I know why the word exists, my mom was an academic feminist, and I still think that the word itself is both useless (in that it is very easily supplanted by other more common words) and counterproductive (in that it sets otherwise agreeable people on the defensive). TBH it seems mostly like a word that feminists use to complain about men than a word that is useful in any rhetorical fashion.
 
2012-09-14 01:23:18 AM  
When she talks, are you listening to what she's saying or merely rehearsing your next line?

I'll give you three guesses.
 
2012-09-14 01:25:00 AM  

ChaoticLimbs:

Show me one who knows what the red button on the garbage disposal does. (or knew before just now that it existed)

Show me a pretty girl who knows how to change a tire. Good luck. And I don't mean IN THEORY, show me one who has actually done it!


Me, and me.

I've also replaced the alternator, various belts, and the driver's side (power) window, not to mention all the smaller car maintenance stuff I've done like changing my own oil, replacing my brake pads, and replacing a worn-out electrical relay.

I'm also getting a PhD in physics.
 
2012-09-14 01:25:37 AM  

Gawdzila: So what happens when women do this?


And this, ladies and gentleman, is the crux of the whole gender equality issue. If you've so polarized that you believe some bullshiat like "Oh MEN are always so condescending, but women almost never are!" you've gone full derp. Stop thinking of and categorizing people based on what organs they have between their legs and realize that personality, by and large, is not determined by sex.

But then, I'm just being misogynistic I guess.
 
2012-09-14 01:26:20 AM  

ZombiesYall: The only time the term occurs to me is if a man tells me how I should feel about a feminist issue. Stupid example (but one that shouldn't cause an argument): I hate the movie Death Proof, but several male friends tell me I'm wrong for not liking it, because "it's a feminist movie." To me, mansplaining is the equivalent of me, a white person, telling a non-white person how to feel about racism in America. The article is offensive, however, in a trolltastic way, and makes Jezebel look like a typical vapid ladymag except biatchier.


"biatchier" (be-shi-AY) sounds like a French word for a periodical of complaints from local townsfolk.
 
2012-09-14 01:27:55 AM  
Yes, a lot of men are big jerks. Yes, they should be discouraged from acting that way.
No, articles like this will not accomplish that.
 
2012-09-14 01:29:45 AM  

doloresonthedottedline: I Blame the Patriarchy


Apparently, women aren't very good with computer-stuff.

puu.sh
 
2012-09-14 01:30:08 AM  
Ladies,
I have a habit of doing this. I am aware of it, and working to correct it.

I also enjoy wine and a good cry sometimes.

/how you doin'
 
2012-09-14 01:30:21 AM  

RoyBatty: doloresonthedottedline: In theory. But see, here's the thing. In real life I've never been outspoken about my beliefs in a way that was anything but earnestly trying to get people to understand that I'm not insulting them or threatening them (kept a lot of beliefs to myself to be safe). And I'm a ridiculously idealistic person who tries to help everyone get along and respect each other and help each other and see that we have common goals and everything is better when we work together. I can't shake this core belief that if people just understood each other well enough, there would be a little bit of very civil debate about a few things, but otherwise we'd all get along wonderfully and things would be productive, etc.

And you know what? That just doesn't work. Ever. People are assholes and I've tried more times than I'd like to admit to bend over backwards and tie myself in knots to still find a way to get them to a point where they kind of almost respect each other or anything pleasant, and a lot of people just don't have that mode.

So I'm an extremely sweet and helpful person to everyone (in a non-Fark setting) and only try to get to know the people who already get why words like "mansplain" exist. It works well for me.

I don't know how much of a feminist you are, or how often you visit feminist blogs, but I ask you to stand back a foot or two, reread what you wrote and then read some of these, and then perhaps have a chuckle at the human condition.

Geekfeminism: Nice Guy Syndrome

Heartless biatches: Nice Guys = Bleah

Heartless biatches: Nice Guys = Bleah : Why "Nice Guys" are often such LOSERS

Anyway, you sound nice, you really do.


I loved that website in high school, actually--can't believe it's still around (I'm 24). Which is weird because I was wondering just the other day if it still existed.

Too many ways to take what you said, so I'm not sure exactly what you meant.

I went through a phase where I read a ton of feminist blogs, but that lined up with the start of the 2008 primaries, and between the misogyny directed toward Hillary from Obama-loving "feminists" and the later misogyny directed toward Palin (plenty of valid reasons to hate her outside of gender), my reading list was whittled down to a few blogs like I Blame the Patriarchy, Echidne of the Snakes, Anglachel, Elizabiatchez, etc.
And most of them have become significantly less active for probably the same reason that I started avoiding most feminist websites.


People suck and are too easily swayed to hate "the other team." Mansplaining is a word that should only be used to vent in the context someone gave above of a privileged person explaining why a marginalized person isn't REALLY marginalized. Or I guess as a convenient tool by feminist separatists who just can't handle this shiat anymore and want men to leave them alone, haha.
 
2012-09-14 01:30:42 AM  
 
2012-09-14 01:30:49 AM  

FizixJunkee: ChaoticLimbs:

Show me one who knows what the red button on the garbage disposal does. (or knew before just now that it existed)

Show me a pretty girl who knows how to change a tire. Good luck. And I don't mean IN THEORY, show me one who has actually done it!


Me, and me.


You're saying you're pretty?
 
2012-09-14 01:32:18 AM  

FizixJunkee: ChaoticLimbs:

Show me one who knows what the red button on the garbage disposal does. (or knew before just now that it existed)

Show me a pretty girl who knows how to change a tire. Good luck. And I don't mean IN THEORY, show me one who has actually done it!


Me, and me.

I've also replaced the alternator, various belts, and the driver's side (power) window, not to mention all the smaller car maintenance stuff I've done like changing my own oil, replacing my brake pads, and replacing a worn-out electrical relay.

I'm also getting a PhD in physics.


Andulamb: When she talks, are you listening to what she's saying or merely rehearsing your next line?

I'll give you three guesses.


Trick question. The real answer is: I'm staring at her boobs.
 
2012-09-14 01:33:07 AM  
Wait...this thread needed a trigger warning alert because my fragile female feelings might be hurt!

/kidding

But seriously, I stop taking people seriously when they use terms like "mansplaining".
 
2012-09-14 01:34:58 AM  

doglover: ZombiesYall: The only time the term occurs to me is if a man tells me how I should feel about a feminist issue. Stupid example (but one that shouldn't cause an argument): I hate the movie Death Proof, but several male friends tell me I'm wrong for not liking it, because "it's a feminist movie." To me, mansplaining is the equivalent of me, a white person, telling a non-white person how to feel about racism in America. The article is offensive, however, in a trolltastic way, and makes Jezebel look like a typical vapid ladymag except biatchier.

"biatchier" (be-shi-AY) sounds like a French word for a periodical of complaints from local townsfolk.


Good point. You could go by that logic and make it a person who complains as well, like a barbier cuts hair.
 
2012-09-14 01:35:17 AM  

GranoblasticMan: Gawdzila: So what happens when women do this?

And this, ladies and gentleman, is the crux of the whole gender equality issue. If you'vere so polarized that you believe some bullshiat like "Oh MEN are always so condescending, but women almost never are!" you've gone full derp. Stop thinking of and categorizing people based on what organs they have between their legs and realize that personality, by and large, is not determined by sex.

But then, I'm just being misogynistic I guess.


FTFM...

GranoblasticMan: FizixJunkee: ChaoticLimbs:

Show me one who knows what the red button on the garbage disposal does. (or knew before just now that it existed)

Show me a pretty girl who knows how to change a tire. Good luck. And I don't mean IN THEORY, show me one who has actually done it!


Me, and me.

I've also replaced the alternator, various belts, and the driver's side (power) window, not to mention all the smaller car maintenance stuff I've done like changing my own oil, replacing my brake pads, and replacing a worn-out electrical relay.

I'm also getting a PhD in physics.


(forgot what I was going to say here...)


Andulamb: When she talks, are you listening to what she's saying or merely rehearsing your next line?

I'll give you three guesses.

Trick question. The real answer is: I'm staring at her boobs.



And there we go.

Man, I am really failing at Fark tonight.
 
2012-09-14 01:37:14 AM  

Gawdzila: doloresonthedottedline: In theory. But see, here's the thing. In real life I've never been outspoken about my beliefs in a way that was anything but earnestly trying to get people to understand that I'm not insulting them or threatening them

One problem is that the word "mansplain" itself, on its very face, sounds so condescending to people who might otherwise agree with you that it doesn't even matter if you try to convince them that you're not being insulting, you're going to get backlash. It's like calling a girl a bimbo and then insisting that you weren't trying to be rude. I know why the word exists, my mom was an academic feminist, and I still think that the word itself is both useless (in that it is very easily supplanted by other more common words) and counterproductive (in that it sets otherwise agreeable people on the defensive). TBH it seems mostly like a word that feminists use to complain about men than a word that is useful in any rhetorical fashion.


It is just something used to vent and commiserate, nothing more. It's only on Jezebel for controversy and page views.

I've never use the word in real life except to explain to my boyfriend what it means (he's unbelievably feminist somehow on his own without knowing any of the terms--"mansplaining" is something he's ranted about on his own without knowing the word). Don't think I've ever used it online.
 
2012-09-14 01:40:00 AM  
Receptionist: How do you write women so well?
Melvin Udall: Easy. I think of a man, and I take away reason and accountability.
 
2012-09-14 01:41:45 AM  
Euclidean geometry. Parabolic geometry. Hyperbolic geometry. Projective geometry. Differential geometry. Algebra. Limits, continuity, differentiation, integration. Physical chemistry. Organic chemistry. Biochemistry. Classical mechanics. The indeterminacy principle. The wave equation. The Parthenon. The Anabasis. Air conditioning. Number theory. Romanesque architecture. Gothic architecture. Information theory. Entropy. Enthalpy. Almost every symphony ever written. Pierre Auguste Renoir. The twelve-tone scale. The mathematics behind it, twelfth root of two and all that. S-p hybrid bonding orbitals. The Bohr-Sommerfeld atom. The purine-pyrimidine structure of the DNA ladder. Single-sideband radio. All other radio. Dentistry. The internal-combustion engine. Turbojets. Turbofans. Doppler beam-sharpening. Penicillin. Airplanes. Surgery. The mammogram. The Pill. The condom. Polio vaccine. The integrated circuit. The computer. Football. Computational fluid dynamics. Tensors. The Constitution. Euripides, Sophocles, Aristophanes, Aeschylus, Homer, Hesiod. Glass. Rubber. Nylon. Roads. Buildings. Elvis. Acetylcholinesterase inhibitors. (OK, those are nerve agents, and maybe we didn't really need them.) Silicone. The automobile. Really weird stuff, like clathrates, Buckyballs, and rotaxanes. The Bible. Bug spray. Diffie-Hellman, public-key cryptography, and RSA. Et cetera.

Yup, that's what men did. We don't need to explain it, you use it every day. This "word" is worthless.
 
2012-09-14 01:41:50 AM  
From now on, I think I'm going to boy-cott Jezebel.

Ba dum tssh
 
2012-09-14 01:43:57 AM  

FizixJunkee: I'm also getting a PhD in physics.


I like you already.
 
2012-09-14 01:44:57 AM  
@ZipSplat

I ignored you earlier and only saw your screenshot of IBTP by chance, but, I think you might need to update Firefox? The website works fine on my iPad. The blogger uses a Mac and iPad, I think, so it might be that, but.
 
2012-09-14 01:48:10 AM  

rohar: Yup, that's what men did. We don't need to explain it, you use it every day. This "word" is worthless.


That's right! You're a MAN who discovered the WHEEL and built the EIFFEL TOWER out of METAL and BRAWN! That's what kind of MAN you are! They're just WOMEN with SMALL BRAINS, with brains a THIRD the size of OURS! It's SCIENCE!
 
2012-09-14 01:51:48 AM  

Olympic Trolling Judge: rohar: Yup, that's what men did. We don't need to explain it, you use it every day. This "word" is worthless.

That's right! You're a MAN who discovered the WHEEL and built the EIFFEL TOWER out of METAL and BRAWN! That's what kind of MAN you are! They're just WOMEN with SMALL BRAINS, with brains a THIRD the size of OURS! It's SCIENCE!


Sadly no, I just wrote a bunch of math that allows computers to understand the context of the content of a video so when you search for the "ow my balls" video on the internet, you get the right one rather than a video where someone commented "ow my balls" in the comment section. Yeah, I know, not earth changing, but it turns out our strongest audience is WOMEN between the ages of 20 and 40. I swear, no matter how much easier we guys make life, we're catching shiat from some woman for doing it.
 
2012-09-14 01:54:34 AM  

rohar: Yup, that's what men did.


To be fair, women were handicapped by ages upon ages of not having access to the universities and teachers that the men who invented many of those things did, and even when they did have access, were heavily discouraged from it.
 
2012-09-14 01:56:50 AM  

FishyFred: That's what this whole mansplaining thing is about. If you treat them like idiots who don't fully understand issues


But they don't.
 
2012-09-14 01:58:46 AM  

doloresonthedottedline: It's only on Jezebel for controversy and page views.


Lol, well I guess it works for that purpose.
 
2012-09-14 02:02:26 AM  

doloresonthedottedline: I went through a phase where I read a ton of feminist blogs, but that lined up with the start of the 2008 primaries, and between the misogyny directed toward Hillary from Obama-loving "feminists" and the later misogyny directed toward Palin (plenty of valid reasons to hate her outside of gender), my reading list was whittled down to a few blogs like I Blame the Patriarchy, Echidne of the Snakes, Anglachel, Elizabiatchez, etc.
And most of them have become significantly less active for probably the same reason that I started avoiding most feminist websites.


I read Twisty from time to time because she writes well, and she is honest about her blaming. I often if not mostly disagree with her, but I find her a lot more intellectually honest than most of her sisters.

I actually agree with you 1000% on what happened with Hillary vs. Obama AND about reasons why to dislike Palin.

I generally identify as liberal, but I am very annoyed with liberals somehow thinking "we" have a natural monopoly on women, gays, people of color, and that any Republican woman, gay, or person of color is somehow irrational, stupid, or a self-loathing traitor. I think it would be very good for "us" to lose some of these communities in part or whole.

And yeah, most of my feelings in this direction may not have occurred until after a disastrous divorce that has left me with very alienated kids, and seemingly a very liberal internet that blames me for it all.

Regarding the "nice guy" stuff up above, I basically was saying it sounds like your behavior was completely reasonable and described as nice. In the feminist world, often, men who have similar behavior are described as passive aggressive, wimpy and not willing to take responsibility for their desires, are said to make assumptions that a quid pro quo for being nice is expected sex. A lot of that "theory" was developed to answer the question in feminist circles of "why feminists like to date abusers" the answer actually being that for feminist a bad boy abusive abuser is actually more honest to a feminist and willing to be clear about his horrible male desires. In some ways it's appalling, in some ways funny, and in some ways, well, true, but way over the top now, just like mansplaining is. Basically I was saying your behavior of being nice and then finding out other people are not nice in return, is somewhat similar to how feminists put down the nice guy. It's not that you're nice in these forums, it's that you're passive aggressive and wimpy and then blaming of others when they don't respond as you expect and demand them to. That would be the case if you were a nice guy. (See also feminist critique of Taylor Swift's girl next door song). Since you are a woman, the feminist reason for how you are treated is because men are assholes forums filled with mansplainers and abusers and a safe space is needed where misogynists will be banned.

Anyway, enough of my mansplaining this.

Well, this got long.
 
2012-09-14 02:04:32 AM  

ZombiesYall: doglover: ZombiesYall: The only time the term occurs to me is if a man tells me how I should feel about a feminist issue. Stupid example (but one that shouldn't cause an argument): I hate the movie Death Proof, but several male friends tell me I'm wrong for not liking it, because "it's a feminist movie." To me, mansplaining is the equivalent of me, a white person, telling a non-white person how to feel about racism in America. The article is offensive, however, in a trolltastic way, and makes Jezebel look like a typical vapid ladymag except biatchier.

"biatchier" (be-shi-AY) sounds like a French word for a periodical of complaints from local townsfolk.

Good point. You could go by that logic and make it a person who complains as well, like a barbier cuts hair.


But the biatchier would be popular, like a new Team Four Star episode.
 
2012-09-14 02:09:35 AM  
This is a very well done video that will make sense and be funny only to the very small group of people that know or care about the great Atheism Plus split (aka the People's Front of PZ Myers)

Link
 
2012-09-14 02:11:27 AM  

RoyBatty: doloresonthedottedline: I went through a phase where I read a ton of feminist blogs, but that lined up with the start of the 2008 primaries, and between the misogyny directed toward Hillary from Obama-loving "feminists" and the later misogyny directed toward Palin (plenty of valid reasons to hate her outside of gender), my reading list was whittled down to a few blogs like I Blame the Patriarchy, Echidne of the Snakes, Anglachel, Elizabiatchez, etc.
And most of them have become significantly less active for probably the same reason that I started avoiding most feminist websites.

I read Twisty from time to time because she writes well, and she is honest about her blaming. I often if not mostly disagree with her, but I find her a lot more intellectually honest than most of her sisters.

I actually agree with you 1000% on what happened with Hillary vs. Obama AND about reasons why to dislike Palin.

I generally identify as liberal, but I am very annoyed with liberals somehow thinking "we" have a natural monopoly on women, gays, people of color, and that any Republican woman, gay, or person of color is somehow irrational, stupid, or a self-loathing traitor. I think it would be very good for "us" to lose some of these communities in part or whole.

And yeah, most of my feelings in this direction may not have occurred until after a disastrous divorce that has left me with very alienated kids, and seemingly a very liberal internet that blames me for it all.

Regarding the "nice guy" stuff up above, I basically was saying it sounds like your behavior was completely reasonable and described as nice. In the feminist world, often, men who have similar behavior are described as passive aggressive, wimpy and not willing to take responsibility for their desires, are said to make assumptions that a quid pro quo for being nice is expected sex. A lot of that "theory" was developed to answer the question in feminist circles of "why feminists like to date abusers" the answer actually being that for feminist a bad boy abusive abuser is actually more honest to a feminist and willing to be clear about his horrible male desires. In some ways it's appalling, in some ways funny, and in some ways, well, true, but way over the top now, just like mansplaining is. Basically I was saying your behavior of being nice and then finding out other people are not nice in return, is somewhat similar to how feminists put down the nice guy. It's not that you're nice in these forums, it's that you're passive aggressive and wimpy and then blaming of others when they don't respond as you expect and demand them to. That would be the case if you were a nice guy. (See also feminist critique of Taylor Swift's girl next door song). Since you are a woman, the feminist reason for how you are treated is because men are assholes forums filled with mansplainers and abusers and a safe space is needed where misogynists will be banned.

Anyway, enough of my mansplaining this.

Well, this got long.


Haha, I found it interesting!

I always thought of nice guys as the brooding types who go around wailing "BUT IM SO NICE WHY DON'T GIRLS LIKE ME" while thinking that relationships are like customer rewards programs--after a certain amount of niceness, they can cash it in for sex and/or a relationship. Or the types who only ever befriend girls who are clearly not interested but think if they're just good enough they'll earn the girl's affection, and then post on their LiveJournals about how all women are biatches when the girl dates some "jerk." I know a lot of guys get confused by how that term is used, and I guess there are various ways people mean the (negative) term "nice guy."

I always just assumed feminists dated shiatty guys because the pickins are slim (that goes for both sides--I don't have that many female friends either). Although I did once date a total raging asshole who I was super attracte to because I hoped he his misogyny would carry over into bed and I'm a masochist, but, alas, that was the one and only context where he was sweet and not a douche (no pun intended). Which is still a mystery.

Anyway, never thought of "nice guy" as being related to that. Interesting idea, though.
 
2012-09-14 02:13:06 AM  

Lsherm: Ignored "Lsherm". If you want to completely hide ignored user comments, change the "Show header of ignored comments" option in your user profile.


Your sarcasm/humor meter has reached the end of its useful life. Most folks are upgrading to digital models now.
/You might find some kindred spirits at the Primitive (Predestinarian) Baptist Church down the road. They have all the even-handed, cheerful, tolerant
qualities you do.
//Now get out there and make the world a place of sunshine, lollipops and rain bows (You're well on your way!)
 
2012-09-14 02:15:39 AM  

doloresonthedottedline: only context where he was sweet and not a douche (no pun intended)


Oh no! That would indeed be pretty terrible. :(
 
2012-09-14 02:16:23 AM  

RoyBatty: This is a very well done video that will make sense and be funny only to the very small group of people that know or care about the great Atheism Plus split (aka the People's Front of PZ Myers)

Link


PZ Myers is involved with Atheism Plus?

That's all I need to hear about it. He's a complete joke.
 
2012-09-14 02:16:33 AM  
In every women's studies class I ever took, there was an obnoxious right-wing conservative man who signed up for the class supposedly to "provide an alternate viewpoint" or to "play devil's advocate." Maybe they thought they would see topless lesbians making out, I don't know. The thing is, a lot of the world outside those classrooms already was that guy's viewpoint, and damn if we hadn't already heard it, so why he needed to deliver it to us as an "alternative" was beyond me. I think those are the types of guys that the feminist forums don't want to hear from.
 
2012-09-14 02:19:02 AM  

mesmer242: Oh man, I totally know some elderly people who do this, but it's less about gender and more about them being old and be terrified that if they don't pass down the crucial information on how to best shop for a used car that the knowledge will be erased from the earth when they die. I'd like a clever word for that phenomenon, but sadly, it's just not as hip as mansplaining is.


Senexplaining?

/got nothin'
 
2012-09-14 02:20:26 AM  

ZombiesYall: In every women's studies class I ever took, there was an obnoxious right-wing conservative man who signed up for the class supposedly to "provide an alternate viewpoint" or to "play devil's advocate." Maybe they thought they would see topless lesbians making out, I don't know. The thing is, a lot of the world outside those classrooms already was that guy's viewpoint, and damn if we hadn't already heard it, so why he needed to deliver it to us as an "alternative" was beyond me. I think those are the types of guys that the feminist forums don't want to hear from.


And it wasn't the same guy signing up for all the classes, I just mean there's always one.
 
2012-09-14 02:26:47 AM  
'STFU' he 'mansplained' to her.
 
2012-09-14 02:29:54 AM  

Apos: What an asinine synonym for male patronization.


Everything's a portmanteau these days. Very overused.

/makes me long for the days of the chimpmanzee.
 
2012-09-14 02:32:20 AM  

ZombiesYall: In every women's studies class I ever took, there was an obnoxious right-wing conservative man who signed up for the class supposedly to "provide an alternate viewpoint" or to "play devil's advocate." Maybe they thought they would see topless lesbians making out, I don't know. The thing is, a lot of the world outside those classrooms already was that guy's viewpoint, and damn if we hadn't already heard it, so why he needed to deliver it to us as an "alternative" was beyond me. I think those are the types of guys that the feminist forums don't want to hear from.


Sorry to hear it. I just wonder what the hell compels people like that to step into feminist turf. Like a creationist walking into a biology class.

/I showed sympathy. Now you have to sleep with me.
 
2012-09-14 02:37:44 AM  

rat_creature: mesmer242: Oh man, I totally know some elderly people who do this, but it's less about gender and more about them being old and be terrified that if they don't pass down the crucial information on how to best shop for a used car that the knowledge will be erased from the earth when they die. I'd like a clever word for that phenomenon, but sadly, it's just not as hip as mansplaining is.

Senexplaining?

/got nothin'


Cloudsplaining.
 
2012-09-14 02:39:00 AM  
So this is the problem I have with some modern Internet feminists (a subset of third-wave feminists), and to an extent with a portion of the entire social-justice movement as it's existed for the last decade or so:

There has developed a kind of insularity -- a clique that has a certain set of terms they insist be used, with meanings they insist be defined exactly as they wish. For made-up terms, this is not so bad -- nobody knows what "cisgendered" or "kyriarchy" mean the first time they see them; you have to look them up and then you find out. They were invented by specific people who gave them specific meaning. But there are some terms that get sticky, like "privilege". I know what they mean by it, and I'm on board with the concept that they mean -- but the word "privilege" itself had a pre-existing meaning of "something granted by the will of another party".

Us white guys have certain advantages in society, whether we or anybody else particularly wants it that way. But the insistence of the most vocal segment of the social-justice crowd on using the term "privilege" to describe that phenomenon inevitably derails the conversation when some white guy (focusing on the mechanism implied by the word, rather than the result) reacts to it by saying "Nobody ever gave me anything just because I was white/male!"

So, take the made-up terms and the terms appropriated from their common meaning to a specific meaning they don't quite fit into, add in the insistence on using those appropriated terms in exactly the approved way and no other, some outright othering language like using "ally" to describe others riding the social-justice train in this way (if you're not an ally, what are you?), and the tendency to describe any questioning of the accepted doctrine and terminology as "derailing", and what you get feels very Newspeak. And the part that really creeps me out is, nobody is imposing this on them -- it is entirely self-imposed and rigidly enforced by the group. Dissent is absolutely not tolerated.

For a long time I thought maybe this was just my deep-seated white-guy not-getting-it making me feel this way, and then I found this essay. So it's not just me -- women who describe themselves as feminists can and do feel as though there's something fundamentally cult-like going on.
 
2012-09-14 02:46:17 AM  

Olympic Trolling Judge: ZombiesYall: In every women's studies class I ever took, there was an obnoxious right-wing conservative man who signed up for the class supposedly to "provide an alternate viewpoint" or to "play devil's advocate." Maybe they thought they would see topless lesbians making out, I don't know. The thing is, a lot of the world outside those classrooms already was that guy's viewpoint, and damn if we hadn't already heard it, so why he needed to deliver it to us as an "alternative" was beyond me. I think those are the types of guys that the feminist forums don't want to hear from.

Sorry to hear it. I just wonder what the hell compels people like that to step into feminist turf. Like a creationist walking into a biology class.

/I showed sympathy. Now you have to sleep with me.


It is like pulling the hair of the young lass in front of you.

/They haven't grown emotionally since the 3rd grade.
 
2012-09-14 02:46:25 AM  

mesmer242: Oh man, I totally know some elderly people who do this, but it's less about gender and more about them being old and be terrified that if they don't pass down the crucial information on how to best shop for a used car that the knowledge will be erased from the earth when they die. I'd like a clever word for that phenomenon, but sadly, it's just not as hip as mansplaining is.


It is the duty of somebody who's endured the consequences of a bad decision to warn others. For example, ask some "old people" who have made the mistake of not only sticking it in crazy, but marrying it afterwards. The Fark Ex-Husbands Brigade has some interesting stories on that.
 
2012-09-14 02:48:36 AM  

Kensey: So this is the problem I have with some modern Internet feminists (a subset of third-wave feminists), and to an extent with a portion of the entire social-justice movement as it's existed for the last decade or so:

There has developed a kind of insularity -- a clique that has a certain set of terms they insist be used, with meanings they insist be defined exactly as they wish. For made-up terms, this is not so bad -- nobody knows what "cisgendered" or "kyriarchy" mean the first time they see them; you have to look them up and then you find out. They were invented by specific people who gave them specific meaning. But there are some terms that get sticky, like "privilege". I know what they mean by it, and I'm on board with the concept that they mean -- but the word "privilege" itself had a pre-existing meaning of "something granted by the will of another party".

Us white guys have certain advantages in society, whether we or anybody else particularly wants it that way. But the insistence of the most vocal segment of the social-justice crowd on using the term "privilege" to describe that phenomenon inevitably derails the conversation when some white guy (focusing on the mechanism implied by the word, rather than the result) reacts to it by saying "Nobody ever gave me anything just because I was white/male!"

So, take the made-up terms and the terms appropriated from their common meaning to a specific meaning they don't quite fit into, add in the insistence on using those appropriated terms in exactly the approved way and no other, some outright othering language like using "ally" to describe others riding the social-justice train in this way (if you're not an ally, what are you?), and the tendency to describe any questioning of the accepted doctrine and terminology as "derailing", and what you get feels very Newspeak. And the part that really creeps me out is, nobody is imposing this on them -- it is entirely self-imposed and rigidly enforced by the group. Di ...


Umm, you can pretty much dismiss people who say gurl or womyn.
 
2012-09-14 02:49:56 AM  

telaran: PZ Myers is involved with Atheism Plus?

That's all I need to hear about it. He's a complete joke.


Five or so years ago I used to read his blog, and he had an interesting, informed take on atheism with some science and feminism discussion as well. Now... well, he's not quite L Ron Hubbard, but there's a real "if someone disagrees with me, they need to me silenced!" attitude. He spends a lot of his time railing against his fellow atheists for not being the right kind of atheist, or not being atheist enough.
 
2012-09-14 02:58:27 AM  
I guess I'm fortunate that I'm pretty much getting through life without having to come into contact with any rad feminists or any of their secret code bullshiat. Single, make good money, bang plenty of chicks, and don't really care if some of them are stupid. Life's pretty good. Not sure if that is mansplaining or not and really can't give a fark.
 
2012-09-14 02:58:35 AM  
More SJW's inventing words to make sure they can be as accepting and understanding as possible to solve crisis that never really existed while the rest of the world moves on with their lives.
 
2012-09-14 02:59:32 AM  

Gunther: He spends a lot of his time railing against his fellow atheists for not being the right kind of atheist, or not being atheist enough.


Exactly. Some of what he has written has been insightful, but he's vindictive and childish when he doesn't get his way or someone disagrees with him. He's not the kind of person who should be fronting anything If Atheism Plus is as ZipSplat described it, it just stinks of his brand of divisiveness and is exactly the kind of thing I can imagine him doing.
 
2012-09-14 03:02:52 AM  
There is a small part of me that wonders whether the Jezebel type of women understand that the Taliban is what a "Patricarchy" looks like.

"You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means".
 
2012-09-14 03:03:19 AM  

FishyFred:
Well-meaning people hoped that the problem would go away once the community reached a critical mass of equal representation, but once we got close and women like Rebecca Watson and Jen McCreight started bringing up women's issues -- everyone's issues, really, but clearly issues that hurt women more directly than they hurt men -- they were subjected to the most vile, ridiculous attacks by people who should know better.


I dunno, the few times I've seen any issues due to my limited experience in that particular fandom, the issues only blow up because said bloggers write about, "Look at these typical youtube commenters" or "look at these assholes being assholes" or "look at these socially inept weirdos who inevitably appear at these sorts of events despite everyone's best efforts" and then present them as representative of all men everywhere simply because they share a similar gonad configuration. And every single time, they start mansplaining how it's my responsibility to correct their behavior and if I don't, then I'm just as bad.

I'm sorry, but up yours, lady. I don't know these guys, I don't associate with these guys, and I sure as HELL am not condoning their behavior just because I, too, have a penis. They act like freaks at me, too.
 
2012-09-14 03:10:26 AM  

doloresonthedottedline: I always thought of nice guys as the brooding types who go around wailing "BUT IM SO NICE WHY DON'T GIRLS LIKE ME" while thinking that relationships are like customer rewards programs--after a certain amount of niceness, they can cash it in for sex and/or a relationship.


I always thought of those guys as just being a-holes.


doloresonthedottedline: Or the types who only ever befriend girls who are clearly not interested but think if they're just good enough they'll earn the girl's affection, and then post on their LiveJournals about how all women are biatches when the girl dates some "jerk."


I can see how this might happen with a guy who genuinely is nice, but meek and/or shy. Since they refrain from putting themselves out there far enough to be rejected in some final way, and since guys very often simply cannot tell when a girl is "clearly not interested", they do the only thing they know how to do: try to get someone to like them by being kind, respectful, accommodating, and generally inoffensive. On the face of it it doesn't really seem like that unreasonable a thing to do, to get someone to like you by being a nice person, but they don't understand that by itself it doesn't make them interesting. And guys who do this certainly don't always end up getting mad and posting on LiveJournal. When they do, though, I imagine it is just a manifestation of their frustration at being unable to appeal to women, not dissimilar to the countless times I've heard women complain about all men being jerks.
 
2012-09-14 03:11:36 AM  

zzrhardy: There is a small part of me that wonders whether the Jezebel type of women understand that the Taliban is what a "Patricarchy" looks like.

"You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means".


You've fallen victim to the fallacy of the excluded middle -- in this case the concept that anything that is not the worst possible patriarchy imaginable (the Taliban or similar societies) is not patriarchy at all. There are degrees of patriarchy just as there are of any other political or social -archy.

The developed world generally is a damn sight better to live in as a woman than Taliban-controlled areas, but if you think women have total equality in say, the US, you're not looking around much.
 
2012-09-14 03:21:58 AM  

zzrhardy: There is a small part of me that wonders whether the Jezebel type of women understand that the Taliban is what a "Patricarchy" looks like.

"You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means".


Wouldn't a "Patrickarchy" be a society ruled by the likes of Captain Picard, Bobby Ewing, and David Puddy?
 
2012-09-14 03:27:25 AM  

Gawdzila: doloresonthedottedline: I always thought of nice guys as the brooding types who go around wailing "BUT IM SO NICE WHY DON'T GIRLS LIKE ME" while thinking that relationships are like customer rewards programs--after a certain amount of niceness, they can cash it in for sex and/or a relationship.

I always thought of those guys as just being a-holes.


doloresonthedottedline: Or the types who only ever befriend girls who are clearly not interested but think if they're just good enough they'll earn the girl's affection, and then post on their LiveJournals about how all women are biatches when the girl dates some "jerk."

I can see how this might happen with a guy who genuinely is nice, but meek and/or shy. Since they refrain from putting themselves out there far enough to be rejected in some final way, and since guys very often simply cannot tell when a girl is "clearly not interested", they do the only thing they know how to do: try to get someone to like them by being kind, respectful, accommodating, and generally inoffensive. On the face of it it doesn't really seem like that unreasonable a thing to do, to get someone to like you by being a nice person, but they don't understand that by itself it doesn't make them interesting. And guys who do this certainly don't always end up getting mad and posting on LiveJournal. When they do, though, I imagine it is just a manifestation of their frustration at being unable to appeal to women, not dissimilar to the countless times I've heard women complain about all men being jerks.


Asshole is accurate too, but they always insist that they're nice guys, hence the term. Wish I had an example handy--I know this guy who tried to explain to me how he worships women and how they're goddesses, but every girl he tries to date is awful and his luck is just so terrible, because he's so nice! The conversation had some real gems, genuinely oblivious that he was a total douchebag with ridiculous expectations.

And, I was talking specifically (in the second example) about the guys who do that and then rage at the women. Women who think investing time as a friend is an excellent way to change a guy's mind, who then blame the guy for not changing, are equally absurd and worthy of ridicule. Being meek and oblivious isn't bad, but deciding to gain some nerve just long enough to blame other people for your failures is.
 
2012-09-14 03:43:48 AM  

MeanJean: I prefer the general term downsplaining, as it can be applied to multiple cases.


Not to splainsplain, but I think you mean "condescension".
 
2012-09-14 03:49:11 AM  

Kensey: You've fallen victim to the fallacy of the excluded middle


0/10 for trying to railroad someone into a "fallacy."

In order to be an excluded middle fallacy, he or she would have had to identify both sides of an either/or proposition and imply that something can only be one or the other, which he or she didn't expressly do. He or she could simply understand patriarchy to mean something different than you do, among many other things.
 
2012-09-14 03:51:57 AM  
Nope. They had to gender the term. Because that is the correct way to go about doing this. No woman ever condescends to anyone under any circumstances. This is a gendered, male phenomina. Thus the gendered term.

/sarcasm

Really thoughy, can't we just talk about treating peopl like they are actual people? Not archetypes in which an action can be extrapolated to all members of class y or x. This is really starting to bother me. Why is it hard to act as though a peron is a person, not a contruct of social stigmas....

/came to this thread way too late
//wanted to say it anyway
///Slashy trifecta in play
 
2012-09-14 04:01:18 AM  
If men actually followed any of this lesbian fem-speak, we'd be friend-zoned in a microsecond.
 
2012-09-14 04:01:29 AM  

telaran: Kensey: You've fallen victim to the fallacy of the excluded middle

0/10 for trying to railroad someone into a "fallacy."

In order to be an excluded middle fallacy, he or she would have had to identify both sides of an either/or proposition and imply that something can only be one or the other, which he or she didn't expressly do. He or she could simply understand patriarchy to mean something different than you do, among many other things.


The simple fact that there can BE (or at least that there ARE) different meanings is the exact reason why the vast majority of Americans don't give a single thought through their day about social justice. Even the discussion of patriarchy has become some sort of privileged position.
 
2012-09-14 04:04:58 AM  
Lemme mansplain this for you guys. It's super easy.

You listen to the woman first, let her ramble on about whatever. THEN you prove her wrong, point by point in exacting detail. Make sure you cite your references, 'cause you obviously know more about the subject than her, so you should have those memorized by author and title, if not by date. In the extremely hypothetical situation where she's right, you STFU. Fortunately, as we all know, that's never going to happen.

Then, having proven your superior knowledge and innate quality as a breeder, go home and cry into a bottle since you're alone. Again.
 
2012-09-14 04:06:41 AM  

doloresonthedottedline: Being meek and oblivious isn't bad, but deciding to gain some nerve just long enough to blame other people for your failures is.


I dunno if I'd call ranting on LiveJournal "nerve", lol. It's just about the least confrontational method of venting that I can think of.
I agree it's stupid, I'm just saying that I can understand the frustration. In actuality they're probably equally upset with themselves on the inside, but no one wants to blame themselves. It's more pitiable than anything else, honestly.
 
2012-09-14 04:17:11 AM  

FishyFred: RoyBatty: There is plenty of femsplaining, basically it's called tumblr, and Jezebel, and xx factor, and free thought blogs, and pretty much any place that wants to police speech, and demand recognition of the oppression of women without actually discussing alternative points of view.

I can kind of understand why someone might come to this conclusion if they started with a prejudice against feminists already. But it's just wrong. They're not refusing to entertain alternative points of view. THEY HAVE ALREADY DISCUSSED ALTERNATIVE POINTS OF VIEW. That's what this whole mansplaining thing is about. If you treat them like idiots who don't fully understand issues, you might not be an irredeemable misogynist, but you are starting from a point of "I know more than these people."

And on a lot of the subjects they talk about, you usually don't know shiat.


You need to read this, basically one feminist explains the power and abuse and bogus and sexist assumptions behind the word.

XOJane: Why you'll never hear me use the term mansplain - by Lesley
 
2012-09-14 04:19:06 AM  
Women date assholes because feminism has taken away gender roles and only hypermasculinity can trigger their submission love hormones. It really is that simple. It is amazing to me how feminists twist things to make women not how they are. We give these idiots POWER and it WILL come back to haunt all men and women.
 
2012-09-14 04:20:17 AM  
Women date assholes because feminism has taken away gender roles and only hypermasculinity can trigger their -->submissive
 
2012-09-14 04:21:18 AM  
Something a bit less light-hearted than my other post, nobody addressed this, as I read up the thread. As Schyzer, scum though he may be, noted in TFA, "mansplaining" is something men do to other men.

If men do NOT do it to women (treat a woman in the conversational sphere as they would another man), are they being sexist?
 
2012-09-14 04:32:26 AM  

starsrift: If men do NOT do it to women (treat a woman in the conversational sphere as they would another man), are they being sexist?


They're sexist whether they do or don't thanks to the unfortunate tendency for people to think that the only important part of a statement is what a listener perceives. If a man does it to a woman, he's insulting her knowledge and ability because she's a woman, and therefore, he's sexist. If he doesn't do it to women, then he's treating her differently than he does other men, which means he doesn't respect her or regard her as highly because she's a woman, and therefore, he's sexist.

It just depends on who you're talking to.
 
2012-09-14 04:38:38 AM  

FishyFred: They're not refusing to entertain alternative points of view. THEY HAVE ALREADY DISCUSSED ALTERNATIVE POINTS OF VIEW.


So their assumption is that they've already accounted for everything that might possibly be relevant, and therefore they are justified in discounting any dissenting opinion? Even from the men whose thoughts and motivations they claim to know better than the men themselves? I feel like that's at least as arrogant as simply thinking that they might not have taken every other possible point of view into account.
 
2012-09-14 04:41:52 AM  

Kensey: You've fallen victim to the fallacy of the excluded middle --


The middle is true equality.

Patriarchy ---------- equality ----------- Matriarchy

Feminism doesn't aim for "I am a women, I can do anything", it aims for "I am a women I should be able to do everything You figure where that sits on the spectrum.
 
2012-09-14 04:46:38 AM  

Gawdzila: FishyFred: They're not refusing to entertain alternative points of view. THEY HAVE ALREADY DISCUSSED ALTERNATIVE POINTS OF VIEW.

So their assumption is that they've already accounted for everything that might possibly be relevant, and therefore they are justified in discounting any dissenting opinion? Even from the men whose thoughts and motivations they claim to know better than the men themselves? I feel like that's at least as arrogant as simply thinking that they might not have taken every other possible point of view into account.


It is theoretically possible that there are men out there with a bit of wisdom that would radically change feminists forever. But I believe the point FishyFred was trying to make is that after having approximately one billion conversations with men claiming to have a bit of wisdom that will radically change feminists forever, and finding that they nearly all say the exact same shiat that is absolutely not as advertised, people start to draw a line.

It's a matter of time management and sanity, really.
 
2012-09-14 04:51:28 AM  

Gawdzila: So their assumption is that they've already accounted for everything that might possibly be relevant, and therefore they are justified in discounting any dissenting opinion? Even from the men whose thoughts and motivations they claim to know better than the men themselves?


Not to mention that it's an odd claim to be making, since he's talking about some Women's Studies classes at a university. You'd think that, being classes, people in them wouldn't already have discussed all the alternative points of view. And, given that Women's Studies is a relatively new soft science (or, in some cases, a humanities subject), and even the old soft sciences with long standing publication don't make claims like that, the oddness is reinforced.
 
2012-09-14 04:58:44 AM  

doloresonthedottedline: It's a matter of time management and sanity, really.


Fair enough.
 
2012-09-14 05:01:33 AM  

doloresonthedottedline: It's a matter of time management and sanity, really.


And, of course, there's that. Regardless of what one thinks of the classes, they're there to teach the material in them, not entertain the guy who keeps derailing the course of the lectures.
 
2012-09-14 05:32:01 AM  

zzrhardy: Feminism doesn't aim for "I am a women, I can do anything", it aims for "I am a women I should be able to do everything You figure where that sits on the spectrum.


And Islam is a allegedly a "religion of peace", and yet here we are.
 
2012-09-14 05:32:37 AM  
What is it called when you are talking to a woman and she is making incorrect statements and when you mention the obvious errors she has made she tries to get you to shut up by saying the way you are talking to her is `mansplaining` and refuses to carry on a conversation she knows will lead to her having to admit she does not actually know what she is talking about?

femdodging?
 
2012-09-14 05:47:16 AM  

telaran: doloresonthedottedline: It's a matter of time management and sanity, really.

And, of course, there's that. Regardless of what one thinks of the classes, they're there to teach the material in them, not entertain the guy who keeps derailing the course of the lectures.


If a Professor shuts down a student with a term like "mansplaining" instead of asking the student to hold his questions for now and see the professor after class, then the professor, IMNSHO, is a terrible teacher and I would think has made the classroom "a hostile environment."

Pretty much the same thing if the professor allows other students to get away with that activity.

Long before feminism came along, professors had to deal with students that were either derailing or just taking too much time -- they haven't had to abuse their students until now.

The article is not about this taking place in a classroom, it's about it taking place elsewhere in culture, and my experience there is that it's not used by experts that are worried about time management, but it's used by people that have made some claim and then wish to preclude debate on that claim.

P
Q
P implies Q deus ex feminista
 
2012-09-14 06:19:35 AM  
 
2012-09-14 06:35:11 AM  

Quinsisdos: If you really want to see social justice idiocy, Tumblr has it in spades


i.imgur.com

Ah, too bad this one wasn't the first in this thread.
 
2012-09-14 06:41:23 AM  
Now I remember why I'm a misogynist.
 
2012-09-14 06:51:07 AM  

Quinsisdos: If you really want to see social justice idiocy, Tumblr has it in spades


Also linked from that tumblr, and goes along with why the term mansplaining is so pernicious:

i.imgur.com 
Link
 
2012-09-14 06:57:19 AM  

Quinsisdos: If you really want to see social justice idiocy, Tumblr has it in spades


Thank you, I do like that tumblr.

Here is another one. This is why "intersectionality" and "kyriarchy" were invented by feminists, precisely so they could play Oppression Olympics and answer the question of how feminists are still the most oppressed people on the planet thanks to men.

i.imgur.com Link
 
2012-09-14 07:01:58 AM  
Maybe that's just her excuse for being incompetent.
 
2012-09-14 07:48:02 AM  

quickdraw: doglover: Patronizing. The term is patronizing.

1. It's easier to say.
2. It's a real thing.

Its not the same. "Patronizing" has other connotations that make it sound more positive. I patronize the grocery store on a regular basis and they like it.


Patronizing has other denotations. As does nearly every other word in the English language. Life would be pretty rough if you had no ability to recognize the correct denotation of words given their context.
 
2012-09-14 07:51:26 AM  
This one is my favorite - http://farkyeahsocialjusticesally.tumblr.com/
 
2012-09-14 08:06:40 AM  
Mugato
Is there a trendy term that means "stupid biatch making up words for their deeply insightful blog"?


How about "Jeze-belching"?
 
2012-09-14 08:14:30 AM  
Can a woman be patronising or is she matronising?

I honestly would like to know.
 
2012-09-14 08:55:42 AM  
FTA: For men like this student, "mansplaining" has become the new sexual harassment allegation - an unfair charge that no man can disprove, defined by shifting and opaque rules.

FTA: As Solnit put it in a follow-up piece last month, mansplaining is the "intersection between overconfidence and cluelessness where some portion of (the male) gender gets stuck."

Well gee, if it didn't read quite so much as a sweeping generalization about men based purely on their gender, I imagine it would feel like a completely reasonable concept... that and I could better appreciate the value of a good portmanteau.

FTA: Their misunderstanding of what sexual harassment entails led some to fear that even their most well-intentioned gestures or remarks would be misconstrued as harassment.

Or it could be because it fairly often does get misconstrued, maybe? Mistakes happen you know, particularly with fairly new concepts that are being defined and redefined constantly. It's okay to admit this.

FTA: Mansplaining is about a very specific instance of "privilege and ignorance... when a dude tells you, a woman, how to do something you already know how to do, or how you are wrong about something you are actually right about, or miscellaneous and inaccurate 'facts' about something you know a hell of a lot more about than he does."

This sounds a lot like 'arrogance' and 'appeal to authority to me'- neither of which are new concepts, and are far easier to understand when you don't try to redefine them under some vague (yet strangely trendy buzzword) that will invariably get defined however people using it want to define it. This would include (yes) unqualified accusations that are, by the vagaries of their nature, inarguable.

Civil debate is rarely helped by moving goalposts. This whole 'mansplaining' thing seems like one excellent way to do that- intentionally or otherwise- by obscuring possibly valid observations about the nature of the debate behind some gender-biased Newspeak that's only guaranteed to shift the focus of debate further away from the civil and into ad hominem.

i.e.: "You're ignoring the points I'm making because you're a man," rather than "you're refusing to see that I have a point because of a false belief in your inherent superiority."

So, good job... I guess?
 
2012-09-14 09:01:14 AM  
FTA:In nearly 20 years of teaching gender studies courses,

farm4.staticflickr.com
 
2012-09-14 09:02:34 AM  
What I wouldn't give for this to be bro-splain and ho-splain...
 
2012-09-14 09:21:23 AM  

RoyBatty: FishyFred: RoyBatty: There is plenty of femsplaining, basically it's called tumblr, and Jezebel, and xx factor, and free thought blogs, and pretty much any place that wants to police speech, and demand recognition of the oppression of women without actually discussing alternative points of view.

I can kind of understand why someone might come to this conclusion if they started with a prejudice against feminists already. But it's just wrong. They're not refusing to entertain alternative points of view. THEY HAVE ALREADY DISCUSSED ALTERNATIVE POINTS OF VIEW. That's what this whole mansplaining thing is about. If you treat them like idiots who don't fully understand issues, you might not be an irredeemable misogynist, but you are starting from a point of "I know more than these people."

And on a lot of the subjects they talk about, you usually don't know shiat.

You need to read this, basically one feminist explains the power and abuse and bogus and sexist assumptions behind the word.

XOJane: Why you'll never hear me use the term mansplain - by Lesley


I wasn't defending the term, but you and ZipSplat seem to be dismissing the idea that men often talk above their heads on shiat they know nothing about and that they do this because the others involved are women. And you're wrong. It happens all the time.
 
2012-09-14 09:22:55 AM  

squidgod2000: What I wouldn't give for this to be bro-splain and ho-splain...


50.19.100.254
 
2012-09-14 10:14:21 AM  

rat_creature: mesmer242: Oh man, I totally know some elderly people who do this, but it's less about gender and more about them being old and be terrified that if they don't pass down the crucial information on how to best shop for a used car that the knowledge will be erased from the earth when they die. I'd like a clever word for that phenomenon, but sadly, it's just not as hip as mansplaining is.

Senexplaining?


That sounds... dirty.

WordyGrrl:
It is the duty of somebody who's endured the consequences of a bad decision to warn others. For example, ask some "old people" who have made the mistake of not only sticking it in crazy, but marrying it afterwards. The Fark Ex-Husbands Brigade has some interesting stories on that.


No, no, this is like trivial "wisdom", sort of akin to the onion on the belt, but overly detailed instructions on stuff like how to use a central vacuum system or bargain shop for cuts of meat or make punch. There's nothing wrong the topics, other than the fact that most of them would take five minutes to google, but mostly the elderly person is giving a long soliloquy in a voice that makes you feel like an eight year old. It's best to just nod and smile, and chalk it up to one of those things you'll end up missing about them after they die.

doloresonthedottedline:
Cloudsplaining.


Yup, that's exactly it!
 
2012-09-14 10:25:22 AM  
Subby-There's no need for the term 'womansplain'. That's already covered by 'complain' and its many synonyms.
 
2012-09-14 10:32:16 AM  

doloresonthedottedline: Mr. Carpenter: doloresonthedottedline: ZipSplat: This annoying bullshiat has been popping up in the atheist/skeptical community lately as well. Apparently "feminism" and "social justice" mean "scapegoating white 'cisgendered' males for one's personal inadequacies and creating gender-specific terms (like 'mansplaining') for generic human traits".

It's f*cking dumb and counterproductive. Reading the nascent Atheism Plus forums is an awful experience.

You sound male.

You sound desperate for attention

Incredibly antisocial, actually. In case the completely bare profile didn't make that clear.

Socialist, radical feminist, atheist, probably a few more hated ists--and I've had people try and tell me all the ways I'm wrong (and have had full, in-depth discussions defending my positions--with references, facts, and all that jazz) so many times I just sit back and enjoy the good trolls, block the bad ones, and enjoy the good jokes. Here and in real life.


So you are saying that you consider the possibility of any of your beliefs being mistaken to be zero?

What a limited way to experience life. 

/There is no learning without questioning not only the world around you
//but yourself as well.
 
2012-09-14 10:39:07 AM  

ZombiesYall: In every women's studies class I ever took, there was an obnoxious right-wing conservative man who signed up for the class supposedly to "provide an alternate viewpoint" or to "play devil's advocate." Maybe they thought they would see topless lesbians making out, I don't know. The thing is, a lot of the world outside those classrooms already was that guy's viewpoint, and damn if we hadn't already heard it, so why he needed to deliver it to us as an "alternative" was beyond me.


It's annoying, isn't it? When someone comes into your group from the outside with an inherently hostile attitude, and whose only interest is in disrupting the proceedings.

Now you know how everyone else feels when you do it.
 
2012-09-14 10:41:38 AM  

Kensey: The developed world generally is a damn sight better to live in as a woman than Taliban-controlled areas, but if you think women have total equality in say, the US, you're not looking around much.


How are you defining "total"? What would "total equality" be?
 
2012-09-14 10:55:44 AM  
Nobody splits a needless academic hair like Jezebel.
 
2012-09-14 11:20:21 AM  

Mechdemon: doloresonthedottedline: Mr. Carpenter: doloresonthedottedline: ZipSplat: This annoying bullshiat has been popping up in the atheist/skeptical community lately as well. Apparently "feminism" and "social justice" mean "scapegoating white 'cisgendered' males for one's personal inadequacies and creating gender-specific terms (like 'mansplaining') for generic human traits".

It's f*cking dumb and counterproductive. Reading the nascent Atheism Plus forums is an awful experience.

You sound male.

You sound desperate for attention

Incredibly antisocial, actually. In case the completely bare profile didn't make that clear.

Socialist, radical feminist, atheist, probably a few more hated ists--and I've had people try and tell me all the ways I'm wrong (and have had full, in-depth discussions defending my positions--with references, facts, and all that jazz) so many times I just sit back and enjoy the good trolls, block the bad ones, and enjoy the good jokes. Here and in real life.

So you are saying that you consider the possibility of any of your beliefs being mistaken to be zero?

What a limited way to experience life. 

/There is no learning without questioning not only the world around you
//but yourself as well.


I not only consider but *assume* I'm wrong on just about everything at just about all times. The thing is, I don't humor assholes on the Internet as a way to test whether I'm wrong because I'm not a moron. I DO sit up and pay attention when I see a well presented opinion in any setting, and I then compare it to the facts I can find. Most of the opinions I find presented in a decent way that I ultimately judge to be not-quite-true come from someone who has demonstrated trouble grasping the nuance of situations or who just doesn't have first hand experience or in-depth research on what they're talking about.

And like I said earlier, some people don't have the farkin time to humor every asshole in the world they meet who JUST KNOWS he knows their opinions better than they do and is bursting at the seams to tell them how much more right he is.
 
2012-09-14 11:25:26 AM  
We don't actually need a new term for this. We already have one. It's called "being an asshole."

And it's a common behavior among both men and women.
 
2012-09-14 11:26:31 AM  
for anybody who thinks sexism wasn't floating around in the atheism and related geek communities for years - Isaac Asimov was infamous for grabbing women's crotches at book signings. Never got flak that I'm aware of, although one woman did grab him back.
 
2012-09-14 11:35:35 AM  

Quinsisdos: If you really want to see social justice idiocy, Tumblr has it in spades


"Social justice" is neither social, nor just. Discuss.

media.tumblr.com

/I'm all verklempt.
 
2012-09-14 11:37:11 AM  
i.imgur.com
 
2012-09-14 11:37:39 AM  
Oooooh, another Jezebel article! More misandryistic red meat for me to poop on, please!

So knowledge in men trumps being cocksure? I guess this explains why engineers and code crunchers get so much pussy.
 
2012-09-14 11:39:20 AM  

Smelly Pirate Hooker: We don't actually need a new term for this. We already have one. It's called "being an asshole."

And it's a common behavior among both men and women.


Pretty much what I'm saying. If you're trying to suggest this is somehow a legitimate concept that should be embraced and taken seriously, well, the first three letters would like to have a talk with you.

No matter how you try to apologize for it, or explain it away, you've just become guilty of exactly the same thing as the person you're accusing is- just by using it. I don't see the functional difference between:

"You're too dumb to understand cars, because that's something women can't do. You're a woman and not a man, therefore your understanding of cars is, at best, laughable"

...and...

"You're too gender bigoted against me because you are a man to make that determination. You are a man and not a woman, ergo you are mansplaining."

But hey, silly me, I was thinking we already had plenty of excellent words for this, like "patronizing", "arrogance", and "condescending"- you know, words that don't make the adjective gender-biased in the first three letters.
 
2012-09-14 11:47:14 AM  

FishyFred: RoyBatty: FishyFred: RoyBatty: There is plenty of femsplaining, basically it's called tumblr, and Jezebel, and xx factor, and free thought blogs, and pretty much any place that wants to police speech, and demand recognition of the oppression of women without actually discussing alternative points of view.

I can kind of understand why someone might come to this conclusion if they started with a prejudice against feminists already. But it's just wrong. They're not refusing to entertain alternative points of view. THEY HAVE ALREADY DISCUSSED ALTERNATIVE POINTS OF VIEW. That's what this whole mansplaining thing is about. If you treat them like idiots who don't fully understand issues, you might not be an irredeemable misogynist, but you are starting from a point of "I know more than these people."

And on a lot of the subjects they talk about, you usually don't know shiat.

You need to read this, basically one feminist explains the power and abuse and bogus and sexist assumptions behind the word.

XOJane: Why you'll never hear me use the term mansplain - by Lesley

I wasn't defending the term, but you and ZipSplat seem to be dismissing the idea that men often talk above their heads on shiat they know nothing about and that they do this because the others involved are women. And you're wrong. It happens all the time.


Yes, it does.
 
2012-09-14 11:47:28 AM  

onyxruby: Guy who wrote this article is a professional troll that write a series of Jezebel about how horrible men are. Look at some of this guy's other work and you'll see some really whacked out stuff.

/Don't feed the trolls.


"Guy" named 'Hugo Schwyzer'?

Even Rush Limbaugh has the stones to own his own shiat. So many "empowered" feminists are both bullies and cowards.
 
2012-09-14 11:55:15 AM  

Thanks for the Meme-ries: [i291.photobucket.com image 415x261]


"I want you to go find a farking SOUL!!!!"

Link

(from 1:44)
 
2012-09-14 12:00:51 PM  

Egalitarian: oh look, misogynist Farkers insulted by a feminist joke. Boo hoo, did somebody hurt your fragile male egos?

"mansplaining" means "a man being condescending to a woman because he's a man and she's a woman." And furthermore if she thinks what he's saying is nonsensical or patently unfair, in addition to being condescending, that is more proof that he needs to "mansplain" to her silly women brainz until she accepts his superiority without question.

It's an in-joke on feminist blogs, get over it.

It does happen in real life though, This summer I had the misfortune to accidentally overhear a couple of guys mansplaining to a housewife about how the Democrats wanted to take everybody's guns because of the Batman shooting. They talked down to her like she was a 10 year old kid.


Your moniker is a lie.

"Me 'n Skeeter played a joke on sum cullud boys by callin' 'em cullud boys, en they was real mad. Them nigras cain't take a joke laik a white man."
 
2012-09-14 12:04:30 PM  

doloresonthedottedline: thomps: Spoon over Marin: feminism thread?

this being fark, i'm going to go with misogyny thread.

Yeah. Saw the thread, tried to run away quickly but couldn't resist skimming.

Maybe not quite as bad as I expected but bad enough that I need to leave for the sake of my blood pressure. Definitely a misogyny fest.

/most Fark threads about anything relating to women are full of great "mansplaining" examples


Disagreement = misogyny. I think that that was the gist of the article.
 
2012-09-14 12:12:09 PM  

RoyBatty: Hugo Schwyzer is a feminist professor that attempted to kill his girlfriend in a murder suicide

[i.imgur.com image 504x478]

Hugo Schwyzer is a feminist professor that slept with four students on a bus tour THAT HE WAS THE DELEGATED CHAPERONE OF.
[i.imgur.com image 632x274]

He actually has a much longer history of sleeping with his students than just that bus trip.

[i.imgur.com image 624x630]


Hugo Schwyzer is a feminist professor that likely had a child with another woman, has tried to keep the woman's husband in the dark for years about this, while the woman's husband supports the child, and then Hugo defends keeping fathers in the dark about their kids.

[i.imgur.com image 581x540]
Link

If anyone wants to dig into that, it becomes clear that for years Hugo has been involved in the continuing deception of Ted so that Hugo could live his life free of child support, parenting duties, and able to sleep with his students.

Hugo Schwyzer is a feminist professor whose job is 100% mansplaining to female students about their oppression

[i.imgur.com image 532x595]

So yeah, mansplaining, Hugo Schwyzer is an expert at this.


upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-09-14 12:14:10 PM  

doloresonthedottedline: I need to leave for the sake of my blood pressure.


You sound fat.
 
2012-09-14 12:21:54 PM  

Donn C. Drummond in Disguise: Lsherm: Ignored "Lsherm". If you want to completely hide ignored user comments, change the "Show header of ignored comments" option in your user profile.

Your sarcasm/humor meter has reached the end of its useful life. Most folks are upgrading to digital models now.
/You might find some kindred spirits at the Primitive (Predestinarian) Baptist Church down the road. They have all the even-handed, cheerful, tolerant
qualities you do.
//Now get out there and make the world a place of sunshine, lollipops and rain bows (You're well on your way!)


I hit just a little too close to the truth, didn't I?

You aren't worth an opinion, so it's not a loss on my end.
 
2012-09-14 12:22:03 PM  
woman explaining to man something he already knows = biatching

man explaining to woman something she already knows = mansplaining


hooray, matching obnoxious terms! equal opportunity fulfilled - we're done here.
 
2012-09-14 12:25:16 PM  

ZombiesYall: The only time the term occurs to me is if a man tells me how I should feel about a feminist issue. Stupid example (but one that shouldn't cause an argument): I hate the movie Death Proof, but several male friends tell me I'm wrong for not liking it, because "it's a feminist movie." To me, mansplaining is the equivalent of me, a white person, telling a non-white person how to feel about racism in America. The article is offensive, however, in a trolltastic way, and makes Jezebel look like a typical vapid ladymag except biatchier.


So, one group of people's opinions aren't valid because of their gender and that other group's opinions aren't valid because of their race. So you're sexist and racist. Awesome.
 
2012-09-14 12:27:14 PM  
I can't top the submitter's use of "womansplain" to expose the hypocrisy of the article.

For me, the word "mansplain" only ever made sense in that photograph of the all-male sub-committee panel that said "Let us mansplain about ur ladyparts", during one of the recent campaigns against Planned Parenthood and birth control in general.
 
2012-09-14 12:30:09 PM  
(the picture I cited above was posted by WhyteRaven74 earlier in the thread.)
 
2012-09-14 12:37:45 PM  
The author of the article has some whoresplaining to do.
 
2012-09-14 12:40:13 PM  

Donn C. Drummond in Disguise: Egalitarian: oh look, misogynist Farkers insulted by a feminist joke. Boo hoo, did somebody hurt your fragile male egos?

"mansplaining" means "a man being condescending to a woman because he's a man and she's a woman." And furthermore if she thinks what he's saying is nonsensical or patently unfair, in addition to being condescending, that is more proof that he needs to "mansplain" to her silly women brainz until she accepts his superiority without question.

It's an in-joke on feminist blogs, get over it.

It does happen in real life though, This summer I had the misfortune to accidentally overhear a couple of guys mansplaining to a housewife about how the Democrats wanted to take everybody's guns because of the Batman shooting. They talked down to her like she was a 10 year old kid.

/It would surely help if you wouldn't equate all FARKers born with that most insidious of birth defects, the Y chromosome, to the Aurora wingnuts, who generally find themselves on the defensive in these forums (It's a good thing they can't digitize bullets!)
//It would greatly help also if you Femmes could GET A SENSE OF HUMOR! (I know several men who aren't using theirs-check Craigslist.) Yeah, I know, Craig is a guy, but he's known for single-handedly demolishing the newspaper industry, thus paving the way for pixel-candy such as Jezebel.
///WAIT! Am I MANSPLAINING? (Do I get any credit for only procreating a daughter-whom I am teaching to challenge conventional wisdom in all its forms?)


"You're a very BAD MAN!!"

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-09-14 12:45:34 PM  

This text is now purple: ZombiesYall: In every women's studies class I ever took, there was an obnoxious right-wing conservative man who signed up for the class supposedly to "provide an alternate viewpoint" or to "play devil's advocate." Maybe they thought they would see topless lesbians making out, I don't know. The thing is, a lot of the world outside those classrooms already was that guy's viewpoint, and damn if we hadn't already heard it, so why he needed to deliver it to us as an "alternative" was beyond me.

It's annoying, isn't it? When someone comes into your group from the outside with an inherently hostile attitude, and whose only interest is in disrupting the proceedings.

Now you know how everyone else feels when you do it.


Actually, way back last night when I said that, the conversation in this thread had turned to men feeling unwelcome in feminist spaces online, and I was addressing that by saying that it wasn't all men which are unwelcome, only those who are needlessly provoking an argument, i.e. trolling. I don't think all men should be left out of feminist discussions. I'm not sure what proceedings I disrupted. Are you saying that the entire world is a space in which I as a woman am not part of the group and by having an opinion I'm disruptive, or does that merely apply to Fark threads?
 
2012-09-14 12:45:49 PM  

RoyBatty: doloresonthedottedline: In theory. But see, here's the thing. In real life I've never been outspoken about my beliefs in a way that was anything but earnestly trying to get people to understand that I'm not insulting them or threatening them (kept a lot of beliefs to myself to be safe). And I'm a ridiculously idealistic person who tries to help everyone get along and respect each other and help each other and see that we have common goals and everything is better when we work together. I can't shake this core belief that if people just understood each other well enough, there would be a little bit of very civil debate about a few things, but otherwise we'd all get along wonderfully and things would be productive, etc.

And you know what? That just doesn't work. Ever. People are assholes and I've tried more times than I'd like to admit to bend over backwards and tie myself in knots to still find a way to get them to a point where they kind of almost respect each other or anything pleasant, and a lot of people just don't have that mode.

So I'm an extremely sweet and helpful person to everyone (in a non-Fark setting) and only try to get to know the people who already get why words like "mansplain" exist. It works well for me.

I don't know how much of a feminist you are, or how often you visit feminist blogs, but I ask you to stand back a foot or two, reread what you wrote and then read some of these, and then perhaps have a chuckle at the human condition.

Geekfeminism: Nice Guy Syndrome

Heartless biatches: Nice Guys = Bleah

Heartless biatches: Nice Guys = Bleah : Why "Nice Guys" are often such LOSERS

Anyway, you sound nice, you really do.


www.oldmovies.net.au

Approves.
 
2012-09-14 12:50:57 PM  

CtrlAltDestroy: ZombiesYall: The only time the term occurs to me is if a man tells me how I should feel about a feminist issue. Stupid example (but one that shouldn't cause an argument): I hate the movie Death Proof, but several male friends tell me I'm wrong for not liking it, because "it's a feminist movie." To me, mansplaining is the equivalent of me, a white person, telling a non-white person how to feel about racism in America. The article is offensive, however, in a trolltastic way, and makes Jezebel look like a typical vapid ladymag except biatchier.

So, one group of people's opinions aren't valid because of their gender and that other group's opinions aren't valid because of their race. So you're sexist and racist. Awesome.


I think that the opinion of a person who doesn't experience a specific prejudice can be valid in terms of what should be done about the societal problem, but someone telling me how to feel about experiencing something they have not experienced is not. I have no idea what it is like to be discriminated against for my race, so I can't tell black people how they should react when it happens to them. But go on pretending you don't know what I meant, if you like.
 
2012-09-14 12:51:26 PM  

Egalitarian: oh look, misogynist Farkers insulted by a feminist joke. Boo hoo, did somebody hurt your fragile male egos?

"mansplaining" means "a man being condescending to a woman because he's a man and she's a woman." And furthermore if she thinks what he's saying is nonsensical or patently unfair, in addition to being condescending, that is more proof that he needs to "mansplain" to her silly women brainz until she accepts his superiority without question.

It's an in-joke on feminist blogs, get over it.

It does happen in real life though, This summer I had the misfortune to accidentally overhear a couple of guys mansplaining to a housewife about how the Democrats wanted to take everybody's guns because of the Batman shooting. They talked down to her like she was a 10 year old kid.


So, dude was being a dick? Can you see how generalizing that guy's behavior into "that's something men do" is condescending and bigoted toward the whole category "men"? Why can't you just call that guy a dick?
 
2012-09-14 12:53:20 PM  

BolshyGreatYarblocks: doloresonthedottedline: I need to leave for the sake of my blood pressure.

You sound fat.


Really? You went with the line about blood pressure instead of the rabid feminist part for the "you sound fat" line?
 
2012-09-14 12:55:01 PM  

ZombiesYall: CtrlAltDestroy: ZombiesYall: The only time the term occurs to me is if a man tells me how I should feel about a feminist issue. Stupid example (but one that shouldn't cause an argument): I hate the movie Death Proof, but several male friends tell me I'm wrong for not liking it, because "it's a feminist movie." To me, mansplaining is the equivalent of me, a white person, telling a non-white person how to feel about racism in America. The article is offensive, however, in a trolltastic way, and makes Jezebel look like a typical vapid ladymag except biatchier.

So, one group of people's opinions aren't valid because of their gender and that other group's opinions aren't valid because of their race. So you're sexist and racist. Awesome.

I think that the opinion of a person who doesn't experience a specific prejudice can be valid in terms of what should be done about the societal problem, but someone telling me how to feel about experiencing something they have not experienced is not. I have no idea what it is like to be discriminated against for my race, so I can't tell black people how they should react when it happens to them. But go on pretending you don't know what I meant, if you like.


You're still excluding people automatically and solely because of their gender and race. Thus, you are sexist and racist.
 
2012-09-14 12:56:21 PM  

RoyBatty: doloresonthedottedline: only context where he was sweet and not a douche (no pun intended)

Oh no! That would indeed be pretty terrible. :(


"But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother." -- guess where?
 
2012-09-14 12:58:38 PM  
Oops. Posted too quickly.

You're excluding and invalidating people based solely on their gender/race instead of the content of their character or extent of their abilities. It's sexism and racism, plain and simple.
 
2012-09-14 01:03:15 PM  

BolshyGreatYarblocks: RoyBatty: doloresonthedottedline: only context where he was sweet and not a douche (no pun intended)

Oh no! That would indeed be pretty terrible. :(

"But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother." -- guess where?


I'm not sure what 1984 has to do with being a sexual masochist and wanting a good time in bed as a bare minimum out of a very mismatched relationship (did care for the guy, it wasn't something shallow I was just going to bail out of without giving things a real shot).

I assumed RoyBatty was being at least partially sarcastic. Is sarcasm the same as Newspeak now? Did I miss something?
 
2012-09-14 01:03:43 PM  

dready zim: What is it called when you are talking to a woman and she is making incorrect statements and when you mention the obvious errors she has made she tries to get you to shut up by saying the way you are talking to her is `mansplaining` and refuses to carry on a conversation she knows will lead to her having to admit she does not actually know what she is talking about?

femdodging?


FemRyaning.
 
2012-09-14 01:11:25 PM  

RoyBatty: Hugo Schwyzer is a feminist professor that attempted to kill his girlfriend in a murder suicide


etc...

So, he's really playing the long con then, but got a little too caught up in the character.

I have to say, well played sir! Well played.

Like starting a camp for fat kids, and then eating the cookies you had them turned in.
Or an AA group, where you "hold on to" everyone else's booze "for THEM."

/wait... isn't that how banks work, too.
 
2012-09-14 01:21:17 PM  

das224: RoyBatty: Hugo Schwyzer is a feminist professor that attempted to kill his girlfriend in a murder suicide

etc...

So, he's really playing the long con then, but got a little too caught up in the character.

I have to say, well played sir! Well played.

Like starting a camp for fat kids, and then eating the cookies you had them turned in.
Or an AA group, where you "hold on to" everyone else's booze "for THEM."

/wait... isn't that how banks work, too.


I'm not an alcoholic, I'm just protecting the real alcoholics from relapsing.
 
2012-09-14 01:26:00 PM  
Who keeps submitting these jezebel links? The majority of their content is uber-feminist gender trolling. We all get it, men and women don't understand each other....let's move along folks
 
2012-09-14 01:45:04 PM  

AbbeySomeone: Men are frequently useful and docile creatures but sometimes lack basic recognition skills. The must be dealt with firmly and with a calm, encouraging voice. Simple details are the best.


You sound fat.
 
2012-09-14 02:08:30 PM  

CtrlAltDestroy: Oops. Posted too quickly.

You're excluding and invalidating people based solely on their gender/race instead of the content of their character or extent of their abilities. It's sexism and racism, plain and simple.


I simply said that "mansplaining" is a term I would only use if a man told me how to feel about something that had happened to me, a thing which had only happened because I am a woman. It's akin to my going to a cancer survivor's group and telling them I know how they feel, when I don't because I haven't had cancer. You are being rude (which is what the article is about) and deliberately obtuse. Have a nice day.
 
2012-09-14 02:12:22 PM  

FishyFred: RoyBatty: There is plenty of femsplaining, basically it's called tumblr, and Jezebel, and xx factor, and free thought blogs, and pretty much any place that wants to police speech, and demand recognition of the oppression of women without actually discussing alternative points of view.

I can kind of understand why someone might come to this conclusion if they started with a prejudice against feminists already. But it's just wrong. They're not refusing to entertain alternative points of view. THEY HAVE ALREADY DISCUSSED ALTERNATIVE POINTS OF VIEW. That's what this whole mansplaining thing is about. If you treat them like idiots who don't fully understand issues, you might not be an irredeemable misogynist, but you are starting from a point of "I know more than these people."

And on a lot of the subjects they talk about, you usually don't know shiat.


(googles isaac asimov crotch grab)

Citation needed, please.
 
2012-09-14 02:19:00 PM  
So I guess that this article is really ladybabble
 
2012-09-14 02:19:52 PM  

Egalitarian: for anybody who thinks sexism wasn't floating around in the atheism and related geek communities for years - Isaac Asimov was infamous for grabbing women's crotches at book signings. Never got flak that I'm aware of, although one woman did grab him back.


(hangs head in shame for quoting the wrong article)

Citation needed, please.

/think it was way funny as a non sequitur
 
2012-09-14 02:28:26 PM  

FishyFred: RoyBatty: FishyFred: RoyBatty: There is plenty of femsplaining, basically it's called tumblr, and Jezebel, and xx factor, and free thought blogs, and pretty much any place that wants to police speech, and demand recognition of the oppression of women without actually discussing alternative points of view.

I can kind of understand why someone might come to this conclusion if they started with a prejudice against feminists already. But it's just wrong. They're not refusing to entertain alternative points of view. THEY HAVE ALREADY DISCUSSED ALTERNATIVE POINTS OF VIEW. That's what this whole mansplaining thing is about. If you treat them like idiots who don't fully understand issues, you might not be an irredeemable misogynist, but you are starting from a point of "I know more than these people."

And on a lot of the subjects they talk about, you usually don't know shiat.

You need to read this, basically one feminist explains the power and abuse and bogus and sexist assumptions behind the word.

XOJane: Why you'll never hear me use the term mansplain - by Lesley

I wasn't defending the term, but you and ZipSplat seem to be dismissing the idea that men often talk above their heads on shiat they know nothing about and that they do this because the others involved are women. And you're wrong. It happens all the time.


Where do I say that doesn't happen?

What I do say:

1. Feminists aren't bothering to listen, they use the phrase to silence and bully

2. This is a behavior of SOME PEOPLE, not ALL MEN the XO piece describes it, from a feminist, as her "lecture mode".
 
2012-09-14 02:32:00 PM  

doloresonthedottedline: I assumed RoyBatty was being at least partially sarcastic. Is sarcasm the same as Newspeak now? Did I miss something?


I was being sincere. I don't know why bolshyyarblocks is referring to 1984.

IIRC, with all respect, you were saying you went out with this abuser because you wanted some abuser behavior in bed, but that's where he turned out to be sweet in bed, meaning you got the worse of both worlds, and abuser "boyfriend" who was sweet in bed and you wanted the exact opposite of that.

I was being sincere, "Oh no! That would indeed be pretty terrible. :(
 
2012-09-14 03:16:07 PM  

RoyBatty: doloresonthedottedline: I assumed RoyBatty was being at least partially sarcastic. Is sarcasm the same as Newspeak now? Did I miss something?

I was being sincere. I don't know why bolshyyarblocks is referring to 1984.

IIRC, with all respect, you were saying you went out with this abuser because you wanted some abuser behavior in bed, but that's where he turned out to be sweet in bed, meaning you got the worse of both worlds, and abuser "boyfriend" who was sweet in bed and you wanted the exact opposite of that.

I was being sincere, "Oh no! That would indeed be pretty terrible. :(


You get more and more interesting with each thread.

I am pretty terrible.
 
2012-09-14 04:22:29 PM  

das224: RoyBatty: Hugo Schwyzer is a feminist professor that attempted to kill his girlfriend in a murder suicide

etc...

So, he's really playing the long con then, but got a little too caught up in the character.

I have to say, well played sir! Well played.

Like starting a camp for fat kids, and then eating the cookies you had them turned in.
Or an AA group, where you "hold on to" everyone else's booze "for THEM."

/wait... isn't that how banks work, too.


Personally, seriously, and yes I am terribly biased and not a psychologist, I think Hugo Schwyzer is a sociopath, and his actions throughout his life involve tons of self-harming and real life harm to other people, men and women, mostly women in physical acts, mostly men in his Internet ranting.

I think Hugo Schwyzer at some level knows how terrible his behavior is, but instead of realizing it is his behavior to blame and taking responsibility for it, he rationalizes his shiatty behavior by blaming it on all men, projecting his own rotten misdeeds as common behavior that all men engage in.

I do find it ironic that a guy with a Ph.D in medieval history turns into one of the biggest white knights on the net always rescuing damsels in distress. And also that his "romantic" views of women and his actual incredibly shiatty behavior lead this guy to mansplaining feminism to female undergrads at a community college.

And that up until recently, smart, independent, self-aware, enlightened feminists just ate his shiat up.

But you could very well be right and it's just a long con, and if so, kudos to the guy, he clearly has gotten way more student ass than I ever did.
 
2012-09-14 06:16:41 PM  

ZombiesYall: I simply said that "mansplaining" is a term I would only use if a man told me how to feel about something that had happened to me, a thing which had only happened because I am a woman. It's akin to my going to a cancer survivor's group and telling them I know how they feel, when I don't because I haven't had cancer.


You said that men's opinions about a certain social issue is irrelevant because they are men and that white people's opinions about a certain social subject are irrelevant because they are white. There's no point in lying when anyone can go visit your previous posts.

You are being rude (which is what the article is about) and deliberately obtuse.

If pointing out your offensive and insulting behavior is "rude and obtuse" then I'd gladly wear it as a badge of honor.

Have a nice day.

Interesting. You attempt to passive aggressively have the last word, while standing atop a moral highground. It's fascinating to watch how quickly people degenerate into sarcastic and inane behavior once they are unable to properly defend their position. I thought about feeling bad for you, but then decided that it would be a wasted gesture.
 
2012-09-14 07:21:50 PM  
I love mansplooging.
 
2012-09-14 08:23:17 PM  

RoyBatty: If a Professor shuts down a student with a term like "mansplaining"...


Then he or she is a dick. Fortunately, that's not what I was suggesting.
 
2012-09-14 08:43:25 PM  

telaran: RoyBatty: If a Professor shuts down a student with a term like "mansplaining"...

Then he or she is a dick. Fortunately, that's not what I was suggesting.


I apologize, but it wasn't clear to me what you were suggesting. And Hugo was certainly not talking about classroom behaviors but about the word being used in common culture.
 
2012-09-14 09:03:10 PM  

RoyBatty: telaran: RoyBatty: If a Professor shuts down a student with a term like "mansplaining"...

Then he or she is a dick. Fortunately, that's not what I was suggesting.

I apologize, but it wasn't clear to me what you were suggesting. And Hugo was certainly not talking about classroom behaviors but about the word being used in common culture.


No problem, and I agree with you (on more than just this post). The series of comments I was responding to had deviated from the context of the article, and I was just noting that, if things are legitimately derailing from lecture/material too much, even in a contentious subject, it doesn't serve the purpose of the class. Note my post right above that one :)
 
2012-09-14 10:11:29 PM  
when I read the word "mansplain" all I get is "you have a penis so everything you do is wrong."

what am I missing?
 
2012-09-15 09:37:49 AM  
Lovelight: when I read the word "mansplain" all I get is "you have a penis so everything you do is wrong."

what am I missing?


Not a heck of a lot. It is a thought-terminating term that feminists use to shut-down men who have the temerity to voice disagreement.

Feminists have a lot of similar euphemisms for disagreement: "backlash", "not getting it", "silencing women" etc. This is because one of their firmest assumptions is that men are de facto wrong while women are de facto right.

If you watch their greasy, oily attempts at argumentation they act as if they're utterly terrified of a fair and honest debate.

I agree: feminists are right to be afraid. Their fear of an honest debate is warranted; you wouldn't believe the number of women who think they're utterly repellent.
 
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