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(Politico)   Benghazi consulate had no Marine protection - but c'mon, it's Libya. Who could have predicted things might go pear-shaped in a place like that?   (politico.com) divider line 307
    More: Followup, Benghazi, Libya, Ambassadors of the United States, protections, u.s. consulate, surveillance aircraft, Libyan rebels, Defense Secretary Robert Gates  
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5743 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Sep 2012 at 8:02 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-13 08:07:18 AM
I blame Obama repealing DADT.
 
2012-09-13 08:07:19 AM
We sent dignitaries THEN security personnel instead of the other way around?

We really are the overconfident assholes the rest of the countries accuse us of being.
 
2012-09-13 08:07:33 AM
Maybe Obama would have if he attended his intelligence reviews instead of requesting bear hugs from pizza shop owners for campaign fodder.
 
2012-09-13 08:10:23 AM

tereklusec: WeDemocrats sent dignitaries THEN security personnel instead of the other way around?

WeDemocrats really are the overconfident assholes the rest of the countries accuse us of being.


FTFY
 
2012-09-13 08:10:38 AM

1nsanilicious: Maybe Obama would have if he attended his intelligence reviews instead of requesting bear hugs from pizza shop owners for campaign fodder.


That told him.
 
2012-09-13 08:11:34 AM
This is proof that people shouldn't be carrying guns in America if I ever saw it.
 
2012-09-13 08:11:54 AM
Marines? All the way over there by Tripoli? Unlikely.
 
2012-09-13 08:13:15 AM
Well, the latest trend is outsourcing. The government can save taxpayers' money by paying employees of Blackwater/Xe/What-ever-those-criminals-currently-call-themselves many times more what an active duty member of the military would earn. It's all part of the important cost-cutting drive to run government more like a business.
 
2012-09-13 08:13:18 AM

1nsanilicious: tereklusec: WeDemocrats sent dignitaries THEN security personnel instead of the other way around?

WeDemocrats really are the overconfident assholes the rest of the countries accuse us of being.

FTFY


I'm as remorseful as you are that Democrats are also Americans, but sadly it's a truth we cannot change. So I stand, regretfully, correct in my original statement.
 
2012-09-13 08:13:55 AM

I_Can't_Believe_it's_not_Boutros: Marines? All the way over there by Tripoli? Unlikely.


Thread over
 
2012-09-13 08:15:19 AM
So the right wingers shiatting all over the marines have been incorrect? This is a shocking development.
 
2012-09-13 08:15:25 AM
It is hard to predict what will set off Muslim nations, this time its about a movie that no one has ever heard of and these douchebags whipped themselves into a frenzy, created by asinine coonts for political gain.

One thing for sure is the leadership in Egypt doesn't have the cojones to quell the Islamists, it is going to be fun to see that country slowly rot in the hands of the Muslim Brotherhood.

I have always thought the Middle East is a rotten part of the world that should be shunned from the International community, that includes Israel.

These backward, feckless people deserve to be left to rot...
 
2012-09-13 08:15:50 AM

I_Can't_Believe_it's_not_Boutros: Marines? All the way over there by Tripoli? Unlikely.


Well, maybe up to the shore. But inland?
 
2012-09-13 08:16:16 AM
There are many missions that have no Marine presence and Marines, when present, protect information not personnel. Embassy and consulate protection is the responsibility of the host government.
 
2012-09-13 08:17:19 AM

Lunaville: Well, the latest trend is outsourcing. The government can save taxpayers' money by paying employees of Blackwater/Xe/What-ever-those-criminals-currently-call-themselves many times more what an active duty member of the military would earn. It's all part of the important cost-cutting drive to run government more like a business.


We already do that. Take a look at the Worldwide Personnel Protective Services contract.
 
2012-09-13 08:17:27 AM

oeneus: There are many missions that have no Marine presence and Marines, when present, protect information not personnel. Embassy and consulate protection is the responsibility of the host government.


Marines, like all armed forces, protect whatever you tell them to. And they protect it well, with violence if necessary.
 
2012-09-13 08:18:05 AM

1nsanilicious: Maybe Obama would have if he attended his intelligence reviews instead of requesting bear hugs from pizza shop owners for campaign fodder.


lolz. 6/10
 
2012-09-13 08:18:10 AM
1nsanilicious
2012-09-13 08:10:23 AM

tereklusec: WeDemocrats sent dignitaries THEN security personnel instead of the other way around?

WeDemocrats really are the overconfident assholes the rest of the countries accuse us of being.

FTFY

-1/10 not serious

No Moniclinton mention?
-2
Back to troll school, tool.
 
2012-09-13 08:18:12 AM

oeneus: There are many missions that have no Marine presence and Marines, when present, protect information not personnel. Embassy and consulate protection is the responsibility of the host government.


BUT HOW COME OBAMA DIDN'T HAVE AN ARMORED DIVISION THERE TO KILL THE PROTESTORS?!
 
2012-09-13 08:18:14 AM

I_Can't_Believe_it's_not_Boutros: Marines? All the way over there by Tripoli? Unlikely.


They were back in the halls with Montezuma's revenge.
 
2012-09-13 08:18:19 AM

Cork on Fork: I_Can't_Believe_it's_not_Boutros: Marines? All the way over there by Tripoli? Unlikely.

Well, maybe up to the shore. But inland?


Maybe they were busy looking for the halls of Montezuma.
 
2012-09-13 08:18:45 AM
Yeah, I'm sure that we left an embassy completely unguarded.
 
2012-09-13 08:18:48 AM

tereklusec: I'm as remorseful as you are that Democrats are also Americans, but sadly it's a truth we cannot change. So I stand, regretfully, correct in my original statement


You're about as funny as end stage syphilis
 
2012-09-13 08:19:03 AM

Lunaville: Well, the latest trend is outsourcing. The government can save taxpayers' money by paying employees of Blackwater/Xe/What-ever-those-criminals-currently-call-themselves many times more what an active duty member of the military would earn. It's all part of the important cost-cutting drive to run government more like a business.


.
.
You would be surprised how cheap you can get Fijians to guard a US consulate.
 
2012-09-13 08:20:13 AM

oeneus: There are many missions that have no Marine presence and Marines, when present, protect information not personnel. Embassy and consulate protection is the responsibility of the host government.


exactly. the host country determines security. these dignitaries know their job can be dangerous. but something is fishy with all this and that video. this whole thing just feels weird. like we're being played. and yes I do watch shows like Rubicon,Jericho and Homeland. Why do you ask?
 
2012-09-13 08:22:18 AM
There was some security with the ambassador. From reading all the accounts, you can deduce that there was a small handful of non-uniformed types that were in charge of security. It sounds like they got to a more secure area and were eventually able to hold out until the militants dispersed, but two of those guys got killed in the gun battle. I don't suspect we'll find out their identities.
 
2012-09-13 08:22:37 AM

HotWingConspiracy: oeneus: There are many missions that have no Marine presence and Marines, when present, protect information not personnel. Embassy and consulate protection is the responsibility of the host government.

BUT HOW COME OBAMA DIDN'T HAVE AN ARMORED DIVISION THERE TO KILL THE PROTESTORS?!


Troll or not, I find it necessary to iterate at least for the public viewers that people can protest without firing RPGs at other people, and that once a protest becomes so inherently violent it becomes a crime. A crime which can be defended against, and if necessary, interceded upon with violence in order to protect the innocent. Were there to be a unit assigned, and were they to have slain these individuals instead of neutralizing or detaining them with some other manner, they would have been killing murderers not protestors. I think that distinction is important.

If they had raped a single white female your outrage would be changing teams, I think, and you would be calling them rapists instead of protestors.
 
2012-09-13 08:23:21 AM

david_gaithersburg: Lunaville: Well, the latest trend is outsourcing. The government can save taxpayers' money by paying employees of Blackwater/Xe/What-ever-those-criminals-currently-call-themselves many times more what an active duty member of the military would earn. It's all part of the important cost-cutting drive to run government more like a business.

.
.
You would be surprised how cheap you can get Fijians to guard a US consulate.


Not if they are working for URG or Garda. We had two Fijians PSDs in Karrada and they were making pretty good coin working for URG, and several of their friends were working for Garda in the Green Zone.

For some odd reasons, Fijians are considered Australians when hired by US companies overseas. The Fijians found this amusing.
 
2012-09-13 08:24:39 AM

X-boxershorts: tereklusec: I'm as remorseful as you are that Democrats are also Americans, but sadly it's a truth we cannot change. So I stand, regretfully, correct in my original statement

You're about as funny as end stage syphilis


Have you seen end-stage syphillis? Did you know it eats cartilage? They have these goofy deflated noses, so hilario-...wait..you were joking, right? That was a joke?
 
2012-09-13 08:24:51 AM
Maybe they were off being brave, courageous heroes elsewhere.
 
2012-09-13 08:24:59 AM
If you've ever been to a US Embassy or consulate, those things are basically fortresses with multiple blast-proof doors. Remember how we spent $2 billion on the one in Baghdad? And it's not even just the ones in recent war zones. Visit the US embassies and consulates in countries that are friendly to the US and have no history of political violence and you'll see the same thing.

To think that we'd have consular staff in basically an office park in what was up until a few months ago a war zone is concerning and makes you realize how brave the people were who worked there. To claim that it was "interim facility" and hence had no serious protection would seem to have things completely backward. If it was interim and difficult to secure, you'd think that would be a case for going overboard on protection, and that's not even mentioning the 9/11 anniversary connection. I hope a thorough investigation is conducted so we can find out what really happened, although that probably won't be the case.
 
2012-09-13 08:25:22 AM

tereklusec: HotWingConspiracy: oeneus: There are many missions that have no Marine presence and Marines, when present, protect information not personnel. Embassy and consulate protection is the responsibility of the host government.

BUT HOW COME OBAMA DIDN'T HAVE AN ARMORED DIVISION THERE TO KILL THE PROTESTORS?!

Troll or not, I find it necessary to iterate at least for the public viewers that people can protest without firing RPGs at other people, and that once a protest becomes so inherently violent it becomes a crime. A crime which can be defended against, and if necessary, interceded upon with violence in order to protect the innocent. Were there to be a unit assigned, and were they to have slain these individuals instead of neutralizing or detaining them with some other manner, they would have been killing murderers not protestors. I think that distinction is important.


Perhaps you missed the part where the host country handles security for consulates?

If they had raped a single white female your outrage would be changing teams, I think, and you would be calling them rapists instead of protestors.

I don't even know what the fark to say to this. Why do people like you bring race in to everything?
 
2012-09-13 08:25:32 AM

SeismicJizzer: It is hard to predict what will set off Muslim nations, this time its about a movie that no one has ever heard of and these douchebags whipped themselves into a frenzy, created by asinine coonts for political gain.

One thing for sure is the leadership in Egypt doesn't have the cojones to quell the Islamists, it is going to be fun to see that country slowly rot in the hands of the Muslim Brotherhood.

I have always thought the Middle East is a rotten part of the world that should be shunned from the International community, that includes Israel.

These backward, feckless people deserve to be left to rot...


You have a 'thing' for rotting.
 
2012-09-13 08:26:18 AM
Seriously people

it's easier for the US gub'mint to have dead americans than to have to apologize to these (continuously) outraged places for soldiers killing in order to stay alive.
Been happening for years in the desert.
 
2012-09-13 08:27:10 AM

tereklusec: If they had raped a single white female your outrage would be changing teams, I think, and you would be calling them rapists instead of protestors.


It would depend on whether it was a Republican or Democrat who did the raping.

/Because this is Fark.
 
2012-09-13 08:27:42 AM

beefoe: If you've ever been to a US Embassy or consulate, those things are basically fortresses with multiple blast-proof doors. Remember how we spent $2 billion on the one in Baghdad? And it's not even just the ones in recent war zones. Visit the US embassies and consulates in countries that are friendly to the US and have no history of political violence and you'll see the same thing.

To think that we'd have consular staff in basically an office park in what was up until a few months ago a war zone is concerning and makes you realize how brave the people were who worked there. To claim that it was "interim facility" and hence had no serious protection would seem to have things completely backward. If it was interim and difficult to secure, you'd think that would be a case for going overboard on protection, and that's not even mentioning the 9/11 anniversary connection. I hope a thorough investigation is conducted so we can find out what really happened, although that probably won't be the case.


Said better than I was able to.
 
2012-09-13 08:28:39 AM

I_Can't_Believe_it's_not_Boutros: Marines? All the way over there by Tripoli? Unlikely.


To be fair, Benghazi is 150 miles east of Tripoli and the song does say "to the shores of Tripoli", so basically outside thier coverage area.
 
2012-09-13 08:29:27 AM
Well sure, all the shooting between the defenders and the attackers didn't contain marines...

though there were 2 marines and a communications officer killed as the "3 staffers" the U.S. articles talk about, or the "3 others" Obama mentioned.

It seems all the articles outside the U.S. seem to think marine uniforms and weapons on dead "staffers" tend to indicate something.
 
2012-09-13 08:30:05 AM

HotWingConspiracy: BUT HOW COME OBAMA DIDN'T HAVE AN ARMORED DIVISION THERE TO KILL THE PROTESTORS?!


Are morons like you still calling them protestors? So far we know that they had heavy machine guns, rocket propelled grenades and also launched a coordinated mortar attack.
 
2012-09-13 08:30:17 AM

HotWingConspiracy: tereklusec: HotWingConspiracy: oeneus: There are many missions that have no Marine presence and Marines, when present, protect information not personnel. Embassy and consulate protection is the responsibility of the host government.

BUT HOW COME OBAMA DIDN'T HAVE AN ARMORED DIVISION THERE TO KILL THE PROTESTORS?!

Troll or not, I find it necessary to iterate at least for the public viewers that people can protest without firing RPGs at other people, and that once a protest becomes so inherently violent it becomes a crime. A crime which can be defended against, and if necessary, interceded upon with violence in order to protect the innocent. Were there to be a unit assigned, and were they to have slain these individuals instead of neutralizing or detaining them with some other manner, they would have been killing murderers not protestors. I think that distinction is important.

Perhaps you missed the part where the host country handles security for consulates?

If they had raped a single white female your outrage would be changing teams, I think, and you would be calling them rapists instead of protestors.

I don't even know what the fark to say to this. Why do people like you bring race in to everything?


I did not miss anything. I think that what beefoe wrote better explains my thoughts on this. Read his post. Again, if necessary.

As for forcing the race issue I think you trying to force anti-Obamaism and overzealous lust for violence into the equation is as equally nonsensical, and so I retaliated in like fashion for shock value so that you might understand the nature of your error.
 
2012-09-13 08:31:05 AM
What was the Ambassador to Libya doing in an unfortified consulate (unlike the US Embassy in Tripoli) without Marine protection? The situation seems very strange to me.
 
2012-09-13 08:31:16 AM
The Marines didn't stop the Iranian capture of our embassy.

They are no protection against a major foreign policy failure.
 
2012-09-13 08:31:16 AM

beefoe: If you've ever been to a US Embassy or consulate, those things are basically fortresses with multiple blast-proof doors.


I was working for a structural engineer here in DC back in the early 90's. I was pretty junior but right after I started there was some talk about how they had recently been approached to work on a new embassy over there, thinking back I swear now I think it might have been in Libya. I can't recall for sure where but it was in that general region that made everybody's eyes light up. The engineers were all excited and just throwing around shop talk about the enormous amount of concrete design they would have to do. They were stoked, but I think they passed on the job.
 
2012-09-13 08:33:30 AM

xtragrind: HotWingConspiracy: BUT HOW COME OBAMA DIDN'T HAVE AN ARMORED DIVISION THERE TO KILL THE PROTESTORS?!

Are morons like you still calling them protestors?


Yes.

So far we know that they had heavy machine guns, rocket propelled grenades and also launched a coordinated mortar attack.

Right. Those people would not be labeled protestors. Though if you can show me that everyone there was armed and stormed the consulate, I'll stop calling the unarmed protestors protestors.
 
2012-09-13 08:34:17 AM
The intelligence source contrasted it with the American embassy in Cairo, Egypt - "a permanent facility, which is a lot easier to defend."

You mean the facility where protesters easily climbed over the wall, tore down the US flag, ripped it to shreds, then hung up an Islamic flag....on 9/11?
Yeah, that place sounds real secure.
 
2012-09-13 08:34:20 AM
Look, all you need to understand (are you listening, press?) is that this was a coordinated attack by Al Qaida in retribution for the killing of one of their leaders in late August. The Libyan ambassador was targeted where he was because of the lack of security.

Countries that host embassies also have a repsonsibility to keep mobs clear from the surrounding areas through crowd control. It's possible, in this case, that not only did that not happen, but government personnel were actually involved in the attack.

It's getting a bit sickening that the red herring of "that bad bad film thoise racists are making" is continually being floated as the reason for these attacks. These were not "protestors" - they were attackers.

This was a terrorist attack.

It's very likely the attack on the Egyptian embassy was part of that. The Yemeni embassy attacks might also be a part of that (or it's just momentum).

Who is to blame? How about we blame radical Islamists for being what they are? No more reason is needed beyond that. There are several ways to stop these attacks, but appeasement isn't a practical choice.
 
2012-09-13 08:36:04 AM
This is what happens when you stop at the shores of Tripoli.
 
2012-09-13 08:36:19 AM

tereklusec: HotWingConspiracy: tereklusec: HotWingConspiracy: oeneus: There are many missions that have no Marine presence and Marines, when present, protect information not personnel. Embassy and consulate protection is the responsibility of the host government.

BUT HOW COME OBAMA DIDN'T HAVE AN ARMORED DIVISION THERE TO KILL THE PROTESTORS?!

Troll or not, I find it necessary to iterate at least for the public viewers that people can protest without firing RPGs at other people, and that once a protest becomes so inherently violent it becomes a crime. A crime which can be defended against, and if necessary, interceded upon with violence in order to protect the innocent. Were there to be a unit assigned, and were they to have slain these individuals instead of neutralizing or detaining them with some other manner, they would have been killing murderers not protestors. I think that distinction is important.

Perhaps you missed the part where the host country handles security for consulates?

If they had raped a single white female your outrage would be changing teams, I think, and you would be calling them rapists instead of protestors.

I don't even know what the fark to say to this. Why do people like you bring race in to everything?

I did not miss anything. I think that what beefoe wrote better explains my thoughts on this. Read his post. Again, if necessary.


That still completely ignores that the host country provides security for consulates.

As for forcing the race issue I think you trying to force anti-Obamaism and overzealous lust for violence into the equation is as equally nonsensical, and so I retaliated in like fashion for shock value so that you might understand the nature of your error.

Yeah, nobody believes that.
 
2012-09-13 08:37:04 AM
To be fair, America had just liberated Libya.
 
2012-09-13 08:37:19 AM
I don't believe there is a conspiracy here, but the Internet is already going the crazy-lunatic route on this one, for some pretty good reasons.

//It would appear to be a no-brainer that some serious defense should have been provided, but I guess this is all hindsight fodder.
 
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