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(Talking Points Memo)   Finally, the first loyal GOP soldier steps forward with Romney - Jon Kyl says the Embassy's statement is the same as telling a girl that she deserved to be raped   (livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 377
    More: Asinine, Jon Kyl, GOP, soldiers  
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5921 clicks; posted to Politics » on 12 Sep 2012 at 10:17 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-12 11:44:31 PM  
Why won't Romney distance himself from this video? Why won't he release a definitive list of his donors? Why doesnt romney tell us who produced the video? Why won't he answer questions about where he was in 1990 when that poor girl was killed?

Just askin'.
 
2012-09-12 11:46:12 PM  
I just have to say, fark you Citizens United.
 
2012-09-12 11:46:43 PM  

IronOcelot: Fista-Phobia: Was it this stupid last election? There's no way it was.

No it wasn't.
They Republicans were convinced that Saint Reagan's blessings would lead the Glorious Army of Supply Side Jesus to victory with Palin D'Arc in the vanguard.
Convinced 100%
I had relatives who thought the OBAMA WINS scrolling on the bottom of Fox morning news was a joke.

Now they are convinced that ONE THOUSAND YEARS OF DARKNESS is upon them and they are shiatting themselves.


But Reagan never went around complaining about rapiness. He wasn't using rape as a unit of measurement. I weep for our children's history books/lessons/podcasts. Shilling knows no shame.
 
2012-09-12 11:47:20 PM  

GhostFish: MFAWG: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: MFAWG: I should probably not comment on a film I haven't seen, but none of those people were deliberately looking to provoke violence on a large scale.

That may not be the case here.

I just have trouble reconciling that with art in general though. It's what art does, and "inciting violence" is a hazy line depending on where you are in the world. The video may incite, for all I know, since I haven't seen it. While I'm wary of art being used for the defense of the indefensible, I'm just as worried that caving in will result in artists being sent off to the gulags if their opinions differ from those of the establishment.

'Hazy Line'. I like that. But we agree that somebody MAY have crossed a line here? And why the anonymity? Most artists take credit for their work.

As I pointed out to someone else in another thread, you're acting like the rioters weren't independent individuals capable of making their own choices. They chose to respond with violence, and many other people did not. They aren't mindless animals, they're not a powder keg, and they're not running for their lives from a burning building. They chose how to react to something someone said, and that violent reaction is on them and no one else.


Oh, they are responsible for their actions, but the fact still remains that these people would, in all likelihood, never have known about this unless those fundie whackjobs hadn't made damn sure they leaked it to the Egyptian and Libyan press. This was done, on purpose, and with malice.
 
2012-09-12 11:48:35 PM  

Cyclometh: spongeboob: Interesting post from another thread I will go look for it but the gist was that the whole "Jewish producer" doesn't exist and that it is just a bunch of 'Christians' involved in the movie.

It turns out that it's a Coptic Christian named Nakoula Basseley Nakoula. Note the resemblance between "Bacile" and "Basseley".

More info here:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/09/12/161003427/what-we-know - about-sam-bacile-the-man-behind-the-muhammad-movie


Man this story just keeps getting weirder it was a Christian posing as a Jew who claimed other Jews gave him the money, and the peopel acting in the movie didn't know it was an anti-Islamic movie. The offensive dialogue appears to have been added in post production.
 
2012-09-12 11:48:43 PM  

Ambivalence: Whcih is ironic becuase in the middle east, that's exactly what they do tell a girl who's been raped.

Republicans should seriously consider striking the word "rape" from their vocabulary.



It's so rapist of you to point out their rapism!

/I haven't been paying close attention, so it wouldn't surprise me if some Rtard had already said that in earnest
 
2012-09-12 11:49:01 PM  

Lost Thought 00: Shaggy_C: Wasn't the statement released before the attack? It was supposed to defuse the situation, not apologize for it afterwards.

They will not be dictated by facts


Or clocks.
 
2012-09-12 11:50:17 PM  

GhostFish: As I pointed out to someone else in another thread, you're acting like the rioters weren't independent individuals capable of making their own choices. They chose to respond with violence, and many other people did not. They aren't mindless animals, they're not a powder keg, and they're not running for their lives from a burning building. They chose how to react to something someone said, and that violent reaction is on them and no one else.


That's a weak rationalization, and let me explain why. Since this thread seems to be heavily rape-based, I might as well go with a thought-experiment building on that.

Let's say a man's on his way to the convenience store to buy a candy bar. Right before he gets there, he somehow receives credible information that the act of buying the candy bar will trigger a complicated series of events culminating in a woman who he's never met being raped by a man who he's also never met. The fact that the rapist is an "independent individual" doesn't change the fact that he knows what consequences various courses of action will have, and thus will make decisions based on what he wants those consequences to be (or, perhaps, how important or trivial he considers those consequences).

if I were in that situation, I know that no amount of abstraction could possibly obscure the fact that I can affect the consequences by changing my own actions and nothing more - the number of people or non-people between myself and the final consequence wouldn't be a factor. Obviously I would find it regrettable that something that should be innocuous is giving people excuses to carry out senseless acts of violence, and in a broader sense would want the underlying issues to be addressed. But I would also know that in the immediate sense, a world where a woman isn't getting raped is better than a world where she is getting raped, and I would do what I could to make the former world a reality - even if it meant not doing something I would otherwise have wanted.

And if, for whatever reason, I felt that my own "artistic" whims were more important than those consequences, then I should be happy to live with my share (however small it might be) of the responsibility for those consequences.
 
2012-09-12 11:50:43 PM  
But it depends on what the girl was wearing, right? Isn't that what conservatives actually believe?

And if the girl gets pregnant than it wasn't really a rape, right? So what does that mean for the United States?

I'm scared and confused.
 
2012-09-12 11:52:47 PM  
NO, Its more like the disclaimer in front of the 700 Club thar States that the content of the following broadcast do not represent the opinions of the station please don't sue our asses off or boycott us if this offends you. They paid the the air time. Get it right Mitt you used to be a lawyer. Recognize the boilerplate language.
 
2012-09-12 11:56:18 PM  
The terrorist attack in Benghazi had NOTHING to do with this bigoted agitprop. It was a coordinated military attack that had been planned for months in response to a US drone killing of al Qaeda's former Number 2, Abu Yahya al-Libi, who was from Libya.

Unless Senator Kyl believes that we shouldn't be killing off the top Generals in al Qaeda, he needs to STFU about what happened and read some farking newspapers.
 
2012-09-12 11:57:20 PM  

theteacher: Why doesnt romney tell us who produced the video?


Now we know why he won't release his tax returns.
 
2012-09-12 11:59:50 PM  
Holy fark I just watched the 12-minute trailer for this movie. It's like Tim & Eric decided to mock the idea of what an anti-Islamic video would look like. It's shot really well, except for the parts when it was a clearly skilled lighting guy trying to make it seem like he was an amateur. They blatantly dub over certain points to add in "Muslim" and "Mohammed." I seriously do not know how to interpret this video. I would be laughing my ass off at it, had it not caused several deaths.

Here's the trailer.
 
2012-09-13 12:01:03 AM  

Biological Ali: GhostFish: As I pointed out to someone else in another thread, you're acting like the rioters weren't independent individuals capable of making their own choices. They chose to respond with violence, and many other people did not. They aren't mindless animals, they're not a powder keg, and they're not running for their lives from a burning building. They chose how to react to something someone said, and that violent reaction is on them and no one else.

That's a weak rationalization, and let me explain why. Since this thread seems to be heavily rape-based, I might as well go with a thought-experiment building on that.

Let's say a man's on his way to the convenience store to buy a candy bar. Right before he gets there, he somehow receives credible information that the act of buying the candy bar will trigger a complicated series of events culminating in a woman who he's never met being raped by a man who he's also never met. The fact that the rapist is an "independent individual" doesn't change the fact that he knows what consequences various courses of action will have, and thus will make decisions based on what he wants those consequences to be (or, perhaps, how important or trivial he considers those consequences).

if I were in that situation, I know that no amount of abstraction could possibly obscure the fact that I can affect the consequences by changing my own actions and nothing more - the number of people or non-people between myself and the final consequence wouldn't be a factor. Obviously I would find it regrettable that something that should be innocuous is giving people excuses to carry out senseless acts of violence, and in a broader sense would want the underlying issues to be addressed. But I would also know that in the immediate sense, a world where a woman isn't getting raped is better than a world where she is getting raped, and I would do what I could to make the former world a reality - even if it meant not doing something I would otherwise hav ...


Quite the scenario.

Problem is, these violent riots aren't an isolated incident. They are the result of a standing threat of retribution for insulting Mohammed. That threat is irrational and grossly disproportionate to the stimulus, and it should not be respected or kowtowed to. If we become okay with censoring one instance of inflammatory speech because a bunch of thugs threaten us with violence, where does it end? What's to stop them from saying they'll do it unless our women cover up? And if the women refuse, and dress provocatively in protest, are they to blame when the riots start again?
 
2012-09-13 12:02:12 AM  

MFAWG: Yeah, this. What's really, really weird, I mean Glenn Beck weird, is that absolutely nobody knows who actually made the film.

Now what in the Sam Hill is that all about?


According to the only person they've found who claims to have met Sam Bacile, he's not an Israeli real estate developer. He's a Vietnam vet who has spent the last decade eliminating al Qaeda terror cells in California. I'm not kidding.
 
2012-09-13 12:05:27 AM  
Wot's wrong wif being sexy?
 
2012-09-13 12:06:03 AM  

wingnut396: GBmanNC: As the most liberal lib who ever libbed...I don't think he is getting his point across well, and what the embassy sent out wasn't an apology, but I agree with him in theory. I was going to make a similar analogy in one of the previous fark threads but thought the better of it. Essentially if you put blame on the person who made the film, you are shifting blame from the violent extremists who are the problem. Saying "well he should know there are consequences to his actions (the film maker)" is not all that dissimilar to "there are consequences for what she was wearing".

Bullshiat.

This is what happened:

1. Some trolltastic asshole make a video they know will make fundie muslims go apeshiat... which is why they are all hiding their identity from the outset.
2. Fundie muslims go apeshiat, start cursing the US... in several seperate cities in seperate countries.
3. US Embassy in Cairo says "Hey, WFT BRO!. We didn't make that trolltasict ass-sucking video. You can hand with whoever you want.. in fact it is one of our cornerstones. Yeah we have assholes living the US, but they can speak their small, pinheaded asshole mind. Its not us. So chill the fark out."
4. US Embassy in Cairo is mobbed, but no loss of life and eventually situtation cools.
5. US Consoluate in another country, one recently through a longer and bloodier civil war, is attacked by a different group of fundie muslims. No tweets are sent from the Bhengazi Consulate. US Consulate officials are killed.
6. Mitt Romeny: This makes Obama look bad... good!


Tin foil hat mode:
The guy who made the video denies to be Israeli, but many say he is. He is operating under a pseudonym, starts promoting this video dubbed in arabic on the jihadist sites to cause an uproar on 9/11 in an attempt to make a cover for Mossad to blow up some US personnel in Libya, misguidedly thinking Romney wouldn't fark up a response to it, get elected, and help them with Iran. Mossad is known for awful plans that don't quite work.
 
2012-09-13 12:09:48 AM  

skullkrusher: Mrtraveler01: skullkrusher: do none of these guys have anyone reading the news before they issue statement?

You think common sense would dictate that but I think the GOP got that part of their brain removed years ago.

I think it's at the point where we must critique the performance art. That shiat is outstanding


Hate to break it to you, but you're going to be a self-proclaimed "liberal" in 4 years.
 
2012-09-13 12:11:50 AM  
WOW, its like the Catholics going full retard over "The Life of Brian"!
 
2012-09-13 12:12:34 AM  
my hearts to those who are lost...

the most important take away from this is that ultraconservative right wing nutjubs are insane. Doesn't matter which god of Abraham they're following. Netanyahu, the leaders in Libya who incited theviolence, and even the GOP "Christian" response here in America. It's all WAR WAR WAR.

it is 2012. The 21st century, people. Let's start acting like it, and reject this nonsense from the bronze and iron age.
 
2012-09-13 12:13:33 AM  

Matrix Flavored Wasabi: wingnut396: GBmanNC: As the most liberal lib who ever libbed...I don't think he is getting his point across well, and what the embassy sent out wasn't an apology, but I agree with him in theory. I was going to make a similar analogy in one of the previous fark threads but thought the better of it. Essentially if you put blame on the person who made the film, you are shifting blame from the violent extremists who are the problem. Saying "well he should know there are consequences to his actions (the film maker)" is not all that dissimilar to "there are consequences for what she was wearing".

Bullshiat.

This is what happened:

1. Some trolltastic asshole make a video they know will make fundie muslims go apeshiat... which is why they are all hiding their identity from the outset.
2. Fundie muslims go apeshiat, start cursing the US... in several seperate cities in seperate countries.
3. US Embassy in Cairo says "Hey, WFT BRO!. We didn't make that trolltasict ass-sucking video. You can hand with whoever you want.. in fact it is one of our cornerstones. Yeah we have assholes living the US, but they can speak their small, pinheaded asshole mind. Its not us. So chill the fark out."
4. US Embassy in Cairo is mobbed, but no loss of life and eventually situtation cools.
5. US Consoluate in another country, one recently through a longer and bloodier civil war, is attacked by a different group of fundie muslims. No tweets are sent from the Bhengazi Consulate. US Consulate officials are killed.
6. Mitt Romeny: This makes Obama look bad... good!

Tin foil hat mode:
The guy who made the video denies to be Israeli, but many say he is. He is operating under a pseudonym, starts promoting this video dubbed in arabic on the jihadist sites to cause an uproar on 9/11 in an attempt to make a cover for Mossad to blow up some US personnel in Libya, misguidedly thinking Romney wouldn't fark up a response to it, get elected, and help them with Iran. Mossad is known for awful plans ...


www.inquisitr.com
 
2012-09-13 12:15:11 AM  

Grungehamster: MFAWG: Yeah, this. What's really, really weird, I mean Glenn Beck weird, is that absolutely nobody knows who actually made the film.

Now what in the Sam Hill is that all about?

According to the only person they've found who claims to have met Sam Bacile, he's not an Israeli real estate developer. He's a Vietnam vet who has spent the last decade eliminating al Qaeda terror cells in California. I'm not kidding.


I think you misread a little Steve Klein claims this He said Bacile contacted him because he leads anti-Islam protests outside of mosques and schools, and because, he said, he is a Vietnam veteran and an expert on uncovering al Qaeda cells in California. And from Npr a copitic Christian Nakoula Basseley Nakoula is Bacile. Link
 
2012-09-13 12:17:49 AM  

impaler: skullkrusher: Mrtraveler01: skullkrusher: do none of these guys have anyone reading the news before they issue statement?

You think common sense would dictate that but I think the GOP got that part of their brain removed years ago.

I think it's at the point where we must critique the performance art. That shiat is outstanding

Hate to break it to you, but you're going to be a self-proclaimed "liberal" in 4 years.


no, that won't happen. I've seen what self proclaimed "liberals" are like.
 
2012-09-13 12:17:54 AM  

Grungehamster: MFAWG: Yeah, this. What's really, really weird, I mean Glenn Beck weird, is that absolutely nobody knows who actually made the film.

Now what in the Sam Hill is that all about?

According to the only person they've found who claims to have met Sam Bacile, he's not an Israeli real estate developer. He's a Vietnam vet who has spent the last decade eliminating al Qaeda terror cells in California. I'm not kidding.


Wow, seems pretty adamant about the "not israeli jew" thing. Crazy people, when they lie, will repeat the lie over and over and over. Pretty sure this guy qualifies as crazy.
 
2012-09-13 12:19:41 AM  

skullkrusher: impaler: skullkrusher: Mrtraveler01: skullkrusher: do none of these guys have anyone reading the news before they issue statement?

You think common sense would dictate that but I think the GOP got that part of their brain removed years ago.

I think it's at the point where we must critique the performance art. That shiat is outstanding

Hate to break it to you, but you're going to be a self-proclaimed "liberal" in 4 years.

no, that won't happen. I've seen what self proclaimed "liberals" are like.



Hate to break it to you, but you're going to be a self-proclaimed "liberal" in 4 years.
 
2012-09-13 12:21:38 AM  
I'm just glad that I live in a civilized country. We would never kill people over the content of a MOVIE!

Just how far divorced from reality do you think we are?

/ sideshowbob.jpg
 
2012-09-13 12:22:11 AM  

iaazathot: Wow, seems pretty adamant about the "not israeli jew" thing. Crazy people, when they lie, will repeat the lie over and over and over. Pretty sure this guy qualifies as crazy.


The video itself is even weirder. This whole situation is like some weird botched sketch comedy skit.
 
2012-09-13 12:22:12 AM  

GhostFish: Problem is, these violent riots aren't an isolated incident. They are the result of a standing threat of retribution for insulting Mohammed. That threat is irrational and grossly disproportionate to the stimulus, and it should not be respected or kowtowed to. If we become okay with censoring one instance of inflammatory speech because a bunch of thugs threaten us with violence, where does it end? What's to stop them from saying they'll do it unless our women cover up? And if the women refuse, and dress provocatively in protest, are they to blame when the riots start again?


I think you've got a few things confused here. The people protesting the film and the people who attacked the consulate with RPGs are two separate entities. The motivations of the latter aren't perfectly known, but it's plausible that the protests merely gave them an opportunity to do something that they had already been planning - so in this sense it could just as easily have happened during a protest on some domestic issue. It's not as though you have the nation of Libya collectively making demands and then killing random people when they're not met.

With this in mind, anything that causes that level of unrest would be wrong. I made reference to the Red Summer in an earlier thread as well, but I might as well bring it up again. Mentioning that a black man has been accused of rape is not in and of itself wrong (if you're not saying anything false or misleading). However, repeatedly running that (and similar stories) as newspaper headlines in cities where racial tension is already extremely high crosses over from merely "saying things" and into "laying the groundwork for the lynchings that will inevitable follow".
 
2012-09-13 12:24:34 AM  

abb3w: exick: While I don't believe the case was a rape case, didn't this exact thing just happen in Arizona?

Getting groped by a cop, for going into a bar. Linky.


Mr Gropey there

bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com

reminds me of

nycomedy.files.wordpress.com 

I thought he was supposed to be an Upright Citizen?
 
2012-09-13 12:24:48 AM  

Fista-Phobia: Matrix Flavored Wasabi: wingnut396: GBmanNC: As the most liberal lib who ever libbed...I don't think he is getting his point across well, and what the embassy sent out wasn't an apology, but I agree with him in theory. I was going to make a similar analogy in one of the previous fark threads but thought the better of it. Essentially if you put blame on the person who made the film, you are shifting blame from the violent extremists who are the problem. Saying "well he should know there are consequences to his actions (the film maker)" is not all that dissimilar to "there are consequences for what she was wearing".

Bullshiat.

This is what happened:

1. Some trolltastic asshole make a video they know will make fundie muslims go apeshiat... which is why they are all hiding their identity from the outset.
2. Fundie muslims go apeshiat, start cursing the US... in several seperate cities in seperate countries.
3. US Embassy in Cairo says "Hey, WFT BRO!. We didn't make that trolltasict ass-sucking video. You can hand with whoever you want.. in fact it is one of our cornerstones. Yeah we have assholes living the US, but they can speak their small, pinheaded asshole mind. Its not us. So chill the fark out."
4. US Embassy in Cairo is mobbed, but no loss of life and eventually situtation cools.
5. US Consoluate in another country, one recently through a longer and bloodier civil war, is attacked by a different group of fundie muslims. No tweets are sent from the Bhengazi Consulate. US Consulate officials are killed.
6. Mitt Romeny: This makes Obama look bad... good!

Tin foil hat mode:
The guy who made the video denies to be Israeli, but many say he is. He is operating under a pseudonym, starts promoting this video dubbed in arabic on the jihadist sites to cause an uproar on 9/11 in an attempt to make a cover for Mossad to blow up some US personnel in Libya, misguidedly thinking Romney wouldn't fark up a response to it, get elected, and help them with Iran. Mossad i ...


I have no idea who that is, but I like his style
 
2012-09-13 12:25:42 AM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: Holy fark I just watched the 12-minute trailer for this movie. It's like Tim & Eric decided to mock the idea of what an anti-Islamic video would look like. It's shot really well, except for the parts when it was a clearly skilled lighting guy trying to make it seem like he was an amateur. They blatantly dub over certain points to add in "Muslim" and "Mohammed." I seriously do not know how to interpret this video. I would be laughing my ass off at it, had it not caused several deaths.

Here's the trailer.


Is it art?
 
2012-09-13 12:26:06 AM  
Unless of course, that's that asshole conservative "gotcha!" 'documentary' maker. Then he can go blow a goat
 
2012-09-13 12:27:01 AM  
OMGWTFIJUSTGOTTOTHEPRONPART!!!!????!!! WTF IS THIS shiat!
 
2012-09-13 12:27:43 AM  
Why does Romney and his crew insist on attacking the victims of the embassy attack?
 
2012-09-13 12:27:45 AM  

impaler: skullkrusher: impaler: skullkrusher: Mrtraveler01: skullkrusher: do none of these guys have anyone reading the news before they issue statement?

You think common sense would dictate that but I think the GOP got that part of their brain removed years ago.

I think it's at the point where we must critique the performance art. That shiat is outstanding

Hate to break it to you, but you're going to be a self-proclaimed "liberal" in 4 years.

no, that won't happen. I've seen what self proclaimed "liberals" are like.


Hate to break it to you, but you're going to be a self-proclaimed "liberal" in 4 years.


umm... still... no. Recognizing the truth isn't "liberal". Liberal is calling for civilian trial for KSM while deflecting criticism from drone attacks. That's "liberal" in Fark terms
 
2012-09-13 12:29:56 AM  
Headline should read "US Ambassador killed by ultraconservative right wing religious nut jobs".
 
2012-09-13 12:30:58 AM  

GBmanNC: As the most liberal lib who ever libbed...I don't think he is getting his point across well, and what the embassy sent out wasn't an apology, but I agree with him in theory. I was going to make a similar analogy in one of the previous fark threads but thought the better of it. Essentially if you put blame on the person who made the film, you are shifting blame from the violent extremists who are the problem. Saying "well he should know there are consequences to his actions (the film maker)" is not all that dissimilar to "there are consequences for what she was wearing".


No, the person who made this film did it for a reason. One of the actors said the dialogue was dubbed after they were done and it was supposed to be about Egypt a couple thousand years ago. Nothing about Mohamed, nothing about Muslims. The guy is scum and did it on purpose. I am not sure about much on this whole issue but this I believe with all my heart.
 
2012-09-13 12:31:32 AM  

ManateeGag: When did Obama apologize?


He started apologizing when he was born...in Kenya.
 
2012-09-13 12:33:23 AM  

MFAWG: Is it art?


I honestly can't tell until I know more about the intentions of the author. Had it been Tim & Eric or Trey Parker and Matt Stone doing it as a critique of Islamic fundamentalism, then yes, it would be art, and I would regret the loss of life while championing the artists' right to free speech. Were it a false flag operation run by some government that wanted to incite violence against American interests as a pretext for something or other, no. There's no good faith involved in that situation. If the initial story turns out to be true, and it was produced by some whack-job anti-Al-Qaeda nut in California, I think I'd err on the side of freedom of speech.

I seriously doubt this was the work of anything but professionals though. There are way too many tip-offs.
 
2012-09-13 12:35:27 AM  

Sabyen91: GBmanNC: As the most liberal lib who ever libbed...I don't think he is getting his point across well, and what the embassy sent out wasn't an apology, but I agree with him in theory. I was going to make a similar analogy in one of the previous fark threads but thought the better of it. Essentially if you put blame on the person who made the film, you are shifting blame from the violent extremists who are the problem. Saying "well he should know there are consequences to his actions (the film maker)" is not all that dissimilar to "there are consequences for what she was wearing".

No, the person who made this film did it for a reason. One of the actors said the dialogue was dubbed after they were done and it was supposed to be about Egypt a couple thousand years ago. Nothing about Mohamed, nothing about Muslims. The guy is scum and did it on purpose. I am not sure about much on this whole issue but this I believe with all my heart.


Ditto.
 
2012-09-13 12:36:31 AM  

Biological Ali: GhostFish: Problem is, these violent riots aren't an isolated incident. They are the result of a standing threat of retribution for insulting Mohammed. That threat is irrational and grossly disproportionate to the stimulus, and it should not be respected or kowtowed to. If we become okay with censoring one instance of inflammatory speech because a bunch of thugs threaten us with violence, where does it end? What's to stop them from saying they'll do it unless our women cover up? And if the women refuse, and dress provocatively in protest, are they to blame when the riots start again?

I think you've got a few things confused here. The people protesting the film and the people who attacked the consulate with RPGs are two separate entities. The motivations of the latter aren't perfectly known, but it's plausible that the protests merely gave them an opportunity to do something that they had already been planning - so in this sense it could just as easily have happened during a protest on some domestic issue. It's not as though you have the nation of Libya collectively making demands and then killing random people when they're not met.

With this in mind, anything that causes that level of unrest would be wrong. I made reference to the Red Summer in an earlier thread as well, but I might as well bring it up again. Mentioning that a black man has been accused of rape is not in and of itself wrong (if you're not saying anything false or misleading). However, repeatedly running that (and similar stories) as newspaper headlines in cities where racial tension is already extremely high crosses over from merely "saying things" and into "laying the groundwork for the lynchings that will inevitable follow".


In Cairo, they scaled the walls, tore down the flag and threw rocks. That's aggressive, violent behavior in reaction to nothing more than someones stupid ideas put to film.

In Benghazi, similar events seemed to be unfolding before the attack. If another group joined in and took advantage of the crowd in order to facilitate their attack then that's pretty awful. But that doesn't mean that the filmmaker is any more to blame. It would in fact make him less to blame.
 
2012-09-13 12:37:24 AM  

Ambivalence: ManateeGag: When did Obama apologize?

He didn't. That's party why Romney's getting roasted today.

The embassy in Egypt, in an effort to appease the mob, released a statement condemning the movie, and apologizing for the stupid First Ammendment. That's all.

 
2012-09-13 12:38:38 AM  

Sabyen91: No, the person who made this film did it for a reason. One of the actors said the dialogue was dubbed after they were done and it was supposed to be about Egypt a couple thousand years ago. Nothing about Mohamed, nothing about Muslims. The guy is scum and did it on purpose. I am not sure about much on this whole issue but this I believe with all my heart.


The whole clip has random and blatant dubs that say "Muslim" or "Mohammed." Had you just come upon the trailer on TV, you would have thought it was a satire. It's like one of those sitcom jokes where "Vote Lisa" in a little girl's voice turns into "Vote Ralph" in a Brooklyn accent.
 
2012-09-13 12:40:20 AM  
i75.photobucket.com

Republicans are getting pretty desperate here. I guess it did finally distract us from Romney/Ryan's inability to promote specific policies. And hell, it's not like we're talking about his missing Tax returns anymore, right?
 
2012-09-13 12:40:21 AM  

Tumunga: The embassy in Egypt, in an effort to appease the mob, released a statement condemning the movie, and apologizing for the stupid First Ammendment. That's all.


I see we have another idiot that can't tell the difference between condemning something and apologizing for something.
 
2012-09-13 12:40:28 AM  

skullkrusher: impaler: skullkrusher: Mrtraveler01: skullkrusher: do none of these guys have anyone reading the news before they issue statement?

You think common sense would dictate that but I think the GOP got that part of their brain removed years ago.

I think it's at the point where we must critique the performance art. That shiat is outstanding

Hate to break it to you, but you're going to be a self-proclaimed "liberal" in 4 years.

no, that won't happen. I've seen what self proclaimed "liberals" are like.


Heh, you don't have to be a "The Nation" commenter to be a self-proclaimed liberal.
 
2012-09-13 12:40:28 AM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: MFAWG: Is it art?

I honestly can't tell until I know more about the intentions of the author. Had it been Tim & Eric or Trey Parker and Matt Stone doing it as a critique of Islamic fundamentalism, then yes, it would be art, and I would regret the loss of life while championing the artists' right to free speech. Were it a false flag operation run by some government that wanted to incite violence against American interests as a pretext for something or other, no. There's no good faith involved in that situation. If the initial story turns out to be true, and it was produced by some whack-job anti-Al-Qaeda nut in California, I think I'd err on the side of freedom of speech.

I seriously doubt this was the work of anything but professionals though. There are way too many tip-offs.


Honest question: What would the threshold be for made solely to incite violence?
 
2012-09-13 12:40:40 AM  
Somebody found the GOPs Moral Compass...

kiwimadepreaching.com
 
2012-09-13 12:42:23 AM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: Sabyen91: No, the person who made this film did it for a reason. One of the actors said the dialogue was dubbed after they were done and it was supposed to be about Egypt a couple thousand years ago. Nothing about Mohamed, nothing about Muslims. The guy is scum and did it on purpose. I am not sure about much on this whole issue but this I believe with all my heart.

The whole clip has random and blatant dubs that say "Muslim" or "Mohammed." Had you just come upon the trailer on TV, you would have thought it was a satire. It's like one of those sitcom jokes where "Vote Lisa" in a little girl's voice turns into "Vote Ralph" in a Brooklyn accent.


That supports what the actress said that it had nothing to do with what it eventually became and they were duped. Disgusting. That is why I believe he did it on purpose. He couldn't even tell the truth to the actors.
 
2012-09-13 12:46:04 AM  

Sabyen91: skullkrusher: impaler: skullkrusher: Mrtraveler01: skullkrusher: do none of these guys have anyone reading the news before they issue statement?

You think common sense would dictate that but I think the GOP got that part of their brain removed years ago.

I think it's at the point where we must critique the performance art. That shiat is outstanding

Hate to break it to you, but you're going to be a self-proclaimed "liberal" in 4 years.

no, that won't happen. I've seen what self proclaimed "liberals" are like.

Heh, you don't have to be a "The Nation" commenter to be a self-proclaimed liberal.


well, no. The Nation tends to be consistent
 
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