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(Talking Points Memo)   Finally, the first loyal GOP soldier steps forward with Romney - Jon Kyl says the Embassy's statement is the same as telling a girl that she deserved to be raped   (livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 378
    More: Asinine, Jon Kyl, GOP, soldiers  
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5921 clicks; posted to Politics » on 12 Sep 2012 at 10:17 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-13 12:46:04 AM

Sabyen91: skullkrusher: impaler: skullkrusher: Mrtraveler01: skullkrusher: do none of these guys have anyone reading the news before they issue statement?

You think common sense would dictate that but I think the GOP got that part of their brain removed years ago.

I think it's at the point where we must critique the performance art. That shiat is outstanding

Hate to break it to you, but you're going to be a self-proclaimed "liberal" in 4 years.

no, that won't happen. I've seen what self proclaimed "liberals" are like.

Heh, you don't have to be a "The Nation" commenter to be a self-proclaimed liberal.


well, no. The Nation tends to be consistent
 
2012-09-13 12:47:12 AM

skullkrusher: Sabyen91: skullkrusher: impaler: skullkrusher: Mrtraveler01: skullkrusher: do none of these guys have anyone reading the news before they issue statement?

You think common sense would dictate that but I think the GOP got that part of their brain removed years ago.

I think it's at the point where we must critique the performance art. That shiat is outstanding

Hate to break it to you, but you're going to be a self-proclaimed "liberal" in 4 years.

no, that won't happen. I've seen what self proclaimed "liberals" are like.

Heh, you don't have to be a "The Nation" commenter to be a self-proclaimed liberal.

well, no. The Nation tends to be consistent


I like The Nation. The commentors are retarded.
 
2012-09-13 12:48:24 AM

Sabyen91: skullkrusher: Sabyen91: skullkrusher: impaler: skullkrusher: Mrtraveler01: skullkrusher: do none of these guys have anyone reading the news before they issue statement?

You think common sense would dictate that but I think the GOP got that part of their brain removed years ago.

I think it's at the point where we must critique the performance art. That shiat is outstanding

Hate to break it to you, but you're going to be a self-proclaimed "liberal" in 4 years.

no, that won't happen. I've seen what self proclaimed "liberals" are like.

Heh, you don't have to be a "The Nation" commenter to be a self-proclaimed liberal.

well, no. The Nation tends to be consistent

I like The Nation. The commentors are retarded.


I don't. But at least they're consistently "retarded".

Seriously man, you're an adult. Find a better word
 
2012-09-13 12:50:16 AM

skullkrusher: Sabyen91: skullkrusher: Sabyen91: skullkrusher: impaler: skullkrusher: Mrtraveler01: skullkrusher: do none of these guys have anyone reading the news before they issue statement?

You think common sense would dictate that but I think the GOP got that part of their brain removed years ago.

I think it's at the point where we must critique the performance art. That shiat is outstanding

Hate to break it to you, but you're going to be a self-proclaimed "liberal" in 4 years.

no, that won't happen. I've seen what self proclaimed "liberals" are like.

Heh, you don't have to be a "The Nation" commenter to be a self-proclaimed liberal.

well, no. The Nation tends to be consistent

I like The Nation. The commentors are retarded.

I don't. But at least they're consistently "retarded".

Seriously man, you're an adult. Find a better word


Developmentally disabled
 
2012-09-13 12:50:53 AM
Wow. The Republicans are really pissing their pants over this shiat.

Romney was going to torpedo his own campaign eventually. He's Palin-lite, except he has to actually talk to the press. And he's going to shoot himself in the foot a number of more times before this is over. In the debates, Mitt is going to be challenged directly by his opponent, who is 100x the politician he is, and stupid shiat is going to come out of his mouth. He'll land a few half-assed zingers that he will have rehearsed before hand, but nobody is going to remember those.

It's time to start worrying about the down-ticket damage he could cause in the next 7 weeks.
 
2012-09-13 12:52:25 AM

MFAWG: Honest question: What would the threshold be for made solely to incite violence?


It's a good question. I'm not entirely sure how to describe it, and I'm not sure how to judge it, to be honest. On a personal, subjective level, it would be something that makes an implicit call for illegal action. Pointing out that Mohammed knocked up a preteen girl is fine. It's a valid criticism. Pointing out that Mohammed knocked up a preteen girl and for that reason his religion is an abomination that must be purged from the earth by word or steel would be an incitement to violence.

It's problematic to draw hard and fast rules when you have people like Bill O'Reilly calling that abortion doctor "Tiller the Killer" and implying that the world would be better off without him slaughtering babies left and right. That's why I would hate being on one of these juries that decides what is and what is not an incitement to violence. It's always subjective when you're forced to evaluate the difference between "Someone should kill the president," and "Should someone kill the president?"

/NSA please don't flag me for that last sentence, it was rhetorical
 
2012-09-13 12:52:26 AM

GhostFish: In Benghazi, similar events seemed to be unfolding before the attack. If another group joined in and took advantage of the crowd in order to facilitate their attack then that's pretty awful. But that doesn't mean that the filmmaker is any more to blame. It would in fact make him less to blame.


No, his blame remains about the same, because the fact that he recklessly contributed to a volatile and dangerous situation remains the same. The only relevant question is "Could things be different if I act differently?" All this talk about the other people of varying motivations involved in the chain of events is nothing but buck-passing rationalization.

The idea that everybody who contributes, either willfully or through indifference to some bad outcome (it's obviously different if the person genuinely didn't know) shares some of the blame shouldn't be controversial. Some people seem to be treating this as some zero-sum game where there's a limited amount of blame and that by blaming anybody but the immediate triggerman you're somehow lessening his culpability - but that's not the case.
 
2012-09-13 12:52:31 AM

skullkrusher: Sabyen91: skullkrusher: Sabyen91: skullkrusher: impaler: skullkrusher: Mrtraveler01: skullkrusher: do none of these guys have anyone reading the news before they issue statement?

You think common sense would dictate that but I think the GOP got that part of their brain removed years ago.

I think it's at the point where we must critique the performance art. That shiat is outstanding

Hate to break it to you, but you're going to be a self-proclaimed "liberal" in 4 years.

no, that won't happen. I've seen what self proclaimed "liberals" are like.

Heh, you don't have to be a "The Nation" commenter to be a self-proclaimed liberal.

well, no. The Nation tends to be consistent

I like The Nation. The commentors are retarded.

I don't. But at least they're consistently "retarded".

Seriously man, you're an adult. Find a better word


Also, they may be consistent but they are consistently idealistic without one whit of practicality.
 
2012-09-13 12:53:37 AM

Sabyen91: skullkrusher: Sabyen91: skullkrusher: Sabyen91: skullkrusher: impaler: skullkrusher: Mrtraveler01: skullkrusher: do none of these guys have anyone reading the news before they issue statement?

You think common sense would dictate that but I think the GOP got that part of their brain removed years ago.

I think it's at the point where we must critique the performance art. That shiat is outstanding

Hate to break it to you, but you're going to be a self-proclaimed "liberal" in 4 years.

no, that won't happen. I've seen what self proclaimed "liberals" are like.

Heh, you don't have to be a "The Nation" commenter to be a self-proclaimed liberal.

well, no. The Nation tends to be consistent

I like The Nation. The commentors are retarded.

I don't. But at least they're consistently "retarded".

Seriously man, you're an adult. Find a better word

Developmentally disabled


just say they act gay. Everyone on the playground will understand
 
2012-09-13 12:54:19 AM

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: MFAWG: Honest question: What would the threshold be for made solely to incite violence?

It's a good question. I'm not entirely sure how to describe it, and I'm not sure how to judge it, to be honest.


It is that question that makes it so hard to prosecute "inciting violence". I think it is pretty damned clear that Terry Jones knows what he is doing. I think it is clear this guy knew what he was doing. Proving it is a different matter.
 
2012-09-13 12:54:54 AM

skullkrusher: Sabyen91: skullkrusher: Sabyen91: skullkrusher: Sabyen91: skullkrusher: impaler: skullkrusher: Mrtraveler01: skullkrusher: do none of these guys have anyone reading the news before they issue statement?

You think common sense would dictate that but I think the GOP got that part of their brain removed years ago.

I think it's at the point where we must critique the performance art. That shiat is outstanding

Hate to break it to you, but you're going to be a self-proclaimed "liberal" in 4 years.

no, that won't happen. I've seen what self proclaimed "liberals" are like.

Heh, you don't have to be a "The Nation" commenter to be a self-proclaimed liberal.

well, no. The Nation tends to be consistent

I like The Nation. The commentors are retarded.

I don't. But at least they're consistently "retarded".

Seriously man, you're an adult. Find a better word

Developmentally disabled

just say they act gay. Everyone on the playground will understand


Alternately sexual.
 
2012-09-13 12:54:56 AM

shower_in_my_socks: Wow. The Republicans are really pissing their pants over this shiat.

Romney was going to torpedo his own campaign eventually. He's Palin-lite, except he has to actually talk to the press. And he's going to shoot himself in the foot a number of more times before this is over. In the debates, Mitt is going to be challenged directly by his opponent, who is 100x the politician he is, and stupid shiat is going to come out of his mouth. He'll land a few half-assed zingers that he will have rehearsed before hand, but nobody is going to remember those.

It's time to start worrying about the down-ticket damage he could cause in the next 7 weeks.


And yet the rank and file are eating this stuff up. My Young Republican board member friend keeps tweeting away about how people are trying to suppress Mittens' right to free speech, and my aunt went off on my facebook post about how disgusted I am at the way Mitt is politicizing it by derping about how at least Mitt is standing up for America unlike Obama. I asked her what more she wanted, for Obama to get down on his hands and knees and lick her shoes?
 
2012-09-13 12:56:56 AM

Sabyen91: It is that question that makes it so hard to prosecute "inciting violence". I think it is pretty damned clear that Terry Jones knows what he is doing. I think it is clear this guy knew what he was doing. Proving it is a different matter.


Unless Terry Jones managed to get in touch with some agency that could make him disappear entirely, I doubt it's him.

That guy would want the publicity.
 
2012-09-13 12:57:01 AM

Sabyen91: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: MFAWG: Honest question: What would the threshold be for made solely to incite violence?

It's a good question. I'm not entirely sure how to describe it, and I'm not sure how to judge it, to be honest.

It is that question that makes it so hard to prosecute "inciting violence". I think it is pretty damned clear that Terry Jones knows what he is doing. I think it is clear this guy knew what he was doing. Proving it is a different matter.


The burden of proof is different in a civil court than criminal one. Somebody should sue the shiat out of these guys just for the annoyance factor.
 
2012-09-13 12:59:45 AM

Sabyen91: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: MFAWG: Honest question: What would the threshold be for made solely to incite violence?

It's a good question. I'm not entirely sure how to describe it, and I'm not sure how to judge it, to be honest.

It is that question that makes it so hard to prosecute "inciting violence". I think it is pretty damned clear that Terry Jones knows what he is doing. I think it is clear this guy knew what he was doing. Proving it is a different matter.


I'm convinced that Terry Jones decided to start pulling these stunts because he wasn't getting traction for the stuff he pulls in Gainesville.
 
2012-09-13 01:03:32 AM

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: Sabyen91: It is that question that makes it so hard to prosecute "inciting violence". I think it is pretty damned clear that Terry Jones knows what he is doing. I think it is clear this guy knew what he was doing. Proving it is a different matter.

Unless Terry Jones managed to get in touch with some agency that could make him disappear entirely, I doubt it's him.

That guy would want the publicity.


I am not convinced he wants to be killed for his stunts. I think he might not have realized just how dangerous his game has become for him. He isn't very bright (which is also a mark against him being the force behind the movie).
 
2012-09-13 01:03:45 AM

rynthetyn: And yet the rank and file are eating this stuff up.



Yeah, but so what? It's like the GOP has forgotten how to attract anyone but the lunatic fringe. They really have no idea what most of the country is thinking.
 
2012-09-13 01:04:13 AM

rynthetyn: Sabyen91: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: MFAWG: Honest question: What would the threshold be for made solely to incite violence?

It's a good question. I'm not entirely sure how to describe it, and I'm not sure how to judge it, to be honest.

It is that question that makes it so hard to prosecute "inciting violence". I think it is pretty damned clear that Terry Jones knows what he is doing. I think it is clear this guy knew what he was doing. Proving it is a different matter.

I'm convinced that Terry Jones decided to start pulling these stunts because he wasn't getting traction for the stuff he pulls in Gainesville.


He seems kind of like a dupe here. Which might actually be a step up for him, now that I think about it.

Seriously, watch the trailer. And think about this: This is a trailer for a feature length film. That means there are 55 more minutes or so of that to watch.
 
2012-09-13 01:04:32 AM

MFAWG: Sabyen91: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: MFAWG: Honest question: What would the threshold be for made solely to incite violence?

It's a good question. I'm not entirely sure how to describe it, and I'm not sure how to judge it, to be honest.

It is that question that makes it so hard to prosecute "inciting violence". I think it is pretty damned clear that Terry Jones knows what he is doing. I think it is clear this guy knew what he was doing. Proving it is a different matter.

The burden of proof is different in a civil court than criminal one. Somebody should sue the shiat out of these guys just for the annoyance factor.


That is true but if it is a jury in Florida...
 
2012-09-13 01:05:56 AM

MFAWG: The burden of proof is different in a civil court than criminal one. Somebody should sue the shiat out of these guys just for the annoyance factor.


Well there's not really a precedent for it on the global stage. If I say that the French are a bunch of cheese-eating surrender monkeys in order to provoke them into violence, should my own government prosecute me for saying things that are legal in my own country? Should the U.N. decide whether or not I've violated international law and the U.S. should willingly extradite me to France because their laws prohibit calling them cheese-eating surrender monkeys?

The whole situation is a mess. The people who made the film are idiots. The people who rioted because of it are idiots. And we're forced to twiddle our thumbs because calling either side out as idiots will only incite further violence. Realpolitik: a lot of fun until it's not a lot of fun.
 
2012-09-13 01:05:58 AM

MFAWG: rynthetyn: Sabyen91: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: MFAWG: Honest question: What would the threshold be for made solely to incite violence?

It's a good question. I'm not entirely sure how to describe it, and I'm not sure how to judge it, to be honest.

It is that question that makes it so hard to prosecute "inciting violence". I think it is pretty damned clear that Terry Jones knows what he is doing. I think it is clear this guy knew what he was doing. Proving it is a different matter.

I'm convinced that Terry Jones decided to start pulling these stunts because he wasn't getting traction for the stuff he pulls in Gainesville.

He seems kind of like a dupe here. Which might actually be a step up for him, now that I think about it.

Seriously, watch the trailer. And think about this: This is a trailer for a feature length film. That means there are 55 more minutes or so of that to watch.


Well, we don't actually know if there is anything other than the trailer, and Buzzfeed has another story they just posted on tracking down one of the people involved and how phenomenally bizarre it is.
 
2012-09-13 01:07:17 AM

rynthetyn: Sabyen91: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: MFAWG: Honest question: What would the threshold be for made solely to incite violence?

It's a good question. I'm not entirely sure how to describe it, and I'm not sure how to judge it, to be honest.

It is that question that makes it so hard to prosecute "inciting violence". I think it is pretty damned clear that Terry Jones knows what he is doing. I think it is clear this guy knew what he was doing. Proving it is a different matter.

I'm convinced that Terry Jones decided to start pulling these stunts because he wasn't getting traction for the stuff he pulls in Gainesville.


I agree with MFAWG, he isn't very bright. I think he might even realize what kind of a game he has been playing after he got the call from General Dempsey.
 
2012-09-13 01:07:26 AM

MFAWG: JudgeSmails: MFAWG: elchip: BREAKING NEWS - The Koch Bros and Sheldon Adelson were responsible for producing the video.

/It's about as true as most of Romney's attacks on Obama

Maybe they were. Did the film 'Just Take Off' on social media, or was it pushed? And seriously, why can't anybody identify the producer?

I think it could have been an attempt to create a crisis and make the POTUS look bad, and it's gone horribly, horribly wrong.

he's finally been identified

Link

Good catch, your lordship!

First impression is that he's basically a dick stirring the pot for fun and profit?


From the link:

But a Christian activist involved in the film project, Steve Klein, told AP on Wednesday that Bacile was a pseudonym and that he was Christian....

Klein told the AP that he vowed to help make the movie but warned the filmmaker that "you're going to be the next Theo van Gogh." Van Gogh was a Dutch filmmaker killed by a Muslim extremist in 2004 after making a film that was perceived as insulting to Islam.

"We went into this knowing this was probably going to happen," Klein said.


We went into this knowing this was probably going to happen

We went into this knowing this was probably going to happen

We went into this knowing this was probably going to happen
 
2012-09-13 01:07:40 AM

Biological Ali: GhostFish: In Benghazi, similar events seemed to be unfolding before the attack. If another group joined in and took advantage of the crowd in order to facilitate their attack then that's pretty awful. But that doesn't mean that the filmmaker is any more to blame. It would in fact make him less to blame.

No, his blame remains about the same, because the fact that he recklessly contributed to a volatile and dangerous situation remains the same. The only relevant question is "Could things be different if I act differently?" All this talk about the other people of varying motivations involved in the chain of events is nothing but buck-passing rationalization.

The idea that everybody who contributes, either willfully or through indifference to some bad outcome (it's obviously different if the person genuinely didn't know) shares some of the blame shouldn't be controversial. Some people seem to be treating this as some zero-sum game where there's a limited amount of blame and that by blaming anybody but the immediate triggerman you're somehow lessening his culpability - but that's not the case.


I'm opposed to blaming someone for speaking their mind because they are not in control of how the other people react. A violent reaction may have been predictable, but that doesn't make the violence anymore the fault of the person speaking their mind. If you say that it is, then you open the door for censorship and you give the violent thugs validation for their actions and beliefs and you give them a tool that can be used to further reduce the freedoms of others. You also excuse this violent behavior as something that's somewhat out of control of the people who use it. As if their reaction was predetermined.
 
2012-09-13 01:08:08 AM

Sabyen91: MFAWG: Sabyen91: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: MFAWG: Honest question: What would the threshold be for made solely to incite violence?

It's a good question. I'm not entirely sure how to describe it, and I'm not sure how to judge it, to be honest.

It is that question that makes it so hard to prosecute "inciting violence". I think it is pretty damned clear that Terry Jones knows what he is doing. I think it is clear this guy knew what he was doing. Proving it is a different matter.

The burden of proof is different in a civil court than criminal one. Somebody should sue the shiat out of these guys just for the annoyance factor.

That is true but if it is a jury in Florida...


And in Alachua county where people have had to put up with his derp for years and are sick of him, no less.
 
2012-09-13 01:10:21 AM

Sabyen91: rynthetyn: Sabyen91: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: MFAWG: Honest question: What would the threshold be for made solely to incite violence?

It's a good question. I'm not entirely sure how to describe it, and I'm not sure how to judge it, to be honest.

It is that question that makes it so hard to prosecute "inciting violence". I think it is pretty damned clear that Terry Jones knows what he is doing. I think it is clear this guy knew what he was doing. Proving it is a different matter.

I'm convinced that Terry Jones decided to start pulling these stunts because he wasn't getting traction for the stuff he pulls in Gainesville.

I agree with MFAWG, he isn't very bright. I think he might even realize what kind of a game he has been playing after he got the call from General Dempsey.


I think we'll have to wait and see whether he decides to show his face around Gainesville in the next few weeks or not. I think he knew what he was doing because it's not like the it's the first time one of his stunts have ended up with dead Americans.
 
2012-09-13 01:10:54 AM

kapaso: Lost Thought 00: Shaggy_C: Wasn't the statement released before the attack? It was supposed to defuse the situation, not apologize for it afterwards.

They will not be dictated by facts

Or clocks.


Or the exact date, nor year.
 
2012-09-13 01:13:29 AM

common sense is an oxymoron: MFAWG: JudgeSmails: MFAWG: elchip: BREAKING NEWS - The Koch Bros and Sheldon Adelson were responsible for producing the video.

/It's about as true as most of Romney's attacks on Obama

Maybe they were. Did the film 'Just Take Off' on social media, or was it pushed? And seriously, why can't anybody identify the producer?

I think it could have been an attempt to create a crisis and make the POTUS look bad, and it's gone horribly, horribly wrong.

he's finally been identified

Link

Good catch, your lordship!

First impression is that he's basically a dick stirring the pot for fun and profit?

From the link:

But a Christian activist involved in the film project, Steve Klein, told AP on Wednesday that Bacile was a pseudonym and that he was Christian....

Klein told the AP that he vowed to help make the movie but warned the filmmaker that "you're going to be the next Theo van Gogh." Van Gogh was a Dutch filmmaker killed by a Muslim extremist in 2004 after making a film that was perceived as insulting to Islam.

"We went into this knowing this was probably going to happen," Klein said.

We went into this knowing this was probably going to happen

We went into this knowing this was probably going to happen

We went into this knowing this was probably going to happen


That's still different than 'We did it to makes this happen'.
 
2012-09-13 01:15:22 AM
How can these guys be so unaware about the way their statements are perceived by people who actually read and think? I know, they're hoping we don't think - that's the only explanation. The new name for their party ought to be "Republicans - WTF", no lie.
 
2012-09-13 01:15:36 AM

skullkrusher: Sabyen91: skullkrusher: Sabyen91: skullkrusher: impaler: skullkrusher: Mrtraveler01: skullkrusher: do none of these guys have anyone reading the news before they issue statement?

You think common sense would dictate that but I think the GOP got that part of their brain removed years ago.

I think it's at the point where we must critique the performance art. That shiat is outstanding

Hate to break it to you, but you're going to be a self-proclaimed "liberal" in 4 years.

no, that won't happen. I've seen what self proclaimed "liberals" are like.

Heh, you don't have to be a "The Nation" commenter to be a self-proclaimed liberal.

well, no. The Nation tends to be consistent

I like The Nation. The commentors are retarded.

I don't. But at least they're consistently "retarded".

Seriously man, you're an adult. Find a better word


How about "Skullkrusher" ?
 
2012-09-13 01:17:22 AM

S Gilmore L: How can these guys be so unaware about the way their statements are perceived by people who actually read and think? I know, they're hoping we don't think - that's the only explanation. The new name for their party ought to be "Republicans - WTF", no lie.


It was intentoinal, and partisan. fortunately, Mittens dropped the ball on his dick (as usual).
 
2012-09-13 01:18:17 AM

rynthetyn: Sabyen91: rynthetyn: Sabyen91: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: MFAWG: Honest question: What would the threshold be for made solely to incite violence?

It's a good question. I'm not entirely sure how to describe it, and I'm not sure how to judge it, to be honest.

It is that question that makes it so hard to prosecute "inciting violence". I think it is pretty damned clear that Terry Jones knows what he is doing. I think it is clear this guy knew what he was doing. Proving it is a different matter.

I'm convinced that Terry Jones decided to start pulling these stunts because he wasn't getting traction for the stuff he pulls in Gainesville.

I agree with MFAWG, he isn't very bright. I think he might even realize what kind of a game he has been playing after he got the call from General Dempsey.

I think we'll have to wait and see whether he decides to show his face around Gainesville in the next few weeks or not. I think he knew what he was doing because it's not like the it's the first time one of his stunts have ended up with dead Americans.


It is different when the American lives that are endangered are his and his family's. I really hope he shuts the fark up.
 
2012-09-13 01:19:06 AM

jso2897: skullkrusher: Sabyen91: skullkrusher: Sabyen91: skullkrusher: impaler: skullkrusher: Mrtraveler01: skullkrusher: do none of these guys have anyone reading the news before they issue statement?

You think common sense would dictate that but I think the GOP got that part of their brain removed years ago.

I think it's at the point where we must critique the performance art. That shiat is outstanding

Hate to break it to you, but you're going to be a self-proclaimed "liberal" in 4 years.

no, that won't happen. I've seen what self proclaimed "liberals" are like.

Heh, you don't have to be a "The Nation" commenter to be a self-proclaimed liberal.

well, no. The Nation tends to be consistent

I like The Nation. The commentors are retarded.

I don't. But at least they're consistently "retarded".

Seriously man, you're an adult. Find a better word

How about "Skullkrusher" ?


His condescension was really cool though. :)
 
2012-09-13 01:21:14 AM

GhostFish: I'm opposed to blaming someone for speaking their mind because they are not in control of how the other people react.


What you're failing to appreciate is that the way that "other people reacted" in this instance was the purpose - it wasn't some unintended consequence of somebody "speaking their mind" for benign reasons (that is to say, whoever decided to use this film as anti-Islam propaganda).
 
2012-09-13 01:23:43 AM

GhostFish: You also excuse this violent behavior as something that's somewhat out of control of the people who use it. As if their reaction was predetermined.


Also, this part is nothing more than a strawman. I'm sorry, but after repeated explanations by many people across several threads of how identifying multiple parties at fault doesn't actually "excuse" anybody - there's really nothing else to call it.
 
2012-09-13 01:23:56 AM

Sabyen91: jso2897: skullkrusher: Sabyen91: skullkrusher: Sabyen91: skullkrusher: impaler: skullkrusher: Mrtraveler01: skullkrusher: do none of these guys have anyone reading the news before they issue statement?

You think common sense would dictate that but I think the GOP got that part of their brain removed years ago.

I think it's at the point where we must critique the performance art. That shiat is outstanding

Hate to break it to you, but you're going to be a self-proclaimed "liberal" in 4 years.

no, that won't happen. I've seen what self proclaimed "liberals" are like.

Heh, you don't have to be a "The Nation" commenter to be a self-proclaimed liberal.

well, no. The Nation tends to be consistent

I like The Nation. The commentors are retarded.

I don't. But at least they're consistently "retarded".

Seriously man, you're an adult. Find a better word

How about "Skullkrusher" ?

His condescension was really cool though. :)


Meh. He knows I kid because I love. We're all friends here.
 
2012-09-13 01:27:28 AM
Okay, let's tell it like it is:

Is Mitt Romney a Nazi Robot impersonating a person? Yes.

Did Hillary AND Obama fail to do anything effective to protect Christopher Stevens when they were warned repeatedly of this planned attack? Yes, the failed utterly.

Obama was concentrating on his campaign (for what? The guy hasn't got anyone running against him! The GOP campaign you see now is just a run up to the 2016 GOP landslide. They know they can't get this one)

Anyway, the Clintons and the Obamas took their eye off the ball.

Will Obama come out and say, "Oh yeah, I killed Osama Bion Laden, and ordered the drone strike on those other guys, and caused the deaths of our own Ambassador and his co-workers!" Well,at this point he can't really tout the whole Bin Laden thing without accepting culpability for this disaster in Libya!
 
2012-09-13 01:28:25 AM

jso2897: Sabyen91: jso2897: skullkrusher: Sabyen91: skullkrusher: Sabyen91: skullkrusher: impaler: skullkrusher: Mrtraveler01: skullkrusher:


One of you just eat the soggy goddam biscuit already!
 
2012-09-13 01:28:39 AM

MFAWG: common sense is an oxymoron: MFAWG: JudgeSmails: MFAWG: elchip: BREAKING NEWS - The Koch Bros and Sheldon Adelson were responsible for producing the video.

/It's about as true as most of Romney's attacks on Obama

Maybe they were. Did the film 'Just Take Off' on social media, or was it pushed? And seriously, why can't anybody identify the producer?

I think it could have been an attempt to create a crisis and make the POTUS look bad, and it's gone horribly, horribly wrong.

he's finally been identified

Link

Good catch, your lordship!

First impression is that he's basically a dick stirring the pot for fun and profit?

From the link:

But a Christian activist involved in the film project, Steve Klein, told AP on Wednesday that Bacile was a pseudonym and that he was Christian....

Klein told the AP that he vowed to help make the movie but warned the filmmaker that "you're going to be the next Theo van Gogh." Van Gogh was a Dutch filmmaker killed by a Muslim extremist in 2004 after making a film that was perceived as insulting to Islam.

"We went into this knowing this was probably going to happen," Klein said.

We went into this knowing this was probably going to happen

We went into this knowing this was probably going to happen

We went into this knowing this was probably going to happen

That's still different than 'We did it to makes this happen'.


The filmmakers acknowledge that their efforts would "probably" result in mob violence, but they went ahead anyway. In other words, as opposed to "I shot into a crowd in an attempt to kill someone," they were more like "I shot into a crowd; I didn't aim at anyone, but I fired the shot with the understanding that someone would probably get hit."

At best, it's the difference between Murder One and voluntary manslaughter.
 
2012-09-13 01:29:23 AM

jso2897: Sabyen91: jso2897: skullkrusher: Sabyen91: skullkrusher: Sabyen91: skullkrusher: impaler: skullkrusher: Mrtraveler01: skullkrusher: do none of these guys have anyone reading the news before they issue statement?

You think common sense would dictate that but I think the GOP got that part of their brain removed years ago.

I think it's at the point where we must critique the performance art. That shiat is outstanding

Hate to break it to you, but you're going to be a self-proclaimed "liberal" in 4 years.

no, that won't happen. I've seen what self proclaimed "liberals" are like.

Heh, you don't have to be a "The Nation" commenter to be a self-proclaimed liberal.

well, no. The Nation tends to be consistent

I like The Nation. The commentors are retarded.

I don't. But at least they're consistently "retarded".

Seriously man, you're an adult. Find a better word

How about "Skullkrusher" ?

His condescension was really cool though. :)

Meh. He knows I kid because I love. We're all friends here.


Meh, he was being douchey to me tonight. I will chalk it up to some drink. We have our ups and downs.
 
2012-09-13 01:29:38 AM

Heraclitus: WOW, its like the Catholics going full retard over "The Life of Brian"!


Except Life of Brian wasn't actually intended to insult Christianity. This is more like a LoB remake that portrayed Jesus sexually molesting children.
 
2012-09-13 01:30:32 AM

BuckTurgidson: jso2897: Sabyen91: jso2897: skullkrusher: Sabyen91: skullkrusher: Sabyen91: skullkrusher: impaler: skullkrusher: Mrtraveler01: skullkrusher:

One of you just eat the soggy goddam biscuit already!


That is alternatively sexual.
 
2012-09-13 01:30:38 AM

Biological Ali: GhostFish: I'm opposed to blaming someone for speaking their mind because they are not in control of how the other people react.

What you're failing to appreciate is that the way that "other people reacted" in this instance was the purpose - it wasn't some unintended consequence of somebody "speaking their mind" for benign reasons (that is to say, whoever decided to use this film as anti-Islam propaganda).


It's often said that WBC wants to provoke rights violations so that they can take the violators to court. Their intent is to provoke a negative reaction. Even so, I'm not going to blame WBC if someone loses their cool and starts firing into the crowd around them, injuring bystanders in the process.
 
2012-09-13 01:31:47 AM

GhostFish: Biological Ali: GhostFish: I'm opposed to blaming someone for speaking their mind because they are not in control of how the other people react.

What you're failing to appreciate is that the way that "other people reacted" in this instance was the purpose - it wasn't some unintended consequence of somebody "speaking their mind" for benign reasons (that is to say, whoever decided to use this film as anti-Islam propaganda).

It's often said that WBC wants to provoke rights violations so that they can take the violators to court. Their intent is to provoke a negative reaction. Even so, I'm not going to blame WBC if someone loses their cool and starts firing into the crowd around them, injuring bystanders in the process.


Partially blame, you mean.
 
2012-09-13 01:31:57 AM

Biological Ali: What you're failing to appreciate is that the way that "other people reacted" in this instance was the purpose - it wasn't some unintended consequence of somebody "speaking their mind" for benign reasons (that is to say, whoever decided to use this film as anti-Islam propaganda).


Well of course it would have been intended, however the instigator is never at fault when the perpetrator reacts violently. To do so is to assume that the perpetrator (in this case fundamentalist Muslims) are animals who react on instinct alone without any concept of right or wrong. If I ran up to Lloyd Blankfein tomorrow and said that his deeply held philosophical beliefs about economic fairness had ruined more lives than polio, and he punched me in the face, he would go to jail. I ran up there to deliberately provoke him, but am I responsible for him punching me in the face?

"Those people" just react that way, you have to understand. You need to dress less provocatively, or speak more delicately around them. It's pretty insulting, not just to the victims, but towards the larger demographic that is assumed to be an unthinking monster of retaliation and vengeance. There comes a point when we collectively as a planet need to say "Listen, some of this shiat you idiots are doing is unacceptable. Knock it off, or face the consequences."
 
2012-09-13 01:32:13 AM

thldmd456: Did Hillary AND Obama fail to do anything effective to protect Christopher Stevens when they were warned repeatedly of this planned attack? Yes, the failed utterly. ....


Good luck with that, sonny.
 
2012-09-13 01:33:00 AM

Sabyen91: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: MFAWG: Honest question: What would the threshold be for made solely to incite violence?

It's a good question. I'm not entirely sure how to describe it, and I'm not sure how to judge it, to be honest.

It is that question that makes it so hard to prosecute "inciting violence". I think it is pretty damned clear that Terry Jones knows what he is doing. I think it is clear this guy knew what he was doing. Proving it is a different matter.


Having seen the trailer, I would think incite violence would be clear, even if only with art critics. it was that badly done.
 
2012-09-13 01:33:06 AM

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: Well of course it would have been intended, however the instigator is never at fault when the perpetrator reacts violently.


Well, almost never at fault, I suppose. We still have the "temporary insanity" laws on the books, however infrequently they succeed.
 
2012-09-13 01:33:48 AM

Sabyen91: BuckTurgidson: jso2897: Sabyen91: jso2897: skullkrusher: Sabyen91: skullkrusher: Sabyen91: skullkrusher: impaler: skullkrusher: Mrtraveler01: skullkrusher:

One of you just eat the soggy goddam biscuit already!

That is alternatively sexual.


I took it that he was referring to the Holy Communion.
 
2012-09-13 01:36:00 AM

thrgd456: Okay, let's tell it like it is:

Is Mitt Romney a Nazi Robot impersonating a person? Yes.

Did Hillary AND Obama fail to do anything effective to protect Christopher Stevens when they were warned repeatedly of this planned attack? Yes, the failed utterly.

Obama was concentrating on his campaign (for what? The guy hasn't got anyone running against him! The GOP campaign you see now is just a run up to the 2016 GOP landslide. They know they can't get this one)

Anyway, the Clintons and the Obamas took their eye off the ball.

Will Obama come out and say, "Oh yeah, I killed Osama Bion Laden, and ordered the drone strike on those other guys, and caused the deaths of our own Ambassador and his co-workers!" Well,at this point he can't really tout the whole Bin Laden thing without accepting culpability for this disaster in Libya!


Why is it that the sort of gasbag who starts out by informing us that he is going to "tell it like it is", always ends up blathering some bizarre personal fantasy that only he can see?
 
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