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(Seattle Times)   Portland to vote on whether to add fluoride to drinking water. This IS a repeat from 1976   (seattletimes.com) divider line 156
    More: Asinine, portland, fluorides, drinking water, occupy portland, fluoridation, American Dental Association, state Department of Human Services, council  
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2312 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Sep 2012 at 6:13 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-12 04:07:53 PM  
Portland is considered one of the nation's most liberal cities

But... but... but science!
 
2012-09-12 04:08:31 PM  
And dentists in Portland rejoiced.
 
2012-09-12 04:10:25 PM  
www.atomicexpress.net
 
2012-09-12 04:19:20 PM  
Newburgh, New York, was the first city to use the entire city's population to study fluoride's bad side effects to the rest of the body. And the results were dismal.

After ten years, bone defects, and earlier female menstruation occurred more often in Newburgh's children dosed with sodium fluoride-laced drinking water when compared to the control city of Kingston, NY. (3)

According to Professor Paul Connett, PhD, who teaches environmental chemistry and toxicology at St. Lawrence University in NY, "These results were ignored at the time, but are now being seen as valuable clues to far more serious problems, like accumulation of fluoride in the human pineal gland with a possible lowering of melatonin levels (Luke, 1997, 2001); increased bone fractures in children (Alarcon-Herrera et al., 2001) and possibly increased osteosarcoma (a bone cancer which is frequently fatal) rates in young men (NAS, 1977; NTP, 1990; Hoover, 1991; Cohn 1992; and Mihashi 1996).

Meanwhile, after over 50 years of water fluoridation, many children in Newburgh, New York have more cavities and more fluoride-caused discolored teeth (dental fluorosis) than children in never-fluoridated Kingston, New York, according to a NYS Department of Health study published in the NYS Dental Journal (February 1998, Figure 1, Page 41)

http://thyroid.about.com/b/2005/05/09/should-we-apologize-for-fluorid a tion-not-celebrate-it.htm
 
2012-09-12 04:24:11 PM  
I only ever got cavities during the 5 years I lived in San Antonio Texas which, at the time, didn't have fluoridated water.

I'm not saying there's a definite cause and effect there, but anecdotal evidence is a KIND of evidence.
 
2012-09-12 04:34:17 PM  
Stupid hippies. They probably have their panties in a wad about wifi and wood burning fireplaces too.
 
2012-09-12 04:41:40 PM  
Out of curiosity, I wonder what the vaccination rate in Portland is.
 
2012-09-12 05:24:29 PM  

Shostie: [www.atomicexpress.net image 640x358]


fc02.deviantart.net

Nineteen hundred and forty-six. 1946, Mandrake. How does that coincide with your post-war Commie conspiracy, huh? It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hard-core Commie works.
 
2012-09-12 06:15:11 PM  
I'm relying on this thread to supply me with the US FDA's RDA of pseudo-science and conspiracy theories.
 
2012-09-12 06:15:50 PM  
After I moved here and went to the dentist for the first time he said "well, I can see you didn't grow up in Portland" since my teeth didn't look like chiclets. The smiles here could fill a few anthologies of the "Big book of British smiles".
 
2012-09-12 06:16:10 PM  
Two Portland threads in a row! Let's go for a third!
 
2012-09-12 06:16:55 PM  
How about you just provide me with water and, if I feel like fluoride is something I'd like to ingest, I'll add it myself.
 
2012-09-12 06:17:35 PM  

detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: After I moved here and went to the dentist for the first time he said "well, I can see you didn't grow up in Portland" since my teeth didn't look like chiclets. The smiles here could fill a few anthologies of the "Big book of British smiles".


you've also been reading /r/Portland.
 
2012-09-12 06:17:48 PM  
Portland water is naaasty.
 
2012-09-12 06:18:30 PM  

TheHighlandHowler: Newburgh, New York, was the first city to use the entire city's population to study fluoride's bad side effects to the rest of the body. And the results were dismal.

After ten years, bone defects, and earlier female menstruation occurred more often in Newburgh's children dosed with sodium fluoride-laced drinking water when compared to the control city of Kingston, NY. (3)

According to Professor Paul Connett, PhD, who teaches environmental chemistry and toxicology at St. Lawrence University in NY, "These results were ignored at the time, but are now being seen as valuable clues to far more serious problems, like accumulation of fluoride in the human pineal gland with a possible lowering of melatonin levels (Luke, 1997, 2001); increased bone fractures in children (Alarcon-Herrera et al., 2001) and possibly increased osteosarcoma (a bone cancer which is frequently fatal) rates in young men (NAS, 1977; NTP, 1990; Hoover, 1991; Cohn 1992; and Mihashi 1996).

Meanwhile, after over 50 years of water fluoridation, many children in Newburgh, New York have more cavities and more fluoride-caused discolored teeth (dental fluorosis) than children in never-fluoridated Kingston, New York, according to a NYS Department of Health study published in the NYS Dental Journal (February 1998, Figure 1, Page 41)

http://thyroid.about.com/b/2005/05/09/should-we-apologize-for-fluorid a tion-not-celebrate-it.htm


Oh Look. We have our first Anti-Fluoridationist of the thread.

CONCLUSIONS:This study demonstrates the continued community effectiveness of water fluoridation and provides support for the extension of this important oral health intervention to populations currently without access to fluoridated water.

Fluoridation of drinking water remains the most effective and socially equitable means of achieving community-wide exposure to the caries prevention effects of fluoride. It is recommended (see also www.nhmrc.gov.au/news/media/rel07/_files/fluoride_flyer.pdf) that water be fluoridated in the target range of 0.6-1.1 mg/l, depending on the climate, to balance reduction of dental caries and occurrence of dental fluorosis.n particular with reference to care in hospital for those following stroke.

Abstract
The oral health of Indigenous children of Canada (First Nations, Inuit and Métis) and the United States (American Indian and Alaska Native) is a major child health issue. This is exemplified by the high prevalence of early childhood caries (ECC) with resulting adverse health effects, as well as high rates and costs of restorative and surgical treatments under general anesthesia. ECC is an infectious disease that is influenced by multiple factors, including socioeconomic determinants, and requires a combination of approaches for improvement. The present statement includes recommendations for oral health preventive and clinical care for young infants and pregnant women by primary health care providers, community-based health promotion initiatives, oral health workforce and access issues, and advocacy for community water fluoridation and fluoride varnish program access. Further community-based research on the epidemiology, prevention, management and microbiology of ECC in Indigenous communities would be beneficial.


It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics to support optimal systemic and topical fluoride as an important public health measure to promote oral health and overall health throughout life. Fluoride is an important element in the mineralization of bone and teeth. The proper use of topical and systemic fluoride has resulted in major reductions in dental caries and its associated disability. Dental caries remains the most prevalent chronic disease in children and affects all age groups of the population. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has named fluoridation of water as one of the 10 most important public health measures of the 21st century. Currently, >72% of the US population that is served by community water systems benefits from water fluoridation. However, only 27 states provide fluoridated water to more than three quarters of the state's residents on public water systems. Fluoride also plays a role in bone health. However, at this time, use of high doses of fluoride for osteoporosis prevention is considered experimental only. Dietetics practitioners should routinely monitor and promote the use of fluorides for all age groups.

This study suggests that the benefits of CWF may be larger than previously believed and that CWF has a lasting improvement in racial/ethnic and economic disparities in oral health.

Abstract
Water fluoridation remains a contentious issue in Canada and many communities choose not to fluoridate their water supply. As of 2007, 45.1% of the Canadian population had access to fluoridated water supplies. The main arguments for and against fluoridation have changed very little over the years, with supporters (including the World Health Organization and Health Canada) citing evidence that shows fluoridation as a safe and effective method of caries prevention, while detractors cite high costs and potential health risks. This article provides an historical overview and a current snapshot of water fluoridation in Canada. It concludes that the ultimate advantage of fluoridation is that it helps everyone in a community, regardless of socioeconomic status.


BUT REMEMBER FOLKS! THERE'S REALLY NO EVIDENCE FOR IT OUT THERE! ITS ALL A SCAM BY THE RAND CORPORATION, THE SAUCER PEOPLE, AND THE EVIL REVERSE VAMPIRES!
 
2012-09-12 06:19:19 PM  

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: I'm relying on this thread to supply me with the US FDA's RDA of pseudo-science and conspiracy theories.


Oh, don't worry. Wait till this gets on the main page. You'll get your total fill of crazy.
 
2012-09-12 06:20:14 PM  

basemetal: Out of curiosity, I wonder what the vaccination rate in Portland is.


Sadly, rather low, but not as low as Ashland, Oregon.

And low and behold, we have a pertussis epidemic in Oregon as well.

I actually know a woman that in one breath said that since her kids are not vaccinated and mine are, so why should I worry about them getting my kids sick, and that there are too many people on the planet anyways.

So she acknowledged she is putting her kids at risk, but that's ok, because if they die, there were too many humans here anyways.
 
2012-09-12 06:21:22 PM  
Ask your dentist. THey will 99 out of 100 times recommend flouridated water.
 
2012-09-12 06:21:58 PM  
Flouride is a good topical treatment. Serves no purpose in drinking water besides bathing the teeth as it passes.
 
2012-09-12 06:23:02 PM  

meat0918: And low and behold, we have a pertussis epidemic in Oregon as well.


Having had pertussis when I was a teenager, I quite honestly support mandatory, forced, if necessary, immunization for it.

/would wish it on my worst enemy, though
 
2012-09-12 06:23:19 PM  

moops: detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: After I moved here and went to the dentist for the first time he said "well, I can see you didn't grow up in Portland" since my teeth didn't look like chiclets. The smiles here could fill a few anthologies of the "Big book of British smiles".

you've also been reading /r/Portland.


Oh You

www.themeparkreview.com

it's been full of nothing but flouride crap and Legalize It threads as of late. Oh and the obligatory, I live in Idaho but I'm looking for somewhere progressive-I'm a part time tattoo artist-my life partner and I would like a 2bdrm-close to public transit-safe neighborhood-500$ a month threads.
 
2012-09-12 06:23:25 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Flouride is a good topical treatment. Serves no purpose in drinking water besides bathing the teeth as it passes.


70 years of overwhelming medical evidence says otherwise.
 
2012-09-12 06:23:30 PM  

Honest Bender: How about you just provide me with water and, if I feel like fluoride is something I'd like to ingest, I'll add it myself.


Really. You're going to just casually go grab yourself a highly dangerous industrial chemistry, run it through your personal million-dollar refining apparatus using your advanced knowledge of engineering chemistry to convert it to the benign form used in water systems, personally dose it at the proper concentration, and then make sure it's mixed proportionally into all your food so the dosage is low and continuous instead of periodic.

I assume then you're going to head off to work by building your own interstate highway system by hand using concrete you reacted from quicklime you hauled from portland or mississippi on your own back and fly ash from your personal steel reactor, then driving over it on a car you constructed yourself out of wood that runs by burning your own farts.
 
2012-09-12 06:23:44 PM  

moops: Two Portland threads in a row! Let's go for a third!


We've had the iphone release thread. Hipster trifecta complete.
 
2012-09-12 06:23:54 PM  

TheHighlandHowler: Newburgh, New York, was the first city to use the entire city's population to study fluoride's bad side effects to the rest of the body. And the results were dismal.

After ten years, bone defects, and earlier female menstruation occurred more often in Newburgh's children dosed with sodium fluoride-laced drinking water when compared to the control city of Kingston, NY. (3)

According to Professor Paul Connett, PhD, who teaches environmental chemistry and toxicology at St. Lawrence University in NY, "These results were ignored at the time, but are now being seen as valuable clues to far more serious problems, like accumulation of fluoride in the human pineal gland with a possible lowering of melatonin levels (Luke, 1997, 2001); increased bone fractures in children (Alarcon-Herrera et al., 2001) and possibly increased osteosarcoma (a bone cancer which is frequently fatal) rates in young men (NAS, 1977; NTP, 1990; Hoover, 1991; Cohn 1992; and Mihashi 1996).

Meanwhile, after over 50 years of water fluoridation, many children in Newburgh, New York have more cavities and more fluoride-caused discolored teeth (dental fluorosis) than children in never-fluoridated Kingston, New York, according to a NYS Department of Health study published in the NYS Dental Journal (February 1998, Figure 1, Page 41)

http://thyroid.about.com/b/2005/05/09/should-we-apologize-for-fluorid a tion-not-celebrate-it.htm


Using Newburgh as the evidence for this is a mistake. Newburgh is a shiathole town filled with shiathole people who I'm not entirely convinced know what toothpaste is.
 
2012-09-12 06:25:37 PM  
I pity those poor Portlandians having their precious bodily fluids both sapped and impurified.
 
2012-09-12 06:26:02 PM  
Fluoride is necessary to power the transmitters that the CIA puts in your teeth to control your thoughts and broadcast their hot lunch menus.
 
2012-09-12 06:26:04 PM  

BronyMedic: HotIgneous Intruder: Flouride is a good topical treatment. Serves no purpose in drinking water besides bathing the teeth as it passes.

70 years of overwhelming medical evidence says otherwise.


Says what? That flouride isn't an effective topical treatment?
Do tell.
Citation please.
 
2012-09-12 06:26:42 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Flouride is a good topical treatment. Serves no purpose in drinking water besides bathing the teeth as it passes.


Yes, that would be the general idea.

What's your point, beyond demonstrating your stunning grasp of the incredibly obvious?

Did you think we were under the misapprehension that it's supposed to get into your teeth through your stomach or something? Because if so, you're an idiot, no one thinks that.
 
2012-09-12 06:26:54 PM  

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: meat0918: And low and behold, we have a pertussis epidemic in Oregon as well.

Having had pertussis when I was a teenager, I quite honestly support mandatory, forced, if necessary, immunization for it.

/would wish it on my worst enemy, though


My wife had pertussis about 10 years ago. For about six months. Brutal.
 
2012-09-12 06:27:03 PM  

Jim_Callahan: Honest Bender: How about you just provide me with water and, if I feel like fluoride is something I'd like to ingest, I'll add it myself.

Really. You're going to just casually go grab yourself a highly dangerous industrial chemistry, run it through your personal million-dollar refining apparatus using your advanced knowledge of engineering chemistry to convert it to the benign form used in water systems, personally dose it at the proper concentration, and then make sure it's mixed proportionally into all your food so the dosage is low and continuous instead of periodic.


Nope. Just plain ol' H2O, please.

I assume then you're going to head off to work by building your own interstate highway system by hand using concrete you reacted from quicklime you hauled from portland or mississippi on your own back and fly ash from your personal steel reactor, then driving over it on a car you constructed yourself out of wood that runs by burning your own farts.

That's a dumb assumption.
 
2012-09-12 06:27:32 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Says what? That flouride isn't an effective topical treatment?
Do tell.
Citation please.


DERP

Holtgneous Intruder:
Serves no purpose in drinking water besides bathing the teeth as it passes.

70 Years of Medical Science, and hundreds of studies publicly visible on PubMed say otherwise. So, Citation Needed.
 
2012-09-12 06:28:43 PM  
i.cdn.turner.com

They are putting the CHEMICAL flouride into YOUR drinking water! AND they think they can whup your ass!
 
2012-09-12 06:28:52 PM  

Rufus Lee King: sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net


Limonene is also used as a pesticide. Limonene is found in citrus fruits.

Are you telling us oranges are poisonous too? Or do you not have a point?
 
2012-09-12 06:29:05 PM  
Seeing as all modern toothpaste is fluoridated I don't really see the point as long as your kids brush their teeth.
 
2012-09-12 06:29:52 PM  

moops: Rufus Lee King: sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net

Limonene is also used as a pesticide. Limonene is found in citrus fruits.

Are you telling us oranges are poisonous too? Or do you not have a point?


Soap is also an awesome insecticide. BAN SOAP!
 
2012-09-12 06:30:21 PM  

Honest Bender: Nope. Just plain ol' H2O, please.


The whole point of fluoridation is to serve as a public health measure for everyone, not just people who can afford the 150 bucks a month to go see their dentist and get a monthly topical fluoridation treatment. Cause, you know, around 55% of the United States population can't afford that.

In properly regulated and managed systems with a low dose - 0.5 to 1.1 mg/L, it poses no risk to anyone. You would literally have to drink over 7 liters a day, at the 1.1mg/L dose, for 30 days, to see any semblance of toxic effect.

But, let me guess. You've got health and dental insurance, right? You got yours, fark everyone else?
 
2012-09-12 06:30:37 PM  

Honest Bender: That's a dumb assumption.


Well, you were assuming that people could reasonably fluoridate their own water.

I was just rolling with the stupid.
 
2012-09-12 06:31:50 PM  
Portland will show some sanity, for once, if they continue to reject flouride pollution in the drinking water.
 
2012-09-12 06:34:45 PM  

BronyMedic: In properly regulated and managed systems with a low dose - 0.5 to 1.1 mg/L, it poses no risk to anyone. You would literally have to drink over 7 liters a day, at the 1.1mg/L dose, for 30 days, to see any semblance of toxic effect.


That's nice. I'd still like to stick to plain water, thanks. As an intelligent, educated man, I'm capable of making my own decisions. Please stop forcing your decisions on me.
 
2012-09-12 06:35:16 PM  

Shazam999: Soap is also an awesome insecticide. BAN SOAP!


Nicotine too!
 
2012-09-12 06:35:20 PM  

BronyMedic: Oh Look. We have our first Anti-Fluoridationist of the thread. ... BUT REMEMBER FOLKS! THERE'S REALLY NO EVIDENCE FOR IT OUT THERE! ITS ALL A SCAM BY THE RAND CORPORATION, THE SAUCER PEOPLE, AND THE EVIL REVERSE VAMPIRES!


So let me ask you this, and I admit, I look like a saucer person and so your comment bothered me.

What is your personal belief concerning the superiority of low carb high fat diets versus high carb low fat diets in terms of lowering obesity?

Since you and TheBeastOfYuccaFlats seem to agree this thread will bring in not just anti-fluoride advocates but people that believe in a whole range of conspiracy theories, am I correct to assume you believe that we should all support water supply fluoride, high carb low fat diets, the dread impact of anthropocentric global warming, and that nothing happened at Roswell? All of these things are the same right? Disbelief in one must mean the person disbelieves all of them.

More seriously, what is your personal belief concerning the superiority of low carb high fat diets versus high carb low fat diets in terms of lowering obesity, and if you happen to think low carb diets might be superior when the scientific consensus and government driven consensus is that high carb diets are better, what is the difference between the scientific consensus supporting low fat diets and the scientific consensus supporting public water supply fluoridation?
 
2012-09-12 06:35:46 PM  

moops: Rufus Lee King: sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net

Limonene is also used as a pesticide. Limonene is found in citrus fruits.

Are you telling us oranges are poisonous too? Or do you not have a point?


I'm surprised you're not more worried about dihydrogen monoxide! That stuff can be LETHAL!
 
2012-09-12 06:35:53 PM  

Jim_Callahan: Honest Bender: That's a dumb assumption.

Well, you were assuming that people could reasonably fluoridate their own water.

I was just rolling with the stupid.


Where did I say people could be reasonably assumed to be capable of fluoridating their own water? Take your time, I'll wait.

/I hear stupid people have poor reading comprehension.
 
2012-09-12 06:38:47 PM  

Honest Bender: BronyMedic: In properly regulated and managed systems with a low dose - 0.5 to 1.1 mg/L, it poses no risk to anyone. You would literally have to drink over 7 liters a day, at the 1.1mg/L dose, for 30 days, to see any semblance of toxic effect.

That's nice. I'd still like to stick to plain water, thanks. As an intelligent, educated man, I'm capable of making my own decisions. Please stop forcing your decisions on me.


Dude, you don't even know how DNS works. You're neither intelligent nor educated. You may have a penis so I guess you pass for a man.
 
2012-09-12 06:39:08 PM  

Jim_Callahan: Honest Bender: How about you just provide me with water and, if I feel like fluoride is something I'd like to ingest, I'll add it myself.

Really. You're going to just casually go grab yourself a highly dangerous industrial chemistry, run it through your personal million-dollar refining apparatus using your advanced knowledge of engineering chemistry to convert it to the benign form used in water systems, personally dose it at the proper concentration, and then make sure it's mixed proportionally into all your food so the dosage is low and continuous instead of periodic.


Why go to all that trouble when you can just go down to the local drugstore and by some sodium fluoride tablets? http://www.fluoraday.com/enCA/
 
2012-09-12 06:39:09 PM  

Baloo Uriza: Portland will show some sanity, for once, if they continue to reject flouride pollution in the drinking water.


The headline is misleading. The people didn't vote for this, Central Committee did. Five wankers on the City Council. So much for Democracy.
 
2012-09-12 06:39:09 PM  
Can anyone tell me what Jenny McCarthy thinks about this issue? Because that's the way I would vote.
 
2012-09-12 06:40:42 PM  

Honest Bender: That's nice. I'd still like to stick to plain water, thanks. As an intelligent, educated man, I'm capable of making my own decisions. Please stop forcing your decisions on me.


Good for you. Go dig a well and pump your own water. Or, barring that, I have the perfect place for you.

www.state.gov

Meanwhile, the rest of us will enjoy living in a society where certain health measures are taken for the betterment of everyone - like public water fluoridation, mass vaccination, and inspections of food and drugs - that pose no or little, reasonable risks to others.

RoyBatty: What is your personal belief concerning the superiority of low carb high fat diets versus high carb low fat diets in terms of lowering obesity?

Since you and TheBeastOfYuccaFlats seem to agree this thread will bring in not just anti-fluoride advocates but people that believe in a whole range of conspiracy theories, am I correct to assume you believe that we should all support water supply fluoride, high carb low fat diets, the dread impact of anthropocentric global warming, and that nothing happened at Roswell? All of these things are the same right? Disbelief in one must mean the person disbelieves all of them.

More seriously, what is your personal belief concerning the superiority of low carb high fat diets versus high carb low fat diets in terms of lowering obesity, and if you happen to think low carb diets might be superior when the scientific consensus and government driven consensus is that high carb diets are better, what is the difference between the scientific consensus supporting low fat diets and the scientific consensus supporting public water supply fluoridation?


Frankly, I wouldn't be qualified to answer that. Unlike Fluoridation of Public Water, or Anti-Vaccination, I haven't really examined the evidence supporting either of those diets. I do know, based on the nutrition classes I have taken at the undergrad level, that diet is something that needs to be highly individualized to each person, and that both "fad diets", and attempting to fit someone into the mold of a specific food choice while ignoring factors such as their basil metabolism and base metabolic requirements, activity level, and health conditions such as Heart Disease, Pulmonary Issues, or Cancer , is setting someone up for failure in terms of treating obesity.

I do know, however, that claiming specific diets will cure X disease like Cancer or Heart Failure, alone, is bunk.
 
2012-09-12 06:41:15 PM  
img155.imageshack.us
 
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