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(Daily Mail)   Twenty-three years after the Hillsborough disaster, Liverpool FC fans are cleared from wrongdoing, with the HIP finding, in part, that 116 statements were "amended to remove or alter comments unfavourable to SYP"   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 54
    More: Hero, SYP, Hillsborough, Liverpool, Sheffield Wednesday, Stanley Park, Nottingham Forest, FA Cup Semi-finals, Joey Barton  
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1060 clicks; posted to Sports » on 12 Sep 2012 at 3:38 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-12 03:47:44 PM
TL:DR version: The inept police bungled the crowd control, causing 95 deaths on the day and one several years later, lied about its own shortcomings and went out of its way to tarnish the victims.

YNWA
 
2012-09-12 03:48:13 PM
If I knew what those acronyms were, I might understand the headline.
 
2012-09-12 03:49:38 PM
SYP = South Yorkshire Police, not sure about HIP
 
2012-09-12 03:51:58 PM

The Third Man: SYP = South Yorkshire Police, not sure about HIP


Hillsborough Independent Panel.
 
2012-09-12 03:58:41 PM
JFT96
 
2012-09-12 04:02:45 PM

FrancoFile: If I knew what those acronyms were, I might understand the headline.


IIKWTAW, IMUTH
 
2012-09-12 04:07:30 PM
JFT96.

better 23 years late than never.

/YNWA
 
2012-09-12 04:10:34 PM

socalnewwaver: better 23 years late than never.


 
 
2012-09-12 04:10:51 PM
While the Hillsborough disaster has gotten a lot press over the years, I still think it pales in comparison to the Bradford City stadium fire a few years earlier. I tear up every time I decided to watch it on youtube.
 
2012-09-12 04:16:23 PM
Well, if anyone would know about blaming the fans, it's the Daily Fail.
 
2012-09-12 04:18:34 PM

DemoKnite: While the Hillsborough disaster has gotten a lot press over the years, I still think it pales in comparison to the Bradford City stadium fire a few years earlier.


with all due respect to the 56 who lost their life in the bradford fire, the hillsborough disaster cost more lives, and had the fans themselves directly and inappropriately blamed for the tragedy.

i fail to see how that "pales in comparison".

unless you're simply referring to the drama of watching the fire on tv.
 
2012-09-12 04:24:49 PM
And The Sun was there. Why am I not surprised?
 
2012-09-12 04:27:52 PM
So how did they manage to clean up all the in-stadium fighting? You don't hear about that happening in England anymore.
 
2012-09-12 04:28:00 PM
Hell of a statement by David Cameron. 
 
2012-09-12 04:29:19 PM
jeez, how many now are back to life?
Horrible and such a sad day for Football., but I'm glad this wound happen again.
 
2012-09-12 04:36:58 PM

Decillion: So how did they manage to clean up all the in-stadium fighting? You don't hear about that happening in England anymore.


By making all seating non-bench seating (as in, what one sees in modern American NFL/MLB stadiums), as opposed to general-admission bench seating as in days of old, combined with pricing the seats *just* out of the range of most of the dirt-poor hooligans that farked over the reputation of English footie for decades, as well as *much* better pre-entry policing and screening, to keep out the weapons and such.
 
2012-09-12 04:37:32 PM

kmmontandon: Well, if anyone would know about blaming the fans, it's the Daily Fail.


Ever wonder why sales of The Sun have been very bad in Liverpool the last 23 years........?

No forgiveness for Kelvin MacKenzie
 
2012-09-12 04:38:52 PM

socalnewwaver: DemoKnite: While the Hillsborough disaster has gotten a lot press over the years, I still think it pales in comparison to the Bradford City stadium fire a few years earlier.

with all due respect to the 56 who lost their life in the bradford fire, the hillsborough disaster cost more lives, and had the fans themselves directly and inappropriately blamed for the tragedy.

i fail to see how that "pales in comparison".

unless you're simply referring to the drama of watching the fire on tv.


I agree and the victims of the fire did not have the right wing tabloids adding insult to injury by making up stories that victims that escaped death were urinating on the dying and robbing them and assaulting the police and the ambulance crews and holding them back -- but I could be wrong the right wing tabloids could have done that at the fire as well
 
2012-09-12 04:49:29 PM

MasterSFV: kmmontandon: Well, if anyone would know about blaming the fans, it's the Daily Fail.

Ever wonder why sales of The Sun have been very bad in Liverpool the last 23 years........?

No forgiveness for Kelvin MacKenzie


Family members of the 96 said as much today.

Irresponsible security, irresponsible investigative work and irresponsible journalism. And it took 23 years to set the record straight.

May none of this ever happen again. Anywhere.

YNWA
JFT96
 
2012-09-12 04:49:35 PM

socalnewwaver: DemoKnite: While the Hillsborough disaster has gotten a lot press over the years, I still think it pales in comparison to the Bradford City stadium fire a few years earlier.

with all due respect to the 56 who lost their life in the bradford fire, the hillsborough disaster cost more lives, and had the fans themselves directly and inappropriately blamed for the tragedy.

i fail to see how that "pales in comparison".

unless you're simply referring to the drama of watching the fire on tv.


Losing one life at a football match is awful, but really it was the culture at the time. The first thing you thought about UK football in the 80s was hooliganism. Britons were banned from attending many international matches at that time and there was the similar Ibrox disaster before that. Considering the working class nature of fans at the time, standing room only ticketing, and hooliganism that was rampant, it was easy to pin blame on the people instead of the police. Shame it took all this time for it to be cleared.
Bradford and Hillsborough both played out on TV (Bradford wasn't live I dont believe), but lets be honest, it's Bradford City and not Liverpool. The third division and not the first. As an empathetic human being, seeing people literally on fire is a bit harder to stomach than seeing people crawling over fences and being lifted into the second level. Thats why, in my opinion, it pales in comparison. You can continue to sing "youll never walk alone" in your Gerrard jersey while chanting "justice for the 96" and I wont hold it against you. It's your opinion.
 
2012-09-12 04:50:03 PM
SGS
 
2012-09-12 05:07:27 PM

ClavellBCMI: Decillion: So how did they manage to clean up all the in-stadium fighting? You don't hear about that happening in England anymore.

By making all seating non-bench seating (as in, what one sees in modern American NFL/MLB stadiums), as opposed to general-admission bench seating as in days of old, combined with pricing the seats *just* out of the range of most of the dirt-poor hooligans that farked over the reputation of English footie for decades, as well as *much* better pre-entry policing and screening, to keep out the weapons and such.


there was no bench seating. Terraces, like those at Hillsborough, were stepped concrete banks, split into pens with metal fences (with the rather lovely touch of inward facing metal overhangs so people couldn't climb up and onto the pitch). The two central pens had a combined capacity of 1600, but had well over 2200 people in them. Then the police opened an exit gate and let 2000 more people in, largely due to the police commander thinking that a riot was going to break out outside the ground. Due to a clusterfark in the entrance to the terrance, those 2000 people were herded into those same, already full to capacity pens down a ridiculously sloped ramp. There's also the small footnote in the report that the authorities were concerned about Hillsborough's safety at least two years before that day, and that there had been reports of crushes in the stadium in 1988.

This probably explains in better

In short, this disaster was going to happen sooner rather than later at a football match in England and one of the truly mindnumbing things is that it took the deaths of 96 people to fundamentally change how the game is policed, how fans are treated, etc. It's a disgrace
 
2012-09-12 05:08:43 PM

DemoKnite: socalnewwaver: DemoKnite: While the Hillsborough disaster has gotten a lot press over the years, I still think it pales in comparison to the Bradford City stadium fire a few years earlier.

with all due respect to the 56 who lost their life in the bradford fire, the hillsborough disaster cost more lives, and had the fans themselves directly and inappropriately blamed for the tragedy.

i fail to see how that "pales in comparison".

unless you're simply referring to the drama of watching the fire on tv.

Losing one life at a football match is awful, but really it was the culture at the time. The first thing you thought about UK football in the 80s was hooliganism. Britons were banned from attending many international matches at that time and there was the similar Ibrox disaster before that. Considering the working class nature of fans at the time, standing room only ticketing, and hooliganism that was rampant, it was easy to pin blame on the people instead of the police. Shame it took all this time for it to be cleared.
Bradford and Hillsborough both played out on TV (Bradford wasn't live I dont believe), but lets be honest, it's Bradford City and not Liverpool. The third division and not the first. As an empathetic human being, seeing people literally on fire is a bit harder to stomach than seeing people crawling over fences and being lifted into the second level. Thats why, in my opinion, it pales in comparison. You can continue to sing "youll never walk alone" in your Gerrard jersey while chanting "justice for the 96" and I wont hold it against you. It's your opinion.


It's a legitimate argument. It's something I won't contest.

/Bearing in mind that I am a newer LFC supporter, relatively speaking
//But even if I wasn't, I have no tolerance for grave injustices and such a gross lack of professionalism like Hillsborough and the 23 yrs since.
 
2012-09-12 05:10:26 PM

FrancoFile: If I knew what those acronyms were, I might understand the headline.


The only acronym that's relevant here is CYA.
 
2012-09-12 05:19:36 PM
Not to belabor my point...but I just asked my English wife (who is from nowhere near Bradford or Liverpool and does not like football) if she could explain the Hillsborough disaster and she knew that 96 people died in a crush at Sheffield "because they didnt start the game on time or something like that" and because they do a tribute and news story every year. She was not at all familiar with the subsequent inquiry and what the true meaning of "justice for the 96" is. She is 36 years old. I asked her about the Bradford city fire and she didnt have a clue. I showed here the youtube video and she had a tear running down her face. Maybe its the distress in the announcers voice that does it.
 
2012-09-12 05:20:19 PM

DemoKnite: While the Hillsborough disaster has gotten a lot press over the years, I still think it pales in comparison to the Bradford City stadium fire a few years earlier. I tear up every time I decided to watch it on youtube.


WTF, farking Brits clapping and singing their club song as bodies are being pulled out of the conflagration.
 
2012-09-12 05:21:01 PM
About friggin' time.

Thanks, Bish and panel.

Well done, Hillsborough Family Support Group et al.
 
2012-09-12 05:21:14 PM

DemoKnite: As an empathetic human being, seeing people literally on fire is a bit harder to stomach than seeing people crawling over fences and being lifted into the second level.


as an empathetic human being, i would never attempt to - even mistakenly - minimize the massive loss of human life by claiming one disaster "pales in comparision" to another.

DemoKnite: You can continue to sing "youll never walk alone" in your Gerrard jersey while chanting "justice for the 96" and I wont hold it against you


quite the benevolent spirit you have there, mate.

/not sure if you were trying to be a douche, or just accidentally came across that way
 
2012-09-12 05:27:23 PM
And finally, 23 years late, there starts to be a semblance of justice for the Hillsborough 96.

/not the hugest football fan in the world, but really do think the victims of the crush got screwed when it was pretty much a monumental farkup of crowd control
//glad it's getting sorted out
///still kind of amazed this sort of tragedy on this scale hasn't occurred at general-admission concerts in the US (at least since the Who disaster, which was smaller in scale but did involve a crush from failure of crowd control)
 
2012-09-12 05:55:50 PM
While we're on the topic of stadium disasters, what exactly happened at Heysel? I see the video, but I still don't fully understand what happened?
 
2012-09-12 06:11:42 PM

drunk_bouncnbaloruber: While we're on the topic of stadium disasters, what exactly happened at Heysel? I see the video, but I still don't fully understand what happened?


Wikipedia describes it pretty well I think:

At approximately 7 p.m. local time, an hour before kick-off, the trouble started.[8] The Liverpool and Juventus supporters in sections Y and Z stood merely yards apart. The boundary between the two was marked by temporary chain link fencing and a central thinly policed no-man's land.[9] Missiles began to be thrown across the divide. Fans were able to pick up stones from the terraces beneath them.
As kick-off approached, the throwing became more intense. A group of Liverpool fans moved towards the side perimeter wall, near to the corner flag. Some tried to climb over the wall to escape. Many escaped; however, the wall could not withstand the force of the fleeing Juventus supporters and collapsed.
It was at this point that the majority of the deaths occurred - 39 people died, and a further 600 were injured.[9][10] Bodies were carried away on sections of iron fencing and laid in piles outside, covered with giant football flags. As police and medical helicopters flew in, the down-draught blew away the modest coverings.
 
2012-09-12 06:22:07 PM

DemoKnite: Not to belabor my point...but I just asked my English wife (who is from nowhere near Bradford or Liverpool and does not like football) if she could explain the Hillsborough disaster and she knew that 96 people died in a crush at Sheffield "because they didnt start the game on time or something like that" and because they do a tribute and news story every year. She was not at all familiar with the subsequent inquiry and what the true meaning of "justice for the 96" is. She is 36 years old. I asked her about the Bradford city fire and she didnt have a clue. I showed here the youtube video and she had a tear running down her face. Maybe its the distress in the announcers voice that does it.


Yet we on FARK like to joke about Great White and the Station nightclub fire.

You'll never walk alone if you're once bitten twice shy.
 
2012-09-12 06:46:35 PM

cptrios: drunk_bouncnbaloruber: While we're on the topic of stadium disasters, what exactly happened at Heysel? I see the video, but I still don't fully understand what happened?

Wikipedia describes it pretty well I think:

At approximately 7 p.m. local time, an hour before kick-off, the trouble started.[8] The Liverpool and Juventus supporters in sections Y and Z stood merely yards apart. The boundary between the two was marked by temporary chain link fencing and a central thinly policed no-man's land.[9] Missiles began to be thrown across the divide. Fans were able to pick up stones from the terraces beneath them.
As kick-off approached, the throwing became more intense. A group of Liverpool fans moved towards the side perimeter wall, near to the corner flag. Some tried to climb over the wall to escape. Many escaped; however, the wall could not withstand the force of the fleeing Juventus supporters and collapsed.
It was at this point that the majority of the deaths occurred - 39 people died, and a further 600 were injured.[9][10] Bodies were carried away on sections of iron fencing and laid in piles outside, covered with giant football flags. As police and medical helicopters flew in, the down-draught blew away the modest coverings.


Yeah, that's a case where it was pretty clear that Liverpool supporters were at fault for causing that.

There's an article on ESPNFC up now where it points out that Heysel probably helped create the myth that Liverpool supporters caused Hillsborough to happen. It's worth a read.
 
2012-09-12 08:10:10 PM
i132.photobucket.com

still aint selling shiat on Merseyside, sorry Rupert
 
2012-09-12 09:11:39 PM
South Yorkshire Mass Murderer
How can you sleep at night?
 
2012-09-12 09:12:05 PM
I'm not really clear on just how "independent" this panel is exactly. This Phil Scranton guy is from Liverpool. So is Peter Sissions. You got the Bishop of Liverpool even. Katy Jones produced a documentary on the disaster. And then there's this lawyer who specializes in pursuing police abuse and neglect cases. It seems he might be a bit biased to finding the police culpable. So that's five people on a panel of nine who would seem to be less than independent in this matter.
 
2012-09-12 09:50:51 PM

Foxxinnia: I'm not really clear on just how "independent" this panel is exactly. This Phil Scranton guy is from Liverpool. So is Peter Sissions. You got the Bishop of Liverpool even. Katy Jones produced a documentary on the disaster. And then there's this lawyer who specializes in pursuing police abuse and neglect cases. It seems he might be a bit biased to finding the police culpable. So that's five people on a panel of nine who would seem to be less than independent in this matter.


Shutup.
 
2012-09-12 11:13:34 PM
The part on the Bradford Fire that just devastates me is when the poor man is a literal walking human torch and the desperate police and supporters are tying to put him out. The announcer says something like "He'd come to watch the football". Absolutely gut wrenching.

This was a good step forward for justice for the 96.

YNWA
 
2012-09-12 11:46:46 PM
I've been a huge Everton supporter since 1980, but on one of my trips to England, I went to Liverpool so I could pay my respects at the memorial at Anfield.

farm4.static.flickr.com

Within seconds I was weeping uncontrollably, for days after I would just burst in to tears if I thought about it. What blew me away is how young so many of the victims were. Plus, I flashed on some very scary situations at general admission concerts I'd been too, the worst being certain that I going to be crushed to death at a Clash concert because I was on the barrier in the middle and when the show started, everyone in back of me started surging forward. Thank you big burly security guard who pulled me up over the barrier, whoever you are.

DemoKnite: Losing one life at a football match is awful, but really it was the culture at the time. The first thing you thought about UK football in the 80s was hooliganism. Britons were banned from attending many international matches at that time and there was the similar Ibrox disaster before that.

When I told my parents that I was going to a couple of Everton matches in England (this was the late 90's), they completely freaked out, I had to prove to them that it wasn't like the 70's and 80's any more before they calmed down.

drunk_bouncnbaloruber: While we're on the topic of stadium disasters, what exactly happened at Heysel? I see the video, but I still don't fully understand what happened?

The final never should have taken place at that stadium, it was a crumbling shiatehole to begin with. I know some football fans miss the atmosphere at matches and the the crowd energy since it's gone all-seating in England, but I'd never go to a standing-only match.

sultanofsnow.files.wordpress.com

One side note of the Heysel disaster is that because of it, English teams were banned from Europe for years. Heyesel was in May, 1985, Everton had won the league in the 1984-85 but they were banned from the European Cup (as the Champions League was called then). The won the league again in 1986-87 and finished second in 1985-86 but all for naught. A lot of Toffees fans think they'd have won the European Cup in 1984-85 but how different would Everton history had been if they had?

/RIP the 96
 
2012-09-13 05:23:12 AM

Bolo78: The part on the Bradford Fire that just devastates me is when the poor man is a literal walking human torch and the desperate police and supporters are tying to put him out. The announcer says something like "He'd come to watch the football". Absolutely gut wrenching.

This was a good step forward for justice for the 96.

YNWA


I'm from Bradford. I was playing cricket that day, and we all saw the smoke. One lad said "It looks like it's coming from Valley Parade". How right he was. At school the following Monday, we heard some pretty gruesome stories, though the two or three people in my class who went all survived, thankfully.

As a result of the fire, Bradford Royal Infirmary became a leading burns treatment centre. Might still be.
 
2012-09-13 06:22:44 AM

sloughtown4ever: there was no bench seating. Terraces, like those at Hillsborough, were stepped concrete banks, split into pens with metal fences (with the rather lovely touch of inward facing metal overhangs so people couldn't climb up and onto the pitch). The two central pens had a combined capacity of 1600, but had well over 2200 people in them. Then the police opened an exit gate and let 2000 more people in, largely due to the police commander thinking that a riot was going to break out outside the ground. Due to a clusterfark in the entrance to the terrance, those 2000 people were herded into those same, already full to capacity pens down a ridiculously sloped ramp. There's also the small footnote in the report that the authorities were concerned about Hillsborough's safety at least two years before that day, and that there had been reports of crushes in the stadium in 1988.


This.

I was on the that very terrace to watch Leeds United play Coventry at Hillsborough in 1987. Watching the events two years on brought it disturbingly close to home how that could have easily been me being pulled from that terrace.

Hillsborough, as were many stadia at the time, was a death trap. The authorities knew it, the FA knew it, Sheffield Wednesday knew it, yet nothing was done. Perhaps because there was no desire to change - in the eyes of the police and the government at the time, if you were a football fan, you were a hooligan. You were therefore treat as a hooligan and, as South Yorkshire Police clearly thought, you could be blamed as one too.

For all that people decry "the modern game" and the influence of TV money, we can be thankful that a disaster like Hillsborough or Valley Parade (my current roomate was a Bradford supporter at Valley Parade on the day of the fire) could never happen again. With a new attitude in policing, stewarding, stadium design (it's unthinkable today that stands were built from wood) and management, the game is a much better place for a supporter. Sure, ticket prices and television subscriptions have increased, but if paying an extra £15-£20 is the price to know that I'll be coming back home from the match alive, then it's a price I'm comfortable to pay.
 
2012-09-13 07:29:04 AM

stickymichael: For all that people decry "the modern game" and the influence of TV money, we can be thankful that a disaster like Hillsborough or Valley Parade (my current roomate was a Bradford supporter at Valley Parade on the day of the fire) could never happen again. With a new attitude in policing, stewarding, stadium design (it's unthinkable today that stands were built from wood) and management, the game is a much better place for a support ...


Bradford City supporters living with Leeds United supporters!? Isn't that a sign of the coming apocalypse?

;)
 
2012-09-13 08:11:26 AM

No Catchy Nickname: stickymichael: For all that people decry "the modern game" and the influence of TV money, we can be thankful that a disaster like Hillsborough or Valley Parade (my current roomate was a Bradford supporter at Valley Parade on the day of the fire) could never happen again. With a new attitude in policing, stewarding, stadium design (it's unthinkable today that stands were built from wood) and management, the game is a much better place for a support ...

Bradford City supporters living with Leeds United supporters!? Isn't that a sign of the coming apocalypse?

;)


It gets worse - the other roommate was a Huddersfield Town fan,

We soon got rid of him ;)
 
2012-09-13 08:47:45 AM
Wow. Glad to finally hear that.
 
2012-09-13 09:52:56 AM

stickymichael: No Catchy Nickname: stickymichael: For all that people decry "the modern game" and the influence of TV money, we can be thankful that a disaster like Hillsborough or Valley Parade (my current roomate was a Bradford supporter at Valley Parade on the day of the fire) could never happen again. With a new attitude in policing, stewarding, stadium design (it's unthinkable today that stands were built from wood) and management, the game is a much better place for a support ...

Bradford City supporters living with Leeds United supporters!? Isn't that a sign of the coming apocalypse?

;)

It gets worse - the other roommate was a Huddersfield Town fan,

We soon got rid of him ;)


Blimey, I'm surprised YTV didn't pick you up for some local reality TV show.


/last football game I saw (few years ago now) was BFC vs Huddersfield. It was billed as "The Battle for West Yorkshire Hegemony". All very well, as long as you ignored the fact that Leeds were in the division above.
 
2012-09-13 01:51:26 PM
Now if they'll just pardon Dr. H. H. Crippen. Come on, it's been 100 years and his wife was alive in Brooklyn, USA AFTER he murdered her in England.
 
2012-09-13 02:15:57 PM

sephjnr: TL:DR version: The inept police bungled the crowd control, causing 95 deaths on the day and one several years later, lied about its own shortcomings and went out of its way to tarnish the victims.

YNWA


Pretty much. S. Yorkshire Police are now culpable of making a potentially disastrous situation into a disastrous situation. Then covering up (even hours afterward) so that they pinned the blame on Liverpool supporters; using what had happened in Heysel as their cover for the events of Hillsborough.

I hope that those responsible for this dark day be held fully accountable for this. The Sun IMHO should just end publication all together; this was just icing on the cake.

Langston: Hell of a statement by David Cameron.


This; considering this happened during the reign of one of his predecessors (when Thatcher, as leader of the Tories, was PM).

It'll be an awfully emotional scene at Anfield for the next home game. (looks at the schedule) Wow, ManU?! Yikes! Sir Alex isn't gonna enjoy heading to Anfield this year. That game might have the feel of a CL semifinal.
 
2012-09-13 02:18:14 PM

DemoKnite: While the Hillsborough disaster has gotten a lot press over the years, I still think it pales in comparison to the Bradford City stadium fire a few years earlier. I tear up every time I decided to watch it on youtube.


Apples and Oranges. Both truly tragic, don't get me wrong.
 
2012-09-13 02:21:30 PM

Foxxinnia: I'm not really clear on just how "independent" this panel is exactly. This Phil Scranton guy is from Liverpool. So is Peter Sissions. You got the Bishop of Liverpool even. Katy Jones produced a documentary on the disaster. And then there's this lawyer who specializes in pursuing police abuse and neglect cases. It seems he might be a bit biased to finding the police culpable. So that's five people on a panel of nine who would seem to be less than independent in this matter.


As an Arsenal fan I'll say the following to you: YOU REALLY GOING TO GO HERE WITH THAT?! REALLY?!

Considering the new information shows that the events at Hillsborough during and afterward were a complete and total FUBAR by the South Yorkshire Police, you really have no standing here.
 
2012-09-13 02:23:27 PM

stickymichael: No Catchy Nickname: stickymichael: For all that people decry "the modern game" and the influence of TV money, we can be thankful that a disaster like Hillsborough or Valley Parade (my current roomate was a Bradford supporter at Valley Parade on the day of the fire) could never happen again. With a new attitude in policing, stewarding, stadium design (it's unthinkable today that stands were built from wood) and management, the game is a much better place for a support ...

Bradford City supporters living with Leeds United supporters!? Isn't that a sign of the coming apocalypse?

;)

It gets worse - the other roommate was a Huddersfield Town fan,

We soon got rid of him ;)


Oy! Wow...that's...WOW!
 
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