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(The American Spectator)   "If a low budget film by a fringe Florida pastor carries more weight in the Muslim world than the words and deeds of the President of the United States [...] it also tells me these efforts to engage the Muslim world are a monumental waste of time"   (spectator.org) divider line 306
    More: Asinine, US President, muslims, Muslim world, waste of time  
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2881 clicks; posted to Politics » on 12 Sep 2012 at 1:56 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-12 11:28:00 AM  
"Kids, you've tried your best, and you've failed miserably. The lesson is: never try."
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-09-12 11:32:41 AM  
It tells me that religious fundamentalists are dangerous morons, and not just the Muslim ones.
 
2012-09-12 11:33:25 AM  

hillbillypharmacist: "Kids, you've tried your best, and you've failed miserably. The lesson is: never try."

 
2012-09-12 11:35:36 AM  

hillbillypharmacist: "Kids, you've tried your best, and you've failed miserably. The lesson is: never try."


It actually isn't a completely invalid point for a change. If these people take that moron seriously, we're never going to get anywhere because there are plenty of people just as dumb as Terry Jones in this country, and they are more than happy to burn Korans while calling for a Christian Theocracy. It's also worth noting that these people have significant power and elect representatives to this country at the national level. Well, maybe not the book burning types, but the Theocracy types.

As long as diplomatic inroads are derailed by these idiots in our country, there is going to be a lot of backsteps in the Middle East.

Of course, as you say, these morons think then the solution is to stop trying, probably because they are the Theocrats. I prefer we continue to try.
 
2012-09-12 11:41:27 AM  

vpb: It tells me that religious fundamentalists are dangerous morons, and not just the Muslim ones.

 
2012-09-12 11:44:44 AM  
It is my understanding that Terry Jones didn't make the film, only promoted it.

/Look at me, nitpicking again.
 
2012-09-12 11:46:53 AM  
For as much as I'd like to divest from these countries entirely, it's simply not realistic in today's world. It's an ugly situation we can't run away from. Plus, it allows for environments where truly evil (not just ignorant) people can organize and flourish and become genuine threats instead of regrettable nuisances.

Heavy is the head that wears the crown.
 
2012-09-12 11:48:56 AM  

Aarontology: vpb: It tells me that religious fundamentalists are dangerous morons, and not just the Muslim ones.

 
2012-09-12 11:53:35 AM  

vpb: It tells me that religious fundamentalists are dangerous morons, and not just the Muslim ones.


www.sanduskyregister.com

yup
 
2012-09-12 11:59:08 AM  
As I said in the redlit thread, it's my sense that in heavily authoritarian countries, the population doesn't understand that, unlike in their own countries, there is a difference between the Government/Rulers and media producers and that the media producers aren't responsible to the Government. The Libyan mob probably thought that, by attacking the embassy, they were hitting back at the people that they felt wronged them, not knowing that they were really pissed at some anonymous a-hole about whom the US Government probably knew diddly/squat.

/You can substitute "religious institutions" for "media producers" and be accurate as well.
 
2012-09-12 12:08:17 PM  

NowhereMon: vpb: It tells me that religious fundamentalists are dangerous morons, and not just the Muslim ones.

[www.sanduskyregister.com image 850x538]

yup


That guy is an asshole, but he hasn't trashed any embassies or killed any diplomats. The whole point of these attacks were that they were offended by some movie that 99.9% of the population of this country had never heard of before this. One that Pastor Terry is promoting, but he did not have any part in making the film itself, BTW. It's just a silly movie, and maybe it attacks Islam, but so what? And maybe Pastor Terry is a horrible person who spreads narrow-minded ideas, but again, so what? We don't have a First Amendment to protect people from saying things that are popular. It's when people have unpopular ideas that we need to be vigilant. And I think there's a bit of false equivalency by comparing American fundamentalist Christians to this. How many riots and deaths resulted from the protests when "The Last Temptation of Christ" came out? Did anyone kill a Greek diplomat in response? (Nikos Kazantzakis wrote the book. It's quite good.) If you want to silence a critic of Islam, even if his criticisms are misguided or just plain wrong, that's precisely what those perpetuating this violence want you to do. When your first thought is, "Wow, we really need to do something about people saying this that anger those Muslim extremists," that is the exact response they are trying to condition you to respond with.
 
2012-09-12 12:21:43 PM  

King Something: Aarontology: vpb: It tells me that religious fundamentalists are dangerous morons, and not just the Muslim ones.


Also, never mind that there were LIBYAN civilians that tried to help that ambassador.
 
2012-09-12 12:26:03 PM  

vpb: It tells me that religious fundamentalists are dangerous morons, and not just the Muslim ones.


/can't negotiate with people who have imaginary friends.
 
2012-09-12 12:28:20 PM  

Nabb1: NowhereMon: vpb: It tells me that religious fundamentalists are dangerous morons, and not just the Muslim ones.

[www.sanduskyregister.com image 850x538]

yup

That guy is an asshole, but he hasn't trashed any embassies or killed any diplomats. The whole point of these attacks were that they were offended by some movie that 99.9% of the population of this country had never heard of before this. One that Pastor Terry is promoting, but he did not have any part in making the film itself, BTW. It's just a silly movie, and maybe it attacks Islam, but so what? And maybe Pastor Terry is a horrible person who spreads narrow-minded ideas, but again, so what? We don't have a First Amendment to protect people from saying things that are popular. It's when people have unpopular ideas that we need to be vigilant. And I think there's a bit of false equivalency by comparing American fundamentalist Christians to this. How many riots and deaths resulted from the protests when "The Last Temptation of Christ" came out? Did anyone kill a Greek diplomat in response? (Nikos Kazantzakis wrote the book. It's quite good.) If you want to silence a critic of Islam, even if his criticisms are misguided or just plain wrong, that's precisely what those perpetuating this violence want you to do. When your first thought is, "Wow, we really need to do something about people saying this that anger those Muslim extremists," that is the exact response they are trying to condition you to respond with.


Doing something that you know will incite violence and even death, is just as bad as actually causing violence or death. You can't just walk away from that responsibility. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should; with the right to free speech comes the responsibility to hopefully exercise that right in a productive way. The state can't and probably shouldn't do anything about that but that doesn't absolve this asshole's responsibility here.
 
2012-09-12 12:35:10 PM  

NowhereMon: Doing something that you know will incite violence and even death, is just as bad as actually causing violence or death. You can't just walk away from that responsibility. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should; with the right to free speech comes the responsibility to hopefully exercise that right in a productive way. The state can't and probably shouldn't do anything about that but that doesn't absolve this asshole's responsibility here.


One of the rare cases in which both sides actually ARE bad.
 
2012-09-12 12:50:05 PM  

NowhereMon: Doing something that you know will incite violence and even death, is just as bad as actually causing violence or death. You can't just walk away from that responsibility. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should; with the right to free speech comes the responsibility to hopefully exercise that right in a productive way. The state can't and probably shouldn't do anything about that but that doesn't absolve this asshole's responsibility here.


I don't see how you can equate making that movie with responsibility. It's too tenuous. We all know that there are those in the Muslim world who respond with violence when they feel insulted, or even when someone draws a cartoon caricature of Mohammed. Does that mean any criticism of Islam is potentially immoral? Does this mean we should feel the need to keep our mouths shut for fear of retribution? That's giving in to barbarity. That's nothing more than appeasement. Civilized societies are able to discuss such matters in a peaceable manner. We are all familiar with Pastor Terry and his ilk, and most of us ridicule him, reject his ideas, and move on. As it should be.
 
2012-09-12 01:58:58 PM  
People can be arseholes to other peoples' cultures and people can be violent arseholes on innocents. The world isn't a happy place.
 
2012-09-12 01:59:58 PM  
They probably just look to the American people for how they should treat the President of the United States. Which is why, even when President Bush was in Office, I treated him with respect.
 
2012-09-12 02:00:28 PM  

Nabb1: That guy is an asshole, but he hasn't trashed any embassies or killed any diplomats.


He did, however, intentionally and with malice, style his mustache like that.
 
2012-09-12 02:01:10 PM  
correlation something something causation ......


Why not take it at face value and see the embassy event for what it was....Muslims celebrating the murder of 3k Americans 11 years ago?
 
2012-09-12 02:01:51 PM  
This is the film in question, apparently it was produced by some real estate agent.
The pastor from Florida endorsed the film it was'nt "by" him..

Muhammad Movie Trailer
 
2012-09-12 02:02:20 PM  
So you should always judge a nation by its fringe nutbags? The author hasn't thought his clever point all the way through.
 
2012-09-12 02:02:48 PM  

vpb: It tells me that religious fundamentalists are dangerous morons, and not just the Muslim ones.


hillbillypharmacist: "Kids, you've tried your best, and you've failed miserably. The lesson is: never try."


These
 
2012-09-12 02:03:56 PM  

Nabb1: NowhereMon: vpb: It tells me that religious fundamentalists are dangerous morons, and not just the Muslim ones.

[www.sanduskyregister.com image 850x538]

yup

That guy is an asshole, but he hasn't trashed any embassies or killed any diplomats. The whole point of these attacks were that they were offended by some movie that 99.9% of the population of this country had never heard of before this. One that Pastor Terry is promoting, but he did not have any part in making the film itself, BTW. It's just a silly movie, and maybe it attacks Islam, but so what? And maybe Pastor Terry is a horrible person who spreads narrow-minded ideas, but again, so what? We don't have a First Amendment to protect people from saying things that are popular. It's when people have unpopular ideas that we need to be vigilant. And I think there's a bit of false equivalency by comparing American fundamentalist Christians to this. How many riots and deaths resulted from the protests when "The Last Temptation of Christ" came out? Did anyone kill a Greek diplomat in response? (Nikos Kazantzakis wrote the book. It's quite good.) If you want to silence a critic of Islam, even if his criticisms are misguided or just plain wrong, that's precisely what those perpetuating this violence want you to do. When your first thought is, "Wow, we really need to do something about people saying this that anger those Muslim extremists," that is the exact response they are trying to condition you to respond with.


well said. agreed all around
 
2012-09-12 02:04:04 PM  

GAT_00: hillbillypharmacist: "Kids, you've tried your best, and you've failed miserably. The lesson is: never try."

It actually isn't a completely invalid point for a change. If these people take that moron seriously, we're never going to get anywhere because there are plenty of people just as dumb as Terry Jones in this country, and they are more than happy to burn Korans while calling for a Christian Theocracy. It's also worth noting that these people have significant power and elect representatives to this country at the national level. Well, maybe not the book burning types, but the Theocracy types.

As long as diplomatic inroads are derailed by these idiots in our country, there is going to be a lot of backsteps in the Middle East.

Of course, as you say, these morons think then the solution is to stop trying, probably because they are the Theocrats. I prefer we continue to try.


Please remember this when you gloat over predictions of Rmoney's loss. The fringe can still cause a lot of problems after the next election.
 
2012-09-12 02:05:17 PM  
It's funny when a conservative complains about our involvement in the region because they're the ones who've spent decades refusing to do anything about our dependence on the region's oil.

/gets elected president
//rips solar panels off of w.h. roof
 
2012-09-12 02:05:42 PM  

wxboy: It is my understanding that Terry Jones didn't make the film, only promoted it.

/Look at me, nitpicking again.


You and your fact-checking. You should be banned.
 
2012-09-12 02:05:53 PM  
Makes me think engaging the Christian world is a waste of time, too:

www.ihatethemedia.com

blogs.villagevoice.com
 
2012-09-12 02:06:07 PM  
Yeah, refusing to talk to people works really well.

Bush refused to talk to North Korea: nuclear weapons program restarted.

Bush refused to talk to Iran: nuclear weapons program restarted.
 
2012-09-12 02:06:18 PM  
I know, we can't get though to those Westboro Baptist lunatics, best nuke America from orbit and be done with us. We're not worth the effort.
 
2012-09-12 02:07:15 PM  
We need to bomb those farkers with chill pills.
 
2012-09-12 02:07:45 PM  

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: As I said in the redlit thread, it's my sense that in heavily authoritarian countries, the population doesn't understand that, unlike in their own countries, there is a difference between the Government/Rulers and media producers and that the media producers aren't responsible to the Government. The Libyan mob probably thought that, by attacking the embassy, they were hitting back at the people that they felt wronged them, not knowing that they were really pissed at some anonymous a-hole about whom the US Government probably knew diddly/squat.

/You can substitute "religious institutions" for "media producers" and be accurate as well.


Well, they also seemed to want the US government to ban "insulting the prophet" or whatnot, to be more authoritarian. Of course, that can't be done under our constitution.
 
2012-09-12 02:07:48 PM  
You, this would be an excellent time for George W. Bush to poke his head out of hiding and say nice things about Muslims again. . .
 
2012-09-12 02:08:02 PM  
The left never gets tired of making excuses for other peoples actions.

Its the guns fault, its the lack of mental health services access fault, its the movies fault, its because of their socio-economic background, its because of wage disparity.....etc ,etc.....well, I mean if it can't be blamed on Bush.
 
2012-09-12 02:09:13 PM  
According to intelligence, the Libya attack was planned and the protest was used only as a diversion.

Link
 
2012-09-12 02:09:13 PM  
iranpoliticsclub.net
 
2012-09-12 02:09:23 PM  
As for Mitt Romney, he must pound on this relentlessly and vigorously. He has less than eight weeks to convince Americans that Barack Obama has been incomplete, incompetent and incapable of acting in our interests both at home and abroad. Our very lives depend on it.

Oh, Mitt's certainly convincing Americans of something all right, if 538's any indication.
 
2012-09-12 02:10:08 PM  

Giltric: The left never gets tired of making excuses for other peoples actions.

Its the guns fault, its the lack of mental health services access fault, its the movies fault, its because of their socio-economic background, its because of wage disparity.....etc ,etc.....well, I mean if it can't be blamed on Bush.


Those aren't excuses. Those are issues that if properly addressed would reduce future incidents.
 
2012-09-12 02:10:28 PM  
The consequences of moving into an era where non-theocratic military dictators no longer rule and oppress the masses of disaffected muslims is becoming apparent. No more Gaddaffi, no more Saddam, no more Mubarak, etc etc. They are used to autocratic rule and were pretty well controlled with violence. Now that dictatorship is slipping away, some of those who pine for autocratic rule are going with the Ayatollahs, and what better way of attracting disaffected people to follow you than by being an extremist blaming the West for all their ills

The Arab Spring's aftermath will not be pretty, but it was inevitable. It may take 100 years for the Muslims to have their Reformation.
 
2012-09-12 02:11:16 PM  
Is this WTF Wednesday now?
 
2012-09-12 02:11:18 PM  

Cletus C.: We need to bomb those farkers with chill pills.


You know, that's not a terrible idea. Airdrop a few million xanax around the area and you'd have peace in the Middle East for a little while at least.
 
2012-09-12 02:11:34 PM  

Peter von Nostrand: Makes me think engaging the Christian world is a waste of time, too:

[www.ihatethemedia.com image 250x313]

[blogs.villagevoice.com image 436x298]


Yeah, but they haven't killed anybody.
 
2012-09-12 02:11:50 PM  

NowhereMon: Nabb1: NowhereMon: vpb: It tells me that religious fundamentalists are dangerous morons, and not just the Muslim ones.

[www.sanduskyregister.com image 850x538]

yup

That guy is an asshole, but he hasn't trashed any embassies or killed any diplomats. The whole point of these attacks were that they were offended by some movie that 99.9% of the population of this country had never heard of before this. One that Pastor Terry is promoting, but he did not have any part in making the film itself, BTW. It's just a silly movie, and maybe it attacks Islam, but so what? And maybe Pastor Terry is a horrible person who spreads narrow-minded ideas, but again, so what? We don't have a First Amendment to protect people from saying things that are popular. It's when people have unpopular ideas that we need to be vigilant. And I think there's a bit of false equivalency by comparing American fundamentalist Christians to this. How many riots and deaths resulted from the protests when "The Last Temptation of Christ" came out? Did anyone kill a Greek diplomat in response? (Nikos Kazantzakis wrote the book. It's quite good.) If you want to silence a critic of Islam, even if his criticisms are misguided or just plain wrong, that's precisely what those perpetuating this violence want you to do. When your first thought is, "Wow, we really need to do something about people saying this that anger those Muslim extremists," that is the exact response they are trying to condition you to respond with.

Doing something that you know will incite violence and even death, is just as bad as actually causing violence or death. You can't just walk away from that responsibility. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should; with the right to free speech comes the responsibility to hopefully exercise that right in a productive way. The state can't and probably shouldn't do anything about that but that doesn't absolve this asshole's responsibility here.


The movie came out months ago. You really think Muslim extremists reacted this strongly in two different countries at the same time, months after the movie came out, on a day that just so happened to be September 11th, randomly? They are using it as an excuse. And in your attempts to appease them, you bought the excuse.
 
2012-09-12 02:12:08 PM  
Some radical Christian attention whore makes a movie that pisses off radical Muslims, who then decide that the best course of action is to kill a few people that had NOTHING to do with the movie whatsoever.

*facepalms into a headdesk*
 
2012-09-12 02:12:25 PM  
How many years was Europe torn apart my religious wars? There is nothing unique about this situation. I just hope it doesn't take another 500 years, and you should wish the same thing.
 
2012-09-12 02:12:27 PM  

DarnoKonrad: I know, we can't get though to those Westboro Baptist lunatics, best nuke America from orbit and be done with us. We're not worth the effort.


It's so much simpler than that.

Lock the Westboro folks, Terry Jones, Pat Robertson, the abortion-clinic firebombers and etc. like in a room with the Arab-world mobs. The rest of us go on about our lives without them mucking things up.

Maybe check back when the noise coming out of the room stops.
 
2012-09-12 02:13:12 PM  

Bubbacus: wxboy: It is my understanding that Terry Jones didn't make the film, only promoted it.

/Look at me, nitpicking again.

You and your fact-checking. You should be banned.


WE'RE NOT GONNA LET OUR HURRR-DERP BE DICTATED BY FACT-CHECKERS!!1!
 
2012-09-12 02:13:14 PM  

Nabb1: NowhereMon: vpb: It tells me that religious fundamentalists are dangerous morons, and not just the Muslim ones.

[www.sanduskyregister.com image 850x538]

yup

That guy is an asshole, but he hasn't trashed any embassies or killed any diplomats. The whole point of these attacks were that they were offended by some movie that 99.9% of the population of this country had never heard of before this. One that Pastor Terry is promoting, but he did not have any part in making the film itself, BTW. It's just a silly movie, and maybe it attacks Islam, but so what? And maybe Pastor Terry is a horrible person who spreads narrow-minded ideas, but again, so what? We don't have a First Amendment to protect people from saying things that are popular. It's when people have unpopular ideas that we need to be vigilant. And I think there's a bit of false equivalency by comparing American fundamentalist Christians to this. How many riots and deaths resulted from the protests when "The Last Temptation of Christ" came out? Did anyone kill a Greek diplomat in response? (Nikos Kazantzakis wrote the book. It's quite good.) If you want to silence a critic of Islam, even if his criticisms are misguided or just plain wrong, that's precisely what those perpetuating this violence want you to do. When your first thought is, "Wow, we really need to do something about people saying this that anger those Muslim extremists," that is the exact response they are trying to condition you to respond with.


The dude basically yelled "FIRE" in a crowded theater.
 
2012-09-12 02:13:37 PM  

Bubbacus: wxboy: It is my understanding that Terry Jones didn't make the film, only promoted it.

/Look at me, nitpicking again.

You and your fact-checking. You should be banned.


i am not even sure what it means that he promoted it. spent money? put a link on his website? showed the movie at his church? cut a deal Cinemark to distribute the film?
 
2012-09-12 02:13:46 PM  

Geotpf: Peter von Nostrand: Makes me think engaging the Christian world is a waste of time, too:

[www.ihatethemedia.com image 250x313]

[blogs.villagevoice.com image 436x298]

Yeah, but they haven't killed anybody.


Well, one of our problems as a nation is automatically assuming that everybody has the same values and thoughts concerning free speech as we do.
 
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