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(Fox News)   After such an epic fail on green energy jobs by Obama, Department of Defense is ordered to purchase thousands of electric cars on taxpayers' dime. Re-Volt-ing   (foxnews.com) divider line 175
    More: Fail, President Obama, Department of Defense, green energy, plug-in car, sticker price, losers  
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1010 clicks; posted to Politics » on 12 Sep 2012 at 12:19 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-12 01:05:31 PM  
beta_plus:

I'm racist against the UAW. They make bad cars and enjoy and take pride in making bad cars. The LEAF will soon be made in Smyrna, TN. Try harder next time, racist.

Aren't the UAW Americans as well? Also how can you say that they take pride in making bad cars?
 
2012-09-12 01:05:37 PM  
Sometimes there is more to a government decision than just raw budget numbers. The DOD has stated that Energy Independence is a long-term security risk for the country. As such, it makes sense for new vehicle purchases to be in accordance with that goal, even if they cost more.
 
2012-09-12 01:06:13 PM  
After such an epic fail on green energy jobs by Obama,

Yeah, no.
 
2012-09-12 01:07:48 PM  
GM should just call themselves something like PeoplesCar and get it over with
 
2012-09-12 01:09:43 PM  

hillbillypharmacist: Buffalo Obumper Goes About His Daily Business, Eats Some Breakfast, Attends Meetings,Talks On The Phone With People About The Thing In Libya And Netenyahu. Most Corrupt Administration Ever.


Look at that biatch, eating crackers like she owns the place.
 
2012-09-12 01:10:11 PM  

jehovahs witness protection: After seeing how government workers abuse the perks of having a free car and free gas, I suspect that there will be NO savings as these people will use the "free" car as their personal vehicle and it will be just another botched government plan that will do nothing more than waste tax payer money.


Good one.

Now compare the carbon outputs of the dinobone-powered cars with the electricity-powered ones.
 
2012-09-12 01:10:54 PM  
One of my most favorite things about the Republicans trashing green energy is when they complain about the DoD trying to get our military off of fossil fuels. Because we should definitely have our war machinery powered by the stuff that comes from the people we are most often fighting with.
 
2012-09-12 01:12:08 PM  

Infernalist: So, the pentagon orders a bunch of cars that are good for the environment...from an American company... and this is a bad thing.

Could someone tell me what part is actually outrage-inducing? Maybe I missed a critical detail in there.


The cars get more than 5 mpg and are therefore an affront to capitalism and freedom. He's trying to cram emissionless vehicles down our throats!!!!!?!
 
2012-09-12 01:13:16 PM  

Jackson Herring: Cinaed: Money is going to get spent. I'd rather 1500 Volts get bought by the DoD than another F-22.

The DoD could buy 5000 Volts for the cost of one F-22.


Ok Mr "smarty pants math guy", how many Amps could they buy?

revimgs.bevnet.com
 
2012-09-12 01:14:22 PM  

dumbobruni: the most common trade in for the Volt? The Prius.

the prius also was a big money loser for Toyota. it took Toyota seven years to see a profit on it.

now its one of the companies biggest contributors to profits.

the lesson here? Americans should only focus on the short term, and give up if life is too hard.


2007 Prius driver here. I would trade my current car in for a Volt, not sure if I would if I had a newer model. That is, if I had anywhere to plug the damn thing in. My apartment's lot is kinda far from the building.

The Volt might have greater success if it wasn't stupid expensive and maintained a larger charge. 40 miles? That's pathetic. For 40 miles they should have drastically shortened the charge time. That way you could actually stand to charge the thing from an apartment building. I have to charge the thing overnight? I am expecting at least three days worth of travel on it. But this is America - we can't risk that sweet sweet oil and defense industry money.
 
2012-09-12 01:16:51 PM  

All2morrowsparTs: beta_plus:

I'm racist against the UAW. They make bad cars and enjoy and take pride in making bad cars. The LEAF will soon be made in Smyrna, TN. Try harder next time, racist.

Aren't the UAW Americans as well? Also how can you say that they take pride in making bad cars?


Because he hates America.
 
2012-09-12 01:17:47 PM  

Cletus C.: I love the "well, government wastes a bunch of money on this, so wasting a bunch of money on that is no big deal" argument.

It gives such great hope for the future.


What's wasteful about this?
 
2012-09-12 01:17:59 PM  

Edsel: Because we should definitely have our war machinery powered by the stuff that comes from the people we are most often fighting with.


We're fighting with Canada and Mexico?

Ok sure, Poutine and Drugs, I'll give you that.
 
2012-09-12 01:20:10 PM  

liam76: xsive: serial_crusher: y'know, I did the math when I was looking at these, and I just don't drive enough for the savings on gas to make up for the higher sticker price.
Government agencies will probably use their cars a lot more often than I do though.

GM basically said you'd never recoup the cost on a volt, it's more like the first prius, by purchasing / driving you're making a statement more than saving yourself some cash.

Where did they say that?


Id have to do a lot of digging, I live in the detroit area and most likely heard it on public radio. They were interviewing folks from the auto industry almost daily when the volt was first released. It was probably not an official company position, so my bad on saying "GM" said that, when it was most likely a minion.
 
2012-09-12 01:20:51 PM  
The report took GM's huge investment in the pioneering car and divided it by the meager sales to date and concluded that each car costs the company nearly $90,000 - more than double the sticker price.

So, the "investment divided by units sold" calculation means every product ever produced loses money until they sell enough units. Sure, sales are disappointing so far, but this retarded calculation means that that number is reduced for every unit sold. I wonder if they'll do this same calculation a year or two from now? I doubt it.
 
2012-09-12 01:21:04 PM  
But Hummers would have been just fine.
 
2012-09-12 01:21:12 PM  

skullkrusher: GM should just call themselves something like PeoplesCar and get it over with


I see what you did there.
 
2012-09-12 01:21:39 PM  
beta_plus: Why is the Obama administration racist to the Japanese?

[waterboards beta_plus for fifteen days straight]

Damn, why do we have to put up with your insane shiat?
 
2012-09-12 01:22:50 PM  
yeah the military has been going green for quite some time
link

wait till they find out fartbama is using taxpayer money for solar, wind and geothermal
 
2012-09-12 01:24:44 PM  

nyseattitude: Jackson Herring: Cinaed: Money is going to get spent. I'd rather 1500 Volts get bought by the DoD than another F-22.

The DoD could buy 5000 Volts for the cost of one F-22.

Ok Mr "smarty pants math guy", how many Amps could they buy?

[revimgs.bevnet.com image 194x275]


The cost of the F-22 is different depending upon who you get your info from. The three most common numbers I found were:
$143 million
$341 million
$177 million

If 1 AMP is $1.54 and 1 F-22 costs $143 million, then you could get 92,857,142 AMPs (before tax)
If 1 AMP is $1.54 and 1 F-22 costs $361 million, then you could get 234,415,584 AMPs (before tax)
If 1 AMP is $1.54 and 1 F-22 costs $177 million, then you could get 114,935,064 AMPs (before tax)

All government spending should henceforth be expressed as AMPs.
 
2012-09-12 01:25:03 PM  

ginandbacon: Of all the things in the DOD budget, this is what the conservatives decide to bunch their panties over?


Well, this morning yes. I don't know what's scheduled for the afternoon and the rest of week.
 
2012-09-12 01:25:21 PM  

More_Like_A_Stain: Cletus C.: I love the "well, government wastes a bunch of money on this, so wasting a bunch of money on that is no big deal" argument.

It gives such great hope for the future.

What's wasteful about this?


If gasoline powered vehicles would be more cost effective (which is apparently the point of view of car buyers, otherwise the Volt would be selling), then any excess cost incurred due to buying Volts is wasteful.
 
2012-09-12 01:27:01 PM  

Tor_Eckman: I have no idea how hard it is to get a writing gig on Fox News, but man does it seem like a sweet job.

As long as you are willing to totally swallow your dignity for easy money.


Rule of Acquisition 109: Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
 
2012-09-12 01:27:36 PM  

The Lone Gunman: serial_crusher: y'know, I did the math when I was looking at these, and I just don't drive enough for the savings on gas to make up for the higher sticker price.
Government agencies will probably use their cars a lot more often than I do though.

It's not just gas. Nothing wears out parts on a car like a internal combustion engine. You won't save a colossal amount of money on gas but you'll save a ton on replacement parts due to wear and tear.


Is that still a thing? I don't really plan to own a car longer than 7-10 years. Been 7 on my current one and I haven't had to replace anything in or near the engine (unless you count oil changes). I think from the math I did a brand new Volt would have taken 20 years to cover the costs vs. chevy's comparable combustion model. Even if replacement parts cut that number down to 15 years, a combustion engine is still a better deal.
 
2012-09-12 01:27:57 PM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: Edsel: Because we should definitely have our war machinery powered by the stuff that comes from the people we are most often fighting with.

We're fighting with Canada and Mexico?


oil is a globally traded commodity
 
2012-09-12 01:29:49 PM  

ginandbacon: Of all the things in the DOD budget, this is what the conservatives decide to bunch their panties over?


Someone should take up a collection to buy the GOP some thongs. Their panties bunch so easily, maybe it's time they stopped wearing the 30-for-$1, belly-button-to-mid-thigh bloomers and go with something a bit more manageable.

Or they could go commando. That seems like a sensible GOP direction - plus, it saves on teh spendingz.
 
2012-09-12 01:29:56 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: If gasoline powered vehicles would be more cost effective (which is apparently the point of view of car buyers, otherwise the Volt would be selling), then any excess cost incurred due to buying Volts is wasteful.


Not the only consideration.

If this was true, why is the military brass wanting to develop biofuels for their naval fleet? Just a bunch of idealistic hippies? Nope. There are simply other considerations.
 
2012-09-12 01:30:13 PM  
Headline reads like a Kelly comic, only serious

o.onionstatic.com
 
2012-09-12 01:30:32 PM  
Like anything this adminstration touches, his "green jobs" are a bust....to start off they made sure that out of the $800 billion stimulus package set aside, $70 billion was for green-energy projects - which $9 billion of that has so far been spent on green jobs....in which the government created 910 new, long-term jobs....grand total for those keeping count: a cost to taxpayers of $9.8 million per job.  What a deal!
 
2012-09-12 01:30:59 PM  

Headso: The_Six_Fingered_Man: Edsel: Because we should definitely have our war machinery powered by the stuff that comes from the people we are most often fighting with.

We're fighting with Canada and Mexico?

oil is a globally traded commodity


No, no, the gas just magically appears out of the refineries.
 
2012-09-12 01:31:04 PM  

Headso: oil is a globally traded commodity


That can be heavily influenced by a cartel. Or haven't you been paying attention.
 
2012-09-12 01:31:52 PM  

karnal: Like anything this adminstration touches, his "green jobs" are a bust....to start off they made sure that out of the $800 billion stimulus package set aside, $70 billion was for green-energy projects - which $9 billion of that has so far been spent on green jobs....in which the government created 910 new, long-term jobs....grand total for those keeping count: a cost to taxpayers of $9.8 million per job.  What a deal!


So jobs was the only positive externality and only goal.
 
2012-09-12 01:31:53 PM  

theknuckler_33: The report took GM's huge investment in the pioneering car and divided it by the meager sales to date and concluded that each car costs the company nearly $90,000 - more than double the sticker price.

So, the "investment divided by units sold" calculation means every product ever produced loses money until they sell enough units. Sure, sales are disappointing so far, but this retarded calculation means that that number is reduced for every unit sold. I wonder if they'll do this same calculation a year or two from now? I doubt it.


static.ddmcdn.com
Microsoft chuckles and gives a high-five to Chevrolet. 

"....Forget it, man, they're rolling."

\cost to make 1 xbox 360 = $460
\\"loss" on each xbox 360 produced = $125
\\\xbox 360 profits = $1.36 billion
 
2012-09-12 01:32:26 PM  

cig-mkr: So what is Obama being driven around in? Hint, it's not a Chevy Volt.


How dare the Secret Service force Obama to drive around in the armored towncar (or whatever), paid for by taxpayers, that every other president for the past 50 years has had to drive around in!!!!!!
 
2012-09-12 01:32:27 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: If gasoline powered vehicles would be more cost effective (which is apparently the point of view of car buyers, otherwise the Volt would be selling), then any excess cost incurred due to buying Volts is wasteful.


Government vehicles are not used in the same manner as personal vehicles.

Personal vehicles have no dedicated infrastructure (other than maybe a charging point at home and possibly one at work). People commute regularly, but occasionally take longer-distance trips where frequent stops for charging would be inconvenient.

A military base motor pool seems like an ideal place for these vehicles: they can easily set up dedicated infrastructure (wiring, charging ports, etc.) at the necessary locations on-base, most vehicles are driven around on-base (a geographically limited area) and are not usually taken for longer journeys.off-base.

It's very similar to city buses using natural gas: such vehicles would be impractical for personal use due to the lack of widespread filling stations, but when the buses all come back to the depot at the end of the shift they can be refueled easily.
 
2012-09-12 01:34:12 PM  

bartink: Headso: oil is a globally traded commodity

That can be heavily influenced by a cartel. Or haven't you been paying attention.


your post makes no sense as a reply to mine, you'll have to clarify...
 
2012-09-12 01:34:37 PM  

Hoboclown: Headline reads like a Kelly comic, only serious

[o.onionstatic.com image 630x444]


I...is that supposed to not make sense on purpose?
 
2012-09-12 01:37:04 PM  

Headso: your post makes no sense as a reply to mine, you'll have to clarify...


If you didn't mean to say that its irrelevant that oil is produced on a global market, therefore it doesn't matter what percentage of it comes from folks that might want to screw with us, then do say so. Because that looks like what you were trying to say.
 
2012-09-12 01:38:18 PM  

bartink: Headso: your post makes no sense as a reply to mine, you'll have to clarify...

If you didn't mean to say that its irrelevant that oil is produced on a global market, therefore it doesn't matter what percentage of it comes from folks that might want to screw with us, then do say so. Because that looks like what you were trying to say.


that's what the guy I was responding to was suggesting.
 
2012-09-12 01:38:38 PM  

karnal: Like anything this...


So... the green jobs initiative included money to GM to produce the Volt?
 
2012-09-12 01:39:03 PM  
How about a fleet of Pedo Vans?

encrypted-tbn2.google.com 

images.thetruthaboutcars.com
 
2012-09-12 01:39:16 PM  

heypete: Debeo Summa Credo: If gasoline powered vehicles would be more cost effective (which is apparently the point of view of car buyers, otherwise the Volt would be selling), then any excess cost incurred due to buying Volts is wasteful.

Government vehicles are not used in the same manner as personal vehicles.

Personal vehicles have no dedicated infrastructure (other than maybe a charging point at home and possibly one at work). People commute regularly, but occasionally take longer-distance trips where frequent stops for charging would be inconvenient.

A military base motor pool seems like an ideal place for these vehicles: they can easily set up dedicated infrastructure (wiring, charging ports, etc.) at the necessary locations on-base, most vehicles are driven around on-base (a geographically limited area) and are not usually taken for longer journeys.off-base.

It's very similar to city buses using natural gas: such vehicles would be impractical for personal use due to the lack of widespread filling stations, but when the buses all come back to the depot at the end of the shift they can be refueled easily.


Good points. Improves the possibility that these are not less cost-effective than gas powered vehicles.
 
2012-09-12 01:41:26 PM  
bartink
karnal: Like anything this adminstration touches, his "green jobs" are a bust....to start off they made sure that out of the $800 billion stimulus package set aside, $70 billion was for green-energy projects - which $9 billion of that has so far been spent on green jobs....in which the government created 910 new, long-term jobs....grand total for those keeping count: a cost to taxpayers of $9.8 million per job. What a deal!

So jobs was the only positive externality and only goal.



Of course not.....and I am not suggesting throwing the baby out with the bath water - when the time comes, green jobs should and will be created by the private sector, eager to profit....and that is how it should be.
 
2012-09-12 01:41:39 PM  

Epoch_Zero: Hoboclown: Headline reads like a Kelly comic, only serious

[o.onionstatic.com image 630x444]

I...is that supposed to not make sense on purpose?


Yes.

Not to explain the joke too much, but it's the Onion. Kelly draws cartoons parodying conservative cartoons.
 
2012-09-12 01:43:34 PM  

bartink: But Hummers would have been just fine.


I read that as 'Butt-Hummers' and can't stop laughing.
 
2012-09-12 01:44:10 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: Good points. Improves the possibility that these are not less cost-effective than gas powered vehicles.


Indeed.

Sorry if I'm a bit incoherent: cold medicine does wonders for my congestion but screws with my brain a bit. :-P
 
2012-09-12 01:46:10 PM  

heypete: Debeo Summa Credo: If gasoline powered vehicles would be more cost effective (which is apparently the point of view of car buyers, otherwise the Volt would be selling), then any excess cost incurred due to buying Volts is wasteful.

Government vehicles are not used in the same manner as personal vehicles.

Personal vehicles have no dedicated infrastructure (other than maybe a charging point at home and possibly one at work). People commute regularly, but occasionally take longer-distance trips where frequent stops for charging would be inconvenient.

A military base motor pool seems like an ideal place for these vehicles: they can easily set up dedicated infrastructure (wiring, charging ports, etc.) at the necessary locations on-base, most vehicles are driven around on-base (a geographically limited area) and are not usually taken for longer journeys.off-base.

It's very similar to city buses using natural gas: such vehicles would be impractical for personal use due to the lack of widespread filling stations, but when the buses all come back to the depot at the end of the shift they can be refueled easily.


Forget trying to reason with obvious trolls.
 
2012-09-12 01:49:03 PM  

heypete: Debeo Summa Credo: If gasoline powered vehicles would be more cost effective (which is apparently the point of view of car buyers, otherwise the Volt would be selling), then any excess cost incurred due to buying Volts is wasteful.

Government vehicles are not used in the same manner as personal vehicles.

Personal vehicles have no dedicated infrastructure (other than maybe a charging point at home and possibly one at work). People commute regularly, but occasionally take longer-distance trips where frequent stops for charging would be inconvenient.

A military base motor pool seems like an ideal place for these vehicles: they can easily set up dedicated infrastructure (wiring, charging ports, etc.) at the necessary locations on-base, most vehicles are driven around on-base (a geographically limited area) and are not usually taken for longer journeys.off-base.

It's very similar to city buses using natural gas: such vehicles would be impractical for personal use due to the lack of widespread filling stations, but when the buses all come back to the depot at the end of the shift they can be refueled easily.


That's what I was thinking, and why I asked where the waste was. Unless things have changed drastically since I was in the military, most transport didn't require pick up trucks or heavier vehicles. A lot of staff personnel moved from one place to another via standard sedans. This type of usage would seem to be perfect for the Volt. Short trips, charging stations installed at convenient locations. And with enough charging stations, gasoline usage could be nearly eliminated.
 
2012-09-12 01:56:03 PM  
After such an epic fail on delivering unbiased reporting by Fox News, the legions of drooling morons who watch them were ordered to go see '2016: Obama's America' in masses.
 
2012-09-12 01:58:19 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: heypete: Debeo Summa Credo: If gasoline powered vehicles would be more cost effective (which is apparently the point of view of car buyers, otherwise the Volt would be selling), then any excess cost incurred due to buying Volts is wasteful.

Government vehicles are not used in the same manner as personal vehicles.

Personal vehicles have no dedicated infrastructure (other than maybe a charging point at home and possibly one at work). People commute regularly, but occasionally take longer-distance trips where frequent stops for charging would be inconvenient.

A military base motor pool seems like an ideal place for these vehicles: they can easily set up dedicated infrastructure (wiring, charging ports, etc.) at the necessary locations on-base, most vehicles are driven around on-base (a geographically limited area) and are not usually taken for longer journeys.off-base.

It's very similar to city buses using natural gas: such vehicles would be impractical for personal use due to the lack of widespread filling stations, but when the buses all come back to the depot at the end of the shift they can be refueled easily.

Good points. Improves the possibility that these are not less cost-effective than gas powered vehicles.


I take back my previous comment. You can indeed be reasonable when you want to be.
 
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