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(Fox News)   After such an epic fail on green energy jobs by Obama, Department of Defense is ordered to purchase thousands of electric cars on taxpayers' dime. Re-Volt-ing   (foxnews.com) divider line 175
    More: Fail, President Obama, Department of Defense, green energy, plug-in car, sticker price, losers  
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1010 clicks; posted to Politics » on 12 Sep 2012 at 12:19 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-12 08:52:26 AM  
y'know, I did the math when I was looking at these, and I just don't drive enough for the savings on gas to make up for the higher sticker price.
Government agencies will probably use their cars a lot more often than I do though.
 
2012-09-12 08:56:00 AM  
The Department of Defense is planning to purchase 1,500 electric cars

So what does that equal, almost one ICBM that we'll never fire?
 
2012-09-12 08:57:14 AM  
Buffalo Obumper Goes About His Daily Business, Eats Some Breakfast, Attends Meetings,Talks On The Phone With People About The Thing In Libya And Netenyahu. Most Corrupt Administration Ever.
 
2012-09-12 08:58:36 AM  
stupid Obama, why can't these employees just fly around on magic carpets or just will themselves around to jobsites.
 
2012-09-12 09:03:00 AM  

hillbillypharmacist: Buffalo Obumper Goes About His Daily Business, Eats Some Breakfast, Attends Meetings,Talks On The Phone With People About The Thing In Libya And Netenyahu. Most Corrupt Administration Ever.


After such an Epic Fail on Eating Some Breakfast, schools around the country are ORDERED to provide lunch to children of low-income households.
 
2012-09-12 09:04:17 AM  

serial_crusher: y'know, I did the math when I was looking at these, and I just don't drive enough for the savings on gas to make up for the higher sticker price.
Government agencies will probably use their cars a lot more often than I do though.


GM basically said you'd never recoup the cost on a volt, it's more like the first prius, by purchasing / driving you're making a statement more than saving yourself some cash.
 
2012-09-12 09:10:02 AM  

Jackson Herring: After such an Epic Fail on Eating Some Breakfast, schools around the country are ORDERED to provide lunch to children of low-income households.


After Such An Epic Failure By Obaba To Leave The White House And Going Back Home To ChicagO Using Our Interstate System, DOT Ordered To Allow Non Job Creators To Travel Without Proof Of Productivity
 
2012-09-12 09:10:34 AM  
DoD buys 1500 Volts in an effort to go more green and FOX has conniption fits five minutes later?

Is that what this is?

*sigh*

My shocked face...

/It's like watching the swallows return to Capistrano only without the grace and natural beauty thing.
 
2012-09-12 09:12:36 AM  
Supporting cleaner energy is quite common for local governments as well. In IA government cars are Flex Fueled (they can run on E85). In Phoenix, AZ back in the day the local bus shuttle system ran on compressed natural gas to reduce/eliminate particulates. I've seen many city buses retrofitted to run on biodiesel and even vegetable oil. If you're going to buy fleet vehicles anyway, it makes sense to make them run on domestically produced energy rather than fungible petroleum. That way the government investments go back into the local energy community. Why the Submitter hates American energy independence, I don't know.
 
2012-09-12 09:14:09 AM  
Well DUH!
Everything the Pentagon buys is paid for by taxpayers.
 
2012-09-12 09:16:45 AM  

quatchi: DoD buys 1500 Volts in an effort to go more green and FOX has conniption fits five minutes later?


The Headline: Fartbongo Al-Chicago takes dump.

The article: FOX News complaining about the smell.

Analysis from the Panel: Charles Krauthammer and Brit Hume recall wistfully for the days Bush's anus smelled like roses as they tongue-punched his farthole.
 
2012-09-12 09:24:02 AM  
Of all the things in the DOD budget, this is what the conservatives decide to bunch their panties over?
 
2012-09-12 09:26:43 AM  

ginandbacon: Of all the things in the DOD budget, this is what the conservatives decide to bunch their panties over?


Of course.
 
2012-09-12 09:30:00 AM  
After seeing how government workers abuse the perks of having a free car and free gas, I suspect that there will be NO savings as these people will use the "free" car as their personal vehicle and it will be just another botched government plan that will do nothing more than waste tax payer money.
 
2012-09-12 09:33:07 AM  
We will drag you kicking and screaming into the future and in the end you will thank us for it.
 
2012-09-12 09:36:48 AM  

Mugato: So what does that equal, almost one ICBM that we'll never fire?


Well in that case...
 
2012-09-12 09:37:21 AM  

jehovahs witness protection: After seeing how government workers abuse the perks of having a free car and free gas, I suspect that there will be NO savings as these people will use the "free" car as their personal vehicle and it will be just another botched government plan that will do nothing more than waste tax payer money.


Which is why they've been consistent in their outrage about all those "free" vehicles used over the last couple decades?
 
2012-09-12 09:38:22 AM  
Don't most government agencies and a number of large corporations buy fleets of cars at a time? Going electric makes a hell of a lot of sense. Why shouldn't the government ease up on oil usage where it can?
 
2012-09-12 09:39:11 AM  
If we ever go to war against the Japanese or Germans, will our electric cars defeat theirs? Or the nutjobs could just admit this will be used to move paper-pushing bureaucrats around DC.


*It's OK to be a lazy Government worker, so long as you wear a uniform.
 
2012-09-12 09:54:49 AM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: We will drag you kicking and screaming into the future and in the end you will thank us take credit for it and rewrite history to suggest it was your idea all along.


FTFU
 
2012-09-12 09:55:45 AM  

Lumpmoose: Don't most government agencies and a number of large corporations buy fleets of cars at a time?


Sounds a massive purchase would be an opportunity to help lower the barriers to entry into the market for a new product.
 
2012-09-12 10:03:05 AM  
yet no one complains when a $400 million dollar weapons platform experiment blows up in 10 seconds. Gotta love right wing priorities.
 
2012-09-12 10:03:19 AM  
I need a Chevy Volt with 50 Caliber Machine Gun swivel mount on top photoshopped NOW!
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-09-12 10:11:27 AM  
So, buying non-electric cars instead would be good how?

And what was the "epic fail" for those of us in the reality based community? Even Faux news doesn't mention that.
 
2012-09-12 10:11:49 AM  
And DoD purchased a bunch of natural gas burners in the 90's. What's the problem? These vehicles are used to get from one end of the base to the other, drive around the flight-line, haul people on a guided tour, commander vehicle. A Volt is perfect for those kinds of duties. And if they install a relatively cheap solar charge arrays around company CQs (and such) they'll probably actually save money - the military will use a "drive-around" vehicle until it falls apart.
 
2012-09-12 10:12:20 AM  
Department of Defense buys things on the taxpayers dime?!

YOU MEAN TO TELL ME THAT N0BAMA USES PUBLIC MONEY TO BUY THINGS?!!?
 
2012-09-12 10:17:43 AM  

vpb: So, buying non-electric cars instead would be good how?


It would increase American reliance on foreign which would be a good thing from the Republican POV because they are all Sekrit Saudis!

/Ow!
//Trying to think like a rightie makes my brain throb most painfully. 
 
2012-09-12 10:23:48 AM  
Department of Defense employees should all be driving around in Hummers. Worst. President. Ever.
 
2012-09-12 10:24:48 AM  
or at least Mazda Miatas.
 
2012-09-12 10:26:06 AM  
The only responsibility of the DoD should be to stoke our nation's tire fires, just because it pisses off the libs.
 
2012-09-12 10:26:22 AM  

UberDave: And DoD purchased a bunch of natural gas burners in the 90's. What's the problem? These vehicles are used to get from one end of the base to the other, drive around the flight-line, haul people on a guided tour, commander vehicle. A Volt is perfect for those kinds of duties. And if they install a relatively cheap solar charge arrays around company CQs (and such) they'll probably actually save money - the military will use a "drive-around" vehicle until it falls apart.


True, dat. When I was an SP I drove Trucks and Jeeps from the 1960s. We had a good mechanic, and drove them 24/7/365. Each shift checked the oil and tire pressure, and other fluids. We almost never exceeded the posted speed limits, and babied them. My fave was a 6 pack sull length Pick up that had a huge rear bench seat. V-8, and you could put a 4 man fire team in it with lots for room for gear and ammo in the back.

Electric cars will get driven until they fall apart and it is a good way to see if they hold up over time. They will get driven almost constantly and should receive mimimal abuse. It's not like they let teenagers drive them.
 
2012-09-12 10:37:10 AM  

xsive: GM basically said you'd never recoup the cost on a volt, it's more like the first prius, by purchasing / driving you're making a statement more than saving yourself some cash.


That statement being, "I'm using less oil than other drivers."

But sure, the only important thing to consider is how much it costs to run it.
 
2012-09-12 10:57:32 AM  
I bet the taxpayers pay for a lawncare company to mow the lawn at the Pentagon too.
 
2012-09-12 11:03:18 AM  

sweetmelissa31: or at least Mazda Miatas.


I'm wagging my finger at you.
 
2012-09-12 11:22:24 AM  
It's always amusing when people cry about their precious tax dollars and the trivial things the gov't spends "their" money on, given all the truly wasteful gov't spending on bullshiat and the fact that the whole thing is abstract anyway given the size of the debt. You would think people literally get bills in the mail labeled "birth control for that girl's slutty friend" or "electric cars for the DoD.
 
2012-09-12 11:24:39 AM  

Mugato: It's always amusing when people cry about their precious tax dollars and the trivial things the gov't spends "their" money on, given all the truly wasteful gov't spending on bullshiat and the fact that the whole thing is abstract anyway given the size of the debt. You would think people literally get bills in the mail labeled "birth control for that girl's slutty friend" or "electric cars for the DoD.


Funding one ridiculous thing would be bad, but funding a billion ridiculous things is OK?
 
2012-09-12 11:27:42 AM  
So, what I'm getting here, that in the event of a strategic attack on our oil supply, we shouldn't have a plan to transport our Defense Department?
 
2012-09-12 11:28:38 AM  

serial_crusher: Mugato: It's always amusing when people cry about their precious tax dollars and the trivial things the gov't spends "their" money on, given all the truly wasteful gov't spending on bullshiat and the fact that the whole thing is abstract anyway given the size of the debt. You would think people literally get bills in the mail labeled "birth control for that girl's slutty friend" or "electric cars for the DoD.

Funding one ridiculous thing would be bad, but funding a billion ridiculous things is OK?


I'm saying people should have priorities if they're going to biatch about their tax dollars. This isn't even the worst thing the DoD spends money on, much less the entire government.
 
2012-09-12 11:39:54 AM  

Mugato: serial_crusher: Mugato: It's always amusing when people cry about their precious tax dollars and the trivial things the gov't spends "their" money on, given all the truly wasteful gov't spending on bullshiat and the fact that the whole thing is abstract anyway given the size of the debt. You would think people literally get bills in the mail labeled "birth control for that girl's slutty friend" or "electric cars for the DoD.

Funding one ridiculous thing would be bad, but funding a billion ridiculous things is OK?

I'm saying people should have priorities if they're going to biatch about their tax dollars. This isn't even the worst thing the DoD spends money on, much less the entire government.


If the cars are fully used off the generator, it means there is less demand for gasoline at that base, reducing the amount of supply needed there. Since airlifting gasoline is hideously expensive, this could be quite a bit cheaper.
 
2012-09-12 12:22:19 PM  
I'm okay with this.
 
2012-09-12 12:23:17 PM  
meh, i'd rather see the military take the volt engine out of the car and put it in one of these bad boys
 
2012-09-12 12:24:00 PM  

sweetmelissa31: Department of Defense employees should all be driving around in Hummers. Worst. President. Ever.


[bill_clinton_joke.txt]
 
2012-09-12 12:24:17 PM  

vernonFL: I bet the taxpayers pay for a lawncare company to mow the lawn at the Pentagon too.


Do-nothing president for you...
 
2012-09-12 12:26:24 PM  
It ain't easy being green....
rickmanelius.com
 
2012-09-12 12:26:31 PM  
So, the pentagon orders a bunch of cars that are good for the environment...from an American company... and this is a bad thing.

Could someone tell me what part is actually outrage-inducing? Maybe I missed a critical detail in there.
 
2012-09-12 12:26:34 PM  
Coal-powered cars. Yay!
 
2012-09-12 12:26:45 PM  
Oh so now we care about excessive DoD spending? Tomorrow do we go back to "unlimited spending or you hate the troops"?
 
2012-09-12 12:26:55 PM  

Mugato: The Department of Defense is planning to purchase 1,500 electric cars

So what does that equal, almost one ICBM that we'll never fire?


If shooting sparks out of our bureacrats' asses was somehow a favorable outcome for the will of the people, it certainly would be more beneficial than the production and use of an ICBM.

Unless you're Romney (praise his retarded name).
 
2012-09-12 12:27:44 PM  
Anyone have a problem with this?
*Looks around thread*
Nope, didn't think so... back to your outrage factory, subby, you need a new product, no one is buying this one.
 
2012-09-12 12:27:53 PM  

Infernalist: Could someone tell me what part is actually outrage-inducing?


The green part. That's enough for the GOP.
 
2012-09-12 12:28:50 PM  
because , I mean it's not like history provides ANY examples of a War machine that was brought to its knees because it was overdependent on supplies of oil and gas it couldn;t produce domestically
 
2012-09-12 12:29:41 PM  
500 dollars for a hammer
300 dollars for a toilet seat
1500000 dollars for a Volt.

Cutting medicare, medicaid and social security in lieu of these numbers: priceless.

There's some costs that can't be inflated, for everything else there's DoD, official sponsor of Defecits, Inc.
 
2012-09-12 12:30:21 PM  

serial_crusher: y'know, I did the math when I was looking at these, and I just don't drive enough for the savings on gas to make up for the higher sticker price.
Government agencies will probably use their cars a lot more often than I do though.


That, plus a lot of these vehicles will be used for purposes that are perfect for electric cars. Lots of these won't travel all that far outside of a certain range in or around their base. Electric cars kind of suck for cross-country driving, but these vehicles won't do that---they'll just shuttle people around fairly small areas, and by not using gas they'll save the gov't a bundle in the long run.
 
2012-09-12 12:30:58 PM  
I have no idea how hard it is to get a writing gig on Fox News, but man does it seem like a sweet job.

As long as you are willing to totally swallow your dignity for easy money.
 
2012-09-12 12:31:11 PM  
I've also heard that Obama ordered the Department of Defense to purchase millions of rounds of ammunition, weapons, and jet airplanes.
 
2012-09-12 12:31:53 PM  

Infernalist: Could someone tell me what part is actually outrage-inducing? Maybe I missed a critical detail in there.


Obama is somehow tangentially involved, therefore it is the worst possible thing.

Hey, did you know that sometimes Obama drinks clean water from the municipal supply? REAL Americans take their chances with pure, natural river water, with none of that communist water treatment bullshiat.
 
2012-09-12 12:32:07 PM  
the most common trade in for the Volt? The Prius.

the prius also was a big money loser for Toyota. it took Toyota seven years to see a profit on it.

now its one of the companies biggest contributors to profits.

the lesson here? Americans should only focus on the short term, and give up if life is too hard.
 
2012-09-12 12:32:30 PM  
Why is the Obama administration racist to the Japanese?

www.blogcdn.com

www.blogcdn.com

/if you're going to buy electric/hybrid cars, at least buy good ones
 
2012-09-12 12:33:29 PM  
Headso: to jobsites.

JobSiTEs
Where?
OBAMA
Whe
\o/
|
/\
 
2012-09-12 12:33:45 PM  
. You would think people literally get bills in the mail labeled "birth control for that girl's slutty friend" or "electric cars for the DoD.

Wait- you mean we *don't* get bills like that? Damnit, what'd I write that check for?
 
2012-09-12 12:34:33 PM  

sweetmelissa31: or at least Mazda Miatas.


Corvettes.
 
2012-09-12 12:35:18 PM  

xsive: serial_crusher: y'know, I did the math when I was looking at these, and I just don't drive enough for the savings on gas to make up for the higher sticker price.
Government agencies will probably use their cars a lot more often than I do though.

GM basically said you'd never recoup the cost on a volt, it's more like the first prius, by purchasing / driving you're making a statement more than saving yourself some cash.


Where did they say that?
 
2012-09-12 12:35:25 PM  
 
2012-09-12 12:37:42 PM  
Earlier this week, Reuters reported that GM is losing up to $49,000 on every Volt driven out of the showroom. The report took GM's huge investment in the pioneering car and divided it by the meager sales to date and concluded that each car costs the company nearly $90,000 - more than double the sticker price


I'm not saying the Volt (as it stands now) is ever going to be profitable for GM. The benefits are HIGHLY desireable but the cost is not yet in line with what someone, like me, is willing to pay.

Having said that this stupid quote is kind of like running a cost analysis on a newly opened McDonalds and insisting they're losing $54,336.84 on the 20 Big Macs they've sold.
 
2012-09-12 12:39:19 PM  

beta_plus: Why is the Obama administration racist to the Japanese?

[www.blogcdn.com image 630x419]

[www.blogcdn.com image 450x299]

/if you're going to buy electric/hybrid cars, at least buy good ones


why are you racist against Americans?
 
2012-09-12 12:39:25 PM  
*sigh*
 
2012-09-12 12:39:44 PM  

serial_crusher: y'know, I did the math when I was looking at these, and I just don't drive enough for the savings on gas to make up for the higher sticker price.
Government agencies will probably use their cars a lot more often than I do though.


Might be something about "reducing greenhouse emissions" being a good thing to factor into your calculations. Or not.
 
2012-09-12 12:40:29 PM  

Mugato: The Department of Defense is planning to purchase 1,500 electric cars

So what does that equal, almost one ICBM that we'll never fire?


So you're hoping when we build an ICBM, we should use it for it's intended purpose? You, sir, are a warmonger.

You build them so you won't have to use them, silly.
 
2012-09-12 12:41:10 PM  
I wonder if they'll put in solar panels as well. What a great idea.
 
2012-09-12 12:41:15 PM  
The Department of Defense should never buy any vehicles, and if they do, they shouldn't use tax payer money and they should get at most 15 miles per gallon.
 
2012-09-12 12:41:18 PM  
I demand the government purchase nothing but hummers and the biggest pickup trucks they can find!
 
2012-09-12 12:41:34 PM  
Earlier this week, Reuters reported that GM is losing up to $49,000 on every Volt driven out of the showroom. The report took GM's huge investment in the pioneering car and divided it by the meager sales to date and concluded that each car costs the company nearly $90,000 - more than double the sticker price.

By this measure, every company that ever developed anything has lost money on the deal and American enterprise is surely a waste of effort and capitalism is perpetually a losing proposition.

This ranks as quite possibly the stupidest thing I've read, ever.
 
2012-09-12 12:43:04 PM  
I just want to see a press release of 'Pentagon buys new electric vehicles' followed by a picture of a bunch of jeeps/humvees/etc with Tesla cannons on top.
 
2012-09-12 12:43:12 PM  
Let them drive F22s instead
 
2012-09-12 12:44:38 PM  

jehovahs witness protection: After seeing how government workers abuse the perks of having a free car and free gas, I suspect that there will be NO savings as these people will use the "free" car as their personal vehicle and it will be just another botched government plan that will do nothing more than waste tax payer money.


Most private companies that provide either a car, gas cards, or travel expenses have to deal with abuse as well. I see it happen daily.

That said, this could drive down the abuse, depending on how reimbursement works, and whether or not they cap monthly gas usage. If employees recharge batteries on their home 120V, and there is no reimbursement for home electrical bills, then that will drive down what they pay out in gas expenditures. These are likely leased rather than purchased, so the lower gas bills could potentially equalize or even lessen the overall monthly cost vs new domestic gas-only vehicles.
 
2012-09-12 12:46:12 PM  
They're going to be the new targets for military exercises.
 
2012-09-12 12:46:30 PM  

Infernalist: So, the pentagon orders a bunch of cars that are good for the environment...from an American company... and this is a bad thing.

Could someone tell me what part is actually outrage-inducing? Maybe I missed a critical detail in there.


If they're overpaying for these cars, relative to a more reasonably priced alternative, that is the issue. People aren't buying electric cars because the Volts aren't cost effective relative to the alternative. Why should we shrug if the govt uses taxpayer money to buy vehicles that will end up costing the taxpayer more?

/didn't RTFA.
 
2012-09-12 12:47:11 PM  
How DARE Fartbongo buy a bunch of American-made cars with taxpayer money, and take steps to reduce our dependence on Middle East oil.

Truly history's greatest monster.
 
2012-09-12 12:47:28 PM  

coeyagi: 1500000 dollars for a Volt.


Citation? Oh, wait, you don't have one.

Here we go... 39.145 base MSRP with taxes/tags/freight added in. For the fun, let's say that adds up to 41k a pop.

For 1500... that's a cool 615,000. Likely less, for such a large bulk order.
 
2012-09-12 12:48:21 PM  
Not feeling the outrage.
The Volt is the kind of car we need, and better sales will encourage better technology.
 
2012-09-12 12:49:30 PM  

JRoo: I demand the government purchase nothing but hummers and the biggest pickup trucks they can find!


This is what they should drive. It's the largest production pick-up truck in the world, get's about 9 miles to the gallon and comes standard with six sets of truck nuts.

thefuntimesguide.com
 
2012-09-12 12:51:13 PM  

Cinaed: coeyagi: 1500000 dollars for a Volt.

Citation? Oh, wait, you don't have one.

Here we go... 39.145 base MSRP with taxes/tags/freight added in. For the fun, let's say that adds up to 41k a pop.

For 1500... that's a cool 615,000. Likely less, for such a large bulk order.


The point - you're missing it.

It has nothing to do with the actual item, the Volt (which I have no problem with them purchasing), just the greater political climate of the DoD spending like drunken soldiers and we're talking about f*cking over millions of Americans.
 
2012-09-12 12:51:46 PM  

serial_crusher: y'know, I did the math when I was looking at these, and I just don't drive enough for the savings on gas to make up for the higher sticker price.
Government agencies will probably use their cars a lot more often than I do though.


It's not just gas. Nothing wears out parts on a car like a internal combustion engine. You won't save a colossal amount of money on gas but you'll save a ton on replacement parts due to wear and tear.
 
2012-09-12 12:51:58 PM  

coeyagi: Cinaed: coeyagi: 1500000 dollars for a Volt.

Citation? Oh, wait, you don't have one.

Here we go... 39.145 base MSRP with taxes/tags/freight added in. For the fun, let's say that adds up to 41k a pop.

For 1500... that's a cool 615,000. Likely less, for such a large bulk order.

The point - you're missing it.

It has nothing to do with the actual item, the Volt (which I have no problem with them purchasing), just the greater political climate of the DoD spending like drunken soldiers and we're talking about f*cking over millions of Americans.


Also, the 1500000 figure should have been a hint of snark and hyperbole.
 
2012-09-12 12:52:48 PM  

Cinaed: coeyagi: 1500000 dollars for a Volt.

Citation? Oh, wait, you don't have one.

Here we go... 39.145 base MSRP with taxes/tags/freight added in. For the fun, let's say that adds up to 41k a pop.

For 1500... that's a cool 615,000. Likely less, for such a large bulk order.


You must be new to government acquisitions. We'll pay a premium on removing features that come standard. After all is said and done, the vehicles will probably cost the DOD $100k/each. (your life will suck if you get stuck with one of these and you're the flight/squadron/group vehicle custodian)
 
2012-09-12 12:54:04 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2012-09-12 12:54:09 PM  
So what is Obama being driven around in? Hint, it's not a Chevy Volt.
 
2012-09-12 12:54:42 PM  

jehovahs witness protection: After seeing how government workers abuse the perks of having a free car and free gas, I suspect that there will be NO savings as these people will use the "free" car as their personal vehicle and it will be just another botched government plan that will do nothing more than waste tax payer money.


Do you understand how an electric car works?
 
2012-09-12 12:54:44 PM  
Next thing you know, the military will be looking at more fuel efficient tanks when we are fighting wars against the countries that supply us all our oil
 
2012-09-12 12:54:50 PM  

xsive: serial_crusher: y'know, I did the math when I was looking at these, and I just don't drive enough for the savings on gas to make up for the higher sticker price.
Government agencies will probably use their cars a lot more often than I do though.

GM basically said you'd never recoup the cost on a volt, it's more like the first prius, by purchasing / driving you're making a statement more than saving yourself some cash.


Sounds like we need some incentive to get the ball rolling on electric vehicles and to drive the price down for the average consumer. Sounds like a job for the government. Maybe we could have some subsidies or start by purchasing them for government employees. Oh but I forgot, everything that doesn't have to do with war or farmers = bad spending.
 
2012-09-12 12:57:31 PM  

coeyagi: The point - you're missing it.

It has nothing to do with the actual item, the Volt (which I have no problem with them purchasing), just the greater political climate of the DoD spending like drunken soldiers and we're talking about f*cking over millions of Americans.


Money is going to get spent. I'd rather 1500 Volts get bought by the DoD than another F-22.

And just as often, the DoD is forced to buy shiat by those lovely little congress-critters rather than by any decision of their own.

Budgeting is fun.
 
2012-09-12 12:57:31 PM  

cig-mkr: So what is Obama being driven around in? Hint, it's not a Chevy Volt.


This is how you Strawman.
 
2012-09-12 12:58:36 PM  

Cinaed: coeyagi: The point - you're missing it.

It has nothing to do with the actual item, the Volt (which I have no problem with them purchasing), just the greater political climate of the DoD spending like drunken soldiers and we're talking about f*cking over millions of Americans.

Money is going to get spent. I'd rather 1500 Volts get bought by the DoD than another F-22.
And just as often, the DoD is forced to buy shiat by those lovely little congress-critters rather than by any decision of their own.

Budgeting is fun.


Yes, I see no disagreement here. Not relevant to my point. Going with this, I am not sure where.
 
2012-09-12 12:58:51 PM  

Cinaed: Money is going to get spent. I'd rather 1500 Volts get bought by the DoD than another F-22.


The DoD could buy 5000 Volts for the cost of one F-22.
 
2012-09-12 01:00:55 PM  

coeyagi: 500 dollars for a hammer
300 dollars for a toilet seat
1500000 dollars for a Volt.


You are aware that there are many things that the government buys or operates that don't take standard parts?

If you work on fuel systems for aircraft, missiles, the space shuttle, big ships, etc., you probably don't want to be using a $20 Craftsman hammer made of steel (which can spark). It wouldn't surprise me that a space-rated hammer would cost a crapload of money because (a) there's a lot of design work that goes into it, (b) it's made out of some esoteric material in order to meet the performance requirements (e.g. stability in vacuum, extreme swings of temperature, non-sparking, etc.), (c) it's a custom, low-volume part, and (d) there's really no mass market for it. Toilet seats for the space station or certain large military aircraft aren't just something you can buy at Home Depot.

The vacuum pumps in my lab are pretty standard Pfeiffer turbomolecular pumps, but they still cost ~$8,000 because Pfeffier isn't making a brazillion of them and selling them at Wal-Mart. The cold cathode vacuum gauges are about $1,000 each for the same reason. The custom-built sample melting oven costs as much as a small house in many areas in the US because it has very strict performance requirements (the crucible must reach 1,800°C, be stable under ultrahigh vacuum and in an pure oxygen environment, be weldable to high-purity stainless steel [iridium and stainless steel have dissimilar coefficients of thermal expansion, so we have to weld the iridium crucible to a platinum base, which is in turn welded to the stainless steel], have minimal outgassing, and have the heating filament capable of being operating in air, to name but a few). Low-volume parts made for the government are likely to be a hell of a lot more expensive than you'd expect for ordinary household items.
 
2012-09-12 01:01:34 PM  

coeyagi: Yes, I see no disagreement here. Not relevant to my point. Going with this, I am not sure where.


No inherent disagreement. Always get a lil testy with the random bs price values tossed about when it's not more than a minute's worth of looking to come up with a more complete view of the end cost of the idea.
 
2012-09-12 01:02:05 PM  
The Volt is alot better than the K cars that Reagan forced the Army to buy to bail out Chevy.
 
2012-09-12 01:02:41 PM  
I love the "well, government wastes a bunch of money on this, so wasting a bunch of money on that is no big deal" argument.

It gives such great hope for the future.
 
2012-09-12 01:03:49 PM  

Cletus C.: I love the "well, government wastes a bunch of money on this, so wasting a bunch of money on that is no big deal" argument.

It gives such great hope for the future.


how is the government wasting a bunch of money on this?
 
2012-09-12 01:04:00 PM  

dumbobruni: beta_plus: Why is the Obama administration racist to the Japanese?

[www.blogcdn.com image 630x419]

[www.blogcdn.com image 450x299]

/if you're going to buy electric/hybrid cars, at least buy good ones

why are you racist against Americans?


I'm racist against the UAW. They make bad cars and enjoy and take pride in making bad cars. The LEAF will soon be made in Smyrna, TN. Try harder next time, racist.
 
2012-09-12 01:05:31 PM  
beta_plus:

I'm racist against the UAW. They make bad cars and enjoy and take pride in making bad cars. The LEAF will soon be made in Smyrna, TN. Try harder next time, racist.

Aren't the UAW Americans as well? Also how can you say that they take pride in making bad cars?
 
2012-09-12 01:05:37 PM  
Sometimes there is more to a government decision than just raw budget numbers. The DOD has stated that Energy Independence is a long-term security risk for the country. As such, it makes sense for new vehicle purchases to be in accordance with that goal, even if they cost more.
 
2012-09-12 01:06:13 PM  
After such an epic fail on green energy jobs by Obama,

Yeah, no.
 
2012-09-12 01:07:48 PM  
GM should just call themselves something like PeoplesCar and get it over with
 
2012-09-12 01:09:43 PM  

hillbillypharmacist: Buffalo Obumper Goes About His Daily Business, Eats Some Breakfast, Attends Meetings,Talks On The Phone With People About The Thing In Libya And Netenyahu. Most Corrupt Administration Ever.


Look at that biatch, eating crackers like she owns the place.
 
2012-09-12 01:10:11 PM  

jehovahs witness protection: After seeing how government workers abuse the perks of having a free car and free gas, I suspect that there will be NO savings as these people will use the "free" car as their personal vehicle and it will be just another botched government plan that will do nothing more than waste tax payer money.


Good one.

Now compare the carbon outputs of the dinobone-powered cars with the electricity-powered ones.
 
2012-09-12 01:10:54 PM  
One of my most favorite things about the Republicans trashing green energy is when they complain about the DoD trying to get our military off of fossil fuels. Because we should definitely have our war machinery powered by the stuff that comes from the people we are most often fighting with.
 
2012-09-12 01:12:08 PM  

Infernalist: So, the pentagon orders a bunch of cars that are good for the environment...from an American company... and this is a bad thing.

Could someone tell me what part is actually outrage-inducing? Maybe I missed a critical detail in there.


The cars get more than 5 mpg and are therefore an affront to capitalism and freedom. He's trying to cram emissionless vehicles down our throats!!!!!?!
 
2012-09-12 01:13:16 PM  

Jackson Herring: Cinaed: Money is going to get spent. I'd rather 1500 Volts get bought by the DoD than another F-22.

The DoD could buy 5000 Volts for the cost of one F-22.


Ok Mr "smarty pants math guy", how many Amps could they buy?

revimgs.bevnet.com
 
2012-09-12 01:14:22 PM  

dumbobruni: the most common trade in for the Volt? The Prius.

the prius also was a big money loser for Toyota. it took Toyota seven years to see a profit on it.

now its one of the companies biggest contributors to profits.

the lesson here? Americans should only focus on the short term, and give up if life is too hard.


2007 Prius driver here. I would trade my current car in for a Volt, not sure if I would if I had a newer model. That is, if I had anywhere to plug the damn thing in. My apartment's lot is kinda far from the building.

The Volt might have greater success if it wasn't stupid expensive and maintained a larger charge. 40 miles? That's pathetic. For 40 miles they should have drastically shortened the charge time. That way you could actually stand to charge the thing from an apartment building. I have to charge the thing overnight? I am expecting at least three days worth of travel on it. But this is America - we can't risk that sweet sweet oil and defense industry money.
 
2012-09-12 01:16:51 PM  

All2morrowsparTs: beta_plus:

I'm racist against the UAW. They make bad cars and enjoy and take pride in making bad cars. The LEAF will soon be made in Smyrna, TN. Try harder next time, racist.

Aren't the UAW Americans as well? Also how can you say that they take pride in making bad cars?


Because he hates America.
 
2012-09-12 01:17:47 PM  

Cletus C.: I love the "well, government wastes a bunch of money on this, so wasting a bunch of money on that is no big deal" argument.

It gives such great hope for the future.


What's wasteful about this?
 
2012-09-12 01:17:59 PM  

Edsel: Because we should definitely have our war machinery powered by the stuff that comes from the people we are most often fighting with.


We're fighting with Canada and Mexico?

Ok sure, Poutine and Drugs, I'll give you that.
 
2012-09-12 01:20:10 PM  

liam76: xsive: serial_crusher: y'know, I did the math when I was looking at these, and I just don't drive enough for the savings on gas to make up for the higher sticker price.
Government agencies will probably use their cars a lot more often than I do though.

GM basically said you'd never recoup the cost on a volt, it's more like the first prius, by purchasing / driving you're making a statement more than saving yourself some cash.

Where did they say that?


Id have to do a lot of digging, I live in the detroit area and most likely heard it on public radio. They were interviewing folks from the auto industry almost daily when the volt was first released. It was probably not an official company position, so my bad on saying "GM" said that, when it was most likely a minion.
 
2012-09-12 01:20:51 PM  
The report took GM's huge investment in the pioneering car and divided it by the meager sales to date and concluded that each car costs the company nearly $90,000 - more than double the sticker price.

So, the "investment divided by units sold" calculation means every product ever produced loses money until they sell enough units. Sure, sales are disappointing so far, but this retarded calculation means that that number is reduced for every unit sold. I wonder if they'll do this same calculation a year or two from now? I doubt it.
 
2012-09-12 01:21:04 PM  
But Hummers would have been just fine.
 
2012-09-12 01:21:12 PM  

skullkrusher: GM should just call themselves something like PeoplesCar and get it over with


I see what you did there.
 
2012-09-12 01:21:39 PM  
beta_plus: Why is the Obama administration racist to the Japanese?

[waterboards beta_plus for fifteen days straight]

Damn, why do we have to put up with your insane shiat?
 
2012-09-12 01:22:50 PM  
yeah the military has been going green for quite some time
link

wait till they find out fartbama is using taxpayer money for solar, wind and geothermal
 
2012-09-12 01:24:44 PM  

nyseattitude: Jackson Herring: Cinaed: Money is going to get spent. I'd rather 1500 Volts get bought by the DoD than another F-22.

The DoD could buy 5000 Volts for the cost of one F-22.

Ok Mr "smarty pants math guy", how many Amps could they buy?

[revimgs.bevnet.com image 194x275]


The cost of the F-22 is different depending upon who you get your info from. The three most common numbers I found were:
$143 million
$341 million
$177 million

If 1 AMP is $1.54 and 1 F-22 costs $143 million, then you could get 92,857,142 AMPs (before tax)
If 1 AMP is $1.54 and 1 F-22 costs $361 million, then you could get 234,415,584 AMPs (before tax)
If 1 AMP is $1.54 and 1 F-22 costs $177 million, then you could get 114,935,064 AMPs (before tax)

All government spending should henceforth be expressed as AMPs.
 
2012-09-12 01:25:03 PM  

ginandbacon: Of all the things in the DOD budget, this is what the conservatives decide to bunch their panties over?


Well, this morning yes. I don't know what's scheduled for the afternoon and the rest of week.
 
2012-09-12 01:25:21 PM  

More_Like_A_Stain: Cletus C.: I love the "well, government wastes a bunch of money on this, so wasting a bunch of money on that is no big deal" argument.

It gives such great hope for the future.

What's wasteful about this?


If gasoline powered vehicles would be more cost effective (which is apparently the point of view of car buyers, otherwise the Volt would be selling), then any excess cost incurred due to buying Volts is wasteful.
 
2012-09-12 01:27:01 PM  

Tor_Eckman: I have no idea how hard it is to get a writing gig on Fox News, but man does it seem like a sweet job.

As long as you are willing to totally swallow your dignity for easy money.


Rule of Acquisition 109: Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
 
2012-09-12 01:27:36 PM  

The Lone Gunman: serial_crusher: y'know, I did the math when I was looking at these, and I just don't drive enough for the savings on gas to make up for the higher sticker price.
Government agencies will probably use their cars a lot more often than I do though.

It's not just gas. Nothing wears out parts on a car like a internal combustion engine. You won't save a colossal amount of money on gas but you'll save a ton on replacement parts due to wear and tear.


Is that still a thing? I don't really plan to own a car longer than 7-10 years. Been 7 on my current one and I haven't had to replace anything in or near the engine (unless you count oil changes). I think from the math I did a brand new Volt would have taken 20 years to cover the costs vs. chevy's comparable combustion model. Even if replacement parts cut that number down to 15 years, a combustion engine is still a better deal.
 
2012-09-12 01:27:57 PM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: Edsel: Because we should definitely have our war machinery powered by the stuff that comes from the people we are most often fighting with.

We're fighting with Canada and Mexico?


oil is a globally traded commodity
 
2012-09-12 01:29:49 PM  

ginandbacon: Of all the things in the DOD budget, this is what the conservatives decide to bunch their panties over?


Someone should take up a collection to buy the GOP some thongs. Their panties bunch so easily, maybe it's time they stopped wearing the 30-for-$1, belly-button-to-mid-thigh bloomers and go with something a bit more manageable.

Or they could go commando. That seems like a sensible GOP direction - plus, it saves on teh spendingz.
 
2012-09-12 01:29:56 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: If gasoline powered vehicles would be more cost effective (which is apparently the point of view of car buyers, otherwise the Volt would be selling), then any excess cost incurred due to buying Volts is wasteful.


Not the only consideration.

If this was true, why is the military brass wanting to develop biofuels for their naval fleet? Just a bunch of idealistic hippies? Nope. There are simply other considerations.
 
2012-09-12 01:30:13 PM  
Headline reads like a Kelly comic, only serious

o.onionstatic.com
 
2012-09-12 01:30:32 PM  
Like anything this adminstration touches, his "green jobs" are a bust....to start off they made sure that out of the $800 billion stimulus package set aside, $70 billion was for green-energy projects - which $9 billion of that has so far been spent on green jobs....in which the government created 910 new, long-term jobs....grand total for those keeping count: a cost to taxpayers of $9.8 million per job.  What a deal!
 
2012-09-12 01:30:59 PM  

Headso: The_Six_Fingered_Man: Edsel: Because we should definitely have our war machinery powered by the stuff that comes from the people we are most often fighting with.

We're fighting with Canada and Mexico?

oil is a globally traded commodity


No, no, the gas just magically appears out of the refineries.
 
2012-09-12 01:31:04 PM  

Headso: oil is a globally traded commodity


That can be heavily influenced by a cartel. Or haven't you been paying attention.
 
2012-09-12 01:31:52 PM  

karnal: Like anything this adminstration touches, his "green jobs" are a bust....to start off they made sure that out of the $800 billion stimulus package set aside, $70 billion was for green-energy projects - which $9 billion of that has so far been spent on green jobs....in which the government created 910 new, long-term jobs....grand total for those keeping count: a cost to taxpayers of $9.8 million per job.  What a deal!


So jobs was the only positive externality and only goal.
 
2012-09-12 01:31:53 PM  

theknuckler_33: The report took GM's huge investment in the pioneering car and divided it by the meager sales to date and concluded that each car costs the company nearly $90,000 - more than double the sticker price.

So, the "investment divided by units sold" calculation means every product ever produced loses money until they sell enough units. Sure, sales are disappointing so far, but this retarded calculation means that that number is reduced for every unit sold. I wonder if they'll do this same calculation a year or two from now? I doubt it.


static.ddmcdn.com
Microsoft chuckles and gives a high-five to Chevrolet. 

"....Forget it, man, they're rolling."

\cost to make 1 xbox 360 = $460
\\"loss" on each xbox 360 produced = $125
\\\xbox 360 profits = $1.36 billion
 
2012-09-12 01:32:26 PM  

cig-mkr: So what is Obama being driven around in? Hint, it's not a Chevy Volt.


How dare the Secret Service force Obama to drive around in the armored towncar (or whatever), paid for by taxpayers, that every other president for the past 50 years has had to drive around in!!!!!!
 
2012-09-12 01:32:27 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: If gasoline powered vehicles would be more cost effective (which is apparently the point of view of car buyers, otherwise the Volt would be selling), then any excess cost incurred due to buying Volts is wasteful.


Government vehicles are not used in the same manner as personal vehicles.

Personal vehicles have no dedicated infrastructure (other than maybe a charging point at home and possibly one at work). People commute regularly, but occasionally take longer-distance trips where frequent stops for charging would be inconvenient.

A military base motor pool seems like an ideal place for these vehicles: they can easily set up dedicated infrastructure (wiring, charging ports, etc.) at the necessary locations on-base, most vehicles are driven around on-base (a geographically limited area) and are not usually taken for longer journeys.off-base.

It's very similar to city buses using natural gas: such vehicles would be impractical for personal use due to the lack of widespread filling stations, but when the buses all come back to the depot at the end of the shift they can be refueled easily.
 
2012-09-12 01:34:12 PM  

bartink: Headso: oil is a globally traded commodity

That can be heavily influenced by a cartel. Or haven't you been paying attention.


your post makes no sense as a reply to mine, you'll have to clarify...
 
2012-09-12 01:34:37 PM  

Hoboclown: Headline reads like a Kelly comic, only serious

[o.onionstatic.com image 630x444]


I...is that supposed to not make sense on purpose?
 
2012-09-12 01:37:04 PM  

Headso: your post makes no sense as a reply to mine, you'll have to clarify...


If you didn't mean to say that its irrelevant that oil is produced on a global market, therefore it doesn't matter what percentage of it comes from folks that might want to screw with us, then do say so. Because that looks like what you were trying to say.
 
2012-09-12 01:38:18 PM  

bartink: Headso: your post makes no sense as a reply to mine, you'll have to clarify...

If you didn't mean to say that its irrelevant that oil is produced on a global market, therefore it doesn't matter what percentage of it comes from folks that might want to screw with us, then do say so. Because that looks like what you were trying to say.


that's what the guy I was responding to was suggesting.
 
2012-09-12 01:38:38 PM  

karnal: Like anything this...


So... the green jobs initiative included money to GM to produce the Volt?
 
2012-09-12 01:39:03 PM  
How about a fleet of Pedo Vans?

encrypted-tbn2.google.com 

images.thetruthaboutcars.com
 
2012-09-12 01:39:16 PM  

heypete: Debeo Summa Credo: If gasoline powered vehicles would be more cost effective (which is apparently the point of view of car buyers, otherwise the Volt would be selling), then any excess cost incurred due to buying Volts is wasteful.

Government vehicles are not used in the same manner as personal vehicles.

Personal vehicles have no dedicated infrastructure (other than maybe a charging point at home and possibly one at work). People commute regularly, but occasionally take longer-distance trips where frequent stops for charging would be inconvenient.

A military base motor pool seems like an ideal place for these vehicles: they can easily set up dedicated infrastructure (wiring, charging ports, etc.) at the necessary locations on-base, most vehicles are driven around on-base (a geographically limited area) and are not usually taken for longer journeys.off-base.

It's very similar to city buses using natural gas: such vehicles would be impractical for personal use due to the lack of widespread filling stations, but when the buses all come back to the depot at the end of the shift they can be refueled easily.


Good points. Improves the possibility that these are not less cost-effective than gas powered vehicles.
 
2012-09-12 01:41:26 PM  
bartink
karnal: Like anything this adminstration touches, his "green jobs" are a bust....to start off they made sure that out of the $800 billion stimulus package set aside, $70 billion was for green-energy projects - which $9 billion of that has so far been spent on green jobs....in which the government created 910 new, long-term jobs....grand total for those keeping count: a cost to taxpayers of $9.8 million per job. What a deal!

So jobs was the only positive externality and only goal.



Of course not.....and I am not suggesting throwing the baby out with the bath water - when the time comes, green jobs should and will be created by the private sector, eager to profit....and that is how it should be.
 
2012-09-12 01:41:39 PM  

Epoch_Zero: Hoboclown: Headline reads like a Kelly comic, only serious

[o.onionstatic.com image 630x444]

I...is that supposed to not make sense on purpose?


Yes.

Not to explain the joke too much, but it's the Onion. Kelly draws cartoons parodying conservative cartoons.
 
2012-09-12 01:43:34 PM  

bartink: But Hummers would have been just fine.


I read that as 'Butt-Hummers' and can't stop laughing.
 
2012-09-12 01:44:10 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: Good points. Improves the possibility that these are not less cost-effective than gas powered vehicles.


Indeed.

Sorry if I'm a bit incoherent: cold medicine does wonders for my congestion but screws with my brain a bit. :-P
 
2012-09-12 01:46:10 PM  

heypete: Debeo Summa Credo: If gasoline powered vehicles would be more cost effective (which is apparently the point of view of car buyers, otherwise the Volt would be selling), then any excess cost incurred due to buying Volts is wasteful.

Government vehicles are not used in the same manner as personal vehicles.

Personal vehicles have no dedicated infrastructure (other than maybe a charging point at home and possibly one at work). People commute regularly, but occasionally take longer-distance trips where frequent stops for charging would be inconvenient.

A military base motor pool seems like an ideal place for these vehicles: they can easily set up dedicated infrastructure (wiring, charging ports, etc.) at the necessary locations on-base, most vehicles are driven around on-base (a geographically limited area) and are not usually taken for longer journeys.off-base.

It's very similar to city buses using natural gas: such vehicles would be impractical for personal use due to the lack of widespread filling stations, but when the buses all come back to the depot at the end of the shift they can be refueled easily.


Forget trying to reason with obvious trolls.
 
2012-09-12 01:49:03 PM  

heypete: Debeo Summa Credo: If gasoline powered vehicles would be more cost effective (which is apparently the point of view of car buyers, otherwise the Volt would be selling), then any excess cost incurred due to buying Volts is wasteful.

Government vehicles are not used in the same manner as personal vehicles.

Personal vehicles have no dedicated infrastructure (other than maybe a charging point at home and possibly one at work). People commute regularly, but occasionally take longer-distance trips where frequent stops for charging would be inconvenient.

A military base motor pool seems like an ideal place for these vehicles: they can easily set up dedicated infrastructure (wiring, charging ports, etc.) at the necessary locations on-base, most vehicles are driven around on-base (a geographically limited area) and are not usually taken for longer journeys.off-base.

It's very similar to city buses using natural gas: such vehicles would be impractical for personal use due to the lack of widespread filling stations, but when the buses all come back to the depot at the end of the shift they can be refueled easily.


That's what I was thinking, and why I asked where the waste was. Unless things have changed drastically since I was in the military, most transport didn't require pick up trucks or heavier vehicles. A lot of staff personnel moved from one place to another via standard sedans. This type of usage would seem to be perfect for the Volt. Short trips, charging stations installed at convenient locations. And with enough charging stations, gasoline usage could be nearly eliminated.
 
2012-09-12 01:56:03 PM  
After such an epic fail on delivering unbiased reporting by Fox News, the legions of drooling morons who watch them were ordered to go see '2016: Obama's America' in masses.
 
2012-09-12 01:58:19 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: heypete: Debeo Summa Credo: If gasoline powered vehicles would be more cost effective (which is apparently the point of view of car buyers, otherwise the Volt would be selling), then any excess cost incurred due to buying Volts is wasteful.

Government vehicles are not used in the same manner as personal vehicles.

Personal vehicles have no dedicated infrastructure (other than maybe a charging point at home and possibly one at work). People commute regularly, but occasionally take longer-distance trips where frequent stops for charging would be inconvenient.

A military base motor pool seems like an ideal place for these vehicles: they can easily set up dedicated infrastructure (wiring, charging ports, etc.) at the necessary locations on-base, most vehicles are driven around on-base (a geographically limited area) and are not usually taken for longer journeys.off-base.

It's very similar to city buses using natural gas: such vehicles would be impractical for personal use due to the lack of widespread filling stations, but when the buses all come back to the depot at the end of the shift they can be refueled easily.

Good points. Improves the possibility that these are not less cost-effective than gas powered vehicles.


I take back my previous comment. You can indeed be reasonable when you want to be.
 
2012-09-12 02:00:19 PM  
Also to my knowledge the top fleet cars and the top consumer cars don't usually match up.
 
2012-09-12 02:04:11 PM  
This seems brilliant to me. Vehicles on military installations are continuously running - anywhere from 4 hours a day for small flightline vehicles and runaround cars to 24 hours for buses during busy times/exercises. And upgrading military bases with charging stations is a relatively cheap investment (and each one will employ local construction workers). Some smaller military organizations are already switching to things like golf carts and Gators for basic on-post tasks.
 
2012-09-12 02:16:01 PM  

karnal: Of course not.....and I am not suggesting throwing the baby out with the bath water - when the time comes, green jobs should and will be created by the private sector, eager to profit....and that is how it should be.


The government can and should jump-start new and support old (steel, food) industries when it affects national security. If you don't think that energy broadly, and oil particularly have anything to do with national security, you aren't paying attention.

We aren't talking about the government subsidizing iPads or something.
 
2012-09-12 02:25:21 PM  

All2morrowsparTs: The Volt is alot better than the K cars that Reagan forced the Army to buy to bail out Chevy

Chrysler.

Grumble, grumble, grumble.
 
2012-09-12 02:27:41 PM  
Since Obama is trying to bankrupt the coal industry, and they won't build new nuclear power plants, I have to wonder where they think we'll get the electricity to power the cars this administration built with our money.
 
2012-09-12 02:29:33 PM  

Kangaroo_Ralph: Since Obama is trying to bankrupt the coal industry, and they won't build new nuclear power plants, I have to wonder where they think we'll get the electricity to power the cars this administration built with our money.


Clearly coal is on the verge of bankruptcy and this is because of Obama. Got any other stupid notions to share?
 
2012-09-12 02:34:40 PM  

Somacandra: Supporting cleaner energy is quite common for local governments as well. In IA government cars are Flex Fueled (they can run on E85). In Phoenix, AZ back in the day the local bus shuttle system ran on compressed natural gas to reduce/eliminate particulates. I've seen many city buses retrofitted to run on biodiesel and even vegetable oil. If you're going to buy fleet vehicles anyway, it makes sense to make them run on domestically produced energy rather than fungible petroleum. That way the government investments go back into the local energy community. Why the Submitter hates American energy independence, I don't know.


Exactly. Fleets that don't travel far from home base are the perfect niche for alternate energy sources, because you don't need a widespread infrastructure.
 
2012-09-12 02:37:03 PM  

Kangaroo_Ralph: Since Obama is trying to bankrupt the coal industry, and they won't build new nuclear power plants, I have to wonder where they think we'll get the electricity to power the cars this administration built with our money.


Just ask Hawaii. The Pacific fleet accounts for 20% of that state's energy use, and has to be shipped thousands of miles to keep both the Navy and Airforce running in that half of the world. The military has deemed it an issue of national security and are now quickly working to eliminate that liability. Link

Hickam Air Force Base: Link Part of the world's largest residential solar array project to to install rooftop solar panels at 120,000 military homes, across most US military bases..
i.i.com.com
 
2012-09-12 02:45:07 PM  

MrSteve007: Kangaroo_Ralph: Since Obama is trying to bankrupt the coal industry, and they won't build new nuclear power plants, I have to wonder where they think we'll get the electricity to power the cars this administration built with our money.

Just ask Hawaii. The Pacific fleet accounts for 20% of that state's energy use, and has to be shipped thousands of miles to keep both the Navy and Airforce running in that half of the world. The military has deemed it an issue of national security and are now quickly working to eliminate that liability. Link

Hickam Air Force Base: Link Part of the world's largest residential solar array project to to install rooftop solar panels at 120,000 military homes, across most US military bases..
[i.i.com.com image 610x372]


Even with all that government money and a guaranteed government market Solyndra still failed? They sucked.
 
2012-09-12 02:48:28 PM  

Mugato: ginandbacon: Of all the things in the DOD budget, this is what the conservatives decide to bunch their panties over?

Of course.


Although if the plan was to launch them via a trebuchet system at foreigners, they would fine with it.
 
2012-09-12 02:50:26 PM  
bartink: Clearly coal is on the verge of bankruptcy and this is because of Obama. Got any other stupid notions to share?

Do you only believe things you read in the New York Times?

Obama said he'd bankrupt the coal industry. It's one of the few promises he's kept.
 
2012-09-12 02:55:25 PM  
Isn't everything the Dept of Defense buys "on taxpayers' dime"? Or is there some private Dept of Defense out there that funds itself through bootrapiness that I don't k now about?
 
2012-09-12 02:56:51 PM  

Cletus C.: Even with all that government money and a guaranteed government market Solyndra still failed?


Those aren't Solyndra panels.

Cletus C.: They sucked.


But this is still true.
 
2012-09-12 02:58:57 PM  
Obama has already has said that if Congress doesn't work with him, he will work around them. Get use to Obama using his Commander in Chief roll to push domestic agendas. He's also getting the Navy to purchase tens of thousands of gallons of biodiesel from a company called Solazyme.

Get use to it GOP or start working with the President.
 
2012-09-12 03:00:42 PM  

Cletus C.: Even with all that government money and a guaranteed government market Solyndra still failed? They sucked.


Solyndra had an unproven product (cylindrical tubes, covered with thin-film PV) and a business plan that planned on conventional PV module prices staying fairly steady. With the advent of the "Great Recession" - the price of regular PV panels plummeted (as supply of silicon over-saturated demand) and manufacturers, backed by the Chinese Government, dumped under-priced panels on the US market. Link

They had a decent product (they cover the Seattle Seahawk's stadium) However they didn't stand a chance in the changing market:
localplanet.com
 
2012-09-12 03:01:41 PM  
This will surely enrage the literally tens of people who were already going to vote for Romney.
 
2012-09-12 03:22:39 PM  

fenianfark: In regard to the GM is losing a brazillion dollars on each Volt nonsense, Jalopnik covered it pretty well.

Really, every new car goes through this stage- the companies have to sell enough to cover the development costs. Hell, if we ran an article using this same logic right when the first two Volts were sold, we could have had an awesome head line that read "GM Loses $500 Million Dollars For Every Volt Sold."


How many new cars going through this stage involve our tax dollars?

Obama Green Jobs 85% failure rate
 
2012-09-12 03:26:01 PM  

Epoch_Zero: The Volt might have greater success if it wasn't stupid expensive and maintained a larger charge. 40 miles? That's pathetic. For 40 miles they should have drastically shortened the charge time. That way you could actually stand to charge the thing from an apartment building. I have to charge the thing overnight? I am expecting at least three days worth of travel on it.


It's a hybrid - 40 miles is the range of the electric engine; for longer journeys the petrol engine recharges the electric one and extends the range to 300+ miles. I guess longer range and faster charging will improve as the technology develops.
 
2012-09-12 03:40:21 PM  

Epoch_Zero: Microsoft chuckles and gives a high-five to Chevrolet.

"....Forget it, man, they're rolling."

\cost to make 1 xbox 360 = $460
\\"loss" on each xbox 360 produced = $125
\\\xbox 360 profits = $1.36 billion


Yeah, but the problem is, when I play Grand Theft Auto in my Chevy, I always get in trouble when I run over the pedestrians.
 
2012-09-12 03:51:15 PM  

hasty ambush: fenianfark: In regard to the GM is losing a brazillion dollars on each Volt nonsense, Jalopnik covered it pretty well.

Really, every new car goes through this stage- the companies have to sell enough to cover the development costs. Hell, if we ran an article using this same logic right when the first two Volts were sold, we could have had an awesome head line that read "GM Loses $500 Million Dollars For Every Volt Sold."

How many new cars going through this stage involve our tax dollars?

Obama Green Jobs 85% failure rate


You don't understand where that figure comes from and what it means. I'll give you a hint. It doesn't show about in the GAO report. It is calculated by a derper like yourself.

"The LGP adhered to most of its established process for reviewing applications, but its actual process differed from its established process at least once on 11 of the 13 applications GAO reviewed. Private lenders who finance energy projects that GAO interviewed found that the LGP's established review process was generally as stringent as or more stringent than their own...
However, GAO found that the reviews that the LGP conducted sometimes differed from its established process in that, for example, actual reviews skipped applicable review steps. In other cases, GAO could not determine whether the LGP had performed some established review steps because of poor documentation."


11 / 13 = 85% but 85% doesn't indicate a failure rate. It apparently an indication on how many reviews were not documented perfectly. Eleven "A- grades" and two "A+ grades" does not = 85% failure and it has absolutely fark all to do with the success of loan guarantees.

Also, I can't even references to this it the linked GAO report so let's just say that it is complete bullshiat and move on with our lives.
 
2012-09-12 04:07:29 PM  

serial_crusher: y'know, I did the math when I was looking at these, and I just don't drive enough for the savings on gas to make up for the higher sticker price.
Government agencies will probably use their cars a lot more often than I do though.


Honestly they're just about perfect for on base. Rig up electrical charging stations in all the base parking lots and roll around base in it basically using it as a glorified golf cart. If you have to run off base for some reason, no worries since the gas tank gives you plenty of range.

/actually my understanding is this is being done to meet mandates about the military being less dependent on fossil fuels
//same reason the army buys a lot of wind and solar energy for its bases
/GM employee
 
2012-09-12 04:35:31 PM  

serial_crusher: Mugato: It's always amusing when people cry about their precious tax dollars and the trivial things the gov't spends "their" money on, given all the truly wasteful gov't spending on bullshiat and the fact that the whole thing is abstract anyway given the size of the debt. You would think people literally get bills in the mail labeled "birth control for that girl's slutty friend" or "electric cars for the DoD.

Funding one ridiculous thing would be bad, but funding a billion ridiculous things is OK?


It has to do with WHAT they tend to get upset about. Lets say I'm making $30,000 a year, yet I've got a $300,000 mortgage, and I'm driving around in a Hummer. The typical argument concerning our budget that people spend their time arguing about are generally equal to $10 dollars of that persons income over a YEAR. Its like having a huge debate if I should pick up pennies from the ground when I'm refusing to get rid of the Hummer or downsize my home
 
2012-09-12 06:36:08 PM  
*Notices Faux News submission*

OK, what really happened?
 
2012-09-12 07:17:29 PM  

palladiate: So, what I'm getting here, that in the event of a strategic attack on our oil supply, we shouldn't have a plan to transport our Defense Department?


Just plug a conservative gas bag into your car. We'll be fine.
 
2012-09-13 01:15:32 AM  

Wyalt Derp: Epoch_Zero: The Volt might have greater success if it wasn't stupid expensive and maintained a larger charge. 40 miles? That's pathetic. For 40 miles they should have drastically shortened the charge time. That way you could actually stand to charge the thing from an apartment building. I have to charge the thing overnight? I am expecting at least three days worth of travel on it.

It's a hybrid - 40 miles is the range of the electric engine; for longer journeys the petrol engine recharges the electric one and extends the range to 300+ miles. I guess longer range and faster charging will improve as the technology develops.


the Volt's total range is 400.

the new Ford C-Max plugin gets 20 with electric only, and Toyota Prius plugin manages 15 miles, but both have 550 miles of total range. the differences in mileage are due to size constraints. the Volt has a huge battery and a small gas tank, the other two have a smaller battery and a regular size gas tank.
 
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