MurphyMurphy: This is why terrorism must be addressed as a matter of law enforcement not one of military (war) response. The difference may seem subtle but it makes all the difference in the world.Until the heads in this nation wrap themselves around that fact we will chase our tails pausing only the times we get lucky and chomp down biting ourselves.And the same goes for any "war on (insert abstract idea here)". It's both incorrect and counterproductive.
Geotpf: If it wasn't order by a nation or somebody acting on behalf of a nation, it's a criminal act, not an act of war.
MurphyMurphy: Wicked Chinchilla: Now we get to the complicated part. Because it is exceedingly unlikely the attack was a result of any government our response cannot and will not be simple. We can't diplomatically scold anyone, surgically strike infrastructure, formally protest to the UN. We have very, very few options for a response.This is why terrorism must be addressed as a matter of law enforcement not one of military (war) response. The difference may seem subtle but it makes all the difference in the world.Until the heads in this nation wrap themselves around that fact we will chase our tails pausing only the times we get lucky and chomp down biting ourselves.And the same goes for any "war on (insert abstract idea here)". It's both incorrect and counterproductive.
Somacandra: The Front Page of the NYT in Submitter's link. I see nothing anywhere about it.
Wicked Chinchilla: Now we get to the complicated part. Because it is exceedingly unlikely the attack was a result of any government our response cannot and will not be simple. We can't diplomatically scold anyone, surgically strike infrastructure, formally protest to the UN. We have very, very few options for a response.Thats it.
sprawl15: Geotpf: If it wasn't order by a nation or somebody acting on behalf of a nation, it's a criminal act, not an act of war.The 9/11 AUMF was an exercise of war powers against a non-state actor.
bartink: Its both. We have decimated Al Qaeda militarily in areas where we can't get them to arrest them. There is a reason they choose remote shiatholes to hole up in. Unfortunately, this means killing innocents with the bad guys.But we do need to do good intelligence work to track down and find these guys and arrest, if possible, and kill, if not. And, btw, this is exactly what is happening.
Gulper Eel: But it shouldn't be that hard to figure out who the clerics are who stir up the shiat. They're not exactly shy about themselves. If we feel like being nice, we can let them know that they have one chance to cut the crap before Mr. Drone stops by.
Geotpf: See my previous comment.
Geotpf: Also, just because something isn't an act of war doesn't mean using the military to counter such isn't appropiate.
MurphyMurphy: I don't think you understand the subject matter here.
Publikwerks: [dronewarsuk.files.wordpress.com image 800x433]I'm a drone//Meant to do that in one post, accidentally hit submit
sprawl15: Geotpf: See my previous comment.Your previous comment appears to make the same mistake: that acts of war can only occur between state actors.Geotpf: Also, just because something isn't an act of war doesn't mean using the military to counter such isn't appropiate.I'm not talking about the value of military action.
bdub77: So let's see if we can sort the timeline out as close as possible:- A Jewish director, Sam Bacile (More like Im Becile), a California real estate developer who identifies himself as an Israeli Jew, wrote and directed a movie that depicts Muhammad as a pedo/womanizer/fraud. Which is probably true but let's be honest, an asshole thing to do.- This movie was bankrolled by over 100 jewish donors and was promoted by Terry Jones, who if anyone has not heard the name before is a 'Christian' asshole who has incited international violence in the past and was on the Secret Service watch list.- A 13-minute trailer for the film was first uploaded to YouTube in July, but did not receive much attention.- A week ago the trailer got translated into Arabic and reposted on the same YouTube channel. Things get interesting-er.- All of a sudden, super butthurt by Islamists as they start seeing the trailer.- There's a protest last night at the Libyan embassy. There were obviously some security problems because some of the protesters were in fact terrorists from the Ansar al-Shari'ah organization.- They got into the embassy and killed a bunch of people, including the US ambassador.- The Egyptian embassy, also facing protests and not wanting to be murdered, denounced the hatred that was directed at Islam, obviously an attempt to defuse the situation there. "The Embassy of the United States in Cairo condemns the continuing efforts by misguided individuals to hurt the religious feelings of Muslims - as we condemn efforts to offend believers of all religions," the embassy said in a statement published online.- Mitt Romney, who knows nothing about international politics but is running for President and sees this as a chance to attack the president on foreign policy, said "I'm outraged by the attacks on American diplomatic missions in Libya and Egypt and by the death of an American consulate worker in Benghazi," and went on to say, "It's disgraceful that the Obama administration's Weeners was not to condemn attacks on our diplomatic missions, but to sympathize with those who waged the attacks." Which is just a bunch of spin.- The US government said what Egypt said was not an official US stance.- Hillary clarified the US's position and said "Some have sought to justify this vicious behavior as a response to inflammatory material posted on the Internet. The United States deplores any intentional effort to denigrate the religious beliefs of others. But let me be clear: There is never any justification for violent acts of this kind."- Some newspapers picked up on the killings late and didn't have time to get them to press.And probably somewhere in the background some Israelis are sitting back in the aftermath of the attacks and evilly twiddling their thumbs.
Geotpf: I absolutely agree, unless said terrorism is ordered by, or in any way supported by, a government. For example, the Tailban and al Queda were close to one in the same, so 9/11 was an act of war by the de facto government of Afghanistan and an invasion of such was absolutely justified, IMHO.There's no indication that the Libyian or Egyptian governments supported these attacks, so that caveat doesn't apply in this case.
Moopy Mac: Gulper Eel: Moopy Mac: Am I missing something?"U.S Envoy to Libya Is Killed in Attack" is the top story on the front page.That's the constantly-updating website front page.TFA is about the print front page. And yeah, lots of people still buy the Times that way.So what was Subby's point?
sigdiamond2000: Tigger: Gulper Eel: cryinoutloud: There's nothing that makes us stronger against the extremists than fighting among ourselves.Yeah, mobthink is far more effective.You're deriving psychological pleasure from a childish attempt to wind people up about the death of a US envoy. Doesn't it ever cross your mind to be a little less selfish than useful when something bad happens?The problem is that he's an asshole. Assholes tend to be assholes about things.
cancon: RIP Vile Rat
TabASlotB: Then I'm going to post this: Bush Administration on 2006 Danish Cartoons: "We Certainly Understand Why Muslims Would Find These Images Offensive"
Infernalist: "I stand with Americans, all civilized people around the world and I stand side-by-side with the President of the United States when I say that this deplorable act of violence shall 'not' stand and we shall find justice together."
SlothB77: Holy shiate, the two embassy attacks didn't even make the NY Times front page? Even MSNBC is blushing at that.
rufus-t-firefly: Gulper Eel: hammettman: And said events may have occured after said deadline.The NY Daily News and the NY Post got it up just fine.Do they have print editions produced all over the country?
Gulper Eel: Also a cowardly reaction.
Bocasio: The Republican AM radio shows have startedThey are working themselves into a latherI here joy in the farker asking "Have the Libyans taken over the embassy yet ?"I have nothing but contempt for Republicans now
Somacandra: [i.imgur.com image 348x640] The Front Page of the NYT in Submitter's link. I see nothing anywhere about it.
BSABSVR: Gulper Eel: Somacandra: In the heat of rapidly changing cultural conditionsRapidly changing? Looks like their culture's still stuck somewhere around 800 AD.I have to say that I am just thrilled, that fat f*ck Gulper Eel, located safely behind his freedom laptop is able to sternly, (but fairly) judge people who were just trying to save their lives 3,000 miles away.
Karma Curmudgeon: coeyagi: Kazan: fark you farking muslim extremists, and fark your pedophile raider 'prophet' Muhammad.This could be Mad Fark Libs.fark you farking Mormon extremists and fark your pedophile raider 'prophet' Joseph Smith.fark you farking Nittany Lion extremists and fark your pedophile raider 'prophet' Jerry Sandusky.
MurphyMurphy: Gulper Eel: Also a cowardly reaction.So respectful and measured is cowardly now?People that lash out emotionally and illogically at everything they perceive to threaten them are the true cowards.Bravery is maintaining a cool head in the face of fear.Of all the volumes I could write on what I found lacking and wrong about Bush, his response there would not be among them. I would also commend him for trying to explain to the nation the difference between all Muslims and the ones that attacked us.Unfortunately, the cowboy bullshiat and 'war on terrorism' bits was the drowning warblegargle that muted what correct actions he made.
shotglasss: Word now is that Obama had advance knowledge of the attack but did nothing about it.
hammettman: Mitt has doubled down on his derp with his news conference. Smirking like a 10 year old who thinks he's just ratted out an enemy into detention. He's farking toast. Even establishment republicans are distancing themselves from this stinking turd.
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