So the answer to the problem of ID laws preventing otherwise eligible voters from voting is to "be related to a famous rich guy".

Yeah, I see a logistical problem right off the bat there.

/Still remember Cramer's epic rant 5 minutes before Bear Sterns went bowl-swirling after months of touting their asses.
//Thanks for the heads up, Buddy!

serial_crusher: y'know, it's the elderly who have the most problems with this. Let's just put an age minimum on it. If you were born before, say, 1970, you don't need ID. Problem solved, everybody happy.

But then the massive Secret Islamo-Kenyan Voter Fraud Conspiracy will flood our polling places with millions of ineligible, fraudulent agents!

McKnight said the agency recently began offering a "safety net" form of photo identification, which is given to voters lack a birth certificate but have a Social Security number.

Yeah, I predict that the far right conservatives are going to be totally fine with that

And if the authorities are willing to do this for all of their citizens... I'd be okay with that.

Helping the father of a loudmouth who gives out dubious financial advice ain't gonna cut it.

I'm confused. How do I put this in my "do the opposite of everything Jim Cramer recommends" portfolio? I've made 15,000% in the last 6 weeks already.

Tomorrow the voter ID law is supposed to go before the Pennsylvania supreme court, which may strike it down before the election.

somedude210: downstairs: All politics aside, how doesn't someone have a social security number?  How can you go through even the simplest of a life in America without one?
 
I mean I know people who essentially "live off the grid".  They're cool people, but a little nuts.  But even they have a SSN... even if they don't use it for anything.

Born before 1933 and just never picked one up?

/I think SS went into effect in '33, could be wrong though

SS made it's first payouts in 1937, but was limited to a relatively small number of people.

It got fixed because you're Jim Farking Cramer and you have a board full of sound effects that magically incorrectly predicts the stock market.

Shine on you crazy teabagging moron....

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Three Crooked Squirrels: serial_crusher: y'know, it's the elderly who have the most problems with this. Let's just put an age minimum on it. If you were born before, say, 1970, you don't need ID. Problem solved, everybody happy.

42 is now 'elderly'?

Yeah, we need a better metric... distance from your nipples to your belt buckle, perhaps. Or number of onions tied to your belt.

Types of music you refer to as "that noise".

Huh. So this is a problem that wealthy white people can easily fix? Color me surprised.

downstairs: I can fathom the few specific circumstances... just not sure how you make it through life in America... especially in the last 15 years... without one.

Privileged guys on an internet board can't fathom how millions of people get through life in America without a state issued photo id? No shiat.

How does this sorry shiat sack still have a job? No weatherman with his rate of bed-shiatting could get work reporting the forecast for Antarctica.

Aexia: downstairs: I can fathom the few specific circumstances... just not sure how you make it through life in America... especially in the last 15 years... without one.

Privileged guys on an internet board can't fathom how millions of people get through life in America without a state issued photo id? No shiat.

Christ, this.

I have a friend who didn't get a SSN until he was 16 (small town, everyone knew his grandparents and parents so school wasn't exactly an issue), got and subsequently lost his license, and has now happily made it the past two years sans photo ID. Signed a lease, buys booze and cigarettes, whatever. Living in Detroit kinda makes it easier.

He'll have to get a new license in two more years, IIRC, when the current-but-not-physically-on-him license expires. Not to vote, though. Because at least our Republican governor isn't a complete disenfranchising douchebag.

somedude210: I don't know why but I read the headline in Billy Mays' voice

JIMMY CRAMER HERE WITH THE AMAZING HERP-A-DERP, ABLE TO DERP YOUR HERP AT TWICE THE DERP.

Hell, just spend the $140 for a passport.

Oh, and he works. At a national chain, no less. The job before that was a maintenance/building manager. I feel like he lost his ID before the building manager job, but he's definitely gainfully employed without a government issued photo ID right now. Just his social and his private school expired college ID.

Aexia: downstairs: I can fathom the few specific circumstances... just not sure how you make it through life in America... especially in the last 15 years... without one.

Privileged guys on an internet board can't fathom how millions of people get through life in America without a state issued photo id? No shiat.

He specifically stated SSN, genius.

Jake Havechek: Shine on you crazy teabagging moron....

I think you're thinking of Rick Santelli

What a smokescreen--use an absentee ballot.

Did I miss something? Cramer tweets that his dad will be wrongfully disenfranchised by this law, officials in PA come to his rescue because of his high profile, Cramer tweets about it drawing more attention to the fact that this law is wrong... therefore Cramer is a dick because of it?

Jim Crow laws were effectively racist.
Voter ID laws are effectively racist.

There is more than one way to prevent in person vote fraud. Voter ID laws are not the only way, but Republicans are only interested in effectively racist options that benefit only their party.

serial_crusher: y'know, it's the elderly who have the most problems with this. Let's just put an age minimum on it. If you were born before, say, 1970, you don't need ID. Problem solved, everybody happy.

That's perfect! All you have do is show proof of your birthdate. With a photo to prove it's your birthdate.

BSABSVR: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Three Crooked Squirrels: serial_crusher: y'know, it's the elderly who have the most problems with this. Let's just put an age minimum on it. If you were born before, say, 1970, you don't need ID. Problem solved, everybody happy.

42 is now 'elderly'?

Yeah, we need a better metric... distance from your nipples to your belt buckle, perhaps. Or number of onions tied to your belt.

Types of music you refer to as "that noise".

Rock & Roll = super-elderly
Hip Hop = might be elderly
Dubstep = not elderly

She comes in colors everywhere: serial_crusher: y'know, it's the elderly who have the most problems with this. Let's just put an age minimum on it. If you were born before, say, 1970, you don't need ID. Problem solved, everybody happy.

That's perfect! All you have do is show proof of your birthdate. With a photo to prove it's your birthdate.

you already have to prove you are over the age of 18

See? Problem solved. All we need to do is make sure everyone who might be disenfranchised has a relative with a few million dollars and access to various news outlets.

bootman: Voter ID laws are effectively racist.

There's nothing inherently wrong with voter ID laws. The problem isn't the law, the problem is the REASON republicans are pushing these laws (because they want to fraudulently influence elections in their favor) and the timing. If they'd passed these laws in an off year so there was plenty of time to sort out the problems there would be no issue but, of course, since the whole point is to rig the vote they passed it only months before a major election so that they could intentionally trip up legitimate voters and keep them away from the polls with red tape.

Republicans have literally attacked the very foundation of American democracy.

bootman: Voter ID laws are effectively racist.

Jim Cramer's dad is black?

torr5962: What a smokescreen--use an absentee ballot.

In my state you're supposed to be unable to vote to get an absentee ballot. You have to sign a form affirming you cannot make it to the polls for one of a select set of reasons so I assume they could get you for perjury if you were to lie.

Kentucky registered voters may vote at the precinct on election day or, if eligible, may cast an absentee ballot by mail or in the county clerk's office prior to election day. Kentucky law does not provide for early voting or unexcused absentee voting.

soy_bomb: bootman: Voter ID laws are effectively racist.

Jim Cramer's dad is black?

worse. J00

Citizenship can now be bough with enough cash or influence. Who would have guessed?

Now I'm just a simple Canadian but here's a compromise that I think will work for everyone involved. Yes make people have photo ID to vote, but for the next election in 2014. Obviously lots of people are having difficulties getting their ID in time for this election season. take 2 years to do it properly and everyone is happy.

/There was that so hard?
//Give me money.

Voter ID laws also place an extra burden on poor women who are or have been married and have a different last name than what is on their birth certificate. Copies of birth certificates and marriage certificates aren't free.

Representative of the unwashed masses: Now I'm just a simple Canadian but here's a compromise that I think will work for everyone involved. Yes make people have photo ID to vote, but for the next election in 2014. Obviously lots of people are having difficulties getting their ID in time for this election season. take 2 years to do it properly and everyone is happy.

/There was that so hard?
//Give me money.

Racist.

Representative of the unwashed masses: Now I'm just a simple Canadian but here's a compromise that I think will work for everyone involved. Yes make people have photo ID to vote, but for the next election in 2014. Obviously lots of people are having difficulties getting their ID in time for this election season. take 2 years to do it properly and everyone is happy.

/There was that so hard?
//Give me money.

That wouldn't meet the stated goal of the laws to swing the election to Romney.

Marcus Aurelius: serial_crusher: Marcus Aurelius: The DOT doesn't like her documents

Do they not have a published list of accepted documents? Seems like that should be a straightforward case of "hey, here's the documents. Oh? Well your website says they're good enough. Let me talk to your manager."

I'm not saying I don't believe you, just lamenting the state of government bureaucracy that farks up a seemingly easy task.

She was born a bastard, and her birth certificate name is different from her social security name and the name she got married under. She's never had a passport or drivers license, so the only docs she has are her birth certificate, SSN, and the papers involved with her marriages. The DOT no likey.

This does bring up the general problem that women traditionally change their names and so have extra hoops in getting ID. Proving your identity can mean not just having a birth certificate, but also all the potentially many marriage and divorce/death certificates involved in your name odyssey. All it would take is one bureaucrat who wants to make a fuss about one of the certified copies being stamped four times rather than five to cause headaches.

Vegan Meat Popsicle: bootman: Voter ID laws are effectively racist.

There's nothing inherently wrong with voter ID laws

That's why I qualified my assertion with "effectively", not "inherently" or (arguably) "intentionally".

Poor folks in the USA are more likely to be Black or Latino. Poor folks are less likely to own a car. Folks who do not own a car are less likely to have state issued photo ID. This is the logic that our Republican friends are relying on for electoral viability.

Why does it seem urgent to enact voter ID laws 3 months from an election? Would it not have been more timely and appropriate around 3 years ago?

And I guarantee you this whole thing dies down after the election.

This is just another way the rich and powerful are tying to silence and discard the poor in our society.

T. Dawg: Voter ID laws also place an extra burden on poor women who are or have been married and have a different last name than what is on their birth certificate. Copies of birth certificates and marriage certificates aren't free.

Not according to the Supreme Court. It may be "extra," but not "substantial" or even a "significant increase."

She comes in colors everywhere: serial_crusher: y'know, it's the elderly who have the most problems with this. Let's just put an age minimum on it. If you were born before, say, 1970, you don't need ID. Problem solved, everybody happy.

That's perfect! All you have do is show proof of your birthdate. With a photo to prove it's your birthdate.

Hey! I have all that info on my driver's license! How convenient!

Who the fark thought we would have to be defending voting rights in the 21st century?

I don't buy this at all, he's old.....old people write checks for EVERYTHING.........check writing requires photo ID in most stores.

While it is fiction, this sums up the situation nicely.

Representative of the unwashed masses: Now I'm just a simple Canadian but here's a compromise that I think will work for everyone involved.

Your reasonable fair won't work for Republicans because their goal is disenfranchising as many people as possible. The difficulties are not an accident.

somedude210: I don't know why but I read the headline in Billy Mays' voice

I figure all billy mays would say now is "BRAIIIINNNNNnnnnnssss"

coeyagi: downstairs: somedude210: downstairs: All politics aside, how doesn't someone have a social security number?  How can you go through even the simplest of a life in America without one?
 
I mean I know people who essentially "live off the grid".  They're cool people, but a little nuts.  But even they have a SSN... even if they don't use it for anything.

Born before 1933 and just never picked one up?

/I think SS went into effect in '33, could be wrong though


I can fathom the few specific circumstances... just not sure how you make it through life in America... especially in the last 15 years... without one.

In other words, I can't spend the extra five minutes and think about how someone could have a different life experience than my own.

Exactly. Let's pretend just as a mental exercise that there is a large community of people in Pennsylvania who don't drive because they eschew modern conveniences. They are born at home, and if they did get an ID it couldn't have a picture on it because of religious tenets. They don't have passports because they don't generally travel internationally. They travel by public transport or horse and buggy and live in rural areas. Let's call them just for the sake of convenience "Amish" people.

What would happen to them if they tried to vote

/Oh right, they generally vote GOP
//Never mind then

Job Creator: coeyagi: downstairs: somedude210: downstairs: All politics aside, how doesn't someone have a social security number?  How can you go through even the simplest of a life in America without one?
 
I mean I know people who essentially "live off the grid".  They're cool people, but a little nuts.  But even they have a SSN... even if they don't use it for anything.

Born before 1933 and just never picked one up?

/I think SS went into effect in '33, could be wrong though


I can fathom the few specific circumstances... just not sure how you make it through life in America... especially in the last 15 years... without one.

In other words, I can't spend the extra five minutes and think about how someone could have a different life experience than my own.

Exactly. Let's pretend just as a mental exercise that there is a large community of people in Pennsylvania who don't drive because they eschew modern conveniences. They are born at home, and if they did get an ID it couldn't have a picture on it because of religious tenets. They don't have passports because they don't generally travel internationally. They travel by public transport or horse and buggy and live in rural areas. Let's call them just for the sake of convenience "Amish" people.

What would happen to them if they tried to vote

/Oh right, they generally vote GOP
//Never mind then

Also they wouldn't have a SSN because they don't pay into (or collect) Social Security on religious grounds.

Representative of the unwashed masses: Now I'm just a simple Canadian but here's a compromise that I think will work for everyone involved. Yes make people have photo ID to vote, but for the next election in 2014. Obviously lots of people are having difficulties getting their ID in time for this election season. take 2 years to do it properly and everyone is happy.

/There was that so hard?
//Give me money.

I believe you are missing the point of the law. Tip the 2012 vote in key swing states to the GOP.

Was that really so hard to understand?

Voter ID is a gateway ID to national ID.

/Ihre papiere, bitte

Biological Ali: Representative of the unwashed masses: Now I'm just a simple Canadian but here's a compromise that I think will work for everyone involved. Yes make people have photo ID to vote, but for the next election in 2014. Obviously lots of people are having difficulties getting their ID in time for this election season. take 2 years to do it properly and everyone is happy.

/There was that so hard?
//Give me money.

The only problem is that, in this context, the bolded step is serving literally no practical purpose (at least if one takes the justification for these laws at face value). Sure, your "compromise" would mitigate some of the ill-effects of the proposition, but that doesn't change the fact that this proposition offers nothing good (along with some unknown amount of bad).

Assuming that you guys have voting lists like we do, then you show your id, they look up your name, check you off and voila you vote. Then no one can come in claim to be you and take your vote. Seems reasonable to me. you have to show photo ID to get on a plane to verify that you are who you say you are so why not for voting?

Close2TheEdge: Representative of the unwashed masses: Now I'm just a simple Canadian but here's a compromise that I think will work for everyone involved. Yes make people have photo ID to vote, but for the next election in 2014. Obviously lots of people are having difficulties getting their ID in time for this election season. take 2 years to do it properly and everyone is happy.

/There was that so hard?
//Give me money.

I believe you are missing the point of the law. Tip the 2012 vote in key swing states to the GOP.

Was that really so hard to understand?

I get it, just seems kind of stupid to me that a 'beacon of democracy' can be so back asswards in regards to voting. Here in Canuckistan I go to my polling location, show my id, they check my name off and take a ballot and a pencil into a booth, fill it out, fold it, put it in a box and walk out. Simple works...

Representative of the unwashed masses: Now I'm just a simple Canadian but here's a compromise that I think will work for everyone involved. Yes make people have photo ID to vote, but for the next election in 2014. Obviously lots of people are having difficulties getting their ID in time for this election season. take 2 years to do it properly and everyone is happy.

/There was that so hard?
//Give me money.

No, that won't work for everyone involved. The argument is not about how long it takes to get a photo ID. Imagine the perfect solution - government volunteers at zero cost whatsoever will somehow go and personally hand photo IDs to all US citizens. All US citizens would then have an ID. This does not satisfy the GOP because the GOP's goal is not a more fair election, the GOP's goal is to suppress the vote of people who tend to vote (D). There would still be an argument.

You know this because the problem that was invented doesn't actually exist. This law is to prevent non citizens from voting. Exactly how many non citizens attempt to vote? You have no idea. But lets start discussing solutions anyways? Man that's stupid.

Of course they were eager to help the elderly wealthy white gentleman.

Hey, it's the new way to find out if somebody's racist. Ask them if they support voter ID laws, and the answer will be the same as if you asked if they are racist.

Representative of the unwashed masses: Assuming that you guys have voting lists like we do,

We do.

Representative of the unwashed masses: then you show your id, they look up your name, check you off and voila you vote. Then no one can come in claim to be you and take your vote.

There are zero people in the history of the United States who have ever claimed to be someone else and voted under a different name. Zero. Now that's a mighty bold claim. Indeed that's a claim I don't honestly believe. However you can provide zero proof to refute it. What you are doing here is protecting us all from the boogeyman. I'm telling you there is no boogeyman. In similar manner, I do not believe there is an alien race that lives on the moon that is currently aiming missiles at us. But I'm sure you want to discuss solutions to that possibility as well because it never hurts to be safe, right?

Dr Dreidel: Representative of the unwashed masses: Assuming that you guys have voting lists like we do, then you show your id, they look up your name, check you off and voila you vote. Then no one can come in claim to be you and take your vote. Seems reasonable to me. you have to show photo ID to get on a plane to verify that you are who you say you are so why not for voting?

Because a single person can't cause untold millions in damage with a vote?

True but about 500 did in Florida in 2000...

/bazinga

Misch: Aexia: Privileged guys on an internet board can't fathom how millions of people get through life in America without a state issued photo id? No shiat.

10.7% of people in Indiana who voted in 2006 did not have a current state issued ID. Source

Among registered voters:
11.5% of whites did not, 18.1% of blacks did not.
Age: (18-34) 20.3%, (35-54) 11.0%, (55-69) 9.4%, (70+) 16.4%
Income ($80K) 11.8%
Education (High school grad) 16.7%, (College grad) 7.9%

those stats look like any plans the GOP have for disenfranchising likely Dem voters would backfire

lennavan:
There are zero people in the history of the United States who have ever claimed to be someone else and voted under a different name. Zero. Now that's a mighty bold claim. Indeed that's a claim I don't honestly believe. However you can provide zero proof to refute it. What you are doing here is protecting us all from the boogeyman. I'm telling you there is no boogeyman. In similar manner, I do not believe there is an alien race that lives on the moon that is currently aiming missiles at us. But I'm sure you want to discuss solutions to that possibility as well because it never hurts to be safe, right?

See this is what baffles me. Whipping out your licence, or other government issued ID to verify your identity shouldn't be a big idea. So long as the basic ID is provided free and enough time is given before the election to ensure that anyone who wants the ID is able to get it. I haven't needed the seatbelt in my car for years but that doesn't mean I'm not going to wear it. I agree the Republicans are being shady in enacting these laws in various states. That's why I think if they even want to pretend they are on the up and up don't do it for this election. Give people so much time to get the ID that they only have themselves to blame if they don't.

skullkrusher: those stats look like any plans the GOP have for disenfranchising likely Dem voters would backfire

How so?

Representative of the unwashed masses: lennavan:
There are zero people in the history of the United States who have ever claimed to be someone else and voted under a different name. Zero. Now that's a mighty bold claim. Indeed that's a claim I don't honestly believe. However you can provide zero proof to refute it. What you are doing here is protecting us all from the boogeyman. I'm telling you there is no boogeyman. In similar manner, I do not believe there is an alien race that lives on the moon that is currently aiming missiles at us. But I'm sure you want to discuss solutions to that possibility as well because it never hurts to be safe, right?

See this is what baffles me. Whipping out your licence, or other government issued ID to verify your identity shouldn't be a big idea. So long as the basic ID is provided free and enough time is given before the election to ensure that anyone who wants the ID is able to get it. I haven't needed the seatbelt in my car for years but that doesn't mean I'm not going to wear it. I agree the Republicans are being shady in enacting these laws in various states. That's why I think if they even want to pretend they are on the up and up don't do it for this election. Give people so much time to get the ID that they only have themselves to blame if they don't.

Why should they need the ID to vote in the first place? It's just like requiring them to bring an apple to the polling place, it serves no meaningful purpose other than to hassle voters. Of course, these ID's need to be renewed, so we will go through the same shiat every 4-6 years.

Representative of the unwashed masses: Whipping out your licence, or other government issued ID to verify your identity shouldn't be a big idea.

Again, you have never established it is necessary. Why do people need an ID? What problem does it solve? Or are we just doing it for shiats and giggles? I get why the GOP is doing it, they want to suppress the (D) vote. What I don't get is why you bought it. Even if I did agree (which I don't and we will get to that in a moment) that this was incredibly easy, you have an incredibly easy solution to a non-existant problem.

There are aliens on the moon that want to kill us all. The solution is to send me $1. Amazingly simple solution. Can I assume my $1 from you is in the mail? Why not? Because you don't believe my problem exists? I don't understand, my solution is so simple, this shouldn't be a big idea. This is your argument.

Representative of the unwashed masses: I haven't needed the seatbelt in my car for years but that doesn't mean I'm not going to wear it.

Again, this is a problem that actually exists. There have been people who have had their lives saved by seatbelts. This is a knowable fact. There are studies to support this. There are zero studies that have shown a form of voter fraud that will be addressed by voter IDs. How the fark can you not see the amazingly relevant and important difference here?

Representative of the unwashed masses: So long as the basic ID is provided free and enough time is given before the election to ensure that anyone who wants the ID is able to get it.

Imagine you are a homeless US citizen. What is required in order to get an ID? In part, proof of address. You're homeless that makes no damn sense. Instead you have to get forms filled out by a homeless shelter. You have to get forms from various government agencies. These forms cost money, you're homeless so you probably don't have money to waste. So you apply for financial hardship to get them free and you've got these forms now. Where do you keep them? In your home? Awkward. So you stuff them in your pocket and head to the DMV to get your ID. Where do you keep your ID? Your wallet with all of your money and credit cards? Oh right, awkward. How many bus trips or walks between your homeless shelter and city hall and the DMV did you take to get this far?

Are you going to do it? Nope. So what have politicians succeeded in doing? Eliminating the vote from homeless citizens. You agree that's bad, right? I mean we can discuss the magnitude of how bad that is for sure but you at least agree that's a bad thing right? Great. Sometimes the ends justify the means. So we have caused a little bit of bad, what did we get in return? Absofarkinglutely nothing.

I would agree with you, I would see your point of view, if there was a problem with voter fraud that voter ID would fix at all. There is no problem at all.

bartink: skullkrusher: those stats look like any plans the GOP have for disenfranchising likely Dem voters would backfire

How so?

11.5% of whites did not, 18.1% of blacks did not.

11.5% of whites is a much higher absolute number of voters than 18.1% of blacks. If the point is to disenfranchise minorities they're doing it but at the cost of more votes than they are saving

Plus 55-70+ sounds like the GOP wheelhouse, especially in Indiana

lennavan: Imagine you are a homeless US citizen.

Using homelessness is a bit anomalous, in this context. Better examples would be the poor, without access to transportation and time to go wait in line, and the elderly, who often can't easily prove their citizenship and have difficulty transporting themselves around.

The rest was actually brilliant, IMO.

Misch: skullkrusher: those stats look like any plans the GOP have for disenfranchising likely Dem voters would backfire

ummm.... no? read the source document (PDF).

Party affiliation: (Valid ID + full name match of voter registration)
Republican: 86.2%
Democrat: 82.6%
Independent: 83.2%

Party Affiliation by Access to ID
Have valid ID (R) 41.6 (D) 32.5 (I) 25.9 = 100.0
Do not have ID (R) 34.8 (D) 38.0 27.2 = 100.0

those stats look like any plans the GOP have for disenfranchising likely Dem voters would succeed

bartink: lennavan: Imagine you are a homeless US citizen.

Using homelessness is a bit anomalous, in this context. Better examples would be the poor, without access to transportation and time to go wait in line, and the elderly, who often can't easily prove their citizenship and have difficulty transporting themselves around.

The rest was actually brilliant, IMO.

Agreed- and the homeless are basically invisible in this country so not many care about their rights. On the other hand, just about anyone can relate to having an elderly relative, maybe a veteran, that would be denied their franchise by this law.

See, that's where the Democratic Party needs to adjust their messaging. Start circulating a meme that "443,000 Disabled Veterans will lose the right to vote" and soon regular America will take notice.

/Working on the FW FW:FW:FW: EMail Now

bartink: Using homelessness is a bit anomalous, in this context.

Doesn't matter. I'm more than happy to admit it is only a very small harm but again, we have caused a very small harm and what have we gained in return? Nothing. For numbers, there are over 650,000 homeless people. About 130,000,000 voted in the last election. So we have disenfranchised 0.5% of the people. Very small number for sure. But if you're going to disenfranchise 0.5% of US citizens from voting, you better farking be fixing a problem greater than 0.5% of the vote.

Job Creator: Why should they need the ID to vote in the first place? It's just like requiring them to bring an apple to the polling place, it serves no meaningful purpose other than to hassle voters. Of course, these ID's need to be renewed, so we will go through the same shiat every 4-6 years.

It is strange. Where I live, you prove your eligibility to vote once, when you register. After the first time you vote in person, you're asked if you want to vote by mail. They mail the ballot to your registered address, you fill it out and sign it under the seal of the envelope. This signature is compared to an image of the first one from the poll book. Between that and the fact that it's a federal crime to steal a ballot from the mail, it's just as good a system as making someone show up and sign the pollbook. Bonus advantage: you don't have to leave home to vote. I can research the local candidates as I'm filling my ballot out.

lennavan: Representative of the unwashed masses: Whipping out your licence, or other government issued ID to verify your identity shouldn't be a big idea.

Again, you have never established it is necessary. Why do people need an ID? What problem does it solve? Or are we just doing it for shiats and giggles? I get why the GOP is doing it, they want to suppress the (D) vote. What I don't get is why you bought it. Even if I did agree (which I don't and we will get to that in a moment) that this was incredibly easy, you have an incredibly easy solution to a non-existant problem.

There are aliens on the moon that want to kill us all. The solution is to send me $1. Amazingly simple solution. Can I assume my $1 from you is in the mail? Why not? Because you don't believe my problem exists? I don't understand, my solution is so simple, this shouldn't be a big idea. This is your argument.

Representative of the unwashed masses: I haven't needed the seatbelt in my car for years but that doesn't mean I'm not going to wear it.

Again, this is a problem that actually exists. There have been people who have had their lives saved by seatbelts. This is a knowable fact. There are studies to support this. There are zero studies that have shown a form of voter fraud that will be addressed by voter IDs. How the fark can you not see the amazingly relevant and important difference here?

Representative of the unwashed masses: So long as the basic ID is provided free and enough time is given before the election to ensure that anyone who wants the ID is able to get it.

Imagine you are a homeless US citizen. What is required in order to get an ID? In part, proof of address. You're homeless that makes no damn sense. Instead you have to get forms filled out by a homeless shelter. You have to get forms from various government agencies. These forms cost money, you're homeless so you probably don't have money to waste. So you apply for financial hardship to get them free and you' ...

Ok fine, get that ink they use in the middle east. you know the stuff that won't wash off for a day. you vote, dip your finger in. Then there isn't a chance you can vote a second time etc. Nobody has ever broken into my house either and I don't expect that to change. I'm still going to lock the door on my way out in the morning, because there is always a first time. the concept of voters needing a piece of ID just doesn't scare me that much.

Representative of the unwashed masses: Ok fine, get that ink they use in the middle east. you know the stuff that won't wash off for a day. you vote, dip your finger in.

Why? Again, weigh the pros and the cons. On the one hand we have to pay like $5 for ink and I have to have an inky finger all day long. That's an amazingly small sacrifice for sure but what do I get in return? Absolutely nothing.

Representative of the unwashed masses: I'm still going to lock the door on my way out in the morning, because there is always a first time.

Again, this fear of yours is based in fact. Robbers exist. Voter fraud does not. Did you send me that $1 I need to ward off alien attacks from the moon? There is always a first time. You're really worried about that voter fraud, why aren't you worried about alien attacks from the moon? $1 is really easy and simple to send me.

Skirl Hutsenreiter: Job Creator: Why should they need the ID to vote in the first place? It's just like requiring them to bring an apple to the polling place, it serves no meaningful purpose other than to hassle voters. Of course, these ID's need to be renewed, so we will go through the same shiat every 4-6 years.

It is strange. Where I live, you prove your eligibility to vote once, when you register. After the first time you vote in person, you're asked if you want to vote by mail. They mail the ballot to your registered address, you fill it out and sign it under the seal of the envelope. This signature is compared to an image of the first one from the poll book. Between that and the fact that it's a federal crime to steal a ballot from the mail, it's just as good a system as making someone show up and sign the pollbook. Bonus advantage: you don't have to leave home to vote. I can research the local candidates as I'm filling my ballot out.

You do understand, don't you, that other states do things differently? That in many states there is no general voting by mail? That in many instances voters are in fact required to show ID each time they appear to vote?

Also, your faith in the laws prohibiting theft of mail is curious. You seem to think that the existence of the law is sufficient to address the danger, but your faith does not extend to the laws prohibiting vote fraud. I wonder why that is.

serial_crusher: y'know, it's the elderly who have the most problems with this. Let's just put an age minimum on it. If you were born before, say, 1970, you don't need ID. Problem solved, everybody happy.

Given that that would only have me be 6 years short of not needing an ID, I'd say that 1940 would be a closer figure. That would require you to be 72 years old - far, far more likely to
A: Not be driving
B: Look older than heck
C: Be born long ago enough for there to be issues with ID, birth certificates, and such.

One addition I'd make: A funded office of "citizenship resolution" who's purpose is to fix issues of paperwork. They're the ones who can take things like citizen's testimony, fix spelling errors on birth certificates*, provide documentation after a fire, etc...

*An issue I remember for some 80 year old janitor; her birth certificate is misspelled and it'd take a judge to fix. Before that she never held a driver's license - stay at home mom, public transportation, all that. Don't know why that would be a huge issue, especially given that she works in the courthouse, and has never missed an election.