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(Politico)   White House attempts to throw an entire embassy under the bus   (politico.com ) divider line 279
    More: Followup, White House, obama, religious tolerance, Obama administration, United States government  
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4983 clicks; posted to Politics » on 12 Sep 2012 at 9:29 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-12 11:36:36 AM  

tony41454: Reposted from Facebook, from someone in Egypt:

Mohamed S------- · Microbiology Specialist at Central Laboratory - Ministry of health - Sharkia
From Egypt, I hope that Romney wins. You Americans are upset about the walls of your embassy! - What about us here in Egypt, where your president Obama pushed with his administration so that those kind of maniacs come to rule us! - If you are angry, we are angry, afraid, hopeless, frightened, weak --etc. , I feel sorry for the American diplomat killed in Libya - but I hope that you feel sorry back for us- millions of sad, oppressed, depressed, non-Islamist, whom happen to be paying the price of your administration's bad deals and also happen to live in Egypt.

Mohamed S------ · Microbiology Specialist at Central Laboratory - Ministry of health - Sharkia
If it was THAT BAD before 1-25-2011 - and it wasn't-, Now it is HELL. Why should we pay for mistakes of terror? Why we should pay for the mistakes of USA's bad or even good choices. We went for a revolution for freedom, real democracy, modernized way of life. What was your administration and intelligence opinions... NO, NO, they don't deserve that... GIVE them Terrorists to rule them. One question... How come that Obama supports Islamic brotherhood and after few days from them winning presidential elections "UNFAIRLY", the Congress put their organization at terrorism supporters list?



Are you re-posting this because it is demonstrably crazy?

Obama gave the Egyptians terrorists to rule them?
 
2012-09-12 11:37:14 AM  
I don't think you guys are fired up enough yet. So here's a video of the embassy on fire, with a guy raving and ranting about how we shouldn't insult Mohammed 

/I notice that The Guardian is careful to NOT say which film was so insulting. I'm sure it was just shoddy reporting.
 
2012-09-12 11:38:24 AM  

Epoch_Zero: Bender The Offender: JusticeandIndependence: FC Exile: That's the same Tea Party moron who got a bunch of our soldiers killed in Afghanistan for burning a Qur'an. He also hung an effigy of President Obama outside of his church and was investigated by the Secret Service.

I'm gonna be heating my house w/ Qur'ans this winter. Maybe then I'll be responsible for an armed Islamic extremist invasion of the US and whichever USELESS idiot wins this Nov WILL FINALLY GET OFF THEIR ASS AND FARKING FINISH A WAR FOR ONCE!

How exactly to you finish a war today?

Kill every single mother farker with any ties to terrorism. Kill everyone of their relatives (especially the children), their friends, and their employers. This violent psychopathic religious mindset is a part of their cultural identity. They are taught to hate infidels from the time they're in diapers. There is absolutely no way you are going to reason with or bribe a society into changing theory fundamental cultural identity. I don't advocate this approach, but it's the only one guaranteed to work. I think we should cut our ties completely with the entire middle east (including Israel) and let them sort themselves out. Stop giving them a point to rally against (the west) and let them destroy themselves with the tribal warfare that has been ingrained throughout the entire region for thousands of years.

Your methodology is Nuke it From Orbit: The Only Way to Be Sure?


Genocide sounds so much better when we do it.
 
2012-09-12 11:39:09 AM  
I'm a liberal and an Obama voter, but any apology is just stupid. So the guy said something nasty about Muslims. They can farking deal, and if they want to start killing diplomats, they should pay whatever the price is for killing a diplomat. I would rather not start bombing these idiots, but being America I assume there's all kinds of ways we could diplomatically and financially crush them if we choose to do so.
 
2012-09-12 11:39:38 AM  

Bender The Offender: Stop giving them a point to rally against (the west) and let them destroy themselves with the tribal warfare that has been ingrained throughout the entire region for thousands of years.


You do realize that the tribal/familial tendency is long standing, with the more recent concept of 'nation' and nationalism a relatively new phenomenon, where even in the US, the idea of being 'American' is barely a 100 years old, and the urge to shoot people from the next town over, let alone another state of the union, was common.

Right?
 
2012-09-12 11:43:05 AM  

Geotpf: Declare the entire Middle East to be a "Sacrifice Zone" (note: including Israel-they are part of the problem, not part of the solution, mainly due their "have their cake and eat it too" attitute towards the West Bank where they take over the area but never officially annex it). Withdrawal all US personel from the area, stop all US funds from all governments, issue a travel advisory, and then not care what happens inside the Sacrifice Zone. Mark maps with "Here there be dragons" and wash our hands of the area.


-----------------------

This sounds exactly right to me.
 
2012-09-12 11:46:20 AM  

balloot: I'm a liberal and an Obama voter, but any apology is just stupid. So the guy said something nasty about Muslims. They can farking deal, and if they want to start killing diplomats, they should pay whatever the price is for killing a diplomat. I would rather not start bombing these idiots, but being America I assume there's all kinds of ways we could diplomatically and financially crush them if we choose to do so.


There was no apology. Who are "they"? You realize that both the Libyan govt, and Obama have agree to hunt down and bring the people who did this to justice? There is no state actor to bomb, crush financially, and deal with diplomatically. Take a deep breath and chill. Obama has got this.
 
2012-09-12 11:46:25 AM  

Karma Curmudgeon: The Romney campaign is self-destructing and it's going to have to keep doubling down on this type of douchiness hoping to hit on a longshot to turn his fortunes around. My prediction: lulz. Many, many lulz.


Yup. Their only hope is to manically overreact to every possible "scandal" and hope something sticks. This one is a fail. Nobody gives a shiat about the 37th time we've seen brown people rioting in the last year.
 
2012-09-12 11:46:26 AM  

TrollingForColumbine: I want the name of this Israeli Business man who supposedly produced the film. I want to know if he is friend with Bibi. If he ever serverd in the mosad. If he had any business romney or bain. I want this guys entire laid out before me. Cause I go a suspician this was all planed by the israelis to make Obama look bad.

/neadamyer dead.


sam Bacile
 
2012-09-12 11:48:00 AM  
It wasn't as much as an apology as an "Oh shait we better say something before they kill us"
 
2012-09-12 11:48:03 AM  

balloot: I'm a liberal and an Obama voter, but any apology is just stupid. So the guy said something nasty about Muslims. They can farking deal, and if they want to start killing diplomats, they should pay whatever the price is for killing a diplomat. I would rather not start bombing these idiots, but being America I assume there's all kinds of ways we could diplomatically and financially crush them if we choose to do so.


There wasn't an apology. The embassy in cairo viewed a hostile crowd gathering outside the compound and released a statement about universal religious tolerance in an attempt to lower tensions. The statement was released BEFORE they went over the walls, and BEFORE the attack in Libya. Tensions still boiled over, but considering no one got hurt there it was a success.

Debunking this is going to get old fast.
 
2012-09-12 11:48:47 AM  

Geotpf: It's perfectly fine to state that these film makers are not helping


So was Salman Rushdie not helping, too?

I think the filmmakers are helping, though that's not their intent. It becomes more revelatory to even the most blinkered Western useful idiots every time there's Islamoriots because of a cartoon or a movie or a book or just a bullshiat rumor.
 
2012-09-12 11:49:49 AM  

tony41454: Holocaust Agnostic


Mohamed S------- · Microbiology Specialist at Central Laboratory - Ministry of health - Sharkia
From Egypt, I hope that Romney wins. You Americans are upset about the walls of your embassy! - What about us here in Egypt, where your president Obama pushed with his administration so that those kind of maniacs come to rule us! - If you are angry, we are angry, afraid, hopeless, frightened, weak --etc. , I feel sorry for the American diplomat killed in Libya - but I hope that you feel sorry back for us- millions of sad, oppressed, depressed, non-Islamist, whom happen to be paying the price of your administration's bad deals and also happen to live in Egypt.

Mohamed S------ · Microbiology Specialist at Central Laboratory - Ministry of health - Sharkia
If it was THAT BAD before 1-25-2011 - and it wasn't-, Now it is HELL. Why should we pay for mistakes of terror? Why we should pay for the mistakes of USA's bad or even good choices. We went for a revolution for freedom, real democracy, modernized way of life. What was your administration and intelligence opinions... NO, NO, they don't deserve that... GIVE them Terrorists to rule them. One question... How come that Obama supports Islamic brotherhood and after few days from them winning presidential elections "UNFAIRLY", the Congress put their organization at terrorism supporters list?

No, that's a lie. 100% of muzzies are mad about a YouTube video. If it went for that they would be chugging coca-cola, munching halal big Macs and watching reruns of Scrubs right now.

Tell that to someone who LIVES over there. You can read this guy's comments in the Comments section of the referenced article, you twit.


I can't sarcasm any harder than "halal big Mac" and "muzzies", dude.
 
2012-09-12 11:49:59 AM  

Wicked Chinchilla: balloot: I'm a liberal and an Obama voter, but any apology is just stupid. So the guy said something nasty about Muslims. They can farking deal, and if they want to start killing diplomats, they should pay whatever the price is for killing a diplomat. I would rather not start bombing these idiots, but being America I assume there's all kinds of ways we could diplomatically and financially crush them if we choose to do so.

There wasn't an apology. The embassy in cairo viewed a hostile crowd gathering outside the compound and released a statement about universal religious tolerance in an attempt to lower tensions. The statement was released BEFORE they went over the walls, and BEFORE the attack in Libya. Tensions still boiled over, but considering no one got hurt there it was a success.

Debunking this is going to get old fast.


-------------

Whatever you want to call it - the tweet was dead wrong, and a lot of people in this thread have defended it. You don't get to form a mob and riot every time someone offends you. That's all I'm saying.
 
2012-09-12 11:51:36 AM  

balloot: but any apology is just stupid.


What apology?
 
2012-09-12 11:54:02 AM  
But that runs counter to the narrative that this was entirely a case of anti-American asshats who were pulling off a coordinated terror attack on the anniversary of 9/11. Obviously the guy is dragging the dead body through the streets because the country is populated by savage dogs who need to be put down.

/Anyone got the list of Muslim terror plots foiled in part by fellow Muslims reporting the plans?
//I hope the Libyan government finds the people behind the attack and sees that they get fried for it.
 
2012-09-12 11:54:32 AM  

NewportBarGuy: Coelacanth: Fundamentalist Christian Pastor Terry Jones produced

Was it really that dickhead? If so, I'm perfectly fine with chopping off his head to sate those offended.

 
2012-09-12 11:55:07 AM  

balloot: Wicked Chinchilla: balloot: I'm a liberal and an Obama voter, but any apology is just stupid. So the guy said something nasty about Muslims. They can farking deal, and if they want to start killing diplomats, they should pay whatever the price is for killing a diplomat. I would rather not start bombing these idiots, but being America I assume there's all kinds of ways we could diplomatically and financially crush them if we choose to do so.

There wasn't an apology. The embassy in cairo viewed a hostile crowd gathering outside the compound and released a statement about universal religious tolerance in an attempt to lower tensions. The statement was released BEFORE they went over the walls, and BEFORE the attack in Libya. Tensions still boiled over, but considering no one got hurt there it was a success.

Debunking this is going to get old fast.

-------------

Whatever you want to call it - the tweet was dead wrong, and a lot of people in this thread have defended it. You don't get to form a mob and riot every time someone offends you. That's all I'm saying.


Of course not. The people in the thread talkign about the statement are not arguing that point either.
No one is even "defending" the statement. There is nothing to defend. It wasn't an apology. It wasn't acknowledging justification for the protesters gathering. What it said was:

"Hey guys, we didn't have anything to do with that statement, we don't agree with it either, how about you leave us alone and go home? ok? Please?"
 
2012-09-12 11:55:11 AM  

Garet Garrett: sprawl15: CPennypacker: If Americans are getting killed for freedom of speech, you don't condemn the speech, you defend the Americans.

On what planet do you live where these are mutually exclusive?

Our government's role is not to support or condemn the speech of our nation's citizens. In case you didn't know.


Our government can, does and should condemn hate speech of anyone, anywhere. As long as they do not actively try to silence said speech (provided it isn't slanderous as well) the administration, as our elected executive, had better well condemn hate speech if that's what his electorate demands.

You get to say what you want (with very few exceptions), but there will be consequences. Public outcry - including that of elected officials is part of those consequences.

If you don't like it, vote for people who espouse ideas you like.
 
2012-09-12 11:59:50 AM  

balloot: Whatever you want to call it - the tweet was dead wrong, and a lot of people in this thread have defended it. You don't get to form a mob and riot every time someone offends you. That's all I'm saying.


How is the tweet "dead wrong"?

And WTF does " You don't get to form a mob and riot every time someone offends you" supposed to address? Who said anything remotely close to saying that?
 
2012-09-12 12:01:12 PM  

Gulper Eel: Geotpf: It's perfectly fine to state that these film makers are not helping

So was Salman Rushdie not helping, too?

I think the filmmakers are helping, though that's not their intent. It becomes more revelatory to even the most blinkered Western useful idiots every time there's Islamoriots because of a cartoon or a movie or a book or just a bullshiat rumor.


Well, assuming we aren't going the "Sacrifice Zone" route that I suggested, we need to do our best to stop rioters from burning down our embassies in the Middle East and killing everybody inside. Condeming the film in mild terms helps with that.
 
2012-09-12 12:02:39 PM  
Good. The government should be sticking up for freedom of speech, not the hurt "religious feelings" of petulant children.
 
2012-09-12 12:05:40 PM  

yohohogreengiant: Our government can, does and should condemn hate speech of anyone, anywhere. As long as they do not actively try to silence said speech (provided it isn't slanderous as well) the administration, as our elected executive, had better well condemn hate speech if that's what his electorate demands.


I think the courts traditionally try to strike any law that has a "chilling effect" on speech. If I make a law that says that anyone who insults Muslims may not participate in any Federal programs, that has a (perhaps unintended) consequence of making people uneasy about saying ANYTHING about Muslims, lest it be interpreted as "insulting" and depriving you of benefits you'd otherwise have.

Yes, that's a hypothetical. No, it's not universal (the courts don't care about chilling speech when it concerns National Secrets). No, I don't think it applies to Executive actions. Executive Orders, yes; actions, no.

I also don't know how it might apply here, I just feel like pointing out that the First doesn't only apply to the expression itself - it protects the surrounding area as well (think of it as protecting the FREEDOM OF expression in addition to protecting the freedom of EXPRESSION).
 
2012-09-12 12:05:46 PM  

Wicked Chinchilla: balloot: I'm a liberal and an Obama voter, but any apology is just stupid. So the guy said something nasty about Muslims. They can farking deal, and if they want to start killing diplomats, they should pay whatever the price is for killing a diplomat. I would rather not start bombing these idiots, but being America I assume there's all kinds of ways we could diplomatically and financially crush them if we choose to do so.

There wasn't an apology. The embassy in cairo viewed a hostile crowd gathering outside the compound and released a statement about universal religious tolerance in an attempt to lower tensions. The statement was released BEFORE they went over the walls, and BEFORE the attack in Libya. Tensions still boiled over, but considering no one got hurt there it was a success.

Debunking this is going to get old fast.


It will because Romney claims that Obama "reinterated" the initial Egyptian consulate Twitter post after the attacks happened in Egypt and Libya, and therefore his criticism stands because Obama did side with the protestors after it happened.

Romney hasn't clarified how Obama reinterated the statement: was there a retweet or something? Anyway, it obviously means Obama did side with the terrorists on killing the ambassador, because Romney would never make up a vague lie that is unfalsifiable ("prove Obama DIDN'T say he agreed with the tweet in the aftermath of the attacks!") in order to not have to admit to another lie.
 
2012-09-12 12:07:06 PM  

balloot: Whatever you want to call it - the tweet was dead wrong, and a lot of people in this thread have defended it. You don't get to form a mob and riot every time someone offends you. That's all I'm saying.


Which part was wrong? The part where we don't support religious intolerance? I only ask because that is all the tweet said and your opposition to it makes you sound like you support intolerance.
 
2012-09-12 12:09:08 PM  

Grungehamster: But that runs counter to the narrative that this was entirely a case of anti-American asshats who were pulling off a coordinated terror attack on the anniversary of 9/11. Obviously the guy is dragging the dead body through the streets because the country is populated by savage dogs who need to be put down.

/Anyone got the list of Muslim terror plots foiled in part by fellow Muslims reporting the plans?
//I hope the Libyan government finds the people behind the attack and sees that they get fried for it.


This was supposed to be a response to the clarification that the "dragging through the street" photo isn't of an anti-American protestor but rather someone trying to get our ambassador to safety.
 
2012-09-12 12:10:00 PM  

sprawl15: "We condemn the continuing efforts by misguided individuals to hurt the religious feelings of Muslims" is not an apology, farkwits.

I mean, holy shiat, if that's not the view of the government, what is?


He has condemned both the people that attacked the embassy and the idiots that decided to stick their penises in the hornet's nest. As he should. He's not apologizing. He's basically saying "Hey, fark you for making a stupid provoking video. And fark you other guys for killing people unrelated to that video."
 
2012-09-12 12:13:15 PM  

Grungehamster: Wicked Chinchilla: balloot: I'm a liberal and an Obama voter, but any apology is just stupid. So the guy said something nasty about Muslims. They can farking deal, and if they want to start killing diplomats, they should pay whatever the price is for killing a diplomat. I would rather not start bombing these idiots, but being America I assume there's all kinds of ways we could diplomatically and financially crush them if we choose to do so.

There wasn't an apology. The embassy in cairo viewed a hostile crowd gathering outside the compound and released a statement about universal religious tolerance in an attempt to lower tensions. The statement was released BEFORE they went over the walls, and BEFORE the attack in Libya. Tensions still boiled over, but considering no one got hurt there it was a success.

Debunking this is going to get old fast.

It will because Romney claims that Obama "reinterated" the initial Egyptian consulate Twitter post after the attacks happened in Egypt and Libya, and therefore his criticism stands because Obama did side with the protestors after it happened.

Romney hasn't clarified how Obama reinterated the statement: was there a retweet or something? Anyway, it obviously means Obama did side with the terrorists on killing the ambassador, because Romney would never make up a vague lie that is unfalsifiable ("prove Obama DIDN'T say he agreed with the tweet in the aftermath of the attacks!") in order to not have to admit to another lie.


The embassay reissued the statement is basically what happened is what I read somewhere. Unless Obama used his magic carpet (every muslim sympathizer gets one, thats how al qaeda keeps itself supplied!) to send himself to the embassy during that time it is still a bald lie. Just like we build that. Or the welfare thing.

God damn the smell of desperation is thick from the Romney campaign. I hope this post-fact business DIES with this election cycle.
 
2012-09-12 12:15:29 PM  
Ugh, this situation has me facepalming for multiple reasons.

FTFA: "Some have sought to justify this vicious behavior as a response to inflammatory material posted on the Internet. The United States deplores any intentional effort to denigrate the religious beliefs of others. Our commitment to religious tolerance goes back to the very beginning of our nation. But let me be clear: There is never any justification for violent acts of this kind," Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said in a Tuesday statement.

The sentence "The United States deplores any intentional effort to denigrate the religious beliefs of others," is poorly worded, especially when followed by the phrase "Our commitment to religious tolerance goes back to the very beginning of our nation." Many of the founding fathers were exceptionally critical of the religions of others. Our "commitment to tolerance" should refer to the way that we are not allowed to interfere with the religious beliefs or practices of others through government action, violence, or threats of violence, and not to an official policy of censuring critics of religious beliefs.

Terry Jones is an idiot, for a number of reasons, and I really hate the fact that the official response to these embassy incidents is forcing me to defend him. When you have a segment of the Islamic world that would view a plain, dispassionate statement that "Muhammad was not a prophet of God" as a slanderous offense worthy of death, the US government is going to have to find a better way to explain American freedom of speech and secular government to Islamic countries. It's a delicate operation, but through careful statecraft we're going to need to get the idea across that while we are not enemies of Islam, Americans are free to criticize it. Period.

I can say with certainty that in the aftermath of these attacks on embassies, there are not going to fewer Youtube videos critical of Islam. We need to get our story straight, because people looking for offense on the internet are going to find it...
 
2012-09-12 12:19:28 PM  

FC Exile: Declare the entire Middle East to be a "Sacrifice Zone" (note: including Israel-they are part of the problem, not part of the solution, mainly due their "have their cake and eat it too" attitute towards the West Bank where they take over the area but never officially annex it). Withdrawal all US personel from the area, stop all US funds from all governments, issue a travel advisory, and then not care what happens inside the Sacrifice Zone. Mark maps with "Here there be dragons" and wash our hands of the area.

Me too.


Wonder how we'll deal with that 'we need oil' thing.
 
2012-09-12 12:20:38 PM  

Martian_Astronomer: The sentence "The United States deplores any intentional effort to denigrate the religious beliefs of others," is poorly worded, especially when followed by the phrase "Our commitment to religious tolerance goes back to the very beginning of our nation."


Were the Mayans still around, cutting out the still-beating hearts of virgins to ensure a bountiful harvest, we'd most likely have a problem with that. Maybe it should've been worded "The United States deplores any intentional effort to denigrate the peaceful religious beliefs of others." What if my religion involved systematic slavery and murder of toddlers? Should that barbarism not be denigrated for the sake of religious tolerance?
 
2012-09-12 12:22:01 PM  
What will Rancid Prebus tweet next? Not from the RNC but from that other place. After all what do you expect from the people who brought you Iran Contra. Guess they all be released from what ever embassy just after the election. It's amazing how religious enemies can work together when it comes to electing a Republican.
 
2012-09-12 12:26:32 PM  

There is one ideal social media solution to this. Tweet them a short URL to this:

i.imgur.com
Welcome to Fark Youtube

 
2012-09-12 12:30:18 PM  

BitwiseShift: What will Rancid Prebus tweet next? Not from the RNC but from that other place. After all what do you expect from the people who brought you Iran Contra. Guess they all be released from what ever embassy just after the election. It's amazing how religious enemies can work together when it comes to electing a Republican.


Prebus is such a bag of shiat. He has been running around Twitter screaming "OBAMA APOLOGIZED FOR PROTESTERS" when Obama infact condemned their actions. He's going to run the strawman like a kite, knowing it's a lie, to get votes.
 
2012-09-12 12:31:56 PM  

xtragrind: Carn: This is starting to make me really angry. If Romney persists, this might be the thing that buries him before we even get to the debates.

Our countrymen died. If the only reason your team cares about it is to use the situation to attain power, then your team needs to burn in the raging fires of hell.

Obama supported the very rebels/civilians that just stormed our embassy and killed out ambassador. However, folks in this thread are mad because Romney is saying this is an absolute disaster? I walked down the hall today and everyone I talk to about it thinks this thing has turned into a nightmare over there. How is what Romney is saying different than what 99% of Americans, outside of the loons in this thread, are saying today?


Oh what the fark ever. You are delusional. Congrats, you've earned a new pink background with that tag.
 
2012-09-12 12:32:58 PM  

WizardofToast: BitwiseShift: What will Rancid Prebus tweet next? Not from the RNC but from that other place. After all what do you expect from the people who brought you Iran Contra. Guess they all be released from what ever embassy just after the election. It's amazing how religious enemies can work together when it comes to electing a Republican.

Prebus is such a bag of shiat. He has been running around Twitter screaming "OBAMA APOLOGIZED FOR PROTESTERS" when Obama infact condemned their actions. He's going to run the strawman like a kite, knowing it's a lie, to get votes.


Well, considering they are being panned almost universally in the media he should keep doing it. He is impossible to listen too. Who knew Steele would be such a better RNC chairmen by comparison....
 
2012-09-12 12:34:05 PM  

Vlad_the_Inaner: FC Exile: Declare the entire Middle East to be a "Sacrifice Zone" (note: including Israel-they are part of the problem, not part of the solution, mainly due their "have their cake and eat it too" attitute towards the West Bank where they take over the area but never officially annex it). Withdrawal all US personel from the area, stop all US funds from all governments, issue a travel advisory, and then not care what happens inside the Sacrifice Zone. Mark maps with "Here there be dragons" and wash our hands of the area.

Me too.

Wonder how we'll deal with that 'we need oil' thing.


We'll get it from Canada and Mexico like we currently do. Only about 20% of our oil imports come from the Persian Gulf, mostly Saudi Arabia and Iraq. Besides, just because we cut political ties that wouldn't stop commercial ties, under my proposal. Middle Eastern oil would still be sold to the US.

Here's a chart as to where our imported oil comes from: http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_ep00_im0_mbbl_m.htm
 
2012-09-12 12:35:55 PM  
My link above, now clickable: Link
 
2012-09-12 12:38:30 PM  

Wicked Chinchilla: WizardofToast: BitwiseShift: What will Rancid Prebus tweet next? Not from the RNC but from that other place. After all what do you expect from the people who brought you Iran Contra. Guess they all be released from what ever embassy just after the election. It's amazing how religious enemies can work together when it comes to electing a Republican.

Prebus is such a bag of shiat. He has been running around Twitter screaming "OBAMA APOLOGIZED FOR PROTESTERS" when Obama infact condemned their actions. He's going to run the strawman like a kite, knowing it's a lie, to get votes.

Well, considering they are being panned almost universally in the media he should keep doing it. He is impossible to listen too. Who knew Steele would be such a better RNC chairmen by comparison....


Steele was laughable in the sense of 'old relative trying to use hip lingo to seem cool to the kids' (Remember the New GOP website incident?). Preibus is the 'drunk relative that makes everyone hang their heads and groan during the dinner'. I just want Steele back. He was silly, but he wasn't farking disgusting.
 
2012-09-12 12:41:12 PM  

Dr Dreidel: yohohogreengiant: Our government can, does and should condemn hate speech of anyone, anywhere. As long as they do not actively try to silence said speech (provided it isn't slanderous as well) the administration, as our elected executive, had better well condemn hate speech if that's what his electorate demands.

I think the courts traditionally try to strike any law that has a "chilling effect" on speech. If I make a law that says that anyone who insults Muslims may not participate in any Federal programs, that has a (perhaps unintended) consequence of making people uneasy about saying ANYTHING about Muslims, lest it be interpreted as "insulting" and depriving you of benefits you'd otherwise have.

Yes, that's a hypothetical. No, it's not universal (the courts don't care about chilling speech when it concerns National Secrets). No, I don't think it applies to Executive actions. Executive Orders, yes; actions, no.

I also don't know how it might apply here, I just feel like pointing out that the First doesn't only apply to the expression itself - it protects the surrounding area as well (think of it as protecting the FREEDOM OF expression in addition to protecting the freedom of EXPRESSION).


This also all sounds correct to what I've learned about the constitution. But we were talking about condemning hate speech - particularly that jackass' film in question. Sec. Clinton came out publicly against it in the official White House statement. There aren't any laws or policy. If someone does something repugnant, just because they are protected by the 1st amendment doesn't mean our administration should be silent about it .

The person I quoted seemed to feel that it wasn't the role of the executive to speak out against what US citizens do, even if (as in this case) it is repugnant. I disagree with that and I don't know of any example where the executive is expected to stay silent. Condemnation for that kind of stupid is fairly common practice in democracies that have protected speech, and we do it all the time.

When they start passing hate speech laws, then I will become very concerned and object with my vote and speech. But that isn't what is happening here at all.
 
2012-09-12 12:45:37 PM  

Coelacanth: Salma Elwardany @S_Elwardany
US pastor Terry Jones, Morris Sadek and others placed on an airport watch list by Egyptian authorities

Free (R) women @kristenp17
Terry Jones purposely and knowingly engaged in actions that he reasonably knew would incite violence. His actions have caused 100+ deaths

BrnzBarbie @BrnzBarbie
They should declare Terry Jones a threat to national security and take him out just like they did Bin Laden...he's just as dangerous!

Robert Rufa @RobertRufa
NYT: Video that inspired the violence in Libya was produced by a right-wing Israeli-American businessman, endorsed by pastor Terry Jones.



Yipee. Tweets from morans. And...?
 
2012-09-12 12:46:05 PM  

Wicked Chinchilla: WizardofToast: BitwiseShift: What will Rancid Prebus tweet next? Not from the RNC but from that other place. After all what do you expect from the people who brought you Iran Contra. Guess they all be released from what ever embassy just after the election. It's amazing how religious enemies can work together when it comes to electing a Republican.

Prebus is such a bag of shiat. He has been running around Twitter screaming "OBAMA APOLOGIZED FOR PROTESTERS" when Obama infact condemned their actions. He's going to run the strawman like a kite, knowing it's a lie, to get votes.

Well, considering they are being panned almost universally in the media he should keep doing it. He is impossible to listen too. Who knew Steele would be such a better RNC chairmen by comparison....


He helped Republicans dominate in Wisconsin in 2010, so maybe he might know what he's doing. If he can get people to agree to a united front denouncing Obama on this issue then reporting the criticism will overshadow reporting the lie, and you can safely say that claims it is a lie are examples of media bias.

So far though, the rest of the party ain't biting. Boehner, Cantor, McCain, Graham, and McConnell all denounced the attacks without saying anything critical of Obama and suggesting we must stand united.
 
2012-09-12 12:57:57 PM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: Were the Mayans still around, cutting out the still-beating hearts of virgins to ensure a bountiful harvest, we'd most likely have a problem with that. Maybe it should've been worded "The United States deplores any intentional effort to denigrate the peaceful religious beliefs of others." What if my religion involved systematic slavery and murder of toddlers? Should that barbarism not be denigrated for the sake of religious tolerance?


Hence my emphasis on "secular government." The government is supposed to take no stance on religion, but can still condemn or promote actions. The government can say "We oppose the killing of virgins" or "we support equality for women" or "we believe that teaching real science is beneficial to the future of our nation," with the unspoken implication of "and if your religion disagrees, too bad."

This will, of course, lead the religious to claim that the government is not "neutral," but actively opposing their religion. If you look up a lot of the background on the Dominionists in this country, one of their key concepts is the idea that there is no such thing as "neutral" or "secular" government, because all of the values that (and even some of the facts) that a governmental philosophy is based on are informed by "religiously"-derived presuppositions. In this view, there can be no co-existence, only victory or defeat.

In a similar vein, the kinds of people who kill ambassadors are going to view "failure to punish critics of Islam" as a sign that our government is "against Islam." Even in a best-case scenario, it's going to take a lot of careful statecraft, shrewd PR, and quite a few deaths from old age to improve that situation.
 
2012-09-12 01:00:25 PM  

FC Exile: trotsky


Smartest
Funniest

2012-09-12 10:07:10 AM

FC Exile: That's the same Tea Party moron who got a bunch of our soldiers killed in Afghanistan for burning a Qur'an. He also hung an effigy of President Obama outside of his church and was investigated by the Secret Service.

I'm gonna be heating my house w/ Qur'ans this winter. Maybe then I'll be responsible for an armed Islamic extremist invasion of the US and whichever USELESS idiot wins this Nov WILL FINALLY GET OFF THEIR ASS AND FARKING FINISH A WAR FOR ONCE!

You do realize that that turd burning the farking Koran WAS the stated reason why the Islamists aimed at American troops, right? It wasn't hyperbole. The fark had to be SO public with it that it really did get American troops killed.

Fark Mitt Romney for capitalizing on our people getting killed.
Fark Terry Jones for letting his hate get our people killed while he sits in a nice house in Florida.
Fark the Islamists who take provocation at every opportunity to kill our people.

I honestly do know what's worse, the fire burning the place down, the asshole who throws gas on it to light it even hotter or the farker who plans to use it at the next meeting to get elected.

The only one getting anyone killed is the person doing the killing.


So you obviously had no problem with Fast & Furious then.
 
2012-09-12 01:10:01 PM  

Jackson Herring: I want to throw throwing under the bus under the bus


Someone is just gonna throw THAT under the bus. Then there won't any more room under the bus for the stuff that was under the bus first. Then it won't be under the bus anymore, making room for other people to throw more stuff under the bus. Ergo, it is unpossible to throw "throwing under the bus" under the bus.

In all seriousness, and I'm sure it's been said, but don't Embassies have to go by scripts? That is, aren't there 'prearranged' comments that they are allowed/expected to give in certain situations, and haven't these comments already been approved by the current Administration? I recall thinking that that is how things are supposed to work. True, maybe the Embassy went "off script" here.

It will be interesting to hear the Embassy's response to the attempt to throw them under the bus like this --- especially if there is some SOP or whatever that directed to them to say what they said.
 
2012-09-12 01:11:53 PM  

xtragrind: Obama supported the very rebels/civilians that just stormed our embassy and killed out ambassador.


What did he say or do to support them?
 
2012-09-12 01:12:36 PM  

CPennypacker: DarnoKonrad: CPennypacker: DarnoKonrad: bdub77: According to the Wall Street Journal, the film depicts the Muslim prophet Muhammed as a "womanizer, pedophile and fraud" - a depiction bound to offend many Muslims.

Hey guys, Mohammed WAS in fact a womanizer, pedophile, and fraud. He was also, btw, totally f*cking crazy, much like many of you assholes that continue to kill people under his belief system.

I'm sorry if that whitewashed version of history doesn't suit your belief that Mohammed was a stand up guy. But it's nice to know you've learned nothing in the 1400 years since.

And you gay-bashing Jesus followers....I'm staring hard at you too. It is evil to hate others.


So was Joseph Smith, that doesn't mean we should be provoking Mormons by attacking the Mormon faith.

Faith needs to be attacked more. Belief in something in spite of a lack of evidence should be considered a negative quality, not a positive one.

I'd rather advocate rationality that attack the irrational. Making people feel under siege is no way to win hearts and minds.

You're not going to win those minds.


Perhaps, but getting them angry serves little purpose.
 
2012-09-12 01:13:18 PM  

Martian_Astronomer: In a similar vein, the kinds of people who kill ambassadors are going to view "failure to punish critics of Islam" as a sign that our government is "against Islam." Even in a best-case scenario, it's going to take a lot of careful statecraft, shrewd PR, and quite a few deaths from old age to improve that situation.


We should probably just bombard the region with translated episodes of My Little Pony, since we've lost the older generation, but if we can get the younger generation thinking with at least the emotional intelligence of a five-year-old girl, we should have a decent head start on the future.
 
2012-09-12 01:14:10 PM  

DarnoKonrad: bdub77: According to the Wall Street Journal, the film depicts the Muslim prophet Muhammed as a "womanizer, pedophile and fraud" - a depiction bound to offend many Muslims.

Hey guys, Mohammed WAS in fact a womanizer, pedophile, and fraud. He was also, btw, totally f*cking crazy, much like many of you assholes that continue to kill people under his belief system.

I'm sorry if that whitewashed version of history doesn't suit your belief that Mohammed was a stand up guy. But it's nice to know you've learned nothing in the 1400 years since.

And you gay-bashing Jesus followers....I'm staring hard at you too. It is evil to hate others.


So was Joseph Smith, that doesn't mean we should be provoking Mormons by attacking the Mormon faith.


It takes a lot of provoking to provoke a Mormon. Mormons seem to be given "how to be a nice person to a jerk no matter what crazy shiat they through at you" classes or something. It's hard to imagine Mormons acting like the people in Libya.
 
2012-09-12 01:14:48 PM  

xtragrind: Carn: This is starting to make me really angry. If Romney persists, this might be the thing that buries him before we even get to the debates.

Our countrymen died. If the only reason your team cares about it is to use the situation to attain power, then your team needs to burn in the raging fires of hell.

Obama supported the very rebels/civilians that just stormed our embassy and killed out ambassador.


He did not do this.
 
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