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(AZCentral)   Court of Appeals affirms cops have a constitutional right to taser to death a guy who is choking his three-year-old granddaughter during an exorcism   (azcentral.com) divider line 45
    More: Followup, United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit, wrongful deaths, Circuit Court of Appeals, Taser International, 24th Street, constitutional rights, appeals court  
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3803 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Sep 2012 at 6:02 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-12 03:34:06 AM  
i382.photobucket.com

"I'm literally in the details!"
 
2012-09-12 06:05:48 AM  
25.media.tumblr.com

Choking a 3 year old and NOT stopping after they Tasered him the first two times? Yeah, no tears here. It's not a non-lethal weapon, it's just LESS lethal. It may be hard to get across that threshold, but apparently being a crazy geriatric child strangler with a heart attack does the job nicely.
 
2012-09-12 06:06:28 AM  
Well... that's how you're supposed to do it, isn't it?
images3.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2012-09-12 06:06:32 AM  
This would be ok if the police didn`t have other tools at their disposal, say for example, arms with hands on to grab him and stop him choking a 3 year old.

They should have tried other methods before using deadly non-lethal force
 
2012-09-12 06:06:32 AM  
Choking a 3 year old and NOT stopping after they Tasered him the first two times? Yeah, no tears here. It's not a non-lethal weapon, it's just LESS lethal. It may be hard to get across that threshold, but apparently being a crazy geriatric child strangler with a heart attack condition does the job nicely.

FTFM
 
2012-09-12 06:06:54 AM  
0-media-cdn.foolz.us
 
2012-09-12 06:11:42 AM  

yukichigai: It's not a non-lethal weapon


They were introduced as non lethal and that is how they are used and regarded by officers. If their classification has changed there should be a review. At a minimum similar restriction to using other lethal weapons should be intoduced.

Not defending choking 3 year olds BTW
 
2012-09-12 06:14:31 AM  
What I don't understand is the family. Do they really care that this monster of a man was killed as he tried to kill members of the family or it is all about the money?
 
2012-09-12 06:16:20 AM  

dready zim: They should have tried other methods before using deadly non-lethal force


Nobody wants to try to wrestle dude so crazy he's impervious to the first couple tazer shots, especially when he's convinced a) everyone is possessed by demons, and b) the best way to get the demons out is through eye-gouging and strangulation.

I'm usually pretty hard on the cops in these sorts of threads, but that's the exact sort of situation in which tazing the shiat out of someone is justified.
 
2012-09-12 06:17:41 AM  

dready zim: Not defending choking 3 year olds BTW


Dude, you've GOT to try it.
 
2012-09-12 06:17:47 AM  
I hate to give anyone a chance to call me racist (I hate pretty much everybody equally), but going by the location and names of the family, they were Mexican immigrants. Legal, or non-legal, I'm thinking they saw this as a chance at a government payday.
 
2012-09-12 06:18:30 AM  
"The bedroom walls and furniture were smeared with blood and the man's naked 19-year-old daughter was in the corner screaming and holding a religious picture, documents show. She had been beaten by Marquez, who attempted to gouge her eye in an attempt to exorcize her demons, records show."

But remember, it's unfair to pick on religion because it's just one of many reasons people commit horrible acts of cruelty.

/ducks and runs
 
2012-09-12 06:23:27 AM  
It probably wasn't the Tasers that did him in - he was wrestling with the cops after the Tasers didn't stop him.

If you're having a heart attack, you don't generally fight back. His heart probably gave out while he was fighting the cops - or after they cuffed him. It's amazing how often people have heart attacks after a big stress or heavy exercise instead of during the time their heart rate was up.
 
2012-09-12 06:27:00 AM  

Active introvert: What I don't understand is the family. Do they really care that this monster of a man was killed as he tried to kill members of the family or it is all about the money?


Y'know, on further consideration I could see this being a tragic case of an elderly person having an "episode" for the first time, and this was the result. A bad interaction of medications or maybe a micro-stroke that caused him to turn from "lovable ol' Gramps" into "BURN THE UNCLEAN" in very short order. In that case I could see the family's actions as being more understandable, since from their end something went horribly wrong with a member of their family, and the people they called for help hastened his death instead.

I still agree with the court's decision, but that adds an extra-tragic twist to the whole thing if that was the case.
 
2012-09-12 06:32:54 AM  

Active introvert: What I don't understand is the family. Do they really care that this monster of a man was killed as he tried to kill members of the family or it is all about the money?


/Nah, they were just hoping for a payout. Ogre is dead...good..now for da cash....
//fail
 
2012-09-12 06:33:27 AM  

UltimaCS: "The bedroom walls and furniture were smeared with blood and the man's naked 19-year-old daughter was in the corner screaming and holding a religious picture, documents show. She had been beaten by Marquez, who attempted to gouge her eye in an attempt to exorcize her demons, records show."

But remember, it's unfair to pick on religion because it's just one of many reasons people commit horrible acts of cruelty.

/ducks and runs



i.imgur.com
 
2012-09-12 06:38:49 AM  
Yeah, when a guy is choking a baby, that is one of the cases when I am A-ok with police using whatever force is needed as long as they don't hurt the baby.

Good for the cops.
 
2012-09-12 07:02:25 AM  
Oh man, a Religious Nutjobs vs Cops thread?

Check your popcorn supplies, people!
 
2012-09-12 07:08:32 AM  

Yes, Yes, OK, all points here have value, but ya'll are missing the point.

Was the 3 y/o hot?

i2.kym-cdn.com
 
2012-09-12 07:15:20 AM  

Active introvert: What I don't understand is the family. Do they really care that this monster of a man was killed as he tried to kill members of the family or it is all about the money?


You'd be surprised at the number of domestic violence cases where the cops are jumped by an abused Wife.
Its kind of like Stockholm syndrome, where the victim becomes dependent on her captor and freaks the fark out when he's being arrested.

We see him as a monster choking a child. They still see him as a father.

dready zim: They should have tried other methods before using deadly non-lethal force


I hate to monday-morning quarterback the cops because they might have seen things differently.
The child might be trampled in the struggle to free it. They might have been concerned he would snap its neck or maybe the position just didn't allow an easy grapple. Maybe he seemed to be too big a guy for them to wrestle with.

Tasers should be billed as "less than lethal" rather than non-lethal, but considering the circumstances I think the use was very much justified.
They did what they could with what they had.
 
2012-09-12 07:42:54 AM  
Choking a 3 year old? Nuke it from orbit.
 
2012-09-12 08:06:08 AM  
Too bad they used a taser. Sounds like they should have shot the guy in the face and called it a justifiable homicide.

Oh well, good kill guys.
 
2012-09-12 08:19:18 AM  
Correct me if I'm wrong here people, but don't tazers hit you with an electrical charge? And don't muscles contract when electrified? Thus increasing the chokehold?

cops kill religious child beating loony? i'm so torn!! what side should I support, someone please tell me what to believe!!!!
 
2012-09-12 08:19:52 AM  

liam76: Yeah, when a guy is choking a baby, that is one of the cases when I am A-ok with police using whatever force is needed as long as they don't hurt the baby.


Hmmm, I'm not totally familiar with tasers, but if the guy was in physical contact with the child, wouldn't some of the electricity be transfered to the child through him? I'd think maybe pepper spray would be a better choice in that situation; even if some gets on the kid, it's not going to do any lasting harm...

But, whatever... It all worked out, and the only one dead is the asshole choking a baby, so yeah... Good on the cops!
 
2012-09-12 08:28:48 AM  

dready zim: This would be ok if the police didn`t have other tools at their disposal, say for example, arms with hands on to grab him and stop him choking a 3 year old.

They should have tried other methods before using deadly non-lethal force


So several jolts of electricity had no effect, but tugging on his arm might have?

You're the same person that wants the cops to shoot people in the hand, aren't you?
 
2012-09-12 08:32:18 AM  

dready zim: yukichigai: It's not a non-lethal weapon

They were introduced as non lethal and that is how they are used and regarded by officers. If their classification has changed there should be a review. At a minimum similar restriction to using other lethal weapons should be intoduced.

Not defending choking 3 year olds BTW


It's somewhat misleading. The only deaths "attributed" to them are when someone has a preexisting heart condition, basically. So, in that sense, if the cops chased someone on foot for awhile and they died of a heard attack, would you say that chasing someone on foot is a deadly weapon or that the chasing killed them?

It's not categorized as a "less-lethal" weapon typically because it's not what is doing the killing. It's the heart being already farked up.

Bean bag shotguns, on the other hand, are termed "less-lethal" because if you shoot someone in certain spots with one it's capable of being lethal....just less so than an actual bullet.
 
2012-09-12 08:36:24 AM  
Also, a fun little tidbit... The cops would have been perfectly justified in just walking up to the guy and shooting him in the head. The immediate threat to the life of the child makes such action both legally and (in my opinion) morally justifiable. They actually showed restraint by trying to use the taser and wrestle.
 
2012-09-12 08:57:27 AM  

Gunther: dready zim: They should have tried other methods before using deadly non-lethal force

Nobody wants to try to wrestle dude so crazy he's impervious to the first couple tazer shots, especially when he's convinced a) everyone is possessed by demons, and b) the best way to get the demons out is through eye-gouging and strangulation.

I'm usually pretty hard on the cops in these sorts of threads, but that's the exact sort of situation in which tazing the shiat out of someone is justified.


Indeed. BTW while the headline is very Fark-worthy it is pretty damn unfair to those in the situation.

Hell, were it not for the chance of hitting the 3 year old I'd have been fine with them putting straight up bullets into the guy in this situation. Hell, even with tasering there still is a good chance of the charge hitting the kid too.

People who believe in demons and possession are people who believe in crazy, insane shiat.
 
2012-09-12 08:57:53 AM  

Gunther: dready zim: They should have tried other methods before using deadly non-lethal force

Nobody wants to try to wrestle dude so crazy he's impervious to the first couple tazer shots, especially when he's convinced a) everyone is possessed by demons, and b) the best way to get the demons out is through eye-gouging and strangulation.

I'm usually pretty hard on the cops in these sorts of threads, but that's the exact sort of situation in which tazing the shiat out of someone is justified.


Not only this , but when these cops are within arms reach of crazy grandpa it also means that crazy grandpa is within arms reach of the officers gun.
 
2012-09-12 09:08:21 AM  
imagine how those cops felt that day.
"Hmm, nice day to be out patrolling the streets, yes, partner?"
"I wonder if anything exciting will happen, you know that 99% of us never fire our weapons in our entire career"
"Oh, a domestic call a couple blocks away, let's go, hope it's nothing to crazy."
"Oh look at this, a blood-smeared room, a grandfather chocking a 3 year old to death, and oh look over there! A naked 19 year old girl whimpering in the corner with eyeball damage!"

/the rest of the day would probably be a blur.
 
2012-09-12 09:09:31 AM  

RobSeace: liam76: Yeah, when a guy is choking a baby, that is one of the cases when I am A-ok with police using whatever force is needed as long as they don't hurt the baby.

Hmmm, I'm not totally familiar with tasers, but if the guy was in physical contact with the child, wouldn't some of the electricity be transfered to the child through him? I'd think maybe pepper spray would be a better choice in that situation; even if some gets on the kid, it's not going to do any lasting harm...

But, whatever... It all worked out, and the only one dead is the asshole choking a baby, so yeah... Good on the cops!


Tasers aren't different from other forms of electricity. The path of least electrical resistance would have been from one taser probe to the other one, not through the child.
 
2012-09-12 09:22:10 AM  
Religion of peace!
 
2012-09-12 09:42:44 AM  
I'm okay with this.

I'd add myself to the list of people who think they should have saved the tazing and shot him in the head, but that would have been more traumatic for the three year old, who is already having a hell of a day and doesn't need to be covered with Grandpa's brains.

I hate police brutality. This isn't it.

Also, I sure as HELL hope that Grandpa went over the edge and was acting on his own without the family's knowledge. Can you imagine being three (or nineteen) and being told by your family that there are actual devils inside of you? Get that poor baby some therapy. Or a new family. Or both...
 
2012-09-12 10:04:29 AM  
Very dangerous shock hazard to the child being choked. Put gun barrel tightly to the forehead and pull the trigger.
 
2012-09-12 10:06:59 AM  
I can't find that the cops did a single thing wrong. Here in the Twin Cities a cop was ruled justified in shooting a suspect who had a knife after he stabbed a three year old kid. I think it was a non-fatal shot. I thought "The cop could have sodomized the suspect with his gun and still be justified."
 
2012-09-12 10:08:45 AM  

Silly Jesus: Also, a fun little tidbit... The cops would have been perfectly justified in just walking up to the guy and shooting him in the head. The immediate threat to the life of the child makes such action both legally and (in my opinion) morally justifiable. They actually showed restraint by trying to use the taser and wrestle.


Oh Silly Jesus, you so not silly!
 
2012-09-12 10:10:33 AM  

tkwasny: Very dangerous shock hazard to the child being choked. Put gun barrel tightly to the forehead and pull the trigger.


Not every officer of the law has Vash the Stampede's accuracy even at point blank range.
 
2012-09-12 10:49:38 AM  
api.ning.com

approves
 
2012-09-12 10:56:28 AM  
I think the second someone says "We need an exorcism" you should be allowed to do to them whatever you want as they have clearly lost all perspective on reality and could not be relied upon to act as a rational member of society. These people need to be taken down hard and taken down fast and using something that wouldn't endanger people on the other side of walls or the 3 year was an excellent move.
 
2012-09-12 11:02:30 AM  
Really? None of the first three comments pointed out that the police spokeswoman's name is Toni Maccarone?
 
2012-09-12 11:08:59 AM  
According to TFA, the Taser had no role in his death. Cause of death was "excited delirium", which basically means he overdosed. Also, if the guy was in that state, pepper spray would have no effect on him. If anything, it would have made it harder for the officers to arrest him.
 
gja [TotalFark]
2012-09-12 11:19:48 AM  
This....
encrypted-tbn1.google.com
applied swiftly and firmly to the back of his head, and grandpa would have been down for the count.

/then you could have the fun of sending his azz to jail and throw him in GP after letting the other 'mates he is a kiddy abuser 
//jailarity AND hilarity would ensue
 
2012-09-12 11:43:39 AM  
I like to be the first one on the cop hating band wagon. In this situation however:

Gunther: dready zim: They should have tried other methods before using deadly non-lethal force

Nobody wants to try to wrestle dude so crazy he's impervious to the first couple tazer shots, especially when he's convinced a) everyone is possessed by demons, and b) the best way to get the demons out is through eye-gouging and strangulation.

I'm usually pretty hard on the cops in these sorts of threads, but that's the exact sort of situation in which tazing the shiat out of someone is justified.


/this
 
2012-09-12 03:17:04 PM  
Two stories here:

-Cops use a taser: Good on them, this is the exact situation they should be used in.

-Taser defends that tasers aren't lethal: In this case well not much lost but it's a precedent that gets set for when they are in court because they tased an 8 year old for not being compliant and they die. It's a weapon, people die from its use. It is a lethal weapon. Trust me, the DA ain't going to reduce the charges on you for using a weapon that otherwise wouldn't cause a death on a healthy person.
 
2012-09-12 07:37:18 PM  
Everyone who believes in exorcisms should die in the exact same way.
 
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