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(Hot Air)   Paul Ryan: We stand with Mayor Rahm Emanuel against the Chicago teachers' union. Wait. Ryan and Rahm on the same side....my god 2012 is the end of the world   (hotair.com) divider line 179
    More: Interesting, Mayor Rahm Emanuel, Paul Ryan, Chicago, big labor, Chicago teachers  
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630 clicks; posted to Politics » on 11 Sep 2012 at 10:07 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-11 10:08:17 AM
paul ryan's hatred of the working class outweighs his hatred of democrats.
 
2012-09-11 10:10:20 AM
You can pretty much guarantee that on all major issues of labor and management, Dems and GOP will side with management.
 
2012-09-11 10:10:59 AM
We'll see how the Chicago thing works out. I can't decide if Rahm is ensuring himself lifelong incumbency or guaranteed defeat in the next election. It's not going to help him to be linked, however parenthetically, to the whole Wisconsins "let's just declare unions null and void" thing. That won't play well in Chicago.
 
2012-09-11 10:12:34 AM
but Ryan knows a political opportunity when he sees one.

This sums up the man completely. He is an opportunist, always has been. This is why he can't talk about his voting record, because in reality he is far from the beacon of fiscal conservatism that he pretends to be. Just another run of the mill empty suit with a fake smile and Midwestern accent.
 
2012-09-11 10:13:36 AM

Great_Milenko: paul ryan's hatred of the working class outweighs his hatred of democrats.

 

24.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-09-11 10:13:54 AM
Clearly then, a reasonable person would side with the teachers.
 
2012-09-11 10:14:47 AM
Oh noez, the poor teachers making $76K plus benefits! Who shall speak for THEM??!

/voted for Obama before, will vote for him again.
 
2012-09-11 10:15:37 AM

whatsupchuck: Clearly then, a reasonable person would side with the teachers.


If it's for 5% increased pay, yes. If it's for benefits that would allow them to cash out 300+ days at the end of their career or have to pay little to nothing for healthcare, no.
 
2012-09-11 10:16:25 AM
Wait. Ryan and Rahm on the same side

No surprise, really. They both have dictatorial aspirations.
 
2012-09-11 10:17:41 AM
Before I declare my support I need to know what side is Chief Keef on. I do not want to be opposite him.
 
2012-09-11 10:17:46 AM
We don't need no education?
 
2012-09-11 10:18:03 AM
Ryan stands against people who work for a living? Somehow I do not find this shocking.
 
2012-09-11 10:19:26 AM
I'm a teacher, and reading about this makes me really sad. I'm annoyed with the idea that all teachers are entitled little brats. These guys in Chicago were getting screwed. Their contract wasn't being honored, and the offer of a replacement was a piece of shiat. So they negotiated. It didn't work. This is their new message.

Paul Ryan has balls calling out anyone in the public sector considering how comfortably he's lived off of Social Security, then forgets to mention it when he talks about his bootstrappiness.
 
2012-09-11 10:20:01 AM
Politicians are not the working class, they will always side with management.
 
2012-09-11 10:20:27 AM
Not really so surprising if you've been paying attention for the past thirty years or so.

4.bp.blogspot.com

/Hot.
 
2012-09-11 10:21:16 AM

coeyagi: whatsupchuck: Clearly then, a reasonable person would side with the teachers.

If it's for 5% increased pay, yes. If it's for benefits that would allow them to cash out 300+ days at the end of their career or have to pay little to nothing for healthcare, no.


Would you rather teachers call out sick 300+ days over the course of 20 years?

Seriously. We are in the most infectious environment and we get sick a lot. I have 120 sick days accumulated because I show up. Even when I have a slight cold. I'm supposed to be penalized at the end of 35 years for COMING to work?

Fark off.
 
2012-09-11 10:21:56 AM
End of the world?

"Politics makes strange bedfellows."

This quote has been around since 1870.
 
2012-09-11 10:23:16 AM

coeyagi: whatsupchuck: Clearly then, a reasonable person would side with the teachers.

If it's for 5% increased pay, yes. If it's for benefits that would allow them to cash out 300+ days at the end of their career or have to pay little to nothing for healthcare, no.


Why don't you actually read what the strike is about rather than making stuff up? It'd be useful.

Link
 
2012-09-11 10:23:51 AM
Because we can't have educational standards, can we?

Here are the facts (outside of the pay raise crap) "Eager to improve Chicago's schools, Mr. Emanuel has taken several steps - among them pressing the school board to rescind a promised 4 percent raise - and made numerous demands that have infuriated the Chicago Teachers Union. He wants student test performance to count heavily in evaluating teachers for tenure, even though the union insists that is a highly unreliable way to assess teachers. And with Mr. Emanuel intent on shuttering dozens of poorly performing schools, the union is pressing him to agree to strong provisions to reinstate teachers in other schools when theirs are closed."

Also:

This year Chicago Public Schools began rolling out a new system in which student test scores would count for 25% of a teacher's performance rating. It would increase to 30% in two years. The union believes the system is too heavily weighted toward test scores and could put thousands of teachers out of work.

Standardized tests are what is wrong with America. It would be nice if administrators had options to get rid of underperforming teachers regardless of test scores. I'm OK with having 25% be test scores, but teaching is an art, not a science. The minute you make teachers teach the tests and not the subject matter or the critical thinking skills, you are no longer teaching. This has happened in a lot of schools.

Getting rid of underperforming teachers should be the job at the administrative level, and decisions should be both quantitative and qualitative. If you find the teacher's students are acing their tests but have zero ability at the next grade to learn, then maybe you're doing it wrong.

And when do you start holding parents and students accountable? Some teachers inherit the failures of their students to learn, and have even less luck dealing w/parents who have no time for their children other than to biatch at the teacher.
 
2012-09-11 10:24:41 AM

theteacher: I'm supposed to be penalized at the end of 35 years for COMING to work?


This teacher was penalized for coming at work...

www.debralafave.com
 
2012-09-11 10:25:42 AM

TimonC346: I'm a teacher, and reading about this makes me really sad. I'm annoyed with the idea that all teachers are entitled little brats. These guys in Chicago were getting screwed. Their contract wasn't being honored, and the offer of a replacement was a piece of shiat. So they negotiated. It didn't work. This is their new message.

Paul Ryan has balls calling out anyone in the public sector considering how comfortably he's lived off of Social Security, then forgets to mention it when he talks about his bootstrappiness.


That's the thing, people are gut deciding based on partisanship vs. actually looking at the details and then making a decision. The evil Dems. vs. evil Teachers vs. The Unions. Quite the dilemma for a Republican forced to take sides. Most did poorly in school so they might want to side with the evil Dems here. In Ryans case, he would support whatever scored the most political points, I doubt that he actually read up on the issues. Yeah, Ryan is a lifer at the public teat, just like Scott Walker. Ryan even used SS benefits to put himself though school, so bootstrappy!
 
2012-09-11 10:25:47 AM
These teachers striking now = bad timing for democrats
 
2012-09-11 10:26:15 AM
The workers must obey!

--The Ballerina
 
2012-09-11 10:26:22 AM

theteacher: coeyagi: whatsupchuck: Clearly then, a reasonable person would side with the teachers.

If it's for 5% increased pay, yes. If it's for benefits that would allow them to cash out 300+ days at the end of their career or have to pay little to nothing for healthcare, no.

Would you rather teachers call out sick 300+ days over the course of 20 years?

Seriously. We are in the most infectious environment and we get sick a lot. I have 120 sick days accumulated because I show up. Even when I have a slight cold. I'm supposed to be penalized at the end of 35 years for COMING to work?

Fark off.


Fark off, real world. I'm comfortable in my little bunker here.
 
2012-09-11 10:26:53 AM

coeyagi: whatsupchuck: Clearly then, a reasonable person would side with the teachers.

If it's for 5% increased pay, yes. If it's for benefits that would allow them to cash out 300+ days at the end of their career or have to pay little to nothing for healthcare, no.


It would be preferable for those teachers to use all that time off and be out of the classroom more often? The district I teach in has been reducing the amount you get for unused sick leave over the last couple decades. Now it's about 20%. By the time I'd be eligible for retirement in 20+ years I'm not counting on having the option available. I know teachers who call out much more time off than I do to make up for that now and knew of a teacher when I was in school in a district that didn't offer this who simply came in once a week to show a video and had a substitute in every other day. Quality education right there.
That said the teachers in Chicago have it a good deal better than most others nationwide, I consider it unfortunate that this is going to paint us all as greedy in the media, but am also glad that there is some action being taken to draw attention to the underfunding of education in America today.
 
2012-09-11 10:27:40 AM

indylaw: Oh noez, the poor teachers making $76K plus benefits! Who shall speak for THEM??!

/voted for Obama before, will vote for him again.


Well to be fair I do believe that Chicago teachers are required to live within the city limits and Chicago is an expensive city to live in. Also they have to pay more into their health care and pensions than teachers in other cities have to. And another thing, every teacher isn't making that much. The ones that are making that much have had 20+ years in. I know that they are having a problem keeping younger teachers because the pay for them is lower than what they can get elsewhere.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-09-11 10:28:00 AM

indylaw: Oh noez, the poor teachers making $76K plus benefits! Who shall speak for THEM??!

/voted for Obama before, will vote for him again.


Yeah, like they actually make anywhere near that.

It's still funny how we are supposed to hate teachers who actually do something productive for making
 
2012-09-11 10:28:03 AM

coeyagi: whatsupchuck: Clearly then, a reasonable person would side with the teachers.

If it's for 5% increased pay, yes. If it's for benefits that would allow them to cash out 300+ days at the end of their career or have to pay little to nothing for healthcare, no.


Also:

How about getting instruction materials on the day of classes, not days or weeks later? Yes, this actually had to be negotiated because it's a problem for teachers in the CPS. That's bullshiat and the teachers are right to include that in the demands.

How about demanding a reasonable timetable for when classes are going to be climate-controlled? With longer school years, teachers find themselves trying to do their jobs in 90+ degree closed, stuffy classrooms (no window opening for noise and security reasons).

How about not having their health care costs triple?

How about not having their 2007 contract basically ripped up by the city?

We could go on.
 
2012-09-11 10:28:54 AM

indylaw: Oh noez, the poor teachers making $76K plus benefits! Who shall speak for THEM??!

/voted for Obama before, will vote for him again.


Apparently pay isn't what they are arguing over.
http://www.ctunet.com/blog/cps-fails-to-negotiate-fair-contract-to-pr e vent-first-labor-strike-in-25-years

That said, I still find the whole thing rather silly. The point about Air-Conditioning though, I agree, its getting hotter, these northern schools are starting to need AC.
 
2012-09-11 10:29:14 AM
I saw this little detail on a CNN article yesterday. I can't find that one, but here's a cite from yahoo.finance.

Lewis acknowledges that some progress has been made in the negotiations, including putting more than 500 teachers back to work, restoring some liberal arts classes to the curriculum and guaranteeing new textbooks on the first day of school versus having to wait six weeks for instructional materials.

What difference does it make if the teachers are on strike for a few days? The kids still got more than five weeks before they'll even get their textbooks.
Just saying, if a school district can fark up something as simple as putting books in front of students then I find it easy to believe that that the source of the problems might not be the teachers themselves.
 
2012-09-11 10:29:37 AM
Despite agreeing with the teachers this is a really crappy year to strike.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-09-11 10:29:53 AM

More_Like_A_Stain: theteacher: I'm supposed to be penalized at the end of 35 years for COMING to work?

This teacher was penalized for coming at work...

[www.debralafave.com image 285x415]


She should have gotten a bonus.
 
2012-09-11 10:29:54 AM
www.theblaze.com

If there's one thing I hate worse than Obama's ultraliberal, Chicago-style political attack dog, it's teachers.

Sweet Jebus, I hates me some teachers.
 
2012-09-11 10:29:57 AM
The entirety of the teachers union decided that at the most sensitive point in the election cycle that they would hold the city hostage for a very small financial gain. fark Them. Destroy them. I am a registered Democrat, fire them all. Lay off the entirety of the Teachers Union, hire scabs, move on. There is no farking excuse for this other than to hold a city hostage for a very small gain.

Run them out of town, and their families. Salt their farms. Thanks a lot you useless farks you just set unions back 50 years.

/when the fark did the unions start getting run by Karl Rove?
 
2012-09-11 10:30:29 AM

coeyagi: whatsupchuck: Clearly then, a reasonable person would side with the teachers.

If it's for 5% increased pay, yes. If it's for benefits that would allow them to cash out 300+ days at the end of their career or have to pay little to nothing for healthcare, no.


The magic internet box in front of you makes it possible to know these things.

Some of the issues include class size, availability of air conditioning, reference books, resources in general.
 
2012-09-11 10:33:43 AM

whatsupchuck: coeyagi: whatsupchuck: Clearly then, a reasonable person would side with the teachers.

If it's for 5% increased pay, yes. If it's for benefits that would allow them to cash out 300+ days at the end of their career or have to pay little to nothing for healthcare, no.

The magic internet box in front of you makes it possible to know these things.

Some of the issues include class size, availability of air conditioning, reference books, resources in general.



The magic of the conditional means that if certain conditions do not exist, I do not agree. So fark off dude.
 
2012-09-11 10:34:28 AM
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-09-11 10:34:29 AM

vpb: indylaw: Oh noez, the poor teachers making $76K plus benefits! Who shall speak for THEM??!

/voted for Obama before, will vote for him again.

Yeah, like they actually make anywhere near that.

It's still funny how we are supposed to hate teachers who actually do something productive for making


It's still funny how we are supposed to hate teachers who actually do something productive for making less than $100k but if you don't like corporate raiders who make tens of millions destroying companies then it's class warfare.
 
2012-09-11 10:34:43 AM

DamnYankees: coeyagi: whatsupchuck: Clearly then, a reasonable person would side with the teachers.

If it's for 5% increased pay, yes. If it's for benefits that would allow them to cash out 300+ days at the end of their career or have to pay little to nothing for healthcare, no.

Why don't you actually read what the strike is about rather than making stuff up? It'd be useful.

Link


I made nothing up, genius. I used the word "if".
 
2012-09-11 10:34:47 AM
People treat their kids so oddly to me. If its any social issue:

img.neeerd.com

But if teachers ask for a cost of living adjustment:

i.minus.com 

So sure, implement a zero tolerance policy and expel kids who bring midol or a drawing of a gun to school, ignorance is *cheap*.
 
2012-09-11 10:36:34 AM

coeyagi: DamnYankees: coeyagi: whatsupchuck: Clearly then, a reasonable person would side with the teachers.

If it's for 5% increased pay, yes. If it's for benefits that would allow them to cash out 300+ days at the end of their career or have to pay little to nothing for healthcare, no.

Why don't you actually read what the strike is about rather than making stuff up? It'd be useful.

Link

I made nothing up, genius. I used the word "if".


Oh, ok then. Well, if you're mother had not slept with an Albanian goat 9 months prior to your birth, we wouldn't be having this argument.
 
2012-09-11 10:37:02 AM
I could be wrong on this, but I thought that a big part of this was Rahm demanding that teachers teach an extra 90 minutes a day, while denying teachers a raise that was contractually due last year.

So yeah, I can see Ryan being for this..."Yay! Work more for less! Who cares what the contract said!"
 
2012-09-11 10:38:00 AM
Only in this country can you have close to half the population believing a narrative that paints millionaires and billionaires as victims and teachers and public employees as the villains. If you believe this line of thinking, you're either retarded, an asshole, or both.
 
2012-09-11 10:38:03 AM

orclover: The entirety of the teachers union decided that at the most sensitive point in the election cycle that they would hold the city hostage for a very small financial gain. fark Them. Destroy them. I am a registered Democrat, fire them all. Lay off the entirety of the Teachers Union, hire scabs, move on. There is no farking excuse for this other than to hold a city hostage for a very small gain.

Run them out of town, and their families. Salt their farms. Thanks a lot you useless farks you just set unions back 50 years.

/when the fark did the unions start getting run by Karl Rove?


Read about how it is NOT about pay. Rahman offered 16% raise. Farking 16%. And they are not stuck on that.
 
2012-09-11 10:38:23 AM

theteacher: coeyagi: whatsupchuck: Clearly then, a reasonable person would side with the teachers.

If it's for 5% increased pay, yes. If it's for benefits that would allow them to cash out 300+ days at the end of their career or have to pay little to nothing for healthcare, no.

Would you rather teachers call out sick 300+ days over the course of 20 years?

Seriously. We are in the most infectious environment and we get sick a lot. I have 120 sick days accumulated because I show up. Even when I have a slight cold. I'm supposed to be penalized at the end of 35 years for COMING to work?

Fark off.


You do understand that the vast vast majority of Americans don't get sick days that accumulate (and then get paid out at retirement and included in average salary calculations for a pension). So stop your biatching. You already get 2 months off every summer. Once you finish your Masters you can spend summer doing whatever you want,
 
2012-09-11 10:40:32 AM
The optics of this strike are gruesome for Democrats: You've got the best paid teachers in the country, who already take home nearly $30,000 per year more on average than the average Chicago family, walking out on kids in Obama's own hometown even though a friendly Democratic face in Rahm Emanuel is on the other side of the table.

Oh look, another variation on the classic "Grrr! Look at those darn overpaid teachers" sound byte.

The One...

[nationalreviewpalincover]
 
2012-09-11 10:40:57 AM

DamnYankees: coeyagi: DamnYankees: coeyagi: whatsupchuck: Clearly then, a reasonable person would side with the teachers.

If it's for 5% increased pay, yes. If it's for benefits that would allow them to cash out 300+ days at the end of their career or have to pay little to nothing for healthcare, no.

Why don't you actually read what the strike is about rather than making stuff up? It'd be useful.

Link

I made nothing up, genius. I used the word "if".

Oh, ok then. Well, if you're mother had not slept with an Albanian goat 9 months prior to your birth, we wouldn't be having this argument.


See, that doesn't work either. Your conditional exists as such that one reality occurred (which it didn't) and we'd be having a different conversation if that reality didn't occur (which it didn't). My conditional is such that I was basically begging the question "was this in the package?" and if so, I would not be in favor of it.

All conditionals are not created equal.
 
2012-09-11 10:41:03 AM
It's really sad that the rich have become victims and teachers are the greedy evil ones.
 
2012-09-11 10:41:13 AM

bdub77: Because we can't have educational standards, can we?

Here are the facts (outside of the pay raise crap) "Eager to improve Chicago's schools, Mr. Emanuel has taken several steps - among them pressing the school board to rescind a promised 4 percent raise - and made numerous demands that have infuriated the Chicago Teachers Union. He wants student test performance to count heavily in evaluating teachers for tenure, even though the union insists that is a highly unreliable way to assess teachers. And with Mr. Emanuel intent on shuttering dozens of poorly performing schools, the union is pressing him to agree to strong provisions to reinstate teachers in other schools when theirs are closed."

Also:

This year Chicago Public Schools began rolling out a new system in which student test scores would count for 25% of a teacher's performance rating. It would increase to 30% in two years. The union believes the system is too heavily weighted toward test scores and could put thousands of teachers out of work.

Standardized tests are what is wrong with America. It would be nice if administrators had options to get rid of underperforming teachers regardless of test scores. I'm OK with having 25% be test scores, but teaching is an art, not a science. The minute you make teachers teach the tests and not the subject matter or the critical thinking skills, you are no longer teaching. This has happened in a lot of schools.

Getting rid of underperforming teachers should be the job at the administrative level, and decisions should be both quantitative and qualitative. If you find the teacher's students are acing their tests but have zero ability at the next grade to learn, then maybe you're doing it wrong.

And when do you start holding parents and students accountable? Some teachers inherit the failures of their students to learn, and have even less luck dealing w/parents who have no time for their children other than to biatch at the teacher.


It's always about the pay CRAP in some form. You seem to have left out this part:

The school district has offered a 16 percent raise over four years - double an 8 percent offer made earlier - as well as ''modified step increases'' that it says reward experience and provide ''better incentives for mid-career teachers'' to keep them from leaving. The district also wants to do away with the ability of teachers to bank sick days but is offering short-term disability, including paid maternity leave. With an average salary of $76,000, Chicago teachers are among the highest-paid in the nation, according to the National Council on Teacher Quality.

So, it appears the teachers are being offered 4 percent base salary increases. The sticking point comes with the second-tier of the teacher annual pay increases, step increases. Those are tied to years of service and seperate from the base increase.

Modifying the step increases is the sticking point there. Instead of getting them guaranteed the city wants to tie them to performance.

The banking of sick days is a gem. A product of the good ol' days. Most private employers and even government jobs don't allow this anymore. Paid maternity leave is pretty sweet, though.

The third tier of the three annual pay increases teachers can get, tied to continuing education, appears untouched. Online courses make this much easier and cheaper for teachers to grab this annual increase and that is hitting school districts' budgets hard.
 
2012-09-11 10:41:27 AM

coeyagi: whatsupchuck: Clearly then, a reasonable person would side with the teachers.

If it's for 5% increased pay, yes. If it's for benefits that would allow them to cash out 300+ days at the end of their career or have to pay little to nothing for healthcare, no.


I know in other industries your un-used sick days turn into basically a small bonus (not equivalent to an entire day of pay, but still), you're not allowed to actually turn them into vacation days because that'd disrupt the work schedule severely.

So depending on the implementation, some form of cash-out is not an unreasonable request. Employer-provided health care of some magnitude is fairly industry-standard as well.

Basically this doesn't strike me as a conflict where either side is being off-the-wall unreasonable in their demands, the city's insistence on economic efficiency is a real and meaningful concern and if the union is asking for too much it's a question of magnitude rather than some sort of truly outlandish demands. I can see having an opinion here but I can't see really vilifying one side or the other. Which seems to be the general attitude of the people actually involved, to be fair: Rahm isn't bad-mouthing the teachers and the protesters appear to be cracking jokes about his musical tastes rather than comparing him to hitler or something.

Basically I'd expect this conflict to eventually end amiably and make Ryan look like an idiot. Again.
 
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