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(Den Of Geek)   The plot problems facing an Independence Day sequel   (denofgeek.com) divider line 233
    More: Interesting, Independence Days, Independence Day sequels, Roland Emmerich, Bill Pullman, resistance group, Jeff Goldblum, alien invasion, sequels  
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18135 clicks; posted to Geek » on 11 Sep 2012 at 10:36 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-11 01:19:57 PM  

robohobo: MagSeven: I just pretend that District 9 is the sequel. Just like I pretend the Terminator movies are a prequel to The Matrix.

I've long thought that the Terminator films were Matrix prequels.

/poor sarah connor. no way cancer beat her. she'd beat cancer with a farking handgun


and Red Dawn is a sequel to Dirty Dancing
 
2012-09-11 01:24:47 PM  

Coelacanth: Do we have the right to exterminate a species that deserves to be exterminated? Then to complicate things, an assassin species that the invaders have ticked off decide it's their right to exterminate them. So do we protect the few remaining Invaders or quietly cheer on the assassins?


Who is to judge what is right and what is wrong? Great and powerful foes surround us; unknown miscreants gnaw at us from within. We are threatened with total annihilation. In days such as these we can afford no luxury of morality.

Some may question your right to destroy ten billion people. But those who understand realise that you have no right to let them live.
 
2012-09-11 01:28:16 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: loonatic112358: FirstNationalBastard: Well, first, wouldn't the people of Earf already be prepared for another invasion?

Not so much, if there was a second wave closely follwing the first, the earf would be easier to take down

Ah, but Earf would find a way to repel the invasion.


Our macbooks are more powerful.
 
2012-09-11 01:29:33 PM  

green4mice: robohobo: MagSeven: I just pretend that District 9 is the sequel. Just like I pretend the Terminator movies are a prequel to The Matrix.

I've long thought that the Terminator films were Matrix prequels.

/poor sarah connor. no way cancer beat her. she'd beat cancer with a farking handgun

and Red Dawn is a sequel to Dirty Dancing


Which was a prequel to Point Break.
 
2012-09-11 01:30:09 PM  

Girion47: The only good part about that movie.

[playwithgender.files.wordpress.com image 575x310]


Too bad she aged like a rose. Beautiful for a short period, then all wilted and gross for the rest of eternity.

If only the movie went for a hard R.. Damn you PG-13 and your no-nudity!!
 
2012-09-11 01:30:45 PM  

Bendal: loonatic112358: FirstNationalBastard: Well, first, wouldn't the people of Earf already be prepared for another invasion?

Not so much, if there was a second wave closely follwing the first, the earf would be easier to take down

It's doubtful that another mother ship would be following the path the first one was taking. It's clear from ID that the aliens landed on a planet and strip mined it for the resources, then left for the next one when it was useless. A second ship following the first one would not find untouched planets to consume, so they would take another path through the galaxy. They also wouldn't be close by for the same reason; planets with resources aren't all that common, so they will spread out.

As for the alien ships on Earth after the movie ended, don't forget the hordes of fighters each one disgorged. Each fighter had at least one pilot; did the defenders destroy every single one? It appeared from the ones we saw that the interior of those ships almost certainly was ruined by the feedback and explosion from the main weapon; we see flames and smoke from all over the ships. Plus the impact of megatons of ship crashing into the planet can't be good for the inhabitants either.


Maybe we can take some of their crashed pilots and teach them to love and learn like humans. Then set them on a path of vengeance against the swarm that abandoned them.
 
2012-09-11 01:30:59 PM  
Earf.

Kwisis on two Earf's

when Earf's Korride

Earf Twoo

Journey to the Center of the Earf.

Earf the Final Frontier

Earf First (second) Contact.
 
2012-09-11 01:39:59 PM  

DarkPascual: Who is to judge what is right and what is wrong?


www.internationalhero.co.uk
 
2012-09-11 01:45:11 PM  

meanmutton: NeoCortex42: Disposable Rob: That article officially thought more about consequnces of the plot than Dean Devlin ever did.

Speaking of Dean Devlin movies, I want my Stargate sequel. They kept kicking around the idea of a direct sequel to the movie, ignoring SG-1. I would love to see what they had planned for that.

They did three movies, three TV series (totaling nearly 400 episodes), and an animated series (26 episodes). I think they've explored the Stargate universe pretty well, frankly.


They changed so much of the mythos in the transition from film to TV, that the original creators of the movie had been wanting to do a proper sequel film for a long time. I don't see it ever happening, but I think it would be pretty cool.
 
2012-09-11 01:46:43 PM  

Strategeryz0r: Girion47: The only good part about that movie.

[playwithgender.files.wordpress.com image 575x310]

Too bad she aged like a rose. Beautiful for a short period, then all wilted and gross for the rest of eternity.

If only the movie went for a hard R.. Damn you PG-13 and your no-nudity!!


you owe me a keyboard. so funnay.
 
2012-09-11 01:52:41 PM  
Why do I get the distinct feeling the author sits around wondering how, exactly, can sparkly vampires really be considered vampires?
 
2012-09-11 01:54:38 PM  
A proper sequel should have been made 98/99 to still preserve the "This is our reality" feel. Anything now would be an alternate reality compared to ours. City's were rebuilt most likely different as a result of the movie. The Alien technology would be part of everything, force fields on the city's and all that. The Air Force would have Lazers on all space planes, as we wait for them to return. The sequel would have to be set in the time frame right after the attacks to preserve that "This is us" feeling.
 
2012-09-11 02:03:34 PM  

liam76: You could argue that the world would be better wihtou all those things we find in a city, but the sudden removal of those would lead to a lot of problems for a few years. Financial ond central govt grinding to a halt could very easily lead to the breakdown of society.


That's what they want you to believe.

Seriously, though... I don't think it would be hard to re-establish central government. Politicians and bureaucrats are about the easiest people to replace. As for financial centers, most banks decentralize their data; NYC HQ buildings are great for execs, but the meat of the banking business is in data centers in the heartland.

ThreadSinger: The details of the movie are a little fuzzy at this point, but I think the total destruction of major cities would have been near complete by the end of the movie. They do mention something about worldwide destruction in 48 or 72 hours, I can't recall. At that level of devastation you probably don't have much infrastructure left nationally, if not globally, aside from possibly power, water, food, sewer, communications, roads, and other necessities at the small-town level. At the local level, farmers and small communities can probably pull through, but like any immediate post-apocalyptic scenario, you now have hordes of survivors deprived of food, shelter, and with no background in survival skills (we do live in the information age), and no system of elected government, law enforcement, etc, aside from whatever areas have surviving and coherent military presence.

If the aliens had invaded, say, 1850's USA, then the chaos would probably be a lot less. But in our-technology dependant age, we've become too dependant on our tools and much would be lost in the destruction of only major cities, not everything else. Even if survivors across the US (or any other nation) banded together, the truth is, we've used up so many resources globally that our civilization would never recover.


I'm still not buying it. Outside of a few strategic cities, most cities aren't centers of industry; but even Detroit or Houston, for example, with their industrial capacity and refineries are not all that centralized... wipe out the skyscrapers, and you've missed 95% of what enables those key resources.

Again, I don't think you'd lose much that couldn't be recovered quickly. In fact, without cities to support, your logistics issues become far simpler (no need to ship tons of product into cities on a daily basis).
 
2012-09-11 02:06:04 PM  

robohobo: Of course we do. They threw the first punch. And if someone can lampshade them better than us, more power to them. Us or them, it's pretty simple. No quietly cheering on, we flat out help the fark out of them. And then take out them too, steal their tech. It's a cold universe, out there.


DarkPascual: Who is to judge what is right and what is wrong? Great and powerful foes surround us; unknown miscreants gnaw at us from within. We are threatened with total annihilation. In days such as these we can afford no luxury of morality.

Some may question your right to destroy ten billion people. But those who understand realise that you have no right to let them live.



Of course one thing you can do is use the first movie for a basis for several movies on how Earth builds a galactic empire by liberating oppressed alien races.
 
2012-09-11 02:06:09 PM  

shifter_: loonatic112358: FirstNationalBastard: Ah, but Earf would find a way to repel the invasion.

with what resources, they sort of used up most of what they had in the end there, if the 2nd fleet was within a year or two of the first, they'd find an earth still struggling to repair itself

decimated population, many military installations gone, much of the manufacturing capacity gone, mind you Detroit should still be ok, as the author points out a very cold winter from the smoking ruins of the crashed ships,

You could maybe do a survival and rebuild series off that, ending with the earflings getting off this rock to find out what's out there

Except there is no second wave..... the president clearly said, after being in telepathic link, that it was thier entire society, moving from one location to the next..... We doomed yet another species to extinction, which we have actually been quite good at for a while! A broader idea would be survivors of the alien crash fighting earth forces in ground battles.


Easy ways around that. Hive mind aliens so anyone not part of their hive is not their society. Could be plenty of other groups out there.

It also doesn't make much sense for there to only be one mother ship. Keeping with the bug/hive mind idea, bugs can swarm and split their colonies so not far fetched to think there would be more out there. Since these are intelligent beings it is more reasonable to assume they sent the soldiers of the group in to take out the only threat in the system while the workers and/or more fighters would come in later or have already started working elsewhere in system to gather resources.
 
2012-09-11 02:09:19 PM  

thecpt: Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: That in itself is a plot hole. The Roswell Crash was in 1948. The movie was set almost 50 years later. Plenty of time for the aliens to improve their computers. And then there's how "reverse engineered" is never as good as the original.

Maybe it was a standard platform that was designated to be left alone? You wouldn't want incompatible systems when you could be light years apart, and might not see each other for 50 years.


That's my thought as well. It was a combination of the requirements for some EXTREMELY standardized systems, relying on over-automated systems due to being developed by a hivemind, and a "it's good enough, we'll patch it later" attitude on a particulary vunerable system.
 
2012-09-11 02:09:23 PM  

LesserEvil: MagSeven: The alien's anitvirus auto-updated?

They were using McAfee, and the update still can't identify the virus.

In other news, article writers who need to make a deadline sometimes overthink "popcorn" movies in an effort to publish material on geek sites.

I would like to comment on something: Destroying 15 major cities would have far less impact on the human race than you might imagine. Far more infrastructure exists outside of those cities. Food production, industry, power plants... none of those are found major cities. Banks, lawyers, hipsters (lots of hipsters) live in cities, and I think we can all agree the world might even be a better place without all that.

Can anybody on Fark name something CRITICAL to the human race that might have been destroyed by these aliens in one of those 15 cities?

If anything, the Earth might benefit from the population reduction.


The aliens destroyed NORAD IIRC, where most of the President's cabinet had gone
 
2012-09-11 02:09:34 PM  

Honest Bender: [images1.wikia.nocookie.net image 513x747]

We did it. We defeated the invaders and left their ships in ruins.
Deep inside those ruins was a single stone that would change the course of our
history forever.
On the stone was etched a galactic map
and a single word more ancient than civilization itself:
Hiigara.
Our home.
The world was united and a massive colony ship was designed.
Construction would take 60 years.
It would demand new technologies, new industries and new sacrifices...


I played that game once in a lan party. I was unable to defeat my friends but , I did bog theirs systems down and lag them out by sending them hundreds of scout ships.
 
2012-09-11 02:12:16 PM  

Son of Thunder: dittybopper: Now, could one person accomplish that in 24 hours? Nope.

Life.. uh, um... life... uh... Finds A Way.


you'll be pleased to know that I read that in Jeff's voice.
 
2012-09-11 02:14:26 PM  

LesserEvil: liam76: You could argue that the world would be better wihtou all those things we find in a city, but the sudden removal of those would lead to a lot of problems for a few years. Financial ond central govt grinding to a halt could very easily lead to the breakdown of society.

That's what they want you to believe.

Seriously, though... I don't think it would be hard to re-establish central government. Politicians and bureaucrats are about the easiest people to replace.


I agree. The problem is what the military is going to do in the interim. What are communities that have no/little food going to do when it runs out?



As for financial centers, most banks decentralize their data; NYC HQ buildings are great for execs, but the meat of the banking business is in data centers in the heartland

Yeah, but see above. Without thos eexecs that money isn't goping anywhere.

/replace money with any other "good" that has a central hub in those cities.
 
2012-09-11 02:16:56 PM  

buntz: rickythepenguin: Randy Quaid, in his single prop biplane (was it a biplane?) was shown flying alongside F-16s or whatever.

They gave him a fighter jet for the end battle, not his prop plane. Because he missile locked up so he had to fly into the ship.

Unless there's another scene somewhere else I don't remember when he flies alongside the jets


If I remember correctly, the prop plane ending was an alternate scene that they actually filmed and created effects for. Quaid's character had a missile strapped to his crop duster for a suicide run.
 
2012-09-11 02:26:31 PM  

Rwa2play: The aliens destroyed NORAD IIRC, where most of the President's cabinet had gone


Sooo... a bunch of political appointees who rarely know anything about the departments they head are gone? What's the problem there? Some Director or Assistant Director would take over their agency.

Why do we place so much importance on individuals, particularly politicians?


liam76: As for financial centers, most banks decentralize their data; NYC HQ buildings are great for execs, but the meat of the banking business is in data centers in the heartland

Yeah, but see above. Without thos eexecs that money isn't goping anywhere.

/replace money with any other "good" that has a central hub in those cities.


Well, for starters, you aren't getting all of the execs in one shot, anyway. Many will be based in regional offices (and move up to take control of the company). It won't be smooth, sure, but there will be continuity. Likewise, while large capital monetary moves would be temporarily stymied, I doubt there would be much disruption to daily cash transfers through ATMs and such.... the data centers would be untouched, located in the middle of BFE as most are.

Remember, as a society, we've decentralized a lot of critical "virtual" infrastructure because we spent 40 years in a cold war, worrying about nuclear war destroying those same cities the aliens did in ID4. Cites are the great misidrection.... even military bases are supported by supply depots in the middle of nowhere. There have always been recovery plans for the possibility that all of our cities were wiped out, ID4-style.

Europe and Japan (and maybe India) would probably have the biggest loss from a tech perspective. The rest of the world, not so much.
 
2012-09-11 02:28:24 PM  
A lot of overthinking going on. It's just an Alien Invasion movie, with several nods to other films. Just using the Pal War Of The Worlds as an example: Squishy tentacle aliens, useless atomic/nuclear bombardment, done in by a "bug", making the initial contact a media event, which was in the original book. It's just a fun movie, and that's all.
 
2012-09-11 02:36:13 PM  
I hope the aliens have antivirus software installed this time.
 
2012-09-11 02:48:30 PM  

ukexpat: I hope the aliens have antivirus software installed this time.


Sure they do... they were surfing some tenticle porn and this popped up:

2.bp.blogspot.com


...so of course, they installed it. They should be all set now for the next attempt to invade Earf.
 
2012-09-11 03:49:41 PM  

dittybopper: Antimatter: robbiex0r: Did Will Smith and Jeff Goldblum not destroy the mothership with the nuclear warhead?

Given the size of the ship, and the yield of the warhead, it doesn't make sense that they could have.

Why not?

I mean, sure, if that's the only thing exploding. I find it hard to believe that with all the energy required to maintain the mothership, along with all the other stuff (including, presumably, a drive system capable of interstellar travel) that the explosion wouldn't be significantly larger than the yield of the weapon used alone would suggest.

Think about how much force a hand grenade has. Now, think about dropping one in the trunk of a car with a bunch of ammo in it and a full gas tank.


Your assuming any of that was stored anywhere near the troop/military staging area is. Given they weren't using any sort of conventional explosives in their ships, what's going to massively explode? the ship is a quarter the size of the moon, it's got to have a few trillion tons of metal in it, inducing who knows how many decks between where the nuke was and where the main reactors are.

I mean hell, lets look at what it could have fired. the only two, that I know of off hand, nuclear air to air missles used by the airforce are the .25 kiloton Falcon, and the 1.5 kiloton Genie. Neither could have taken out something that size unless they got extremely lucky. As it they somehow managed to take out the main reactors/ energy systems.

Of course, we then have the problem of trillions of tons of metal raining down upon the earth. That alone could have killed us all.
 
2012-09-11 03:50:58 PM  

madcan34: Besides the fact that the first one was a total piece O' shiat?


DONE
 
2012-09-11 03:56:19 PM  

JimmyFartpants: The sequel should start literally start 2 minutes where the last one left off.

You really think all of those aliens inside those huge ships where killed when they crashed?

Here's how ID2 starts: Will Smith and Bill Pullman light up those cigars all happy and victorious like. Then they hear a rumbling noise coming from the horizon. They look up only to see a massive alien hoard emerging from the downed spacecraft and charging toward them like the English army in Braveheart.

The cigar falls out of Will Smiths mouth, and we get a dolly-zoom on his face which looks like this:
[www.quietofthematinee.com image 620x268]


Dear god ... I want to see this.
 
2012-09-11 03:56:38 PM  

Disposable Rob: thecpt: Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: That in itself is a plot hole. The Roswell Crash was in 1948. The movie was set almost 50 years later. Plenty of time for the aliens to improve their computers. And then there's how "reverse engineered" is never as good as the original.

Maybe it was a standard platform that was designated to be left alone? You wouldn't want incompatible systems when you could be light years apart, and might not see each other for 50 years.

That's my thought as well. It was a combination of the requirements for some EXTREMELY standardized systems, relying on over-automated systems due to being developed by a hivemind, and a "it's good enough, we'll patch it later" attitude on a particulary vunerable system.


I'd also argue that it's quite difficult to advance you tech when your stuck on a spaceship with set systems, and no resources to do further R&D.
 
2012-09-11 04:04:30 PM  

NeoCortex42: Speaking of Dean Devlin movies, I want my Stargate sequel.


Rumor has it that Independence day was originally written as a sequel to Stargate.
 
2012-09-11 04:09:48 PM  

Antimatter: Your assuming any of that was stored anywhere near the troop/military staging area is. Given they weren't using any sort of conventional explosives in their ships, what's going to massively explode? the ship is a quarter the size of the moon, it's got to have a few trillion tons of metal in it, inducing who knows how many decks between where the nuke was and where the main reactors are.

I mean hell, lets look at what it could have fired. the only two, that I know of off hand, nuclear air to air missles used by the airforce are the .25 kiloton Falcon, and the 1.5 kiloton Genie. Neither could have taken out something that size unless they got extremely lucky. As it they somehow managed to take out the main reactors/ energy systems.


Neither missile was in evidence. For all we know, given it's size, it could have been a 500 kt warhead slapped on to a rocket motor, ginned up at the last minute.

Plus, we don't know what sort of energy systems they use, what sort of flammables might be on the mother ship, and I would assume that any thing that big would require an enormous energy source. For all we know, they detonated that right below the main deuterium storage tanks. Or perhaps the initial explosion shut off power to the magnetic confinement system of their fusion reactor(s). Who knows?

Of course, we then have the problem of trillions of tons of metal raining down upon the earth. That alone could have killed us all.


Probably. Certainly it wouldn't have been good. Probably also be a lot of fallout.
 
2012-09-11 04:18:51 PM  

robohobo: I'm now reminded of the Worldwar/Colonization/Homeward Bound series. Though by HB it was getting pretty shiatty. It was still awesome to see Earf drop down on Home to swing our collective dick in the Race's face.

/time for a re-read...a long, often repetitive re-read


Yeah, what was up with the whole Columbo-lizard sub-plot?
 
2012-09-11 04:26:43 PM  

Coelacanth: The sequel is pretty straightforward: Invader colony ships start to arrive and we have to fight them off. The subplot is not so straightforward: Do we have the right to exterminate a species that deserves to be exterminated? Then to complicate things, an assassin species that the invaders have ticked off decide it's their right to exterminate them. So do we protect the few remaining Invaders or quietly cheer on the assassins?


Cheer and offer to hold the assassin's coat while he does the killing.
 
2012-09-11 04:37:48 PM  

Zarquon's Flat Tire: sprag: OtherLittleGuy: ID4

What the hell does that "abbreviation" mean, anyway? People kept trying to explain that it was "independence day" and that's on July 4, so it "makes sense", but I've never been really satisfied with that answer (because it _doesn't_ make any more sense than calling Groundhog Day "GD2" and that's patently stupid)

It's catchier than just ID. It's all just marketing. It makes sense because it makes money.


So would the sequel be ID4-2? ID5?
 
2012-09-11 04:40:46 PM  

dittybopper: Antimatter: Your assuming any of that was stored anywhere near the troop/military staging area is. Given they weren't using any sort of conventional explosives in their ships, what's going to massively explode? the ship is a quarter the size of the moon, it's got to have a few trillion tons of metal in it, inducing who knows how many decks between where the nuke was and where the main reactors are.

I mean hell, lets look at what it could have fired. the only two, that I know of off hand, nuclear air to air missles used by the airforce are the .25 kiloton Falcon, and the 1.5 kiloton Genie. Neither could have taken out something that size unless they got extremely lucky. As it they somehow managed to take out the main reactors/ energy systems.

Neither missile was in evidence. For all we know, given it's size, it could have been a 500 kt warhead slapped on to a rocket motor, ginned up at the last minute.

Plus, we don't know what sort of energy systems they use, what sort of flammables might be on the mother ship, and I would assume that any thing that big would require an enormous energy source. For all we know, they detonated that right below the main deuterium storage tanks. Or perhaps the initial explosion shut off power to the magnetic confinement system of their fusion reactor(s). Who knows?

Of course, we then have the problem of trillions of tons of metal raining down upon the earth. That alone could have killed us all.

Probably. Certainly it wouldn't have been good. Probably also be a lot of fallout.


A fusion reactor doesn't explode with much force - they only work when in containment. Once containment fails they stop making power. I remember reading somewhere that a gigwatt reactor in worst case scenario would explode with the force of a stick of dynamite. As soon as confinement starts to break down they stop creating excess heat and reactions would've stopped long before the confinement fields decayed to the point that the plasma can touch the containment walls. That's why they're the wonder technology of our day - able to produce lots of power and be extremely safe in case of failure. We even have most of the mass in our solar system tied up in a fusion reactor and it's naturally stable enough to allow life to evolve over 4 billion years in front of it.

I think it's more plausible that they were using antimatter and the nuke detonating on the bridge of the ship could've caused a loss of containment of that. That could generate an explosion big enough to destroy the ship if you had several thousand tons of antimatter suddenly released.

Either way an object 1/4 the size of the moon, and assuming a mostly empty structure where only 1% of the volume is mass, we can assume that it's mass equals to about .0025% of the mass of the moon, which itself is 7.35x10^22 kg. I could be butchering the numbers since I'm doing this quickly at work, but that gives us an object falling to earth with orbital velocity and bigger than anything the Earf's seen since the heavy bombardment period. An object going 16,000 MPH and big enough to hit the surface while still standing hundreds of miles out into space and weighs 91,875,000,000,000,000 tons . The aliens are the least of our worries.
 
2012-09-11 04:42:22 PM  

robohobo: I'm now reminded of the Worldwar/Colonization/Homeward Bound series. Though by HB it was getting pretty shiatty. It was still awesome to see Earf drop down on Home to swing our collective dick in the Race's face.

/time for a re-read...a long, often repetitive re-read


You just described most of Turtledove's series. The man has to not only make a point, but make it a minimum of 3 times per book, in every book of the series. Yes, we get it, in a world where the USA and CSA are at war with each other a lot, US tobacco sucks. Got it. Dudes with pale skin get sunburn. Understood. If he didn't constantly repeat himself, he could write the series in about a third of the time.
 
2012-09-11 04:45:18 PM  

dittybopper: Antimatter: Your assuming any of that was stored anywhere near the troop/military staging area is. Given they weren't using any sort of conventional explosives in their ships, what's going to massively explode? the ship is a quarter the size of the moon, it's got to have a few trillion tons of metal in it, inducing who knows how many decks between where the nuke was and where the main reactors are.

I mean hell, lets look at what it could have fired. the only two, that I know of off hand, nuclear air to air missles used by the airforce are the .25 kiloton Falcon, and the 1.5 kiloton Genie. Neither could have taken out something that size unless they got extremely lucky. As it they somehow managed to take out the main reactors/ energy systems.

Neither missile was in evidence. For all we know, given it's size, it could have been a 500 kt warhead slapped on to a rocket motor, ginned up at the last minute.

Plus, we don't know what sort of energy systems they use, what sort of flammables might be on the mother ship, and I would assume that any thing that big would require an enormous energy source. For all we know, they detonated that right below the main deuterium storage tanks. Or perhaps the initial explosion shut off power to the magnetic confinement system of their fusion reactor(s). Who knows?

Of course, we then have the problem of trillions of tons of metal raining down upon the earth. That alone could have killed us all.

Probably. Certainly it wouldn't have been good. Probably also be a lot of fallout.


I'm going with the producers and writers had no idea what the yield of your average nuke is, and never considered the size of the ship or what would happen if you detonated a bomb in it. It was a plot device.
 
2012-09-11 04:49:06 PM  

SuperChuck: Zarquon's Flat Tire: sprag: OtherLittleGuy: ID4

What the hell does that "abbreviation" mean, anyway? People kept trying to explain that it was "independence day" and that's on July 4, so it "makes sense", but I've never been really satisfied with that answer (because it _doesn't_ make any more sense than calling Groundhog Day "GD2" and that's patently stupid)

It's catchier than just ID. It's all just marketing. It makes sense because it makes money.

So would the sequel be ID4-2? ID5?


Earf2
 
2012-09-11 04:49:34 PM  

ThreadSinger: I enjoyed this movie when it came out, but alas my science background has deepened considerably since then, and I have a hard time suspending the disbelief that when an object one quarter the size of the moon detonates in near-Earth orbit, much of the surface will remain undamaged..


I always wondered about that too... there should be huge football stadium sized chunks of metal raining down on the earth (earf) for several days after the explosion of the mothership, taking out whole chunks of cities, causing tsunamis, and making the world's population a whole lot smaller overall.

On the other hand, the descendants of the 2 - 3 billion or so people left will enjoy an unprecedented age of science and technology, seeing as the smaller ships were pretty much evenly distributed around the planet. Every continent will have access to the goodies. Starships, anti-gravity (we finally get our flying cars), new metals and alloys, energy sources powerful enough to push ships through space (no more fossil fuels)... and almost every religion on earf being proven full of sh*t.

We'd have our own solar system colonized in less than 100 years, nearby stars in double that. And as a side effect, maybe we'd stop fighting each other so goddamn much now that we realize there are plenty of other species out there who will not hesitate to kick our ass.
 
2012-09-11 04:58:16 PM  
Has anyone noticed that there are tiny, random splotches in the background image on all of Den of Geek's pages?
 
2012-09-11 05:02:47 PM  
A few things I thought of concerning an ID sequel:

1. Toxic and radioactive materials from the spaceships. A several mile long spacecraft probably doesn't run on clean energy, and the burning materials might have some other crap not healthy for human (or aliens).

2. Because of its proximity to the finale (and lack of it to other possible surviving cities) the world economy being devastated, its travel know-how and a large amount of huge, empty buildings, Las Vegas would probably be the new US capital and UN headquarters. With all its kitsch to old, long-gone places like Paris, Rome, NY and Cairo, probably fitting. (BTW, ever notice there's no casino that has a D.C. motif?)

3. Just how did the folks in Africa (or wherever the jungle scene was) bring down that ship? Not exactly a plethora of jet aircraft on the continent if you knock around Egypt and South Africa. SCUD? Don't think the average RPG-7 or technical with an AA gun has the range or power to hit that energy gun in the middle of the ship.

4. Alien survivor resistance. Barring a ship withdrawing from human contact (floating over the middle of the oceans or Antarctica) they likely don't have food and supplies for a long entrenched fight. Also diseases become a factor; the main ship might have offered labs or medical facilities to deal with such problems.

5. Co-operation. The EU, Israelis, Japanese, Chinese and Russians may know that the US did have alien tech for decades. Might be a point of contention. Also, if a developing third world country (one with a decent amount of brains -- Pakistan or India, a former Soviet republic, Brazil, Saudi Arabia, Iran) came into a treasure trove of working alien tech, would they share it, use it to take advantage of neighbors or the surviving populace at large?
 
2012-09-11 05:06:44 PM  

Antimatter: robbiex0r: Did Will Smith and Jeff Goldblum not destroy the mothership with the nuclear warhead?

Given the size of the ship, and the yield of the warhead, it doesn't make sense that they could have.


Y'r fergettin that the nuke was asploded inside a closed space, nearly at the center.
T'would do a lot more damage than if it were asploded from outside...
 
2012-09-11 05:10:38 PM  

Zarquon's Flat Tire: SuperChuck: Zarquon's Flat Tire: sprag: OtherLittleGuy: ID4

What the hell does that "abbreviation" mean, anyway? People kept trying to explain that it was "independence day" and that's on July 4, so it "makes sense", but I've never been really satisfied with that answer (because it _doesn't_ make any more sense than calling Groundhog Day "GD2" and that's patently stupid)

It's catchier than just ID. It's all just marketing. It makes sense because it makes money.

So would the sequel be ID4-2? ID5?

Earf2


Only if they get Tim Curry.
 
2012-09-11 05:17:14 PM  

rewind2846: Antimatter: robbiex0r: Did Will Smith and Jeff Goldblum not destroy the mothership with the nuclear warhead?

Given the size of the ship, and the yield of the warhead, it doesn't make sense that they could have.

Y'r fergettin that the nuke was asploded inside a closed space, nearly at the center.
T'would do a lot more damage than if it were asploded from outside...


A weapon that size on an object one quarter of the size of the moon would do nothing at all.

A weapon that size detonating in the centre of a spaceship one quarter the size of the moon, powered by (presumably) a highly volatile energy source which just lost containment, well, that just might do something...

/I know, I know, it's a movie, still fun to nitpick though
//Also, why would you need fighters in an era of FTL communications?
///Earth is still farked
 
2012-09-11 05:20:10 PM  

Twigz221: The biggest complaint about the original was that the virus worked on the alien computers. This is commonly called one of the biggest plot holes. I agreed until I saw the deleted scene where Bren Spiners character explains to Jeff Goldblum that we only have computers thanks to the roswell crash. We reverse engineered all of our systems from the ships computer. So it would make sense that there would be come compatibility.

That's a rather important point. Why the hell did they delete it from the final cut?


Because it was stupid and ahistorical!?
 
2012-09-11 05:29:25 PM  

unchellmatt: Interesting that they leave out one major plot issue with the FIRST one: There's zero reason for the big bad aliens to attack the Earth for the reasons given. There is, readily available, far more of the very resources the aliens were after, ripe for the plucking with no messy need for invasion, even before you reach Jupiter. And we're talking about several Earth's worth of water, oxygen, minerals, etc, just sitting out there.


This right here.

And why bother with an invasion when you could just gas the whole planet? Or simply sit in orbit and throw big rocks at us? 

Alien invasion movies are almost always inherently silly.
 
2012-09-11 05:30:36 PM  
Here's an idea -

Turn the sequel into an adaptation of Greg Bear's Anvil of Stars
 
2012-09-11 05:31:30 PM  

SuperChuck: Zarquon's Flat Tire: sprag: OtherLittleGuy: ID4

What the hell does that "abbreviation" mean, anyway? People kept trying to explain that it was "independence day" and that's on July 4, so it "makes sense", but I've never been really satisfied with that answer (because it _doesn't_ make any more sense than calling Groundhog Day "GD2" and that's patently stupid)

It's catchier than just ID. It's all just marketing. It makes sense because it makes money.

So would the sequel be ID4-2? ID5?


Labor Day
 
2012-09-11 05:41:32 PM  

rewind2846: and almost every religion on earf being proven full of sh*t.


Hinduism and Islam would be fine (probably Buddhism too).

"Allah, Lord of the Worlds"
 
2012-09-11 06:26:50 PM  
Given the nature of ID4 as a big explosion blockbuster, it seems unlikely a gritty small scale guerrilla war cleaning up the remaining aliens would work (and plus it is probably too late for any close continuity with all the actors aging in the interim). You could maybe do this as a TV series - something similar to the 90s? era "War of the Worlds", but difficult to see it as a film sequel in this mode.

You could see a second wave of aliens coming a couple of decades later - it seems evolutionary unlikely the aliens would all go in one ship - sooner or later they would hit a problem planet and then you have extinction, more likely at each planet they create one or more extra "swarms" of similar motherships, with earth technology having jumped forwards but not enough to protect earth until Jeff Goldblum suddenly comes up with the brilliant idea of installing OS X on the alien hardware, and suddenly the aliens surrender rather than go up against Apple, Inc.

The problem with this variant is it is hard to see how it won't all just be retreading the same territory - given the first film nearly destroys the world, and blows up every major global iconic building, there is little scope for one-upping the previous film, and the aliens were fairly one dimensional so there doesn't seem an easy route to make them come back as a different sort of threat - and if you did, it would seem better to have a new film instead of a sequel.

You could go further into the future and have humans as a interstellar travelling civilization that re-encounters these aliens, but it just seems limiting - the amount of carry over from the first film is barely going to be anything, but it presumably ties down the opposing aliens, so again why not do a completely new film with a similar story?
 
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