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(Den Of Geek)   The plot problems facing an Independence Day sequel   (denofgeek.com ) divider line
    More: Interesting, Independence Days, Independence Day sequels, Roland Emmerich, Bill Pullman, resistance group, Jeff Goldblum, alien invasion, sequels  
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18192 clicks; posted to Geek » on 11 Sep 2012 at 10:36 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-11 12:13:25 PM  

dittybopper: buntz: You know, just by killing the boss and blowing up his headquarters doesn't end the war

Actually, sometimes it does. I can think of numerous examples from history.


Yeah, when John Wilkes Booth scored that head shot on Hitler it ended WW1
 
2012-09-11 12:13:33 PM  

dittybopper: buntz: You know, just by killing the boss and blowing up his headquarters doesn't end the war

Actually, sometimes it does. I can think of numerous examples from history.


It works when you have a nation state willing to give up and order its forces to surrender. Not so effective when you are facing an enemy with nothing to lose and no rules governor what's acceptable in war. Once cannot describe how incredibly brutal a conflict like this would be in real life.
 
2012-09-11 12:14:36 PM  

rickythepenguin: That first lady chick, man she was fuggen HOTTTTTTTTTT in an east coast WASPy way. total DSLs.


wait. not her. the chef of staff or whatever. the first lady dies.

th eone that jeff goldbulm marries at the end.
 
2012-09-11 12:18:18 PM  

robbiex0r: Did Will Smith and Jeff Goldblum not destroy the mothership with the nuclear warhead?


Given the size of the ship, and the yield of the warhead, it doesn't make sense that they could have.
 
2012-09-11 12:18:57 PM  
And since it's an Independence Day thread, I need to repeat my BIGGEST gripe with the film:

Randy Quaid is all drunk and stupid because he claims to have been abducted. Everyone laughs at him. Even his children!

Then they get invaded by aliens!!!!

So he says "I'll fly a jet, because I'm looking for some payback from when they abducted me"

And everyone laughs and rolls their eyes at him!!

Why??? He claims to be abducted and now they're being attacked BY ALIENS!

They all owe him an apology!!!
 
2012-09-11 12:20:22 PM  
images1.wikia.nocookie.net

We did it. We defeated the invaders and left their ships in ruins.
Deep inside those ruins was a single stone that would change the course of our
history forever.
On the stone was etched a galactic map
and a single word more ancient than civilization itself:
Hiigara.
Our home.
The world was united and a massive colony ship was designed.
Construction would take 60 years.
It would demand new technologies, new industries and new sacrifices...
 
2012-09-11 12:20:25 PM  

way south: /The one thing that earth has which you cant find elsewhere is a large slave labor population.


Except that it's reasonable to assume that any alien race that is technologically advanced enough to get here in the first place would also be fully capable of building a robotic labor force which would be able to outperform human beings in every way.
 
2012-09-11 12:21:05 PM  
No one noticed the writer spelled Deanna's last name wrong?
 
2012-09-11 12:21:54 PM  

buntz: And since it's an Independence Day thread, I need to repeat my BIGGEST gripe with the film:

Randy Quaid is all drunk and stupid because he claims to have been abducted. Everyone laughs at him. Even his children!

Then they get invaded by aliens!!!!

So he says "I'll fly a jet, because I'm looking for some payback from when they abducted me"

And everyone laughs and rolls their eyes at him!!

Why??? He claims to be abducted and now they're being attacked BY ALIENS!

They all owe him an apology!!!


Because SCIENCE scoffs at such an idea. Blame Neil Degrasse Tyson.

/seriously, when we get invaded, dude needs a kick in the balls
 
2012-09-11 12:22:34 PM  
We should argue about the virus thing!

I'll be the mommy.
 
2012-09-11 12:23:37 PM  

Quaker: way south: /The one thing that earth has which you cant find elsewhere is a large slave labor population.

Except that it's reasonable to assume that any alien race that is technologically advanced enough to get here in the first place would also be fully capable of building a robotic labor force which would be able to outperform human beings in every way.


But it's more fun to make people do it. For the drama.

/and the kicks
 
2012-09-11 12:24:18 PM  

buntz: And since it's an Independence Day thread, I need to repeat my BIGGEST gripe with the film:

Randy Quaid



when i first got a DVD player, this was one of the first movies I watched with direcotr's commentary. I remember the director saying that one of the more consistent criticisms was from aviators, who were upset that Randy Quaid, in his single prop biplane (was it a biplane?) was shown flying alongside F-16s or whatever. The aviation community was butthurt because the top speed of Quaid's plane was, whatever, 180MPH but the cruising speed of the fighter jet was like, 300MPH (or whatever) and thus ZOMG THIS IS FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE I HATE THIS MOVIE FAAAAAAAAAAAAKE.

fanbois.
 
2012-09-11 12:27:43 PM  

Antimatter: robbiex0r: Did Will Smith and Jeff Goldblum not destroy the mothership with the nuclear warhead?

Given the size of the ship, and the yield of the warhead, it doesn't make sense that they could have.


I guess I always thought it was a "blowing up the Death Star with a small missile" type chain reaction thing.
 
2012-09-11 12:30:11 PM  

robohobo: Quaker: way south: /The one thing that earth has which you cant find elsewhere is a large slave labor population.

Except that it's reasonable to assume that any alien race that is technologically advanced enough to get here in the first place would also be fully capable of building a robotic labor force which would be able to outperform human beings in every way.

But it's more fun to make people do it. For the drama.

/and the kicks


Also, you have to buy the robots.
Humans are free for the taking.


I think the plot can be stupidly simple.
Id4-1, Aliens invade from space. We blow up the mothership.
Id4-2, some aliens landed. Take humans as slaves. We fight a ground war, blow up the base.
Id4-3 (you know it's inevitable) we take the fight to the aliens. Will Smith is the farking president.
 
2012-09-11 12:30:25 PM  

rickythepenguin: buntz: And since it's an Independence Day thread, I need to repeat my BIGGEST gripe with the film:

Randy Quaid


when i first got a DVD player, this was one of the first movies I watched with direcotr's commentary. I remember the director saying that one of the more consistent criticisms was from aviators, who were upset that Randy Quaid, in his single prop biplane (was it a biplane?) was shown flying alongside F-16s or whatever. The aviation community was butthurt because the top speed of Quaid's plane was, whatever, 180MPH but the cruising speed of the fighter jet was like, 300MPH (or whatever) and thus ZOMG THIS IS FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE I HATE THIS MOVIE FAAAAAAAAAAAAKE.

fanbois.


I assumed he compensated for the differential with large quantities of methamphetamine.
 
2012-09-11 12:32:00 PM  

rickythepenguin: Randy Quaid, in his single prop biplane (was it a biplane?) was shown flying alongside F-16s or whatever.


They gave him a fighter jet for the end battle, not his prop plane. Because he missile locked up so he had to fly into the ship.

Unless there's another scene somewhere else I don't remember when he flies alongside the jets
 
2012-09-11 12:34:05 PM  

MagSeven: rickythepenguin: buntz: And since it's an Independence Day thread, I need to repeat my BIGGEST gripe with the film:

Randy Quaid


when i first got a DVD player, this was one of the first movies I watched with direcotr's commentary. I remember the director saying that one of the more consistent criticisms was from aviators, who were upset that Randy Quaid, in his single prop biplane (was it a biplane?) was shown flying alongside F-16s or whatever. The aviation community was butthurt because the top speed of Quaid's plane was, whatever, 180MPH but the cruising speed of the fighter jet was like, 300MPH (or whatever) and thus ZOMG THIS IS FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE I HATE THIS MOVIE FAAAAAAAAAAAAKE.

fanbois.

I assumed he compensated for the differential with large quantities of methamphetamine.


I assumed he was trying to get away from his taxes.
 
2012-09-11 12:36:46 PM  
www.movievillains.com

still waiting for his sequel
 
2012-09-11 12:39:53 PM  
Seriously? Why does every movie in existence suddenly need a sequel? Just let it go. This was a good movie ON ITS OWN. That's it, end of story. Come up with a new, fresh idea, or if you are going to come up with a recycled idea (Like Independence Day actually was), find a way to make it fun. Just don't do yet another sequel, especially since it's been this farking long. You're losing everything cultural that made the movie work at the time. It fit into a nice niche, and wouldn't really fly today anyway. Don't fark it up with a sequel, I beg of you.
 
2012-09-11 12:41:19 PM  

buntz: Unless there's another scene somewhere else I don't remember when he flies alongside the jets



i don't remember either but i do recall the director saying people were upset about that part.

i do somewhat recall a scene in the final battle where the Earthlings send up all manner of aircraft to fight the aliens. bleh. who cares.
 
2012-09-11 12:43:50 PM  

Antimatter: dittybopper: buntz: You know, just by killing the boss and blowing up his headquarters doesn't end the war

Actually, sometimes it does. I can think of numerous examples from history.

It works when you have a nation state willing to give up and order its forces to surrender. Not so effective when you are facing an enemy with nothing to lose and no rules governor what's acceptable in war. Once cannot describe how incredibly brutal a conflict like this would be in real life.


Who has nothing to lose in Star Wars? The Empire was held together strictly by force of will of Palpatine. It's the stormtroopers who have much to lose. They have no one to give them orders anymore: The Senate is (presumably) still dissolved from ANH, their boss is dead, and so is his presumed second-in-command.

What do the Imperial forces have to gain by continuing the fight? Especially since a democratic form of government could be rolled back into place on the model of the old republic that was only dissolved within living memory, at most 25 years earlier, perhaps with more protections against giving the executive too much power.
 
2012-09-11 12:44:47 PM  
This guy would be most likely to figure out a story line for the sequel:

sheldoncooper.net
 
2012-09-11 12:45:55 PM  

MagSeven: on Mahs.


+1
 
2012-09-11 12:47:36 PM  
I'm now reminded of the Worldwar/Colonization/Homeward Bound series. Though by HB it was getting pretty shiatty. It was still awesome to see Earf drop down on Home to swing our collective dick in the Race's face.

/time for a re-read...a long, often repetitive re-read
 
2012-09-11 12:48:01 PM  

dittybopper: What do the Imperial forces have to gain by continuing the fight?


I don't know. I just wanted to feel like a big man by asking the question.

/thanks for blowing out my candle just to make yours brighter, jerk
 
2012-09-11 12:48:02 PM  

dittybopper: Who has nothing to lose in Star Wars?


I thought he was referring to Bin Laden and that whole Afghanistan clusterfark....
 
2012-09-11 12:49:25 PM  

Grither: dittybopper: Who has nothing to lose in Star Wars?

I thought he was referring to Bin Laden and that whole Afghanistan clusterfark....


Mahs would be more NY/Jew....Mers would be more of a Will Smif pronunciation..
 
2012-09-11 12:50:11 PM  

way south: robohobo: Quaker: way south: /The one thing that earth has which you cant find elsewhere is a large slave labor population.

Except that it's reasonable to assume that any alien race that is technologically advanced enough to get here in the first place would also be fully capable of building a robotic labor force which would be able to outperform human beings in every way.

But it's more fun to make people do it. For the drama.

/and the kicks

Also, you have to buy the robots.
Humans are free for the taking.


There would be an inherent cost in that the aliens would have to come to Earth, conquer humanity, and then maintain a presence to keep us working. Considering how much more efficient robots would be at labor in the first place (stronger, faster, smarter, more trustworthy, no need for extended rest periods, etc.), the cost-benefit analysis would still make a robot labor force a much more practical option.
 
2012-09-11 12:50:57 PM  
The only good part about that movie.

playwithgender.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-09-11 12:53:33 PM  
Go the Major League route and have the sequel just be a remake of the first film with Omar Epps in the Will Smith role.
 
2012-09-11 12:54:09 PM  

Twigz221: The biggest complaint about the original was that the virus worked on the alien computers. This is commonly called one of the biggest plot holes. I agreed until I saw the deleted scene where Bren Spiners character explains to Jeff Goldblum that we only have computers thanks to the roswell crash. We reverse engineered all of our systems from the ships computer. So it would make sense that there would be come compatibility.

That's a rather important point. Why the hell did they delete it from the final cut?


Wouldn't matter, the aliens hijacked our satellites to use for their invasion timing (Why they would do that is another issue. It would be like sending an invasion force back to Roman days to attack a city with modern weapons and deciding to use their sundials rather than syncronizing your high tech watches) Therefore the aliens worked out the compatibility issue for Goldblum. And being a telepathic race information security would have been an alien concept so thats why a virus would work so well.

Presumably that oversite would be rectified in the new fleet making II a slaughter.

More importantly though these ships entering earths atmosphere should've destroyed the environment. The fact that it didnt would have to mean these ships had technology to cancel out their physical effects. When Smith and Goldblum brought them down they didn't save the planet like they think, they just killed it in a different way and at least denied it to our invaders.
 
2012-09-11 12:56:10 PM  
As really shiatty a movie as it is, it could go down as one of the greats as long as they *never* make the sequel that involves more aliens and shiat blowing up.

Here's a much better idea: Why not do a limited TV series on how humanity coped with rebuilding?
 
2012-09-11 12:56:58 PM  

Antimatter: robbiex0r: Did Will Smith and Jeff Goldblum not destroy the mothership with the nuclear warhead?

Given the size of the ship, and the yield of the warhead, it doesn't make sense that they could have.


Why not?

I mean, sure, if that's the only thing exploding. I find it hard to believe that with all the energy required to maintain the mothership, along with all the other stuff (including, presumably, a drive system capable of interstellar travel) that the explosion wouldn't be significantly larger than the yield of the weapon used alone would suggest.

Think about how much force a hand grenade has. Now, think about dropping one in the trunk of a car with a bunch of ammo in it and a full gas tank.
 
2012-09-11 12:59:42 PM  

buntz: dittybopper: What do the Imperial forces have to gain by continuing the fight?

I don't know. I just wanted to feel like a big man by asking the question.

/thanks for blowing out my candle just to make yours brighter, jerk


Oh, it was my pleasure.
 
2012-09-11 12:59:46 PM  

rickythepenguin: buntz: Unless there's another scene somewhere else I don't remember when he flies alongside the jets


i don't remember either but i do recall the director saying people were upset about that part.

i do somewhat recall a scene in the final battle where the Earthlings send up all manner of aircraft to fight the aliens. bleh. who cares.


I believe it was a changed scene. I've seen on some TV show a clip of the original ending, which has Quaid back in his crop-duster for the final moments of the battle. Not sure how he ends up in it, but he does.
 
2012-09-11 01:04:54 PM  
Here's an idea for a sequel. One of the saucers crashes relatively unscathed, and Earth spends the next 20-50 years studying it, learning its technology, implementing it in our fighter jets, and getting it to work again... an entire city builds around the wreck in the process.

On the day they turn it back on, it signals them to come back, this time with their more humanlike overlords in tow. War breaks out again, a vapid pop star gets kidnapped, and the ship leaves with the city population to distract the invasion until Earth's ready to retaliate.

Put in a few tragedies, a young hotshot pilot, a cross-species love affair... you got a trilogy on your hands...

/too obscure?
 
2012-09-11 01:05:37 PM  

Quaker: way south: robohobo: Quaker: way south: /The one thing that earth has which you cant find elsewhere is a large slave labor population.

Except that it's reasonable to assume that any alien race that is technologically advanced enough to get here in the first place would also be fully capable of building a robotic labor force which would be able to outperform human beings in every way.

But it's more fun to make people do it. For the drama.

/and the kicks

Also, you have to buy the robots.
Humans are free for the taking.

There would be an inherent cost in that the aliens would have to come to Earth, conquer humanity, and then maintain a presence to keep us working. Considering how much more efficient robots would be at labor in the first place (stronger, faster, smarter, more trustworthy, no need for extended rest periods, etc.), the cost-benefit analysis would still make a robot labor force a much more practical option.


You're assuming the aliens have a vested interest in keeping humans alive. They may take joy in just working us to death. A ' just for the lulz' situation. Don't think black slavery, where there was aan incentive to keep them ambulatory, just think 'disposable toy slavery'. If I have 4 or 5 billion whores, it's okay if I break double handfuls of them, cause hey, it's just for kicks. Also their telepathy, easy to control most folk.
 
2012-09-11 01:05:41 PM  

Quaker: way south: robohobo: Quaker: way south: /The one thing that earth has which you cant find elsewhere is a large slave labor population.

Except that it's reasonable to assume that any alien race that is technologically advanced enough to get here in the first place would also be fully capable of building a robotic labor force which would be able to outperform human beings in every way.

But it's more fun to make people do it. For the drama.

/and the kicks

Also, you have to buy the robots.
Humans are free for the taking.

There would be an inherent cost in that the aliens would have to come to Earth, conquer humanity, and then maintain a presence to keep us working. Considering how much more efficient robots would be at labor in the first place (stronger, faster, smarter, more trustworthy, no need for extended rest periods, etc.), the cost-benefit analysis would still make a robot labor force a much more practical option.


let's assume that they already decided to come to the solar system. The cost difference between coming to earth or an outer moon is negligible.
The humans, if easily controlled (and they did demonstrate that they could control us, somewhat) are free and reliable native labor. the atmosphere provides a shirtsleeve working environment, and we already have mining equipment that we made for our own needs.

Pit this against the cost of alien laborers, alien robots, alien space suits and dealing with alien unions.
You've got many good reasons for choosing earth. Especially if the invasion itself is a cakewalk.
 
2012-09-11 01:10:56 PM  
"Alternatively, poorer nations that had been largely ignored by the aliens during the initial extermination phase might rise up to seize their opportunity in the post-apocalyptic nightmare. Western nations, on their knees, are in thrall to them because their infrastructure no longer exists. World order changes totally. Unity should have been the result, but instead the people of Earth are even more fractured than they were before."

media.moddb.com

No, peace through Brotherhood
 
2012-09-11 01:11:51 PM  

Eirik: rickythepenguin: buntz: Unless there's another scene somewhere else I don't remember when he flies alongside the jets


i don't remember either but i do recall the director saying people were upset about that part.

i do somewhat recall a scene in the final battle where the Earthlings send up all manner of aircraft to fight the aliens. bleh. who cares.

I believe it was a changed scene. I've seen on some TV show a clip of the original ending, which has Quaid back in his crop-duster for the final moments of the battle. Not sure how he ends up in it, but he does.


The original version of the script had a ragtag band of planes and pilots, including Quaid in his crop duster saving the world. They filmed it that way and test audiences blasted it so hard they reshot it to put Quaid in a fighter jet. Some of the DVD releases included the discarded crop duster scenes as extras.
 
2012-09-11 01:14:03 PM  

Digitalstrange: The original version of the script had a ragtag band of planes and pilots, including Quaid in his crop duster saving the world. They filmed it that way and test audiences blasted it so hard they reshot it to put Quaid in a fighter jet. Some of the DVD releases included the discarded crop duster scenes as extras


Being thoroughly satisfied with ID4, I still want the option to see that movie.
 
2012-09-11 01:14:24 PM  

way south: Id4-3 (you know it's inevitable) we take the fight to the aliens. Will Smith is farking the president.


Change the order of two words and it's a very different movie.
 
2012-09-11 01:14:42 PM  
On the bright side, a sequel would have a reasonable chance of being better than the original (cuz it was terrible).
 
2012-09-11 01:15:42 PM  
Seems to me they are fresh out of alcoholic crop dusting pilots.
 
2012-09-11 01:16:49 PM  
The biggest problem with this movie(which is a guilty pleasure, as it is for most who like it) is the god-awful special effects. Most of that shiat holds up worse than Plan 9, especially on a flatsie.
 
2012-09-11 01:17:09 PM  
The sequel is pretty straightforward: Invader colony ships start to arrive and we have to fight them off. The subplot is not so straightforward: Do we have the right to exterminate a species that deserves to be exterminated? Then to complicate things, an assassin species that the invaders have ticked off decide it's their right to exterminate them. So do we protect the few remaining Invaders or quietly cheer on the assassins?
 
2012-09-11 01:17:54 PM  

padraig: loonatic112358: FirstNationalBastard: Well, first, wouldn't the people of Earf already be prepared for another invasion?

Not so much, if there was a second wave closely follwing the first, the earf would be easier to take down

Am I the only to remember them saying at one point, that the whole alien population just jumped from planet to planet, and therefore were all here ? Or am I mistaking it with an other movie ?


Yes, any sequel would either have to be about dealing with the remaining survivors of the fleet (possibly with some minor assistance from scout ships like the ones that kept up with Earth that would now be scouting the next target) or rewrite what was understood in the first film. This Fleet was supposed to be their entire race.
 
2012-09-11 01:19:33 PM  

Coelacanth: : Do we have the right to exterminate a species that deserves to be exterminated? Then to complicate things, an assassin species that the invaders have ticked off decide it's their right to exterminate them. So do we protect the few remaining Invaders or quietly cheer on the assassins?


Of course we do. They threw the first punch. And if someone can lampshade them better than us, more power to them. Us or them, it's pretty simple. No quietly cheering on, we flat out help the fark out of them. And then take out them too, steal their tech. It's a cold universe, out there.
 
2012-09-11 01:19:57 PM  

robohobo: MagSeven: I just pretend that District 9 is the sequel. Just like I pretend the Terminator movies are a prequel to The Matrix.

I've long thought that the Terminator films were Matrix prequels.

/poor sarah connor. no way cancer beat her. she'd beat cancer with a farking handgun


and Red Dawn is a sequel to Dirty Dancing
 
2012-09-11 01:24:47 PM  

Coelacanth: Do we have the right to exterminate a species that deserves to be exterminated? Then to complicate things, an assassin species that the invaders have ticked off decide it's their right to exterminate them. So do we protect the few remaining Invaders or quietly cheer on the assassins?


Who is to judge what is right and what is wrong? Great and powerful foes surround us; unknown miscreants gnaw at us from within. We are threatened with total annihilation. In days such as these we can afford no luxury of morality.

Some may question your right to destroy ten billion people. But those who understand realise that you have no right to let them live.
 
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