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(Den Of Geek)   The plot problems facing an Independence Day sequel   (denofgeek.com) divider line 233
    More: Interesting, Independence Days, Independence Day sequels, Roland Emmerich, Bill Pullman, resistance group, Jeff Goldblum, alien invasion, sequels  
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18124 clicks; posted to Geek » on 11 Sep 2012 at 10:36 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-11 09:49:16 AM
Well, first, wouldn't the people of Earf already be prepared for another invasion?
 
2012-09-11 10:38:17 AM
DRFTA, but I'm guessing the entire, lengthy list is something like:

1. It was a closed story, and writers have nowhere to go with it.

End of list.
 
2012-09-11 10:41:03 AM
That article officially thought more about consequnces of the plot than Dean Devlin ever did.
 
2012-09-11 10:41:14 AM

FirstNationalBastard: Well, first, wouldn't the people of Earf already be prepared for another invasion?


Not so much, if there was a second wave closely follwing the first, the earf would be easier to take down
 
2012-09-11 10:41:49 AM
A plot in the sequel? Why start now?
 
2012-09-11 10:42:19 AM

loonatic112358: FirstNationalBastard: Well, first, wouldn't the people of Earf already be prepared for another invasion?

Not so much, if there was a second wave closely follwing the first, the earf would be easier to take down


Ah, but Earf would find a way to repel the invasion.
 
2012-09-11 10:42:55 AM

loonatic112358: FirstNationalBastard: Well, first, wouldn't the people of Earf already be prepared for another invasion?

Not so much, if there was a second wave closely follwing the first, the earf would be easier to take down


What a novel idea on a day like today.
 
2012-09-11 10:42:57 AM
The alien's anitvirus auto-updated?
 
2012-09-11 10:43:01 AM
The aliens aren't going quietly into the night
 
2012-09-11 10:43:25 AM
#1 Macs are no longer the Typhoid Marys of the computer world so they couldn't use it as a safe platform to launch the next virus to take down the entire alien fleet because it'd get infected too.
 
2012-09-11 10:43:47 AM
The article writer did not address the problem of having entirely too much time on his hands.
 
2012-09-11 10:44:23 AM

InfrasonicTom: loonatic112358: FirstNationalBastard: Well, first, wouldn't the people of Earf already be prepared for another invasion?

Not so much, if there was a second wave closely follwing the first, the earf would be easier to take down

What a novel idea on a day like today.


Beautiful day outside where i am, what about for you
 
2012-09-11 10:46:11 AM
Besides the fact that the first one was a total piece O' shiat?
 
2012-09-11 10:47:05 AM
The biggest complaint about the original was that the virus worked on the alien computers. This is commonly called one of the biggest plot holes. I agreed until I saw the deleted scene where Bren Spiners character explains to Jeff Goldblum that we only have computers thanks to the roswell crash. We reverse engineered all of our systems from the ships computer. So it would make sense that there would be come compatibility.

That's a rather important point. Why the hell did they delete it from the final cut?
 
2012-09-11 10:47:42 AM

FirstNationalBastard: Ah, but Earf would find a way to repel the invasion.


with what resources, they sort of used up most of what they had in the end there, if the 2nd fleet was within a year or two of the first, they'd find an earth still struggling to repair itself

decimated population, many military installations gone, much of the manufacturing capacity gone, mind you Detroit should still be ok, as the author points out a very cold winter from the smoking ruins of the crashed ships,

You could maybe do a survival and rebuild series off that, ending with the earflings getting off this rock to find out what's out there
 
2012-09-11 10:50:10 AM

loonatic112358: InfrasonicTom: loonatic112358: FirstNationalBastard: Well, first, wouldn't the people of Earf already be prepared for another invasion?

Not so much, if there was a second wave closely follwing the first, the earf would be easier to take down

What a novel idea on a day like today.

Beautiful day outside where i am, what about for you


Sky is blue, nice crisp fall weather out there.
 
2012-09-11 10:50:22 AM

InfrasonicTom: loonatic112358: FirstNationalBastard: Well, first, wouldn't the people of Earf already be prepared for another invasion?

Not so much, if there was a second wave closely follwing the first, the earf would be easier to take down

What a novel idea on a day like today.


A SECOND SPACESHIP HAS JUST HIT THE SOUTH OF EARF!
 
2012-09-11 10:50:32 AM
 
2012-09-11 10:51:07 AM

loonatic112358: with what resources, they sort of used up most of what they had in the end there, if the 2nd fleet was within a year or two of the first, they'd find an earth still struggling to repair itself


Yeah, but you'd need to play a little with technology advancement to make the film speak more clearly to the current generation of movie-goers, and just imagine what an iPad would do to one of those motherships...
 
2012-09-11 10:51:20 AM
All the point the author makes are points that a typical blockbuster movie wouldn't even bother to explain in DVD commentary let alone the plot and dialog of the actual movie. They'd just leave everything unsaid put in some fancy special effects and explosions and call it a day.

They'd probably make millions on it too.
 
2012-09-11 10:51:48 AM
Spoiler: In this one, we win by trolling the aliens into ragequitting.
 
2012-09-11 10:55:03 AM
They bumped off the best character in the first one?
i1151.photobucket.com
Sh*tter's full - and I'm back from the dead!
 
2012-09-11 10:55:08 AM
Somebody greenlit and payed for that steaming pile of plot hole called Battleship, so anything is possible.
 
2012-09-11 10:55:33 AM
OS X Mountain Lion has Gatekeeper now?

/curses!
//foiled again!
 
2012-09-11 10:57:02 AM

Disposable Rob: That article officially thought more about consequnces of the plot than Dean Devlin ever did.


Speaking of Dean Devlin movies, I want my Stargate sequel. They kept kicking around the idea of a direct sequel to the movie, ignoring SG-1. I would love to see what they had planned for that.
 
2012-09-11 10:58:11 AM

Twigz221: The biggest complaint about the original was that the virus worked on the alien computers. This is commonly called one of the biggest plot holes. I agreed until I saw the deleted scene where Bren Spiners character explains to Jeff Goldblum that we only have computers thanks to the roswell crash. We reverse engineered all of our systems from the ships computer. So it would make sense that there would be come compatibility.

That's a rather important point. Why the hell did they delete it from the final cut?


Unless they also invented a time machine there were computers before Roswell. Highlighting a stupid plot point would make it worse
 
2012-09-11 10:58:45 AM

Tor_Eckman: Somebody greenlit and payed for that steaming pile of plot hole called Battleship, so anything is possible.


I enjoyed battleship. Sometimes it's enjoyable to watch good guys kill aliens. It doesn't need to make much sense.
 
2012-09-11 10:58:50 AM

Twigz221: The biggest complaint about the original was that the virus worked on the alien computers. This is commonly called one of the biggest plot holes. I agreed until I saw the deleted scene where Bren Spiners character explains to Jeff Goldblum that we only have computers thanks to the roswell crash. We reverse engineered all of our systems from the ships computer. So it would make sense that there would be come compatibility.

That's a rather important point. Why the hell did they delete it from the final cut?


I'd always assumed that was the reason. Anyone smart enough to know what reverse engineering is doesn't really need a scene explaining that's what happened. That's a rare instance of a big, stupid Hollywood flick not assuming its audience is completely stupid.
 
2012-09-11 10:59:26 AM

Twigz221: The biggest complaint about the original was that the virus worked on the alien computers. This is commonly called one of the biggest plot holes. I agreed until I saw the deleted scene where Bren Spiners character explains to Jeff Goldblum that we only have computers thanks to the roswell crash. We reverse engineered all of our systems from the ships computer. So it would make sense that there would be come compatibility.

That's a rather important point. Why the hell did they delete it from the final cut?


Aw hell naw! Who on earf would make such a colossal blunder?
 
2012-09-11 11:00:50 AM

loonatic112358: FirstNationalBastard: Well, first, wouldn't the people of Earf already be prepared for another invasion?

Not so much, if there was a second wave closely follwing the first, the earf would be easier to take down


Am I the only to remember them saying at one point, that the whole alien population just jumped from planet to planet, and therefore were all here ? Or am I mistaking it with an other movie ?
 
2012-09-11 11:01:35 AM

Jclark666: Spoiler: In this one, we win by trolling the aliens into ragequitting.


we simply upload Dark Souls, Super Meatboy and CS:GO into their computers . Then we invite them to play dust 2 and italy.
 
2012-09-11 11:01:49 AM

loonatic112358: FirstNationalBastard: Ah, but Earf would find a way to repel the invasion.

with what resources, they sort of used up most of what they had in the end there, if the 2nd fleet was within a year or two of the first, they'd find an earth still struggling to repair itself

decimated population, many military installations gone, much of the manufacturing capacity gone, mind you Detroit should still be ok, as the author points out a very cold winter from the smoking ruins of the crashed ships,

You could maybe do a survival and rebuild series off that, ending with the earflings getting off this rock to find out what's out there


Maybe they have some sweet replicator style tech they can declassify and rebuild he cities like they were or something. Basically if there is a plot problema wizard alien technology did it
 
2012-09-11 11:03:30 AM

padraig: loonatic112358: FirstNationalBastard: Well, first, wouldn't the people of Earf already be prepared for another invasion?

Not so much, if there was a second wave closely follwing the first, the earf would be easier to take down

Am I the only to remember them saying at one point, that the whole alien population just jumped from planet to planet, and therefore were all here ? Or am I mistaking it with an other movie ?


President Pullman described them as Locusts. They can always say there were more out there. Maybe they "swarm" over entire solar systems and some of them are on Mahs.
 
2012-09-11 11:04:08 AM

loonatic112358: FirstNationalBastard: Well, first, wouldn't the people of Earf already be prepared for another invasion?

Not so much, if there was a second wave closely follwing the first, the earf would be easier to take down


It's doubtful that another mother ship would be following the path the first one was taking. It's clear from ID that the aliens landed on a planet and strip mined it for the resources, then left for the next one when it was useless. A second ship following the first one would not find untouched planets to consume, so they would take another path through the galaxy. They also wouldn't be close by for the same reason; planets with resources aren't all that common, so they will spread out.

As for the alien ships on Earth after the movie ended, don't forget the hordes of fighters each one disgorged. Each fighter had at least one pilot; did the defenders destroy every single one? It appeared from the ones we saw that the interior of those ships almost certainly was ruined by the feedback and explosion from the main weapon; we see flames and smoke from all over the ships. Plus the impact of megatons of ship crashing into the planet can't be good for the inhabitants either.
 
2012-09-11 11:04:19 AM

Egoy3k: Tor_Eckman: Somebody greenlit and payed for that steaming pile of plot hole called Battleship, so anything is possible.

I enjoyed battleship. Sometimes it's enjoyable to watch good guys kill aliens. It doesn't need to make much sense.


I understand suspending disbelief. But that thing had more holes in it than Sonny Corleone at a tollbooth.
 
2012-09-11 11:05:24 AM

Faddy: Twigz221: The biggest complaint about the original was that the virus worked on the alien computers. This is commonly called one of the biggest plot holes. I agreed until I saw the deleted scene where Bren Spiners character explains to Jeff Goldblum that we only have computers thanks to the roswell crash. We reverse engineered all of our systems from the ships computer. So it would make sense that there would be come compatibility.

That's a rather important point. Why the hell did they delete it from the final cut?

Unless they also invented a time machine there were computers before Roswell. Highlighting a stupid plot point would make it worse


Transistors were invented shortly after the Roswell crash, so you see the connection show up in some Alien conspiracies.
 
2012-09-11 11:05:51 AM

clkeagle: DRFTA, but I'm guessing the entire, lengthy list is something like:

1. It was a closed story, and writers have nowhere to go with it.

End of list.


Unless you want to write a story about post-ID4 society with an entirely different group of people trying to rebuild civilization, done in two.
 
2012-09-11 11:05:55 AM

padraig: loonatic112358: FirstNationalBastard: Well, first, wouldn't the people of Earf already be prepared for another invasion?

Not so much, if there was a second wave closely follwing the first, the earf would be easier to take down

Am I the only to remember them saying at one point, that the whole alien population just jumped from planet to planet, and therefore were all here ? Or am I mistaking it with an other movie ?


That's what I thought, too. IMDB backs that up:

President Thomas Whitmore: I saw... its thoughts. I saw what they're planning to do. They're like locusts. They're moving from planet to planet... their whole civilization. After they've consumed every natural resource they move on... and we're next. Nuke 'em. Let's nuke the bastards.

So there's no cavalry, no backup. That was it.
 
2012-09-11 11:07:06 AM

Twigz221: The biggest complaint about the original was that the virus worked on the alien computers. This is commonly called one of the biggest plot holes. I agreed until I saw the deleted scene where Bren Spiners character explains to Jeff Goldblum that we only have computers thanks to the roswell crash. We reverse engineered all of our systems from the ships computer. So it would make sense that there would be come compatibility.

That's a rather important point. Why the hell did they delete it from the final cut?


Actually, you don't even need that.

Goldblum's character figures out their encoding scheme fairly early. He *KNOWS* how they send numbers. They are using some sort of conventional radio to communicate (they hijack our satellites for that purpose, remember?), and we have operating computers on the captured spacecraft. At that point, it's just a matter of black-box testing to figure out what base-level machine language commands you need to use to write a very simple virus that simply overwhelms the alien computers.

Don't forget that the aliens in ID have a sort-of hive mentality. While looking at external threats, it might never have occurred to them that they might be attacked from within, which is essentially what happens in ID. They wouldn't have even simple virus protections built into their computers because it wouldn't have been something they needed to worry about.

Now, could one person accomplish that in 24 hours? Nope. But a bunch of the best and brightest, with some knowledge of how the alien technology works, and the knowledge of how the aliens encode their data, might be able to. Unfortunately, the movie skips that part, though I understand why.
 
2012-09-11 11:07:43 AM
Interesting that they leave out one major plot issue with the FIRST one: There's zero reason for the big bad aliens to attack the Earth for the reasons given. There is, readily available, far more of the very resources the aliens were after, ripe for the plucking with no messy need for invasion, even before you reach Jupiter. And we're talking about several Earth's worth of water, oxygen, minerals, etc, just sitting out there.
 
2012-09-11 11:07:45 AM
I have problems with the first movie.

Why were the aliens using TCP/IP?
 
2012-09-11 11:08:54 AM

unchellmatt: Interesting that they leave out one major plot issue with the FIRST one: There's zero reason for the big bad aliens to attack the Earth for the reasons given. There is, readily available, far more of the very resources the aliens were after, ripe for the plucking with no messy need for invasion, even before you reach Jupiter. And we're talking about several Earth's worth of water, oxygen, minerals, etc, just sitting out there.


Universe's largest collection of Beanie Babies. FACT.
 
2012-09-11 11:09:24 AM

madcan34: Besides the fact that the first one was a total piece O' shiat?


This1000

Seriously, that movie sucked. My eyes hurt from them being rolled back into my head and the only amusing part was on the way out as the credits were rolling my wife says "OH, I DIDN'T KNOW JAMES EARL JONES WAS IN THIS" and a whole ton of people stop in their tracks to try to pick his name out of the credits list.
 
2012-09-11 11:12:22 AM

BalugaJoe: I have problems with the first movie.

Why were the aliens using TCP/IP?


4.bp.blogspot.com

How do we know they didn't invent the thing?
 
2012-09-11 11:12:27 AM

padraig: loonatic112358: FirstNationalBastard: Well, first, wouldn't the people of Earf already be prepared for another invasion?

Not so much, if there was a second wave closely follwing the first, the earf would be easier to take down

Am I the only to remember them saying at one point, that the whole alien population just jumped from planet to planet, and therefore were all here ? Or am I mistaking it with an other movie ?


No, you're right. So the plausibility of survivors of the alien species holding out and defending their crashed ships is the more likely sequel scenario. Given the swath of destruction, it's also more likely that humans outnumber them several times over so the few survivors could be easily wiped out by small arms fire, larger hold outs in intact ship areas can be breached. That is of course, if the aliens don't reach some self-destruct mechanism to destroy the remaining parts of the ship with the human invaders on board.
 
2012-09-11 11:13:25 AM

Car_Ramrod: padraig: loonatic112358: FirstNationalBastard: Well, first, wouldn't the people of Earf already be prepared for another invasion?

Not so much, if there was a second wave closely follwing the first, the earf would be easier to take down

Am I the only to remember them saying at one point, that the whole alien population just jumped from planet to planet, and therefore were all here ? Or am I mistaking it with an other movie ?

That's what I thought, too. IMDB backs that up:

President Thomas Whitmore: I saw... its thoughts. I saw what they're planning to do. They're like locusts. They're moving from planet to planet... their whole civilization. After they've consumed every natural resource they move on... and we're next. Nuke 'em. Let's nuke the bastards.

So there's no cavalry, no backup. That was it.


Birds eat locusts. Vultures eat carcasses. Opportunists always await in the wings.

/can't rebottle magic
//ID4:2 = Scary Movie 5
 
2012-09-11 11:14:30 AM

OtherLittleGuy: ID4


What the hell does that "abbreviation" mean, anyway? People kept trying to explain that it was "independence day" and that's on July 4, so it "makes sense", but I've never been really satisfied with that answer (because it _doesn't_ make any more sense than calling Groundhog Day "GD2" and that's patently stupid)
 
2012-09-11 11:15:12 AM
It doesn't matter where I am, or what I'm doing - if I happen to see this movie is on TV, I have to sit and down and watch it. I can't help myself. I've done it so many times, I can quote pretty much every line - it boggled my wife's mind the first time I did.
 
2012-09-11 11:15:36 AM
Really? Almost 50 posts and no one biatching about how they think Earf is 'racist'?

What on Earf?
 
2012-09-11 11:19:52 AM
I enjoyed this movie when it came out, but alas my science background has deepened considerably since then, and I have a hard time suspending the disbelief that when an object one quarter the size of the moon detonates in near-Earth orbit, much of the surface will remain undamaged.

To say nothing of city sized saucers crashing to the ground (although I suspect the G-forces involved would plaster any surviving aliens into goo).

Good intentions perhaps, but let the movie rest. There's always a remake to be made.
 
2012-09-11 11:20:58 AM
The sequel should start literally start 2 minutes where the last one left off.

You really think all of those aliens inside those huge ships where killed when they crashed?

Here's how ID2 starts: Will Smith and Bill Pullman light up those cigars all happy and victorious like. Then they hear a rumbling noise coming from the horizon. They look up only to see a massive alien hoard emerging from the downed spacecraft and charging toward them like the English army in Braveheart.

The cigar falls out of Will Smiths mouth, and we get a dolly-zoom on his face which looks like this:
www.quietofthematinee.com
 
2012-09-11 11:21:46 AM

BalugaJoe: I have problems with the first movie.

Why were the aliens using TCP/IP?


The cut scene explains that TCP/IP was actually reverse engineered from the area 51 alien spacecraft.
 
2012-09-11 11:21:47 AM

Car_Ramrod: unchellmatt: Interesting that they leave out one major plot issue with the FIRST one: There's zero reason for the big bad aliens to attack the Earth for the reasons given. There is, readily available, far more of the very resources the aliens were after, ripe for the plucking with no messy need for invasion, even before you reach Jupiter. And we're talking about several Earth's worth of water, oxygen, minerals, etc, just sitting out there.

Universe's largest collection of Beanie Babies. FACT.


You don't know that! There could be entire terrifying worlds of Beanie Babies out there!
 
2012-09-11 11:22:04 AM

SithLord: padraig: loonatic112358: FirstNationalBastard: Well, first, wouldn't the people of Earf already be prepared for another invasion?

Not so much, if there was a second wave closely follwing the first, the earf would be easier to take down

Am I the only to remember them saying at one point, that the whole alien population just jumped from planet to planet, and therefore were all here ? Or am I mistaking it with an other movie ?

No, you're right. So the plausibility of survivors of the alien species holding out and defending their crashed ships is the more likely sequel scenario. Given the swath of destruction, it's also more likely that humans outnumber them several times over so the few survivors could be easily wiped out by small arms fire, larger hold outs in intact ship areas can be breached. That is of course, if the aliens don't reach some self-destruct mechanism to destroy the remaining parts of the ship with the human invaders on board.


Well, it wouldn't necessarily be that easy.

Much of humanity in a position to do anything about them would be destroyed. Some groups of surviving aliens may be able to survive and thrive relatively undisturbed for a while due to the remoteness of their crash sites, etc. After some consolidation, they'd have to take the offensive simply out of self-preservation. Waiting around for the Earthlings to slaughter them piecemeal wouldn't be an option.

Don't forget also that they still have superior technology at their disposal. We don't know what kind of small arms or other weapons they have at their disposal: We defeated them before their invasion force (presumably for mopping-up operations, followed by planetary exploitation) was able to land.
 
2012-09-11 11:22:08 AM

MagSeven: The alien's anitvirus auto-updated?


They were using McAfee, and the update still can't identify the virus.

In other news, article writers who need to make a deadline sometimes overthink "popcorn" movies in an effort to publish material on geek sites.

I would like to comment on something: Destroying 15 major cities would have far less impact on the human race than you might imagine. Far more infrastructure exists outside of those cities. Food production, industry, power plants... none of those are found major cities. Banks, lawyers, hipsters (lots of hipsters) live in cities, and I think we can all agree the world might even be a better place without all that.

Can anybody on Fark name something CRITICAL to the human race that might have been destroyed by these aliens in one of those 15 cities?

If anything, the Earth might benefit from the population reduction.
 
2012-09-11 11:24:33 AM

robohobo: Really? Almost 50 posts and no one biatching about how they think Earf is 'racist'?


Not everyone on Earf is a racist. We've bee working, slowly, to lessen the impact of that universal human tendency. Perhaps in a future Earf, everyone will be able to live together in tolerance and cooperation.
 
2012-09-11 11:24:57 AM

robohobo: Really? Almost 50 posts and no one biatching about how they think Earf is 'racist'?

What on Earf?


Well Earf is the most racist planet in the solar system, but it's my home, dammit!
 
2012-09-11 11:25:13 AM
Independence Day 2

*Aliens press fire primary weapon button*

"Never gonna give you up... Never gonna saayyy goooodbyyyyeeee"

Victory thru Rick Rolling!
 
2012-09-11 11:25:25 AM

machoprogrammer: BalugaJoe: I have problems with the first movie.

Why were the aliens using TCP/IP?

The cut scene explains that TCP/IP was actually reverse engineered from the area 51 alien spacecraft.


Maybe it was AppleTalk. Or NetBios. Or IPX. Maybe the aliens actually started Novell, which would explain their complete pooch-screw in terms of marketing in the mid-to-late 90's.
 
2012-09-11 11:27:04 AM

dittybopper: Now, could one person accomplish that in 24 hours? Nope.


Life.. uh, um... life... uh... Finds A Way.
 
2012-09-11 11:30:24 AM
top50sf.files.wordpress.com
The best part.
 
2012-09-11 11:30:54 AM

LesserEvil:

Can anybody on Fark name something CRITICAL to the human race that might have been destroyed by these aliens in one of those 15 cities?
.


B-b-b-ut culture!

/btw, I agree, am wholeheartedly awaiting aliens or zombies. Or both.
//sarah connor gets wet thinking about my hole in the ground t-2 style armories
 
2012-09-11 11:31:25 AM

sprag: OtherLittleGuy: ID4

What the hell does that "abbreviation" mean, anyway? People kept trying to explain that it was "independence day" and that's on July 4, so it "makes sense", but I've never been really satisfied with that answer (because it _doesn't_ make any more sense than calling Groundhog Day "GD2" and that's patently stupid)


It's catchier than just ID. It's all just marketing. It makes sense because it makes money.
 
2012-09-11 11:31:58 AM
Actual headline: The potential plot problems with an Independence Day sequel

Green lit headline: The plot problems facing an Independence Day sequel

Really that headline was green lit
 
2012-09-11 11:33:08 AM
There will be a problem with OS X 10.8.1

i50.tinypic.com
 
2012-09-11 11:33:40 AM

Waldo Pepper: Actual headline: The potential plot problems with an Independence Day sequel

Green lit headline: The plot problems facing an Independence Day sequel

Really that headline was green lit


It's a perfectly cromulent headline.

Sure, I would have added something about Earf in as a kicker, but otherwise...
 
2012-09-11 11:34:46 AM

LesserEvil: MagSeven: The alien's anitvirus auto-updated?

They were using McAfee, and the update still can't identify the virus.

In other news, article writers who need to make a deadline sometimes overthink "popcorn" movies in an effort to publish material on geek sites.

I would like to comment on something: Destroying 15 major cities would have far less impact on the human race than you might imagine. Far more infrastructure exists outside of those cities. Food production, industry, power plants... none of those are found major cities. Banks, lawyers, hipsters (lots of hipsters) live in cities, and I think we can all agree the world might even be a better place without all that.

Can anybody on Fark name something CRITICAL to the human race that might have been destroyed by these aliens in one of those 15 cities?

If anything, the Earth might benefit from the population reduction.


It wasn't just those 15 cities. There were 36 saucers detached from the mother ship. After that initial attack on July 2nd, we get this:

President Thomas Whitmore: Atlanta, Chicago, Philadelphia, destroyed.
Gen. Gray: We have also learned that NORAD and our top commands were the first to be taken out. At this rate, we could be looking at the worldwide destruction of every major city in the next 36 hours.


Assuming that's on July 3rd, and that a "major city" has at least 2 million inhabitants, that would be at least 120 cities, implying that it only takes about 11 hours for a saucer to travel to a new city, perhaps a few hundred miles away, and destroy it. Seems reasonable.

(Math: 120 cities/36 saucers = 3.333 cities per saucer. If it takes 36 hours, that's 36/3.333 = 10.8 hours per city)
 
2012-09-11 11:35:11 AM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: There will be a problem with OS X 10.8.1

[i50.tinypic.com image 288x288]


well that and the battery would have died on the flight up.
//come on 8.2
 
2012-09-11 11:35:47 AM
I don't recall there being a deep reason behind the first independence day invasion... and that wasn't the point really, because it was a star driven movie full of one liners and entertaining scenes. Summer blockbuster fodder that's meant to be watched rather than interpreted by film snobs or sci-fi buffs.

Do they really need a plot for the second movie?
I'd figure it would revolve around taking the war to the aliens and some flippant reasoning behind why they attack other races or maybe why they wanted earth specifically.

Doesn't matter.
It needs to be packed full of star power, humorous one liners and big explosions.
If you can pull it off, I'll be there to turn off my brain and munch popcorn for an hour and a half.

/Transformers had one of the better earth invasion reasoning's, ironically.
/The one thing that earth has which you cant find elsewhere is a large slave labor population.
 
2012-09-11 11:36:40 AM

FirstNationalBastard: cromulent


otherwise it is unworthy of being green lit.
 
2012-09-11 11:37:09 AM
Dean Devlin you say? Easy. Four words:

Independence Day - Leverage crossover.

"Let's go steal an alien mothership."
 
2012-09-11 11:38:27 AM

Twigz221: We reverse engineered all of our systems from the ships computer. So it would make sense that there would be come compatibility.


I don't much on the programming of computers but could one from the 1950s be used to hack into a modern day mac or pc?
 
2012-09-11 11:38:50 AM

perigee: [top50sf.files.wordpress.com image 600x398]
The best part.


I love that movie so much.

/ack, ack-ack
//ack
 
2012-09-11 11:39:43 AM

sprag: OtherLittleGuy: ID4

What the hell does that "abbreviation" mean, anyway? People kept trying to explain that it was "independence day" and that's on July 4, so it "makes sense", but I've never been really satisfied with that answer (because it _doesn't_ make any more sense than calling Groundhog Day "GD2" and that's patently stupid)


It was called ID4, so that the title could be trademarked.
 
2012-09-11 11:40:15 AM

loonatic112358: FirstNationalBastard: Ah, but Earf would find a way to repel the invasion.

with what resources, they sort of used up most of what they had in the end there, if the 2nd fleet was within a year or two of the first, they'd find an earth still struggling to repair itself

decimated population, many military installations gone, much of the manufacturing capacity gone, mind you Detroit should still be ok, as the author points out a very cold winter from the smoking ruins of the crashed ships,

You could maybe do a survival and rebuild series off that, ending with the earflings getting off this rock to find out what's out there


Except there is no second wave..... the president clearly said, after being in telepathic link, that it was thier entire society, moving from one location to the next..... We doomed yet another species to extinction, which we have actually been quite good at for a while! A broader idea would be survivors of the alien crash fighting earth forces in ground battles.
 
2012-09-11 11:44:39 AM

Twigz221: The biggest complaint about the original was that the virus worked on the alien computers. This is commonly called one of the biggest plot holes. I agreed until I saw the deleted scene where Bren Spiners character explains to Jeff Goldblum that we only have computers thanks to the roswell crash. We reverse engineered all of our systems from the ships computer. So it would make sense that there would be come compatibility.

That's a rather important point. Why the hell did they delete it from the final cut?


That in itself is a plot hole. The Roswell Crash was in 1948. The movie was set almost 50 years later. Plenty of time for the aliens to improve their computers. And then there's how "reverse engineered" is never as good as the original.
 
2012-09-11 11:46:12 AM

LesserEvil: Can anybody on Fark name something CRITICAL to the human race that might have been destroyed by these aliens in one of those 15 cities?If anything, the Earth might benefit from the population re


Houston was nuked, large amounts of the energy sector is engineered from, driven from and manufactured in that area

I guess they could fall back to Midland/Odessa or Tulsa
 
2012-09-11 11:47:54 AM

LesserEvil: MagSeven: The alien's anitvirus auto-updated?

They were using McAfee, and the update still can't identify the virus.

In other news, article writers who need to make a deadline sometimes overthink "popcorn" movies in an effort to publish material on geek sites.

I would like to comment on something: Destroying 15 major cities would have far less impact on the human race than you might imagine. Far more infrastructure exists outside of those cities. Food production, industry, power plants... none of those are found major cities. Banks, lawyers, hipsters (lots of hipsters) live in cities, and I think we can all agree the world might even be a better place without all that.

Can anybody on Fark name something CRITICAL to the human race that might have been destroyed by these aliens in one of those 15 cities?

If anything, the Earth might benefit from the population reduction.


You could argue that the world would be better wihtou all those things we find in a city, but the sudden removal of those would lead to a lot of problems for a few years. Financial ond central govt grinding to a halt could very easily lead to the breakdown of society.
 
2012-09-11 11:48:42 AM
My two cents for a plot:

-The aliens when they arrived on Earth were actually fleeing annhiliation by another (2nd) alien race. That (2nd) alien race shows up and is not too friendly to humans: "Ours is a religious conflict, we will not stop until we are the only life form in the universe." Humans may have to ally with 1st aliens in order to survive.

Subplot:

-North Korea, Iran, Iraq, not so nice countries now have access to advanced alien weapons technology. This upsets the world power balance as most of the U.S. and its allies military power was destroyed in the opening days of the alien invasion. Third world countries weren't hit that bad as they were secondary targets so now they have a great deal of economic and military power. U.S. is rebuilding but is struggling and is at war with a few other countries.

-Aliens survived and conduct guerilla campaigns throughout the world. They have human supporters and sympathizers. Through telepathy and mind control devices there are sleeper agents in key government, military, etc.,. positions that are helpign the aliens.

-Some aliens try diplomacy, "give us a continent and we will rebuild earth and share our advanced tech"

-U.S. is ravaged and splintered due to a civil war. The East adn West coast were hit the hardest but the central "fly over" states were relatively unaffected. Resources are limited and it becomes teh haves vs. have nots. Survivors form gangs seeking food and supplies, militias form to defend food and supplies. A hero emerges? A new president tries to unite teh country again and succeeds just in time to stop teh 2nd alien invasion.
 
2012-09-11 11:48:55 AM

liam76: You could argue that the world would be better wihtou all those things we find in a city, but the sudden removal of those would lead to a lot of problems for a few years. Financial ond central govt grinding to a halt could very easily lead to the breakdown of society.


it'd be the rise of the rednecks, the SCAdians, the Arcadians and any other group where being able to catch your own meal is prized
 
2012-09-11 11:49:17 AM

Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: Twigz221: The biggest complaint about the original was that the virus worked on the alien computers. This is commonly called one of the biggest plot holes. I agreed until I saw the deleted scene where Bren Spiners character explains to Jeff Goldblum that we only have computers thanks to the roswell crash. We reverse engineered all of our systems from the ships computer. So it would make sense that there would be come compatibility.

That's a rather important point. Why the hell did they delete it from the final cut?

That in itself is a plot hole. The Roswell Crash was in 1948. The movie was set almost 50 years later. Plenty of time for the aliens to improve their computers. And then there's how "reverse engineered" is never as good as the original.


Actually, from the perspective of the alien "mothership", assuming it was traveling at something close to the speed of light, probably only a few months (maybe a year) have passed. That's why the "old" alien fighter looked just like the "new" fighters.

Relativity, my friend.
 
2012-09-11 11:49:22 AM

Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: That in itself is a plot hole. The Roswell Crash was in 1948. The movie was set almost 50 years later. Plenty of time for the aliens to improve their computers. And then there's how "reverse engineered" is never as good as the original.


Maybe it was a standard platform that was designated to be left alone? You wouldn't want incompatible systems when you could be light years apart, and might not see each other for 50 years.

/did not see deleted scene
 
2012-09-11 11:49:46 AM

Spanky_McFarksalot: Twigz221: We reverse engineered all of our systems from the ships computer. So it would make sense that there would be come compatibility.

I don't much on the programming of computers but could one from the 1950s be used to hack into a modern day mac or pc?


Yes, given a way for the two to communicate that is mutually understandable. It might actually be harder than the case in ID4.

We've had decades of experience dealing with people who write malicious software. We password protect our computers to prevent unauthorized access. That would make it hard for a person using a 1950's computer and some ginned-up USB interface to actually break into a modern computer.

A computer built and programmed by an insular hive-based intelligence almost certainly wouldn't have any of those precautions built into their machines. To the extent that they'd be protected from outside access, the limiting factor would be that no one could get inside their shields. That might be all the protection they needed for a long time.
 
2012-09-11 11:50:16 AM

I am Wee Todd Ed: -U.S. is ravaged and splintered due to a civil war. The East adn West coast were hit the hardest but the central "fly over" states were relatively unaffected. Resources are limited and it becomes teh haves vs. have nots. Survivors form gangs seeking food and supplies, militias form to defend food and supplies. A hero emerges? A new president tries to unite teh country again and succeeds just in time to stop teh 2nd alien invasion.


the SDF-1 crashlands causing the people of\ earth to unit against giants
 
2012-09-11 11:50:38 AM

Bendal: loonatic112358: FirstNationalBastard: Well, first, wouldn't the people of Earf already be prepared for another invasion?

Not so much, if there was a second wave closely follwing the first, the earf would be easier to take down

It's doubtful that another mother ship would be following the path the first one was taking. It's clear from ID that the aliens landed on a planet and strip mined it for the resources, then left for the next one when it was useless. A second ship following the first one would not find untouched planets to consume, so they would take another path through the galaxy. They also wouldn't be close by for the same reason; planets with resources aren't all that common, so they will spread out.

As for the alien ships on Earth after the movie ended, don't forget the hordes of fighters each one disgorged. Each fighter had at least one pilot; did the defenders destroy every single one? It appeared from the ones we saw that the interior of those ships almost certainly was ruined by the feedback and explosion from the main weapon; we see flames and smoke from all over the ships. Plus the impact of megatons of ship crashing into the planet can't be good for the inhabitants either.


The alien fighter from Roswell, however, shows that without an active mothership in orbit, the fighters would be unpowered. In fact the aliens Biomechanical suits might not even function, leaving them without atmosphere and exposed with only thier psionic abilities to attack and defend with.

One plausable idea would be that the alien crafts that crashed discharged a microbial alien lifeform into earth's atmosphere causing a "body-snatcher" type effect.....

or the midiclorians finaly show up. LOL
 
2012-09-11 11:50:55 AM
I just pretend that District 9 is the sequel. Just like I pretend the Terminator movies are a prequel to The Matrix.
 
2012-09-11 11:51:31 AM

MagSeven: I just pretend that District 9 is the sequel. Just like I pretend the Terminator movies are a prequel to The Matrix.


i could see that.....
 
2012-09-11 11:51:52 AM
Am I the only nerd pissed that people apparently want more independance day but I'm a nerd for enjoying all the stargates?
 
2012-09-11 11:52:50 AM

NeoCortex42: Disposable Rob: That article officially thought more about consequnces of the plot than Dean Devlin ever did.

Speaking of Dean Devlin movies, I want my Stargate sequel. They kept kicking around the idea of a direct sequel to the movie, ignoring SG-1. I would love to see what they had planned for that.


They did three movies, three TV series (totaling nearly 400 episodes), and an animated series (26 episodes). I think they've explored the Stargate universe pretty well, frankly.
 
2012-09-11 11:53:27 AM
Why bother with a plot in the first place?

You get the aliens to come back and try to eradicate us, like in the first place, then you get the guys from Battleship to join forces with Smith to get him uploaded into the ship's system and fight their defense Matrix Style in a virtual representation of their ship and the kid from Chronicle shows up as saves the day.

Go nuts, bring together all the aborted franchises together in one final blaze of glory, like the Expendables of CGI blockbusters.

Then shut up and take my money.
 
2012-09-11 11:54:22 AM

padraig: sprag: OtherLittleGuy: ID4

What the hell does that "abbreviation" mean, anyway? People kept trying to explain that it was "independence day" and that's on July 4, so it "makes sense", but I've never been really satisfied with that answer (because it _doesn't_ make any more sense than calling Groundhog Day "GD2" and that's patently stupid)

It was called ID4, so that the title could be trademarked.


That makes a certain amount of sense. Thanks
 
2012-09-11 11:55:55 AM
You know, just by killing the boss and blowing up his headquarters doesn't end the war, or the major political system that the galaxy has known for 20+ years.

But everyone is still singing and dancing at the end of "Jedi"
 
2012-09-11 11:59:29 AM

MagSeven: I just pretend that District 9 is the sequel. Just like I pretend the Terminator movies are a prequel to The Matrix.


I've long thought that the Terminator films were Matrix prequels.

/poor sarah connor. no way cancer beat her. she'd beat cancer with a farking handgun
 
2012-09-11 12:01:18 PM

Car_Ramrod: unchellmatt: Interesting that they leave out one major plot issue with the FIRST one: There's zero reason for the big bad aliens to attack the Earth for the reasons given. There is, readily available, far more of the very resources the aliens were after, ripe for the plucking with no messy need for invasion, even before you reach Jupiter. And we're talking about several Earth's worth of water, oxygen, minerals, etc, just sitting out there.

Universe's largest collection of Beanie Babies. FACT.


Not to mention the fastest strippers in the galaxy.
 
2012-09-11 12:02:31 PM

LesserEvil: MagSeven: The alien's anitvirus auto-updated?

They were using McAfee, and the update still can't identify the virus.

In other news, article writers who need to make a deadline sometimes overthink "popcorn" movies in an effort to publish material on geek sites.

I would like to comment on something: Destroying 15 major cities would have far less impact on the human race than you might imagine. Far more infrastructure exists outside of those cities. Food production, industry, power plants... none of those are found major cities. Banks, lawyers, hipsters (lots of hipsters) live in cities, and I think we can all agree the world might even be a better place without all that.

Can anybody on Fark name something CRITICAL to the human race that might have been destroyed by these aliens in one of those 15 cities?

If anything, the Earth might benefit from the population reduction.


The details of the movie are a little fuzzy at this point, but I think the total destruction of major cities would have been near complete by the end of the movie. They do mention something about worldwide destruction in 48 or 72 hours, I can't recall. At that level of devastation you probably don't have much infrastructure left nationally, if not globally, aside from possibly power, water, food, sewer, communications, roads, and other necessities at the small-town level. At the local level, farmers and small communities can probably pull through, but like any immediate post-apocalyptic scenario, you now have hordes of survivors deprived of food, shelter, and with no background in survival skills (we do live in the information age), and no system of elected government, law enforcement, etc, aside from whatever areas have surviving and coherent military presence.

If the aliens had invaded, say, 1850's USA, then the chaos would probably be a lot less. But in our-technology dependant age, we've become too dependant on our tools and much would be lost in the destruction of only major cities, not everything else. Even if survivors across the US (or any other nation) banded together, the truth is, we've used up so many resources globally that our civilization would never recover.
 
2012-09-11 12:03:07 PM
Plot setup:

Done as a cold war style movie. Aliens have two forces, the ones in what's left of the crippled mothership, which lost most of it's military capacity in the initial strike and the humans nuclear attack. the ship is crippled, but functional, but strangely silent. It's thought the aliens are trying to do what repairs they can, while coming up with an attack strategy. They need the planet, as they have no other way to get resources. the other group o aliens are surviving motherships, and the alien forces who abandoned ship as they went down. they are fighting a guerrilla war/war like the japanese hold outs in WWII. Lots of hit and run attacks, sabotage, etc. there are signs the aliens are rebuilding their ship, but otherwise, there is no immediate signs of a second invasion force.

Human forces are in disarray. Most nations are under effective martial law still, in many areas, due to the constant threat form alien ground forces, and shattered government institutions. With so much to rebuild, unemployment is basically nill, as anyone who isn't working something important is basically ether in a militia, or salvaging/rebuilding. Times are very tough, and even years later, there is still a lot of rationing of goods going on.

More over, there is a constant fear in the populations. Many are hesitant to regroup into massive cities, for fear of drawing another attack. Small towns sprang up all over the map, and people are somewhat scattered, where possible. Flyover country, and other large, open states, say massive population increases as a result. People look tot he skies and dread the site of the mothership, as a sort of omen filled false moon in the sky. Many dooms day groups say the end is nigh, as the aliens will just bombard us from orbit. Scientists and engineers are racing against time and limited budgets to reverse engineer something, anything, to give us protection.

And to make matters worse, their initial victory has drawn extra solar attention, with the amount of signals being detected by folks like SETI growing dramatically. We don't know if someone is just curious, if the aliens have called their own allied forces, or if their enemies seek to exploit this situation.

Movie ends with the mothership, at last showing massive activity, and the long awaited second force, which appears to be a mixmash of ships and ground forces, launching. To make matters worse, the signals seti is getting show that whatever is broadcasting, it's definitely getting closer.
 
2012-09-11 12:03:14 PM

NeoCortex42: Speaking of Dean Devlin movies, I want my Stargate sequel.


That would be awesome.

Col. Jack O'Niell (Kurt Russell) goes back through the gate and finds a highly civilized society. He also learns Dr. Daniel Jackson (James Spader) has become a lawyer, and has partnered with Admiral James T. Kirk (William Shatner) - who ended up at the same place via the temporal flux. The three sit down for a de-briefing on the balcony of Jackson's apartment, smoke cigars, and drink brandy. Kirk - as usual - sleeps over. O'Neill finally puts that bullet in his head after 10 minutes with both.

The End. 

/Denny Crane - name's on the door
 
2012-09-11 12:06:11 PM
That first lady chick, man she was fuggen HOTTTTTTTTTT in an east coast WASPy way. total DSLs.
 
2012-09-11 12:06:18 PM

oldfarthenry: They bumped off the best character in the first one?
[i1151.photobucket.com image 180x216]
Sh*tter's full - and I'm back from the dead!


That rated a actual laugh out loud.
 
2012-09-11 12:10:00 PM

buntz: You know, just by killing the boss and blowing up his headquarters doesn't end the war


Actually, sometimes it does. I can think of numerous examples from history.
 
2012-09-11 12:11:40 PM
Did Will Smith and Jeff Goldblum not destroy the mothership with the nuclear warhead?
 
2012-09-11 12:12:44 PM
also, this movie is a HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE guilty pleasure. It is so cheesy and melodramatic but also cool and compelling. Hell i even tear up sometimes!
 
2012-09-11 12:13:25 PM

dittybopper: buntz: You know, just by killing the boss and blowing up his headquarters doesn't end the war

Actually, sometimes it does. I can think of numerous examples from history.


Yeah, when John Wilkes Booth scored that head shot on Hitler it ended WW1
 
2012-09-11 12:13:33 PM

dittybopper: buntz: You know, just by killing the boss and blowing up his headquarters doesn't end the war

Actually, sometimes it does. I can think of numerous examples from history.


It works when you have a nation state willing to give up and order its forces to surrender. Not so effective when you are facing an enemy with nothing to lose and no rules governor what's acceptable in war. Once cannot describe how incredibly brutal a conflict like this would be in real life.
 
2012-09-11 12:14:36 PM

rickythepenguin: That first lady chick, man she was fuggen HOTTTTTTTTTT in an east coast WASPy way. total DSLs.


wait. not her. the chef of staff or whatever. the first lady dies.

th eone that jeff goldbulm marries at the end.
 
2012-09-11 12:18:18 PM

robbiex0r: Did Will Smith and Jeff Goldblum not destroy the mothership with the nuclear warhead?


Given the size of the ship, and the yield of the warhead, it doesn't make sense that they could have.
 
2012-09-11 12:18:57 PM
And since it's an Independence Day thread, I need to repeat my BIGGEST gripe with the film:

Randy Quaid is all drunk and stupid because he claims to have been abducted. Everyone laughs at him. Even his children!

Then they get invaded by aliens!!!!

So he says "I'll fly a jet, because I'm looking for some payback from when they abducted me"

And everyone laughs and rolls their eyes at him!!

Why??? He claims to be abducted and now they're being attacked BY ALIENS!

They all owe him an apology!!!
 
2012-09-11 12:20:22 PM
images1.wikia.nocookie.net

We did it. We defeated the invaders and left their ships in ruins.
Deep inside those ruins was a single stone that would change the course of our
history forever.
On the stone was etched a galactic map
and a single word more ancient than civilization itself:
Hiigara.
Our home.
The world was united and a massive colony ship was designed.
Construction would take 60 years.
It would demand new technologies, new industries and new sacrifices...
 
2012-09-11 12:20:25 PM

way south: /The one thing that earth has which you cant find elsewhere is a large slave labor population.


Except that it's reasonable to assume that any alien race that is technologically advanced enough to get here in the first place would also be fully capable of building a robotic labor force which would be able to outperform human beings in every way.
 
2012-09-11 12:21:05 PM
No one noticed the writer spelled Deanna's last name wrong?
 
2012-09-11 12:21:54 PM

buntz: And since it's an Independence Day thread, I need to repeat my BIGGEST gripe with the film:

Randy Quaid is all drunk and stupid because he claims to have been abducted. Everyone laughs at him. Even his children!

Then they get invaded by aliens!!!!

So he says "I'll fly a jet, because I'm looking for some payback from when they abducted me"

And everyone laughs and rolls their eyes at him!!

Why??? He claims to be abducted and now they're being attacked BY ALIENS!

They all owe him an apology!!!


Because SCIENCE scoffs at such an idea. Blame Neil Degrasse Tyson.

/seriously, when we get invaded, dude needs a kick in the balls
 
2012-09-11 12:22:34 PM
We should argue about the virus thing!

I'll be the mommy.
 
2012-09-11 12:23:37 PM

Quaker: way south: /The one thing that earth has which you cant find elsewhere is a large slave labor population.

Except that it's reasonable to assume that any alien race that is technologically advanced enough to get here in the first place would also be fully capable of building a robotic labor force which would be able to outperform human beings in every way.


But it's more fun to make people do it. For the drama.

/and the kicks
 
2012-09-11 12:24:18 PM

buntz: And since it's an Independence Day thread, I need to repeat my BIGGEST gripe with the film:

Randy Quaid



when i first got a DVD player, this was one of the first movies I watched with direcotr's commentary. I remember the director saying that one of the more consistent criticisms was from aviators, who were upset that Randy Quaid, in his single prop biplane (was it a biplane?) was shown flying alongside F-16s or whatever. The aviation community was butthurt because the top speed of Quaid's plane was, whatever, 180MPH but the cruising speed of the fighter jet was like, 300MPH (or whatever) and thus ZOMG THIS IS FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE I HATE THIS MOVIE FAAAAAAAAAAAAKE.

fanbois.
 
2012-09-11 12:27:43 PM

Antimatter: robbiex0r: Did Will Smith and Jeff Goldblum not destroy the mothership with the nuclear warhead?

Given the size of the ship, and the yield of the warhead, it doesn't make sense that they could have.


I guess I always thought it was a "blowing up the Death Star with a small missile" type chain reaction thing.
 
2012-09-11 12:30:11 PM

robohobo: Quaker: way south: /The one thing that earth has which you cant find elsewhere is a large slave labor population.

Except that it's reasonable to assume that any alien race that is technologically advanced enough to get here in the first place would also be fully capable of building a robotic labor force which would be able to outperform human beings in every way.

But it's more fun to make people do it. For the drama.

/and the kicks


Also, you have to buy the robots.
Humans are free for the taking.


I think the plot can be stupidly simple.
Id4-1, Aliens invade from space. We blow up the mothership.
Id4-2, some aliens landed. Take humans as slaves. We fight a ground war, blow up the base.
Id4-3 (you know it's inevitable) we take the fight to the aliens. Will Smith is the farking president.
 
2012-09-11 12:30:25 PM

rickythepenguin: buntz: And since it's an Independence Day thread, I need to repeat my BIGGEST gripe with the film:

Randy Quaid


when i first got a DVD player, this was one of the first movies I watched with direcotr's commentary. I remember the director saying that one of the more consistent criticisms was from aviators, who were upset that Randy Quaid, in his single prop biplane (was it a biplane?) was shown flying alongside F-16s or whatever. The aviation community was butthurt because the top speed of Quaid's plane was, whatever, 180MPH but the cruising speed of the fighter jet was like, 300MPH (or whatever) and thus ZOMG THIS IS FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE I HATE THIS MOVIE FAAAAAAAAAAAAKE.

fanbois.


I assumed he compensated for the differential with large quantities of methamphetamine.
 
2012-09-11 12:32:00 PM

rickythepenguin: Randy Quaid, in his single prop biplane (was it a biplane?) was shown flying alongside F-16s or whatever.


They gave him a fighter jet for the end battle, not his prop plane. Because he missile locked up so he had to fly into the ship.

Unless there's another scene somewhere else I don't remember when he flies alongside the jets
 
2012-09-11 12:34:05 PM

MagSeven: rickythepenguin: buntz: And since it's an Independence Day thread, I need to repeat my BIGGEST gripe with the film:

Randy Quaid


when i first got a DVD player, this was one of the first movies I watched with direcotr's commentary. I remember the director saying that one of the more consistent criticisms was from aviators, who were upset that Randy Quaid, in his single prop biplane (was it a biplane?) was shown flying alongside F-16s or whatever. The aviation community was butthurt because the top speed of Quaid's plane was, whatever, 180MPH but the cruising speed of the fighter jet was like, 300MPH (or whatever) and thus ZOMG THIS IS FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE I HATE THIS MOVIE FAAAAAAAAAAAAKE.

fanbois.

I assumed he compensated for the differential with large quantities of methamphetamine.


I assumed he was trying to get away from his taxes.
 
2012-09-11 12:36:46 PM
www.movievillains.com

still waiting for his sequel
 
2012-09-11 12:39:53 PM
Seriously? Why does every movie in existence suddenly need a sequel? Just let it go. This was a good movie ON ITS OWN. That's it, end of story. Come up with a new, fresh idea, or if you are going to come up with a recycled idea (Like Independence Day actually was), find a way to make it fun. Just don't do yet another sequel, especially since it's been this farking long. You're losing everything cultural that made the movie work at the time. It fit into a nice niche, and wouldn't really fly today anyway. Don't fark it up with a sequel, I beg of you.
 
2012-09-11 12:41:19 PM

buntz: Unless there's another scene somewhere else I don't remember when he flies alongside the jets



i don't remember either but i do recall the director saying people were upset about that part.

i do somewhat recall a scene in the final battle where the Earthlings send up all manner of aircraft to fight the aliens. bleh. who cares.
 
2012-09-11 12:43:50 PM

Antimatter: dittybopper: buntz: You know, just by killing the boss and blowing up his headquarters doesn't end the war

Actually, sometimes it does. I can think of numerous examples from history.

It works when you have a nation state willing to give up and order its forces to surrender. Not so effective when you are facing an enemy with nothing to lose and no rules governor what's acceptable in war. Once cannot describe how incredibly brutal a conflict like this would be in real life.


Who has nothing to lose in Star Wars? The Empire was held together strictly by force of will of Palpatine. It's the stormtroopers who have much to lose. They have no one to give them orders anymore: The Senate is (presumably) still dissolved from ANH, their boss is dead, and so is his presumed second-in-command.

What do the Imperial forces have to gain by continuing the fight? Especially since a democratic form of government could be rolled back into place on the model of the old republic that was only dissolved within living memory, at most 25 years earlier, perhaps with more protections against giving the executive too much power.
 
2012-09-11 12:44:47 PM
This guy would be most likely to figure out a story line for the sequel:

sheldoncooper.net
 
2012-09-11 12:45:55 PM

MagSeven: on Mahs.


+1
 
2012-09-11 12:47:36 PM
I'm now reminded of the Worldwar/Colonization/Homeward Bound series. Though by HB it was getting pretty shiatty. It was still awesome to see Earf drop down on Home to swing our collective dick in the Race's face.

/time for a re-read...a long, often repetitive re-read
 
2012-09-11 12:48:01 PM

dittybopper: What do the Imperial forces have to gain by continuing the fight?


I don't know. I just wanted to feel like a big man by asking the question.

/thanks for blowing out my candle just to make yours brighter, jerk
 
2012-09-11 12:48:02 PM

dittybopper: Who has nothing to lose in Star Wars?


I thought he was referring to Bin Laden and that whole Afghanistan clusterfark....
 
2012-09-11 12:49:25 PM

Grither: dittybopper: Who has nothing to lose in Star Wars?

I thought he was referring to Bin Laden and that whole Afghanistan clusterfark....


Mahs would be more NY/Jew....Mers would be more of a Will Smif pronunciation..
 
2012-09-11 12:50:11 PM

way south: robohobo: Quaker: way south: /The one thing that earth has which you cant find elsewhere is a large slave labor population.

Except that it's reasonable to assume that any alien race that is technologically advanced enough to get here in the first place would also be fully capable of building a robotic labor force which would be able to outperform human beings in every way.

But it's more fun to make people do it. For the drama.

/and the kicks

Also, you have to buy the robots.
Humans are free for the taking.


There would be an inherent cost in that the aliens would have to come to Earth, conquer humanity, and then maintain a presence to keep us working. Considering how much more efficient robots would be at labor in the first place (stronger, faster, smarter, more trustworthy, no need for extended rest periods, etc.), the cost-benefit analysis would still make a robot labor force a much more practical option.
 
2012-09-11 12:50:57 PM
The only good part about that movie.

playwithgender.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-09-11 12:53:33 PM
Go the Major League route and have the sequel just be a remake of the first film with Omar Epps in the Will Smith role.
 
2012-09-11 12:54:09 PM

Twigz221: The biggest complaint about the original was that the virus worked on the alien computers. This is commonly called one of the biggest plot holes. I agreed until I saw the deleted scene where Bren Spiners character explains to Jeff Goldblum that we only have computers thanks to the roswell crash. We reverse engineered all of our systems from the ships computer. So it would make sense that there would be come compatibility.

That's a rather important point. Why the hell did they delete it from the final cut?


Wouldn't matter, the aliens hijacked our satellites to use for their invasion timing (Why they would do that is another issue. It would be like sending an invasion force back to Roman days to attack a city with modern weapons and deciding to use their sundials rather than syncronizing your high tech watches) Therefore the aliens worked out the compatibility issue for Goldblum. And being a telepathic race information security would have been an alien concept so thats why a virus would work so well.

Presumably that oversite would be rectified in the new fleet making II a slaughter.

More importantly though these ships entering earths atmosphere should've destroyed the environment. The fact that it didnt would have to mean these ships had technology to cancel out their physical effects. When Smith and Goldblum brought them down they didn't save the planet like they think, they just killed it in a different way and at least denied it to our invaders.
 
2012-09-11 12:56:10 PM
As really shiatty a movie as it is, it could go down as one of the greats as long as they *never* make the sequel that involves more aliens and shiat blowing up.

Here's a much better idea: Why not do a limited TV series on how humanity coped with rebuilding?
 
2012-09-11 12:56:58 PM

Antimatter: robbiex0r: Did Will Smith and Jeff Goldblum not destroy the mothership with the nuclear warhead?

Given the size of the ship, and the yield of the warhead, it doesn't make sense that they could have.


Why not?

I mean, sure, if that's the only thing exploding. I find it hard to believe that with all the energy required to maintain the mothership, along with all the other stuff (including, presumably, a drive system capable of interstellar travel) that the explosion wouldn't be significantly larger than the yield of the weapon used alone would suggest.

Think about how much force a hand grenade has. Now, think about dropping one in the trunk of a car with a bunch of ammo in it and a full gas tank.
 
2012-09-11 12:59:42 PM

buntz: dittybopper: What do the Imperial forces have to gain by continuing the fight?

I don't know. I just wanted to feel like a big man by asking the question.

/thanks for blowing out my candle just to make yours brighter, jerk


Oh, it was my pleasure.
 
2012-09-11 12:59:46 PM

rickythepenguin: buntz: Unless there's another scene somewhere else I don't remember when he flies alongside the jets


i don't remember either but i do recall the director saying people were upset about that part.

i do somewhat recall a scene in the final battle where the Earthlings send up all manner of aircraft to fight the aliens. bleh. who cares.


I believe it was a changed scene. I've seen on some TV show a clip of the original ending, which has Quaid back in his crop-duster for the final moments of the battle. Not sure how he ends up in it, but he does.
 
2012-09-11 01:04:54 PM
Here's an idea for a sequel. One of the saucers crashes relatively unscathed, and Earth spends the next 20-50 years studying it, learning its technology, implementing it in our fighter jets, and getting it to work again... an entire city builds around the wreck in the process.

On the day they turn it back on, it signals them to come back, this time with their more humanlike overlords in tow. War breaks out again, a vapid pop star gets kidnapped, and the ship leaves with the city population to distract the invasion until Earth's ready to retaliate.

Put in a few tragedies, a young hotshot pilot, a cross-species love affair... you got a trilogy on your hands...

/too obscure?
 
2012-09-11 01:05:37 PM

Quaker: way south: robohobo: Quaker: way south: /The one thing that earth has which you cant find elsewhere is a large slave labor population.

Except that it's reasonable to assume that any alien race that is technologically advanced enough to get here in the first place would also be fully capable of building a robotic labor force which would be able to outperform human beings in every way.

But it's more fun to make people do it. For the drama.

/and the kicks

Also, you have to buy the robots.
Humans are free for the taking.

There would be an inherent cost in that the aliens would have to come to Earth, conquer humanity, and then maintain a presence to keep us working. Considering how much more efficient robots would be at labor in the first place (stronger, faster, smarter, more trustworthy, no need for extended rest periods, etc.), the cost-benefit analysis would still make a robot labor force a much more practical option.


You're assuming the aliens have a vested interest in keeping humans alive. They may take joy in just working us to death. A ' just for the lulz' situation. Don't think black slavery, where there was aan incentive to keep them ambulatory, just think 'disposable toy slavery'. If I have 4 or 5 billion whores, it's okay if I break double handfuls of them, cause hey, it's just for kicks. Also their telepathy, easy to control most folk.
 
2012-09-11 01:05:41 PM

Quaker: way south: robohobo: Quaker: way south: /The one thing that earth has which you cant find elsewhere is a large slave labor population.

Except that it's reasonable to assume that any alien race that is technologically advanced enough to get here in the first place would also be fully capable of building a robotic labor force which would be able to outperform human beings in every way.

But it's more fun to make people do it. For the drama.

/and the kicks

Also, you have to buy the robots.
Humans are free for the taking.

There would be an inherent cost in that the aliens would have to come to Earth, conquer humanity, and then maintain a presence to keep us working. Considering how much more efficient robots would be at labor in the first place (stronger, faster, smarter, more trustworthy, no need for extended rest periods, etc.), the cost-benefit analysis would still make a robot labor force a much more practical option.


let's assume that they already decided to come to the solar system. The cost difference between coming to earth or an outer moon is negligible.
The humans, if easily controlled (and they did demonstrate that they could control us, somewhat) are free and reliable native labor. the atmosphere provides a shirtsleeve working environment, and we already have mining equipment that we made for our own needs.

Pit this against the cost of alien laborers, alien robots, alien space suits and dealing with alien unions.
You've got many good reasons for choosing earth. Especially if the invasion itself is a cakewalk.
 
2012-09-11 01:10:56 PM
"Alternatively, poorer nations that had been largely ignored by the aliens during the initial extermination phase might rise up to seize their opportunity in the post-apocalyptic nightmare. Western nations, on their knees, are in thrall to them because their infrastructure no longer exists. World order changes totally. Unity should have been the result, but instead the people of Earth are even more fractured than they were before."

media.moddb.com

No, peace through Brotherhood
 
2012-09-11 01:11:51 PM

Eirik: rickythepenguin: buntz: Unless there's another scene somewhere else I don't remember when he flies alongside the jets


i don't remember either but i do recall the director saying people were upset about that part.

i do somewhat recall a scene in the final battle where the Earthlings send up all manner of aircraft to fight the aliens. bleh. who cares.

I believe it was a changed scene. I've seen on some TV show a clip of the original ending, which has Quaid back in his crop-duster for the final moments of the battle. Not sure how he ends up in it, but he does.


The original version of the script had a ragtag band of planes and pilots, including Quaid in his crop duster saving the world. They filmed it that way and test audiences blasted it so hard they reshot it to put Quaid in a fighter jet. Some of the DVD releases included the discarded crop duster scenes as extras.
 
2012-09-11 01:14:03 PM

Digitalstrange: The original version of the script had a ragtag band of planes and pilots, including Quaid in his crop duster saving the world. They filmed it that way and test audiences blasted it so hard they reshot it to put Quaid in a fighter jet. Some of the DVD releases included the discarded crop duster scenes as extras


Being thoroughly satisfied with ID4, I still want the option to see that movie.
 
2012-09-11 01:14:24 PM

way south: Id4-3 (you know it's inevitable) we take the fight to the aliens. Will Smith is farking the president.


Change the order of two words and it's a very different movie.
 
2012-09-11 01:14:42 PM
On the bright side, a sequel would have a reasonable chance of being better than the original (cuz it was terrible).
 
2012-09-11 01:15:42 PM
Seems to me they are fresh out of alcoholic crop dusting pilots.
 
2012-09-11 01:16:49 PM
The biggest problem with this movie(which is a guilty pleasure, as it is for most who like it) is the god-awful special effects. Most of that shiat holds up worse than Plan 9, especially on a flatsie.
 
2012-09-11 01:17:09 PM
The sequel is pretty straightforward: Invader colony ships start to arrive and we have to fight them off. The subplot is not so straightforward: Do we have the right to exterminate a species that deserves to be exterminated? Then to complicate things, an assassin species that the invaders have ticked off decide it's their right to exterminate them. So do we protect the few remaining Invaders or quietly cheer on the assassins?
 
2012-09-11 01:17:54 PM

padraig: loonatic112358: FirstNationalBastard: Well, first, wouldn't the people of Earf already be prepared for another invasion?

Not so much, if there was a second wave closely follwing the first, the earf would be easier to take down

Am I the only to remember them saying at one point, that the whole alien population just jumped from planet to planet, and therefore were all here ? Or am I mistaking it with an other movie ?


Yes, any sequel would either have to be about dealing with the remaining survivors of the fleet (possibly with some minor assistance from scout ships like the ones that kept up with Earth that would now be scouting the next target) or rewrite what was understood in the first film. This Fleet was supposed to be their entire race.
 
2012-09-11 01:19:33 PM

Coelacanth: : Do we have the right to exterminate a species that deserves to be exterminated? Then to complicate things, an assassin species that the invaders have ticked off decide it's their right to exterminate them. So do we protect the few remaining Invaders or quietly cheer on the assassins?


Of course we do. They threw the first punch. And if someone can lampshade them better than us, more power to them. Us or them, it's pretty simple. No quietly cheering on, we flat out help the fark out of them. And then take out them too, steal their tech. It's a cold universe, out there.
 
2012-09-11 01:19:57 PM

robohobo: MagSeven: I just pretend that District 9 is the sequel. Just like I pretend the Terminator movies are a prequel to The Matrix.

I've long thought that the Terminator films were Matrix prequels.

/poor sarah connor. no way cancer beat her. she'd beat cancer with a farking handgun


and Red Dawn is a sequel to Dirty Dancing
 
2012-09-11 01:24:47 PM

Coelacanth: Do we have the right to exterminate a species that deserves to be exterminated? Then to complicate things, an assassin species that the invaders have ticked off decide it's their right to exterminate them. So do we protect the few remaining Invaders or quietly cheer on the assassins?


Who is to judge what is right and what is wrong? Great and powerful foes surround us; unknown miscreants gnaw at us from within. We are threatened with total annihilation. In days such as these we can afford no luxury of morality.

Some may question your right to destroy ten billion people. But those who understand realise that you have no right to let them live.
 
2012-09-11 01:28:16 PM

FirstNationalBastard: loonatic112358: FirstNationalBastard: Well, first, wouldn't the people of Earf already be prepared for another invasion?

Not so much, if there was a second wave closely follwing the first, the earf would be easier to take down

Ah, but Earf would find a way to repel the invasion.


Our macbooks are more powerful.
 
2012-09-11 01:29:33 PM

green4mice: robohobo: MagSeven: I just pretend that District 9 is the sequel. Just like I pretend the Terminator movies are a prequel to The Matrix.

I've long thought that the Terminator films were Matrix prequels.

/poor sarah connor. no way cancer beat her. she'd beat cancer with a farking handgun

and Red Dawn is a sequel to Dirty Dancing


Which was a prequel to Point Break.
 
2012-09-11 01:30:09 PM

Girion47: The only good part about that movie.

[playwithgender.files.wordpress.com image 575x310]


Too bad she aged like a rose. Beautiful for a short period, then all wilted and gross for the rest of eternity.

If only the movie went for a hard R.. Damn you PG-13 and your no-nudity!!
 
2012-09-11 01:30:45 PM

Bendal: loonatic112358: FirstNationalBastard: Well, first, wouldn't the people of Earf already be prepared for another invasion?

Not so much, if there was a second wave closely follwing the first, the earf would be easier to take down

It's doubtful that another mother ship would be following the path the first one was taking. It's clear from ID that the aliens landed on a planet and strip mined it for the resources, then left for the next one when it was useless. A second ship following the first one would not find untouched planets to consume, so they would take another path through the galaxy. They also wouldn't be close by for the same reason; planets with resources aren't all that common, so they will spread out.

As for the alien ships on Earth after the movie ended, don't forget the hordes of fighters each one disgorged. Each fighter had at least one pilot; did the defenders destroy every single one? It appeared from the ones we saw that the interior of those ships almost certainly was ruined by the feedback and explosion from the main weapon; we see flames and smoke from all over the ships. Plus the impact of megatons of ship crashing into the planet can't be good for the inhabitants either.


Maybe we can take some of their crashed pilots and teach them to love and learn like humans. Then set them on a path of vengeance against the swarm that abandoned them.
 
2012-09-11 01:30:59 PM
Earf.

Kwisis on two Earf's

when Earf's Korride

Earf Twoo

Journey to the Center of the Earf.

Earf the Final Frontier

Earf First (second) Contact.
 
2012-09-11 01:39:59 PM

DarkPascual: Who is to judge what is right and what is wrong?


www.internationalhero.co.uk
 
2012-09-11 01:45:11 PM

meanmutton: NeoCortex42: Disposable Rob: That article officially thought more about consequnces of the plot than Dean Devlin ever did.

Speaking of Dean Devlin movies, I want my Stargate sequel. They kept kicking around the idea of a direct sequel to the movie, ignoring SG-1. I would love to see what they had planned for that.

They did three movies, three TV series (totaling nearly 400 episodes), and an animated series (26 episodes). I think they've explored the Stargate universe pretty well, frankly.


They changed so much of the mythos in the transition from film to TV, that the original creators of the movie had been wanting to do a proper sequel film for a long time. I don't see it ever happening, but I think it would be pretty cool.
 
2012-09-11 01:46:43 PM

Strategeryz0r: Girion47: The only good part about that movie.

[playwithgender.files.wordpress.com image 575x310]

Too bad she aged like a rose. Beautiful for a short period, then all wilted and gross for the rest of eternity.

If only the movie went for a hard R.. Damn you PG-13 and your no-nudity!!


you owe me a keyboard. so funnay.
 
2012-09-11 01:52:41 PM
Why do I get the distinct feeling the author sits around wondering how, exactly, can sparkly vampires really be considered vampires?
 
2012-09-11 01:54:38 PM
A proper sequel should have been made 98/99 to still preserve the "This is our reality" feel. Anything now would be an alternate reality compared to ours. City's were rebuilt most likely different as a result of the movie. The Alien technology would be part of everything, force fields on the city's and all that. The Air Force would have Lazers on all space planes, as we wait for them to return. The sequel would have to be set in the time frame right after the attacks to preserve that "This is us" feeling.
 
2012-09-11 02:03:34 PM

liam76: You could argue that the world would be better wihtou all those things we find in a city, but the sudden removal of those would lead to a lot of problems for a few years. Financial ond central govt grinding to a halt could very easily lead to the breakdown of society.


That's what they want you to believe.

Seriously, though... I don't think it would be hard to re-establish central government. Politicians and bureaucrats are about the easiest people to replace. As for financial centers, most banks decentralize their data; NYC HQ buildings are great for execs, but the meat of the banking business is in data centers in the heartland.

ThreadSinger: The details of the movie are a little fuzzy at this point, but I think the total destruction of major cities would have been near complete by the end of the movie. They do mention something about worldwide destruction in 48 or 72 hours, I can't recall. At that level of devastation you probably don't have much infrastructure left nationally, if not globally, aside from possibly power, water, food, sewer, communications, roads, and other necessities at the small-town level. At the local level, farmers and small communities can probably pull through, but like any immediate post-apocalyptic scenario, you now have hordes of survivors deprived of food, shelter, and with no background in survival skills (we do live in the information age), and no system of elected government, law enforcement, etc, aside from whatever areas have surviving and coherent military presence.

If the aliens had invaded, say, 1850's USA, then the chaos would probably be a lot less. But in our-technology dependant age, we've become too dependant on our tools and much would be lost in the destruction of only major cities, not everything else. Even if survivors across the US (or any other nation) banded together, the truth is, we've used up so many resources globally that our civilization would never recover.


I'm still not buying it. Outside of a few strategic cities, most cities aren't centers of industry; but even Detroit or Houston, for example, with their industrial capacity and refineries are not all that centralized... wipe out the skyscrapers, and you've missed 95% of what enables those key resources.

Again, I don't think you'd lose much that couldn't be recovered quickly. In fact, without cities to support, your logistics issues become far simpler (no need to ship tons of product into cities on a daily basis).
 
2012-09-11 02:06:04 PM

robohobo: Of course we do. They threw the first punch. And if someone can lampshade them better than us, more power to them. Us or them, it's pretty simple. No quietly cheering on, we flat out help the fark out of them. And then take out them too, steal their tech. It's a cold universe, out there.


DarkPascual: Who is to judge what is right and what is wrong? Great and powerful foes surround us; unknown miscreants gnaw at us from within. We are threatened with total annihilation. In days such as these we can afford no luxury of morality.

Some may question your right to destroy ten billion people. But those who understand realise that you have no right to let them live.



Of course one thing you can do is use the first movie for a basis for several movies on how Earth builds a galactic empire by liberating oppressed alien races.
 
2012-09-11 02:06:09 PM

shifter_: loonatic112358: FirstNationalBastard: Ah, but Earf would find a way to repel the invasion.

with what resources, they sort of used up most of what they had in the end there, if the 2nd fleet was within a year or two of the first, they'd find an earth still struggling to repair itself

decimated population, many military installations gone, much of the manufacturing capacity gone, mind you Detroit should still be ok, as the author points out a very cold winter from the smoking ruins of the crashed ships,

You could maybe do a survival and rebuild series off that, ending with the earflings getting off this rock to find out what's out there

Except there is no second wave..... the president clearly said, after being in telepathic link, that it was thier entire society, moving from one location to the next..... We doomed yet another species to extinction, which we have actually been quite good at for a while! A broader idea would be survivors of the alien crash fighting earth forces in ground battles.


Easy ways around that. Hive mind aliens so anyone not part of their hive is not their society. Could be plenty of other groups out there.

It also doesn't make much sense for there to only be one mother ship. Keeping with the bug/hive mind idea, bugs can swarm and split their colonies so not far fetched to think there would be more out there. Since these are intelligent beings it is more reasonable to assume they sent the soldiers of the group in to take out the only threat in the system while the workers and/or more fighters would come in later or have already started working elsewhere in system to gather resources.
 
2012-09-11 02:09:19 PM

thecpt: Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: That in itself is a plot hole. The Roswell Crash was in 1948. The movie was set almost 50 years later. Plenty of time for the aliens to improve their computers. And then there's how "reverse engineered" is never as good as the original.

Maybe it was a standard platform that was designated to be left alone? You wouldn't want incompatible systems when you could be light years apart, and might not see each other for 50 years.


That's my thought as well. It was a combination of the requirements for some EXTREMELY standardized systems, relying on over-automated systems due to being developed by a hivemind, and a "it's good enough, we'll patch it later" attitude on a particulary vunerable system.
 
2012-09-11 02:09:23 PM

LesserEvil: MagSeven: The alien's anitvirus auto-updated?

They were using McAfee, and the update still can't identify the virus.

In other news, article writers who need to make a deadline sometimes overthink "popcorn" movies in an effort to publish material on geek sites.

I would like to comment on something: Destroying 15 major cities would have far less impact on the human race than you might imagine. Far more infrastructure exists outside of those cities. Food production, industry, power plants... none of those are found major cities. Banks, lawyers, hipsters (lots of hipsters) live in cities, and I think we can all agree the world might even be a better place without all that.

Can anybody on Fark name something CRITICAL to the human race that might have been destroyed by these aliens in one of those 15 cities?

If anything, the Earth might benefit from the population reduction.


The aliens destroyed NORAD IIRC, where most of the President's cabinet had gone
 
2012-09-11 02:09:34 PM

Honest Bender: [images1.wikia.nocookie.net image 513x747]

We did it. We defeated the invaders and left their ships in ruins.
Deep inside those ruins was a single stone that would change the course of our
history forever.
On the stone was etched a galactic map
and a single word more ancient than civilization itself:
Hiigara.
Our home.
The world was united and a massive colony ship was designed.
Construction would take 60 years.
It would demand new technologies, new industries and new sacrifices...


I played that game once in a lan party. I was unable to defeat my friends but , I did bog theirs systems down and lag them out by sending them hundreds of scout ships.
 
2012-09-11 02:12:16 PM

Son of Thunder: dittybopper: Now, could one person accomplish that in 24 hours? Nope.

Life.. uh, um... life... uh... Finds A Way.


you'll be pleased to know that I read that in Jeff's voice.
 
2012-09-11 02:14:26 PM

LesserEvil: liam76: You could argue that the world would be better wihtou all those things we find in a city, but the sudden removal of those would lead to a lot of problems for a few years. Financial ond central govt grinding to a halt could very easily lead to the breakdown of society.

That's what they want you to believe.

Seriously, though... I don't think it would be hard to re-establish central government. Politicians and bureaucrats are about the easiest people to replace.


I agree. The problem is what the military is going to do in the interim. What are communities that have no/little food going to do when it runs out?



As for financial centers, most banks decentralize their data; NYC HQ buildings are great for execs, but the meat of the banking business is in data centers in the heartland

Yeah, but see above. Without thos eexecs that money isn't goping anywhere.

/replace money with any other "good" that has a central hub in those cities.
 
2012-09-11 02:16:56 PM

buntz: rickythepenguin: Randy Quaid, in his single prop biplane (was it a biplane?) was shown flying alongside F-16s or whatever.

They gave him a fighter jet for the end battle, not his prop plane. Because he missile locked up so he had to fly into the ship.

Unless there's another scene somewhere else I don't remember when he flies alongside the jets


If I remember correctly, the prop plane ending was an alternate scene that they actually filmed and created effects for. Quaid's character had a missile strapped to his crop duster for a suicide run.
 
2012-09-11 02:26:31 PM

Rwa2play: The aliens destroyed NORAD IIRC, where most of the President's cabinet had gone


Sooo... a bunch of political appointees who rarely know anything about the departments they head are gone? What's the problem there? Some Director or Assistant Director would take over their agency.

Why do we place so much importance on individuals, particularly politicians?


liam76: As for financial centers, most banks decentralize their data; NYC HQ buildings are great for execs, but the meat of the banking business is in data centers in the heartland

Yeah, but see above. Without thos eexecs that money isn't goping anywhere.

/replace money with any other "good" that has a central hub in those cities.


Well, for starters, you aren't getting all of the execs in one shot, anyway. Many will be based in regional offices (and move up to take control of the company). It won't be smooth, sure, but there will be continuity. Likewise, while large capital monetary moves would be temporarily stymied, I doubt there would be much disruption to daily cash transfers through ATMs and such.... the data centers would be untouched, located in the middle of BFE as most are.

Remember, as a society, we've decentralized a lot of critical "virtual" infrastructure because we spent 40 years in a cold war, worrying about nuclear war destroying those same cities the aliens did in ID4. Cites are the great misidrection.... even military bases are supported by supply depots in the middle of nowhere. There have always been recovery plans for the possibility that all of our cities were wiped out, ID4-style.

Europe and Japan (and maybe India) would probably have the biggest loss from a tech perspective. The rest of the world, not so much.
 
2012-09-11 02:28:24 PM
A lot of overthinking going on. It's just an Alien Invasion movie, with several nods to other films. Just using the Pal War Of The Worlds as an example: Squishy tentacle aliens, useless atomic/nuclear bombardment, done in by a "bug", making the initial contact a media event, which was in the original book. It's just a fun movie, and that's all.
 
2012-09-11 02:36:13 PM
I hope the aliens have antivirus software installed this time.
 
2012-09-11 02:48:30 PM

ukexpat: I hope the aliens have antivirus software installed this time.


Sure they do... they were surfing some tenticle porn and this popped up:

2.bp.blogspot.com


...so of course, they installed it. They should be all set now for the next attempt to invade Earf.
 
2012-09-11 03:49:41 PM

dittybopper: Antimatter: robbiex0r: Did Will Smith and Jeff Goldblum not destroy the mothership with the nuclear warhead?

Given the size of the ship, and the yield of the warhead, it doesn't make sense that they could have.

Why not?

I mean, sure, if that's the only thing exploding. I find it hard to believe that with all the energy required to maintain the mothership, along with all the other stuff (including, presumably, a drive system capable of interstellar travel) that the explosion wouldn't be significantly larger than the yield of the weapon used alone would suggest.

Think about how much force a hand grenade has. Now, think about dropping one in the trunk of a car with a bunch of ammo in it and a full gas tank.


Your assuming any of that was stored anywhere near the troop/military staging area is. Given they weren't using any sort of conventional explosives in their ships, what's going to massively explode? the ship is a quarter the size of the moon, it's got to have a few trillion tons of metal in it, inducing who knows how many decks between where the nuke was and where the main reactors are.

I mean hell, lets look at what it could have fired. the only two, that I know of off hand, nuclear air to air missles used by the airforce are the .25 kiloton Falcon, and the 1.5 kiloton Genie. Neither could have taken out something that size unless they got extremely lucky. As it they somehow managed to take out the main reactors/ energy systems.

Of course, we then have the problem of trillions of tons of metal raining down upon the earth. That alone could have killed us all.
 
2012-09-11 03:50:58 PM

madcan34: Besides the fact that the first one was a total piece O' shiat?


DONE
 
2012-09-11 03:56:19 PM

JimmyFartpants: The sequel should start literally start 2 minutes where the last one left off.

You really think all of those aliens inside those huge ships where killed when they crashed?

Here's how ID2 starts: Will Smith and Bill Pullman light up those cigars all happy and victorious like. Then they hear a rumbling noise coming from the horizon. They look up only to see a massive alien hoard emerging from the downed spacecraft and charging toward them like the English army in Braveheart.

The cigar falls out of Will Smiths mouth, and we get a dolly-zoom on his face which looks like this:
[www.quietofthematinee.com image 620x268]


Dear god ... I want to see this.
 
2012-09-11 03:56:38 PM

Disposable Rob: thecpt: Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: That in itself is a plot hole. The Roswell Crash was in 1948. The movie was set almost 50 years later. Plenty of time for the aliens to improve their computers. And then there's how "reverse engineered" is never as good as the original.

Maybe it was a standard platform that was designated to be left alone? You wouldn't want incompatible systems when you could be light years apart, and might not see each other for 50 years.

That's my thought as well. It was a combination of the requirements for some EXTREMELY standardized systems, relying on over-automated systems due to being developed by a hivemind, and a "it's good enough, we'll patch it later" attitude on a particulary vunerable system.


I'd also argue that it's quite difficult to advance you tech when your stuck on a spaceship with set systems, and no resources to do further R&D.
 
2012-09-11 04:04:30 PM

NeoCortex42: Speaking of Dean Devlin movies, I want my Stargate sequel.


Rumor has it that Independence day was originally written as a sequel to Stargate.
 
2012-09-11 04:09:48 PM

Antimatter: Your assuming any of that was stored anywhere near the troop/military staging area is. Given they weren't using any sort of conventional explosives in their ships, what's going to massively explode? the ship is a quarter the size of the moon, it's got to have a few trillion tons of metal in it, inducing who knows how many decks between where the nuke was and where the main reactors are.

I mean hell, lets look at what it could have fired. the only two, that I know of off hand, nuclear air to air missles used by the airforce are the .25 kiloton Falcon, and the 1.5 kiloton Genie. Neither could have taken out something that size unless they got extremely lucky. As it they somehow managed to take out the main reactors/ energy systems.


Neither missile was in evidence. For all we know, given it's size, it could have been a 500 kt warhead slapped on to a rocket motor, ginned up at the last minute.

Plus, we don't know what sort of energy systems they use, what sort of flammables might be on the mother ship, and I would assume that any thing that big would require an enormous energy source. For all we know, they detonated that right below the main deuterium storage tanks. Or perhaps the initial explosion shut off power to the magnetic confinement system of their fusion reactor(s). Who knows?

Of course, we then have the problem of trillions of tons of metal raining down upon the earth. That alone could have killed us all.


Probably. Certainly it wouldn't have been good. Probably also be a lot of fallout.
 
2012-09-11 04:18:51 PM

robohobo: I'm now reminded of the Worldwar/Colonization/Homeward Bound series. Though by HB it was getting pretty shiatty. It was still awesome to see Earf drop down on Home to swing our collective dick in the Race's face.

/time for a re-read...a long, often repetitive re-read


Yeah, what was up with the whole Columbo-lizard sub-plot?
 
2012-09-11 04:26:43 PM

Coelacanth: The sequel is pretty straightforward: Invader colony ships start to arrive and we have to fight them off. The subplot is not so straightforward: Do we have the right to exterminate a species that deserves to be exterminated? Then to complicate things, an assassin species that the invaders have ticked off decide it's their right to exterminate them. So do we protect the few remaining Invaders or quietly cheer on the assassins?


Cheer and offer to hold the assassin's coat while he does the killing.
 
2012-09-11 04:37:48 PM

Zarquon's Flat Tire: sprag: OtherLittleGuy: ID4

What the hell does that "abbreviation" mean, anyway? People kept trying to explain that it was "independence day" and that's on July 4, so it "makes sense", but I've never been really satisfied with that answer (because it _doesn't_ make any more sense than calling Groundhog Day "GD2" and that's patently stupid)

It's catchier than just ID. It's all just marketing. It makes sense because it makes money.


So would the sequel be ID4-2? ID5?
 
2012-09-11 04:40:46 PM

dittybopper: Antimatter: Your assuming any of that was stored anywhere near the troop/military staging area is. Given they weren't using any sort of conventional explosives in their ships, what's going to massively explode? the ship is a quarter the size of the moon, it's got to have a few trillion tons of metal in it, inducing who knows how many decks between where the nuke was and where the main reactors are.

I mean hell, lets look at what it could have fired. the only two, that I know of off hand, nuclear air to air missles used by the airforce are the .25 kiloton Falcon, and the 1.5 kiloton Genie. Neither could have taken out something that size unless they got extremely lucky. As it they somehow managed to take out the main reactors/ energy systems.

Neither missile was in evidence. For all we know, given it's size, it could have been a 500 kt warhead slapped on to a rocket motor, ginned up at the last minute.

Plus, we don't know what sort of energy systems they use, what sort of flammables might be on the mother ship, and I would assume that any thing that big would require an enormous energy source. For all we know, they detonated that right below the main deuterium storage tanks. Or perhaps the initial explosion shut off power to the magnetic confinement system of their fusion reactor(s). Who knows?

Of course, we then have the problem of trillions of tons of metal raining down upon the earth. That alone could have killed us all.

Probably. Certainly it wouldn't have been good. Probably also be a lot of fallout.


A fusion reactor doesn't explode with much force - they only work when in containment. Once containment fails they stop making power. I remember reading somewhere that a gigwatt reactor in worst case scenario would explode with the force of a stick of dynamite. As soon as confinement starts to break down they stop creating excess heat and reactions would've stopped long before the confinement fields decayed to the point that the plasma can touch the containment walls. That's why they're the wonder technology of our day - able to produce lots of power and be extremely safe in case of failure. We even have most of the mass in our solar system tied up in a fusion reactor and it's naturally stable enough to allow life to evolve over 4 billion years in front of it.

I think it's more plausible that they were using antimatter and the nuke detonating on the bridge of the ship could've caused a loss of containment of that. That could generate an explosion big enough to destroy the ship if you had several thousand tons of antimatter suddenly released.

Either way an object 1/4 the size of the moon, and assuming a mostly empty structure where only 1% of the volume is mass, we can assume that it's mass equals to about .0025% of the mass of the moon, which itself is 7.35x10^22 kg. I could be butchering the numbers since I'm doing this quickly at work, but that gives us an object falling to earth with orbital velocity and bigger than anything the Earf's seen since the heavy bombardment period. An object going 16,000 MPH and big enough to hit the surface while still standing hundreds of miles out into space and weighs 91,875,000,000,000,000 tons . The aliens are the least of our worries.
 
2012-09-11 04:42:22 PM

robohobo: I'm now reminded of the Worldwar/Colonization/Homeward Bound series. Though by HB it was getting pretty shiatty. It was still awesome to see Earf drop down on Home to swing our collective dick in the Race's face.

/time for a re-read...a long, often repetitive re-read


You just described most of Turtledove's series. The man has to not only make a point, but make it a minimum of 3 times per book, in every book of the series. Yes, we get it, in a world where the USA and CSA are at war with each other a lot, US tobacco sucks. Got it. Dudes with pale skin get sunburn. Understood. If he didn't constantly repeat himself, he could write the series in about a third of the time.
 
2012-09-11 04:45:18 PM

dittybopper: Antimatter: Your assuming any of that was stored anywhere near the troop/military staging area is. Given they weren't using any sort of conventional explosives in their ships, what's going to massively explode? the ship is a quarter the size of the moon, it's got to have a few trillion tons of metal in it, inducing who knows how many decks between where the nuke was and where the main reactors are.

I mean hell, lets look at what it could have fired. the only two, that I know of off hand, nuclear air to air missles used by the airforce are the .25 kiloton Falcon, and the 1.5 kiloton Genie. Neither could have taken out something that size unless they got extremely lucky. As it they somehow managed to take out the main reactors/ energy systems.

Neither missile was in evidence. For all we know, given it's size, it could have been a 500 kt warhead slapped on to a rocket motor, ginned up at the last minute.

Plus, we don't know what sort of energy systems they use, what sort of flammables might be on the mother ship, and I would assume that any thing that big would require an enormous energy source. For all we know, they detonated that right below the main deuterium storage tanks. Or perhaps the initial explosion shut off power to the magnetic confinement system of their fusion reactor(s). Who knows?

Of course, we then have the problem of trillions of tons of metal raining down upon the earth. That alone could have killed us all.

Probably. Certainly it wouldn't have been good. Probably also be a lot of fallout.


I'm going with the producers and writers had no idea what the yield of your average nuke is, and never considered the size of the ship or what would happen if you detonated a bomb in it. It was a plot device.
 
2012-09-11 04:49:06 PM

SuperChuck: Zarquon's Flat Tire: sprag: OtherLittleGuy: ID4

What the hell does that "abbreviation" mean, anyway? People kept trying to explain that it was "independence day" and that's on July 4, so it "makes sense", but I've never been really satisfied with that answer (because it _doesn't_ make any more sense than calling Groundhog Day "GD2" and that's patently stupid)

It's catchier than just ID. It's all just marketing. It makes sense because it makes money.

So would the sequel be ID4-2? ID5?


Earf2
 
2012-09-11 04:49:34 PM

ThreadSinger: I enjoyed this movie when it came out, but alas my science background has deepened considerably since then, and I have a hard time suspending the disbelief that when an object one quarter the size of the moon detonates in near-Earth orbit, much of the surface will remain undamaged..


I always wondered about that too... there should be huge football stadium sized chunks of metal raining down on the earth (earf) for several days after the explosion of the mothership, taking out whole chunks of cities, causing tsunamis, and making the world's population a whole lot smaller overall.

On the other hand, the descendants of the 2 - 3 billion or so people left will enjoy an unprecedented age of science and technology, seeing as the smaller ships were pretty much evenly distributed around the planet. Every continent will have access to the goodies. Starships, anti-gravity (we finally get our flying cars), new metals and alloys, energy sources powerful enough to push ships through space (no more fossil fuels)... and almost every religion on earf being proven full of sh*t.

We'd have our own solar system colonized in less than 100 years, nearby stars in double that. And as a side effect, maybe we'd stop fighting each other so goddamn much now that we realize there are plenty of other species out there who will not hesitate to kick our ass.
 
2012-09-11 04:58:16 PM
Has anyone noticed that there are tiny, random splotches in the background image on all of Den of Geek's pages?
 
2012-09-11 05:02:47 PM
A few things I thought of concerning an ID sequel:

1. Toxic and radioactive materials from the spaceships. A several mile long spacecraft probably doesn't run on clean energy, and the burning materials might have some other crap not healthy for human (or aliens).

2. Because of its proximity to the finale (and lack of it to other possible surviving cities) the world economy being devastated, its travel know-how and a large amount of huge, empty buildings, Las Vegas would probably be the new US capital and UN headquarters. With all its kitsch to old, long-gone places like Paris, Rome, NY and Cairo, probably fitting. (BTW, ever notice there's no casino that has a D.C. motif?)

3. Just how did the folks in Africa (or wherever the jungle scene was) bring down that ship? Not exactly a plethora of jet aircraft on the continent if you knock around Egypt and South Africa. SCUD? Don't think the average RPG-7 or technical with an AA gun has the range or power to hit that energy gun in the middle of the ship.

4. Alien survivor resistance. Barring a ship withdrawing from human contact (floating over the middle of the oceans or Antarctica) they likely don't have food and supplies for a long entrenched fight. Also diseases become a factor; the main ship might have offered labs or medical facilities to deal with such problems.

5. Co-operation. The EU, Israelis, Japanese, Chinese and Russians may know that the US did have alien tech for decades. Might be a point of contention. Also, if a developing third world country (one with a decent amount of brains -- Pakistan or India, a former Soviet republic, Brazil, Saudi Arabia, Iran) came into a treasure trove of working alien tech, would they share it, use it to take advantage of neighbors or the surviving populace at large?
 
2012-09-11 05:06:44 PM

Antimatter: robbiex0r: Did Will Smith and Jeff Goldblum not destroy the mothership with the nuclear warhead?

Given the size of the ship, and the yield of the warhead, it doesn't make sense that they could have.


Y'r fergettin that the nuke was asploded inside a closed space, nearly at the center.
T'would do a lot more damage than if it were asploded from outside...
 
2012-09-11 05:10:38 PM

Zarquon's Flat Tire: SuperChuck: Zarquon's Flat Tire: sprag: OtherLittleGuy: ID4

What the hell does that "abbreviation" mean, anyway? People kept trying to explain that it was "independence day" and that's on July 4, so it "makes sense", but I've never been really satisfied with that answer (because it _doesn't_ make any more sense than calling Groundhog Day "GD2" and that's patently stupid)

It's catchier than just ID. It's all just marketing. It makes sense because it makes money.

So would the sequel be ID4-2? ID5?

Earf2


Only if they get Tim Curry.
 
2012-09-11 05:17:14 PM

rewind2846: Antimatter: robbiex0r: Did Will Smith and Jeff Goldblum not destroy the mothership with the nuclear warhead?

Given the size of the ship, and the yield of the warhead, it doesn't make sense that they could have.

Y'r fergettin that the nuke was asploded inside a closed space, nearly at the center.
T'would do a lot more damage than if it were asploded from outside...


A weapon that size on an object one quarter of the size of the moon would do nothing at all.

A weapon that size detonating in the centre of a spaceship one quarter the size of the moon, powered by (presumably) a highly volatile energy source which just lost containment, well, that just might do something...

/I know, I know, it's a movie, still fun to nitpick though
//Also, why would you need fighters in an era of FTL communications?
///Earth is still farked
 
2012-09-11 05:20:10 PM

Twigz221: The biggest complaint about the original was that the virus worked on the alien computers. This is commonly called one of the biggest plot holes. I agreed until I saw the deleted scene where Bren Spiners character explains to Jeff Goldblum that we only have computers thanks to the roswell crash. We reverse engineered all of our systems from the ships computer. So it would make sense that there would be come compatibility.

That's a rather important point. Why the hell did they delete it from the final cut?


Because it was stupid and ahistorical!?
 
2012-09-11 05:29:25 PM

unchellmatt: Interesting that they leave out one major plot issue with the FIRST one: There's zero reason for the big bad aliens to attack the Earth for the reasons given. There is, readily available, far more of the very resources the aliens were after, ripe for the plucking with no messy need for invasion, even before you reach Jupiter. And we're talking about several Earth's worth of water, oxygen, minerals, etc, just sitting out there.


This right here.

And why bother with an invasion when you could just gas the whole planet? Or simply sit in orbit and throw big rocks at us? 

Alien invasion movies are almost always inherently silly.
 
2012-09-11 05:30:36 PM
Here's an idea -

Turn the sequel into an adaptation of Greg Bear's Anvil of Stars
 
2012-09-11 05:31:30 PM

SuperChuck: Zarquon's Flat Tire: sprag: OtherLittleGuy: ID4

What the hell does that "abbreviation" mean, anyway? People kept trying to explain that it was "independence day" and that's on July 4, so it "makes sense", but I've never been really satisfied with that answer (because it _doesn't_ make any more sense than calling Groundhog Day "GD2" and that's patently stupid)

It's catchier than just ID. It's all just marketing. It makes sense because it makes money.

So would the sequel be ID4-2? ID5?


Labor Day
 
2012-09-11 05:41:32 PM

rewind2846: and almost every religion on earf being proven full of sh*t.


Hinduism and Islam would be fine (probably Buddhism too).

"Allah, Lord of the Worlds"
 
2012-09-11 06:26:50 PM
Given the nature of ID4 as a big explosion blockbuster, it seems unlikely a gritty small scale guerrilla war cleaning up the remaining aliens would work (and plus it is probably too late for any close continuity with all the actors aging in the interim). You could maybe do this as a TV series - something similar to the 90s? era "War of the Worlds", but difficult to see it as a film sequel in this mode.

You could see a second wave of aliens coming a couple of decades later - it seems evolutionary unlikely the aliens would all go in one ship - sooner or later they would hit a problem planet and then you have extinction, more likely at each planet they create one or more extra "swarms" of similar motherships, with earth technology having jumped forwards but not enough to protect earth until Jeff Goldblum suddenly comes up with the brilliant idea of installing OS X on the alien hardware, and suddenly the aliens surrender rather than go up against Apple, Inc.

The problem with this variant is it is hard to see how it won't all just be retreading the same territory - given the first film nearly destroys the world, and blows up every major global iconic building, there is little scope for one-upping the previous film, and the aliens were fairly one dimensional so there doesn't seem an easy route to make them come back as a different sort of threat - and if you did, it would seem better to have a new film instead of a sequel.

You could go further into the future and have humans as a interstellar travelling civilization that re-encounters these aliens, but it just seems limiting - the amount of carry over from the first film is barely going to be anything, but it presumably ties down the opposing aliens, so again why not do a completely new film with a similar story?
 
2012-09-11 06:40:36 PM

Snapper Carr: Here's an idea -

Turn the sequel into an adaptation of Greg Bear's Anvil of Stars


/seconded
 
2012-09-11 06:59:19 PM

MadMattressMack: Either way an object 1/4 the size of the moon, and assuming a mostly empty structure where only 1% of the volume is mass, we can assume that it's mass equals to about .0025% of the mass of the moon, which itself is 7.35x10^22 kg. I could be butchering the numbers since I'm doing this quickly at work, but that gives us an object falling to earth with orbital velocity and bigger than anything the Earf's seen since the heavy bombardment period. An object going 16,000 MPH and big enough to hit the surface while still standing hundreds of miles out into space and weighs 91,875,000,000,000,000 tons . The aliens are the least of our worries.


That's really neat and I love these kinds of thought experiments.

A couple of challenges to your assumptions: The 'mother ship' was in orbit around Earth, and not heading toward Earth with an asteroid-like velocity ("It's decelerating", to quote early in the film). So a destroyed ship would not 'stop dead' and fall into Earth, it would continue more or less in orbit, plus/minus the expanding sphere of debris, some of which would be heading toward the Earth, most of it away from Earth. Would the material headed away escape Earth's gravity? How would the Moon's gravity affect the debris? We might end up with a planetary ring.

(See also: the Ewok Holocaust, heheheh)
 
2012-09-11 07:13:30 PM

Faddy: Unless they also invented a time machine there were computers before Roswell. Highlighting a stupid plot point would make it worse


I read both the novels (shut up), and watched the deleted scenes, and this came up during a conversation at a party I was at not long ago (shut up).

Integrated circuitry was reverse-engineered from the Roswell crash, as was the aliens' programming language which formed the basis of the various high-level languages that are used by people. Moreover, Goldblum's character had already been sniffing around the aliens' coding, language, and operating system(s) since he started codebreaking the global signal, and had managed to figure out just enough to write a virus.

Still suspension of disbelief-straining? Sure. Do computers and programming languages really work that way? Not so much. But, it's not a plot hole by writing -- shiatty editing's the culprit.

/ Actually enjoyed the movie. It was a good no-brainer summer sci-fi/action film.
// As if Aliens is any smarter, just spent Saturday night watching it with some friends and picking it the hell apart.
 
2012-09-11 07:19:06 PM

StopLurkListen: That's really neat and I love these kinds of thought experiments.


Especially important there is that not all the mothership's mass would actually enter Erf's atmosphere. Only a small fraction would, since a hefty chunk of it would either be launched away at escape velocity, propelled into elliptical orbits, or slowed into unstable orbits that would cause chunks to come down over time.
 
2012-09-11 07:31:47 PM
Eh. With the shields down, you could use atomics again.
 
2012-09-11 07:49:40 PM

valar_morghulis: Snapper Carr: Here's an idea -

Turn the sequel into an adaptation of Greg Bear's Anvil of Stars

/seconded


Huge sci-fi nerd but I've never read that one. Just put it (and Forge) on hold at the library. I think I kinda wrote Bear off because I tried reading "Darwin's Radio" and it bored me silly.
 
mjg
2012-09-11 08:35:34 PM
"Independence Day - Rise of the Whales"

/sea aliens
 
2012-09-11 09:16:57 PM
Can someone explain to me why taking out the mother-ship disabled every piece of alien technology? You would think that these intelligent creatures would have back up, or independent power sources(i.e. Batteries, or mini fusion reactors) for every craft and piece of technology...

/It's like the whole "Take out the bridge of a Super Star Destroyer, and it suddenly crashes into the Death Star."
 
2012-09-11 09:27:47 PM

shinjitsuism: Can someone explain to me why taking out the mother-ship disabled every piece of alien technology? You would think that these intelligent creatures would have back up, or independent power sources(i.e. Batteries, or mini fusion reactors) for every craft and piece of technology...

/It's like the whole "Take out the bridge of a Super Star Destroyer, and it suddenly crashes into the Death Star."


It's been a while since I saw it, but wasn't it more a case of using the mother ship to distribute the virus through the alien communication relays to cause their shields to drop? It wasn't just blow up the mother ship, all the fighters drop.
 
2012-09-11 09:38:56 PM

NeoCortex42: It's been a while since I saw it, but wasn't it more a case of using the mother ship to distribute the virus through the alien communication relays to cause their shields to drop? It wasn't just blow up the mother ship, all the fighters drop.


Yup.

And the aliens' power grid was wireless, distributed by the mothership. That was a plot point that actually wasn't cut from the theatrical release.
 
2012-09-11 09:42:11 PM

MagSeven: I just pretend that District 9 is the sequel. Just like I pretend the Terminator movies are a prequel to The Matrix.

 
2012-09-11 09:49:46 PM

Antimatter: dittybopper: buntz: You know, just by killing the boss and blowing up his headquarters doesn't end the war

Actually, sometimes it does. I can think of numerous examples from history.

It works when you have a nation state willing to give up and order its forces to surrender. Not so effective when you are facing an enemy with nothing to lose and no rules governor what's acceptable in war. Once cannot describe how incredibly brutal a conflict like this would be in real life.


What if the hive mind weren't all hive mind, a la V (80s and 00s versions, 5th column)? there may be genetic mutations on board those generation ships who have to pretend to be connected to the hive mind, but aren't, and end up having ideas of their own. Also, what happens when an individual is disconnected from the hive mind, who was fully integrated into that hive mind?
 
2012-09-11 10:06:11 PM
It seems like these "plot holes" are pretty easy to explain.
 
2012-09-11 10:26:51 PM

dittybopper: Goldblum's character figures out their encoding scheme fairly early. He *KNOWS* how they send numbers. They are using some sort of conventional radio to communicate (they hijack our satellites for that purpose, remember?), and we have operating computers on the captured spacecraft. At that point, it's just a matter of black-box testing to figure out what base-level machine language commands you need to use to write a very simple virus that simply overwhelms the alien computers.


HACKERS was not a documentary.
 
2012-09-11 10:33:06 PM

The_Time_Master: dittybopper: Goldblum's character figures out their encoding scheme fairly early. He *KNOWS* how they send numbers. They are using some sort of conventional radio to communicate (they hijack our satellites for that purpose, remember?), and we have operating computers on the captured spacecraft. At that point, it's just a matter of black-box testing to figure out what base-level machine language commands you need to use to write a very simple virus that simply overwhelms the alien computers.

HACKERS was not a documentary.


HACK THE PLANET!
 
2012-09-11 10:41:36 PM

Twigz221: The biggest complaint about the original was that the virus worked on the alien computers. This is commonly called one of the biggest plot holes. I agreed until I saw the deleted scene where Bren Spiners character explains to Jeff Goldblum that we only have computers thanks to the roswell crash. We reverse engineered all of our systems from the ships computer.


I hate to admit it but I know somebody who honestly believes this. He was adopted

/kidding about the adopted part
//No relation at all
 
2012-09-11 10:52:12 PM

The_Time_Master: dittybopper: Goldblum's character figures out their encoding scheme fairly early. He *KNOWS* how they send numbers. They are using some sort of conventional radio to communicate (they hijack our satellites for that purpose, remember?), and we have operating computers on the captured spacecraft. At that point, it's just a matter of black-box testing to figure out what base-level machine language commands you need to use to write a very simple virus that simply overwhelms the alien computers.

HACKERS was not a documentary.


Dude, I've been writing software for a living for just about two decades now. Before that, I wrote software for fun. I bought my first computer in 1983. I was in the signals intelligence business. I used to play core wars.

You don't seem realize that a virus can be very simple, just a couple of instructions.
 
2012-09-11 11:14:22 PM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: what happens when an individual is disconnected from the hive mind, who was fully integrated into that hive mind?


I'd imagine a super specialized alien worker, that is totally dependent on a superior intellect to guide him, would just sit around aimlessly if cut off.
If the queen does all the thinking then the worker only needs to eat, poop, and follow instructions. It might have a basic fight or flight mechanism and that's it.

A hive mind may be a bit different in that each member can think for itself, but the loss of massed intelligence from being connected would drop its brain power many fold. It may be just as stupid as a worker drone, in effect, because the hive contained many millions of minds working together.

Its like when your cell phone or laptop suddenly dies and you are cut off from all that easily accessed information. Your IQ bottoms out to whatever it was pre-internet and you suddenly can't spell words or remember friends phone numbers.
Imagine that, but far more drastic.
 
2012-09-11 11:26:28 PM

dittybopper: The_Time_Master: dittybopper: Goldblum's character figures out their encoding scheme fairly early. He *KNOWS* how they send numbers. They are using some sort of conventional radio to communicate (they hijack our satellites for that purpose, remember?), and we have operating computers on the captured spacecraft. At that point, it's just a matter of black-box testing to figure out what base-level machine language commands you need to use to write a very simple virus that simply overwhelms the alien computers.

HACKERS was not a documentary.

Dude, I've been writing software for a living for just about two decades now. Before that, I wrote software for fun. I bought my first computer in 1983. I was in the signals intelligence business. I used to play core wars.

You don't seem realize that a virus can be very simple, just a couple of instructions.


Yeah, thats one of 2 points people who overthink the whole thing always miss:

1 Goldblum didn't have to figure out how to communicate with the aliens computers, they did that to hijack our satelites

2 He didn't have to write a complicated virus. The enemy was a telepathic race. Information security would be nonexistant so there was no need for concealment and replication subtlety. Ironically enough the advanced nature of their computers would make virus writing easier.
 
2012-09-11 11:36:55 PM
Wait. The first one had a plot?
 
2012-09-12 12:03:53 AM

Honest Bender: [images1.wikia.nocookie.net image 513x747]

We did it. We defeated the invaders and left their ships in ruins.
Deep inside those ruins was a single stone that would change the course of our
history forever.
On the stone was etched a galactic map
and a single word more ancient than civilization itself:
Hiigara.
Our home.
The world was united and a massive colony ship was designed.
Construction would take 60 years.
It would demand new technologies, new industries and new sacrifices...



I'd pay good money for a Homeworld sequel, screw Independence Day sequel, like if the movie made any sense in the first place, it was only a good excuse to blow up the White House and New York, and well mission accomplished, the rest was filler.
 
2012-09-12 12:05:21 AM
I meant Homeworld movie, but a sequel qould be nice as well.
 
2012-09-12 01:05:36 AM

mantidor: I meant Homeworld movie, but a sequel qould be nice as well.


upload.wikimedia.org

Don't get your hopes up, though, it wasn't as good as the first game.
 
2012-09-12 01:25:00 AM

The_Time_Master: dittybopper: Goldblum's character figures out their encoding scheme fairly early. He *KNOWS* how they send numbers. They are using some sort of conventional radio to communicate (they hijack our satellites for that purpose, remember?), and we have operating computers on the captured spacecraft. At that point, it's just a matter of black-box testing to figure out what base-level machine language commands you need to use to write a very simple virus that simply overwhelms the alien computers.

HACKERS was not a documentary.


But it was a great movie encapsulating the 90s.
 
2012-09-12 01:45:50 AM

way south: ExperianScaresCthulhu: what happens when an individual is disconnected from the hive mind, who was fully integrated into that hive mind?

I'd imagine a super specialized alien worker, that is totally dependent on a superior intellect to guide him, would just sit around aimlessly if cut off.

If the queen does all the thinking then the worker only needs to eat, poop, and follow instructions. It might have a basic fight or flight mechanism and that's it.

A hive mind may be a bit different in that each member can think for itself, but the loss of massed intelligence from being connected would drop its brain power many fold. It may be just as stupid as a worker drone, in effect, because the hive contained many millions of minds working together.

Its like when your cell phone or laptop suddenly dies and you are cut off from all that easily accessed information. Your IQ bottoms out to whatever it was pre-internet and you suddenly can't spell words or remember friends phone numbers.
Imagine that, but far more drastic.


Then the best thing for Earthlings to do is to be substitutes for the original hive mind. If the brain works anything close to humans, then new neural pathways could be created which permanently alter the original hive mind setting, right? At that point, it's just a battle for who maintains dominance of the new type of hive mind.

The aliens may hate humans, but at the end of the day, the need to be in a hive mind -- any hive mind -- is going to be a driving biological force greater than sex.

If the alien telepathic ability is wide, we're fked. If it isn't, if the advance scouts locked up in Area 51 had only their pre-crash knowledge of The Plan and not of what their people were currently thinking, because telepathy is not limitless, then there's a chance to test the limits of that telepathy and use it to human (and human-alien hybrid mind) advantage.

Can conflict be introduced that way? by pairing Alpha humans with lowliest of lowly hive Aliens, for the Ben-Willard effect, making the prior lowly hive Aliens more Alpha and thus creating conflict with the original natural order of the hive?

Or would it just be better to say fk it and kill any you see before they kill you?
 
2012-09-12 06:50:30 AM
1.bp.blogspot.com

Why am I late to the party yet the first MFer posting this?!?!?!


/you guys are a' slackin!
//Earf, welcome to it...
 
2012-09-12 06:56:39 AM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: Can conflict be introduced that way? by pairing Alpha humans with lowliest of lowly hive Aliens, for the Ben-Willard effect, making the prior lowly hive Aliens more Alpha and thus creating conflict with the original natural order of the hive?


If we consider their intelligence to be something like the internet (which I'm convinced will be the future human hive mind), then subversion is the best route. But that plan depends on how smart and witty we are as individuals compared to members of the hive.

A direct assault on a superior mind won't end well. It would be like Glados VS a goldfish... but a hive may never take us on directly.
As a collective, its too smart to be tripped up in a ground war. It may do something insidious like take over our banks and government from the inside. Dominating the place without firing a shot.
One day you find yourself driving a truckload of goods to a non-descrip parking lot where the trailers are mysteriously emptied in the middle of the night. All the paperwork is there so no one really thinks about it.
We fill automated cargo ships full of refined metals, take our paychecks and go home.

I think that is the scarier thought really. The hero wakes up to discover that the aliens have landed and we're working for them.
But the difference in our intelligence is so vast that no one realizes we're mining LOL-Cats for a hive mind from another world.
 
2012-09-12 08:59:09 AM

MadMattressMack: Either way an object 1/4 the size of the moon, and assuming a mostly empty structure where only 1% of the volume is mass, we can assume that it's mass equals to about .0025% of the mass of the moon, which itself is 7.35x10^22 kg. I could be butchering the numbers since I'm doing this quickly at work, but that gives us an object falling to earth with orbital velocity and bigger than anything the Earf's seen since the heavy bombardment period. An object going 16,000 MPH and big enough to hit the surface while still standing hundreds of miles out into space and weighs 91,875,000,000,000,000 tons . The aliens are the least of our worries.


Well, the ship was blown up. It wasn't like it was all in one big chunk with that much mass. The nuke probably vaporized a lot of it and it was blown into many, many smaller pieces.
 
2012-09-12 09:04:17 AM

way south: I think that is the scarier thought really. The hero wakes up to discover that the aliens have landed and we're working for them.
But the difference in our intelligence is so vast that no one realizes we're mining LOL-Cats for a hive mind from another world.


Michael Bay should make that movie.
 
2012-09-12 10:33:29 AM

Walt_Jizzney: [1.bp.blogspot.com image 640x480]

Why am I late to the party yet the first MFer posting this?!?!?!


/you guys are a' slackin!
//Earf, welcome to it...


Everyone else was just a lot more subtle....
 
2012-09-12 12:10:58 PM
Jimmy Norton said that Will and Jeff flying that old alien craft to the mother ship would be like a couple of turtles driving an Edsel pulling into your drive way and you finding nothing odd about it.
 
2012-09-12 12:37:55 PM

MagSeven: Walt_Jizzney: [1.bp.blogspot.com image 640x480]

Why am I late to the party yet the first MFer posting this?!?!?!


/you guys are a' slackin!
//Earf, welcome to it...

Everyone else was just a lot more subtle....


Bah! Overrated....
 
2012-09-13 04:51:19 PM

broktune: Jimmy Norton said that Will and Jeff flying that old alien craft to the mother ship would be like a couple of turtles driving an Edsel pulling into your drive way and you finding nothing odd about it.


Military equipment doesn't always change that often.
If a Deuce and a half pulled up at a busy human base, how many would notice that its a half century old?

/and they did close the window.
 
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