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(Den Of Geek)   The plot problems facing an Independence Day sequel   (denofgeek.com) divider line 233
    More: Interesting, Independence Days, Independence Day sequels, Roland Emmerich, Bill Pullman, resistance group, Jeff Goldblum, alien invasion, sequels  
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18127 clicks; posted to Geek » on 11 Sep 2012 at 10:36 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-11 09:49:16 AM
Well, first, wouldn't the people of Earf already be prepared for another invasion?
 
2012-09-11 10:38:17 AM
DRFTA, but I'm guessing the entire, lengthy list is something like:

1. It was a closed story, and writers have nowhere to go with it.

End of list.
 
2012-09-11 10:41:03 AM
That article officially thought more about consequnces of the plot than Dean Devlin ever did.
 
2012-09-11 10:41:14 AM

FirstNationalBastard: Well, first, wouldn't the people of Earf already be prepared for another invasion?


Not so much, if there was a second wave closely follwing the first, the earf would be easier to take down
 
2012-09-11 10:41:49 AM
A plot in the sequel? Why start now?
 
2012-09-11 10:42:19 AM

loonatic112358: FirstNationalBastard: Well, first, wouldn't the people of Earf already be prepared for another invasion?

Not so much, if there was a second wave closely follwing the first, the earf would be easier to take down


Ah, but Earf would find a way to repel the invasion.
 
2012-09-11 10:42:55 AM

loonatic112358: FirstNationalBastard: Well, first, wouldn't the people of Earf already be prepared for another invasion?

Not so much, if there was a second wave closely follwing the first, the earf would be easier to take down


What a novel idea on a day like today.
 
2012-09-11 10:42:57 AM
The alien's anitvirus auto-updated?
 
2012-09-11 10:43:01 AM
The aliens aren't going quietly into the night
 
2012-09-11 10:43:25 AM
#1 Macs are no longer the Typhoid Marys of the computer world so they couldn't use it as a safe platform to launch the next virus to take down the entire alien fleet because it'd get infected too.
 
2012-09-11 10:43:47 AM
The article writer did not address the problem of having entirely too much time on his hands.
 
2012-09-11 10:44:23 AM

InfrasonicTom: loonatic112358: FirstNationalBastard: Well, first, wouldn't the people of Earf already be prepared for another invasion?

Not so much, if there was a second wave closely follwing the first, the earf would be easier to take down

What a novel idea on a day like today.


Beautiful day outside where i am, what about for you
 
2012-09-11 10:46:11 AM
Besides the fact that the first one was a total piece O' shiat?
 
2012-09-11 10:47:05 AM
The biggest complaint about the original was that the virus worked on the alien computers. This is commonly called one of the biggest plot holes. I agreed until I saw the deleted scene where Bren Spiners character explains to Jeff Goldblum that we only have computers thanks to the roswell crash. We reverse engineered all of our systems from the ships computer. So it would make sense that there would be come compatibility.

That's a rather important point. Why the hell did they delete it from the final cut?
 
2012-09-11 10:47:42 AM

FirstNationalBastard: Ah, but Earf would find a way to repel the invasion.


with what resources, they sort of used up most of what they had in the end there, if the 2nd fleet was within a year or two of the first, they'd find an earth still struggling to repair itself

decimated population, many military installations gone, much of the manufacturing capacity gone, mind you Detroit should still be ok, as the author points out a very cold winter from the smoking ruins of the crashed ships,

You could maybe do a survival and rebuild series off that, ending with the earflings getting off this rock to find out what's out there
 
2012-09-11 10:50:10 AM

loonatic112358: InfrasonicTom: loonatic112358: FirstNationalBastard: Well, first, wouldn't the people of Earf already be prepared for another invasion?

Not so much, if there was a second wave closely follwing the first, the earf would be easier to take down

What a novel idea on a day like today.

Beautiful day outside where i am, what about for you


Sky is blue, nice crisp fall weather out there.
 
2012-09-11 10:50:22 AM

InfrasonicTom: loonatic112358: FirstNationalBastard: Well, first, wouldn't the people of Earf already be prepared for another invasion?

Not so much, if there was a second wave closely follwing the first, the earf would be easier to take down

What a novel idea on a day like today.


A SECOND SPACESHIP HAS JUST HIT THE SOUTH OF EARF!
 
2012-09-11 10:50:32 AM
 
2012-09-11 10:51:07 AM

loonatic112358: with what resources, they sort of used up most of what they had in the end there, if the 2nd fleet was within a year or two of the first, they'd find an earth still struggling to repair itself


Yeah, but you'd need to play a little with technology advancement to make the film speak more clearly to the current generation of movie-goers, and just imagine what an iPad would do to one of those motherships...
 
2012-09-11 10:51:20 AM
All the point the author makes are points that a typical blockbuster movie wouldn't even bother to explain in DVD commentary let alone the plot and dialog of the actual movie. They'd just leave everything unsaid put in some fancy special effects and explosions and call it a day.

They'd probably make millions on it too.
 
2012-09-11 10:51:48 AM
Spoiler: In this one, we win by trolling the aliens into ragequitting.
 
2012-09-11 10:55:03 AM
They bumped off the best character in the first one?
i1151.photobucket.com
Sh*tter's full - and I'm back from the dead!
 
2012-09-11 10:55:08 AM
Somebody greenlit and payed for that steaming pile of plot hole called Battleship, so anything is possible.
 
2012-09-11 10:55:33 AM
OS X Mountain Lion has Gatekeeper now?

/curses!
//foiled again!
 
2012-09-11 10:57:02 AM

Disposable Rob: That article officially thought more about consequnces of the plot than Dean Devlin ever did.


Speaking of Dean Devlin movies, I want my Stargate sequel. They kept kicking around the idea of a direct sequel to the movie, ignoring SG-1. I would love to see what they had planned for that.
 
2012-09-11 10:58:11 AM

Twigz221: The biggest complaint about the original was that the virus worked on the alien computers. This is commonly called one of the biggest plot holes. I agreed until I saw the deleted scene where Bren Spiners character explains to Jeff Goldblum that we only have computers thanks to the roswell crash. We reverse engineered all of our systems from the ships computer. So it would make sense that there would be come compatibility.

That's a rather important point. Why the hell did they delete it from the final cut?


Unless they also invented a time machine there were computers before Roswell. Highlighting a stupid plot point would make it worse
 
2012-09-11 10:58:45 AM

Tor_Eckman: Somebody greenlit and payed for that steaming pile of plot hole called Battleship, so anything is possible.


I enjoyed battleship. Sometimes it's enjoyable to watch good guys kill aliens. It doesn't need to make much sense.
 
2012-09-11 10:58:50 AM

Twigz221: The biggest complaint about the original was that the virus worked on the alien computers. This is commonly called one of the biggest plot holes. I agreed until I saw the deleted scene where Bren Spiners character explains to Jeff Goldblum that we only have computers thanks to the roswell crash. We reverse engineered all of our systems from the ships computer. So it would make sense that there would be come compatibility.

That's a rather important point. Why the hell did they delete it from the final cut?


I'd always assumed that was the reason. Anyone smart enough to know what reverse engineering is doesn't really need a scene explaining that's what happened. That's a rare instance of a big, stupid Hollywood flick not assuming its audience is completely stupid.
 
2012-09-11 10:59:26 AM

Twigz221: The biggest complaint about the original was that the virus worked on the alien computers. This is commonly called one of the biggest plot holes. I agreed until I saw the deleted scene where Bren Spiners character explains to Jeff Goldblum that we only have computers thanks to the roswell crash. We reverse engineered all of our systems from the ships computer. So it would make sense that there would be come compatibility.

That's a rather important point. Why the hell did they delete it from the final cut?


Aw hell naw! Who on earf would make such a colossal blunder?
 
2012-09-11 11:00:50 AM

loonatic112358: FirstNationalBastard: Well, first, wouldn't the people of Earf already be prepared for another invasion?

Not so much, if there was a second wave closely follwing the first, the earf would be easier to take down


Am I the only to remember them saying at one point, that the whole alien population just jumped from planet to planet, and therefore were all here ? Or am I mistaking it with an other movie ?
 
2012-09-11 11:01:35 AM

Jclark666: Spoiler: In this one, we win by trolling the aliens into ragequitting.


we simply upload Dark Souls, Super Meatboy and CS:GO into their computers . Then we invite them to play dust 2 and italy.
 
2012-09-11 11:01:49 AM

loonatic112358: FirstNationalBastard: Ah, but Earf would find a way to repel the invasion.

with what resources, they sort of used up most of what they had in the end there, if the 2nd fleet was within a year or two of the first, they'd find an earth still struggling to repair itself

decimated population, many military installations gone, much of the manufacturing capacity gone, mind you Detroit should still be ok, as the author points out a very cold winter from the smoking ruins of the crashed ships,

You could maybe do a survival and rebuild series off that, ending with the earflings getting off this rock to find out what's out there


Maybe they have some sweet replicator style tech they can declassify and rebuild he cities like they were or something. Basically if there is a plot problema wizard alien technology did it
 
2012-09-11 11:03:30 AM

padraig: loonatic112358: FirstNationalBastard: Well, first, wouldn't the people of Earf already be prepared for another invasion?

Not so much, if there was a second wave closely follwing the first, the earf would be easier to take down

Am I the only to remember them saying at one point, that the whole alien population just jumped from planet to planet, and therefore were all here ? Or am I mistaking it with an other movie ?


President Pullman described them as Locusts. They can always say there were more out there. Maybe they "swarm" over entire solar systems and some of them are on Mahs.
 
2012-09-11 11:04:08 AM

loonatic112358: FirstNationalBastard: Well, first, wouldn't the people of Earf already be prepared for another invasion?

Not so much, if there was a second wave closely follwing the first, the earf would be easier to take down


It's doubtful that another mother ship would be following the path the first one was taking. It's clear from ID that the aliens landed on a planet and strip mined it for the resources, then left for the next one when it was useless. A second ship following the first one would not find untouched planets to consume, so they would take another path through the galaxy. They also wouldn't be close by for the same reason; planets with resources aren't all that common, so they will spread out.

As for the alien ships on Earth after the movie ended, don't forget the hordes of fighters each one disgorged. Each fighter had at least one pilot; did the defenders destroy every single one? It appeared from the ones we saw that the interior of those ships almost certainly was ruined by the feedback and explosion from the main weapon; we see flames and smoke from all over the ships. Plus the impact of megatons of ship crashing into the planet can't be good for the inhabitants either.
 
2012-09-11 11:04:19 AM

Egoy3k: Tor_Eckman: Somebody greenlit and payed for that steaming pile of plot hole called Battleship, so anything is possible.

I enjoyed battleship. Sometimes it's enjoyable to watch good guys kill aliens. It doesn't need to make much sense.


I understand suspending disbelief. But that thing had more holes in it than Sonny Corleone at a tollbooth.
 
2012-09-11 11:05:24 AM

Faddy: Twigz221: The biggest complaint about the original was that the virus worked on the alien computers. This is commonly called one of the biggest plot holes. I agreed until I saw the deleted scene where Bren Spiners character explains to Jeff Goldblum that we only have computers thanks to the roswell crash. We reverse engineered all of our systems from the ships computer. So it would make sense that there would be come compatibility.

That's a rather important point. Why the hell did they delete it from the final cut?

Unless they also invented a time machine there were computers before Roswell. Highlighting a stupid plot point would make it worse


Transistors were invented shortly after the Roswell crash, so you see the connection show up in some Alien conspiracies.
 
2012-09-11 11:05:51 AM

clkeagle: DRFTA, but I'm guessing the entire, lengthy list is something like:

1. It was a closed story, and writers have nowhere to go with it.

End of list.


Unless you want to write a story about post-ID4 society with an entirely different group of people trying to rebuild civilization, done in two.
 
2012-09-11 11:05:55 AM

padraig: loonatic112358: FirstNationalBastard: Well, first, wouldn't the people of Earf already be prepared for another invasion?

Not so much, if there was a second wave closely follwing the first, the earf would be easier to take down

Am I the only to remember them saying at one point, that the whole alien population just jumped from planet to planet, and therefore were all here ? Or am I mistaking it with an other movie ?


That's what I thought, too. IMDB backs that up:

President Thomas Whitmore: I saw... its thoughts. I saw what they're planning to do. They're like locusts. They're moving from planet to planet... their whole civilization. After they've consumed every natural resource they move on... and we're next. Nuke 'em. Let's nuke the bastards.

So there's no cavalry, no backup. That was it.
 
2012-09-11 11:07:06 AM

Twigz221: The biggest complaint about the original was that the virus worked on the alien computers. This is commonly called one of the biggest plot holes. I agreed until I saw the deleted scene where Bren Spiners character explains to Jeff Goldblum that we only have computers thanks to the roswell crash. We reverse engineered all of our systems from the ships computer. So it would make sense that there would be come compatibility.

That's a rather important point. Why the hell did they delete it from the final cut?


Actually, you don't even need that.

Goldblum's character figures out their encoding scheme fairly early. He *KNOWS* how they send numbers. They are using some sort of conventional radio to communicate (they hijack our satellites for that purpose, remember?), and we have operating computers on the captured spacecraft. At that point, it's just a matter of black-box testing to figure out what base-level machine language commands you need to use to write a very simple virus that simply overwhelms the alien computers.

Don't forget that the aliens in ID have a sort-of hive mentality. While looking at external threats, it might never have occurred to them that they might be attacked from within, which is essentially what happens in ID. They wouldn't have even simple virus protections built into their computers because it wouldn't have been something they needed to worry about.

Now, could one person accomplish that in 24 hours? Nope. But a bunch of the best and brightest, with some knowledge of how the alien technology works, and the knowledge of how the aliens encode their data, might be able to. Unfortunately, the movie skips that part, though I understand why.
 
2012-09-11 11:07:43 AM
Interesting that they leave out one major plot issue with the FIRST one: There's zero reason for the big bad aliens to attack the Earth for the reasons given. There is, readily available, far more of the very resources the aliens were after, ripe for the plucking with no messy need for invasion, even before you reach Jupiter. And we're talking about several Earth's worth of water, oxygen, minerals, etc, just sitting out there.
 
2012-09-11 11:07:45 AM
I have problems with the first movie.

Why were the aliens using TCP/IP?
 
2012-09-11 11:08:54 AM

unchellmatt: Interesting that they leave out one major plot issue with the FIRST one: There's zero reason for the big bad aliens to attack the Earth for the reasons given. There is, readily available, far more of the very resources the aliens were after, ripe for the plucking with no messy need for invasion, even before you reach Jupiter. And we're talking about several Earth's worth of water, oxygen, minerals, etc, just sitting out there.


Universe's largest collection of Beanie Babies. FACT.
 
2012-09-11 11:09:24 AM

madcan34: Besides the fact that the first one was a total piece O' shiat?


This1000

Seriously, that movie sucked. My eyes hurt from them being rolled back into my head and the only amusing part was on the way out as the credits were rolling my wife says "OH, I DIDN'T KNOW JAMES EARL JONES WAS IN THIS" and a whole ton of people stop in their tracks to try to pick his name out of the credits list.
 
2012-09-11 11:12:22 AM

BalugaJoe: I have problems with the first movie.

Why were the aliens using TCP/IP?


4.bp.blogspot.com

How do we know they didn't invent the thing?
 
2012-09-11 11:12:27 AM

padraig: loonatic112358: FirstNationalBastard: Well, first, wouldn't the people of Earf already be prepared for another invasion?

Not so much, if there was a second wave closely follwing the first, the earf would be easier to take down

Am I the only to remember them saying at one point, that the whole alien population just jumped from planet to planet, and therefore were all here ? Or am I mistaking it with an other movie ?


No, you're right. So the plausibility of survivors of the alien species holding out and defending their crashed ships is the more likely sequel scenario. Given the swath of destruction, it's also more likely that humans outnumber them several times over so the few survivors could be easily wiped out by small arms fire, larger hold outs in intact ship areas can be breached. That is of course, if the aliens don't reach some self-destruct mechanism to destroy the remaining parts of the ship with the human invaders on board.
 
2012-09-11 11:13:25 AM

Car_Ramrod: padraig: loonatic112358: FirstNationalBastard: Well, first, wouldn't the people of Earf already be prepared for another invasion?

Not so much, if there was a second wave closely follwing the first, the earf would be easier to take down

Am I the only to remember them saying at one point, that the whole alien population just jumped from planet to planet, and therefore were all here ? Or am I mistaking it with an other movie ?

That's what I thought, too. IMDB backs that up:

President Thomas Whitmore: I saw... its thoughts. I saw what they're planning to do. They're like locusts. They're moving from planet to planet... their whole civilization. After they've consumed every natural resource they move on... and we're next. Nuke 'em. Let's nuke the bastards.

So there's no cavalry, no backup. That was it.


Birds eat locusts. Vultures eat carcasses. Opportunists always await in the wings.

/can't rebottle magic
//ID4:2 = Scary Movie 5
 
2012-09-11 11:14:30 AM

OtherLittleGuy: ID4


What the hell does that "abbreviation" mean, anyway? People kept trying to explain that it was "independence day" and that's on July 4, so it "makes sense", but I've never been really satisfied with that answer (because it _doesn't_ make any more sense than calling Groundhog Day "GD2" and that's patently stupid)
 
2012-09-11 11:15:12 AM
It doesn't matter where I am, or what I'm doing - if I happen to see this movie is on TV, I have to sit and down and watch it. I can't help myself. I've done it so many times, I can quote pretty much every line - it boggled my wife's mind the first time I did.
 
2012-09-11 11:15:36 AM
Really? Almost 50 posts and no one biatching about how they think Earf is 'racist'?

What on Earf?
 
2012-09-11 11:19:52 AM
I enjoyed this movie when it came out, but alas my science background has deepened considerably since then, and I have a hard time suspending the disbelief that when an object one quarter the size of the moon detonates in near-Earth orbit, much of the surface will remain undamaged.

To say nothing of city sized saucers crashing to the ground (although I suspect the G-forces involved would plaster any surviving aliens into goo).

Good intentions perhaps, but let the movie rest. There's always a remake to be made.
 
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