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(The New York Times)   Meet the home-loan crisis's younger sister, Sallie. She's in college   (nytimes.com) divider line 306
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19326 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Sep 2012 at 3:03 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-10 07:52:35 PM  
UltimaCS
I have a lot of people telling me I should appreciate the $16/hour I'm getting, but it's a hard pill to swallow knowing that it was easy to get twice that much just a few years ago.

How much are they making? It's one thing to have someone else in your field tell you that, something else entirely to have someone better off than you patronisingly tell you to be grateful for a demeaning wage.
 
2012-09-10 07:55:33 PM  

Bondith: How much are they making? It's one thing to have someone else in your field tell you that, something else entirely to have someone better off than you patronisingly tell you to be grateful for a demeaning wage.


It's always someone busting their ass for minimum wage, so I feel a bit guilty about it. Of course I thought those kinds of people would be making more money with the way they consistently doled out career advice.
 
2012-09-10 07:59:52 PM  
I forgot to mention the exception: The HR guys giggled to say that my boss likely makes in a minute what I do in an hour. While I respect my boss and agree that he provides a service agreeable with his payscale, I think it was fair of me to be offended when they suggested that I should "work up" to his position.
 
2012-09-10 08:01:09 PM  
The government under either Obama or Romney should talk about how to make loans more available to people, but talk about reducing the cost of school so we wouldn't need those loans.
 
2012-09-10 08:02:02 PM  

brandent: Both of those things are an issue. The first one (for profit) is a bigger issue.


It's actually one issue. The lowest quality students tend to go to the for-profit schools, who are most likely to fail and default, but it's the exact same problem.

The second one is important though and less easy to fix. I would bet someone could come up with an index that measured graduation rates, salaries after the fact, etc to decide what an appropriate funding level is.

You'd still be treating English majors the same as Engineering by that methodology.

That presumes you are for any form of federal financing of college.

I would not, because there is no possible way of doing it without creating inflation and screwing up price signals.

It would seem to me a needs and achievement based scholarship to much fewer people would go a long way but then only for degree programs that can demonstrate historical achievement.

Why federalize it, though? Why not let the market determine which schools/degrees are at what level of risk? This will keep prices lower for everyone. (I'm saying not in the business at all, not going back to the absurdity of underwriting all the risk for private lenders.)

Just ideas. I would say however the for profit thing is a huge waste of money and the tuition inflation is also evident in that crowd.

What tangible differences do you see between the for-profits and the normal 4 year schools?

GBB: Exactly how many of your tax dollars do you suppose were thrown away here?? Would you like a refund? Do you have change for a penny?


Turns out there was more than that one guy. Current total of past due student debt per capita is close to $300.
 
2012-09-10 08:02:04 PM  

nmemkha: I find it ironic that people who were taught to count by Sesame Street puppets and are rabid fanbois of animated shows think Liberal Arts degrees are worthless.


Would you settle for the statemetn that Liberal Arts degrees are over priced for what they pay and the number of those majoring in them exceed the demand?
 
2012-09-10 08:03:09 PM  

BMFPitt: I'm saying not in the business at all


That was actually supposed to be appended to the previous line.
 
2012-09-10 08:03:49 PM  

what_now: ToeKnee666: Government guaranteed loans take all the risk out of it for the lenders. They'd be stupid *not* to hand out massive loans to everyone who asks.

Those don't exist any longer. The feds kicked the banks out of the Direct (stafford) loan program in 2010, and I'll tell you that ALONE has secured my vote for Obama's re-election.

The problem with most people isn't federal loans. There is a limit to the amount of federal loans you can borrow, especially as an undergrad.

The problem is private loans.


Private student loans should be dismissed in bankruptcy, THAT's corporate welfare.
 
2012-09-10 08:04:32 PM  

PsiChick: TheDumbBlonde: PsiChick: hasty ambush: PsiChick: figure out how to rework schools so men still have an advantage.

I find it amusing that you think men still have an advantage. Call men when they have a course on male studies.

...Actually, I'm exhausted and mistyped. I meant to say so men still have a decent chance. I don't particularly think men should have an advantage any more than women. Equality is better for all of us.

And you'll probably never need male studies. Your gender didn't spend ninety percent of history without any official record of what you did.

That's biggest bunch of victim-metality bullshiat I have read recently.

Name one famous woman pre-America who isn't Joan of Arc. Without Google.

Yeah, I'm not saying it's ZOMG THE WORLD WILL DIE, but it's an actual issue, and thus, needs addressing. People seem to take this as some kind of slight. That seems more than slightly ridiculous, but hey, never underestimate people's power to be petty.


Really?? GODDAMN, Girl. While you studying the Vagina Monologues, some of managed to study history. Most the major things that have gone down in history were because of, or the love/lust over, a woman. How about the Trojan War and the Church of England for starters. Cleopatra, The Queen of Sheba? They shook things up. Mary of Modena caused the Glorious Revolution. Catherine the Great?? You need to learn less about your own orgasms and learn about women whose orgasms changed the world.
 
2012-09-10 08:07:32 PM  

KiplingKat872: mightymike82: I have had financial difficulties over the years, and stopped myself from going into default with a simple phone call. You can arrange temporary payment reductions, and in some cases, a one time year long interest free forebarance.

I tried this with Sallie Mae. They went after my retired mother instead.

Think of the most aggressive, unethical loan collectors you have ever encountered. Now think ten times worse. They know you can't discharge the debt though bankruptcy, so they feel no compunction being utterly remorseless and inflexible.



So why SHOULDN"T they be entitled to what you agreed to pay them back?
 
2012-09-10 08:10:46 PM  

PsiChick: First, women's studies would, presumably, cover a lot of ground that really needs to be covered--the most obvious is the end result of our current transition to women being the breadwinners and the social effects thereof, but I'd imagine it would help make the study of history a lot more solid, just to start with.


The end result will be it just being called "studies".
 
2012-09-10 08:11:03 PM  
Another sign of the looming crisis: when you make a student loan payment online and it takes four days for them to actually debit the money from your bank account. Time =/= money?
 
2012-09-10 08:11:15 PM  

Bondith: TheDumbBlonde: PsiChick: hasty ambush: PsiChick: figure out how to rework schools so men still have an advantage.

I find it amusing that you think men still have an advantage. Call men when they have a course on male studies.

...Actually, I'm exhausted and mistyped. I meant to say so men still have a decent chance. I don't particularly think men should have an advantage any more than women. Equality is better for all of us.

And you'll probably never need male studies. Your gender didn't spend ninety percent of history without any official record of what you did.

That's biggest bunch of victim-metality bullshiat I have read recently.

I've heard bigger.


Blah blah blah men suck blah blah blah.

I had to explain recently why I didn't identify myself as a feminist. Oh, I dunno, maybe because I don't like ANYONE telling me how much of a victim I was and still am because men suck? I lost some friends when I wouldn't toe the party line of MEN BAD WOMEN AWESOME and I don't mind a bit.
 
2012-09-10 08:16:46 PM  

TheDumbBlonde: Someone actually went into a 30-yr note so they could work in financial aid at a university?? This might be part of the problem, People.


You've never heard my biatch about my finances and you never will.

I do alright for myself AND I promote financial literacy programs for students, so blow it out your ass.
 
2012-09-10 08:19:03 PM  

PsiChick: Name one famous woman pre-America who isn't Joan of Arc. Without Google.


pre-1492 or pre-1776?

Cleopatra
Boudicca
Elizabeth I
Mary of Scots
Isabella (although I forget which Spanish kingdom she was from)

I also forget whether Elizabeth Bathory pre-dated 1776 or not.
 
2012-09-10 08:21:01 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Bondith: TheDumbBlonde: PsiChick: hasty ambush: PsiChick: figure out how to rework schools so men still have an advantage.

I find it amusing that you think men still have an advantage. Call men when they have a course on male studies.

...Actually, I'm exhausted and mistyped. I meant to say so men still have a decent chance. I don't particularly think men should have an advantage any more than women. Equality is better for all of us.

And you'll probably never need male studies. Your gender didn't spend ninety percent of history without any official record of what you did.

That's biggest bunch of victim-metality bullshiat I have read recently.

I've heard bigger.

Blah blah blah men suck blah blah blah.

I had to explain recently why I didn't identify myself as a feminist. Oh, I dunno, maybe because I don't like ANYONE telling me how much of a victim I was and still am because men suck? I lost some friends when I wouldn't toe the party line of MEN BAD WOMEN AWESOME and I don't mind a bit.


A friend of mine calls herself a feminist and despises that attitude. She said it comes from the second-wave feminists, the bored suburban housewives who reaped the benefits of the struggles of the first-wave and decided that they, too, were repressed, so they went off the deep end without bothering to read anything beyond pamphlet slogans. She's of the "Women are people too" camp rather than "all men are pigs". If you go by that definition, you could call me a feminist, and I have a Tool of the Opressors in my pants.
 
2012-09-10 08:22:31 PM  

what_now: TheDumbBlonde: Someone actually went into a 30-yr note so they could work in financial aid at a university?? This might be part of the problem, People.

You've never heard my biatch about my finances and you never will.

I do alright for myself AND I promote financial literacy programs for students, so blow it out your ass.


How about you blow your own bullshiat out your self-righteous piehole? I hardly call showing a bunch of dumbasses how to game the loan-sharking of financial aid "financial literacy". I'd call that chicanary. Or social justice.
 
2012-09-10 08:25:16 PM  
I think one of the reasons that for-profit schools get so much flack is because the quality of people that they'll admit. Now I've seen some real boneheads at State, and maybe it's wrong of me to say that there are some people who who should not be allowed to set foot in a college, but some of the idiots I've seen graduate from for-profit schools are beyond belief. I don't mind too much if the government wants to give some money for some sweet fresh faced promising low income kid to go to the local JC, but I don't want my tax dollars paying for illiterate drug addicts to go to $100,000 chef school or professional video game school.
 
2012-09-10 08:25:17 PM  

This text is now purple: PsiChick: Name one famous woman pre-America who isn't Joan of Arc. Without Google.

pre-1492 or pre-1776?

Cleopatra
Boudicca
Elizabeth I
Mary of Scots
Isabella (although I forget which Spanish kingdom she was from)

I also forget whether Elizabeth Bathory pre-dated 1776 or not.


1560-1614. She counts.

I believe she still holds the female record for serial murder (~650). Thug Behram (931) may be the male record-holder. In an odd twist, Gilles de Rais (here your Joan of Arc reference) is alleged to have killed around 200 children.
 
2012-09-10 08:36:18 PM  

This text is now purple: This text is now purple: PsiChick: Name one famous woman pre-America who isn't Joan of Arc. Without Google.

pre-1492 or pre-1776?

Cleopatra
Boudicca
Elizabeth I
Mary of Scots
Isabella (although I forget which Spanish kingdom she was from)

I also forget whether Elizabeth Bathory pre-dated 1776 or not.

1560-1614. She counts.

I believe she still holds the female record for serial murder (~650). Thug Behram (931) may be the male record-holder. In an odd twist, Gilles de Rais (here your Joan of Arc reference) is alleged to have killed around 200 children.


Castille
 
2012-09-10 08:37:09 PM  

PsiChick: Name one famous woman pre-America who isn't Joan of Arc. Without Google.


Eve

s3.amazonaws.com
 
2012-09-10 08:47:26 PM  
Hmmmm, let's see:

1. Borrow north of $100,000;

2. Graduate into a no--job economy;

3. Work at Mickey D's for $8 per hour;

4. Get harassed at work by debt collectors until you lose your job;

5. Go on Welfare.

That about get it?
 
2012-09-10 08:48:42 PM  

super_grass: Make it so that your loans can be forgiven if you declare bankruptcy.

That'll make people think twice about loaning bucketloads of cash to uninformed consumers going to for-profits.


They used to be dischargeable in bankruptcy. Then in the 80s there were tons of people racking up student debt and filing bankruptcy the day they graduated. Bad credit score in exchange for wiping out $100k in debt before I've even started looking for a job? Yes, please!
 
2012-09-10 08:51:13 PM  

olddinosaur: Hmmmm, let's see:

1. Borrow north of $100,000;

2. Graduate into a no--job economy;

3. Work at Mickey D's for $8 per hour;

4. Get harassed at work by debt collectors until you lose your job;

5. Go on Welfare.

That about get it?


No.

You are wrong, jackhat.

5: Go Homeless.

6: fark you, America.
 
2012-09-10 08:52:38 PM  

Indubitably: olddinosaur: Hmmmm, let's see:

1. Borrow north of $100,000;

2. Graduate into a no--job economy;

3. Work at Mickey D's for $8 per hour;

4. Get harassed at work by debt collectors until you lose your job;

5. Go on Welfare.

That about get it?

No.

You are wrong, jackhat.

5: Go Homeless.

6: fark you, America.


7: Apologies, I love my country, but fark you established-America...
 
2012-09-10 08:53:13 PM  

Indubitably: Indubitably: olddinosaur: Hmmmm, let's see:

1. Borrow north of $100,000;

2. Graduate into a no--job economy;

3. Work at Mickey D's for $8 per hour;

4. Get harassed at work by debt collectors until you lose your job;

5. Go on Welfare.

That about get it?

No.

You are wrong, jackhat.

5: Go Homeless.

6: fark you, America.

7: Apologies, I love my country, but fark you established-America...


8: Disseminate.
 
2012-09-10 08:59:24 PM  

olddinosaur: Hmmmm, let's see:

1. Borrow north of $100,000;

2. Graduate into a no--job economy;

3. Work at Mickey D's for $8 per hour;

4. Get harassed at work by debt collectors until you lose your job;

5. Go on Welfare.

That about get it?


You mean the kind of Conservative Fantasy Welfare in which you just stroll into some office and proclaim "I don'ts got me a job massah!" and they dole out a check to pay the rent and bills? Good luck!
 
2012-09-10 09:00:58 PM  

KiplingKat872: I will say that the University I work for is seeing more students going into the hard sciences than ever before. I work for the chemistry department and the number of chem majors have skyrocketed over the last three years.


And yet, only 40% of them will be able to land a job in chemistry...
 
2012-09-10 09:07:37 PM  

Mawson of the Antarctic: The government under either Obama or Romney should talk about how to make loans more available to people, but talk about reducing the cost of school so we wouldn't need those loans.


He may not be the brightest man out there but even he , or his advisors, come up with a good idea now and then. Gov. Perry wants TX colleges to come up with $10,000 bachelor's degree programs $10,000 bachelor's degree programs

It is ceratinly doable if you look at a number of things:

Tuition, fees and books for four years average $31,696 at public universities in Texas,

Look at books. E-books certaiinly should be a much cheaper way to go. There is no reason that the price of boosk could not be reduced considerably.

Brick and mortar costs. Put more of the education online, even lectures. It can be interactive. Buidlings cost money. Outside of labs there is not much need for classrooms now days and most classroom stuff is handle by TAs anyway.

You could also cut things like the living in the dorm requirement imposed on many freshmen.In mny cases an of camus aprtment is cheaper.

But most importantly cut the bulls@t courses that have nothing to do with your major. For example an engineering student should not have to take a humanties or sociology course. I know it is sold by the college a giving you a "well rounded education" but let us be honest it is a money making venture for them and it creates jobs for professors whose field of study only offers them a chance of employment in academia. Many students would not not take the courses if they were not required.

Besides beign well rounded is a rather subjective thing anyway and most emplyers I knw odo not really car if the egneerign grad thay are hiring spent a semester in class sgoign over the vagina monolouges.
 
2012-09-10 09:14:52 PM  

hasty ambush: Mawson of the Antarctic: The government under either Obama or Romney should talk about how to make loans more available to people, but talk about reducing the cost of school so we wouldn't need those loans.

He may not be the brightest man out there but even he , or his advisors, come up with a good idea now and then. Gov. Perry wants TX colleges to come up with $10,000 bachelor's degree programs $10,000 bachelor's degree programs

It is ceratinly doable if you look at a number of things:

Tuition, fees and books for four years average $31,696 at public universities in Texas,

Look at books. E-books certaiinly should be a much cheaper way to go. There is no reason that the price of boosk could not be reduced considerably.

Brick and mortar costs. Put more of the education online, even lectures. It can be interactive. Buidlings cost money. Outside of labs there is not much need for classrooms now days and most classroom stuff is handle by TAs anyway.

You could also cut things like the living in the dorm requirement imposed on many freshmen.In mny cases an of camus aprtment is cheaper.

But most importantly cut the bulls@t courses that have nothing to do with your major. For example an engineering student should not have to take a humanties or sociology course. I know it is sold by the college a giving you a "well rounded education" but let us be honest it is a money making venture for them and it creates jobs for professors whose field of study only offers them a chance of employment in academia. Many students would not not take the courses if they were not required.

Besides beign well rounded is a rather subjective thing anyway and most emplyers I knw odo not really car if the egneerign grad thay are hiring spent a semester in class sgoign over the vagina monolouges.


You may have a valid point, but I'm afraid I'm going to have to cite you for "Posting While Intoxicated".
 
2012-09-10 09:39:48 PM  

hasty ambush: Look at books. E-books certaiinly should be a much cheaper way to go. There is no reason that the price of boosk could not be reduced considerably.


There was no reason the price of books couldn't be reduced considerably before ebooks either. At one point, I had two editions of the same text. Biggest change they did was to reorder 1 in 4 of the problems so assignments given by the instructor would be incompatible with the older edition. Oh, and they changed the cover; maybe fixed a few errata.

But we live in a world where an ebook copy of a paperback is $15, so expect your electronic textbooks to be 90-110% the price of their physical counterparts and now have no resale value.

/Then act shocked when people share pdf copies.
 
2012-09-10 09:46:44 PM  

ProfessorOhki: hasty ambush: Look at books. E-books certaiinly should be a much cheaper way to go. There is no reason that the price of boosk could not be reduced considerably.

There was no reason the price of books couldn't be reduced considerably before ebooks either. At one point, I had two editions of the same text. Biggest change they did was to reorder 1 in 4 of the problems so assignments given by the instructor would be incompatible with the older edition. Oh, and they changed the cover; maybe fixed a few errata.

But we live in a world where an ebook copy of a paperback is $15, so expect your electronic textbooks to be 90-110% the price of their physical counterparts and now have no resale value.

/Then act shocked when people share pdf copies.


farking this. Textbooks have been a scam since I was an undergrad. Now they're offering extra online material that comes with a subscription that expires at the end of the term. They've discovered the software model of not selling, just renting for a while. If you buy a used textbook, you don't get access to that online material with it, you have to buy a brand new subscription, especially if the prof handles assignments through it. I chose not to use that for my courses this summer because I thought it was a ripoff (I did require clickers, but those are a one-time purchase that last all through university).
 
2012-09-10 10:11:37 PM  

rumpelstiltskin: sweetmelissa31: Something needs to be done about for-profit colleges. They account for 50% of defaults and only 10% of all colleges, plus their graduation rate is only 20%. Government loans should not be going to these colleges.

That's trickier than it sounds. For-profits target a different demographic than public and non-profit private post secondary schools. They also include vocational schools. All in all, they serve a "poorer" section of America, and the for-profits argue that government help is necessary for these people to have a chance at upward mobility.
As a misanthropist, my opinion is that if someone can't even get into BigState-U, that doesn't speak very well for his future prospects anyway. Maybe he should get used to living in the lower classes. But when I think of people more abstractly, without reference to any particular individuals, I accept the argument that everyone deserves a chance to try to better himself. So I think we should help the "students". If the people selling a better future fail to deliver it for, oh, 75% or so of their customers, then we take them out back and shoot them.


I don't know if it;s as true now, but I know a lot of older students who were lured in by for-profit schools. They were bored with their careers and wanted to make a change. My ex was from a generation that believe any education was good education and student loan debt was good debt. Some schools (like the Art Institute) were very effective at selling themselves as "high quality". My friends were graduating just as the economy tanked. Crappy job market, combined with private (not federal) student loans, and an overpriced degree = total financial meltdown. Add to that, Sallie Mae can't be discharged in a bankruptcy and partially owns the collection agencies that they use. So they make loans that completely defy lending standards and don't suffer the consequences.
 
2012-09-10 10:28:35 PM  
FTA, about half the "victims" seem to have followed a curious pattern:

"I keep changing my phone number," said Amanda Cordeiro, 29, from Clermont, Fla., who dropped out of college in 2010 and has fielded as many as seven calls a day from debt collectors trying to recover her $55,000 in overdue loans.

Mr. Chaskin had borrowed $3,500 in federally guaranteed student loans to attend Northwestern Michigan College, a community college. He did not graduate.

Jill Shockley, 36, of Rockford, Ill., owes more than $50,000 in federally guaranteed and private student loans, some of which are in default. A nursing school dropout, she said her loan servicer, Sallie Mae, asked her to come up with $600 a month to keep three of her federal loans from going into default.
 
2012-09-10 10:47:34 PM  

PsiChick:
Name one famous woman pre-America who isn't Joan of Arc. Without Google..


Hypatia, Octavia, Cleopatra, etc.

What the hell? You said you were autistic. I expected better!
 
2012-09-10 10:48:43 PM  

ProfessorOhki: hasty ambush: Look at books. E-books certaiinly should be a much cheaper way to go. There is no reason that the price of boosk could not be reduced considerably.

There was no reason the price of books couldn't be reduced considerably before ebooks either. At one point, I had two editions of the same text. Biggest change they did was to reorder 1 in 4 of the problems so assignments given by the instructor would be incompatible with the older edition. Oh, and they changed the cover; maybe fixed a few errata.

But we live in a world where an ebook copy of a paperback is $15, so expect your electronic textbooks to be 90-110% the price of their physical counterparts and now have no resale value.

/Then act shocked when people share pdf copies.


most of the materials for my MBA program were free, but then again my program was in an evil, Socialist Euro-land country
 
2012-09-10 11:01:20 PM  

TheDumbBlonde: PsiChick: TheDumbBlonde: PsiChick: hasty ambush: PsiChick:
Really?? GODDAMN, Girl. While you studying the Vagina Monologues, some of managed to study history. Most the major things that have gone down in history were because of, or the love/lust over, a woman. How about the Trojan War and the Church of England for starters. Cleopatra, The Queen of Sheba? They shook things up. Mary of Modena caused the Glorious Revolution. Catherine the Great?? You need to learn less about your own orgasms and learn about women whose orgasms changed the world.


I've never met anyone without a college education who could say any of the stuff people cite on here (save for the Eve troll, well played).

So yes. You could argue women's studies would be unnecessary for an country requiring college education levels. Pity we aren't that country...
 
2012-09-10 11:02:03 PM  

Serious Post on Serious Thread: make me some tea: basemetal: [i2.photobucket.com image 509x417]

*facepalm*

that's a shop you tard


That's the joke, tard.
 
2012-09-10 11:02:23 PM  

dumbobruni: ProfessorOhki: hasty ambush: Look at books. E-books certaiinly should be a much cheaper way to go. There is no reason that the price of boosk could not be reduced considerably.

There was no reason the price of books couldn't be reduced considerably before ebooks either. At one point, I had two editions of the same text. Biggest change they did was to reorder 1 in 4 of the problems so assignments given by the instructor would be incompatible with the older edition. Oh, and they changed the cover; maybe fixed a few errata.

But we live in a world where an ebook copy of a paperback is $15, so expect your electronic textbooks to be 90-110% the price of their physical counterparts and now have no resale value.

/Then act shocked when people share pdf copies.

most of the materials for my MBA program were free, but then again my program was in an evil, Socialist Euro-land country


Thank you for being the reason "international editions" exist :)
 
2012-09-10 11:05:17 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Nabb1: Yeah, those scumbags at Sallie Mae are tenacious. My wife's paperwork got mishandled during the last year of her residency and this little prick was calling ten times a day and just wouldn't take "it was a departmental screw-up and you know it because the hospital acknowledged it to you and is sending the proper paperwork in" and I finally let him have it with a sort of Steve Buscemi in "Fargo" "You're lord of your little booth" diatribe.

My Sallie Mae hate story: I am currently deferring my loans due to unemployment, but I am making interest-only payments on a couple of them. These payments are due the first of each month...BUT Sallie Mae, that bastion of banking and collections can't give me credit for my payments on the first. It takes "three to four days" to process them. As a result, I make all my payments on time and yet was still getting robocalls from them for four days telling me I was delinquent. I finally called them and asked if they would prefer a "cease and desist" letter, which I would be happy to FedEx that very day. No calls since.

My biggest beef is that they have my account number and routing number. They can check my account for the transfer immediately. EVERY OTHER online billing company can give you credit for posting an EFT payment the same day--why can't Sallie Mae do it? And if they can't, and the money has to be paid the 25th to post on the 1st....why isn't my payment day the 25th instead of the 1st?


Knowing Sallie Mae, they are delaying your payment to accumulate a few extra pennies of interest. May not sound like much. but when spread out over thousands of clients, it's a nice tidy profit.

They're also notorious for ignoring instructions to "apply extra to principle". Instead, they apply it to interest and move your payment date out. It's a scam on those who don't understand math.

It's amazing that students, who don't yet have a college education, can enter into financial loans that will cripple them financially for life.
 
2012-09-10 11:08:51 PM  
And Sappho, Helen, Nefertiti, Claudia, Berenice

Eleanor of Aquitaine
Wu Zetian, Empress of China

Then the Biblical matriarchs: Sarah, Rachel, Ruth, etc.

And God only knows how many Catholic and Shia saints are women. Being an atheist, I skipped the minor shiat.
 
2012-09-10 11:13:52 PM  
Even non-college educated folks know that Cleopatra was queen of Egypt, unless they're literally missing teeth.

And the Jesus freaks know all about Berenice, who was a historical personage attested in Roman and Jewish records. After all, you don't call for the head of the man who baptized Jesus without leaving an impression.

Then again, I have no black or Mexican friends, so my sample size of stupid may be slightly narrower than average.
 
2012-09-10 11:16:08 PM  
And congratulations on derailing the thread. You appealed to the Internet's one weakness: trying to sound smart.
 
2012-09-10 11:42:04 PM  

basemetal: Serious Post on Serious Thread: make me some tea: basemetal: [i2.photobucket.com image 509x417]

*facepalm*

that's a shop you tard

That's the joke, tard.


lol
 
2012-09-10 11:48:10 PM  
Darwin H. Christ! People are buying college "degrees" like snake oil. Notice how you can't get a Chemical Engineering undergrad at ANY of these for profit schools.

Some folks are too stupid to know any better that an MBA from Phoenix online will be a big waste of money and time. I say let 'em lean a hard lesson, and let us all take notes now.
 
2012-09-11 12:34:50 AM  
I have very nearly first hand experience with this issue. A close friend of mine used to work in student tech support for one of the big for profit college companies. Everyone he worked with knew the whole thing was a scam and even referred to their big corporate HQ building as 'the citadel of scams'. He said the most frequent thing callers said was 'I don't know anything about using computers'. Really? You're going to an online college and you have no idea how to use a computer? What drove him really crazy was that was actually a selling point. Don't know how to use a computer? No problem, we have 24/7 tech support to answer all your questions! Great for sales, terrible for the people who have to deal with the massive call volume that generates. He also had many callers that were older. He said he talked to people who were in their 70's that had been sold on the idea of going to college for 'personal enrichment'. At least they won't have to worry about paying the loans back! Most of the others were from rural and urban areas where opportunities were very limited and were sold on the idea that this was a way out.

He compared it to that commercial for the scooter store. The government has a program where they will pay for your scooter and the helpful guy says 'we guarantee to get you a scooter at no cost to you. If there's a way we'll find it!" The for profit colleges are the same way. It doesn't matter if you barely squeaked through high school or that GED exam. If there's a way to get you on the hook to sign up so they can collect tens of thousands of dollars from the government they'll find it!

Whether or not you graduate or find a job or anything else they couldn't possibly care less

The ancient technology of the student's machines not allowing them to do the work but because it may mean losing a potential customer they don't check that. Compatibility issues with Macs ignored and whenever asked 'is the college Mac compatible?' the answer was always 'absolutely' Again, don't want to miss out on that sale! The way the originality verification system klanked on every night assignments were due because it was run by a third party that didn't give a fark and whose infrastructure wasn't up to the volume of submissions. The "professors" who didn't even bother to grade student's work for weeks at a time or acted like total a-holes when they called in because they thought they knew more than the support staff. The students who only called with computer problems every time assignments were due.

Just some of the reasons he said he left.

/Yeah, he ranted about it a lot
//Entrance exams should be the college entrance equivalent of a credit check to get a mortgage
///College is not for everyone
 
2012-09-11 07:46:25 AM  

o5iiawah: Amazing to think that with the internet and the outright exponential speed at which information is shared worldwide that your local Big State U's costs are rising 3-4x the rate of inflation every year. I know this should come as a shock but..


Would you believe my institution distance education course cost MORE than on-campus classes?
 
2012-09-11 07:52:34 AM  

jmr61: So why SHOULDN"T they be entitled to what you agreed to pay them back?


Because sometimes that is simply not possible. In this job climate, a lot of people are coming out of college to find their degree is not doing what everyone promised it would do: Find them a job at a wage that would allow them to pay their loans back. A lot of these college grads, like me, are only being paid at subsistence levels. For me that $27K a year before taxes, and after four months of searching, this job (for which over 100 people applied) was the best I could find in a 10% unemployment climate.

Nor is Sallie Mae willing to work with people to create income based payment arrangements. They would rather go after retired grandparents instead.
 
2012-09-11 09:08:14 AM  
I don't care if it's a socially fair solution or not, the best way to fix the economy right now would be for the fed to pay off all existing student loans, creating a mass of young, educated, debt-free workers primed to create innovation and growth.
 
2012-09-11 10:54:36 AM  

beakerxf: Gyrfalcon: Nabb1: Yeah, those scumbags at Sallie Mae are tenacious. My wife's paperwork got mishandled during the last year of her residency and this little prick was calling ten times a day and just wouldn't take "it was a departmental screw-up and you know it because the hospital acknowledged it to you and is sending the proper paperwork in" and I finally let him have it with a sort of Steve Buscemi in "Fargo" "You're lord of your little booth" diatribe.

My Sallie Mae hate story: I am currently deferring my loans due to unemployment, but I am making interest-only payments on a couple of them. These payments are due the first of each month...BUT Sallie Mae, that bastion of banking and collections can't give me credit for my payments on the first. It takes "three to four days" to process them. As a result, I make all my payments on time and yet was still getting robocalls from them for four days telling me I was delinquent. I finally called them and asked if they would prefer a "cease and desist" letter, which I would be happy to FedEx that very day. No calls since.

My biggest beef is that they have my account number and routing number. They can check my account for the transfer immediately. EVERY OTHER online billing company can give you credit for posting an EFT payment the same day--why can't Sallie Mae do it? And if they can't, and the money has to be paid the 25th to post on the 1st....why isn't my payment day the 25th instead of the 1st?

Knowing Sallie Mae, they are delaying your payment to accumulate a few extra pennies of interest. May not sound like much. but when spread out over thousands of clients, it's a nice tidy profit.

They're also notorious for ignoring instructions to "apply extra to principle". Instead, they apply it to interest and move your payment date out. It's a scam on those who don't understand math.

It's amazing that students, who don't yet have a college education, can enter into financial loans that will cripple them financiall ...


Is there a way I can make sure they are following my "apply extra to principle" instructions? I currently pay double the minimum amount most months and always select that option.
 
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