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(Jacksonville.com)   Apparently, if you get into a fight with a co-worker, get your gun from your vehicle and shoot at him across rush hour traffic, "Stand Your Ground" will not be a successful defense at your trial. Who knew?   (jacksonville.com) divider line 75
    More: Followup, Jacksonville Taco Bell, stand your ground, rush hour traffic, Gordon Agenor, 2nd amendment, Jacksonville Sheriff's Office, assault weapons, witness testimony  
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6430 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Sep 2012 at 9:36 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-10 06:21:41 AM  
www.rojaksite.com

Perhaps if he'd tasted the rainbow?
 
2012-09-10 06:47:29 AM  
FFS, how many times must I remind you?

Stand your ground laws do not protect you if you are a black male. You WILL be going to jail
 
2012-09-10 06:50:52 AM  
Not his public defender, it seems.
 
2012-09-10 06:51:40 AM  
Who's missing from the politics troll brigade? That's our perp.
 
2012-09-10 06:53:58 AM  

doglover: Who's missing from the politics troll brigade? That's our perp public defender.


ftfm
 
2012-09-10 08:15:01 AM  
I'm OK with this outcome.

No laws in existence authorize a citizen to initiate a deadly encounter without reasonable belief that one's life is in danger. Nor are there any laws that authorize the continued use of deadly force by a citizen after the danger goes away.

Even if the guy's fear for his life during the fist-fight was reasonable, no amount of legal wrangling excuses shooting at someone who is trying to get away from you.

Gotta give the guy's lawyer credit for chutzpah though. It's practically self-evident that this wasn't a case covered by Stand Your Ground but he tried anyway. I'm willing to bet the perpetrator wasn't thinking about Stand Your Ground (or any other law) when he decided to shoot at the guy running across the street.
 
2012-09-10 09:30:30 AM  
He's Black?
 
2012-09-10 09:41:07 AM  
Stand Your Ground only applies to White People.
 
2012-09-10 09:41:08 AM  
We really don't have much information about why the altercation occurred. It could have been ongoing workplace harassment that finally culminated in this terrible incident.

But mandatory sentencing laws are going to see to it that this guy will be useless to society for the rest of his life.
 
2012-09-10 09:42:28 AM  
Black People Problems.
 
2012-09-10 09:42:34 AM  
Drop the Chalupa
 
2012-09-10 09:42:49 AM  
coco ebert: He's Black?

As you can see, some liberals are also retarded. It's just not the Teabaggers!!
 
2012-09-10 09:44:26 AM  

madgonad: Stand Your Ground only applies to White People.


Psst... Zimmerman isn't white...

/maybe he should have tried planting skittles on him...
 
2012-09-10 09:44:53 AM  
Wow
 
2012-09-10 09:48:12 AM  
Is the dumbass tag taking the day off?
 
2012-09-10 09:49:23 AM  

ComicBookGuy: coco ebert: He's Black?

As you can see, some liberals are also retarded. It's just not the Teabaggers!!


Or, you know, this is Fark and it's possible, just possible, that we're not entirely serious.
 
2012-09-10 09:49:37 AM  
This is an outrage! Defend and extend Stand your Ground!
 
2012-09-10 09:50:12 AM  
I don't blame him for trying. Stand your ground worked for someone who chased after his "attacker" and shot him in the back.

Link
 
2012-09-10 09:52:34 AM  
Lulz.

"Stand your ground" is for when some tard is burglarizing your house and you meet him in your underwear with a shotgun.
 
2012-09-10 09:56:04 AM  
The liberals told him it would protect him.
 
2012-09-10 09:56:12 AM  
Seems relatively clear cut to me. Not a case where this defense would work. It does seem like the defense attorney trying to use anything possible as he had nothing else. Witnesses, broad daylight, physical evidence, etc. Maybe the prosecution wasn't going to accept a plea or appeals for leniency (not that it seems likely any would be forthcoming), so this was the last gasp effort.
 
2012-09-10 09:58:19 AM  
OTOH, this article seems like the perfect use of firearms in self-defense. This was linked to in the same article as the one related to this thread.
 
2012-09-10 10:10:01 AM  
What a shame...he didn't even collect any loot.
 
2012-09-10 10:16:25 AM  
To be fair, here in Florida, he had about a 50/50 chance.
 
2012-09-10 10:17:45 AM  

Dynascape: Lulz.

"Stand your ground" is for when some tard blah guy is burglarizing your house standing anywhere you don't want him to stand and you meet leave your house and go find him in your underwear with a shotgun.


More accurate.
 
2012-09-10 10:18:19 AM  
Stand your ground needs to go away. In Ohio, you have the obligation to retreat. If you are pursued and threatened, you are justified to defend yourself. And it works just fine.
 
2012-09-10 10:27:00 AM  

Whole Wheat: Stand your ground needs to go away. In Ohio, you have the obligation to retreat. If you are pursued and threatened, you are justified to defend yourself. And it works just fine.


You are correct. An individual being threatened with violence will always be able to infallibly ascertain whether an attempt to escape without injury will succeed.
 
2012-09-10 10:32:31 AM  
This is the anti-gun liberal media's fault for using the term "stand your ground" incorrectly, on purpose, for months in relation to you-know-who, making sounds like it's a get out of jail free card for any psycho who shoots someone in cold blood.
 
2012-09-10 10:35:51 AM  

protectyourlimbs: madgonad: Stand Your Ground only applies to White People.

Psst... Zimmerman isn't white...

/maybe he should have tried planting skittles on him...


Reading isn't your specialty, is it.

The article came out AFTER Zimmerman, but talks about similar cases - especially one in Georgia (which also has Stand Your Ground) in which a black home owner was attacked by a white man with a knife that had previously threatened him. He shot the guy, and got life in prison.
 
2012-09-10 10:37:29 AM  

protectyourlimbs: Psst... Zimmerman isn't white...


And Zimmerman is white. Hispanic is not a race, it is an ethnicity. There are both black and white Hispanics. Zimmerman is a white Hispanic man.
 
2012-09-10 10:43:23 AM  
Stand your ground is a good law. It's not standing your ground if you go out and get a weapon then come back, when you chase someone down or when you shoot someone who is fleeing. Just because the defense attorney tried to use the stand your ground defense when it didn't apply is no reason to disparage a good law.
 
2012-09-10 10:44:32 AM  

ComicBookGuy: coco ebert: He's Black?

As you can see, some liberals are also retarded. It's just not the Teabaggers!!


All blacks are liberals?
 
2012-09-10 10:49:21 AM  

madgonad: protectyourlimbs: madgonad: Stand Your Ground only applies to White People.

Psst... Zimmerman isn't white...

/maybe he should have tried planting skittles on him...

Reading isn't your specialty, is it.

The article came out AFTER Zimmerman, but talks about similar cases - especially one in Georgia (which also has Stand Your Ground) in which a black home owner was attacked by a white man with a knife that had previously threatened him. He shot the guy, and got life in prison.


Georgia having a similar law to the one in Florida, doesn't make the two situations identical. It may not be apples and oranges, but it's definitely apples and tomatoes at least.
 
2012-09-10 10:49:32 AM  
Brown ran across Atlantic when he saw the weapon, and Agenor fired at him three times "during broad daylight and rush hour traffic," prosecutors said. Agenor said he was trying to "wound" Brown.

At least four lanes of traffic, two shoulders, maybe some parking lanes and likely two sidewalks with a moving target -

surprising there aren't a few dead.
 
2012-09-10 10:50:51 AM  
*reads TFT*

Derp factor 10, Mr. Sulu.
 
2012-09-10 10:51:45 AM  

Dimensio: Whole Wheat: Stand your ground needs to go away. In Ohio, you have the obligation to retreat. If you are pursued and threatened, you are justified to defend yourself. And it works just fine.

You are correct. An individual being threatened with violence will always be able to infallibly ascertain whether an attempt to escape without injury will succeed.


It is perfectly reasonable to force people to flee from their own house when they are in danger. Otherwise a burglar could get hurt.
 
2012-09-10 10:57:47 AM  

Wert789: Stand your ground is a good law. It's not standing your ground if you go out and get a weapon then come back, when you chase someone down or when you shoot someone who is fleeing. Just because the defense attorney tried to use the stand your ground defense when it didn't apply is no reason to disparage a good law.


I'll admit that there are certain circumstances where it can save otherwise innocent people from harm, but I think that the way it's written is far too general and is thus used by people who are seeking a confrontation. IIRC, there was a guy who was upset about the noise level at a neighbor's party, so instead of asking nicely for them to quiet down or just calling the police with a noise complaint, he got his gun and went to the house and started being very confrontational with the neighbor. The neighbor, predictably, acted in a confrontational manner in response, so the guy drew his gun and shot him. Again, if I'm remembering this correctly, he wasn't prosecuted.
 
2012-09-10 11:08:17 AM  
Maybe he needed a kill'n..oh wait, it wasn't Texas.
 
2012-09-10 11:09:04 AM  

Quaker: Wert789: Stand your ground is a good law. It's not standing your ground if you go out and get a weapon then come back, when you chase someone down or when you shoot someone who is fleeing. Just because the defense attorney tried to use the stand your ground defense when it didn't apply is no reason to disparage a good law.

I'll admit that there are certain circumstances where it can save otherwise innocent people from harm, but I think that the way it's written is far too general and is thus used by people who are seeking a confrontation. IIRC, there was a guy who was upset about the noise level at a neighbor's party, so instead of asking nicely for them to quiet down or just calling the police with a noise complaint, he got his gun and went to the house and started being very confrontational with the neighbor. The neighbor, predictably, acted in a confrontational manner in response, so the guy drew his gun and shot him. Again, if I'm remembering this correctly, he wasn't prosecuted.



That was the Texas case of Paul Rodriguez in Texas and he WAS convicted of murder.

A Texas jury rejected a retired firefighter's claim that the state's stand-your-ground law gave him the right to shoot and kill an unarmed neighbor for allegedly playing loud music during a party.

The jury sided with the prosecutors and voted to convict Rodriguez of murder


And


HOUSTON (June 27, 2012)-Retired firefighter Paul Rodriguez, 46, who argued that the state's version of a stand-your-ground law allowed him to shoot a neighbor to death after an argument about a noisy party, was sentenced Wednesday to 40 years in prison for murder.
 
2012-09-10 11:19:11 AM  

umad: Dimensio: Whole Wheat: Stand your ground needs to go away. In Ohio, you have the obligation to retreat. If you are pursued and threatened, you are justified to defend yourself. And it works just fine.

You are correct. An individual being threatened with violence will always be able to infallibly ascertain whether an attempt to escape without injury will succeed.

It is perfectly reasonable to force people to flee from their own house when they are in danger. Otherwise a burglar could get hurt.


People are more valuable than property.

Stand your ground is horrible because it's entirely possible that both sides can use it as a justification. If you have a duty to retreat, it's pretty rare that both sides would be unable to retreat.
 
2012-09-10 11:32:14 AM  
The fact that someone can even attempt this defense in this situation, and that it's news that it didn't work, is pretty indicative of how bad the law is.
 
2012-09-10 11:32:29 AM  

Whole Wheat: Stand your ground needs to go away. In Ohio, you have the obligation to retreat. If you are pursued and threatened, you are justified to defend yourself. And it works just fine.


So in Ohio as long as you can outrun your wife and kids you personally have nothing to worry about. Duty to Retreat is requiring a victim to paint a target on their back and die tired.
 
2012-09-10 11:33:00 AM  

The Jami Turman Fan Club: umad: Dimensio: Whole Wheat: Stand your ground needs to go away. In Ohio, you have the obligation to retreat. If you are pursued and threatened, you are justified to defend yourself. And it works just fine.

You are correct. An individual being threatened with violence will always be able to infallibly ascertain whether an attempt to escape without injury will succeed.

It is perfectly reasonable to force people to flee from their own house when they are in danger. Otherwise a burglar could get hurt.

People are more valuable than property.

Stand your ground is horrible because it's entirely possible that both sides can use it as a justification. If you have a duty to retreat, it's pretty rare that both sides would be unable to retreat.


An individual who has illegally forced entry into my home with criminal intent is in fact substantially less valuable than my property.
 
2012-09-10 11:36:28 AM  

Moosecakes: The fact that someone can even attempt this defense in this situation, and that it's news that it didn't work, is pretty indicative of how bad the law is.


You are correct: that the law does not legalize reckless endangerment demonstrates a failing of the law.
 
2012-09-10 11:40:12 AM  

Quaker: Wert789: Stand your ground is a good law. It's not standing your ground if you go out and get a weapon then come back, when you chase someone down or when you shoot someone who is fleeing. Just because the defense attorney tried to use the stand your ground defense when it didn't apply is no reason to disparage a good law.

I'll admit that there are certain circumstances where it can save otherwise innocent people from harm, but I think that the way it's written is far too general and is thus used by people who are seeking a confrontation. IIRC, there was a guy who was upset about the noise level at a neighbor's party, so instead of asking nicely for them to quiet down or just calling the police with a noise complaint, he got his gun and went to the house and started being very confrontational with the neighbor. The neighbor, predictably, acted in a confrontational manner in response, so the guy drew his gun and shot him. Again, if I'm remembering this correctly, he wasn't prosecuted.


Before you claim that it is too general and needs to be changed it might be a good idea to, you know. READ what the law actually says instead of being mislead by a bunch of people who just might have an agenda. Google is your friend and the law is not that long or convoluted. Less than 10 minutes will put you ahead of 90% of the people who have an opinion and it will be all your own.
 
2012-09-10 11:45:21 AM  

Moosecakes: The fact that someone can even attempt this defense in this situation, and that it's news that it didn't work, is pretty indicative of how bad the law is.


This may be the single dumbest thing I have ever read in my life.
 
2012-09-10 11:46:06 AM  
single
 
2012-09-10 11:52:04 AM  

Whole Wheat: Stand your ground needs to go away. In Ohio, you have the obligation to retreat. If you are pursued and threatened, you are justified to defend yourself. And it works just fine.


Ohio is a castle doctrine state, and forgetting to bring that up invariably brings out the derp. Duty to retreat only applies in public areas. In fact, only a few states have weak or no Castle Doctrine at all, and most people are surprised that California isn't one of them.
 
2012-09-10 11:52:33 AM  

coco ebert: ComicBookGuy: coco ebert: He's Black?

As you can see, some liberals are also retarded. It's just not the Teabaggers!!

Or, you know, this is Fark and it's possible, just possible, that we're not entirely serious.


Jokes aren't allowed in gun threads. Just hyperbole and strawmen.
 
2012-09-10 11:54:16 AM  

The Jami Turman Fan Club: it's pretty rare that both sides would be unable to retreat.


Duty to retreat presumes that you've both got the ability and the opportunity to break off the encounter. Where as a mugger operates around the concept of not letting you go until you've been deprived of your stuff. A burglar enters your property and DTR displaces you, not him. A person bent on hurting you isn't just going to let you walk away.

I prefer SYG because I believe I have the right to be where I am. The person threatening to assault me or steal my things does not.
 
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