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(CNN)   After the Democratic and Republican conventions, the Libertarians now get the spotlight   (cnn.com) divider line 135
    More: Interesting, Somalia, al-Shabab, Republican convention, transitional government, African Union  
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1106 clicks; posted to Politics » on 10 Sep 2012 at 8:41 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-10 06:42:03 AM  
Yes subby, because anarchy and limited government are EXACTLY the same thing.
/-1
 
2012-09-10 08:19:26 AM  

mikemoto: Yes subby, because anarchy and limited government are EXACTLY the same thing.
/-1


No, they aren't really. Libertarians want a police force to keep the workers from going after the rich who will ruthlessly exploit them in a Libertarian situation, so it isn't complete anarchy.
 
2012-09-10 08:36:58 AM  
Libertarianism would only work if they had control of the entire government. And by "work", I mean it would not achieve a single goal otherwise. I think that if they ever took over the Government we would have to move to Canada because the US would cease to be a functioning entity.
 
2012-09-10 08:42:39 AM  
Did the unlikely tag move to Somali?
 
2012-09-10 08:43:40 AM  

mikemoto: Yes subby, because anarchy and limited government are EXACTLY the same thing.
/-1


Libertarians are anarchists who want the police to protect them from their slaves.
 
2012-09-10 08:44:12 AM  
And the spotlight will be turned off.
 
2012-09-10 08:44:36 AM  

mikemoto: Yes subby, because anarchy and limited government are EXACTLY the same thing.
/-1


"Limited government" is a funny way of spelling "just the stuff that helps me out"....
 
2012-09-10 08:44:38 AM  
The very small, mostly ignored spotlight
 
2012-09-10 08:45:31 AM  
I never understood it all to be honest. Seriously questions for Libertarians. Aren't there tons of countries out there with governments so small you can literately rape a baby? How are they doing and why would it be different here?
 
2012-09-10 08:45:40 AM  
You know, the more I read up on the policy positions of Sheikh Sharif Sheikh Ahmed, I gotta say he seems a pretty reasonable alternative to Romney. I mean, first off, he isn't Mormon.
 
2012-09-10 08:47:07 AM  
I would love to see a Libertarian convention, it would be a week of solid laughs.
 
2012-09-10 08:48:29 AM  

spelletrader: would love to see a Libertarian convention, it would be a week of solid laughs.


I think it would be awesome seeing the attendees organizing themselves in the stands. I mean, how cool is that?
 
2012-09-10 08:54:07 AM  

spelletrader: I would love to see a Libertarian convention, it would be a week of solid laughs.


Honestly i think we ought to give the kids a chance, if anything we'll get some hilarious memes out of it. If they derp harder than the RNC then the Libertarians have no hope.

If we held the DNC in Charlotte....and the RNC in Tampa...whee should we hold the LNC? I vote for Portland, let's see what happens when Libertarians collide with Hipsters.
 
2012-09-10 08:54:30 AM  
wallpaperswide.com
 
2012-09-10 08:58:40 AM  

devek: I never understood it all to be honest. Seriously questions for Libertarians. Aren't there tons of countries out there with governments so small you can literately rape a baby? How are they doing and why would it be different here?


Most of those countries have an ongoing conflict that prevents a strong central government, not an intentionally weak central government and the conflict itself usually is a pretty stifling economic factor.

The fact is that the most economically free nations in the world are some of the most successful if your only measure is income (if all you measure us by is spare income the U.S. is far and away #1 even if you're not wealthy by U.S. standards... just don't sick).... of course, what the libertarians griping about the U.S. gleefully ignore is that America is in the top 10 of all nations by both measures. If these folks wanted to leave for a "better place" according their economic ideals, here's the only other 9 options they have on the whole planet according to the Heritage Foundation:

1 Hong Kong 89.9
2 Singapore 87.5
3 Australia 83.1
4 New Zealand 82.1
5 Switzerland 81.1
6 Canada 79.9
7 Chile 78.3
8 Mauritius 77.0
9 Ireland 76.9
 

If they want overall freedom from government... well, then, yea, it's pretty much disease-filled shiatholes like Somalia because when people refuse to work together that's what the region turns into: a disease-filled shiathole.
 
2012-09-10 09:02:40 AM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: If they want overall freedom from government... well, then, yea, it's pretty much disease-filled shiatholes like Somalia because when people refuse to work together that's what the region turns into: a disease-filled shiathole.


But they are able to use phosphorous in their dish soap!



FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDOM!!
 
2012-09-10 09:06:27 AM  
Somalia to pick president, set up first stable govt. in 21 years

Good luck (sincerely), but I won't hold my breath.
 
mhd
2012-09-10 09:07:23 AM  

mikemoto: Yes subby, because anarchy and limited government are EXACTLY the same thing.


Since when does "libertarian" mean "limited government" instead of straight-forward anarcho-capitalism? (Which still wouldn't be its original meaning, but considering what the US did to the term "liberal" I don't really want to go there.)

/Then again, I would be disappointed if there would be a definition of some anarchist term that people agree on
 
2012-09-10 09:09:39 AM  

devek: I never understood it all to be honest. Seriously questions for Libertarians. Aren't there tons of countries out there with governments so small you can literately rape a baby? How are they doing and why would it be different here?


That's a gross oversimplification of Libertarianism. In the headline? Funny. In your post? Weird.

It's about decentralization of government. Which is crazy in some of its own special ways, but it's not "turn this biatch out and let's get all Somalia on these muf'ks." It's more: you have more control over your local government than you do over national government because your vote is less diffuse. So by decentralizing government power and granting more power to those entities you have direct control over, you are effectively made more free and more empowered in self-governance."

Which is a fancy way of saying "you could vote for Somalia if you wanted, but it's gonna be confined to your shiatty little neighborhood... with any luck."

Oh, and Silver Dimes (tm).

/It's a silly philosophy for silly people who have honestly good ideas.
//Alternatively it's The Least Pragmatic Political Movement Since Communist Russia.
 
2012-09-10 09:14:31 AM  
Vegan Meat Popsicle
disease-filled shiatholes like Somalia because when people refuse to work together that's what the region turns into: a disease-filled shiathole.

Being repeatedly invaded and subjugated by foreign empires over the course of hundreds of years has nothing to do with the breakdown in society, I'm sure. Nope, they're just incapable of cooperation... probably because of genetics.


theknuckler_33
Good luck (sincerely), but I won't hold my breath.

And all it took was multiple invasions by several surrounding countries backed by the world's only superpower. But the "Somali" government is totally legit. Totally.
 
2012-09-10 09:16:20 AM  
scrapetv.com
 
2012-09-10 09:17:29 AM  

RanDomino: Being repeatedly invaded and subjugated by foreign empires over the course of hundreds of years has nothing to do with the breakdown in society, I'm sure. Nope, they're just incapable of cooperation... probably because of genetics.


I don't mean to alarm you, but you might be a moron.
 
2012-09-10 09:21:11 AM  

devek: I never understood it all to be honest. Seriously questions for Libertarians. Aren't there tons of countries out there with governments so small you can literately rape a baby? How are they doing and why would it be different here?


Not a Libertarian, far from it, but Libertarian philosophy is always clear that you need a small, strong government. Without a police force to protect law and order, a strong court system to enforce contracts, and a military to keep your country from being overrun, you won't create the climate the free market is seen as succeeding in.

Take Hong Kong for example. It's a country where literally only rich businessmen have the vote, so it's probably the best example of Libertarianism we have in action. A very strong police force (jaywalking is a serious offense - I'm not joking), a military provided by the PRC, and a good courts system, which provides a climate that leads to tons of business in finance, global trade, and so forth.

Of course, if you're poor, it's one of the worst places in East Asia you can be, so if you're not a rich banker, it's not a great place to be.
 
2012-09-10 09:22:33 AM  

Expolaris: spelletrader: I would love to see a Libertarian convention, it would be a week of solid laughs.

Honestly i think we ought to give the kids a chance, if anything we'll get some hilarious memes out of it. If they derp harder than the RNC then the Libertarians have no hope.

If we held the DNC in Charlotte....and the RNC in Tampa...whee should we hold the LNC? I vote for Portland, let's see what happens when Libertarians collide with Hipsters.


The speeches would be a goldmine! It could be held pretty much anywhere on the "left coast" for a good chuckle, but somewhere in Texas would probably be the best fit.
 
2012-09-10 09:23:59 AM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: I don't mean to alarm you, but you might be a moron.


No, he's definitely a moron.
 
2012-09-10 09:24:29 AM  
No, the Republicans already had their convention.
 
2012-09-10 09:35:01 AM  

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: Not a Libertarian, far from it, but Libertarian philosophy is always clear that you need a small, strong government. Without a police force to protect law and order, a strong court system to enforce contracts, and a military to keep your country from being overrun, you won't create the climate the free market is seen as succeeding in.


Good luck with the military. An effective, defensive military requires that people be trained and equipped during times of peace and be willing to defend regions other than their own locality. That sort of thinking doesn't last long in a libertarian environment. If you don't believe me, think of the US as a libertarian confederation of states and then raise the issue of where to train and how to equip a standing military sufficient for national defense. If your solution doesn't immediately devolve into paralysis and infighting you've assumed far too much altruism.

Take Hong Kong for example. It's a country where literally only rich businessmen have the vote, so it's probably the best example of Libertarianism we have in action. A very strong police force (jaywalking is a serious offense - I'm not joking), a military provided by the PRC, and a good courts system, which provides a climate that leads to tons of business in finance, global trade, and so forth.

Hong Kong is a prime example of why libertarianism cannot stand on its own. If was formed by the British Empire and protected by the British (and by extension NATO) until it was taken under China's wing. Hong Kong never had to field a strong military because it's always been a protectorate.
 
2012-09-10 09:49:20 AM  

devek: I never understood it all to be honest. Seriously questions for Libertarians. Aren't there tons of countries out there with governments so small you can literately rape a baby? How are they doing and why would it be different here?


We rape twice in America from what past fark threads have told me, only once is frowned upon. So we'll be ahead there....
 
2012-09-10 09:51:10 AM  

GAT_00: No, they aren't really. Libertarians want a police force to keep the workers from going after the rich who will ruthlessly exploit them in a Libertarian situation, so it isn't complete anarchy.


Jesus farking God you are dumber that a sack of hammers. As are quite a few others in this thread.

Here, let me help you with that. (pay close attention to #2)

LOL Somalia!
 
2012-09-10 09:52:02 AM  
Aside from the loony privatize everything loonies. Libertarians sound like fiscally conservative dovish democrats. It's a big tent, why not join the Dems?
 
2012-09-10 09:53:47 AM  

Dancin_In_Anson: ruthlessly


Please identify one society in human history that has met your definition of "Libertarian".
 
2012-09-10 09:53:48 AM  

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: devek: I never understood it all to be honest. Seriously questions for Libertarians. Aren't there tons of countries out there with governments so small you can literately rape a baby? How are they doing and why would it be different here?

Not a Libertarian, far from it, but Libertarian philosophy is always clear that you need a small, strong government. Without a police force to protect law and order, a strong court system to enforce contracts, and a military to keep your country from being overrun, you won't create the climate the free market is seen as succeeding in.

Take Hong Kong for example. It's a country where literally only rich businessmen have the vote, so it's probably the best example of Libertarianism we have in action. A very strong police force (jaywalking is a serious offense - I'm not joking), a military provided by the PRC, and a good courts system, which provides a climate that leads to tons of business in finance, global trade, and so forth.

Of course, if you're poor, it's one of the worst places in East Asia you can be, so if you're not a rich banker, it's not a great place to be.


It's weird. I always figured libertarians were just classical liberals, meaning they felt the government's job is to protect its citizens from being harmed by others. I just thought they had an unusually narrow definition of "harm." But your definition makes a lot more sense based on what they actually tend to do.
 
2012-09-10 09:57:38 AM  
There is no constitutional basis for spotlights. People should either buy their own spotlights and bring them to the convention or some will be available to rent from a private vendor.
 
2012-09-10 10:07:52 AM  

Philip Francis Queeg: Please identify one society in human history that has met your definition of "Libertarian".


The United States of America through the 19th century.
 
2012-09-10 10:09:22 AM  

Dancin_In_Anson: Here, let me help you with that. (pay close attention to #2)


Tucker Carlson's website is not a valid source of information on this topic. Try again.

Protip: "sourcing" doesn't mean casting aimlessly about on Google until you come up with something that says what you want to hear, it means finding a valid source and seeing what it has to say.

Not that I expect you to acknowledge this reality, of course.
 
2012-09-10 10:10:48 AM  

Dancin_In_Anson: Philip Francis Queeg: Please identify one society in human history that has met your definition of "Libertarian".

The United States of America through the 19th century.


www.wttw.com
 
2012-09-10 10:14:30 AM  

PDid: Aside from the loony privatize everything loonies. Libertarians sound like fiscally conservative dovish democrats. It's a big tent, why not join the Dems?


Because, in reality, Libertarians are Republicans who like to smoke weed and don't want to affiliate themselves with Bush.

They'll screech otherwise, but I've never met one who doesn't fit this definition.
 
2012-09-10 10:14:52 AM  

Dancin_In_Anson: Philip Francis Queeg: Please identify one society in human history that has met your definition of "Libertarian".

The United States of America through the 19th century.


What "Libertarian" looks like to DIA.

www.sjsapush.comhttp://www.continuetolearn.uiowa.edu/laborctr/child_labor/img/break er_ boys.jpg sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.netwww.bluecorncomics.comwww.novanumismatics.com
 
2012-09-10 10:15:44 AM  
Libertarians are all just Republicans. Deal with it.
 
2012-09-10 10:16:33 AM  

Philip Francis Queeg: Dancin_In_Anson: Philip Francis Queeg: Please identify one society in human history that has met your definition of "Libertarian".

The United States of America through the 19th century.

What "Libertarian" looks like to DIA.

[www.sjsapush.com image 295x340]http://www.continuetolearn.uiowa.edu/laborctr/child_labor/img/ break er_ boys.jpg [sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net image 154x176][www.bluecorncomics.com image 550x313][www.novanumismatics.com image 210x210]


I don't think hotlinking was an especially egregious problem in the 19th century.
 
2012-09-10 10:17:26 AM  

sprawl15: Philip Francis Queeg: Dancin_In_Anson: Philip Francis Queeg: Please identify one society in human history that has met your definition of "Libertarian".

The United States of America through the 19th century.

What "Libertarian" looks like to DIA.

[www.sjsapush.com image 295x340]http://www.continuetolearn.uiowa.edu/laborctr/child_labor/img/ break er_ boys.jpg [sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net image 154x176][www.bluecorncomics.com image 550x313][www.novanumismatics.com image 210x210]

I don't think hotlinking was an especially egregious problem in the 19th century.


Thomas Jefferson was a notorious hotlinker.
 
2012-09-10 10:18:19 AM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: "Limited government" is a funny way of spelling "just the stuff that helps me out"....


Actually, it's a very straightforward way of saying that the government shouldn't be allowed to do whatever it wants, and that the things it is allowed to do should be clearly enumerated and codified.

I doubt there is a single person on Fark who is not in favor of limited government.
 
2012-09-10 10:19:44 AM  

Dancin_In_Anson: Philip Francis Queeg: Please identify one society in human history that has met your definition of "Libertarian".

The United States of America through the 19th century*.


*offer not valid nationwide for black people and women

// but prostitution and weed were legal, so there's that
 
2012-09-10 10:20:22 AM  

Fluorescent Testicle: Because, in reality, Libertarians are Republicans who like to smoke weed and don't want to affiliate themselves with Bush.


There are also the ones with Asperger's-level understanding of human relations. They're often found in tech jobs.
 
2012-09-10 10:23:40 AM  

Koalacaust: Actually, it's a very straightforward way of saying that the government shouldn't be allowed to do whatever it wants, and that the things it is allowed to do should be clearly enumerated and codified. I doubt there is a single person on Fark who is not in favor of limited government.


Yes, that's the dictionary definition. Similarly, the dictionary definition of "Fiscally conservative" is also a good thing.

However, we're talking about the Republican definition here. To them, "Limited government" = "No EPA, no regulations, but let's go ahead and ban every personal right we can think of" and "Fiscally conservative" = "Tax cuts for the rich and a defense budget that's more bloated than Christie's and Limbaugh's asses put together."
 
2012-09-10 10:24:16 AM  
The silliest thing about libertarianism is that it doesn't take into account the concept of information asymmetry. It assumes every contract will be entered into by two perfectly informed parties, and uses the tension between these parties to form a stable web of interdependence.
 
2012-09-10 10:26:06 AM  

ghare: Libertarians are all just Republicans. Deal with it.


images3.wikia.nocookie.net
"But who is this 'Republican' of whom you speak? My name's Libertarian!"
 
2012-09-10 10:28:49 AM  

Dr Dreidel: *offer not valid nationwide for black people and women


Ahhhh yes. When all else fails narrow it down to slavery...which ended in 1863 (65 if you want to split hairs).
 
2012-09-10 10:32:47 AM  

BeesNuts: you have more control over your local government than you do over national government because your vote is less diffuse


dialecticalreasoning.com
BUT . . . BUT . . . OUR VOTES ARE LESS DIFFUSE!


/I know you weren't arguing for libertarianism per se
//just wanted to make that point
 
2012-09-10 10:33:02 AM  

EyeballKid: "But who is this 'Republican' of whom you speak? My name's Libertarian!"


This is so accurate and obvious that I'm surprised I hadn't thought of it before, so +1 awesome.
 
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