Marine1: Gdalescrboz: If i was Canada/Europe i would elimate my military entirely knowing the US will cover for them

Most of Europe already has, just without actually paying us to cover for them. Those idiots actually ran out of bombs during the NATO Libyan campaign.

Again, for full emphasis, here's the situation:

A group of first-world countries with post-industrial economies and stable governments who are all members of an alliance that could supposedly stop a belligerent Russia ran out of munitions during a month-long air-only campaign to fight a mostly beaten dictator of a third-world hell hole after rebels and the US had softened the enemy up.

Back during the Bush years, one of the NATO members refused to send troops to Afghanistan on the grounds that the work was "too dangerous".

The US and Canada are the only two countries that seem to take their NATO membership seriously anymore. I know that a lot of Farkers would rather that the European members spent their money on social programs (as they've been apt to do since the beginning of the postwar era), but it's high time that those nations covered their obligations under international treaty. If they decide to let the US cover their defense, then they need to pay up for the bill such a defense costs.

Sir, you speak wisdom. The NATO countries (with the exception of the Brits, who didn't start cutting bone until the last few years) unilaterally disarmed as soon as the Soviets Russians gave up. The only reason they keep any military units at all is because we still send them money to do so. The only reason the French bought their new nuclear carrier and the Rafale fighter is because they were committed to paying the money (the relationship between the French defense industry and government makes ours look downright moral and upright).

Marine1: chuckufarlie: LoneWolf343: Pribar: Actually they probably will lose the fight, modern battlespace is not the dogfight of the past,

How many times has this been said, then jets have to be retrofitted with guns because they keep getting into dogfights?

What current jet fighter in any modern nation's AF does not have guns?

F-4 Phantom.

want to try again?

Think my uncle was part of the design team for the arrow, he's a retired Boeing engineer, moved to Canada from the UK in the 50's then moved to the USA when Avro shut the project down.

Gdalescrboz: If i was Canada/Europe i would elimate my military entirely knowing the US will cover for them

That sounded great, until we read Machiavelli.

PunGent: Personally, I think the future is drones.

(sadly, since I'm a pilot myself)

War is just armed economics. If my platform costs less than the missile you need to shoot it down...

The USAF will never get to the point when all of the pilots are replaced. It would destroy their infrastructure and that would mean a lot less flag officers.

The AF has made a career of getting over on Congress. It should not be called the DOD, it is actually the DDD.

The Army plays Dumb, the Air Force is Devious, and the Navy is Defiant.

ClavellBCMI: ineedfark: How about we make you a heckofva deal on a bunch of slightly used F-16s and F-18s.

Canada already flies both airplanes, they are trying to replace them.

We fly F-16s? Since when?

Arnprior Joe: ClavellBCMI: ineedfark: How about we make you a heckofva deal on a bunch of slightly used F-16s and F-18s.

Canada already flies both airplanes, they are trying to replace them.

We fly F-16s? Since when?

SHHHH, it is a secret. The USA sold them to Canada but told you that they are f-18s. Yea, they do not look a lot like each other but it worked.

There is a deal in the works now that passes off old SPADs as killer drones.

I am Canadian

Currently resting in my bed in Beijing China (I live in both nations, but I am Canadian PROUDLY), surrounded by ancient artwork and furniture, returning to my home in British Columbia tomorrow.

I hate the F35 project, I resent ANY of my tax dollars being sent to the US military industrial system.

The United States fascination with warfare is a danger to all mankind. NOBODY should help them fund development of weapons. The US is the most dangerous nation on earth primarily because of the immaturity of their culture. NOBODY should encourage them. EVERYBODY should shun them. The faster the US economy is destroyed the better mankind will be. I will strive for this goal with no love lost.

Slartibartfaster: I am Canadian

Currently resting in my bed in Beijing China (I live in both nations, but I am Canadian PROUDLY), surrounded by ancient artwork and furniture, returning to my home in British Columbia tomorrow.

I hate the F35 project, I resent ANY of my tax dollars being sent to the US military industrial system.

The United States fascination with warfare is a danger to all mankind. NOBODY should help them fund development of weapons. The US is the most dangerous nation on earth primarily because of the immaturity of their culture. NOBODY should encourage them. EVERYBODY should shun them. The faster the US economy is destroyed the better mankind will be. I will strive for this goal with no love lost.

You are a precious little snowflake, aren't you?!?!?

Just remember that it there was no USA, Canaduh would be part of Russia or China.

Slartibartfaster: I am Canadian

Currently resting in my bed in Beijing China (I live in both nations, but I am Canadian PROUDLY), surrounded by ancient artwork and furniture, returning to my home in British Columbia tomorrow.

I hate the F35 project, I resent ANY of my tax dollars being sent to the US military industrial system.

The United States fascination with warfare is a danger to all mankind. NOBODY should help them fund development of weapons. The US is the most dangerous nation on earth primarily because of the immaturity of their culture. NOBODY should encourage them. EVERYBODY should shun them. The faster the US economy is destroyed the better mankind will be. I will strive for this goal with no love lost.

"Oh look sweetie, it's a retarded!"

"Now now, Janet, don't get too close. You don't want to catch whatever that thing has..."

chuckufarlie: Just remember that it there was no USA, Canaduh would be part of Russia or China

Russia
China
USA

Can you name ONE of these nations that has invaded Canada ? Just one. There is only one.

And we retaliated.... guess WHY your white house is painted white

clear_prop: ClavellBCMI: ineedfark: How about we make you a heckofva deal on a bunch of slightly used F-16s and F-18s.

Canada already flies both airplanes, they are trying to replace them.

Both are still in production, and do the job just fine. Even tossing in the upgraded avionics, an upgraded F-16/F-15/F-18 is a much better deal than an F-35.

The costs on the F-35 are so high that you can buy a bunch of F-16s, F-15s or F-18s for the price of one F-35. Even with advanced stealth, F-35s aren't invisible. The Chinese took down that F-117 in Yugoslavia, and I'm sure they advanced their anti-stealth techniques. Having a small fleet of super planes doesn't do you much good when the enemy can defeat the plane's super powers.

The F-117 is not even in the same league as the F-22, or F35 (for the most part) in terms of technology used and "Stealthiness". Eagles using an APG-63 AESA radar can't even see the F-22 and China is nowhere close to having an air based or ground bases radar system that comes close to what we have.

Other than that, the F-35 is a super waste. If we have to have another single engine fighter, just keep on trucking with the F-16.

Slartibartfaster: chuckufarlie: Just remember that it there was no USA, Canaduh would be part of Russia or China

Russia
China
USA

Can you name ONE of these nations that has invaded Canada ? Just one. There is only one.

yes, and the other two never have because they know that Canaduh is protected by the USA.

As for that invasion, once the US troops got a good look at Canaduh, they decided they did not want it.

clutchcargo2002: clear_prop: ClavellBCMI: ineedfark: How about we make you a heckofva deal on a bunch of slightly used F-16s and F-18s.

Canada already flies both airplanes, they are trying to replace them.

Both are still in production, and do the job just fine. Even tossing in the upgraded avionics, an upgraded F-16/F-15/F-18 is a much better deal than an F-35.

The costs on the F-35 are so high that you can buy a bunch of F-16s, F-15s or F-18s for the price of one F-35. Even with advanced stealth, F-35s aren't invisible. The Chinese took down that F-117 in Yugoslavia, and I'm sure they advanced their anti-stealth techniques. Having a small fleet of super planes doesn't do you much good when the enemy can defeat the plane's super powers.

The F-117 is not even in the same league as the F-22, or F35 (for the most part) in terms of technology used and "Stealthiness". Eagles using an APG-63 AESA radar can't even see the F-22 and China is nowhere close to having an air based or ground bases radar system that comes close to what we have.

Other than that, the F-35 is a super waste. If we have to have another single engine fighter, just keep on trucking with the F-16.

the idea is that you want to field aircraft that are superior to what your potential enemy is flying. The F-35 fits that the F-16 does not.

Slartibartfaster: And we retaliated.... guess WHY your white house is painted white

Because BRITISH troops burnt down a building with no military significance. BRITISH, not canadian.

Slartibartfaster: chuckufarlie: Just remember that it there was no USA, Canaduh would be part of Russia or China

Russia
China
USA

Can you name ONE of these nations that has invaded Canada ? Just one. There is only one.

You mean British North America? I remember us invading that.

Things have changed a bit since then. I recommend you try reading something other than the works of Mao and expand your knowledge a bit.

Also, good luck with the cancer you're bound to get from the air you're breathing in while staying in Beijing.

Enemabag Jones: Is there any reason why a capable but relatively cheap su-27 would not do the trick? Why rebuild it form the ground up?


It's a political non-starter for Canada to purchase a Russian aircraft. Renting Antonovs and Ilyushins for transport is ok, but there's a reason we bought C-17s. It's the same reason we ignored the Czechs when they offered us L-39s to replace the Tutors the Snowbirds fly.

Marine1: You mean British North America? I remember us invading that

In case you have not noticed - We are still British.

Marine1: Also, good luck with the cancer you're bound to get from the air you're breathing in while staying in Beijing

It beats the shiat out of living in Michegan.
Or eating American food.

Ignorance and Arrogance will be the downfall of the USA.

I support this idea.

Slartibartfaster: I am Canadian

Currently resting in my bed in Beijing China (I live in both nations, but I am Canadian PROUDLY), surrounded by ancient artwork and furniture, returning to my home in British Columbia tomorrow.

I hate the F35 project, I resent ANY of my tax dollars being sent to the US military industrial system.

The United States fascination with warfare is a danger to all mankind. NOBODY should help them fund development of weapons. The US is the most dangerous nation on earth primarily because of the immaturity of their culture. NOBODY should encourage them. EVERYBODY should shun them. The faster the US economy is destroyed the better mankind will be. I will strive for this goal with no love lost.

The US tried to maintain an isolationist policy but the Brits (you included) and the French did everything in their power to get us involved in WWI.

Then we tried to go back to minding our own business but the Brits (including you) and the French screwed up the peace treaty so badly that Germany wanted revenge. Then, being with out gonads, you all ignored everything that Hitler did to re-arm and you ended up in another war of your making. And once again, you did everything you could to get us involved.

The USA lost a lot of good men (less than you, granted) in pulling your fat out of the fire so we decided in 1945 that we better keep an eye on you morons so you would not start another world war. It was a better idea that let you run your own business and then beg us to fix another problem of your making.

Slartibartfaster: chuckufarlie: Just remember that it there was no USA, Canaduh would be part of Russia or China

Russia
China
USA

Can you name ONE of these nations that has invaded Canada ? Just one. There is only one.

I KNOW!!!! War of 1812. US invaded Canada and had their asses handed to them.
Then, against orders, Canadian soldiers and farmers marched to Washington and set the White House on fire.
All facts - all true.

Slartibartfaster: Marine1: You mean British North America? I remember us invading that

In case you have not noticed - We are still British.

Marine1: Also, good luck with the cancer you're bound to get from the air you're breathing in while staying in Beijing

It beats the shiat out of living in Michegan.
Or eating American food.

Ignorance and Arrogance will be the downfall of the USA.

British North America and Canada are quite different. Again, read up on your history. Canada didn't exist as the modern entity we know today until 1867.

Apparently, you don't know how to spell, either. It's Michigan.

sno man: chuckufarlie: Slartibartfaster: I am Canadian

Currently resting in my bed in Beijing China (I live in both nations, but I am Canadian PROUDLY), surrounded by ancient artwork and furniture, returning to my home in British Columbia tomorrow.

I hate the F35 project, I resent ANY of my tax dollars being sent to the US military industrial system.

The United States fascination with warfare is a danger to all mankind. NOBODY should help them fund development of weapons. The US is the most dangerous nation on earth primarily because of the immaturity of their culture. NOBODY should encourage them. EVERYBODY should shun them. The faster the US economy is destroyed the better mankind will be. I will strive for this goal with no love lost.

You are a precious little snowflake, aren't you?!?!?

Just remember that it there was no USA, Canaduh would be part of Russia or China.

He's a tree huggin' pot smokin' left coaster.... What's your excuse?

I don't need one. I am a blood thirsty American, armed to the teeth. I do not need an excuse.

Not Amused!

vygramul: TuteTibiImperes: clevershark: The F35 is the biggest white elephant in US military procurement history. The costs and schedule overruns on it are so bad the only reason to continue backing the project, realistically speaking, is if you're being bribed to do so.

What was the reason for developing the F-22 and the F-35 at basically the same time? Do we need the F-35 because the F-22 isn't designed to land on aircraft carriers? Could the F-22 be modified to allow that to happen?

Generally speaking, you have to design the plane to land on carriers to begin with. You can't just modify them.


The F-22 is way too expensive to maintain. The F-35 is much cheaper. At least it is much cheaper for the US military.

Given all our Canada jokes, I'm OK with a less than well armed RCAF. You know, with their beady little eyes & flapping heads...

/Just kidding, eh?

He isn't amused

Gregosaurus: Given all our Canada jokes, I'm OK with a less than well armed RCAF. You know, with their beady little eyes & flapping heads...

/Just kidding, eh?

Is it true that Red Green is the head of weapons development for the RCAF?

and... the link dusted off into a bunch of coding errors

TuteTibiImperes: clevershark: The F35 is the biggest white elephant in US military procurement history. The costs and schedule overruns on it are so bad the only reason to continue backing the project, realistically speaking, is if you're being bribed to do so.

What was the reason for developing the F-22 and the F-35 at basically the same time? Do we need the F-35 because the F-22 isn't designed to land on aircraft carriers? Could the F-22 be modified to allow that to happen?

Canada doesn't have any aircraft carriers so that's a moot point.

Slartibartfaster: Marine1: You mean British North America? I remember us invading that

In case you have not noticed - We are still British.



Strange that my passport says Canada. Canada severed the last non-ceremonial ties in 1982. There's a huge difference between being British, and being a member of the Commonwealth. 

An argument could be made that the militia in Upper Canada were effectively Canadian, but there's 55 years between 1812 and 1867, You're not going to convince many people that the British regulars were Canadian.


Why are we arguing about shiat that happened 200 years ago?

mbillips: The Avro Arrow is the Tucker Torpedo of military aircraft. Technology fetishists of a conspiratorial bent always exaggerate its capabilities. It's too big, too unmaneuverable and too visible to radar to be an effective modern fighter-bomber, even with updated avionics and engines.

The Tucker Torpedo was the Milton Missile of aircraft design. It was absolutely useless in its advertised roles, and entirely too expensive to risk losing in combat.

clevershark: TuteTibiImperes: clevershark: The F35 is the biggest white elephant in US military procurement history. The costs and schedule overruns on it are so bad the only reason to continue backing the project, realistically speaking, is if you're being bribed to do so.

What was the reason for developing the F-22 and the F-35 at basically the same time? Do we need the F-35 because the F-22 isn't designed to land on aircraft carriers? Could the F-22 be modified to allow that to happen?

Canada doesn't have any aircraft carriers so that's a moot point.

No amphibious assault ships, either?

IIRC, that's what the USMC wants a VTOL F-35 for so badly... to replace the Harrier.

Arnprior Joe: Slartibartfaster: Marine1: You mean British North America? I remember us invading that

In case you have not noticed - We are still British.



Strange that my passport says Canada. Canada severed the last non-ceremonial ties in 1982. There's a huge difference between being British, and being a member of the Commonwealth. 

An argument could be made that the militia in Upper Canada were effectively Canadian, but there's 55 years between 1812 and 1867, You're not going to convince many people that the British regulars were Canadian.


Why are we arguing about shiat that happened 200 years ago?

Because if you are from canaduh, you have to go back that far to find something to be proud of. And that was a half-assed attempt by a small percentage of the US Army to invade canaduh. Every day I thank God that they failed.

vygramul: chuckufarlie: vygramul: TuteTibiImperes: clevershark: The F35 is the biggest white elephant in US military procurement history. The costs and schedule overruns on it are so bad the only reason to continue backing the project, realistically speaking, is if you're being bribed to do so.

What was the reason for developing the F-22 and the F-35 at basically the same time? Do we need the F-35 because the F-22 isn't designed to land on aircraft carriers? Could the F-22 be modified to allow that to happen?

Generally speaking, you have to design the plane to land on carriers to begin with. You can't just modify them.


The F-22 is way too expensive to maintain. The F-35 is much cheaper. At least it is much cheaper for the US military.

The F-35 has a better electronics suite, too. But both are way, way better than anything out there, and both are needed.

the F-35 can handle any situation just as well as the F-22 can.

Tellingthem: Arnprior Joe: Slartibartfaster: Marine1: You mean British North America? I remember us invading that

In case you have not noticed - We are still British.



Strange that my passport says Canada. Canada severed the last non-ceremonial ties in 1982. There's a huge difference between being British, and being a member of the Commonwealth. 

An argument could be made that the militia in Upper Canada were effectively Canadian, but there's 55 years between 1812 and 1867, You're not going to convince many people that the British regulars were Canadian.


Why are we arguing about shiat that happened 200 years ago?

Because it is Fark and we have nothing better to do?

We have a winner.

/who will receive JACK SHIAT for his prize

sno man: chuckufarlie: sno man: [you don't need to read this again]

He's a tree huggin' pot smokin' left coaster.... What's your excuse?

I don't need one. I am a blood thirsty American, armed to the teeth. I do not need an excuse.

Clowns to the left, Jokers to the right...

that must leave you terribly perplexed.

sno man: chuckufarlie: Arnprior Joe: Slartibartfaster: Marine1: You mean British North America? I remember us invading that

In case you have not noticed - We are still British.



Strange that my passport says Canada. Canada severed the last non-ceremonial ties in 1982. There's a huge difference between being British, and being a member of the Commonwealth. 

An argument could be made that the militia in Upper Canada were effectively Canadian, but there's 55 years between 1812 and 1867, You're not going to convince many people that the British regulars were Canadian.


Why are we arguing about shiat that happened 200 years ago?

Because if you are from canaduh, you have to go back that far to find something to be proud of. And that was a half-assed attempt by a small percentage of the US Army to invade canaduh. Every day I thank God that they failed.

You're not very good at history are you?

I am very good at history, canaduh has done very little to be proud of in a military sense.

Slartibartfaster: I am Canadian

Currently resting in my bed in Beijing China (I live in both nations, but I am Canadian PROUDLY), surrounded by ancient artwork and furniture, returning to my home in British Columbia tomorrow.

I hate the F35 project, I resent ANY of my tax dollars being sent to the US military industrial system.

The United States fascination with warfare is a danger to all mankind. NOBODY should help them fund development of weapons. The US is the most dangerous nation on earth primarily because of the immaturity of their culture. NOBODY should encourage them. EVERYBODY should shun them. The faster the US economy is destroyed the better mankind will be. I will strive for this goal with no love lost.

You come off as just as big of a tool as the people you hate. Hope you know that.