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(NPR)   It's not about the test scores. What's important is that school builds character   (npr.org) divider line 91
    More: Unlikely, stress response, school ages, The Stages of Life  
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5833 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Sep 2012 at 4:12 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-09 02:17:48 PM
The rats who as babies were licked and groomed did much better on all sorts of things when they reached adulthood. They were braver, more curious; it had actually changed the shape of certain parts of their brains.

Sorry science, I'm not licking my children.

/unless they're born dill pickle flavoured
 
2012-09-09 02:51:41 PM

miss diminutive: The rats who as babies were licked and groomed did much better on all sorts of things when they reached adulthood. They were braver, more curious; it had actually changed the shape of certain parts of their brains.

Sorry science, I'm not licking my children.

/unless they're born dill pickle flavoured



I may have misunderstood the article, but I'm not taking any chances- in order to build their confidence, I'm going to make all my kids lick as many rats as I can catch.
 
2012-09-09 03:00:10 PM

FloydA: miss diminutive: The rats who as babies were licked and groomed did much better on all sorts of things when they reached adulthood. They were braver, more curious; it had actually changed the shape of certain parts of their brains.

Sorry science, I'm not licking my children.

/unless they're born dill pickle flavoured


I may have misunderstood the article, but I'm not taking any chances- in order to build their confidence, I'm going to make all my kids lick as many rats as I can catch.


But I thought the rats have to lick the kids?
 
2012-09-09 03:13:02 PM

Via Infinito:

But I thought the rats have to lick the kids?


That's just silly; who wants a bunch of brave, curious, self-confident rats running around a school? They can't even pay tuition!
 
2012-09-09 03:14:22 PM
Carrying a hall pass when you have to pee builds character?

Yeah, I met a lot of characters in high school.

The crazy old hall monitor lady with too much make up on was one.
We had a megalomaniac principal who valued football over grades.
We had cool foreign language teachers who knew how to teach the value of ignoring the above adults and imparting us with a sense of "get the hell out of here and go somewhere exotic."
We had a music teacher that thought Sondheim was god, probably fapped to Freddy Mercury posters at lunch.
We had mean girls, and stoners. Freaks, and bullies. We had poor kids, and we had a lot of rich assholes.

I learned a lot from the foreign language instructors.

Character. It goes on your permanent record.

I was pretty cool, though. We could smoke on school property, and lots of girls didn't wear bras.
 
2012-09-09 03:21:16 PM
Okay I've got the tape wrapped around the rats, read me the next part again...
 
2012-09-09 03:31:00 PM

Barfmaker: Okay I've got the tape wrapped around the rats, read me the next part again...


Put the lime in the coconut.
 
2012-09-09 03:31:04 PM

Via Infinito: FloydA: miss diminutive: The rats who as babies were licked and groomed did much better on all sorts of things when they reached adulthood. They were braver, more curious; it had actually changed the shape of certain parts of their brains.

Sorry science, I'm not licking my children.

/unless they're born dill pickle flavoured


I may have misunderstood the article, but I'm not taking any chances- in order to build their confidence, I'm going to make all my kids lick as many rats as I can catch.

But I thought the rats have to lick the kids?


Well, who knew the secret of academic success was this?

creativephotographymagazine.com

All the more reason to promote Raturday being every day--and when I had squeakbeasts, I was licked enough that I should be positively bursting with character :D

And I hereby declare this a Raturday Thread. This tiny bruxbeast demands MOAR PICS:

melktertontwerp.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-09-09 04:15:04 PM
fta A child's success can't be measured in IQ scores, standardized tests or vocabulary quizzes, says author Paul Tough. Success, he argues, is about how young people build character.

You mean there's an opposing argument?
 
2012-09-09 04:16:44 PM

vudukungfu: Barfmaker: Okay I've got the tape wrapped around the rats, read me the next part again...

Put the lime in the coconut.


You put your left foot in.
 
2012-09-09 04:17:51 PM
I know I'll be going out on a limb here, but why can't it be both?
 
2012-09-09 04:19:21 PM
Can it be made legal that children be reassigned responsible parents?
 
2012-09-09 04:20:19 PM

Notabunny: vudukungfu: Barfmaker: Okay I've got the tape wrapped around the rats, read me the next part again...

Put the lime in the coconut.

You put your left foot in.


Hey, macarena!
 
2012-09-09 04:21:10 PM
"A child's success can't be measured in IQ scores, standardized tests or vocabulary quizzes, says author Paul Tough. Success, he argues, is about how young people build character."

Translation - My little Johnnie can't compete academically.
 
2012-09-09 04:24:43 PM
Just leave him in public school. All that annoying desire to succeed wil be stamped out of him.
 
2012-09-09 04:27:31 PM
I was still in high school in 2009. The emphasis then was on 1.) test scores, 2.) test scores, and 3.) test scores. The tragedy was that ultimately the test scores meant nothing. Many of my classmates knew this, and they just bubbled in their answers randomly, so that they could spend the rest of the testing time sleeping. Pass the test, fail the test, you were still promoted, and no one was ever held back, or even given remedial instruction.

There was a girl in my class who refused to touch her tests. She never even put her name on the sheet. She failed all her classes, and still graduated along with the rest of us.

/The tests were a complete waste of time.
//The only group that profits from the tests are the companies who create and score the tests.
 
2012-09-09 04:27:44 PM

LeroyBourne: I know I'll be going out on a limb here, but why can't it be both?


Or why can't it be important that some people have high test scores and that some people have good character and that some people have both?
 
2012-09-09 04:27:49 PM

arasmin: "A child's success can't be measured in IQ scores, standardized tests or vocabulary quizzes, says author Paul Tough. Success, he argues, is about how young people build character."

Translation - My little Johnnie can't compete academically.


I don't know. My take on that was something like: "Pllpltpltllptttt. Braptpltpltpltpltllllttttl. PLTPLT."

I mean, really. All he's doing is debating the definition of "success".
 
2012-09-09 04:28:26 PM
www.nytmare.org
 
2012-09-09 04:28:57 PM

LeroyBourne: I know I'll be going out on a limb here, but why can't it be both?


You might be on to something here. Hmmm. It just might work. The rats lick the kids and the kids lick the rats!
 
2012-09-09 04:29:22 PM
I graduated cosmetology school! Yay!
 
2012-09-09 04:32:06 PM
 
2012-09-09 04:32:53 PM
Right now we've got an education system that really doesn't pay attention to [noncognitive] skills at all. ... I think schools just aren't set up right now to try to develop things like grit, and perseverance and curiosity.

Gee, I didn't know Ric Romero was into education!

On a more serious note, it didn't used to be like this. Back back back in the mists of time...pre-Prop 13, in California anyway...when schools had money for that kind of thing, my schools were bursting with curiosity-inspiring things. Like in my high school bio class, we got to dissect one of everything, from worms to frogs, on our way up the evolutionary scale; and in senior Anatomy/Physiology it was fetal pigs. Everyone wanted Anat/Phyis because of those fetal pigs. When I was in middle school, we put on our own Shakespeare Festival one year.

Of course, we didn't have teachers whose love of teaching had been beat out of them by contradictory regulations (you can't grade them, but make sure they learn everything!), or administrators who couldn't discipline troublemakers, or have to spend two weeks a year doing STARS and CAHSEE exams...I wonder what the difference is now.
 
2012-09-09 04:33:44 PM

the_chief: I graduated cosmetology school! Yay!


I'm confused, is the author saying kids should get sexually abused by a relative, or by rats?
 
2012-09-09 04:35:37 PM

moof: the_chief: I graduated cosmetology school! Yay!

I'm confused, is the author saying kids should get sexually abused by a relative, or by rats?


I can wash your hair.
 
2012-09-09 04:37:05 PM

the_chief: moof: the_chief: I graduated cosmetology school! Yay!

I'm confused, is the author saying kids should get sexually abused by a relative, or by rats?

I can wash your hair.


..Uncle Jimmy?
 
2012-09-09 04:37:30 PM
Bad teachers don't like standardised tests.
This is because their teaching efforts can be quantified and evaluated.

Good teachers do like standardised tests.
This is because their teaching efforts can be quantified and evaluated.
 
2012-09-09 04:39:32 PM

Via Infinito: I may have misunderstood the article, but I'm not taking any chances- in order to build their confidence, I'm going to make all my kids lick as many rats as I can catch.

But I thought the rats have to lick the kids?


my pet rat licked me when i was little and i got real smart for a little while but then i lost it

i miss algernon

/im skared.
 
2012-09-09 04:40:20 PM
I think there's lots of evidence out there now that says that these other strengths, these character strengths, these noncognitive skills, are at least as important in a child's success and quite possibly more important

Character strengths are still cognitive skills, but not in the traditional sense where cognitive skills refers to intelligence which is synonymous with studious and bookish. Leadership, motivation, creativity, and similar are all aspects of cognition. Those still involve processing of sensory data, retrieval of information, problem identification and solving, and so forth. Cognition and intelligence have changed, and vary greatly by discipline, but to popular thought those are rigid and simple terms.

Right now we've got an education system that really doesn't pay attention to [noncognitive] skills at all.

Because the people who designed the education system were all academics. The academics succeeded in schooling, went further with schooling, and therefore were chosen to create a system for schooling which inevitably reflected academics. After, we have a bunch of idiots making decisions on education who have this nonevolving conception of education as a solely academic pursuit which works one way.

No reason we should see the date of manufacture of a child as basically the sole determination of placement. No reason therefore we should see progression through the system as an annual event encompassing all disciplines. But, of course, we are not designed for this.
 
2012-09-09 04:41:37 PM
What? Well doggone it, and here I studied and did all that homework for nothing! Like a sucker! Gaaarrggghhh!!!!
 
2012-09-09 04:42:17 PM

FloydA: LeroyBourne: I know I'll be going out on a limb here, but why can't it be both?

You might be on to something here. Hmmm. It just might work. The rats lick the kids and the kids lick the rats!


It's what I'd teach a kid to do, be kind, courteous and respectful to the rat that just licked you, lick it back.
 
2012-09-09 04:43:08 PM
Well, there should be more character building in High School.

This way we wouldn't have people like Ted Kennedy getting expelled from Harvard for cheating.
 
2012-09-09 04:54:35 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: Well, there should be more character building in High School.

This way we wouldn't have people like Ted Kennedy getting expelled from Harvard for cheating.


Well, this is relevant.
 
2012-09-09 04:58:32 PM

letrole: Bad teachers don't like standardised tests.
This is because their teaching efforts can be quantified and evaluated.

Good teachers do like standardised tests.
This is because their teaching efforts can be quantified and evaluated.


1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-09-09 04:58:44 PM
A person can have all the character in Hollywood and still be as dumb as a box of hair.
 
2012-09-09 05:02:19 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: Well, there should be more character building in High School.

This way we wouldn't have people like Ted Kennedy getting expelled from Harvard for cheating.


K-12 would be good, too. A lot of pre-k and primary kids television programming emphasizes character building and social skills. Formally including that in the classroom is a good idea.
 
2012-09-09 05:04:06 PM

LeroyBourne: I know I'll be going out on a limb here, but why can't it be both?


You know if this pr!ck ever needs open heart surgery he won't demand the surgeon with the most character.
 
2012-09-09 05:07:33 PM

neenerist: LeroyBourne: I know I'll be going out on a limb here, but why can't it be both?

You know if this pr!ck ever needs open heart surgery he won't demand the surgeon with the most character.


You mean the one who is able to coordinate a team and remains calm and steady, including when there is an emergency? No, I want the guy with the test scores.
 
2012-09-09 05:13:39 PM

Vangor: neenerist: LeroyBourne: I know I'll be going out on a limb here, but why can't it be both?

You know if this pr!ck ever needs open heart surgery he won't demand the surgeon with the most character.

You mean the one who is able to coordinate a team and remains calm and steady, including when there is an emergency? No, I want the guy with the test scores.


You guys make me happy.
 
2012-09-09 05:18:31 PM

Snarfangel: my pet rat licked me when i was little and i got real smart for a little while but then i lost it

i miss algernon

/im skared.


All these years later and I've never understood the point to that book. Thanks, I finally get it. Can you explain all the other ones I ignored for me?
 
2012-09-09 05:23:06 PM
I don't like the idea of character building in school. Let the kids play D&D on their own time.
 
2012-09-09 05:25:40 PM

Agent Smiths Laugh: A person can have all the character in Hollywood and still be as dumb as a box of hair.


THIS

Well, sorta...

I've met smart and dumb people in both the "street" and academic senses of the word. Some were good people and some were not.

Many of the arguments I've heard regarding 'ivory tower elites' and/or 'home-schooled mouth-breathers' often seemed to have a subtle unspoken notion: good people were smart and/or educated; bad people were dumb. I've definitely seen this academia. I suspect it happens elsewhere with the roles reversed.

Frankly, the more I go through life the more I care about someone's character than their politics, sexuality, race, education, or intelligence.
 
2012-09-09 05:28:10 PM

Vangor: You mean the one who is able to coordinate a team and remains calm and steady.....

That's the one, not the student focused on honing the actual skills and procedures.
 
2012-09-09 05:31:22 PM

Vanis: Agent Smiths Laugh: A person can have all the character in Hollywood and still be as dumb as a box of hair.

THIS

Well, sorta...

I've met smart and dumb people in both the "street" and academic senses of the word. Some were good people and some were not.

Many of the arguments I've heard regarding 'ivory tower elites' and/or 'home-schooled mouth-breathers' often seemed to have a subtle unspoken notion: good people were smart and/or educated; bad people were dumb. I've definitely seen this academia. I suspect it happens elsewhere with the roles reversed.

Frankly, the more I go through life the more I care about someone's character than their politics, sexuality, race, education, or intelligence.


Some of the dumbest people on the planet have Ivy League educations. One of the smartest guys I know never went to college. "Smartness" or intelligence has nothing to do with whether you aced your exit exams and got a fancy piece of paper hanging over your desk--it's whether you can take facts and apply them to life.

More to your point, some very evil people are brilliant (cf. Bernie Madoff) and some of the best, most wonderful people are dumb as a sack of broken alarm clocks. Good/bad and smart/dumb aren't exclusive of each other.
 
2012-09-09 05:38:05 PM
Notabunny:
fta A child's success can't be measured in IQ scores, standardized tests or vocabulary quizzes, says author Paul Tough. Success, he argues, is about how young people build character.

You mean there's an opposing argument?

Of course not -- any of the rats in the study, if licked enough to bolster their self-esteem sufficiently, could easily earn a doctorate in astrophysics.
It's ALL in the handling of the student. Nurture, nurture, nurture.
 
2012-09-09 05:42:18 PM

RickN99: Notabunny: vudukungfu: Barfmaker: Okay I've got the tape wrapped around the rats, read me the next part again...

Put the lime in the coconut.

You put your left foot in.

Hey, macarena!


Can't touch this.
 
2012-09-09 05:43:09 PM

Vangor: the people who designed the education system were all academics.


Not quite.

The school system is the nuclear wasteland left over from years of competing politics battling it out using kids as pawns coupled with the strong desire to not have to pay for a babysitter.
 
2012-09-09 05:44:07 PM

FizixJunkee: RickN99: Notabunny: vudukungfu: Barfmaker: Okay I've got the tape wrapped around the rats, read me the next part again...

Put the lime in the coconut.

You put your left foot in.

Hey, macarena!

Can't touch this.


Alright: stop, collaborate and listen.
 
2012-09-09 05:44:10 PM

neenerist: Vangor: You mean the one who is able to coordinate a team and remains calm and steady.....
That's the one, not the student focused on honing the actual skills and procedures.


Except you build character through authentic learning experiences which would be, in the case of a surgeon, actual actual skills and procedures. Further, you assume the high test scores result from honing skills and procedures.
 
2012-09-09 05:45:40 PM
neenerist:
Vangor: You mean the one who is able to coordinate a team and remains calm and steady.....
That's the one, not the student focused on honing the actual skills and procedures.

Right. You want the team calm and collected while you die on the table from malpractice. NOBODY needs panic.
 
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