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(Philly.com)   A massive battle will soon be fought at Gettysburg. Who do you suppose will win this time?   (philly.com) divider line 62
    More: Followup, Gettysburg, Randy L. Phiel, qualifications, first shots, Battle of Gettysburg, Robert E. Lee, local community, July Morning  
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3358 clicks; posted to Geek » on 09 Sep 2012 at 2:39 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



62 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2012-09-09 01:19:42 PM  
Rocky.
 
2012-09-09 01:27:21 PM  
The vendors. Not so much the people selling the cheesy wall hangers at the shops, but the factory retails outlet stores and the food courts. The guys dressed like Lincoln won't make too much, and the tips won't bee too good at the older places in town, where parking is difficult for fat people, but the food places at the factory retails outlet malls that sell jeans and jewelry will make out huge. Farking fat assed tourists. That is what the battle was all about, apparently. Out ability to stuff our faces. Sure, the quaint, little winery will sell a few cases, but the soft pretzel franchise folks will be sending their kids to a nice school.
 
2012-09-09 02:40:03 PM  
WalMart?
 
2012-09-09 02:44:44 PM  
They should throw a real life MMORPG there or a furry palooza
 
2012-09-09 02:46:03 PM  
The Germans?
 
2012-09-09 02:46:58 PM  
Note to self, send smore schnapps to gettysburg next year.
 
2012-09-09 02:52:01 PM  

vudukungfu: The vendors. Not so much the people selling the cheesy wall hangers at the shops, but the factory retails outlet stores and the food courts. The guys dressed like Lincoln won't make too much, and the tips won't bee too good at the older places in town, where parking is difficult for fat people, but the food places at the factory retails outlet malls that sell jeans and jewelry will make out huge. Farking fat assed tourists. That is what the battle was all about, apparently. Out ability to stuff our faces. Sure, the quaint, little winery will sell a few cases, but the soft pretzel franchise folks will be sending their kids to a nice school.


Not sure if serious or just cranky
 
2012-09-09 02:54:16 PM  
I was at one of the reenactments a few years ago. Truly a memorial to what kind of slaughter Americans vs Americans can accomplish.
 
2012-09-09 03:01:53 PM  
the south shall rise again!
 
2012-09-09 03:03:24 PM  

Holocaust Agnostic: the south shall rise again!


Well, that's what Whack-a-Mole is all about.
 
2012-09-09 03:03:39 PM  
DRTFA but I'd assume the lawyers on both sides.
 
2012-09-09 03:08:10 PM  
There used to be a hobby shop in Las Vegas where they had enough room for us wargamers to play wargames. The front of the store was taken up by a gaming table which was four plywood sheets on sawhorses laid side to side. Us wargamers played everything from Napoleonics to WWII to Vietnam (very popular because half the crew were Vietnam vets) with miniatures from 15mm to 28mm scale.

But the anniversary of Gettysburg was very special because it was played out in miniature in the store in as close as realtime as possible, with multiple wargamers on both sides playing generals. It was a big deal. History and hobby magazines as far away as Japan used to send reporters to cover the annual event. And my names was on the waiting list to play a general for almost a decade.

But then this Bush economy did in the hobby shop and I never got my chance to play general.
 
2012-09-09 03:11:22 PM  
Our Sith overlords, of course.

/supreme diggity.
 
2012-09-09 03:18:03 PM  
Civil War reenactments always give me the impression of some really depressing cosplay.
 
2012-09-09 03:22:03 PM  

styckx: Not sure if serious or just cranky


Serious as a blood drenched field full of 16 year old boys.
Cranky by default because I've lived through 16 presidential elections.
It's not old that makes you cranky, it's an ignorance of history and bullshiat being shoveled at you from on high that does it.
 
2012-09-09 03:22:57 PM  

Coelacanth: Us wargamers played everything from Napoleonics to


I used to play Napoleonics in college with several friends, each taking the role of different generals/officers. A single battle could take two days and a night. That is a LOT of fun.
 
2012-09-09 03:27:57 PM  

red5ish: Coelacanth: Us wargamers played everything from Napoleonics to

I used to play Napoleonics in college with several friends, each taking the role of different generals/officers. A single battle could take two days and a night. That is a LOT of fun.


your fat, aren't you?

/You're fat, aren't you?
 
2012-09-09 03:29:34 PM  
The Goblins will kick everyone ass as long as Gwaihir the Windlord and his army of giant eagles don't show up.
 
2012-09-09 03:34:53 PM  

vudukungfu: styckx: Not sure if serious or just cranky

Serious as a blood drenched field full of 16 year old boys.
Cranky by default because I've lived through 16 presidential elections.
It's not old that makes you cranky, it's an ignorance of history and bullshiat being shoveled at you from on high that does it.


That would make you either 60 or 64, depending on if you're counting the current election. Me, I was born when Eisenhower was president, so the first election I remember was Kennedy's.
 
2012-09-09 03:35:17 PM  

vudukungfu: red5ish: Coelacanth: Us wargamers played everything from Napoleonics to

I used to play Napoleonics in college with several friends, each taking the role of different generals/officers. A single battle could take two days and a night. That is a LOT of fun.

your fat, aren't you?

/You're fat, aren't you?


Not particularly, but I am probably older than you. When I was in college computers were the size of locomotives and the games you could play on a UNIX mainframe were limited. We played table-top wargames, and they were fun.
 
2012-09-09 03:40:54 PM  

Coelacanth: But then this Bush economy did in the hobby shop and I never got my chance to play general.


Sad story, bro.
 
2012-09-09 03:41:30 PM  
I wonder if any group, so dedicated, can long endure
 
2012-09-09 03:43:33 PM  

Fano: I wonder if any group, so dedicated, can long endure


I doubt the world will little note or long remember this reenactment.
 
2012-09-09 03:44:25 PM  
i.ytimg.com
I want to see this guy in July heat huff and puff his way up to Cemetery Ridge.
 
2012-09-09 03:45:44 PM  
The confeds have 3 stunners this time, so they'll prob win. Oh, and mage-hunter.

In this case, Confeds=Scourge
 
2012-09-09 03:51:20 PM  
Lest we forget, here's Lincoln's speech:
Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation, conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.
Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation, so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.
But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate, we can not consecrate, we can not hallow this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us-that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion-that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain-that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom-and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.


Probably the best known Lincoln speech, ironic because of the line: The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here.
 
2012-09-09 03:57:01 PM  

simplicimus: The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here.


So he was wrong.
 
2012-09-09 03:58:30 PM  

vudukungfu: simplicimus: The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here.

So he was wrong.


Well, he was a Republican.
 
2012-09-09 04:13:15 PM  
It'll be Canada, and we'll never see it coming.
 
2012-09-09 04:24:08 PM  
Depends which one gets to Little Round Top first, and if the Confederate sharpshooters at Devil's Den can pick off Chamberlain.

/also, send drones with napalm against the Union lines before Pickett's Charge
 
2012-09-09 04:35:27 PM  
All hail the 1st Minnesota.
 
2012-09-09 04:44:31 PM  
If you want to understand Gettysburg, play Gettysburg: Scourge of War from Norbsoftdev. A very accurate simulation that plays like a more sophisticated (in terms of accuracy and control, not grapics) Total War tactical battle. They've released a battle pack for Antietam also. Scenarios allow you to control everything from a single brigade to most of the armies, and the AI is quite good, it will definitely punish any mistakes you make.

Tutorial
More ingame
 
2012-09-09 04:56:57 PM  

Marine1: Our Sith overlords, of course.

/supreme diggity.


I'm Darth Nnoying.

/tell my mom I'll be at the pretzel stand.
 
2012-09-09 05:06:45 PM  
Gettysburg, the reason we cant get re-enactors at Vicksburg..
 
2012-09-09 05:20:44 PM  

shakespear: Gettysburg, the reason we cant get re-enactors at Vicksburg..


I'd love to see that. One of my ancestors, a Confederate, managed to dessert twice from the siege.
 
2012-09-09 05:40:50 PM  

simplicimus: shakespear: Gettysburg, the reason we cant get re-enactors at Vicksburg..

I'd love to see that. One of my ancestors, a Confederate, managed to dessert twice from the siege.


us.123rf.com
 
2012-09-09 06:40:40 PM  
The makers of Jagerminz S'more-flavored Schnapps?
 
2012-09-09 06:41:46 PM  

Hawnkee: The Germans?


They're too busy bombing Pearl Harbor
 
2012-09-09 06:57:10 PM  

OtherLittleGuy: Depends which one gets to Little Round Top first, and if the Confederate sharpshooters at Devil's Den can pick off Chamberlain.

/also, send drones with napalm against the Union lines before Pickett's Charge


give me two 50 caliber machine guns and two German M42s and the union infantry could go sit in the shade.
 
2012-09-09 06:58:37 PM  

MBrady: simplicimus: Lest we forget, here's Lincoln's speech:
Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation, conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.
Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation, so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.
But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate, we can not consecrate, we can not hallow this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us-that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion-that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain-that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom-and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

Probably the best known Lincoln speech, ironic because of the line: The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here.

Interesting thing is, the speech was given not right after the battle, but 4 months later at the dedication of the national cemetery.

Not too many people know that.


Given that there are lots of people in this country that don't know anything, you might be right. But anybody with more than a mild interest in the war does know that.
 
2012-09-09 06:59:56 PM  

soporific: It'll be Canada, and we'll never see it coming.


They better not cross the border at Windsor because those Detroit thugs will wipe them out.
 
2012-09-09 07:10:06 PM  
Anne Frank?
 
2012-09-09 07:29:32 PM  
Batman. The answer is always Batman.
 
2012-09-09 07:29:59 PM  

Coelacanth: There used to be a hobby shop in Las Vegas where they had enough room for us wargamers to play wargames. The front of the store was taken up by a gaming table which was four plywood sheets on sawhorses laid side to side. Us wargamers played everything from Napoleonics to WWII to Vietnam (very popular because half the crew were Vietnam vets) with miniatures from 15mm to 28mm scale.

But the anniversary of Gettysburg was very special because it was played out in miniature in the store in as close as realtime as possible, with multiple wargamers on both sides playing generals. It was a big deal. History and hobby magazines as far away as Japan used to send reporters to cover the annual event. And my names was on the waiting list to play a general for almost a decade.

But then this Bush economy did in the hobby shop and I never got my chance to play general.


Was that Petersen's?
 
2012-09-09 07:52:01 PM  

parkerlewis: Hawnkee: The Germans?

They're too busy bombing Pearl Harbor


Oh, yeah. I forgot those bastards did that around the same time.
 
2012-09-09 08:53:08 PM  
gettysburg traffic in the summer sucks. thats all i have to say.if you have to be on route 30,34 or 15 and within 5 miles of the town you are friggin screwed. at least it was that way 10-15 years ago. i remember those 2 hotels mentioned in the article. you could be at the traffic light those hotels are at and not move at all because of all the tourist going in and out of that intersection and the hotels and being lost as all hell.
 
2012-09-09 10:46:56 PM  
"A 125th anniversary reenactment, organized by out-of-towners, "fell short when it came to resources, parking, and sanitation," Phiel said.

So, pretty close to the original battle then?
 
2012-09-09 10:50:47 PM  

MBrady: Interesting thing is, the speech was given not right after the battle, but 4 months later at the dedication of the national cemetery.


Even more interesting is that the speech was panned by many American reviewers as an embarrassment, due to it's short length and rough, rail-splitting language - and praised by their British counterparts for it's beauty and economy of words.
The exact same thing happened with his second Inaugural address.
 
2012-09-09 11:02:36 PM  

Red Shirt Blues: [i.ytimg.com image 480x360]
I want to see this guy in July heat huff and puff his way up to Cemetery Ridge.


Unfortunately, the reenactment isn't being held on the original battlefield.
 
2012-09-10 12:29:16 AM  

0Icky0: MBrady: Interesting thing is, the speech was given not right after the battle, but 4 months later at the dedication of the national cemetery.

Even more interesting is that the speech was panned by many American reviewers as an embarrassment, due to it's short length and rough, rail-splitting language - and praised by their British counterparts for it's beauty and economy of words.
The exact same thing happened with his second Inaugural address.


Well, I think the British won that one. I think it's a beautiful speech.
 
2012-09-10 12:29:44 AM  

Hawnkee: The Germans?


Well, the (1860's) Prussians would probably curbstomp both the Union and Confederate armies, assuming the numbers on each side were roughly equal...
 
2012-09-10 12:40:17 AM  

Forbidden Doughnut: Hawnkee: The Germans?

Well, the (1860's) Prussians would probably curbstomp both the Union and Confederate armies, assuming the numbers on each side were roughly equal...


Considering they were busy creating the country of Germany, I'd say they were too busy to get involved.
 
2012-09-10 03:14:56 AM  

Forbidden Doughnut: Well, the (1860's) Prussians would probably curbstomp both the Union and Confederate armies, assuming the numbers on each side were roughly equal...


The Prussian army of 1863 would have had a very hard time against either the Union or Confederate armies, even with roughly equal numbers. The Prussian's equipment was better but their troops were inexperienced and their artillery doctrine was weak. The Prussians' use of cavalry was also archaic at that time.
 
2012-09-10 04:25:55 AM  

red5ish: Forbidden Doughnut: Well, the (1860's) Prussians would probably curbstomp both the Union and Confederate armies, assuming the numbers on each side were roughly equal...

The Prussian army of 1863 would have had a very hard time against either the Union or Confederate armies, even with roughly equal numbers. The Prussian's equipment was better but their troops were inexperienced and their artillery doctrine was weak. The Prussians' use of cavalry was also archaic at that time.


the prussian dreyse needle rifle was accurate to 600 yards. certainly higher rate of fire than the muskets the US used at the time. similarly, they were using first gen breach loading artillery against the french in 1870, to terrific effect. The Prussians beat the french and united Germany because of Krupp artillery in much the same way their grandchildren beat the french in 1940 because of tanks.

Jeb Stuart was probably the finest cavalryman to ever ride so ill grant you that; the civil war because of its huge distances and unbuilt up terrain was a great breeding ground for gifted cavalrymen. The US cav was probably better because it was allowed to be virtually on its own for long periods of time. In the relatively speaking more confined theater of europe's wars of the same time, the cav was tied much more closely to the main army to which it was attached, since the distances were so much smaller.

I think if the civil war armies of the gettysburg period had fought a european army of the same time it wouldve been more of a question of generalship than equipment. I would think the US armies would be disadvantaged against the french or prussian armies, but could compete. The US would be underdogs tho. I would put lee and grant's armies slightly above the Austrians and Russians but beneath the French and Prussians in terms of rankings.

Better cav, yes. Worse arty, worse infantry weapons. Would probably depend on the commander and particulars of the day.
 
2012-09-10 04:30:40 AM  

Forbidden Doughnut: Hawnkee: The Germans?

Well, the (1860's) Prussians would probably curbstomp both the Union and Confederate armies, assuming the numbers on each side were roughly equal...


von Molke was the man, yes. Then again, so was Lee. Longstreet. Sherman. and even Grant in his own sorta brutal blunt Zhukov kinda way.
 
2012-09-10 08:13:05 AM  

AtlanticCoast63: Coelacanth: There used to be a hobby shop in Las Vegas where they had enough room for us wargamers to play wargames. The front of the store was taken up by a gaming table which was four plywood sheets on sawhorses laid side to side. Us wargamers played everything from Napoleonics to WWII to Vietnam (very popular because half the crew were Vietnam vets) with miniatures from 15mm to 28mm scale.

But the anniversary of Gettysburg was very special because it was played out in miniature in the store in as close as realtime as possible, with multiple wargamers on both sides playing generals. It was a big deal. History and hobby magazines as far away as Japan used to send reporters to cover the annual event. And my names was on the waiting list to play a general for almost a decade.

But then this Bush economy did in the hobby shop and I never got my chance to play general.

Was that Petersen's?


Naw, Peterson's was more like a bunker than a store. They had that store on Maryland Parkway near UNLV for forever until they decided to move everything to that one store of theirs in that warzone in North Las Vegas. Eventually they dumped the store and made a bundle doing Ebay sales. Triple J Hobbies was on Sandhill and Flamingo. It was right after Joe bought the place from the original owner Fred Jones (He looked like actor Dennis Franz). It did really well when MtG and Pokemon were all the rage, but then the store suffered from internal problems like Joe's wargaming buddies looting the store whenever he turned his back, Joe dressing like a homeless person, and Joe relocating the store to a strip mail too far off the beaten track for most of his customers to find him.

Of course that last part had a lot to do with a property management company that did it's best to drive off businesses that had been there since Day One so they could bring in businesses that would pay more for rent which weren't there. Because of those idiots, we also lost the largest used bookstore in Las Vegas, the best ever Buddhist vegan restaurant ever, and a good comic book store. The last time I was there, there was a Starbucks and another "Hate the Earth" Christian church.
 
2012-09-10 08:32:20 AM  

theorellior: Civil War reenactments always give me the impression of some really depressing cosplay.


Its much more on par with Pennsic, except that the average Civil War Re-enactor makes the worst
SCA authenticity nazi look like a slacker.

I was there for the 120th anniversary in '93 (Christ, was it THAT long ago?) and it was a helluva lot
of fun.. Especially the night before when the Park service 'accidentally' left the gates open to the park
after sunset to the re-enactors would walk around in costume (they don't allow them to re-enact the
battles in the park for obvious reasons) to commune with the spirit of the place. Wonderfully spooky
to be walking along the Angle and seeing a man in full dress greys just standing there.
 
2012-09-10 10:42:44 AM  

shakespear: Gettysburg, the reason we cant get re-enactors at Vicksburg..


First, I thought Vicksburg really was a months long seige more than anything else. That would make for a boring event.

Second, my most memorable civil war trip was to Vicksburg. I was about 10 years old and our tourguide was a 90 year old woman who spoke about her grandparents' stories from the "war between the states." She repeatedly claimed that they could have held out longer and that, had they done so, the South would have won the war. Being a "displaced Yankee," it was the first time I started to understand that, although some southern heritage is nothing more than thinly-veiled racism, there were others who really just wanted to justify and admire the struggles their families endured during a pointless war.
 
2012-09-10 01:01:52 PM  

Father_Jack: the prussian dreyse needle rifle was accurate to 600 yards. certainly higher rate of fire than the muskets the US used at the time. similarly, they were using first gen breach loading artillery against the french in 1870, to terrific effect. The Prussians beat the french and united Germany because of Krupp artillery in much the same way their grandchildren beat the french in 1940 because of tanks.

Jeb Stuart was probably the finest cavalryman to ever ride so ill grant you that; the civil war because of its huge distances and unbuilt up terrain was a great breeding ground for gifted cavalrymen. The US cav was probably better because it was allowed to be virtually on its own for long periods of time. In the relatively speaking more confined theater of europe's wars of the same time, the cav was tied much more closely to the main army to which it was attached, since the distances were so much smaller.

I think if the civil war armies of the gettysburg period had fought a european army of the same time it wouldve been more of a question of generalship than equipment. I would think the US armies would be disadvantaged against the french or prussian armies, but could compete. The US would be underdogs tho. I would put lee and grant's armies slightly above the Austrians and Russians but beneath the French and Prussians in terms of rankings.

Better cav, yes. Worse arty, worse infantry weapons. Would probably depend on the commander and particulars of the day.


Please note that I specified 1863 not 1870. The Prussian army was reforming their artillery tactics during this decade and I freely admit that they had completed their reforms by 1870. In 1863 the reforms had not been completed. If we are to compare equipment the needle rifles were certainly superior to the muskets used by the US armies. If we are looking at 1870 the US arsenal had not changed much due to the war having ended but the 1866 Springfield was available. I agree that the commanders and the ground would be a big factor. In 1863 I believe Lee's Army of Northern Virginia would have given the Prussians of that time a very difficult battle.
 
2012-09-10 07:40:45 PM  

Father_Jack: Forbidden Doughnut: Hawnkee: The Germans?

Well, the (1860's) Prussians would probably curbstomp both the Union and Confederate armies, assuming the numbers on each side were roughly equal...

von Molke was the man, yes. Then again, so was Lee. Longstreet. Sherman. and even Grant in his own sorta brutal blunt Zhukov kinda way.


Grant deserves credit for realizing that Scott's Anaconda plan was suffocating the rebels, and that all it would take is a good, dedicated assault. Many of the other northern generals seemed obsessed with beating Lee by being more slick. Little did they know, the war was already being won out by the Mississippi, and the Army of Northern Virginia just needed to be ground into hamburger.

At least Lee told the boys to go back home instead of fighting as insurgents for another 20 years.
 
2012-09-11 06:47:14 AM  
This is perhaps the nerdiest conversation I've ever seen on Fark.

So my 2 cents - I'd say the Army of Northern Virginia could out-tactic and out-battle von Moltke circa 1863, and would probably lose the campaign. Well, if von Moltke had 20 years to obsessively plan for every contingency ala the Franco-Prussian debacle.
 
2012-09-11 09:34:02 AM  

pho75: shakespear: Gettysburg, the reason we cant get re-enactors at Vicksburg..

First, I thought Vicksburg really was a months long seige more than anything else. That would make for a boring event.

Second, my most memorable civil war trip was to Vicksburg. I was about 10 years old and our tourguide was a 90 year old woman who spoke about her grandparents' stories from the "war between the states." She repeatedly claimed that they could have held out longer and that, had they done so, the South would have won the war. Being a "displaced Yankee," it was the first time I started to understand that, although some southern heritage is nothing more than thinly-veiled racism, there were others who really just wanted to justify and admire the struggles their families endured during a pointless war.


Actually there was alot of action leading up to the siege including two major assaults
 
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