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(Daily Mail)   Crazy guy warns that the smug organic mob is coming, and if they have their way, you'll never be able to afford a chicken for Sunday lunch ever again. That's right, NEVER   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 112
    More: Interesting, Waitrose, Jamie Oliver, organic movement, Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall, joints, McNuggets, organic products, Marco Pierre White  
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7272 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Sep 2012 at 9:21 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-09 08:29:31 AM
This smug "organic" Mom already feels like she lives in a corporate Orwellian society when the pediatrician closes the door, turns on the water, and says "Please, don't tell anyone I was the one that told you, but only feed your children organic milk and meat. Here's why ... ".

I want organic choices and, while it would be swell if organic options were cheaper, I don't want the standards for the organic label lowered so as to make it easier for Beatrice companies to acquire that label for their products.
 
2012-09-09 09:23:44 AM
George Clooney unavailable for comment..
 
2012-09-09 09:26:21 AM
Target. Entire roasted chickens, kept at serving temperature. $6 per chicken. PER CHICKEN!! I'm in love.
 
2012-09-09 09:28:17 AM

DisregardTheFollowing: Target. Entire roasted chickens, kept at serving temperature. $6 per chicken. PER CHICKEN!! I'm in love.


Sam's Club has the best ones.
 
2012-09-09 09:29:33 AM
The DIly Mail. It's like spending 20 minutes in a mental hospital.
 
2012-09-09 09:34:22 AM
What about Saturday lunch? Will I be able to afford a chicken for Saturday lunch? What about a chicken burrito? Will I be able to afford a chicken burrito?
 
2012-09-09 09:36:54 AM

oukewldave: DisregardTheFollowing: Target. Entire roasted chickens, kept at serving temperature. $6 per chicken. PER CHICKEN!! I'm in love.

Sam's Club has the best ones.


Not to mention the best ribs.

guidesmedia.ign.com
 
2012-09-09 09:37:40 AM

DownDaRiver: Will I be able to afford a chicken burrito?


Not on Sunday.
 
2012-09-09 09:38:39 AM
Next week's headline: "Antibiotics in meats are making people resistant to antibiotics and cause CANCER!"

*Cue the Daily Fail song*
 
2012-09-09 09:40:15 AM

Lunaville: This smug "organic" Mom already feels like she lives in a corporate Orwellian society when the pediatrician closes the door, turns on the water, and says "Please, don't tell anyone I was the one that told you, but only feed your children organic milk and meat. Here's why ... ".

I want organic choices and, while it would be swell if organic options were cheaper, I don't want the standards for the organic label lowered so as to make it easier for Beatrice companies to acquire that label for their products.


You're a nut, and your pediatrician has an investment in an organic place that specializes in taking money from nuts.
 
2012-09-09 09:40:52 AM
Drop some money into a farm co-op. You'll have to deal with bumbles, but it's damned good flesh. Also vegetables, if that's your thing.

/mid 6 figures 4 years ago, food for life
//assuming no zombie apocalypse
/which would be awesome
 
2012-09-09 09:41:31 AM
FTFA "Marco criticises chefs Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall, left and Jamie Oliver, calling them a 'pair of over-seasoned organically-correct pancake tossers''

somuchwin.jpg
 
2012-09-09 09:41:42 AM
narwhaler.com
 
2012-09-09 09:43:01 AM
I dont think it has to do with what's in organic chicken that would make it healthier, but rather what ISN'T in it.
 
2012-09-09 09:48:20 AM
You know, I have no problem with Organic, Mass Produced, Genetically Altered or even "pink slime". My only issue in the US, is LABEL THE FARKING THING! More Specifically label it accurately and stop with all the bullshiat. For all the Conservative Crazies out there screaming about the free market, it seems to me this is a perfect example. If you label something accurately then the consumer can choose what he or she wants to eat and decide if the price is fair or to go with a cheaper (and perhaps unhealthy) alternative
 
2012-09-09 09:53:39 AM

TheSwizz: DownDaRiver: Will I be able to afford a chicken burrito?

Not on Sunday.



Well, I guess I'll just have a balogna sandwich and some chips on Sunday then. And some pie. I like pie.


/mmmm chocolate cream pie
 
2012-09-09 09:55:55 AM

Ummon: You know, I have no problem with Organic, Mass Produced, Genetically Altered or even "pink slime". My only issue in the US, is LABEL THE FARKING THING! More Specifically label it accurately and stop with all the bullshiat. For all the Conservative Crazies out there screaming about the free market, it seems to me this is a perfect example. If you label something accurately then the consumer can choose what he or she wants to eat and decide if the price is fair or to go with a cheaper (and perhaps unhealthy) alternative


Your rational position is dangerous. Please move on to claiming the science is settled and the Stanford people are just deniers or that the whole organic thing is a ruse to get research cash. Otherwise you risk tearing the basic fabric of FARK itself.

/Think of the children.
 
2012-09-09 09:59:16 AM
Nutritional value isn't the only reason people buy organic.
 
2012-09-09 10:00:35 AM
Hey Mainstream, Your double reverse propaganda is not working so well actually.
 
2012-09-09 10:04:03 AM

ghare: Lunaville: This smug "organic" Mom already feels like she lives in a corporate Orwellian society when the pediatrician closes the door, turns on the water, and says "Please, don't tell anyone I was the one that told you, but only feed your children organic milk and meat. Here's why ... ".

I want organic choices and, while it would be swell if organic options were cheaper, I don't want the standards for the organic label lowered so as to make it easier for Beatrice companies to acquire that label for their products.

You're a nut, and your pediatrician has an investment in an organic place that specializes in taking money from nuts.


I was going to go in a little bit different direction and say that either this Lunaville person is making it up or the doctor is loon.  I mean, seriously. Shut the door? Turn on the running water? Is the conventional agriculture hit squad prowling around general practice clinics in an attempt to overhear conversations that could possibly have something to do with food?
 
2012-09-09 10:07:07 AM
Repeat.
http://www.fark.com/comments/7305554/Headline-Organic-food-no-healthi e r-than-non-organic-Second-sentence-But-organic-options-may-live-up-to- their-billing-of-lowering-exposure-to-pesticide-residue-antibiotic-res istant-bacteria
 
2012-09-09 10:09:29 AM
I've heard some organic foods taste better.

The fundamental problem with organic food is that we will never be able to feed the entire planet with organic farming methods.

Factory farms aren't going anywhere, and neither is "non-organic" food. (because we know that not all food is made up of organic materials. ಠ_ಠ )
 
2012-09-09 10:10:52 AM

Lunaville: This smug "organic" Mom already feels like she lives in a corporate Orwellian society when the pediatrician closes the door, turns on the water, and says "Please, don't tell anyone I was the one that told you, but only feed your children organic milk and meat. Here's why ... "


Scary stuff, indeed.

But even that pales in comparison to this corporate coverup.
 
2012-09-09 10:14:02 AM

Louisiana_Sitar_Club: I mean, seriously. Shut the door? Turn on the running water? Is the conventional agriculture hit squad prowling around general practice clinics in an attempt to overhear conversations that could possibly have something to do with food?


Doctor is probably on his last strike before being fired for pushing his lies as science.
 
2012-09-09 10:15:09 AM
But Chik-fil-a is closed on Sunday.
 
2012-09-09 10:17:17 AM

zobear: Nutritional value isn't the only reason people buy organic.


No, but it does seem to be the big push being made by people favoring organic foods these days.
 
2012-09-09 10:18:40 AM
Some of us have always known that the "organic" movement is really a marketing ploy to separate us from more of our money. Many of the foods labeled organic are not organic at all. The USDA has regulations about this, of course, but they are not being enforced. The pesticides used these days are designed to do their job and begin breaking down within hours. Most of the applied pesticides are gone within a week. Very few persistent pesticides are used anymore. The ones currently approved for agricultural use have a very low toxicity and the amount that gets into our food is not trivial.
 
2012-09-09 10:21:38 AM
What if you want four fried chickens? And a Coke?
 
2012-09-09 10:22:49 AM

clevershark: The DIly Mail. It's like spending 20 minutes in a mental hospital.


That's a pleasant coffee break, compared to Fark.
 
2012-09-09 10:27:18 AM
The guy is not crazy, he is right.
 
2012-09-09 10:27:35 AM

zobear: Nutritional value isn't the only reason people buy organic.


One brazillion 'THIS'

Ecologically sound food production HAS to happen. It's even more important than sorting your recycling from your landfill refuse.

/thinks global, eats local.
//also orders local-source for his restaurant - including supporting local allotment growers, who generally fertilize with locally procured manure.
///has own allotment 
////waves paw at zobear
 
2012-09-09 10:31:23 AM

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: clevershark: The DIly Mail. It's like spending 20 minutes in a mental hospital.

That's a pleasant coffee break, compared to Fark.


Hmmm.... what kind of coffee?
 
2012-09-09 10:36:39 AM

uttertosh: Ecologically sound food production HAS to happen. It's even more important than sorting your recycling from your landfill refuse.


You realize that using only organic farming techniques would starve like, half of the entire planet right?
 
2012-09-09 10:38:31 AM

zobear: Nutritional value isn't the only reason people buy organic.


I'm baffled by the repeated articles in an apparently very stupid media that keep crowing about organic food not being "more nutritious" than conventional food. Whoever made that claim? No one that I heard of. I presume they're misundersting the meaning of 'healthier,' and assuming that means 'more nutrition,' but that's not true at all. Organic food is (usually) genetically the same as conventional food, so there's no reason in the world to expect it to contain anything the conventional product would not.

The whole point of organic food isn't what's in it, but what's NOT in it. Consider: You have a plate with two doughnuts, both identical, and one falls off the plate into a pile of broken glass. Is one of them now 'healthier' than the other? If so, is it because the one still on the plate now has more nutrients than the one sitting in a pile of glass?
 
2012-09-09 10:38:41 AM

Lunaville: This smug "organic" Mom already feels like she lives in a corporate Orwellian society when the pediatrician closes the door, turns on the water, and says "Please, don't tell anyone I was the one that told you, but only feed your children organic milk and meat. Here's why ... "


Text message intercepted from said doctor to his brother in law:
"Got another yuppy screwball customer for the organic store. Your welcome."

Find a doctor with better grammar..
 
2012-09-09 10:46:41 AM

Lunaville: This smug "organic" Mom already feels like she lives in a corporate Orwellian society when the pediatrician closes the door, turns on the water, and says "Please, don't tell anyone I was the one that told you, but only feed your children organic milk and meat. Here's why ... ".

I want organic choices and, while it would be swell if organic options were cheaper, I don't want the standards for the organic label lowered so as to make it easier for Beatrice companies to acquire that label for their products.


Your doc's a nutter.
 
2012-09-09 10:47:57 AM

fluffy2097: I've heard some organic foods taste better.


Yes, but not because it's organic. The Soil Association in the UK have rules that you have to go through to get accreditation besides the pesticides thing. So, for instance, animals have to be free range. Which of these two factors do you think makes bacon taste good? Whether Porky has eaten grass which had some pesticides put on it, or whether Porky got proper muscle development?

If you're an excellent, niche producer who doesn't cut corners, you're already ticking most of the boxes for your product meeting the Soil Association standards. For many producers, they'll take the few extra steps to get the accreditation because then they get extra sales to the organic buyers.

I know a bacon producer that produces excellent bacon. It's properly cured from free range pigs. Om nom nom etc. One day, I asked them if they would consider going organic. They told me that they could, if they did one thing - took the pigs off the fields and left it fallow for a time (it's basically a requirement about ensuring the pesticides are gone). Other than that, everything they do meets the standard. They don't put fertiliser on the fields, don't use antibiotics unless the animal is ill, allow the pigs to roam free.

Now, which is better tasting bacon? That one, or the one from the organic farm nearby? I'll tell you, it's the non-organic one.

Another example: a brewery near me went organic. The guy is a craft brewer, doesn't cut corners. Uses only water, barley, hops and yeast. Bought excellent hops and barley because he wanted to make a great product. One day, his barley producer went organic. So, all he then had to do was to find an organic hop supplier and then go through some accreditation steps and he was organic. The thing is, the post-organic beer didn't taste much different to the pre-organic beer.

And finally... a cru classe producer in Bordeaux was asked if he would consider going organic. He asked what that was involved and then told the interviewer that actually, they already did all of that.

In other words, organic tasting good is more of a correlation with the fact that you're buying from high quality producers who then seek out to get the organic mark. You can find crap organics, and the reason is that some industrial producers simply sit down with the rules and work out the bare minimum to pass the standard. Personally, I just buy from individual producers that I know make good products, and most of them aren't organic.
 
2012-09-09 10:49:10 AM

Louisiana_Sitar_Club: I mean, seriously. Shut the door? Turn on the running water? Is the conventional agriculture hit squad prowling around general practice clinics in an attempt to overhear conversations that could possibly have something to do with food?


So! One of those Con-Ag corporate creeps got to you too, huh?

/you better run, egg!
 
2012-09-09 10:49:18 AM

Aqua Buddha: Lunaville: This smug "organic" Mom already feels like she lives in a corporate Orwellian society when the pediatrician closes the door, turns on the water, and says "Please, don't tell anyone I was the one that told you, but only feed your children organic milk and meat. Here's why ... "

Scary stuff, indeed.

But even that pales in comparison to this corporate coverup.


Tell me about it. I was at an agricultural fair yesterday. You'd think if there was one place you could get away from large quantities of dangerous chemicals, it would be at an agricultural fair. Not so. Around noon, a very large quantity of dihydrogen monoxide was released at the very fair I was at. To be fair, the staff did warn us of the impending release, advising us how long it would go on and suggesing ways to minimise exposure. Nevertheless, many of us were exposed anyway. I was exposed to quite a lot of myself, and even those who were not hit by it during the relase had to walk through it after: it was everywhere, all over the ground and exposed objects, so I bet pretty much everyone there was exposed. Many of us exhibited the classic exposure symptoms, especially shivering, but luckily there was very little of the dreaded diminished vision and compromised breathing that can result. Needless to say, I stripped off the exposed clothing when I got home and I'm still mitigating that. NOT fun.
 
2012-09-09 10:52:49 AM

06Wahoo: zobear: Nutritional value isn't the only reason people buy organic.

No, but it does seem to be the big push being made by people favoring organic foods these days.


Who? Where? I've literally NEVER seen that claim made. It makes no scientific sense anyway, so I can't imagine why anyone would say it. Again, are you confusing 'healthier' with 'contains more good stuff'? Organic food does not contain more good stuff; there's no scientific reason why it would that I can think of. It does, however, contain less bad stuff, and less bad stuff is indisputably healthier.
 
2012-09-09 10:57:04 AM
Organic food doesn't taste any better, Fluffy.

Freshness is the only thing that will have any noticeable effect on the flavor of the food. That's why if you have some land you should have your own garden. Nothing tastes better than produce that comes straight from the garden to the dinner table.
 
2012-09-09 10:57:32 AM

uttertosh: Sylvia_Bandersnatch: clevershark: The DIly Mail. It's like spending 20 minutes in a mental hospital.

That's a pleasant coffee break, compared to Fark.

Hmmm.... what kind of coffee?


I confess I have no idea. Though I come from a British family, I admit that I know nothing about British coffee.
 
2012-09-09 10:58:29 AM

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: I'm baffled by the repeated articles in an apparently very stupid media that keep crowing about organic food not being "more nutritious" than conventional food. Whoever made that claim? No one that I heard of.


Actually, the likes of the Soil Association in the UK have done this. http://www.soilassociation.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=30Bk3Sg6Pp0%3 D&tabid=385

"Organic food has:
• Lower levels of contaminants, such as pesticides, antibiotics and nitrates.
• Higher levels of a variety of essential nutrients."

Thing is, there have been studies showing that organic food has higher levels of iron, zinc and potassium. What the lobbiests won't tell you is that the extra iron, zinc and potassium are irrelevant. Your body needs about 5mg of zinc, and no-one in medical circles is worried about zinc deficiency.
 
2012-09-09 11:02:04 AM

JackieRabbit: Some of us have always known that the "organic" movement is really a marketing ploy to separate us from more of our money. Many of the foods labeled organic are not organic at all. The USDA has regulations about this, of course, but they are not being enforced. The pesticides used these days are designed to do their job and begin breaking down within hours. Most of the applied pesticides are gone within a week. Very few persistent pesticides are used anymore. The ones currently approved for agricultural use have a very low toxicity and the amount that gets into our food is not trivial.


Bullsh*t.
 
2012-09-09 11:02:13 AM

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: 06Wahoo: zobear: Nutritional value isn't the only reason people buy organic.

No, but it does seem to be the big push being made by people favoring organic foods these days.

Who? Where? I've literally NEVER seen that claim made. It makes no scientific sense anyway, so I can't imagine why anyone would say it. Again, are you confusing 'healthier' with 'contains more good stuff'? Organic food does not contain more good stuff; there's no scientific reason why it would that I can think of. It does, however, contain less bad stuff, and less bad stuff is indisputably healthier.


Plus taste. For me, eggs are the biggest difference. My parents' chickens are accidentally free-range (they escape the coop but stay on the property and return to lay eggs). They are some of the best eggs I've ever tasted...the yolk is a rich orangey-yellow, the shells are more difficult to break. Not officially organic but damn close to it. The chickens are content to roam around freely and live pretty cushy lives compared to their brethren on factory farms.
 
2012-09-09 11:02:35 AM

Semi-Sane: Organic food doesn't taste any better, Fluffy.

Freshness is the only thing that will have any noticeable effect on the flavor of the food. That's why if you have some land you should have your own garden. Nothing tastes better than produce that comes straight from the garden to the dinner table.


Not true. And believe me, I was as surprised as anyone to discover this. I certainly didn't expect it and wasn't looking for it. But it turns out, at least in my experience, that most organic food DOES taste better. I won't claim to know why, but I'm willing to bet it's because conventional farming methods and chemicals depress or change the flavour of many foods. The food from our own garden tastes good, and it may be in part because we use mostly organic methods, as well as being fresher. I totally agree with you about that, and it logically follows that much organic market food may be fresher on average than most conventional market food, because organic food often doesn't store as long. But I really have noticed a difference and taste, and I don't think it's just because of that.
 
2012-09-09 11:07:28 AM

Portia: Plus taste. For me, eggs are the biggest difference. My parents' chickens are accidentally free-range (they escape the coop but stay on the property and return to lay eggs). They are some of the best eggs I've ever tasted...the yolk is a rich orangey-yellow, the shells are more difficult to break. Not officially organic but damn close to it. The chickens are content to roam around freely and live pretty cushy lives compared to their brethren on factory farms.


That's free-range, not organic. Free-range makes a difference to the taste. I've yet to find that organic does.
 
2012-09-09 11:10:49 AM
I've been trying to follow this organic-food/anti-GMO/anti-pesticide thing for a while, and all I really get from the organic advocates is:

- pesticides are poison, so therefore they're bad.
- Monsanto is evil, so therefore GMO produce is bad.

Not all poisons are poisonous to all living things. Sure, there are nasty pesticides out there, and with any luck in government regulation, we stop using those.

It seems to me that certain types of GMO produce have been in use in places like Europe for a while, where they take a more "No compelling scientific evidence shows it's harmful, so it's OK" approach.

Monsanto is evil. Many other big players in the agricultural industry are also pretty evil. That doesn't make the produce they produce (sorry) itself inherently bad.

As great as it would be to grow only organic produce, growing organically takes more land for less yield, and the world's population is only continuing to grow. There is literally not enough space on earth to grow enough food organically to feed all 7 billion of us. Organic farming is not the way of the future, unless you're highly privileged. We need to pour money into growing as much as possible as efficiently as possible, and making sure it doesn't kill us.

This idea of "organic = healthy and safe" needs to die.
 
2012-09-09 11:14:54 AM
3.bp.blogspot.com

media.silive.com

www.lopezcuttinghorses.com

Food garden, chickens and cattle. It's a lot of work but my family is not beholden to idiots, zealots, catastrophes nor "health science".
 
2012-09-09 11:20:42 AM

oukewldave: DisregardTheFollowing: Target. Entire roasted chickens, kept at serving temperature. $6 per chicken. PER CHICKEN!! I'm in love.

Sam's Club has the best ones.


Yeah, but they're made in China and raised on a steady diet of lead, PCB's, and Spotted Dick.
 
2012-09-09 11:21:36 AM

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: Not true. And believe me, I was as surprised as anyone to discover this. I certainly didn't expect it and wasn't looking for it. But it turns out, at least in my experience, that most organic food DOES taste better.


Organic carrots taste better that the non-organic ones on the shelf because they use different varieties. The organic producers opt for low-yield, high-taste varitiies, while non-organic producers opt for high-yield, low-taste varities. It's basically market segmentation.

Take the same variety, plant in two fields, one with inorganic pesticides and one that's organic, and they'll taste the same.
 
2012-09-09 11:22:35 AM

clevershark: The DIly Mail. It's like spending 20 minutes in a mental hospital.



My eyes were darting around the page so much that I thought they were trying to escape my skull.
Thankfully I closed the browser in time.
 
2012-09-09 11:24:30 AM

zobear: Nutritional value isn't the only reason people buy organic.


ekologhealth.ru
 
2012-09-09 11:25:43 AM
Smug organic mobsters: "Nice processed food hot dog bodega ya got heah. Be a shame if summat was ta happen to it."

adscam.typepad.com
 
2012-09-09 11:29:55 AM

Semi-Sane: Freshness is the only thing that will have any noticeable effect on the flavor of the food. That's why if you have some land you should have your own garden. Nothing tastes better than produce that comes straight from the garden to the dinner table.


It's not about freshness. It's about the genetics of the crops involved.

Factory farmed tomatoes for example, are designed to be able to survive being handled by farm machinery without being damaged. They are also bred to be large, and red and uniformly shaped, as that is what consumers consider "A good tomato" this actually breeds the taste out of them as a side effect (In the case of tomatoes anyways).

A home grown tomato grown "organically" in a garden that hasn't been bred specifically to look good and keep a long time, is going to taste better then a factory farmed tomato. It will also be significantly smaller, it won't keep as long, will be more subject to bruising, and it wont be as uniform.

But it will taste better.

If you have the luxury of being able to grow your own food properly from good genetics, it's going to taste better then factory farmed, monoculture genetics.

Unfortunately, if we want to provide the whole world with tomatoes, we're going to need the factory farmed ones.
 
2012-09-09 11:30:16 AM

fluffy2097: Louisiana_Sitar_Club: I mean, seriously. Shut the door? Turn on the running water? Is the conventional agriculture hit squad prowling around general practice clinics in an attempt to overhear conversations that could possibly have something to do with food?

Doctor is probably on his last strike before being fired for pushing his lies as science.


But pushing Vicodin and Oxycontin is ok, saith the shill.
 
2012-09-09 11:30:44 AM
Please, the smug organic crowd is already here. One tried to tell me not to use the microwave, for that it would take the nutrients from my meat. Whack-a-doodle.
 
2012-09-09 11:31:03 AM

BolshyGreatYarblocks: But pushing Vicodin and Oxycontin is ok, saith the shill.


well yeah, the clinic gets PAID to sell that stuff.
 
2012-09-09 11:32:24 AM

DownDaRiver: TheSwizz: DownDaRiver: Will I be able to afford a chicken burrito?

Not on Sunday.


Well, I guess I'll just have a balogna sandwich and some chips on Sunday then. And some pie. I like pie.


/mmmm chocolate cream pie


Blackberry crisp....
 
2012-09-09 11:32:40 AM

psunbird92: Please, the smug organic crowd is already here. One tried to tell me not to use the microwave, for that it would take the nutrients from my meat. Whack-a-doodle.


Lots of reasons not to cook meat with a microwave. The nutrients being removed is not one of them.
 
2012-09-09 11:42:03 AM

Ummon: You know, I have no problem with Organic, Mass Produced, Genetically Altered or even "pink slime". My only issue in the US, is LABEL THE FARKING THING! More Specifically label it accurately and stop with all the bullshiat. For all the Conservative Crazies out there screaming about the free market, it seems to me this is a perfect example. If you label something accurately then the consumer can choose what he or she wants to eat and decide if the price is fair or to go with a cheaper (and perhaps unhealthy) alternative


Exactly. Clear and complete labeling would solve so many problems and reduce the need for much government intrusiveness.
 
2012-09-09 11:44:16 AM
Confirmation bias, it's a wonderful thing. I eat some organic things in my everyday diet, but all too often the promotion of "organic" borders on the cultish.
 
2012-09-09 11:44:46 AM

Louisiana_Sitar_Club: ghare: Lunaville: This smug "organic" Mom already feels like she lives in a corporate Orwellian society when the pediatrician closes the door, turns on the water, and says "Please, don't tell anyone I was the one that told you, but only feed your children organic milk and meat. Here's why ... ".

I want organic choices and, while it would be swell if organic options were cheaper, I don't want the standards for the organic label lowered so as to make it easier for Beatrice companies to acquire that label for their products.

You're a nut, and your pediatrician has an investment in an organic place that specializes in taking money from nuts.

I was going to go in a little bit different direction and say that either this Lunaville person is making it up or the doctor is loon.  I mean, seriously. Shut the door? Turn on the running water? Is the conventional agriculture hit squad prowling around general practice clinics in an attempt to overhear conversations that could possibly have something to do with food?


Sarcasm directed at what is clearly hyperbole says more about you than the person to which it is directed.
 
2012-09-09 11:48:02 AM

fluffy2097: uttertosh: Ecologically sound food production HAS to happen. It's even more important than sorting your recycling from your landfill refuse.

You realize that using only organic farming techniques would starve like, half of the entire planet right?


But that would help the ecological and AGW movements.

And rid the world of most of those pesky and inferior Brown People.
 
2012-09-09 11:49:10 AM
Plant variety is definitely a factor in the organic vs. inorganic thing. Agrobusiness is concerned with whether the crops will withstand the growing conditions (drought, pests, etc) and withstand the harvesting/transport process. How it tastes to the consumer is all but irrelevant, as long as it doesn't taste actively offensive. That all results in a constant narrowing-down of what varieties the farms will bother to grow. The tomatoes we buy in the store today are pretty different from the tomatoes a farmer might have grown 100 years ago.

Real organic farming allows for a wider variety of choices because the farmer can usually give more regular care and attention to the crops he or she (God dammit, feminism, get out of my head) is growing and is only transporting them locally. The farmer can select varieties with a stronger flavor instead of a stronger outer skin. As others have noted, however, the priority is quality rather than quantity, so this isn't really a very good way to feed the masses.

It's 2012, and in addition to flying cars and sex robots, we were supposed to have widespread hydroponics or vertical farms or something like that by now. Let's get on the stick here, people.
 
2012-09-09 11:49:50 AM

Slowdog: What if you want four fried chickens? And a Coke?


That's going to cost you. And forget about being able to afford dry, white toast.
 
2012-09-09 11:56:13 AM
"If I'm driving down the road and my daughter is tired and hungry, and it's gridlocked, what's wrong with pulling into the forecourt and buying her a box of six chicken McNuggets and a milkshake?"

oh wait...

i1207.photobucket.com

...was she a great big fat person?
 
2012-09-09 11:56:57 AM
TFA completely avoided enviromental reasons to eat organic.

Personally, there are a few things I try to eat organic. Mostly they are meats and dairy, because I'm concerned about hormones and antibiotics in my food. Chemicals on produce just mean I have to wash them before I eat them. GMO isn't a big deal to me.
 
2012-09-09 12:00:59 PM
I'll pay attention to "Organic" when the FDA has a standard for it and various gradations of organic. Right now, it's a marketing term. It's all perception. Smug foodies are smug.
 
2012-09-09 12:04:46 PM
For those of you saying organic food doesn't use pesticides, it actually does, including brimstone, and bacterial toxins http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_farming#Pesticides.

Organic food tastes better for the same reason that a a bottle of wine with a $60 label tastes better than the same wine with a $10 label, you pay more so you expect to get more even if you don't. By thinking 'only other people are fooled by that sort of thing' you are actually making your self more vulnerable.

Also people worried about GMOs have less understanding of genetics than what a high school education would teach, all plants have genes in them, and they don't 'escape' into the people who eat them.
 
2012-09-09 12:19:51 PM

Krieghund: TFA completely avoided enviromental reasons to eat organic.

Personally, there are a few things I try to eat organic. Mostly they are meats and dairy, because I'm concerned about hormones and antibiotics in my food. Chemicals on produce just mean I have to wash them before I eat them. GMO isn't a big deal to me.


I'm a big fan of the sciences--all of them, any of them that have been in front of me over the years--but GMO kind of makes me nervous. Maybe it's a bias on my part, but when I look at our past history with other food goofs, I'm not all that encouraged that we really know what we're doing yet. After it was discovered, people mixed radium into drinks (and added it to all sorts of other things) because it glowed. Artificial sweeteners such as cyclamates and saccharine turned out to be carcinogenic.

Most GMOs are probably completely harmless, but since genetics are massively complex, I have no doubt that we'll end up with a few combos of modified food that seem safe but cause the consumer to give birth to flipper babies or anarchists or something. The GMOs are also developed by corporations (with ever-increasing protection from lawsuits), which I suppose could also account for some of my trust issues.

Not saying I have a better idea, but I'd rather die from plain old sugar or fat than from aspartame or Olestra. I guess I'm just a classicist at heart.
 
2012-09-09 12:21:13 PM

Ummon: You know, I have no problem with Organic, Mass Produced, Genetically Altered or even "pink slime". My only issue in the US, is LABEL THE FARKING THING! More Specifically label it accurately and stop with all the bullshiat. For all the Conservative Crazies out there screaming about the free market, it seems to me this is a perfect example. If you label something accurately then the consumer can choose what he or she wants to eat and decide if the price is fair or to go with a cheaper (and perhaps unhealthy) alternative


Ah, but according to the free marketers, companies should be allowed to label their products any way they want; forcing them to accurately describe their product is unneeded government intervention. If their product is unhealthy, the market will cause them to go out of business, and all it will take is a bunch of people getting sick or dying.
 
2012-09-09 12:24:18 PM

farkeruk: Sylvia_Bandersnatch: Not true. And believe me, I was as surprised as anyone to discover this. I certainly didn't expect it and wasn't looking for it. But it turns out, at least in my experience, that most organic food DOES taste better.

Organic carrots taste better that the non-organic ones on the shelf because they use different varieties. The organic producers opt for low-yield, high-taste varitiies, while non-organic producers opt for high-yield, low-taste varities. It's basically market segmentation.

Take the same variety, plant in two fields, one with inorganic pesticides and one that's organic, and they'll taste the same.


You might be right in that much, but I don't think that explains why organic dairy products and coffee also seem to taste better. You and others making these various unilateral arguments seem to be trying to dimiss the possibility that organic food, by and large, really does taste better *because* it's organic food.
 
2012-09-09 12:32:48 PM

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: fluffy2097: uttertosh: Ecologically sound food production HAS to happen. It's even more important than sorting your recycling from your landfill refuse.

You realize that using only organic farming techniques would starve like, half of the entire planet right?

But that would help the ecological and AGW movements.

And rid the world of most of those pesky and inferior Brown People.


And make the Ayn Randers extremely happy.

/Well, sort of
 
2012-09-09 12:39:52 PM

psunbird92: Please, the smug organic crowd is already here. One tried to tell me not to use the microwave, for that it would take the nutrients from my meat. Whack-a-doodle.


Should've told them to get on their knees and take the nutrients from your meat the old fashioned way.
 
2012-09-09 12:40:23 PM
If you can taste a difference between organic and commercially grown food, congratulations. You have been gifted with a better sense of taste then 95% of the world's population. Stop trying to convince the rest of us, we don't share your gift.

If you eat organic because of worries over how animals are treated, wonderful. Stop pushing your morality on the rest of us, frankly you're more annoying that Jehovah's Witness' and about as religiously fanatic. Seriously, I wait for vegan suicide bombers in McDonald's any day now.

Organically grown food is a form of elitism. Accept it. Stop telling your friends how terrible it is they're not eating organic, you're as boorish as some rich Australian cow telling poor people to work harder.

The end fact remains, you can eat all the magic vegetables you want, you will not live statistically longer than any of the rest of us. Medical breakthroughs have done more to advance long lives than any amount of vegetable worship. Accept that you have made a choice, stop trying to validate that choice by converting others to it. That's not a diet, it's a religion. You are the loony fanatic telling others they'll go to meat hell if they don't accept Organicjesus into their lives.
 
2012-09-09 12:43:45 PM

Tyrone Slothrop:

Ah, but according to the free marketers, companies should be allowed to label their products any way they want; forcing them to accurately describe their product is unneeded government intervention. If their product is unhealthy, the market will cause them to go out of business, and all it will take is a bunch of people getting sick or dying.


There is no reason to label food as GMOs with out evidence the GMOs are dangerous, I would compare it to labeling apples that were picked by black people, or pepper that was ground by a woman, it has no effect on the food quality and the only people who would change their buying habits would be those who are ignorant about the effects.

People have a belief that farming has become "unnatural" but it has never been natural since it began 10 000 years ago. I am a geneticist, (I work with human cancer) but I will tell you what happens when a plant is genetically modified, a gene is a chain of DNA molecules that gives a cell instructions how to create a single protein, (all proteins are digested by intestinal enzymes) "Golden Rice" has two such genes inserted into the genome, called phytoene synthase and ctrl, (from a flower and bacteria respectively) together these genes make enzymes which produce vitamin A (through a very well understood pathway). The belief that these genes could get into a human genome is as absurd as the belief that any naturally occurring plant gene could get into a human.
 
2012-09-09 01:17:33 PM

big mac with cheese: The belief that these genes could get into a human genome is as absurd as the belief that any naturally occurring plant gene could get into a human.


The belief that the hundreds of years of selective breeding we've done with our food doesn't genetically modify the food is pretty laughable too.
 
2012-09-09 01:21:37 PM
In fairness to the true believers in GMO, there is no conclusive proof that the genetic mutations present here were caused by gene engineering or were instead the herbicide that Round-Up Ready GMO crops drink up and concentrate, ready to be absorbed by whatever eats it. Too bad there's no legal way to do a study like this in the States because if anybody tries Monsanto will sue the living shiat out of them.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeffrey-smith/genetically-modified-soy_ b _544575.html
 
2012-09-09 01:26:26 PM
Genetic Roulette Movie Trailer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vv96D_ZURzs&feature=player_embedded#!
 
2012-09-09 01:27:33 PM

fluffy2097: big mac with cheese: The belief that these genes could get into a human genome is as absurd as the belief that any naturally occurring plant gene could get into a human.

The belief that the hundreds of years of selective breeding we've done with our food doesn't genetically modify the food is pretty laughable too.


Both amazing straw-men arguments. Really, you should be proud.
 
NFA [TotalFark]
2012-09-09 01:35:33 PM
You can always tell a conservatively fabricated issue because they can't resist name calling and love the word SMUG.

Prius drivers- SMUG
Chevy Volt Drivers - SMUG
Vegans - SMUG
People who watch CNN - SMUG
Organic Food Consumers - SMUG
People who promote wind power - SMUG
Liberals in general - SMUG
Anyone who disagrees with Republitards - SMUG

See the pattern?
 
2012-09-09 01:48:40 PM
Pfff. Chicks are dirt cheap and happy to eat kitchen scraps. Organic chickens (and eggs) are practically free once you put together some basic amenities for them.

sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net

sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net

sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2012-09-09 01:55:11 PM

farkeruk: Portia: Plus taste. For me, eggs are the biggest difference. My parents' chickens are accidentally free-range (they escape the coop but stay on the property and return to lay eggs). They are some of the best eggs I've ever tasted...the yolk is a rich orangey-yellow, the shells are more difficult to break. Not officially organic but damn close to it. The chickens are content to roam around freely and live pretty cushy lives compared to their brethren on factory farms.

That's free-range, not organic. Free-range makes a difference to the taste. I've yet to find that organic does.

Yup. Free-range eggs are awesome. I'm sorry I ever tried them, because it makes it hard to go back to "regular" eggs. It's not a subtle difference, is it? It's obvious as hell.

The only "organic" food I've found that tastes different is milk. Regular milk is like chalky water in comparison. Sometimes I wonder if they're just lying about the fat content in the organic version...

With fruits and what not, I can't find any difference, except that oddly enough often the "organic" tastes worse. So it's free-range eggs and organic milk for me and I'm happy.

 
2012-09-09 01:57:18 PM

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: You might be right in that much, but I don't think that explains why organic dairy products and coffee also seem to taste better. You and others making these various unilateral arguments seem to be trying to dimiss the possibility that organic food, by and large, really does taste better *because* it's organic food.


Blind tasting of milk shows such little difference (56%) that you could put it down to statistical anomaly.

Coffee? When you're buying organic coffee, you're buying premium coffee. Coffee has quite widely varying prices depending upon where it's grown, how it's processed, how it's decaffeinated and so forth. No-one does organic coffee on the cheap because the organic buying segment isn't the most price-conscious segment. I used to buy serious gourmet coffee online and tried organic in there and it was no better. Go and buy some organic and non-organic filter coffees for a similar price and get someone to prepare a blind taste of them and you won't tell much difference.
 
2012-09-09 01:58:16 PM

Ummon: For all the Conservative Crazies out there screaming about the free market, it seems to me this is a perfect example. If you label something accurately then the consumer can choose what he or she wants to eat and decide if the price is fair or to go with a cheaper (and perhaps unhealthy) alternative


Companies shouldn't be told by government how to produce and label their foods. They should be able to produce anything they want and label it however they want and let the markets decide. If consumers don't want chemically produced antibiotic-fed diseased cyst-ridden chicken, they will insist on inspecting the factory and doing their own chemical analysis before they buy, so they can make their own self-informed choices. The Invisible Hand of the Free Market is Infallible.
 
2012-09-09 01:59:31 PM

CluelessMoron: The only "organic" food I've found that tastes different is milk. Regular milk is like chalky water in comparison. Sometimes I wonder if they're just lying about the fat content in the organic version...


The other things can be that organic milk in some parts of the world is only UHT which can give a sweeter taste. Which might mean it's worth buying, but again, this isn't about the pesticides.
 
2012-09-09 02:12:02 PM

NFA: See the pattern?


At least you've found a way to feel better then all of them.
 
2012-09-09 02:20:59 PM

Spartan_Manhandler: Ummon: For all the Conservative Crazies out there screaming about the free market, it seems to me this is a perfect example. If you label something accurately then the consumer can choose what he or she wants to eat and decide if the price is fair or to go with a cheaper (and perhaps unhealthy) alternative

Companies shouldn't be told by government how to produce and label their foods. They should be able to produce anything they want and label it however they want and let the markets decide. If consumers don't want chemically produced antibiotic-fed diseased cyst-ridden chicken, they will insist on inspecting the factory and doing their own chemical analysis before they buy, so they can make their own self-informed choices. The Invisible Hand of the Free Market is Infallible.


The invisible hand theory has been dead for a long time. Deception trumps the invisible hand. Companies really don't want to tell you what is in the food, and if they can just shut their door and say "no thanks, this is private property" they will.

Certain organic foods I've bought definitely tasted better than the standard foods. Fruits especially. Others I really didn't notice a difference---milk tasted pretty much exactly the same as milk in either case. But I don't buy food because it says "organic." It just so happens that foods with the ingredients I want often come with a label stating that the food is "organic." Check the ingredients and the food's source---these are the most important things, not some artificial label that isn't even held to standard.
 
2012-09-09 02:32:49 PM
There are flocks of mostly wild guineas in the woods across the road... and I've got an acre of unused space with shade and lots of bugs... I'm pretty sure I could have a chicken or chicken like creature for dinner on a fairly regular basis...
 
2012-09-09 02:56:10 PM
Regardless of nutritional content they did say the organics had less junk (non organic still had "safe" levels). They also left out that at least around here the organic chickens (ESP air dryed) TASTE better than the non organic.
 
2012-09-09 03:00:55 PM

phamwaa: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: fluffy2097: uttertosh: Ecologically sound food production HAS to happen. It's even more important than sorting your recycling from your landfill refuse.

You realize that using only organic farming techniques would starve like, half of the entire planet right?

But that would help the ecological and AGW movements.

And rid the world of most of those pesky and inferior Brown People.

And make the Ayn Randers extremely happy.

/Well, sort of


That's stupid.
 
2012-09-09 03:26:24 PM
There was a President, who, during his election campaign, promised a chicken for every pot.

He came through. As a kid, my folks would buy roasting chickens for a couple of bucks and my Mom had assorted tasty recipes for stuffing and gravy. Now, I go and look at roasting chickens in the grocery store and am surprised they don't offer loan options to buy one.

If it's organic, then you need to mortgage your house.

I walked into Whole Foods once -- and shortly after, walked right back out, stunned by the prices.

There is a simple rule of thumb you can't ignore: when you develop a massive population you need to produce a massive amount of affordable food.

Some things sneered at today, like foods made from scraps of produce or waste cuts, are actually a great boon, because that stuff used to be thrown out, sold to feed manufacturers or fertilizer companies, yet it is still good, nutritious food. Its arrival on the shelves helps keep food prices down.

However, you need to keep an eye on the manufacturers, who will dump in a ton of fillers to cheapen the product for more profit. Which is why the Truth in Advertising laws were created.
We 'recycle' millions of tons of food previously considered waste products, yearly. Today's grocery store shelves are usually stocked with inexpensive meat patties, sausages and 'artificial' fish that are cheap, tasty and nourishing.

Developing sausages ages ago was a way to use up waste meat and preserve it when your lives depended on every bit of the animal you killed. Back when you worked your butt off just to survive and burned off the cholesterol loaded fat packed in those sausages. You needed the calories.

Decades ago, pushing pasteurized milk with vitamin D added all but ended the childhood plague of rickets. Plus, the government made it cheap enough for everyone to afford.

Remember also, that the distribution of food across a big nation requires changes to get it to the shelves unspoiled. Like picking green tomatoes and gas ripening them so they will not go rotten in the store shortly after arrival. Using assorted pesticides to not loose a quarter of your crop, which would push the prices up and using various fertilizers to grow more on less land or on poor land.

There are entire businesses which do nothing but make special feeds to produce bigger, healthier, nutritious food animals faster to meet the demand. That beef you buy today is NOT like the beef sold in Cowboy times, which usually, through trail drives and grass grazing, weighed nothing like the cows of today. They tended to be very lean and tough.

We farm a lot of 'wild food' now, simply because people have decimated the stocks through over fishing or over hunting and over development. Those commercial fishing boats go after certain fish in season -- but the nets have no way to determine what is in season or not. Tons of valuable, out of season fish are usually culled from the nets and dumped overboard, most already dead, but the fishermen would be heavily fined if they brought them in
with their catch.

So many factors must be considered when judging the quality of food. Human population is the biggest to consider. They need to eat and they need to be able to afford the food.
 
2012-09-09 03:35:28 PM

uttertosh: ////waves paw at zobear


Cheers uttertosh.

: ]
 
2012-09-09 03:45:13 PM

farkeruk: Sylvia_Bandersnatch: You might be right in that much, but I don't think that explains why organic dairy products and coffee also seem to taste better. You and others making these various unilateral arguments seem to be trying to dimiss the possibility that organic food, by and large, really does taste better *because* it's organic food.

Blind tasting of milk shows such little difference (56%) that you could put it down to statistical anomaly.

Coffee? When you're buying organic coffee, you're buying premium coffee. Coffee has quite widely varying prices depending upon where it's grown, how it's processed, how it's decaffeinated and so forth. No-one does organic coffee on the cheap because the organic buying segment isn't the most price-conscious segment. I used to buy serious gourmet coffee online and tried organic in there and it was no better. Go and buy some organic and non-organic filter coffees for a similar price and get someone to prepare a blind taste of them and you won't tell much difference.


The difference in coffee is incredible. I won't drink commercially processed coffee because it tastes like sh*t and gives me a headache.

/gri nder, french press
 
2012-09-09 03:59:43 PM

fluffy2097: uttertosh: Ecologically sound food production HAS to happen. It's even more important than sorting your recycling from your landfill refuse.

You realize that using only organic farming techniques would starve like, half of the entire planet right?


Nuh-Huh!
 
2012-09-09 04:11:34 PM
More stupid reductionist anti-green propaganda brought to you by your favourite source of pseudo-scientific BS, the Daily Mule.

I seldom buy organic. The excepion is bananas, which are grown with a horrendous amount of pesticide (although it doesn't get past the skin, it gets into the environment) and tomatoes which are another food that is grown under grotesque artificial circumstances--not only massive amounts of pesticides but fossil water pumped into desert sand, artificial ripening and breeding out of flavour).

Most organic food is not worth the extra cost to me or other people who are not rich and foolish.

However, every one of these BS stories ignores the real points.

True, organic food does not have more nutritional value from being organic. It gets any nutritional surplus it has from being fresh. Time is the critical limiting factor in the nutritional value and flavour of vegetables, fruit and many other foods. Organic food produced by a corporation in Brazil or Chile or Morocco and flown to you, only to sit in a warehouse, truck or store for weeks is not healthier than agro-indusrial product. But organic food purchased straight from the farmer who picked it the morning of sale is a lot better for you than industrial product because it is fresh.

From there on, the lies come fast and thick, or rather, the lies by omission.

Organic food is better in many ways.

It is not devoid of pesticides, antibiotics, etc, because even fresh water flowing into the Arctic Ocean is no devoid of pollution, but it has much less.

Growing food with fewer antibiotics and pesticides helps prevent immunity developing in pests and microbes, and from being carried to wild species (weeds) and other potential pests by microbes.

Growing food organically can be polluting (more waste at farm level, manure, etc.) but the amount of waste that happens between field or orchard and the consumer's waste bin is immense in any case and organic farming is unlikely to contribute much to the total, even if the bean counters (ha! ha!) can juggle the numbers to show that it is better, worse or the same as industrial product or regular farm produce.

I expect that the organic consumer is deluded when they think it tastes better--you can "prove" this by the kind of BS that the "skeptical" TV show "Bullshiat!" did in a farmer's market, but, of course, that ignores the question of freshness, varieties grown, natural versus forced growth, watering whether natural or mechanical, and a thousand other variables that mean that at least some organic food really is healthier, safer, cleaner, tastier, etc.

This is reductionist bullshiat at its bullest and shiatiest. I've watched all eight seasons of BS! and find ha they produce as much as they destroy. Some of their episodes are nothing but "libertarian" propaganda, "rationalist" pseudo-rationalism, and crap. Some are great. Of course, every crank would say the same about any debunker who debunks crap they don't believe in and crap they do, but I think my BS-detector is strong enough to recognize BS produced by "Our Side" (if there is one) as well as "Their Side" (there are always dozens of those).

In short, the choice to consume organic or not depends on a large number of variables and trade-offs, and the consumer is ill-equipped to make them because of the vast number of claims and products between which she must choose, but organic farming is NOT a write-off and industrial farming is not a panacea or a world-saver. It's all about choices and the choices have to be made separately for each product or permutation and combination of products.

I do no doubt that some meat, eggs, milk, cheese, etc., in the diet is green but it depends on so many variables I can not say which piece of meat, which eggs, or which dairy farmer is the right one.

Poor people have to stick to what they can afford. The rest of us, who spend more than we need to or should on food but only a very small percentage of our household budget, get to make impossible choices on faulty and limited information while being barraged with BS from all quarters. Lucky us. Thank God I am not rich and do not have even more choices.

My advice: eat better, look out for signs of scamming, and vary your food sources so you are not getting too much from one food or one source. Even if they are all larded (literally or not) with poisons, you can keep the dose of any particular poison down with a varied and generally healthy diet of less-processed, less-travelled, less-stored, and less-manipulated food stuffs.

Many fruits and vegetables have their own inherant risks. Brazil nuts are radioactive because they contain a lot of healthy Potassium, some of which is radioactive naturally. Don't pig out on pig toes. Bananas are likewise full of Potassium and thus radioactive. Don't go bananas with the 'naners.

Eat a variety, wash carefully, cook carefully, and learn as much as you can about where you food comes from and how. You're lucky if it has a country of origin label or a corporate logo let alone real useful information connected to it, but with the web, a massive amount of information could be cheaply gathered and disseminated if the government wasn't owned by the corporations or the consumer rose in sufficient numbers to demand the government step away from its chums with brief cases full of shiney expensive propaganda and tainted cash.

READING THE DAILY MAIL EXCEEDS YOUR DAILY MAXIMUM DAILY LIMIT DOSAGE OF BULL-SHIAT! MAKE RESPONSIBLE AND HEALTHIER CHOICES!
 
2012-09-09 05:34:44 PM

brantgoose: I've watched all eight seasons of BS!


For all of you who didn't want to read all that text. This guy knows what he's talking about because he's seen a TV show featuring 2 people who make a living deceiving people.
 
2012-09-09 05:36:05 PM

uttertosh: fluffy2097: uttertosh: Ecologically sound food production HAS to happen. It's even more important than sorting your recycling from your landfill refuse.

You realize that using only organic farming techniques would starve like, half of the entire planet right?

Nuh-Huh!


Your link contains a web page that says "Sorry, there has been an error."
 
2012-09-09 09:26:29 PM

Ruiizu: Spartan_Manhandler: Ummon: For all the Conservative Crazies out there screaming about the free market, it seems to me this is a perfect example. If you label something accurately then the consumer can choose what he or she wants to eat and decide if the price is fair or to go with a cheaper (and perhaps unhealthy) alternative

Companies shouldn't be told by government how to produce and label their foods. They should be able to produce anything they want and label it however they want and let the markets decide. If consumers don't want chemically produced antibiotic-fed diseased cyst-ridden chicken, they will insist on inspecting the factory and doing their own chemical analysis before they buy, so they can make their own self-informed choices. The Invisible Hand of the Free Market is Infallible.

The invisible hand theory has been dead for a long time. Deception trumps the invisible hand. Companies really don't want to tell you what is in the food, and if they can just shut their door and say "no thanks, this is private property" they will.

Certain organic foods I've bought definitely tasted better than the standard foods. Fruits especially. Others I really didn't notice a difference---milk tasted pretty much exactly the same as milk in either case. But I don't buy food because it says "organic." It just so happens that foods with the ingredients I want often come with a label stating that the food is "organic." Check the ingredients and the food's source---these are the most important things, not some artificial label that isn't even held to standard.


I used to buy organic milk not because it tasted better, but because the local supermarkets providing it ultra-pasteurized it. So instead of surviving 12 days in the fridge, it survived 20-30 days.
 
2012-09-09 10:16:04 PM
Organic as a label is BS. The FDA has the term so effing regulated that almost no small farmer can afford to get it, only massive factory farms. Guess what they do? They spray their "organic potatoes" with a cyanide solution so deadly that they can't have human beings in the field for 2+ weeks after it is used or it could kill them. Mmmm, yum yum, just what I want to put in my body.

And that's what a lot of us who eat organic really have a problem with. We don't want chemicals in our foods - "well within acceptable limits?" Really? WTF ever happened to cyanide free potatoes. And more importantly, those chemicals build up in the soil. I grew up in farmland (terraced higher up on the side of a hill where we lived). You know what happens to those pesticides? They eventually soak into the soil. Then when it rains, the water takes them down into the water table. There are areas where I grew up where we simply couldn't drink water anymore, it could hurt you.

If you want to destroy the environment, go for it, but stop wrecking the world for everyone else in the process.
 
2012-09-09 11:47:23 PM
So how does this affect my beef flavored ramen noodles?
 
2012-09-09 11:50:06 PM

Ruiizu: The invisible hand theory has been dead for a long time. Deception trumps the invisible hand. Companies really don't want to tell you what is in the food, and if they can just shut their door and say "no thanks, this is private property" they will.


Agreed 100%. I should have put a "/snark" slashy on it.
 
2012-09-10 12:51:58 AM
Am I the only cynic that believes most all "organic" food really isn't? Especially if any part of it comes from outside the US.
 
2012-09-10 01:12:39 AM
Isn't all life organic? Am I missing something?
 
2012-09-10 09:11:53 AM
Lunaville SmartestFunniest 2012-09-09 08:29:31 AM


This smug "organic" Mom already feels like she lives in a corporate Orwellian society




Thanks for lending credence to to "crazy guy"
 
2012-09-10 11:56:35 AM
It's amazing how many people get so very defensive about organics. It's quite simple. If you don't want to buy organics, then don't. But why do you have to tell those of us who do that we are wrong, crazy, stupid, etc?

I like to imagine that my vegetables have not been soaked in substances similar to those used in chemical warfare, and that my meat was not tortured in a high-density feed lot. I'm willing to pay extra for this, and in so doing supporting many suppliers of this niche market.

I'm not trying to force YOU to do the same. Make your own choices and let me do the same.

/This "organics not any more nutritious" thing is a classic straw man argument.
 
2012-09-10 12:39:21 PM

JustTheTip: It's amazing how many people get so very defensive about organics. It's quite simple. If you don't want to buy organics, then don't. But why do you have to tell those of us who do that we are wrong, crazy, stupid, etc?

I like to imagine that my vegetables have not been soaked in substances similar to those used in chemical warfare, and that my meat was not tortured in a high-density feed lot. I'm willing to pay extra for this, and in so doing supporting many suppliers of this niche market.

I'm not trying to force YOU to do the same. Make your own choices and let me do the same.

/This "organics not any more nutritious" thing is a classic straw man argument.


Because you are wrong crazy and stupid about your reasoning for eating organic.

Waste your money all you like but like or it not, Agent Orange is not being sprayed on your Oranges.
 
2012-09-10 04:46:28 PM

Lunaville: This smug "organic" Mom already feels like she lives in a corporate Orwellian society when the pediatrician closes the door, turns on the water, and says "Please, don't tell anyone I was the one that told you, but only feed your children organic milk and meat. Here's why ... ".

I want organic choices and, while it would be swell if organic options were cheaper, I don't want the standards for the organic label lowered so as to make it easier for Beatrice companies to acquire that label for their products.


Tin-foil hats, not just for teabaggers any more.

/proly a troll.
 
2012-09-10 06:03:31 PM

farkeruk: In other words, organic tasting good is more of a correlation with the fact that you're buying from high quality producers who then seek out to get the organic mark. You can find crap organics, and the reason is that some industrial producers simply sit down with the rules and work out the bare minimum to pass the standard. Personally, I just buy from individual producers that I know make good products, and most of them aren't organic.


I've discovered much the same thing. I'd much rather hear word-of-mouth recommendations than see organic stamps.

Now, can we please stop all this and work on making a cow that likes being eaten? "Now that I have your orders, I'll just nip off and kill myself. Don't worry sir, I'll be humane."
 
2012-09-10 06:40:27 PM

Slowdog: What if you want four fried chickens? And a Coke?


That just means you're awesome.

///could eat 4 fried chickens and a coke. Might need a few hours....might need more than one coke.
 
2012-09-10 07:31:17 PM

austerity101: I've been trying to follow this organic-food/anti-GMO/anti-pesticide thing for a while, and all I really get from the organic advocates is:

- pesticides are poison, so therefore they're bad.
- Monsanto is evil, so therefore GMO produce is bad.

Not all poisons are poisonous to all living things. Sure, there are nasty pesticides out there, and with any luck in government regulation, we stop using those.

It seems to me that certain types of GMO produce have been in use in places like Europe for a while, where they take a more "No compelling scientific evidence shows it's harmful, so it's OK" approach.

Monsanto is evil. Many other big players in the agricultural industry are also pretty evil. That doesn't make the produce they produce (sorry) itself inherently bad.

As great as it would be to grow only organic produce, growing organically takes more land for less yield, and the world's population is only continuing to grow. There is literally not enough space on earth to grow enough food organically to feed all 7 billion of us. Organic farming is not the way of the future, unless you're highly privileged. We need to pour money into growing as much as possible as efficiently as possible, and making sure it doesn't kill us.

This idea of "organic = healthy and safe" needs to die.


Besides, the pesticides weaken the sperm, so overpopulation will solve itself.
 
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